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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Tick on July 02, 2010, 09:35:38 AM
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Having been a vocalist for 25 years, I was surprised and impressed with Mikes vocal work on the recent Transatlantic album. I never thought he was a bad vocalist, but his vocal tone and control of his voice on that record was really good. Does anyone think Mike might ever sing a track on a Dream Theater album?
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No.
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Only backing vocals and the lame-o cookie monster vocals they will inevitably include on future albums. Otherwise, no.
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I've personally always kind of hoped he would. But I don't want him to pull a song that's suited for JLB, I want him to sing on a song that fits his style and range.
I always like when bands do this, such as Queen (as long as the vocalists are good)
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I've personally always kind of hoped he would. But I don't want him to pull a song that's suited for JLB, I want him to sing on a song that fits his style and range.
I always like when bands do this, such as Queen (as long as the vocalists are good)
It definitely would have to be a song written for his voice and range, but I think it could be interesting.
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Having been a vocalist for 25 years, I was surprised and impressed with Mikes vocal work on the recent Transatlantic album. I never thought he was a bad vocalist, but his vocal tone and control of his voice on that record was really good. Does anyone think Mike might ever sing a track on a Dream Theater album?
God, I hope not.
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The Best Of Times demo.
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Having been a vocalist for 25 years, I was surprised and impressed with Mikes vocal work on the recent Transatlantic album.
His vocals are good outside of DT, but TA and DT write different music, especially when it comes to vocals.
I always like when bands do this, such as Queen (as long as the vocalists are good)
It worked well for Queen not just because they were all top notch singers, but because they did not have a distinct vocal sound. They had a distinct vocal style but that was because of their melodies. DT has a unique, distinct vocal sound in James, and to deviate from that would be a significant deviation from their overall sound. Same thing with a band like The Beatles. Songs song by John sound different than those sung by Paul, but they all sound like Beatles songs. Any DT song bot sung by James wouldn't sound like a DT song.
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I also was impressed by his vocals on The Whirlwind (the song itself; the Salty Dog cover is mostly good, but there are a few spots where Mike really sounds strained). I would love to hear more from Mike vocally, but in a side project. I think his present level of contribution on vocals for DT sound just about perfect. I don't necessarily want less, but I don't think I want more either.
Only backing vocals and the lame-o cookie monster vocals they will inevitably include on future albums. Otherwise, no.
They are not cookie monster vocals. ::) Don't make me issue the smack down.
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Do you think Mike will ever use those KrotchRaut stickers?
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I like what he does on "Set us free" It'd be nice if he would do something like that with DT, we've seen more of he's deeper voice in DT.
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Only backing vocals and the lame-o cookie monster vocals they will inevitably include on future albums. Otherwise, no.
They are not cookie monster vocals. ::) Don't make me issue the smack down.
The ones on ANtR may not be, but I guarantee that there WILL be cookie monster vocals on future albums, which is exactly what I said in my post above. No reference was made to BCaSL in my post. Don't make me smack you! :-*
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I'd guess not, I think any serious vocal contributions from MP will be on non-DT releases, or maybe if DT released a bunch of covers with another album like they did with BC&SL. I don't think he'll ever be the featured vocalist on a Dream Theater original though
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I enjoy his vocals on salty dog and the demo and background, but prob not on a studio album since it would take away from JLB
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I also was impressed by his vocals on The Whirlwind (the song itself; the Salty Dog cover is mostly good, but there are a few spots where Mike really sounds strained). I would love to hear more from Mike vocally, but in a side project. I think his present level of contribution on vocals for DT sound just about perfect. I don't necessarily want less, but I don't think I want more either.
Only backing vocals and the lame-o cookie monster vocals they will inevitably include on future albums. Otherwise, no.
They are not cookie monster vocals. ::) Don't make me issue the smack down.
There's nothing wrong with cookie monster vocals. Granted, its not a style that appeals to everyone, but when used correctly it works.
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I hope to God we never have Portnoy singing lead vocals on a DT song ever. Or singing by himself a la ANTR ever again. Call-and-response like in The Mirror, The Glass Prison, and The Shattered Fortress works well.
