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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: bosk1 on June 16, 2010, 10:08:10 AM
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I was just thinking about how different a lot of the music I like today is from what I was really into in the '80s. I mean, back then, I really liked hard rock and metal, and that hasn't really changed. But the music itself has grown quite a bit, in my opinion. And you have people today who do things people back then didn't really do. I mean, you had great singers who claimed to be "operatic," but you didn't really actually see much actual opera-style singing like you do in some of the more symphonic metal bands. And you had fantastic guitar players back then, but some of the stuff you see nowadays is just insane and wouldn't really have even been thought of back then. But overall, although pop music and the more radio-friendly stuff that is mass consumed will always be a bit formulaic, I think there have been a lot of interesting changes in music that I've seen.
One thing that jumped out at me the most would probably be drums. I mean, you had some drummers doing interesting things back then. But few drummers that I can recall from the '80s were all that interesting to focus on. Now, IMO, that has changed. Drumming seems a lot more dynamic nowadays, and I'm not really sure what the ultimate cause of it is. Maybe one argument is that the rap/hip-hop scene that grew up in the late '80s and early '90s contributed as you had bands that, instead of turning up their noses at genres outside of their own, collaborated with other artists to incorporate different elements into their music. A lot of people didn't really know what to make of the Beastie Boys incorporating heavy guitar riffs into their rap songs and collaborating with Slayer, or Public Enemy and Anthrax working together. I think that not only infused rap with some metal elements, but also influenced metal to embrace more grooves and complex drum beats. Eventually, you started to see a lot more interesting drumming in metal than before, whether it be the actual drummers, incorporating programmed drum loops, or both. When I was younger, I was definitely guitar and vocalist focused and didn't really care about the drumming. But drumming, to me anyway, has gotten a lot more interesting over the years, and I often find myself focusing a lot more on the drummers nowadays. In fact, I was even inspired to buy a kit about a year ago and start learning to play. So, not to take away from other instruments, but my answer is definitely drums. Your thoughts?
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I voted for drums. The speed and technicality of people like Tomas Haake and George Kollias is completely awe inspiring. You didn't see that in the 80s.
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As a whole, I think drummers on all planes of genres have progressed to a great extent over the last couple decades, but to me, some of it is just a change in style or influence, while there is also an increase in skill and speed, but not so much creativity in some areas.
I picked bass guitar because there are some amazing bassists out there who produce some amazing bass work. I don't know TOO much about the history of bass, but as far as I can tell, bass was relegated to just being the simple bass/rhythm guy, there to keep the tonic notes under the harmonies of guitar and vocals, much in the way it was in classical music. Since then, bass guitar has risen to the point of being a melodic instrument in some genres, taking prominence in songs and bands with a great amount of exposure in music. Even bassists like Victor Wooten have taken the instrument to new levels, employing different techniques and sounds, like string harmonics, to create new soundscapes on the bass guitar. There's also the Chapman stick, a bass-related instrument, which created a whole new realm for bassists to play in.
As a drummer, I found it hard NOT to choose drums, but being that bass guitar is part of the rhythm section, I have found myself following bass in the music I listen to, and I find drummers who, while on their own may not be much, can shine with a great bassist in front of them. I also find the rise in bassists-vocalists to be amazing, and it shows that bass players can be multi-talented (Yes, we all knew Geddy was already) and not just plunk out quarter notes in time with the drummer.
The move from rhythmic to melodic bass playing has really improved the instrument, and definitely progressed it since the 80's.
-Marc.
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Surely drumMERS have progressed, but based on technology alone, I don't know how anyone can't vote keys.
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Surely drumMERS have progressed, but based on technology alone, I don't know how anyone can't vote keys.
Good point. Do you (Bosk) mean the instruments themselves, or those who play them?
-Marc.
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I guess I'm more focused on the players and how they use the instruments in the songs, and not really the instrements themselves. The technology for all of the above has grown by leaps and bounds, and probably the most notably in the keyboard area, but that's not really what I was focusing on.
