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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: ZKX-2099 on July 02, 2010, 08:58:37 AM

Title: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZKX-2099 on July 02, 2010, 08:58:37 AM
I think dedicating an entire thread to discussing the victory that is New Millennium is long overdue.

I know that it was kinda built off of Caught In A Web but it's still one of Dream Theaters most unique sounding songs I can think of. It's kinda gotta an enjoyable funk vibe and is up there with Metropolis' instrumental section.

Agree? Of course you do.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Nick on July 02, 2010, 09:01:15 AM
Personally I'd say it is one of my least favorite DT songs and easily my least favorite opener.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Nick on July 02, 2010, 09:02:16 AM
p.s. Raise the Knife should have opened FII.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: KevShmev on July 02, 2010, 09:05:04 AM
Good, solid song, for sure.

But as much as I like it, and like FII, I have always thought that "New Millennium" wasn't a very strong opener. 
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZKX-2099 on July 02, 2010, 09:06:28 AM
I actually think that the opener of each CD has been better than the one before it.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZKX-2099 on July 02, 2010, 09:11:28 AM
Wait no The Glass Prison kicks the ass of everything.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Cool Chris on July 02, 2010, 09:30:21 AM
I hate the keyboard intro, but once the song gets going, it's pretty enjoyable.

But yes, it isn't a great opener. But what else could have opened FII any better (of the songs that made the final cut)?
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: TAC on July 02, 2010, 09:42:46 AM
But what else could have opened FII any better (of the songs that made the final cut)?
Of the songs that made the cut.....Lines In The Sand.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Mebert78 on July 02, 2010, 09:47:03 AM
But what else could have opened FII any better (of the songs that made the final cut)?
Of the songs that made the cut.....Lines In The Sand.

Hmm, interesting.  I like that idea.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: TL on July 02, 2010, 09:55:12 AM
Personally, I really like New Millennium, and I think it makes a good opener.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 02, 2010, 10:22:40 AM
But what else could have opened FII any better (of the songs that made the final cut)?
Of the songs that made the cut.....Lines In The Sand.
Nah, that has to come after Hell's Kitchen.

BTW, I really like New Millenium.  It is one of the few DT songs that I disliked at first, but then grew to appreciate over time.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZKX-2099 on July 02, 2010, 10:29:41 AM
But what else could have opened FII any better (of the songs that made the final cut)?
Of the songs that made the cut.....Lines In The Sand.
Nah, that has to come after Hell's Kitchen.

BTW, I really like New Millenium.  It is one of the few DT songs that I disliked at first, but then grew to appreciate over time.

You kept your head up. (https://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c248/xg2099/emoit/watg.gif)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on July 02, 2010, 10:29:58 AM
I guess so.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Orbert on July 02, 2010, 11:23:49 AM
I really like it as an opener.  From the opening notes, it is clear that some new sounds and influences have entered the Dream Theater repertoire.  I recognized the Chapman Stick immediately and thought it was cool as hell that Myung had picked one up.  It immediately put me into an 80's King Crimson mentality, and a lot of their work had to do with playing patterns against each other, which happens a lot in "New Millenium", so it all fit very nicely.

I can see how a lot of people have trouble with it, as it is definitely an anomoly in the DT catalogue, and they didn't exactly follow this new direction, but I thought it was great.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: BRGM on July 02, 2010, 11:27:07 AM
It's an okay song with nice melodies and fun work on da chapman stick, I agree about that there's no other song on the album that'd be a better opener.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: DarkEternalNight on July 02, 2010, 06:50:07 PM
I love it but it shouldn't have opened the album.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: bosk1 on July 02, 2010, 07:00:47 PM
I really like it, both as a song in general and as the album opener.  Interestingly, DT had fallen off my radar during the FII days, and I didn't hear this song until I heard the Caught In A New Millenium version on LSFNY.  I slightly prefer that version, but not sure if I actually think it is better, or if it's just because I heard that version before I heard the album version, but I really appreciate the clever juxtaposition of the different parts that gave rise to each of the two songs (CIAW and NM).
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZBomber on July 02, 2010, 07:03:33 PM
The version from the FII demos is miles better, imo. I don't know why, but I adore that version.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Darkes7 on July 03, 2010, 04:35:03 AM
Personally I'd say it is one of my least favorite DT songs and easily my least favorite opener.
Sorry, same here.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Marvellous G on July 03, 2010, 06:43:34 AM
I prefer Vicarious, but I do like it.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: skydivingninja on July 03, 2010, 07:22:16 AM
It's an amazing song, easily one of Dream Theater's best opening songs.  Like Orbert said, those new sounds that Derek and the Chapman stick brought really make themselves known and they don't detract from the song at all.  It also has one of the most infectious grooves in a DT song.  If anything, I wish they'd try and make a more "rock" album than anything else because great songs like NM prove that they're really good at it.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: emindead on July 03, 2010, 07:38:16 AM
Personally I'd say it is one of my least favorite DT songs and easily my least favorite opener.
Read the title of this thread, man!
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Nick on July 03, 2010, 07:23:34 PM
Personally I'd say it is one of my least favorite DT songs and easily my least favorite opener.
Read the title of this thread, man!

