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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: emindead on June 01, 2010, 11:38:59 AM
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Apparently, there's a recent wave of opinions saying this album is great. I don't believe it. The consensus was that this album was a disappointment.
Based on the "11th studio album" thread, I'm wrong.
I want to know what's DTF's opinion.
Go!
Edit: Base your vote on DT's releases solely.
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Good album, nothing more. ITPOE Pt.1 is absolutely great, so are the first part of Pt.2 and parts of TMOLS. The rest ranks from good to pretty bad.
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3, a good album but they've done a lot better ones. It's next to last on my DT album ranking (a notch over the debut). It was my first album as a new DT fan and I quite enjoyed it until I discovered their other albums, then it went further down on my ranking. The best songs are ITPOE 1 & 2, Forsaken, and Constant Motion.
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I need a 1.5.
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emindead, the consensus isn't that it's amazing or anything. It's that, even relative to DT's other albums, it's not the worst abomination ever unleashed upon mankind like some people were implying.
Compared to DT's other material, it's okay.
Compared to modern top 40, it's fantastic.
It's all relative.
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Didn't we have a thread just like this not that long ago but it went from 1 to 10?
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3. Compared to the rest of Dream Theater music it sucks donkey balls but I still think it's an alright album.
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I went with a 2 due to a lack of a 2.5. I hate rating on a 1-5 scale.
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I went with a 2 due to a lack of a 2.5. I hate rating on a 1-5 scale.
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I need a 1.5.
This. One of the weekest albums from DT next to WD&U(mostly because of the production values)
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5 (Excellent)
Yep.
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It's Excellent! one of their best, absoluteley! so awesome with ITPOE, and Dark eternal night, not to mention TMOLS, and POW
Such awesomeness! alot better than their Pre Jordan stuff
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...
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It is a really good album.
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I'm not alone on "1. Excellent" anymore :laugh:
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alot better than their Pre Jordan stuff
Yeah. Like "You Not Me" and "Status Seeker."
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alot better than their Pre Jordan stuff
Yeah. Like "You Not Me" and "Status Seeker."
Hey, lay off Status Seeker :P
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I actually don't think "Status Seeker" is that bad; it ranks pretty low, but it isn't that bad. I'll take it over "Constant Lotion" any day.
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2.
It just doesn't do much for me, especially the lyrics.
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I'm wondering, for the ones who voted terrible and mediocre, is it mediocre compared to DT's previous albums, or mediocre compared to everything from the music industry? Because there's one hell of a difference. It might be one my least favorite DT albums, it is still a very good album compared we hear nowadays.
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4 I guess, very good album with a couple of weak points (PoW in particular, although actually recently even that's grown on me).
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Good. Yeah, I said it's good.
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I would of given it 4.5 but went with 5.
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I'm wondering, for the ones who voted terrible and mediocre, is it mediocre compared to DT's previous albums, or mediocre compared to everything from the music industry? Because there's one hell of a difference. It might be one my least favorite DT albums, it is still a very good album compared we hear nowadays.
I think it's mediocre in general, not just compared to DT's other albums. IT's really at the bottom of my DT playlist, and pretty far behind in terms of my general music playlist as well.
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Good enough, but it's really one of their worst.
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If there was an option between mediocre and terrible, I would pick that.
But since there isn't, I voted terrible. (I'm going by DT standards however, not by objectively compared to other bands)
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Really good. It has some amazing tracks like In the Presence, Prophets, and TDEN, some more solid tracks, and only one disappointment, Ministry.
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For me, it's really figthing for the top 1. album, along with octavarium, BC&SL
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Almost 70 percent think it's either just "good" or "mediocre." Very revealing, and probably right on.
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ITPOE1 - 5/5
Forsaken - 4/5
Constant Motion - 5/5
TDEN - 4/5
Prophets of War - 1/5
Repentence 3/5
TMOLS 2/5
ITPOE2 - 3.5/5
Subjective overall rating: about 3.5/5
There are some amazing moments, and some moments I don't care for. Overall, it feels like about half an album's worth of greatness.
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Almost 70 percent think it's either just "good" or "mediocre." Very revealing, and probably right on.
By the same token, almost 70 percent voted in the range of good to excellent.
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Almost 70 percent think it's either just "good" or "mediocre." Very revealing, and probably right on.
By the same token, almost 70 percent voted in the range of good to excellent.
That's very revealing, and probably right on.
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That means that most ppl (at this forum) likes SC! why are there so many complaints then?! :S
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Mediocre, but only because it's DT.
