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General => Archive => Dream Theater-related => Topic started by: PlaysLikeMyung on June 19, 2010, 11:53:56 AM
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It's been nearly a full year since BCSL was released :omg:
How has the album aged for you?
Personally, I still find it to be a fantastic album, although I've disliked Wither more and more since it's release
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Personally, I still find it to be a fantastic album, although I've disliked A Rite of Passage more and more since it's release
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Pretty well. I don't listen that much to it nowadays, but it's still a top tier album for me - perhaps 4th place.
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Amazing album. It was not an easy listen, but as always...those not "so-easy-listens" prove to be great. :D
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I'd say pretty well. It's definitely not gotten any worse or old for me one bit. It's still such a solid album.
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Terribly. Not like I heard a lot of stuff that begged a second listen the first time around but I have zero desire to spin it.
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Terribly. Not like I heard a lot of stuff that begged a second listen the first time around but I have zero desire to spin it.
:lol
Not bad at all for me. I still enjoy what I initially enjoyed and some of the parts I didn't care for at first have grown on me.
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It has aged just fine for me. I still have it in my Jeep's 10 disc changer, and it has only rarely come out of there. I will say, though, that I probably spin ANTR and The Count much more than the other songs, not that I don't like them -- it's just how it is.
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I actually like it better than when I first listened to it. A very solid release.
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Holy shit, a year already?! I don't listen to the album in full, but I listen to The Count of Tuscany and The Shattered Fortress all the time still.
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I still love it. I still love Nightmare to Remember like it was my first play.
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I still love TCOT and the rest, I wore out AROP though.
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It is still in the growing stage for me, and gets better on each listen
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I always liked this better than TOT and SC. I don't mind what dT was trying to go for on those 2 albums but this album seemed brighter in more ways than one to me, so I still spin it.
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The tough thing for me about this album is that I never have a desire to put it in to listen to a song or two, which I often feel about all their other albums. So in that sense it's an all-or-nothing for me, and many times I'm not necessarily in the mood to listen to a whole album, so this one stays on the shelf. But when it does get played, I do enjoy it all the way through, which I can't say about their previous two albums.
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I never really listen to any of it anymore, I seriously think I've only listened to TCOT off of it in the last 4 months or something. I'd say after the 'new album smell' wore off, it's actually gone down in my rankings considerably, which apparently noone else has experienced.
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This album is like Awake for me. I know it's incredible and all of the songs are jaw-droppingly good, but I just don't listen to it that much.
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Top 4 for me. I'm in the stage now where I'm kinda "geeze I shouldn't listen so much because I'm afraid I'll get sick of it." But I do.
Nightmare is solid. A Rite Of Passage is one of my favorite Dream Theater "singles." Wither is my favorite ballad by them. Shattered Fortress is awesome. Best Of Times has the best solo ever. And The Count is an awesome closer.
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I didn't care for it all that much when I first listened to it, and I pretty much feel the same way now, unfortunately.
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It has since become my 3rd or 4th favorite DT album, and I still enjoy it just as much as when I first got it, and I still listen to it often. I think its primary strength is that it opens and closes with an epic, even though I agree that Wither is very out of place. It was a 9/10 when I first heard it, and it's still a 9/10 :tup
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Definitely just, Good. :yarr
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Pretty well. I don't listen that much to it nowadays, but it's still a top tier album for me - perhaps 4th place.
This fits me exactly, except I'd move it up to 2nd or 3rd place in my personal rankings.
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I loved it when it first came out, but now it's extremely meh. I don't think I've listened to it all this year.
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i dont think it rates very high honestly. i'm in the minority i guess. the last great album they did was octavarium.. the last 2 have been a little more mainstream perhaps? i don't know if that's the right word.. perhaps conforming to the roadrunner association. the lyrics are less than stellar, the musicianship is high but not as inspired as octavarium or 6 degrees. i think the problem is there are so few songs that if you don't like one or two of the songs well that's a big chunk of the album.
i love the shattered fortress. whither does nothing to me, sounds like staind or something. the best of times is a little corny but it comes from the heart so i can respect that. a nightmare to remember has great parts but it sounds like DT trying to be something else.. a little too metal plus the riffs are way too repetitive. i'll give JLB major props though.. he makes the song work. a rite of passage is a very standard song.. it's not bad at all, but very 'phoned in' plus the middle instrumental section is SO out of place. they needed a section to show off the chops. for that song to work it should have just been standard without the crazy interlude.
now the count of tuscany gets a LOT of praise around here. it's certainly an epic. can't deny that. it does have absolutly epic amazing parts. the intro/outro are fantastic. the verses are pretty good too, perhaps not the most inspired melodies. what really ruins the song is the chorus. the I! (tough guy chant/harmony, you know what i'm talking about) so out of place!!! i just think that and the chorus melody is kinda cringeworthy noting what DT are capable of. it's a very good song.. but not legendary in my book.
better lyrics would have made this album one of the better ones. it doesn't really compare with anything in their catalog except for systematic chaos in tone / lyrical content / musicianship. i think their next record will be more like octavarium/6 degrees. it will definitly be a departure. if not.. well i duno...i'm just hoping.
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I loved it when it first came out, but now it's extremely meh. I don't think I've listened to it all this year.
Yeah, this is what I'd say if I was succinct in any way. :D
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Meh. I like it when I listen to it, but that isn't very often.
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Meh. I like it when I listen to it, but that isn't very often.
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I'd say after the 'new album smell' wore off, it's actually gone down in my rankings considerably.
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I've found that is has aged quite well.
A year after Systematic Chaos came out, it had gone down considerably in my view of it. BC&SL on the other hand is pretty much where it was when it first came out.
I still listen to songs from it pretty regularly.
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I still listen to TCOT and Shattered Fortress. A while ago I was really into the best of times, but its gone now (sadly), so yeah...aged well, overall.
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I said "Pretty well". I was at the nearby laundry mat doing some laundry (Duh) and during my time there washing and drying, I listened to the entirety of BC&SL and found it VERY enjoyable. It's held up quite well, and found the songs still fresh.
-Marc.