Fine, I will say something kinda nice.

While Raise the Knife most certainly should have been the song to open Falling Into Infinity, New Millennium certainly would have made an decent B-side.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: yorost on July 03, 2010, 07:33:53 PM
Shame, Nick, shame.

I think it is one of their best openers and is one of my favourite Dream Theater songs.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: j on July 03, 2010, 07:49:47 PM
Great song, and very unique against the backdrop of DT's career.

-J
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: wolfking on July 03, 2010, 08:37:30 PM
Good song...not great...but very good.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: jackbauer114 on July 04, 2010, 06:20:22 PM
In my top 5 DT songs. I LOVE this song.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: tri.ad on July 05, 2010, 08:20:01 AM
p.s. Raise the Knife should have opened FII.

I disagree with that. While Raise The Knife is an amazingly strong song, it doesn't work well as an opener. New Millennium is a decent opener, but LITS would have worked as well imo.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: KevShmev on July 05, 2010, 08:36:11 AM
Actually, I think "Hell's Kitchen" being the first song off FII, an overture of sorts leading into "Lines in the Sand," would have worked wonderfully.  With the very beginning reworked a tad to make it sound like a first song. 
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: tri.ad on July 05, 2010, 08:37:16 AM
Actually, I think "Hell's Kitchen" being the first song off FII, an overture of sorts leading into "Lines in the Sand," would have worked wonderfully.  With the very beginning reworked a tad to make it sound like a first song.  

I actually did that once - I burned a CD with a mix of FII and FII demo songs and made Hell's Kitchen the opening track. It works well, but I agree with you that the beginning would have needed some tweaking.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Plasmastrike on July 05, 2010, 12:37:55 PM
Actually, I think "Hell's Kitchen" being the first song off FII, an overture of sorts leading into "Lines in the Sand," would have worked wonderfully.  With the very beginning reworked a tad to make it sound like a first song. 

Absolutely!
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: tuto on March 26, 2013, 10:06:53 PM
Time to bring this thread back to life. Amazing song. Its a shame that they probably wont play it live again (being James' least favourite DT song)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Jay.Ess on March 27, 2013, 12:15:11 AM
Funnily enough, I've always disliked the song until the last few days! All of a sudden it's just resonated with me musically. Lyrics are a bit mehhhh, but I can live with that :)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Zydar on March 27, 2013, 01:16:34 AM
Great song. I didn't quite care for it at first, but after watching the Budokan DVD it grew on me and now I enjoy it a lot.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Onno on March 27, 2013, 01:31:10 AM
Great song, it's even in my top 50  :)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Ruba on March 27, 2013, 01:43:52 AM
One of the best songs on FII.

DT needs more Chapman Stick.

*dom-dum-dum-dom-dum-dum-dom-dum-dum-dum-woow*
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZKX-2099 on March 27, 2013, 03:35:45 AM
Looks like some peoples opinion on the song has changed... the tide is turning now....................... baby.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: The Stray Seed on March 27, 2013, 03:43:38 AM
I really like it as an opener.  From the opening notes, it is clear that some new sounds and influences have entered the Dream Theater repertoire.  I recognized the Chapman Stick immediately and thought it was cool as hell that Myung had picked one up.  It immediately put me into an 80's King Crimson mentality, and a lot of their work had to do with playing patterns against each other, which happens a lot in "New Millenium", so it all fit very nicely.

I can see how a lot of people have trouble with it, as it is definitely an anomoly in the DT catalogue, and they didn't exactly follow this new direction, but I thought it was great.

Well said Orbert, I totally agree with you. I can understand why many people have troubles with it. And I like this fact. It means they were very courageous in the sound choices they made, which is an effort that has a lot to do with the idea of progressive. They pushed the boundaries, and came up with a great song. Actually, if one has a solid progressive background, as you said before, he will unlikely dislike New Millennium.

The "lies ten feet tall" part always puts a big smile on my face, as I picture John Petrucci's expression while playing that heavy, tasty riff in live at Budokan.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Super Dude on March 27, 2013, 09:38:46 AM
How can you keep your head and not go insane/When the only light at the end/Of the tunnel is another train?

