DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site

Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: antigoon on June 23, 2010, 04:42:32 PM

Title: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: antigoon on June 23, 2010, 04:42:32 PM
https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/dream-theaters-mike-portnoy-answers-your-questions-256514

It's pretty long, too. Some good stuff aside from the usual questions.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: TAC on June 23, 2010, 04:59:45 PM
Hey Goon, thanks for the link. Made for some interesting reading over dinner.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Darkes7 on June 23, 2010, 05:42:02 PM
Very interesting read, thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Gadough on June 23, 2010, 05:44:19 PM
Quote
Interesting you say that because Matt Cowan asks, Dude, what's with the beard?

[laughs] "My dad always said, 'It's better to have a blue beard than blue balls!' So there you go."

...If that's really why he dies his beard blue, that's among the greatest things I've ever heard. :rollin
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: emindead on June 23, 2010, 06:35:17 PM
The drumming in that song, "Nightmare", is really interesting. You can feel Mike's vibe in some fills, but it's something really different. I really like the drumming in this song. Simple, yet creative and tasty.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Zydar on June 24, 2010, 12:37:44 AM
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Mladen on June 24, 2010, 03:07:51 AM
An interesting read indeed.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Silver Tears on June 24, 2010, 07:02:24 AM
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Seventh Son on June 26, 2010, 10:51:20 AM
Actually, I'm quite disappointed to hear that Mike uses a click. I honestly feel a click track takes away a lot of emotion in a song, so that saddens me. Hopefully Mike decides not to use one in later releases....
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Mladen on June 26, 2010, 12:48:59 PM
What is a click track?
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: RobD on June 26, 2010, 01:32:16 PM
Actually, I'm quite disappointed to hear that Mike uses a click. I honestly feel a click track takes away a lot of emotion in a song, so that saddens me. Hopefully Mike decides not to use one in later releases....

Actually, for BC&SL at least, the band would play the track together as they did in the Train of Though demos and then make the click track based on that. Without it, editing and especially editing MIDI data takes way too long as you can't match stuff to bars, beats or notes.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Seventh Son on June 26, 2010, 01:34:14 PM
What is a click track?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_track

Its something used to make sure a drummer's pace is exact throughout a song's recording. For stuff like prog or technical death metal, its very hard to pull off without it. If you don't use a click track, you're more likely going to hear slight mistakes in the drummer through the song (No drummer is perfect, obviously). While its all good and well to keep his pace perfect, I find the small, little mistakes make for a bit more emotion and a type of groove, if you will.

Obviously Mike is a talented drummer, I just frown a bit when I see that someone uses a click track. That's just a small pet peeve of mine.

Actually, I'm quite disappointed to hear that Mike uses a click. I honestly feel a click track takes away a lot of emotion in a song, so that saddens me. Hopefully Mike decides not to use one in later releases....

Actually, for BC&SL at least, the band would play the track together as they did in the Train of Though demos and then make the click track based on that. Without it, editing and especially editing MIDI data takes way too long as you can't match stuff to bars, beats or notes.

I get that, but I just like to hear the song as if it were played live. I'm not a huge fan of major studio-polish ups. I like raw production values more so than I like it when a band feels the need to touch it up and make every little note perfect. There's joy to be had in imperfection.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: RobD on June 26, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
Sorry, hadn't read that bit at that point. :P

Yeah, I'm putting that down to the fact that they probably have either lots of keyboard sounds on playback so they can have them as they play, or possibly matching them up to visuals/videos as well. With all the strings stuff, real strings on playback beat live keyboards any day. Dethklok do the same, Devin Townsend does the same and they're better shows now then if they did them without.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Seventh Son on June 26, 2010, 02:02:20 PM
Sorry, hadn't read that bit at that point. :P

Yeah, I'm putting that down to the fact that they probably have either lots of keyboard sounds on playback so they can have them as they play, or possibly matching them up to visuals/videos as well. With all the strings stuff, real strings on playback beat live keyboards any day. Dethklok do the same, Devin Townsend does the same and they're better shows now then if they did them without.

You see, I'm not exactly a fan of Devin Townsend nor am I fond towards Dethklok either. I still have a preference towards raw productions instead of productions that are touched up and automatic. There's a bit of soul and emotion to be found in little mistakes here and there. If John Petruci missed one note by a half a second in a solo of his, would you complain about it? I wouldn't, but I can't speak for the others. But I listen to death and black metal, so this is probably why I think this way (Well, except a lot of Tech death that uses clicks because to me it just sounds robotic as hell and devoid of soul)
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
I gotta tell you 7th son, from an engineer and musicians point of view, recording any kind of metal without a click is just annoying. For instance, proper count ins either at the begining, or breaks are REALLY hard without one. Editing is just a complete nightmare, midi is terrible, and recording anything after the drums are finished are much harder. When I've recorded bands, there were times that listening only to the other instruments messed up their playing, they needed the click to keep them steady.