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That means that most ppl (at this forum) likes SC! why are there so many complaints then?! :S
Vocal minority.
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There's no 4.5, so I went with 5.
The most daring album in DT discography, plenty of experiments, no weak points, three songs in the "amazing" tier (Repentance, The Ministry of Lost Souls, Constant Motion - each for different reasons in a different group). Ages very well and I hope maybe that day will come some day (10 years or so?) when hating it will no longer be cool and fashionable.
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I said 3, but a 3.5 would describe it better to me. It has some very enjoyable moments, however it is much weaker than some other DT albums like Six Degree and SFAM. In respect to those glorious albums, I would not give a 4 to SC, however there is nothing that I dislike on it.
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Picked mediocre. While it's my least favorite there is still 15-20 minutes of material I don't mind listening to.
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1
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ITPOE Part 1 has probably the best instrumental section they've done since Metropolis Part 1, seriously, the intro to that song is PERFECT progressive metal. Other than that I don't really love any of the other tracks, but TMOLS is half-great, Repentance has good/great bits and some of ITPOE part 2 is very good. 3 overall for me, but would be a 2 without the first four minutes of the album.
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I picked good because it's average to me. When I don't play it for a while is seems better to me. I seem to play other DT cd's more.
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4, it's a great album!
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Mediocre at best.
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I voted 3. It's one of my least favorite out of DT's albums, but that doesn't mean I dislike it.
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20 people (as of this post) think the album is mediocre to terrible, whereas only 14 consider it excellent or really good.
So the haters outweigh the fanboys. :lol
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It's kinda what I would expect, and it's not that bad.
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It's kinda what I would expect, and it's not that bad.
Yeah, most people have voted "good" which is nice to see.
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ITPOE1: 3/5
Forsaken: 4/5
Constant Motion: 4/5
TDEN: 2/5
Prophets of War: 3/5
Repentence: 2/5
TMOLS: 4/5
ITPOE2: 5/5
I'd put it a 3.4/5 if it was on decimal scale, so I put a 3 on it... That's a good score, but not that good for DT, a band whose albums I usually rate from 4 to ∞.
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ITPOE1: 3/5
Does not compute.
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There's no 4.5, so I went with 5.
The most daring album in DT discography, plenty of experiments, no weak points, three songs in the "amazing" tier (Repentance, The Ministry of Lost Souls, Constant Motion - each for different reasons in a different group). Ages very well and I hope maybe that day will come some day (10 years or so?) when hating it will no longer be cool and fashionable.
That day has already come.
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went with good...prob rates in the middle of all for me
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Voted "good." If not for the lyrics on TDEN and ITPOE pt. 2, I would probably have a higher opinion. No real problems with the album musically.
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1
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ITPOE1: 3/5
ITPOE2: 5/5
You rated ITPOE pt 1 lower than pt2??
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_3268.jpg)
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I've always considered part two better as well. The advantage has decreased over time, but it's still there.
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I've always considered part two better as well. The advantage has decreased over time, but it's still there.
This.
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I've always considered part two better as well. The advantage has decreased over time, but it's still there.
This.
Yeah, but "The Reckoning."
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To me, part 2 loses all the momentum part 1 built. Part 1 is just gorgeous, flowing perfectly from part to part. Part 2 starts great, I'll give you that, but when my ears beg for more power (after the great "ANGELS FALL ALL FOR YOU HERETIC" and "DEMON HEART BLEED FOR US!") the song delivers me a demotivated "Dark master within I will fight for you". Totally a buzz killer. The vocal melody and the instruments should have keep rising up instead of halting the momentum.
Edit: (I'm listening to the song and) Oh my God if the solo section doesn't flow at all. There's too much copy/paste riffs from previous parts of the song where they sound really out of place, and these riffs are solely for Petrucci and Rudess can solo for the sake of it.
Part 2 is unorganized.
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I said this in another thread recently, but ITPOE Part I is great on its own. Had they released that as just one song and never did Part II, it would have still been great. The lyrics are ambiguous enough in Part I to where it could be interpreted in several ways, unlike Part II, which seems to beat you over the head with unimaginative and just plain bad lyrics, IMO.
I actually like the majority of the instrumental section in Part II, though. The beginning part has Rudess doing that bouncing keyboard thing which reminds me of the end of ELP's "Karn Evil 9," and Petrucci's solo when the tempo suddenly changes is very nice. Too bad most of the rest of the song is either unmemorable or ruined by lyrics about dark masters.
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I chose 4.