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I loved it when it first came out, but now it's extremely meh. I don't think I've listened to it all this year.
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Meh. I like it when I listen to it, but that isn't very often.
This... to some degree. I feel the album is way too inconsistent. For example, parts of ANTR, most of TBOT and all of TCOT are absolutely amazing. The rest ranges from OK to horrible.
TSF doesn't really do much for me anymore, even though I loved it the first time I listened to it (OH WOW THEY USED THAT RIFF THATS SO COOL!), Wither is an ok song but isn't really noteworthy..... AROP is pretty bad and I never was a big fan of the song to begin with. The last half of ANTR is completely unnecessary and forgettable.
With all that said... I'm gonna spin it again on June 23. Its an OK album, but like its two predecessors, it is too inconsistent, even though all three albums (Octavarium, Systematic Chaos, and BCSL) all have some of the best songs DT have put out (8VM, ITPOEpt1, TCOT....)
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It's aged OK for me. Songs 3-6 are really enjoyable for me. I dislike ANTR more now. And AROP has just become irrelevant, not much to like or dislike.
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Bad. Because of several elements in many songs that I dislike, the only one I listen to semi-regularly is The Count.
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I've overplayed it way too much. I have played ANTR over 120 times according to my itunes. But overall the atm i like it more than the day it came out, it has just grown on me.
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A Nightmare to Remember - Don't listen to this as much. Even the Peaceful Sedation part got overplayed in my household.
A Rite of Passage - Didn't like it then, didn't like it now.
Wither - Gets the occasional spin, and when I do, I like it. This is a top 10 Dream Theater song, though.
The Shattered Fortress - Just as interesting as it was when I first heard it (decent, but that's it)
The Best of Times - I like certain parts a tad more, but all of the parts I did like have grown tired
The Count of Tuscany - The introduction is still gorgeous and incredible. I can't handle much of the vocal parts except for the great acoustic ending.
Back then: 8/10
Now: 7/10
This is my 3rd least favorite album of theirs, though.
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I still dig it; the last three songs get played much more than the first three. I still like "A Nightmare to Remember," but it can be difficult to dedicate 16+ minutes to a song when the second half of the song isn't nearly as good as the first half. Sometimes, I will skip to something else once the mellow middle section ends and the soloing starts.
Overall, it is probably my 6th favorite DT studio album.
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It's not cracking the top half of my DT line-up. TCoT is still great, but each of the other songs has lost some their shine, particularly TSF, ARoP, and the second half of ANtR.
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A Nightmare to remember - I think this is the one I play the most, it's just a great song all around. The part with MP singing grew on me a lot, I enjoy it because it's so fun. The instrumental section after MP's bit is awesome.
A Rite of passage - It got a bit boring, but it's pretty cool anyway. The chorus is still catchy, and JP's guitar work is exceptional.
Wither - Used to be my least favorite back when the album came out, but now it's certainly one of my favorites. A wonderful ballad with a great performance by James LaBrie.
The Shattered fortress - Keeps me interested for the first couple of minutes, but from the moment Jordan kicks in with his never-ending solo, the song goes horribly downhill. Even the Responsible part isn't as great as I originally thought.
The Best of time - Great one, grew on me as well. So emotional, with some beautiful bits, especially the string section in the 6th minute. Needless to say, Petrucci rocks in the last couple of minutes. An excellent song all around.
The Count of Tuscany - I got a bit tired of the second half, but the song is still the best on the album. I love the faster driving riff starting before ''Several years ago''. I still laugh at some of the words, but what can you do, that's how their lyrics are now.
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I remember I thought it could be my new #2 favourite DT album, now it's definitely fallen down but I still like it a lot and consider it a very strong album. And A Nightmare to Remember and The Shattered Fortress still rock just as much as they did in the beginning.
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Was disappointed at first and I still am. Second worst DT album.
Yeah I know you guys disagree, I don't like it don't bug me about it >_>
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Just as good as when I first listened, which is excellent, and my #3 DT album. None of the options seem to really fit that though, as it's not better than when I first listened, but "pretty well" just seems a bit tame. "Very well" would be my real answer.
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Pretty damn well. Was actually listening to it today at work and it was a great listen, very fresh. TBOT is the only part that lets it down IMO. It's okay but nothing too great.
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Pretty damn well. Was actually listening to it today at work and it was a great listen, very fresh. AROP is the only part that lets it down IMO. It's okay but nothing too great.
Fixed for me.
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Pretty damn well. Was actually listening to it today at work and it was a great listen, very fresh. AROP is the only part that lets it down IMO. It's okay but nothing too great.
Fixed for me.
That's cool, I actually found that quite catchy and enjoyable. Good stuff.
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I think it has aged well for me. But unlike most of their albums, my opinions on the individual songs really hasn't changed much. I think this album has more of a "what-you-see-is-what-you-get" feel in that there isn't a whole lot that clicked at some point down the road. It all either clicked or didn't fairly quickly and has stayed that way. That's a bit different for DT, but that's fine. Song by song:
-A Nightmare To Remember: About as flawless as it gets. Really, really good song on every level. Great structure. Great instrumentation. Great singing. Great lyrics. The experiment of Mike singing a whole verse in a gruff but now growly way absolutely works. The eery Beautiful Agony section is a perfect counterpoint to the heaviness of the rest of the song and is both soothing and unsettling at the same time. Overall, just a terrific song. Love it.
-A Right Of Passage: A fun, interesting song. Not overly complex, but it's a fun listen. Structurally and in terms of feel, it reminds me a lot of Constant Motion, but doesn't feel quite as strong. Still a good song.
-Wither: Great choice for a single. I doubt I would often specifically want to listen to the album for this song, but I'm glad they did it.
-The Shattered Fortress: I really love it most of the way through up until the big Repentence reprise through the "take all of me" reprise, which don't work for me, but then I live it again after that. Part of me wishes there was more original material. Part of me loves the originality of them taking so many bits of the earlier songs, standing them on their ear, and making them even better in very unexpected ways. So, overall, there are some parts of the song that don't work for me, but overall, I like it a lot.