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But I like what he does on "Set us free too" :(
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There's nothing wrong with cookie monster vocals. Granted, its not a style that appeals to everyone, but when used correctly it works.
There IS something wrong with cookie monster vocals for people who hate them, like me. Doesn't matter if they are "used correctly" - they aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
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Sure, but some of us hate Jordan Rudess solos that sound like he is trying to bend every note into submission, but we have to endure them, nonetheless, just like those of you who dislike growls will have to endure those, should they ever use them. I am not a big fan of growls either, but I am just saying. ;)
Frankly, I would take a short section or two of growling on a DT album (if done by someone who can actually growl well, like Akerfeldt) over those Rudess solos.
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There's nothing wrong with cookie monster vocals. Granted, its not a style that appeals to everyone, but when used correctly it works.
There IS something wrong with cookie monster vocals for people who hate them, like me. Doesn't matter if they are "used correctly" - they aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
I can just as easily say there's something wrong with extremely high-pitched singers for those who hate them. They aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
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I can just as easily say there's something wrong with extremely high-pitched singers for those who hate them. They aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
Except that DT has been using this vocal style for 10 albums (well, 9.. sorry Charlie). If people hated that style, they wouldn't be fans of the music in the first place, which is different from incorporating totally different and conflicting vocal styles 25 years in to your career.
But I will agree that a certain type of vocal style is never necessary as it is a function of the style the individual artist/band is striving for.
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There's nothing wrong with cookie monster vocals. Granted, its not a style that appeals to everyone, but when used correctly it works.
There IS something wrong with cookie monster vocals for people who hate them, like me. Doesn't matter if they are "used correctly" - they aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
This. Now check your PM's, n00blet.
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There's nothing wrong with cookie monster vocals. Granted, its not a style that appeals to everyone, but when used correctly it works.
There IS something wrong with cookie monster vocals for people who hate them, like me. Doesn't matter if they are "used correctly" - they aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
Especially when that emotion and vibe is "everything worked out for everyone".
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I can just as easily say there's something wrong with extremely high-pitched singers for those who hate them. They aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
Except that DT has been using this vocal style for 10 albums (well, 9.. sorry Charlie). If people hated that style, they wouldn't be fans of the music in the first place, which is different from incorporating totally different and conflicting vocal styles 25 years in to your career.
But I will agree that a certain type of vocal style is never necessary as it is a function of the style the individual artist/band is striving for.
That's the point I was trying to get across, albeit in a somewhat sarcastic fashion :|
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Except that DT has been using this vocal style for 10 albums (well, 9.. sorry Charlie). If people hated that style, they wouldn't be fans of the music in the first place, which is different from incorporating totally different and conflicting vocal styles 25 years in to your career.
Exactly. :tup
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Sure, but some of us hate Jordan Rudess solos that sound like he is trying to bend every note into submission, but we have to endure them, nonetheless, just like those of you who dislike growls will have to endure those, should they ever use them. I am not a big fan of growls either, but I am just saying. ;)
Frankly, I would take a short section or two of growling on a DT album (if done by someone who can actually growl well, like Akerfeldt) over those Rudess solos.
I can't still fully digest the awesomeness that was Akerfeldt growling ANTR in Wembley.
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Sure, but some of us hate Jordan Rudess solos that sound like he is trying to bend every note into submission, but we have to endure them, nonetheless, just like those of you who dislike growls will have to endure those, should they ever use them. I am not a big fan of growls either, but I am just saying. ;)
Frankly, I would take a short section or two of growling on a DT album (if done by someone who can actually growl well, like Akerfeldt) over those Rudess solos.
I can't still fully digest the awesomeness that was Akerfeldt growling ANTR in Wembley.
I'd like to hear Rudess or Pete Trewavas growl
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There's nothing wrong with cookie monster vocals. Granted, its not a style that appeals to everyone, but when used correctly it works.
There IS something wrong with cookie monster vocals for people who hate them, like me. Doesn't matter if they are "used correctly" - they aren't necessary to get a certain emotion or vibe across.
+1. I also think that in the future they will make songs/albums sound dated like triggered drums sound so 80's these days....
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Except that DT has been using this vocal style for 10 albums (well, 9.. sorry Charlie). If people hated that style, they wouldn't be fans of the music in the first place, which is different from incorporating totally different and conflicting vocal styles 25 years in to your career.