I love that. Not very imaginative, but definitely visceral. I can relate.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Rattlehead on March 27, 2013, 09:48:12 AM
It's a pretty cool song, I actually quite like it as an opener. As a relatively new DT fan, I am guilty of not really giving FII a chance at first, but after revisiting it, I realized how wrong I was to dismiss the album as not worth listening to.  :lol
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Sycsa on March 27, 2013, 10:03:49 AM
Looks like some peoples opinion on the song has changed... the tide is turning now....................... baby.
One of the reasons I'm not too fond of that song is exactly that line...it vibes Axl Rose, not DT.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Pols Voice on March 27, 2013, 12:14:10 PM
This song is great (30th on my Top 50). I love the fun and funky feel.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Dublagent66 on March 27, 2013, 03:10:35 PM
I grew to like it over time but wasn't too impressed with it as an opener when I first got the album.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: WildeSilas on March 27, 2013, 08:01:56 PM
Easily in my top 3, though the keyboard intro made me shelve the album for a few years because I thought the new key player was ruining the band. Also wasn't a fan of a few of the other songs. I'd say now that FII is my second favorite DT album, and not a bad song on it. New Millennium makes me feel like I'm going on a journey. It opens the most unique and creative DT album in the discography and I LOVE IT.  :metal
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Lucidity on March 27, 2013, 09:07:17 PM
I actually really love New Millennium; it's got some very unique vibes to it that I wish DT played with more, and it has tons of great consistent ideas and passages that keep you entertained without boring you. It's not from DT's best, but there is very little wrong with it.

When I'm listening to music on shuffle and New Millennium comes on, I almost never skip it.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Super Dude on March 27, 2013, 09:18:15 PM
This and 6:00 are my two all-time favorite openers. Although On the Backs of Angels ain't half bad either.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: cyberdrummer on September 22, 2013, 02:08:37 PM
I think this song contains one of DT's best instrumental sections. So much groove.

Yes I went there.

Bring back the Chapman stick, JM.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: FlyingBIZKIT on September 22, 2013, 02:28:09 PM
I think this song contains one of DT's best instrumental sections. So much groove.

Yes I went there.

Bring back the Chapman stick, JM.

This.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: WildeSilas on September 22, 2013, 02:53:30 PM
I was too much of a stupid metal head to get NM when I first heard it, and typically skipped over it. Once my ears matured a little and I revisited it, I realized it's probably one of the greatest DT songs ever written. I would love to hear JP play like that again and often - and he actually gets pretty close on DT12. Brilliant composition and Derek is as usual the most creative member in the group at that point.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Buddyhunter1 on September 22, 2013, 02:55:56 PM
2nd best song on FII.

I wouldn't be bothered to post this if the song wasn't so underrated.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: TheAtliator on September 22, 2013, 03:01:15 PM
I freakin love this song!!! I'd love to see it live.

KEEP YOUR F***IN HEAD UP
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Super Dude on September 22, 2013, 03:02:00 PM
I love how groovy this era in DT was. A small part of me wishes the band had gone radio friendly afterwards.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Tunnel Vision on September 22, 2013, 07:32:01 PM
One my favorite moments of the Live at Budokan concert is the intro to New Millennium. Awesome keyboard sound + chapman + JP's soaring guitar make for a great intro :)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: jammindude on September 22, 2013, 07:36:52 PM
The breakdown in NM is IMO, one of the funnest moments in DT history.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: adamack on September 22, 2013, 07:56:12 PM
Time to bring this thread back to life. Amazing song. Its a shame that they probably wont play it live again (being James' least favourite DT song)

Wow, great nugget of info that I never knew. I've always wanted to know each member of DT's fav/least fav DT song...

...

...  :justjen New thread idea?!
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 10, 2018, 10:08:45 PM
I fucking love this song  :hefdaddy


(ps. there's definitely a 46&2 reference around 4 mins, DT really liked Tool around those years if it wasn't blatantly obvious)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ToT-147 on January 11, 2018, 10:42:28 AM
I think dedicating an entire thread to discussing the victory that is New Millennium is long overdue.

I know that it was kinda built off of Caught In A Web but it's still one of Dream Theaters most unique sounding songs I can think of. It's kinda gotta an enjoyable funk vibe and is up there with Metropolis' instrumental section.

Agree? Of course you do.

Ok.. I have plenty of unpopular opinions (generally speaking), but I never thought I would ever see/hear someone comparing just like that my least favorite DT song with my favorite song (generally speaking :v).. Now I have seen everything...



PS: I don't need to clarify which is which, rigth?..
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Cool Chris on January 11, 2018, 11:14:21 AM
I would have pegged Raw Dog as James' least favorite song.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 11, 2018, 06:26:20 PM
I would have pegged Raw Dog as James' least favorite song.

James in the studio hearing for the first time, after two weeks of pampering at the masseuse:


Quote
James:  So, you sent me away for two weeks.....JUST TO WRITE THIS SHIT?????
Quote
Petrucci: It was Mikes idea.......
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Ninjabait on January 11, 2018, 07:23:45 PM
Honestly, I don't get all the hate for New Millennium. I think it's a great song all around, and is like a master class in maintaining a groove through like 72 time signature changes. I hardly even notice some of the odd meters in the song, they're just used so subtly. The interlude maintains interest without being overly flashy (imo it's super conservative by DT standards), and it has one of my all-time favorite basslines. All the playing is really just...tasteful.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 11, 2018, 10:36:57 PM
Honestly, I don't get all the hate for New Millennium.

Where?