-The Best Of Times: Some of DT's more emotional, very personal songs really hit me (such as A Change Of Seasons, Take Away My Pain, Disappear, and Vacant). But for some reason, even though I feel what Mike is saying when I really focus on the words, this song just doesn't really connect with me. Definitely my least favorite on the album. Not that it's bad, but again, I just don't connect with it for some reason.
-The Count Of Tuscany: Overall, I really like it. But although I know I'm in the minority on this one, the volume swell instrumental section really drags for me, and I wish it either wasn't there or was a lot shorter. To me, it doesn't add to the song at all, and is so long that instead of feeling like a nice interlude, it kills the momentum of the song for me. But otherwise, this is a terrific song. This and ANTR are perhaps the two best examples of JP's more narrative lyrical style really working. The verses really remind me of Lucretia, and while that isn't a bad thing by any stretch, it's a bit distracting when I start hearing Dave Mustaine in my mind instead of James. :lol
I know a lot of peple commented when this first came out that it was such a "return to form" that people were ranking it in their top 3 DT albums, and so on. As much as I like it, I wouldn't go that far. But it is still a great album, and it doesn't need to be a "return to form" to be great. A year after it's release, I realy enjoy it and still think it is a very solid offering.
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It's held up pretty well for me. ANTR is great (except for the CM vocals), AROP is still good (regardless of all the hate it gets), Wither is just a really cool ballad, TSF is a great closer to the TSS, TBOT is a cool tribute but just an ok song (outro is the best), TCOT is fantastic and a great album closer.
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It's pretty weak. The last 2 songs have some incredible moments, as well as some incredibly ridiculous moments. The first four are at best reincarnations of their previous works and at worst just plain stupid. Why do they want to fit in with the modern metal scene so much? I can hope to god Mike won't bring back influences from Avenged Sevenfold for the next album....
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My main problem with BC&SL is that it should be more than 6 songs. DT has a thing lately about creating long songs. Sure, Octavarium the song was great from start to finish, but it's hard to create a great long like that. In BC&SL, their long songs have great moments but mediocre moments too. And, as a result, that leaves us with no great songs. When you keep a song shorter, you have a better chance of it being great and not watered down with mediocre moments. Like Wither. Very good song. The only one on the album that's solid from start to finish, if you ask me.
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The album has aged nicely for me, I voted "pretty well". ANTR is almost as ethereal as when I first heard it, it's still a top 5 DT song to me. AROP only gets played once in a while, but it is a solid song (minus that certain part in the instrumental passage). Wither is the least played song because I've always preferred more 'busy' songs over ballads. TSF.. before I moved I played this on my brothers 7 string at least a couple times a week. I still throw it on sometimes. TCOT lost some of its flair since I first heard it, though it's still one of DT's best epics and a brilliant closer to the album.
if I were rating this album when I first heard it compared to now, it was 9/10 before and 8/10 now.
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My main problem with BC&SL is that it should be more than 6 songs. DT has a thing lately about creating long songs. Sure, Octavarium the song was great from start to finish, but it's hard to create a great long like that. In BC&SL, their long songs have great moments but mediocre moments too. And, as a result, that leaves us with no great songs. When you keep a song shorter, you have a better chance of it being great and not watered down with mediocre moments. Like Wither. Very good song. The only one on the album that's solid from start to finish, if you ask me.
Interesting viewpoint, and one that has a lot of merit on the surface (meaning, without considering how much each individual likes each song). When you think about it, if you are bothered by the Portnoy singing section in ANTR to where it disrupts your overall enjoyment of the song and/or TCOT's lyrics, two of the most oft-criticized things on the album, that is a good chunk of the album. I doubt DT will make a habit out of having only six songs per record, but it does have leave a smaller margin for error, when it comes down to how much fans like it on a per song basis.
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To add to Mebert's thoughts I personally think if they had 'Hell's Kitchen'd' the middle section of ANTR they would've had absolute gold on their hands.
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I still listen to some of the songs. The Shattered Fortress being the most played while The Best Of Times is the least. I feel TSF is the best song on the album with A Nightmare To Remember a close second. I'd put TCOT up there but the lyrics bring it down a lot. Musically it's amazing.
Dream Theater are great but they make odd decisions. The lyric rule being one, and this album proves that needs to be thrown out.
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To add to Mebert's thoughts I personally think if they had 'Hell's Kitchen'd' the middle section of ANTR they would've had absolute gold on their hands.
Gold, I'm telling you. As it is now, if the song comes up for me, or if I'm listening to the album, I just skip straight to Wither after the "Beautiful Agony" section.
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ANTR - Still really like it although it does drag a little after the middle section.
AROP - Rarely ever listen to it unless I'm listening to the album as a whole.
Wither - Has actually grown on me, one of my fave DT ballads.
TSF - Meh, apart from Repentance it's the worst AA suite song.
TBOT - Mega meh, I just find it boring tbh.
TCOT - Ok, despite the crappy lyrics, I love it unashamedly...still.
Overall: at the time I rated it 4.5/5 (Superb) on Sputnikmusic and now I rate it 4/5 (Excellent). It is good but it hasn't got any better, that's for sure. Probably rests about 5th in my DT album rankings behind IAW, Awake, SFAM and ToT.
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ANTR - Awesome.
AROP - It's been meh from day one.
Wither - Pretty good song.
TSF - Pretty good song. My third favorite in the suite behing TGP and Repentance.
TBOT - Decent song. I still don't like the violin but it has one of my very favorite guitar solos ever.
TCOT - :letam: :2metal: :metal
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Still can't get over the lyrics. I mean, damn they suck. Across the board.
Only reason why it's not a top 5 album for me. Now it's a bottom-dweller along with Train Of Thought.
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Still can't get over the lyrics. I mean, damn they suck. Across the board.
Still can't get over your opinion. I mean, damn it sucks. Across the board.
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I still consider Dream Theater one of my favorite bands, but it's been a long time since they did anything that really excited me. SFAM blew my mind, and is still one of my favorites, but every album since then feels like they're now trying too hard to be prog, trying too hard to be metal, trying too hard to be... something. Their albums used to be amazing because they felt genuine. They weren't trying to be anything, it's just how they were.