It's not just "so the drummer can be perfect".
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Seventh Son on June 26, 2010, 02:38:26 PM
There are metal bands that are able to record their stuff without a click track. To my knowledge, its simply recorded live and then mastered from there on.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: OperantChamber on June 26, 2010, 02:43:33 PM
There's a bit of soul and emotion to be found in little mistakes here and there. If John Petruci missed one note by a half a second in a solo of his, would you complain about it? I wouldn't, but I can't speak for the others. But I listen to death and black metal, so this is probably why I think this way (Well, except a lot of Tech death that uses clicks because to me it just sounds robotic as hell and devoid of soul)

I listen to Death Metal and Black Metal too and I can say that of all the times I've seen DT live (videos only :() I cringe at timing mistakes. I definitely understand where you're coming from with wanting the sound to be 'real' more or less - it's why I don't like drum triggers, but I think that mistakes shouldn't be interpreted as emotion.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2010, 02:53:02 PM
There are metal bands that are able to record their stuff without a click track. To my knowledge, its simply recorded live and then mastered from there on.

Yea, bands who can't afford to pay for a good amount of proper studio time. In fact, I've spoken with bands who did that, all of them regreted it.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2010, 02:54:13 PM
There's a bit of soul and emotion to be found in little mistakes here and there. If John Petruci missed one note by a half a second in a solo of his, would you complain about it? I wouldn't, but I can't speak for the others. But I listen to death and black metal, so this is probably why I think this way (Well, except a lot of Tech death that uses clicks because to me it just sounds robotic as hell and devoid of soul)

I listen to Death Metal and Black Metal too and I can say that of all the times I've seen DT live (videos only :() I cringe at timing mistakes. I definitely understand where you're coming from with wanting the sound to be 'real' more or less - it's why I don't like drum triggers, but I think that mistakes shouldn't be interpreted as emotion.

Exactly (minus the drum trigger thing). There's a fast difference between a band like DT and a band liek Fear Factory. Both use a click, but only has a feeling of a human being playing it. A click track doesn't stop that.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: The Letter M on June 26, 2010, 04:07:35 PM
Music without a click track? If you want that, see or hear or buy a live DT album. I think MP states that he's never used a click track in a live setting (until later this summer with A7X), so that means that DT plays live without a click, which, if you want something raw and with more HUMAN feeling in it, rather than sticking to a click track, that's what a live show is for.

To me, using a click track is the rhythmic equivalent to using a tuner for melodic/harmonic purposes. It's just one way to make sure the music stays together, be it in time or in tune, and it allows all the parts of a song to come together nicely, and in line, and makes editing easier, be it as a whole song or individual tracks (especially when you are working with 20+ tracks for different sounds or instruments). Besides, I think using a click in studio helps them create the music they hear, and want us to hear, especially if it can't be recreated live (due to layering or otherwise lack of instrumentalists).

Now if they used a click ALL the time, in the studio and on stage, I would be concerned, but I don't know of too many bands (particularly prog), who use click tracks during their live shows - the music lends itself to be memorized and played organically at times, due to the nature of some prog bands/music. But for bands like A7X and others, they probably use clicks for triggering things on time, which is understandable - you don't want to miss triggering something if the band is going slowly or too fast, or you just aren't paying attention.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: ehra on June 26, 2010, 04:25:33 PM
Quote
"Yes, John did tackle James on stage on a bet. Would I do the same thing for a few hundred dollars? Hey, I'd do it for ten! [laughs]

A sign of tension between Mike and LaBrie??!?!
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Gadough on June 26, 2010, 05:11:16 PM
Quote
"Yes, John did tackle James on stage on a bet. Would I do the same thing for a few hundred dollars? Hey, I'd do it for ten! [laughs]

A sign of tension between Mike and LaBrie??!?!

That's not at all how I interpreted it.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2010, 05:13:11 PM
It's not a sign of tension between Portnoy and LaBrie. It's a sign of tension between a 10 dollar bill and LaBrie. Portnoy is just siding with the 10 dollar bill. How else could you interpret that?
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Gadough on June 26, 2010, 05:13:49 PM
....Exactly!

 :lol
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Darkes7 on June 26, 2010, 05:14:38 PM
CONSPIRACY :dangerwillrobinson:
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Seventh Son on June 26, 2010, 07:10:42 PM
There's a bit of soul and emotion to be found in little mistakes here and there. If John Petruci missed one note by a half a second in a solo of his, would you complain about it? I wouldn't, but I can't speak for the others. But I listen to death and black metal, so this is probably why I think this way (Well, except a lot of Tech death that uses clicks because to me it just sounds robotic as hell and devoid of soul)

I listen to Death Metal and Black Metal too and I can say that of all the times I've seen DT live (videos only :() I cringe at timing mistakes. I definitely understand where you're coming from with wanting the sound to be 'real' more or less - it's why I don't like drum triggers, but I think that mistakes shouldn't be interpreted as emotion.