Exactly. :tup
I'm not much into cookie monster vocals myself, and actually find them properly offputting at times...
But if I'm honest, I see "it's worked for 25 years" as more of an indictment than a vote of confidence. I don't think they should rest on their laurels and stick at one style. I like that they're gradually morphing. I don't think anything should be taken as read - I'd like 'em to meddle and fiddle and surprise me as much as possible. Bring on the gruff.
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You know, I'd much rather hear JP vocals. MP sings very nasally, whereas JP has a sonorous voice.
rumborak
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Agreed. JP has a really lush, warm voice.
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Agreed. JP has a really lush, warm voice.
I can dig it.
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Seriously, JLB + JP could do an awesome vocal-only track.
rumborak
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Are you guys kidding? JP can't even sing in tune. :lol
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Yeah, but that's what autotune is for. We aren't talking about pitch. We're talking about tone and depth.
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Yeah, but that's what autotune is for. We aren't talking about pitch. We're talking about tone and depth.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Wasn't the Wither demo enough to show that autotune doesn't belong in DT? :p
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
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Do you think Mike will ever use those KrotchRaut stickers?
No.
:(
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
Maybe, I'm sure a lot of them do, but JP's need for autotune makes it really obvious when it is used. Really obvious, and thus hard for me to listen to, personally.
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No, I hope after Black Clouds, he steers clear of any sort of vocal unless it's like Octavarium where you can barely hear him say Root, Second, Third etc. etc.
It always kind of disappointed me to hear him attempt growls as it feels unnecessary to their music and sadly feels like he is just trying to fit in with modern metal that I can hear on the radio.
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No, I hope after Black Clouds, he steers clear of any sort of vocal unless it's like Octavarium where you can barely hear him say Root, Second, Third etc. etc.
It always kind of disappointed me to hear him attempt growls as it feels unnecessary to their music and sadly feels like he is just trying to fit in with modern metal that I can hear on the radio.
I think the main problem is that he isn't growling. He is just talking really gruffy, he sounds like a mad old person. If he actually growled or screamed like a pro, we might not have such a problem with it. But like any bad vocalist, it's not wanted.
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I think the main problem is that he isn't growling. He is just talking really gruffy, he sounds like a mad old person. If he actually growled or screamed like a pro, we might not have such a problem with it. But like any bad vocalist, it's not wanted.
Yeah, I guess he isn't really growling.
Did you ever hear any of the other vocal takes for A Nightmare to Remember over on MP's forum? There were three alternate takes of the "growls', one had a full on strain in his voice where it sounded like a burp at the end. The other take that I can remember was the version we hear on the album with JLB singing over it. I actually preferred that version better, but MP said it didn't fit... :-\
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
Maybe, I'm sure a lot of them do, but JP's need for autotune makes it really obvious when it is used. Really obvious, and thus hard for me to listen to, personally.
I think it was more because it was just a demo, and they cared more about quickly putting together an accurate template than about how the end result sounded. It was made to be functional.
The Silent Man Live from Noo Yoik, I Walk Beside You album version are the first two I can think of with fairly prominent Petrucci vocals, but he adds a fair bit.
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Not a album track, but on a B-side or demo it would be ok, for me anyway.
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Having been a vocalist for 25 years, I was surprised and impressed with Mikes vocal work on the recent Transatlantic album. I never thought he was a bad vocalist, but his vocal tone and control of his voice on that record was really good. Does anyone think Mike might ever sing a track on a Dream Theater album?
I hope not, but the way it's going, it's not impossible.
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
Yup. The Wither demo was just slapped together quickly to get the idea across. If JP spent time recording in the studio, he'd obviously sound better with more takes, and the production/effects used would sound better as well.
I may be in the minority, but aside from the pitch issues, I actually preferred JP's vocals on Wither to JLB's. His voice just fits better.
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
Yup. The Wither demo was just slapped together quickly to get the idea across. If JP spent time recording in the studio, he'd obviously sound better with more takes, and the production/effects used would sound better as well.
I may be in the minority, but aside from the pitch issues, I actually preferred JP's vocals on Wither to JLB's. His voice just fits better.