Anyway, I think I've listened to the disc of covers more than the actual album.
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It's not aged amazingly well for me but I still listen to a few of the songs every now and again. Which is a lot more than I can say for Systematic Chaos.
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I still enjoy the album, though I have web too busy with finding new music as of late to listen to it.
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The only songs I make an effort to listen to anymore are TCOT and ANTR so meh for me (I didn't think it was that good when I first heard it anyway)
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It's aged OK for me. Songs 3-6 are really enjoyable for me. I dislike ANTR more now. And AROP has just become irrelevant, not much to like or dislike.
Similar to my views. AROP is listenable only for JP's face-annihilating solo; even the chorus doesn't seem to be as catchy as I once thought. I still think TCOT absolutely rules and that ANTR is a very wasted opportunity. I still enjoy TSF despite its flaws (INVENTORY!!), and I still appreciate TBOT.
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Still can't get over the lyrics. I mean, damn they suck. Across the board.
Still can't get over your opinion. I mean, damn it sucks. Across the board.
Still can't get over your attitude. I mean, damn it sucks. Across the board.
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I would say somewhere in between of 'good' and 'meh'.
Compared to other DT-albums, i don't really have much urge to listen to it, and when i look at the playlist, ANTR is probably the only song i would rank very high compared to the other DT-stuff.
The album isn't bad at all, but when the majority of songs (in this case 4 out of 6, with 1 being almost 10) are 14-15 minutes long, the album just gets a bit hard to listen to IMO.
I still prefer a bit more variety length-wise, if i would rank this among the other DT-albums, it would probably end up as nr6-7 or so, with the top3 being: 6DOIT, SFAM and Awake.
Song-wise, i would sum up the album like this:
A Nightmare to Remember - still fantastic. I love these type of songs, the atmospheric build-up, i don't even care about the MP singing-part. :P
A Rite of Passage - Still very good, but compared to other DT-songs that has a bit of the same structure/length/sound, it gets lost in the shadow of songs like Panic Attack and Under a Glass Moon.
Wither - I disliked this song when i first heard it, and i still do. One of the 'worst' DT-songs IMO.
The Shattered Fortress - Sums up the cycle pretty well, and contains probably the best riffs from all the earlier songs.
However, a collection of mostly old riffs doesn't make a new album awesome.
Solid overall.
The Best of Times - I really liked this one back when the album came out, and i still do.
Some fantastic parts, the solo for example.
However, i do think it drags a bit, and im not sure anymore if it would beat simular DT-songs.
The Count of Tuscany - I see a lot of people have praised this song a lot, personally i like it, but there was no "instant love" or something.
It's still good, but its not comparable to their other epics.
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To me, the album is still notable for two songs, TBOT & TCOT. Musically, TCOT is one of my favorite DT tunes.
.. ANTR is a very wasted opportunity...
I agree. I wish I liked it more. There's a lot going on, but I feel somewhat hollow after listening to it.
I feel the same way I did when it came out. It's OK. I was a little disappointed. Where I thought SC was a big exhale, not too serious, album after the climactic Score performance, I was expecting a DT masterpiece, a sort of kick off to the next chapter of DT. And this clearly wasn't it. There's still a lot to like, and I'm hopeful for better things on the next album. This short tour notwithstanding, I believe this is a much needed break for the band.
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It's still pretty damn good, so I voted "Pretty well."
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Being my first 'new' DT album, it holds a special place. I like most of the songs except for the singles. I don't play those often. My biggest gripe isn't one that DT did necessarily, but the album is still a bit 'loud' Better than SC though
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I still dig it; the last three songs get played much more than the first three. I still like "A Nightmare to Remember," but it can be difficult to dedicate 16+ minutes to a song when the second half of the song isn't nearly as good as the first half. Sometimes, I will skip to something else once the mellow middle section ends and the soloing starts.
Overall, it is probably my 6th favorite DT studio album.
This, except it's my 4-5th favorite.
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If I recall, my initial feelings were mixed. I liked ANTR, AROP, and Wither pretty well from the outset. I really didn't like TSF at all at first, and TBOT was (and remains) a very big letdown for me. By the time I reached TCoT, I was more or less satisfied, but not really excited about much of anything on the album. However, hearing The Count of Tuscany for the first time was indescribable. I was very, very pleased with this song and ending the album on such a high note considerably inflated my opinion of it as a whole for a while, I think.
Now, I rank the album near the middle of DT's discography. ANTR drags during the solo sections. AROP and Wither are decent, but not that interesting after several listens. TSF's second guitar solo is awesome, but that's the only thing I really take away from it. TBOT is all right musically, but I cannot get past the lyrics, which is rare for me. It's too bad it had to happen with this song, given its obvious importance to Portnoy. I maintain that TCoT is a great song overall, definitely in my DT top 20. But the verses and chorus are the weakest part of the track IMO, and while they were fun at first, haven't aged as well as the rest.
Still a solid album, even though I just got done listing all of my gripes with it. I expect that DT's future releases will be around the same level of quality.
-J
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TCOT has aged well for me, it's still one of my favourite DT songs. Same for Wither, it's still my second favourite song on the album. TSF and ANTR remained on their positions as well, and I still feel meh about AROP. TBOT has gone from "good" to "disappointing"; the first few minutes are very good, but then it goes down, and JP's solo can't really save it. It's kinda impressive, but it doesn't touch me the way LTL's and Voices's guitar solos do.
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There seems to be no "okay" or "fine" on the poll, so I went with "meh".
I still like the album, but it has not improved over time. It hasn't gone down that much in how much I like it, it just sort of stays in the middle, which is how I felt about it from the beginning.
The Count still hasn't clicked for me on the level that it has for everyone else, and I've grown a bit more tired of A Nightmare to Remember, but it sill remains my favourite off the album. TSF is still great, AROP and Wither are still good, and TBOT is still not very interesting.
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I played the album on Wednesday because it was one year to the day since it was released
I still find it :metal , with the exception of Wither, which honestly just bores me
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It has aged pretty good with me. It's definitely many notches above SC and a step in the right direction.