I think it's a great song all around, and is like a master class in maintaining a groove through like 72 time signature changes. I hardly even notice some of the odd meters in the song, they're just used so subtly. The interlude maintains interest without being overly flashy (imo it's super conservative by DT standards), and it has one of my all-time favorite basslines. All the playing is really just...tasteful.

Agreed!
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Cool Chris on January 11, 2018, 10:41:35 PM
No one is going to say the groove and base aren't quite good. The lyrics and terrible keyboard bring it down. Popping FII in the CD player for the first time and hearing that grating keyboard intro, I was all "Uhhhhhh............. what?"
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: DTA on January 12, 2018, 12:56:19 PM
New Millennium is awesome. I'm just not hearing the things that people say are "wrong" with it. This is easily the most fun DT song they've ever released.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 01:02:05 PM
I keep wondering about people who mention the "keyboard intro".  That's a Chapman Stick, not a keyboard.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Adami on January 12, 2018, 01:21:57 PM
I keep wondering about people who mention the "keyboard intro".  That's a Chapman Stick, not a keyboard.

The very intro? That's keyboard too. After that it's all just chapman for a few seconds.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: pg1067 on January 12, 2018, 01:55:08 PM
I keep wondering about people who mention the "keyboard intro".  That's a Chapman Stick, not a keyboard.

The Stick doesn't come in until around the 30 second mark.  Before that it's keys/guitar.

I like the intro to the song, but then it just plods along and commits the biggest sin any song can commit:  it's BORING.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: YtseJamittaja on January 12, 2018, 02:18:30 PM
The groovy instrumental section and John's guitar there are the best thing in this song. Loving that groove!  I have to say that I enjoy NM a lot, I really would love to see it live, could be really surprise but I think we never hear it again because of James's hate to this song.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 03:15:27 PM
I keep wondering about people who mention the "keyboard intro".  That's a Chapman Stick, not a keyboard.

The very intro? That's keyboard too. After that it's all just chapman for a few seconds.

The Stick doesn't come in until around the 30 second mark.  Before that it's keys/guitar.

My mind is blown.  From the moment I first put on the CD, I was certain that those opening patterns were Stick.  It never occurred to me that they were anything else.  When I mentioned the Stick and others also noted it, I was reassured.  The fact that there is Stick, but not where I thought it was, is actually kinda funny (to me anyway).

FII was one of the first DT albums I ever bought, and I didn't realize until much later that some of the leads that I thought were guitar were actually synth.  Partly because I wasn't listening that critically, and partly because Derek brought such a different approach to keyboards that I didn't even recognize his sounds as coming from keyboards.

And yes, that's pretty sad since I'm a keyboard player, but DT was the first Prog Metal band I'd ever heard and I'd never heard keyboards used this way before.  Metal was always the domain of guitars, and I was amazed that a band had even found a way to integrate keyboards into their sound.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Adami on January 12, 2018, 03:22:35 PM
Honestly, I only really knew what was what from watching the Live in Budakon.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Pragmaticcircus on January 12, 2018, 03:59:46 PM
Instrumentally really makes me go "Damn, now I know why I love this song so much!"   :metal :metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkGPOaXR_g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkGPOaXR_g)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Orbert on January 12, 2018, 04:01:16 PM
Honestly, I only really knew what was what from watching the Live in Budakon.

For me, it was Five Years in a LIVETime.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Tunnel Vision on January 12, 2018, 05:21:22 PM
Instrumentally really makes me go "Damn, now I know why I love this song so much!"   :metal :metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkGPOaXR_g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkGPOaXR_g)

Yep, same here. I've been listening to the instrumental version of the entire album too and it's fantastic.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Ninjabait on January 12, 2018, 08:33:37 PM
Honestly, I don't get all the hate for New Millennium.

Where?

Here! I've seen a not totally insignificant number of people here complain about the song and list it as one of their least favorites.

No one is going to say the groove and base aren't quite good. The lyrics and terrible keyboard bring it down. Popping FII in the CD player for the first time and hearing that grating keyboard intro, I was all "Uhhhhhh............. what?"

Yeah, I'm not really going to defend the keyboard/guitar intro there. It's probably the low point of the song, alongside that random atmospheric slow bridge 3:30ish in. Those are the only two parts of the song that I'm not a fan of this
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Evai on January 13, 2018, 06:28:34 AM
New Millennium is awesome!
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: jammindude on January 13, 2018, 06:58:26 PM
Sorry, but I love the intro, and the music breakdown where they repeat the riff is one my favorite instrumental moments in all of DT history.   :coolio
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ToT-147 on January 14, 2018, 07:15:53 AM
I know that it was kinda built off of Caught In A Web but it's still one of Dream Theaters most unique sounding songs I can think of.

Ok, sorry to double quote the OP, but I couldn't find any info about this.. It's something a band member told in an interview or something like that? .. I mean, sure some parts sound very similar, actually I always thought that was the only reason why they did the CIANM medley.. but built off, like The Mirror/Lie?, that'd be something interesting to know more of..

Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: SjundeInseglet on January 14, 2018, 12:09:39 PM
I know that it was kinda built off of Caught In A Web but it's still one of Dream Theaters most unique sounding songs I can think of.

Ok, sorry to double quote the OP, but I couldn't find any info about this.. It's something a band member told in an interview or something like that? .. I mean, sure some parts sound very similar, actually I always thought that was the only reason why they did the CIANM medley.. but built off, like The Mirror/Lie?, that'd be something interesting to know more of..

During some gigs in 1996 and 1997, DT played something (a heavily distorted and modified version of "Caught In a Web") that came to be dubbed as "Caught In Alice's 9 Inch Tool Garden". It eventually went through enough changes that it became its own song, "New Millenium". Here's how it originally sounded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-kU6IFPC4
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ToT-147 on January 14, 2018, 01:10:41 PM
I know that it was kinda built off of Caught In A Web but it's still one of Dream Theaters most unique sounding songs I can think of.

Ok, sorry to double quote the OP, but I couldn't find any info about this.. It's something a band member told in an interview or something like that? .. I mean, sure some parts sound very similar, actually I always thought that was the only reason why they did the CIANM medley.. but built off, like The Mirror/Lie?, that'd be something interesting to know more of..

During some gigs in 1996 and 1997, DT played something (a heavily distorted and modified version of "Caught In a Web") that came to be dubbed as "Caught In Alice's 9 Inch Tool Garden". It eventually went through enough changes that it became its own song, "New Millenium". Here's how it originally sounded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-kU6IFPC4

Thanks, that's awesome!..
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: HOF on January 29, 2020, 10:14:49 PM
The instrumental portions of New Millennium are wonderful. I never get tired of hearing Myung on the Chapman stick. Portnoy has a killer groove, and I love the keyboard sound and really unique JP guitar part. I even really like the chorus (baby and all). But this song would have improved by leaps and bounds if they had dropped the second verse altogether (the “keep your head up” portion) and just gone straight to the instrumental break after the first chorus.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Revenge319 on January 30, 2020, 02:58:53 AM
The studio version is alright, but the Live at Budokan version is really good.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: KidInTheDark666 on January 30, 2020, 05:35:44 AM
This is definitely a bottom 3 DT song, excluding the endless ballads on The Astonishing.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: ZirconBlue on January 30, 2020, 07:15:25 AM


This is definitely a bottom 3 DT song, excluding the endless ballads on The Astonishing.



Someone doesn't understand what "appreciation" means, apparently.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: KidInTheDark666 on January 30, 2020, 07:31:28 AM

This is definitely a bottom 3 DT song, excluding the endless ballads on The Astonishing.



Someone doesn't understand what "appreciation" means, apparently.
Do we have a specific thread for New Millennium haters?
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: pg1067 on January 30, 2020, 07:47:11 AM
This is definitely a bottom 3 DT song, excluding the endless ballads on The Astonishing.

Yup.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Max Kuehnau on January 31, 2020, 06:32:54 AM
I actually heard DT use New Millennium as the opening piece during one of the concerts I went to in 2002. That was absolutely unexpected. (you would have guessed it was The Glass Prison, no it wasn't that day)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: devieira73 on January 31, 2020, 12:38:24 PM
I know that it was kinda built off of Caught In A Web but it's still one of Dream Theaters most unique sounding songs I can think of.

Ok, sorry to double quote the OP, but I couldn't find any info about this.. It's something a band member told in an interview or something like that? .. I mean, sure some parts sound very similar, actually I always thought that was the only reason why they did the CIANM medley.. but built off, like The Mirror/Lie?, that'd be something interesting to know more of..

During some gigs in 1996 and 1997, DT played something (a heavily distorted and modified version of "Caught In a Web") that came to be dubbed as "Caught In Alice's 9 Inch Tool Garden". It eventually went through enough changes that it became its own song, "New Millenium". Here's how it originally sounded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-kU6IFPC4
This live version is, with excellent quality, on official bootleg’s Old Bridge New Jersey 12/14/96, although is named only Caught In a Web.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Northern Lion on January 31, 2020, 01:48:23 PM
I gotta say, I like NM quite a bit and think it's one of the best tracks on FII.  And I really love the intro.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Lupton on February 02, 2020, 07:56:54 PM
Good solid song. Already noted by Orbert, the intro finds them in exploratory mode homage-ing Crimson, Chapman stick sound and all. That main line always makes me think of "Discipline" every time I hear it. Does this new approach build the desired amount of energy going into the meat of the song? Not sure. It's different for them. But to me it feels like all tension (with no release). The rest of the tune is just sort of there for me, but not an unpleasant listening experience. Nothing much in the various verse, chorus and bridgy sections really "grabs" me, even though it's a good song. TBH even the songs I like on FII are not among my favorite DT tunes, but I do love the way the production sounds on that album. I wish more of their albums sounded as good production-wise.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: GasparXR on February 03, 2020, 01:55:11 PM
I love New Millennium. It's such a unique song in the DT catalogue, but it also contains some unmistakably DT sounds with the instrumental section. It's weirdly poppy by prog standards but still very prog by pop standards, especially considering it's length.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 03, 2020, 02:29:38 PM
Add me to the list that loves New Millenium. Then again, I'm probably one of the biggest fans of FII on this board, so it's not surprising I love the lead track.  :lol