I really wouldn't cringe at timing mistakes myself, unless it was REALLY off. I just appreciate the "realism" more so than striving to make ever little note perfect. Sometimes trying to make every note perfect gives the impression of being robotic.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 26, 2010, 07:34:50 PM
99% of metal cd's (or any other non lo fi music) you've heard in the past 20 years has been recorded to a click track. I doubt you dislike ALL of them and only like cd's that were recorded as jams.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: bosk1 on June 26, 2010, 09:22:25 PM
There's a bit of soul and emotion to be found in little mistakes here and there. If John Petruci missed one note by a half a second in a solo of his, would you complain about it? I wouldn't, but I can't speak for the others. But I listen to death and black metal, so this is probably why I think this way (Well, except a lot of Tech death that uses clicks because to me it just sounds robotic as hell and devoid of soul)

I listen to Death Metal and Black Metal too and I can say that of all the times I've seen DT live (videos only :() I cringe at timing mistakes. I definitely understand where you're coming from with wanting the sound to be 'real' more or less - it's why I don't like drum triggers, but I think that mistakes shouldn't be interpreted as emotion.

I really wouldn't cringe at timing mistakes myself, unless it was REALLY off. I just appreciate the "realism" more so than striving to make ever little note perfect. Sometimes trying to make every note perfect gives the impression of being robotic.

There's no less realism just because a click track was used in recording.  As Adami said, it is a standard thing in the studio and has been for decades. 
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 26, 2010, 09:31:11 PM
There's a bit of soul and emotion to be found in little mistakes here and there. If John Petruci missed one note by a half a second in a solo of his, would you complain about it? I wouldn't, but I can't speak for the others. But I listen to death and black metal, so this is probably why I think this way (Well, except a lot of Tech death that uses clicks because to me it just sounds robotic as hell and devoid of soul)

I listen to Death Metal and Black Metal too and I can say that of all the times I've seen DT live (videos only :() I cringe at timing mistakes. I definitely understand where you're coming from with wanting the sound to be 'real' more or less - it's why I don't like drum triggers, but I think that mistakes shouldn't be interpreted as emotion.

I really wouldn't cringe at timing mistakes myself, unless it was REALLY off. I just appreciate the "realism" more so than striving to make ever little note perfect. Sometimes trying to make every note perfect gives the impression of being robotic.
You might not, but the musicians do.  That's why they use the click.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Mladen on June 27, 2010, 01:01:13 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_track

Its something used to make sure a drummer's pace is exact throughout a song's recording. For stuff like prog or technical death metal, its very hard to pull off without it. If you don't use a click track, you're more likely going to hear slight mistakes in the drummer through the song (No drummer is perfect, obviously). While its all good and well to keep his pace perfect, I find the small, little mistakes make for a bit more emotion and a type of groove, if you will.

Obviously Mike is a talented drummer, I just frown a bit when I see that someone uses a click track. That's just a small pet peeve of mine.
So it's like a metronome going, huh? I don't see anything wrong with it, it's just there to help the drummer out and make the job easier, so he doesn't make mistakes. If he could concentrate perfectly without the click track, the beat would still be exact same, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: ReaPsTA on June 27, 2010, 03:58:28 PM
I'm helping a friend of mine record his band in their school studio soon. I've already made sure his drummer knows how to record to a metronome. Two unmentioned and very critical reasons why:

 - So the timing of the vocal reverb and delay is in sync with the song.
 - So the guitarists can double and quadruple track their guitars without having to keep in mind the tempo of the song shifting.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 27, 2010, 06:22:12 PM
YES thank you reap. Syncing up effects to the click track is 100000 times easier than typing in a tempo that is shifting around anyway.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: cthrubuoy on June 28, 2010, 02:10:51 AM
Actually, I'm quite disappointed to hear that Mike uses a click. I honestly feel a click track takes away a lot of emotion in a song, so that saddens me. Hopefully Mike decides not to use one in later releases....

Dream Theater are 10 albums in and because you find out MP may use a click you suddenly decide it takes away emotion?

WUT!? He's been doing a pretty good job of it so far.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Lynxo on June 28, 2010, 02:18:39 AM
I know Iron Maiden records all their albums without a click track and everything at the same time (perhaps not solos). Check the special edition of A Matter of Life and Death.

That being said, next to every other metal band you ever heard ALWAYS use a click track in the studio. It doesn't "take away any emotion". It's just like tuning your guitar! A way to polish up your recording, making it sound better.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: reneranucci on June 28, 2010, 09:20:44 PM
Wrong. Out of tune guitars have 100x more emotion.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: ZKX-2099 on June 28, 2010, 09:39:11 PM
Wrong. Out of tune guitars have 100x more emotion.

Thats why people like indie.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Adami on June 28, 2010, 09:41:23 PM
Wrong. Out of tune guitars have 100x more emotion.

This is very true. I once recorded a song with horribly out of tune guitars. Everyone who listened to it cried.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: cthrubuoy on June 29, 2010, 01:10:14 AM
:lol
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: Lynxo on June 29, 2010, 03:29:27 AM
Wrong. Out of tune guitars have 100x more emotion.

This is very true. I once recorded a song with horribly out of tune guitars. Everyone who listened to it cried.
I've even made myself cry by doing this. And the fact that a string had snapped and hit me in the eye had nothing to do with it at all.
Title: Re: Great Fan Q&A With Portnoy
Post by: reneranucci on July 02, 2010, 07:51:17 PM
 :lol