I love all of the songs musically and hope to see some lyrical improvement. Imagine TCOT with great lyrics. It would be top 3 song material.
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it has aged just fine for me. i enjoy every track just as much as i did before. :tup
i hope Portnoy will take some influence from working with Transatlantic and maybe DT will do a more concept album again, with multiple themes, riffs and melodies reprised and such. Maybe an album that is actually UNDER 70 minutes. we'll see... :corn
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it has aged just fine for me. i enjoy every track just as much as i did before. :tup
i hope Portnoy will take some influence from working with Transatlantic and maybe DT will do a more concept album again, with multiple themes, riffs and melodies reprised and such. Maybe an album that is actually UNDER 70 minutes. we'll see... :corn
I want them to still use the 80 minute CD potential, but just make shorter songs.
Why would you want less than 70 minutes?
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it has aged just fine for me. i enjoy every track just as much as i did before. :tup
i hope Portnoy will take some influence from working with Transatlantic and maybe DT will do a more concept album again, with multiple themes, riffs and melodies reprised and such. Maybe an album that is actually UNDER 70 minutes. we'll see... :corn
I want them to still use the 80 minute CD potential, but just make shorter songs.
Why would you want less than 70 minutes?
well, imagine BC&SL without AROP or Wither
i like both songs, but i dont quite listen to 'em every time
it'd be a modern-day Tales From Topographic Oceans (whether good or bad...)
point is, if they werent so worried about filling the whole 80 minutes, we'd be getting more masterpieces, than 'almost masterpieces'
cause they get sooo close every time
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it has aged just fine for me. i enjoy every track just as much as i did before. :tup
i hope Portnoy will take some influence from working with Transatlantic and maybe DT will do a more concept album again, with multiple themes, riffs and melodies reprised and such. Maybe an album that is actually UNDER 70 minutes. we'll see... :corn
I want them to still use the 80 minute CD potential, but just make shorter songs.
Why would you want less than 70 minutes?
Because anything over an hour or so almost always leads to filler material. I've rarely heard an album that actually warrants that length, especially newer DT.
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It's aged alright. I still have a problem with the lyrics and their cheesiness though. It's still a good listen though. My song rankings would be something like
Wither
The Count Of Tuscany
A Rite of Passage
A Nightmare To Remember
The Shattered Fortress
The Best of Times
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Wow, interesting ranking, never seen anyone say something similar.
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fail ranking is fail :P
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I'm going with good. I like half of the album ANTR, Wither, TSF while ARoP, TBoT and TCoT are meh.
Likes
ANTR - Immediately liked on first listen and its stayed that way. I admit it can be cut shorter but I don't mind it anymore.
Wither - great vocals and fits really well on the album because all the songs are really long. One of the best of DT's short songs.
TSF - has really grown on me I didn't like it initially because of the recycled parts from old songs. I wanted new material. I love the guitar on the song especially the solo its a great final song to end the suite.
Dislikes
ARoP - Never enjoyed this song from the beginning, the guitar riff is boring to me and I have no interest in the lyrics
TBoT - The guitar solo is great but the whole tribute thing is weird to crank up on the stereo on a regular basis. Its really sad and it feels out of place to me.
TCoT - The song doesn't flow for me and it needs to do that because its one of the "epic" long songs. I'm probably one of the few people who dislike this song. Its very similar to Octavarium which I don't care for either.
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I liked it when it first came out but it's gotten better for me in the last year. TCOT is my favorite; I'm obsessed with that song. I also love Nightmare, just an amazing song. I'm a bit tired of AROP because I listened to it the most when it was released. The rest of the songs are ok, but I'm not crazy about them.
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everything will be better when you've appreciated for one year.
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Except corpses.
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Especially corpses.
FTFY
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I just have to say that I am listening to BCSL right now in honor of the one year anniversary (I know, a little late), and I have to say TCOT is one of the best songs in their latter catalog, and I'm really glad I got to see it live last year. :metal
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Hasn't changed much at all.
Wither remains an excellent song.
TCOT and A Rite of Passage remain very good songs.
Shattered Fortress was a very good song, but is now a pretty good song.
Best of Times and A Nightmare to Remember, I've possibly listened to five times between them.
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One word describes a lot of DT's recent material: potential. That aside, BC&SL has aged fairly well. I believe it sits about sixth or so on my rankings-ish.
ANTR - I love blaring this song. It's a song full of wonderful ideas, but gets really brought down by some sections unfortunately.
AROP - Hypnotizing guitar work thrown around this song (chorus, second verse, solo). Otherwise, pretty mediocre.
Wither - Beautifully constructed. Very tasteful.
TSF - Potential. I love "Responsible" and TGP Reprise, but damn, this song just didn't live up to what it could have been.
TBOT - Potential. Contains one of JP's best guitar solos. *eargasm*
TCOT - A true gem! I don't have much beef with this song honestly. Lyrics are without a doubt below par, but for me it still remains a top-tier DT song. :hefdaddy
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It has aged brilliantly for me, the first couple of weeks I liked it but felt really let down, then it grew on me. Now I would rate TSF and TCOS amongst my top DT songs, ANTR is utterly bloody awesome, Wither I still could take or leave (but the live video made me like it a little more by linking it with all the brilliant gig experiences I've had seeing DT). TBOT is pretty good with a fantastically good guitar solo and while AROP is okay, it has probably aged the worst, I still find it really obvious and contrived and stilted in parts and feel zero emotional connection.
In general I'd rate it as a really, really great album.
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TCOS
The Count of Seasons?
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TCOS
The Count of Seasons?
The Caress of Steel?
-Marc.
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Oh you guys
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TCOS
The Count of Seasons?
LET ME INTRODUCE
LIVE ON
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TCOS
The Count of Seasons?
LET ME INTRODUCE
LIVE ON
:metal
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I think the album has aged quite well. I listened to it a few days ago and I still found myself very much enjoying it.
SC, by way of contrast, aged terribly, in my opinion.
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The Mike portnoy growl part really isn't that bad. It Could've been way better had the delivery or rhythm of it had been different.