Even in studio, every video I've seen of JP he is really struggling to sing in tune. Kind of a cop out to use autotune in my opinion, if you can't do a good job without it...
But to each their own.
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
Yup. The Wither demo was just slapped together quickly to get the idea across. If JP spent time recording in the studio, he'd obviously sound better with more takes, and the production/effects used would sound better as well.
I may be in the minority, but aside from the pitch issues, I actually preferred JP's vocals on Wither to JLB's. His voice just fits better.
Even in studio, every video I've seen of JP he is really struggling to sing in tune. Kind of a cop out to use autotune in my opinion, if you can't do a good job without it...
But to each their own.
I think Petrucci doesn't consider himself a vocalist, or that's the impression he sends, like... he'll do harmonies when asked. Mike, on the other hand, seems to consider himself a good vocalist, considering he's doing more vocal roles, and I always thought him to have a completely colorless tone, not to mention other singing attributes...
As for the question.... I really hope not. First off that JLB is getting pushed aside enough that it is. Second off that.... no. If Mike started singing studio lead vocals (although I wouldn't put it past him) I would not blame Labrie for wanting to quit.
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I think one would have to be a bit blue-eyed to think MP's vocals have not received a copious amount of autotune and other goodies.
rumborak
Yup. The Wither demo was just slapped together quickly to get the idea across. If JP spent time recording in the studio, he'd obviously sound better with more takes, and the production/effects used would sound better as well.
I may be in the minority, but aside from the pitch issues, I actually preferred JP's vocals on Wither to JLB's. His voice just fits better.
Even in studio, every video I've seen of JP he is really struggling to sing in tune. Kind of a cop out to use autotune in my opinion, if you can't do a good job without it...
But to each their own.
If he is singing on a release, then yes it's a cop out to OVERLY use autotune (you'd be surprised by how many singers use a little bit of autotune all the time, no one notices). But he was getting it together to show JLB, they just happened to release it for some reason as a single. But if I were a singer (and I'm not), and someone handed me a demo that was horribly sung, it wouldn't help me much. I'd much rather them autotune the hell out of their voice so I know what notes to hit.
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I'd say... only for a cover, like he did with Transatlantic and their cover of "A Salty Dog". There may be a song the band would like to cover, either live or in the studio, that might suit Mike's voice more than James', but I'm not sure what song(s) the band would cover that would make for a good vocal for Mike...
-Marc.
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I think Petrucci doesn't consider himself a vocalist, or that's the impression he sends, like... he'll do harmonies when asked. Mike, on the other hand, seems to consider himself a good vocalist, considering he's doing more vocal roles, and I always thought him to have a completely colorless tone, not to mention other singing attributes...
If he is singing on a release, then yes it's a cop out to OVERLY use autotune (you'd be surprised by how many singers use a little bit of autotune all the time, no one notices). But he was getting it together to show JLB, they just happened to release it for some reason as a single. But if I were a singer (and I'm not), and someone handed me a demo that was horribly sung, it wouldn't help me much. I'd much rather them autotune the hell out of their voice so I know what notes to hit.
Well, this is pretty much what I was saying. I don't have a problem with the Wither demo because it was just that... a demo. It wasn't even going to be released, and its barely an official release (but if it was released on an official album, then I wouldn't be too happy). But, JP isn't a vocalist, and he does need autotune... so why would he sing on a track with just him and JLB singing? Like Adami said, a lot of vocalists use autotune, but it is to tweak very minor things.... JP would need so much that it would be noticeable that there is autotune on it.
Autotune isn't really the problem, it's overusing it to cover up lack of ability to sing in tune.
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I think Petrucci doesn't consider himself a vocalist, or that's the impression he sends, like... he'll do harmonies when asked. Mike, on the other hand, seems to consider himself a good vocalist, considering he's doing more vocal roles, and I always thought him to have a completely colorless tone, not to mention other singing attributes...
If he is singing on a release, then yes it's a cop out to OVERLY use autotune (you'd be surprised by how many singers use a little bit of autotune all the time, no one notices). But he was getting it together to show JLB, they just happened to release it for some reason as a single. But if I were a singer (and I'm not), and someone handed me a demo that was horribly sung, it wouldn't help me much. I'd much rather them autotune the hell out of their voice so I know what notes to hit.