I wish it would surface again in set lists. Really a shame tracks like NM, the beautiful Anna Lee, and even the lead single, You Not Me, don't get played. I think too much attention was paid to critical comments on some of this period by MP. Some really good stuff on FII, and New Millenium is great.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Max Kuehnau on February 03, 2020, 02:33:41 PM
Add me to the list that loves New Millenium. Then again, I'm probably one of the biggest fans of FII on this board, so it's not surprising I love the lead track.  :lol

I wish it would surface again in set lists. Really a shame tracks like NM, the beautiful Anna Lee, and even the lead single, You Not Me, don't get played. I think too much attention was paid to critical comments on some of this period by MP. Some really good stuff on FII, and New Millenium is great.
There were some FII pieces that were played in MM's era though, in case you might remember (or you might not, I don't know :D) . (Trial in 2014, HK in 2017, Burning My Soul in 2015 and Peruvian Skies  in 2011)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 03, 2020, 03:04:26 PM

There were some FII pieces that were played in MM's era though, in case you might remember (or you might not, I don't know :D) . (Trial in 2014, HK in 2017, Burning My Soul in 2015 and Peruvian Skies  in 2011)

No, I mean the stuff from FII that is never played at all. They've always (DT) played HK, BMS and Peruvian Skies. New Millenium, Anna Lee, You Not Me, etc., just have not been played (AFAIK) since the FII dates. And I'm not sure if Anna Lee has ever been played honestly. I only saw DT once twice during the FII years. Once opening for Deep Purple at Jones Beach (they played New Millenium and You Not Me), and then the holiday show at Irving Plaza in December 1998.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Max Kuehnau on February 03, 2020, 03:10:11 PM
Ah right ok, I'm sorry. Yes, Anna Lee was played (not released though) during the concert in Paris in 1998 (what we now know as Once In A Livetime), it was however released on the DT Fanclub CD of 1998. (which also features some versions of pieces that were originally intended for FII, had it become a double album, like Speak To Me)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 03, 2020, 03:15:21 PM
Ah right ok, I'm sorry. Yes, Anna Lee was played (not released though) during the concert in Paris in 1998 (what we now know as Once In A Livetime), it was however released on the DT Fanclub CD of 1998. (which also features some versions of pieces that were originally intended for FII, had it become a double album, like Speak To Me)

I have the Cleaning Out the Closet fan club CD, it isn't on there. That's the disc that Speak to Me, Cover My Eyes, etc., was on. So I think you're either thinking of something else, or just mistaken.

My overall point is, Anna Lee may have done as a one-off or a couple times, but it has never been played regularly on a tour, and it should be. Just as I think New Millenium needs to be a regular staple again at some point. Just different songs from FII, instead of the appearance of Trial of Tears, and the others that have been common on tours since then. I'd love to hear some of the more forgotten FII stuff.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Max Kuehnau on February 03, 2020, 03:20:10 PM
Forgive me for saying so, but: Some FII material (probably even NM) might have made sense on this current tour, because some of D/T has that grittier aspect in the music (S2n particularly). (and NM certainly made sense in the set during parts of the 6D tour IMHO. As I mentioned, they opened 2 of the 4 concerts I attended on that tour with NM) Apart from that, I respect anyone who likes FII, but I'm not one of these people. (hence why I always do my best to be neutral on this particular subject of DT)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: hefdaddy42 on February 03, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
Yeah, Anna Lee can be found on the Five Years in a LIVEtime DVD (or VHS, as the case may be).  JP played slide guitar for the solo on a gorgeous Ibanez Talman guitar.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 03, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Yeah, Anna Lee can be found on the Five Years in a LIVEtime DVD (or VHS, as the case may be).  JP played slide guitar for the solo on a gorgeous Ibanez Talman guitar.

I remember that now. Need to re-watch this week. Haven't pulled out that DVD in ages.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Max Kuehnau on February 03, 2020, 03:29:08 PM
Yeah, Anna Lee can be found on the Five Years in a LIVEtime DVD (or VHS, as the case may be).  JP played slide guitar for the solo on a gorgeous Ibanez Talman guitar.
I watched it a lot as a child (on VHS actually, believe it or not) and I couldn't remember that detail. I do remember watching DT working in the studio for Awake and FII though. (Cock Banana, if anyone remembers? :D Must have been a Derek thing)
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: gzarruk on February 03, 2020, 05:00:12 PM
If they only play the same songs from FII it's because the rest aren't that good :P

Joking aside, FII isn't a fan favorite album, so it's not really something they want to invest a lot of set time on. Still, like Max said, quite a few songs have made it to the set on the MM era, so we might see more pop up in future tours. I expect them to play Hollow Years and maybe LITS again at some point.