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The Mike portnoy growl part really isn't that bad. It Could've been way better had the delivery or rhythm of it had been different.
Not a growl, though...
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Just listened to BC&SL for the first time in awhile. I listened to all the DT albums in order in preperation for seeing them Sunday. WHen I first got BC&SL I really liked it. It easily became my third favorite album behind I&W and Awake. I still to this day think it is up there. I said it got better, but it really stayed the same as it was always high on my list of DT albums.
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The "growl"y part would have been better if the lyrics weren't so uplifiting. "Everything turned out fine" isn't heavy enough to yell. The song should have ended on a real downer.
"By the grace of god above, everyone got aids....RAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!"
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Except corpses.
I dunno, I think these guys appreciate corpses.
https://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=41086
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"By the grace of god above, everyone got aids....RAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!"
What kind of hospital were they at?
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Man, even when I haven't heard it for a while, the opening guitar melody from The Best Of Times still pops into my head occasionally. So awesome.
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The "growl"y part would have been better if the lyrics weren't so uplifiting. "Everything turned out fine" isn't heavy enough to yell. The song should have ended on a real downer.
"By the grace of god above, everyone got aids....RAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!"
:rollin
I also hate the growled "a spaceman, that's what they say I am" by BTBAM.
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:facepalm: Only on the Internet can you find real people who legitimately think that section of lyrics is somehow uplifting.
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:facepalm: Only on the Internet can you find real people who legitimately think that section of lyrics is somehow uplifting.
Miracles and graces of god is uplifting enough.
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I don't understand why they didn't put something a bit darker in that part, like Mike could've growled about how traumatic the experience was, or something about being to close to death. "BY THE GRACE OF GOD ABOVE, EVERYONE SURVIVED, GRRRRRRRRRRR" just doesn't work.
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Meh, I'll review it since everyone else is.
A Nightmare to Remember: Great idea, meh execution. This song had a lot more potential than it shows, for reasons already listed above. The Peaceful Sedation section is really cool though. The metal riffs are alright, but just aren't really memorable. Decent song overall though.
A Rite of Passage: Didn't care for this one, the riffs bore me and its a few minutes longer than needed.
Wither: The better of the two singles, in my opinion. Perfect length for what it does.
The Shattered Fortress: Yes, its basically a rehash of the rest of the suite, but I really like the suite so I don't mind. I'd like it more if it was original, but I still really like it.
The Best of Times: Dream Theater should probably use a violin (At least I think that's what it is >.>) more often, because it sounds awesome here. The rest of the song is really cool, but is it just me or does part of this song sound like The Ministry of Lost Souls? I really like that song, so that doesn't bother me though. Petrucci has an awesome guitar solo too.
The Count of Tuscany: Not as amazing as everyone says, but really good nonetheless. Obviously the synth section is amazing, no doubt about it, but the song isn't really consistent enough. There are mind-blowing sections, and sections that are meh. Overall though, there's more good than bad to be had and a top 25 song for sure, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near Octavarium.
Overall: Pretty good, 8/10 worthy. But still, I think this album had potential to be a lot better, but I'll take it over Systematic Chaos any day of the week.
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I wasn't expecting you to an 8/10 based on your review, maybe 6?
Also, it's a Cello.
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No it's definitely a violin.
And yeah, I wasn't expecting an 8/10 either, especially after you somewhat slagged off every song. :lol
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Yeah, it's a violin.
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I wasn't expecting you to an 8/10 based on your review, maybe 6?
Also, it's a Cello.
No it's definitely a violin.
And yeah, I wasn't expecting an 8/10 either, especially after you somewhat slagged off every song. :lol
Eh, I rate it based on how I "feel" after the album is over, rather than averaging each song out. Plus it was a lot better than SC so that's probably why I gave it an 8. Plus, the second half of Black Clouds is far superior to the first half. And I'm a cynic, so I'm probably going to point out the bad parts more than I am the good parts :P
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*throws in her 2 cents* I really don't think it's a violin... sounds more like a viola or cello. Probably a cello, but definitely not a violin.
The whole opening part of TBOT actually kinda bores me, the first time I heard the guitar enter at 2:45 gave me proper chills though. Not one of my favourite DT songs, but it's good and the solo is utterly epic and one of my top DT solos... reminds me of Sonic music for some reason though, which is no bad thing.
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It definitely IS a violin. It is Jerry Goodman, a legendary violinist who has played in rock/fusion groups such as Mahavishnu Orchestra and the Dixie Dregs. He played on The Best of Times, as well as on two songs from the covers disc (Odyssey and Lark's Tongues in Aspic Pt. 2).
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Whatever it is, more of it needs to be used. Hell, more metal could use violins.
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DT should get Jean-Luc Ponty to do some guest spots on their next album
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DT should get Jean-Luc Ponty to do some guest spots on their next album
HELLA-YES!!!
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DT should get Jean-Luc Ponty to do some guest spots on their next album
:metal
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It definitely IS a violin. It is Jerry Goodman, a legendary violinist who has played in rock/fusion groups such as Mahavishnu Orchestra and the Dixie Dregs. He played on The Best of Times, as well as on two songs from the covers disc (Odyssey and Lark's Tongues in Aspic Pt. 2).
All of this.
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I like the record a little bit more. Just recently, I was converted on "THe Count of Tuscany." I love that song now. I like Rite of Passage (although I prefer the edit). Overall, given my new enjoyment of Count, I like the record BETTER, but I still don't think very highly of it.
It's better than Systematic Chaos, but that's about it and that doesn't say much.
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I can't believe we've had this album for over a year now and I just now realized it is a concept album. Not sure why the theme is not made more obvious, but I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that BCSL is about cannibalism. The hints and nuggets abound. Here is a short summary:
A Nightmare to Remember: The opening lyrics give us a hint that the song is about something funny that soon turned to tragedy. Let's face it, every time cannibalism is brought up in this day and age, it is treated as a joke. But what began as laughter so soon would turn to pain...as the flesh was being gnawed from their very bones! :omg: The guests quickly left the wedding as the uninvited stranger began consuming the bride right before the wedding guests' very eyes! (so we said goodbye to the glowing (probably because she was just freshly over broiled and was glowing from the heat) bride) Then the song's protagonist finds himself lying on a table, obviously as the next meal. Why else would he be on the table? Duh. We next hear about a faceless man. Obviously, this refers to Hannibal Lechter wearing his safety mask so his face cannot be seen. Anyhow, this one should be fairly obvious now, so no point beating it into the ground.