Well, this is pretty much what I was saying. I don't have a problem with the Wither demo because it was just that... a demo. It wasn't even going to be released, and its barely an official release (but if it was released on an official album, then I wouldn't be too happy). But, JP isn't a vocalist, and he does need autotune... so why would he sing on a track with just him and JLB singing? Like Adami said, a lot of vocalists use autotune, but it is to tweak very minor things.... JP would need so much that it would be noticeable that there is autotune on it.
Autotune isn't really the problem, it's overusing it to cover up lack of ability to sing in tune.
And click tracks.
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I can shamelessly say that I like his vocals on PoW.
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I can shamelessly say that I like his vocals on PoW.
They work there I guess. His rap is fine too, dunno why everyone hates it so much.
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Because it's corny as fuck.
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Because it's corny as fuck.
I'm glad they put that in there. Otherwise the whole song (and maybe the album, if other pieces were taken out) would've been "we are serious metuhl lolsz"
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Songs about vampires and pharaohs and people coming back from the dead to fight good and evil... while I do agree that I'm glad that the album's not too serious, I don't think the rap's the keystone.
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Realistically, I think that MP will take over more and more vocal parts, eventually resulting in him singing the lead vocals in a song (that he wrote the lyrics for, of course).
I already dread that moment, to be honest. MP's voice doesn't have the range nor the tone nor the depth of a lead vocalist's. He's a decent backing vocalist, but that's all.
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I'm hoping for one full blown death metal growl to fall out of nowhere.
:metal
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I'm hoping for one full blown death metal growl to fall out of nowhere.
:metal
And something like in "Set us free"
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If they want full blown death growls, I hope they get a guest singer because Mike's 'mean' voice is cheesy. But I really hope they just don't use them at all.
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God, I hope not.
+ infinity
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I don't like MP's vocals personally, so I'd be happy with the way things are now.
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I think he did a pretty good job on The Whirlwind, especially in Overture and in Out Of The Night. I would much rather love to see him sing like that in the next album than songs like in Constant Motion/ANTR.
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And the Set us Free Chorus is awesome! Gives me chills!
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It would be my nightmare come true.
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God, I hope not.
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I don't like MP's vocals personally, so I'd be happy with the way things are now.
Correction, I'd be happy with the way it used to be (nugget) where you never heard him (as in the first 3 albums with the exception of The Mirror, where his vocals were used sparingly and effectively)
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Only backing vocals and the lame-o cookie monster vocals they will inevitably include on future albums. Otherwise, no.
Personally, I think the latter is way too much anyway. Backing vocals...I am ok with, but MP should let James do what he does. I wouldn't mind having James do all the vocal work on the records.
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Didn't Portnoy sing the entire first verse of The Glass Prison? As for cookie monster vocals - it's funny because there are some bands that I don't mind it with. DT is not one of those bands. The reason, I think, is because it seems contrived. DT has been known to "try" to sound like certain styles and, I'm sorry, but you really can't "try" to do that whole cookie monster thing. Either you're a heavy, pissed off band that really means that angry stuff or.... you're not. Hearing LaBrie trying to sound pissed off and badass is just goofy.
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Portnoy sings half of the first verse, LaBrie sings the other half, it's a call and response style.
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Didn't Portnoy sing the entire first verse of The Glass Prison? As for cookie monster vocals - it's funny because there are some bands that I don't mind it with. DT is not one of those bands. The reason, I think, is because it seems contrived. DT has been known to "try" to sound like certain styles and, I'm sorry, but you really can't "try" to do that whole cookie monster thing. Either you're a heavy, pissed off band that really means that angry stuff or.... you're not. Hearing LaBrie trying to sound pissed off and badass is just goofy.
I agree, both with vocals and with their overall sound. They rarely pull it off when they try to go into "super heavy" mode, in my opinion. It just isn't their strength.
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Didn't Portnoy sing the entire first verse of The Glass Prison?
No, he sings every other line, and saying he sang is a bit of a stretch, as it was more like hurried talking than singing.
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I think it's possible, but his range and tone/etc would have to fit the song. He's a good vocalist, but I think he's fine where he is.