About NM played live again, I don't think that'll happen as this is what James said about it in 2011:

Quote
Here’s a question that a fan asked me to bring up: What are your favorite and least favorite songs to perform live?

Uuuuuh… Least favorite… I would say, probably… I don’t know… New Millennium. That song, I just didn’t feel it. There were some cool moments in it, I just didn’t… whenever we performed it, I didn’t feel it.

Source: http://dreamtheater.club/blog/2011/07/11/resurfacing-an-interview-with-james-labrie/

And I do recall a live online Q&A with DT around the time DT12 was released where Jordan was asked about two songs related to the previous two keyboardists (Eve - KM, and Anna Lee - DS) that hadn't been played since 98 and Jordan asnwered something along the lines of "if they haven't been played for that long, there might be a good reason for that", so no Anna Lee live either.

As for me, personally, I consider FII to be one of DT's weakest albums (ironically, the sound and production are almost perfect), but the good songs are really good, so I'd rather have them focus on those than try to play something like You Not Me or JLMB.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Cool Chris on February 03, 2020, 08:08:48 PM
Jordan asnwered something along the lines of "if they haven't been played for that long, there might be a good reason for that"

Indeed! No appreciation for this song from me so I will leave it at that.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Setlist Scotty on February 03, 2020, 08:29:11 PM
New Millenium, Anna Lee, You Not Me, etc., just have not been played (AFAIK) since the FII dates.
That is true about AL and YNM, but NM was played during the second half of World Tourbulence in 2002, Escape From the Studio in 2003 and the Train of Thought tour in 2004. In fact, it's on Live at Budokan (the last time it was performed live). JL's dislike for the song no doubt has played a part in why it hasn't been performed in the MM-era, but may have even been a reason why it wasn't featured in later MP-era setlists either.
 
 
Ah right ok, I'm sorry. Yes, Anna Lee was played (not released though) during the concert in Paris in 1998 (what we now know as Once In A Livetime), it was however released on the DT Fanclub CD of 1998. (which also features some versions of pieces that were originally intended for FII, had it become a double album, like Speak To Me)
I have the Cleaning Out the Closet fan club CD, it isn't on there. That's the disc that Speak to Me, Cover My Eyes, etc., was on. So I think you're either thinking of something else, or just mistaken.
Actually Max is right - you're the one who's got them mixed up. The OiaL outtakes, which included tracks from both the Dutch fan club show and a handful of tracks from the Paris show that didn't make it to OiaL, were released as the 1998 fan club CD. Cleaning Out the Closet was the fan club CD released in 1999. And you can find a live version of AL on the 1998 fan club CD.  :)
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/discography/page2.html#fanclub
 
 
And I do recall a live online Q&A with DT around the time DT12 was released where Jordan was asked about two songs related to the previous two keyboardists (Eve - KM, and Anna Lee - DS) that hadn't been played since 98 and Jordan asnwered something along the lines of "if they haven't been played for that long, there might be a good reason for that", so no Anna Lee live either.
AL was always considered very much to be a "Derek" song, so that could be a reason why it's not been performed since he left. Then again, the same is true of SDVest being a "KevMo" song, so who knows?   :P
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: pg1067 on February 03, 2020, 08:42:39 PM
Interestingly, New Millennium is, IMO, the worst song on DT's worst album, but it's not DT's worst song.  Repentance gets that "honor."
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: gzarruk on February 03, 2020, 09:11:42 PM
And I do recall a live online Q&A with DT around the time DT12 was released where Jordan was asked about two songs related to the previous two keyboardists (Eve - KM, and Anna Lee - DS) that hadn't been played since 98 and Jordan asnwered something along the lines of "if they haven't been played for that long, there might be a good reason for that", so no Anna Lee live either.
AL was always considered very much to be a "Derek" song, so that could be a reason why it's not been performed since he left. Then again, the same is true of SDVest being a "KevMo" song, so who knows?   :P

But SDV is much more appreciated by the fans than AL (or at least it seems so). I'm honestly not too crazy about either one, but I think SDV is more interesting than AL.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 04, 2020, 07:41:13 AM
Scotty - thanks for clearing all that up.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Stadler on February 04, 2020, 07:44:38 AM
FII isn't my favorite DT album, but it's not my least favorite either; I much prefer the Director's Cut of that album.  Having said that, in listening to it recently, it brings back good times, and I miss that era very much.  The music had space, had breath, and it still had the sense of "searching". 
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 04, 2020, 08:11:18 AM
  The music had space, had breath, and it still had the sense of "searching".

Well put. That's exactly why it appeals to me so much.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: HOF on February 04, 2020, 10:33:36 AM
FII isn't my favorite DT album, but it's not my least favorite either; I much prefer the Director's Cut of that album.  Having said that, in listening to it recently, it brings back good times, and I miss that era very much.  The music had space, had breath, and it still had the sense of "searching".