A Right of Passage: General information about the secret rituals practiced by those secretive cannibals.
Wither: This was what clinched it for me. Now we know we aren't dealing with a single cannibal as discussed in TCOT, but a female member of royalty who also engaged in such practices. I think the lyric, "But this Baroness consumes me" says it all.
The Shattered Fortress: The cannibals regret what they have become and try to make amends, only to realize that to deny their true urge to be a cannibal is impossible. The song ends with an unexpected twist as they reach out to the hungry and try to make them into cannibals by cutting off their own hands and feeding them to these hungry people: "I am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out for help. I want my hand to be there."
The Best of Times: This one is a little bit more of a challenge to figure out how it fits in. I haven't completely figured it out yet, but I think it's just meant to show how cannibalism is passed down through the generations as a son reflects back fondly on how his father brought him up to embrace the cannibalistic lifestyle (and perhaps the boy now thinks ahead to how he will marinate and devour his dad after his dad's passing).
The Count of Tuscany: "Cannibal curator," drinking the wine made from the dead soldiers, etc. This is obviously about Hannibal's family, bringing the album full circle back to Hannibal eating the bride in the first song and him wanting JP to tell the world about him, which DT obviously dedicated the entire album to.
There you have it. Please feel free to add in any nuggest I missed. I have to say, while this is perhaps one of the most bizarre album concepts DT have come up with to date, knowing and understanding the underlying concept has made the album even more enjoyable to me.
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I love you bosk
:heart
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Every album is a concept album. You just have to overanalyze it enough.
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Bosk wins the thread. I came in here to correct the violin confusion but alas, I'm too late. But it does say so it the booklet.
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The album def has some good stuff on it. It also has some mediocre stuff, and most of all some unfulfilled potential.
ANRT: My impression of this song has been constantly changing. At first I really dug it, then I got bored with it, and now I'm back to really liking it. The section right after the opening heavy section is gold. There are def things to look forward to when I turn on this track. I've mentioned that I don't really like new-age production, but for this song it really works! If this song were produced in 1992, it would be not nearly as good.
AROP: Purely mediocre. Cool instrumental section, but not much else going for it. "Turn the key..." sounds so cheesy and out of place. Also, the transition into the very last chorus after the instrumental section is the most abrupt transition in DT history.
Wither: The drums really punch in this track. It's simple, to the point, and melodic. It works.
The Shattered Fortress: Not quite as good as Glass Prison or This Dying Soul, but def a great track. The Root of All Evil riff is improved by a different drum pattern and a slightly diff guitar tone and the solo of that part is JP's best in a long while. Also, the "I am responsible..." part at the end is very good.
The Best of Times: The tone of this track is what gets me every time. It's as close to the sound/style of Images and Words as the band has come since 2002. Hell, Portnoy even throws in a pseudo- Under a Glass Moon drum pattern. JP goes with a higher pitched sound reminiscent of his early days, and doesn't stick to power chords as has been his tendency of late. A highlight of the album.
Count of Tuscany: When I listened to the first three minutes of this track for the first time, I thought TCOT would be the best DT song ever. Literally. Little did I know that they would abandon the melodic, progressive sound of the first three minutes and turn the song into an uninteresting power chord fest, lacking melody and any other sort of inspiration. To this day I imagine would could have been, had the track progressed in a more favorable (to me) direction. Also, the long JR/JP interlude is boring and lacks any sort of development. Nevertheless, the first three minutes tell me that DT still has the ability to make amazing stuff.
Overall: 7.5/10 where Awake is 10/10 and Systematic Chaos is 7/10
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I have to say that I am really impressed with Black Clouds. I loved it for a long while and then naturally gave it some time. But since I started to listen to it again, I find it that I still love many of the tracks I initially did and I started to love some others. I must say I like all the tracks in there, great album to hear as a whole, at the same time, i can just play ANTR or TCOT by themselves and it will still be great. I don't really like rating, but the album would probably rank in the top 6 albums.
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Off-topic guys, this thread is about the cannibalism concept.
:neverusethis:
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*concept*
:hefdaddy
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Whatever it is, more of it needs to be used. Hell, more metal could use violins.
You must love the early work of At The Gates then . . .
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The best thing this album has is The Count of Tuscany
SUCKING ON HIS PIPE!!!
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Let me introduce...
MY BRUTHA!
(https://georgiastateguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/hulk_hogan_-_terry_bolea_153-365x450.jpg)
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The ending section to The Count of Tuscany still blows my mind every time.
and :lol dtvt
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I'VE BEEN A GENTLEMEN
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(https://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1848/sscountoftuscany.jpg)
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When I first popped this CD in my car after buying it I almost smileed during the intro to ANTR, the middle section almost made me do round #2. AROP was instantly a "I don't like this" for me, and Wither and TSF were instant classics. I was OK with TBOT, I knew what it was about, but something struck me as odd. But TCOT really disappointed me because it was so hyped as being the new "epic" to rival their others.
Between then and now, I still like everything in ANTR up to when they break out the solos, I just don't like the wankery. I am a large fan of AROP and listen to it regularly, and Wither and TSF are still amazing songs to listen to. I now find TBOT to be an extrodinary song, it is beautiful yet powerful. But the biggest change is over TCOT. I LOVE this song. It is a top 8 song for me for sure, and could be anywhere between 3-8 on any given day. The start is so wonderful and sends shivers down my spine, the middle section is amazing, heck, I don't even mind the lyrics. Then the "atmosperic section" kicks in and this is where I start to drool. And the acoustic ending is some of the best stuff DT has ever written in my opinion, and if I am in a rush and want to listen to the ending I will skip ahead just to listen to that epic ending.