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Surely drumMERS have progressed, but based on technology alone, I don't know how anyone can't vote keys.
This 1000%.
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It's a tough call between drums and bass for me. They've always been condemned to the role of the rhythm section, although there were bands like The Who who were doing things that were interesting on both instruments. I guess I have to go with drums because of the vast majority of super-human drummers out there right now.
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I guess I'm more focused on the players and how they use the instruments in the songs, and not really the instrements themselves. The technology for all of the above has grown by leaps and bounds, and probably the most notably in the keyboard area, but that's not really what I was focusing on.
Wow that's a hard one because you can look at, for examlpe, Flea from the Chilli Peppers. Who played like that and in the forfront. I think each generation has taken what the decade has done before and added to it.
Though all this pick plaaying in bass playing is killing me. It can be used as a great tool for a certain style but I prefer fingers. I guess this thought could be used with all the instruments. Hard one to quantify Bosk1.
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Guitar. While there have always been great guitarists, it seems more people these days have really good chops, particularly in the metal area.
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Guitar for me. Back then there was only Blues and pentatonic scales, but the variation of playing styles these days is just huge. From progressive and simple scales and chords came out Sweep picking, tremolo picking, alternative picking, and tapping. There are guitarists who stick to the old school style (John Mayer, for example), guitarists who incorporate elements of other music in their playing (Yngwie Malmsteen, Michael Romeo), guitarists whose playing style encompasses most of the existing ones (Paul Gilbert, John Petrucci), guitarists with innovative playing style (Steve Vai), guitarists with insane technicality (Chris Broderick, Jeff Loomis), and also guitarists with out-of-this-world playing methods (Buckethead, Micheal Angelo Batio).
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Guitar for me. Back then there was only Blues and pentatonic scales, but the variation of playing styles these days is just huge. From progressive and simple scales and chords came out Sweep picking, tremolo picking, alternative picking, and tapping. There are guitarists who stick to the old school style (John Mayer, for example), guitarists who incorporate elements of other music in their playing (Yngwie Malmsteen, Michael Romeo), guitarists whose playing style encompasses most of the existing ones (Paul Gilbert, John Petrucci), guitarists with innovative playing style (Steve Vai), guitarists with insane technicality (Chris Broderick, Jeff Loomis), and also guitarists with out-of-this-world playing methods (Buckethead, Micheal Angelo Batio).
You've never listened to Jazz or fusion guitarists have you?
They have been doing all of that for years. Also it wasn't "just blues and pentatonic scales", new scales weren't "invented", they have always been around.
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Tough to choose between drum and bass. It seems to me that the difference between the two is that the bass just needed some creative innovation. Plenty of people could have played like Jaco Pastorius, and subsequently did, but who would have thought to do what he did? Creativity in drumming has always been around, but I'm not sure there were many who actually could do what some of today's super-drummers can. Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
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Some of the most impressive drumming in history came out of the big band era. It's not so much that the instrument evolved, it's just a matter of where you had to look to find the technical side of drumming at different time points.
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Honestly, I don't think many rock instruments have evolved much at all since 1990. But I have to go with vocals. Yes, vocals. I hear vocalists doing stuff today that would have been unheard of back in the 80s.
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
No way in hell could Bonham play Harrison's or Carry's stuff.
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I went with keyboards in terms of the instrument's technological progress and Jordan Rudes.
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
No way in hell could Bonham play Harrison's or Carry's stuff.
Carry? Who the heck is Carry? Unless you all mean Tool's Danny Carey...
Either way, I do agree, there are drummers out there who are doing amazing things with limb independence and mixed meter, metric modulation, overlapped meter through poly rhythms, but now there are more OF them, and they all took their influence from some of the early greats in the 70's, at LEAST most notably Bill Bruford and Neil Peart.
I guess I'm more focused on the players and how they use the instruments in the songs, and not really the instrements themselves. The technology for all of the above has grown by leaps and bounds, and probably the most notably in the keyboard area, but that's not really what I was focusing on.