I know the band hated the process they had to go through to make the album, and the end result was to some extent still botched by the outside powers that be, but I really believe being pushed to work and rework the material for this album was absolutely a positive thing that resulted in some of their strongest material. While it might not be to most DT fans’ or the band’s tastes (it is more to mine than what has followed it), it is the furthest thing from a DT by the numbers type of album and I will always love that about it.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: Samsara on February 04, 2020, 10:55:27 AM


I know the band hated the process they had to go through to make the album, and the end result was to some extent still botched by the outside powers that be, but I really believe being pushed to work and rework the material for this album was absolutely a positive thing that resulted in some of their strongest material. While it might not be to most DT fans’ or the band’s tastes (it is more to mine than what has followed it), it is the furthest thing from a DT by the numbers type of album and I will always love that about it.

Yes! To be frank, I know DT has always bristled at having a producer or outside ear. But I really think it benefited them on their 90s records. I really do. To-date, I consider I&W, Awake, and FII three of their best albums (with SFAM and Distance Over Time) in the top-5 as well. And part of that reason is that I think the 90s records really captured their technical ability, but also the soulful quality of the band - that fine line between playing and over playing. I think once SFAM hit, and particularly after that, they overplayed, and its the reason why I don't think as highly of them. Still like the 00s output, but not as much. And I think that outside influence, and helping the band hone in their natural tendencies to overplay, helped. Just thinking out loud. Obviously, people love their 2000s output a ton, and they spiked in popularity then, so I'm likely in the minority on this. But you really captured something I agree with
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: gzarruk on February 04, 2020, 06:15:17 PM
I know the band hated the process they had to go through to make the album

Well, not really. Portnoy hated the process, and he was VERY vocal about it, but that doesn't mean all of them hated it:

Quote
Rockbook: - Let’s jump back in time a bit. It’s a known fact, that your ex-label had kind of an „influence” on your ’Falling Into Infinity’ album. If there hadn’t been this influence, in what ways would this album have been different?

John Petrucci: - Maybe I could set the records straight: I think that’s a really big misunderstanding. The label didn’t have an influence on the album. We wrote the kind of album we wanted to write. We went in there with Kevin Shirley, a great friend of mine, and we got really experimental with the songs, you know, how we recorded each song. Each song was recorded completely different, which was something that was new for us. Different amps, different drum kits, everything. And Kevin, as a producer – if that’s the influence we’re talking about- did come in, saying: „In that song let’s move this and that”, and he did what producers do. I think it’s a great album, I’m really proud of it. I think that’s a misunderstanding, as to the direction, but I’ve heard people say that before. It’s different.  The first album with Derek, we had a new influence in him as a keyboard player and writer, like I said the way that Kevin produced it was very different, so it kinda stands out in a lot of ways. Even the things that I used, different guitars and things. Very different.

(https://www.rockbook.hu/hirek/john-petrucci-interview-label-didnt-have-influence-falling-infinity-album)


I think once SFAM hit, and particularly after that, they overplayed, and its the reason why I don't think as highly of them. Still like the 00s output, but not as much. And I think that outside influence, and helping the band hone in their natural tendencies to overplay, helped. Just thinking out loud. Obviously, people love their 2000s output a ton, and they spiked in popularity then, so I'm likely in the minority on this. But you really captured something I agree with

I agree for the most part. Like I already said, FII is a bottom tier DT album for me, but you're right about them starting to overplay after SFAM. I still think SDOIT is a masterpiece, but after that you could really feel a change in their albums, and that's when the "let's make long songs because we can" mindset started dominating their music.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: HOF on February 04, 2020, 07:08:22 PM
I do remember seeing that interview from JP now. Fair enough, I wouldn’t put it past MP to speak for the rest of the band. But the process I’m referring to is also how the label wouldn’t green light the new album for a long time (before they even started working with Shirley), which resulted in them doing demo after demo until the label gave them the go ahead. I think that process along with having input from Shirley during the recording sessions really resulted in a lot of strong material. It’s also very different than the process they have employed for the most part since. I don’t think working with Kevin Shirley was really the source of the band’s frustration during that period (they kept working with him for some time after that in a non-producer capacity).

I do think John would admit he enjoys the freedom of being the producer though, as he and Mike first co-produced on the LTE album right after FII was done and then pretty much never looked back as far as having an outside producer again.  Even after Mike left the band haven’t tried working with an outside producer again.
Title: Re: Official New Millennium appreciation thread.
Post by: gzarruk on February 04, 2020, 08:04:29 PM
I definitely agree that having an external producer can help them craft a better album, and I actually prefer the final versions of the FII songs over the original arrangements, it's just that, IMO, most of the material wasn't that good to begin with (for DT standards). This album followed IAW and Awake and had pretty much none of the things that made those two as great as they are in terms of songwriting (the performances on FII are top notch as always).