All in all, this album is better for me than when I first bought it, and I will now rate it a 8.5/10
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I can't believe we've had this album for over a year now and I just now realized it is a concept album. Not sure why the theme is not made more obvious, but I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt that BCSL is about cannibalism. The hints and nuggets abound. Here is a short summary:
A Nightmare to Remember: The opening lyrics give us a hint that the song is about something funny that soon turned to tragedy. Let's face it, every time cannibalism is brought up in this day and age, it is treated as a joke. But what began as laughter so soon would turn to pain...as the flesh was being gnawed from their very bones! :omg: The guests quickly left the wedding as the uninvited stranger began consuming the bride right before the wedding guests' very eyes! (so we said goodbye to the glowing (probably because she was just freshly over broiled and was glowing from the heat) bride) Then the song's protagonist finds himself lying on a table, obviously as the next meal. Why else would he be on the table? Duh. We next hear about a faceless man. Obviously, this refers to Hannibal Lechter wearing his safety mask so his face cannot be seen. Anyhow, this one should be fairly obvious now, so no point beating it into the ground.
A Right of Passage: General information about the secret rituals practiced by those secretive cannibals.
Wither: This was what clinched it for me. Now we know we aren't dealing with a single cannibal as discussed in TCOT, but a female member of royalty who also engaged in such practices. I think the lyric, "But this Baroness consumes me" says it all.
The Shattered Fortress: The cannibals regret what they have become and try to make amends, only to realize that to deny their true urge to be a cannibal is impossible. The song ends with an unexpected twist as they reach out to the hungry and try to make them into cannibals by cutting off their own hands and feeding them to these hungry people: "I am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out for help. I want my hand to be there."
The Best of Times: This one is a little bit more of a challenge to figure out how it fits in. I haven't completely figured it out yet, but I think it's just meant to show how cannibalism is passed down through the generations as a son reflects back fondly on how his father brought him up to embrace the cannibalistic lifestyle (and perhaps the boy now thinks ahead to how he will marinate and devour his dad after his dad's passing).
The Count of Tuscany: "Cannibal curator," drinking the wine made from the dead soldiers, etc. This is obviously about Hannibal's family, bringing the album full circle back to Hannibal eating the bride in the first song and him wanting JP to tell the world about him, which DT obviously dedicated the entire album to.
There you have it. Please feel free to add in any nuggest I missed. I have to say, while this is perhaps one of the most bizarre album concepts DT have come up with to date, knowing and understanding the underlying concept has made the album even more enjoyable to me.
POTY
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It's up there with the 'classic' DT records......unlike SC, it has aged quite well....TCOT is still the best off the album though!
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I don't understand why they didn't put something a bit darker in that part, like Mike could've growled about how traumatic the experience was, or something about being to close to death. "BY THE GRACE OF GOD ABOVE, EVERYONE SURVIVED, GRRRRRRRRRRR" just doesn't work.
John Petrucci wrote the lyrics. Maybe he didn't have such a good relationship with his relatives, and he is angry that they survived the crash.
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I'm really surprised at the fact that nobody remembers (to mention) the beginning of TSF. The way it gets louder and when the keys come in and the triple unison going on. I absolutely love the keys on TSF and on the album. Especially the strings (is it correct?) in the background, I wish they were louder though.
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I was never a big fan of the record to begin with and my appreciation for it is still pretty low. I did finally come around on "The Count of Tuscany," but aside from that and "A Rite of Passage," (although I prefer the radio edit on that to the full version) I pretty much don't care for the album at all.
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:rollin at the cannibal concept! Anyway, BC&SL has aged pretty well. I like TCOT more than I did at first but I also like AROP less than I used to.
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Man, it really doesn't feel like it's over a year old already...
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..."A Rite of Passage," (although I prefer the radio edit on that to the full version)
I feel the same way about that song. It's pretty good as is, but shortening it just a bit as they did for the edit actually takes it up a notch. I wish that version were available for purchase.
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..."A Rite of Passage," (although I prefer the radio edit on that to the full version)
I feel the same way about that song. It's pretty good as is, but shortening it just a bit as they did for the edit actually takes it up a notch. I wish that version were available for purchase.
Frankly, I think it's a symptom of a lot of songs DT has put out recently. I love long songs that take you on a journey, but sometimes, just being long to be "progressive" just doesn't work. To me, a song should never ever want you to hit the fast-forward button. I mean seriously, who the hell skips a note of "A Change of Seasons" or even "Home?" Not me. But I can't say the same for a lot of the material in DT's most recent albums.
I truly hope they grasp the concept that just because you can make something long, doesn't mean you should, if the song tells itself in six or seven minutes as opposed to 10.
Time will tell.
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..."A Rite of Passage," (although I prefer the radio edit on that to the full version)
I feel the same way about that song. It's pretty good as is, but shortening it just a bit as they did for the edit actually takes it up a notch. I wish that version were available for purchase.
This.
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..."A Rite of Passage," (although I prefer the radio edit on that to the full version)
I feel the same way about that song. It's pretty good as is, but shortening it just a bit as they did for the edit actually takes it up a notch. I wish that version were available for purchase.
Frankly, I think it's a symptom of a lot of songs DT has put out recently. I love long songs that take you on a journey, but sometimes, just being long to be "progressive" just doesn't work. To me, a song should never ever want you to hit the fast-forward button. I mean seriously, who the hell skips a note of "A Change of Seasons" or even "Home?" Not me. But I can't say the same for a lot of the material in DT's most recent albums.
I truly hope they grasp the concept that just because you can make something long, doesn't mean you should, if the song tells itself in six or seven minutes as opposed to 10.
Time will tell.
I know that I'm in minority here but if there is Dream Theater epic where I sometimes feel this little section maybe shouldn't be here then it's only some parts of ACOS and ITPOE's Reckoning last solo section and "JR madness part" as it was labelled on making of DVD but I never skip anything anyway... However AROP for example is definitely more consistently intersting to me than ACOS
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WOW, crazy looking back at this. Much more positive than today. :o
Sorry if I posted and shouldn't have in this thread.
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Happy 10 year to BC&SL! I’d say it has aged quite well!