As for being a part of the music, I think bass really has taken more of a prominent spot in songs, but I feel like drums have always been full of fills and heavy sounds, flashy showmanship and fast chops... they're just different now. Bass, on the other hand, has gone beyond what it used to be, and really becomes something more in many bands these days, where the bass gets noticed and enjoyed, rather than just felt.
-Marc.
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:lol Yeah Carey not Carry. I knew it wasn't right but I was looking at Barto's post when I typed it instead of what I was typing.
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
No way in hell could Bonham play Harrison's or Carry's stuff.
Let's see Harrison or Carey play "When the Levee Breaks" on Bonham's old drum kit. Ya know, the one with only bass drum. :biggrin:
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
No way in hell could Bonham play Harrison's or Carry's stuff.
Let's see Harrison or Carey play "When the Levee Breaks" on Bonham's old drum kit. Ya know, the one with only bass drum. :biggrin:
Yeah, but it was a HUUUUUGE bass drum... Oh, and only 3 toms. But they were HUUUUUGE toms... I guess for Bonham, less was more, but bigger was better.
-Marc.
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I never got the love for the drums on the song.
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Bonham was a good drummer but not a great one. Keith Moon played circles around him as far as I'm concerned.
Anyways, guitarists have improved the most. If I heard a guitarist of back in the day play anywhere close to what guitarists of today can play I would be shocked. Anyone voting keys is wrong. There are countless number of classically trained piano players that have had incredible technical skill for centuries.
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
No way in hell could Bonham play Harrison's or Carry's stuff.
Not Peart either. He's one of my very favorite musicians, but I don't think he could play Anesthetize. I considered Bruford, but same thing.
And yes, Danny Carey. Didn't have time to confirm the spelling.
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You failed to mention Ian Paice in your list of 70's drummer's, especially considering that he's the best from that era :tup
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I'd probably say drums, which have gone from more or less just a standard beat to an active part of the music.
Although I personally like how the bass has progressed, the biggest difference does seem to lie with drums.
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Who in the 70's could play what Carry and Harrison do today?
In just the rock genre:
Peart
Bruford
Bonham
Palmer
Shall I go on? :biggrin:
No way in hell could Bonham play Harrison's or Carry's stuff.
Not Peart either. He's one of my very favorite musicians, but I don't think he could play Anesthetize. I considered Bruford, but same thing.
And yes, Danny Carey. Didn't have time to confirm the spelling.
Okay, I was more or less playing Devil's Advocate earlier, but I don't think the inability to play someone else's music automatically makes you inferior, which is seemingly what it is being implied here.
And why is Danny Carey being put on such a pedestal here? He is good, but not that good.
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The Purdie Shuffle is as far as drumming technique can go anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FX_84iWPLU
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:lol
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The Purdie Shuffle is as far as drumming technique can go anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FX_84iWPLU
I came.
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My answer may be different if I weren't doing this at about 1:15 AM, but I have to go with vocals. To me(although there were exceptions of course), the 80's seem to have had bands that used just one style of vocals each (or two similar styles), whether it be classic(ish) singing, growling, or something else. Now there're just so many different artists that incorporate many types of vocals into one piece of music. Back in the 80's you would be hard-pressed to find a band that incorporated a three-vocalist style as dynamic as that of Alesana (with all three using at least one style completely different from the others), or the contrasting male-female vocals of Lacuna Coil or Eyes Set To Kill.
There is no denying the advancements in guitar, drums, bass, or keyboards; but, to me vocals are the most extreme as far as advancing in the last twenty or so years.
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Finally, someone who sees the truth.
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And why is Danny Carey being put on such a pedestal here? He is good, but not that good.
No, he is that good.
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And why is Danny Carey being put on such a pedestal here? He is good, but not that good.
No, he is that good.
Yeah, pretty much.
Personally, I wouldn't call Peart inferior to Carey or Harrison; there are very few drummers I'd rather listen to. I do think that drumming has progressed beyond the abilities of some of the great ones, which is the topic of discussion.
As a potential answer to my own question, perhaps Simon Phillips.
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Drums, there are so many fast and technical drummers nowadays.