I was spinning this in my car a few days ago, and I can't get over how much better it was than I thought. My least favorite track is still definitely Forsaken, but this isn't a BAD album by any stretch
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Now that voting has rounded out a bit, it seems that more people fall under "Good" than above. Which is what I was anticipating.
Basically majority of DTF thinks the album is terrible-good (max) with 18 people disagreeing.
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DT has never made a bad album, I tell you. The negativity surrounding this album is obviously because of the fact that it's relatively a bad album. But compared to albums from other artists, this is actually decent.
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DT has never made a bad album, I tell you. The negativity surrounding this album is obviously because of the fact that it's relatively a bad album. But compared to albums from other artists, this is actually decent.
Agreed, but that's not what the OP said. It said in relation to other DT albums.
Compared to other DT, this album is utter shit.
Placed in the spectrum of all music, it probably is somewhere in the higher end.
It's all about relativity.
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DT has never made a bad album, I tell you. The negativity surrounding this album is obviously because of the fact that it's relatively a bad album. But compared to albums from other artists, this is actually decent.
Agreed, but that's not what the OP said. It said in relation to other DT albums.
Compared to other DT, this album is utter shit.
Placed in the spectrum of all music, it probably is somewhere in the higher end.
It's all about relativity.
Oh, I didn't read the OP carefully. I should have given it 2, instead of 3. I wouldn't call it shit, though.
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DT has never made a bad album, I tell you. The negativity surrounding this album is obviously because of the fact that it's relatively a bad album. But compared to albums from other artists, this is actually decent.
Agreed, but that's not what the OP said. It said in relation to other DT albums.
Compared to other DT, this album is utter shit.
Placed in the spectrum of all music, it probably is somewhere in the higher end.
It's all about relativity.
Oh, I didn't read the OP carefully. I should have given it 2, instead of 3. I wouldn't call it shit, though.
Yea that might have been a little hard, but in reality, when I'm comparing it to everything they did pre-Six Degrees it really is just horrible.
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When I'm comparin it too pre SFAM it's pretty ALOT! better
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When I'm comparin it too pre SFAM it's pretty ALOT! better
Huh?
The only thing I can read in that is "Systematic Chaos is better than anything they did before SFAM". That can't possibly be what you said.
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When I'm comparin it too pre SFAM it's pretty ALOT! better
...SeRoX?
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When I'm comparin it too pre SFAM it's pretty ALOT! better
Holy shit.
Go post this in Controversial Music thread. :corn
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Quad, your "analysis" of the results shows politician levels of spin and bias. See my earlier response to Samsara to see show the same results can be said to "show" two very different trends.
All the results show are that out of the 5 options, more people consider the album "good" or mid-range than anything else.
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I gave it a 3, it's a good album.
1 ½ years back when i was in love with it, i would probably have given it a 4 or 5 though. :P
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I actually re-listened to the album again recently. I'll break it down song by song.
1. ITPOE pt. 1 - Good song, very proggy, but feels incomplete (obviously). Dunno if it should have been broken in half the way it was.
2. Forsaken - Just boring. Very cool intro and music during the verse but the vocals are just horribly boring, as are the drums. Song just does nothing for me, feels very forced and uninspired.
3. Constant Motion - Love it, minus the chorus. The chorus just loses all of the momentum and energy. I am one of the few that likes the verses and such, despite the hetfieldness of it all. But the chorus really drags it down, as does the annoyingly dragged out ending.
4. TDEK - Annoyingly boring. The main riff is cool, but everything else is just lame and horribly uninteresting. Wanted to skip it so bad, eventually did during the ending.
5. Repentence is it? Is that track 5? Anyway, my favorite song off the album. It's perfect, no complaints.
6. PoW - Pointless, fun, but pointless. Actually the coolest parts are those little cable tricks JP did. You know, when he plugged it in and got that high noise? Sad.
7. TMOLS - I love the music, the vocals are........ok. But this song needs a lot of work. If they worked on this song for a while and really hammered it out it would be amazing. JR really shines on this, minus the annoying instrumental section......which does have a cool guitar solo. Also ending drags on wayyyyy too long.
8. ITPOE pt. 2 - Boring. Intro is cool, including the first verse, but the chorus is by far the worst thing they have done in a VERY long time. The heavy part was really cool at first, but it gets stale quickly. Also, horrible instrumental section and worse ending.
Better?
Also, the main problem I have with ITPOE is that they really do feel like two different songs. Obviously there are the connections that are cool, but they feel very different and the second half is no where near as good as the first half. If they had made it one track and made it consistent with the first half, it would have been better.
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Hehe, for me it's like, The Reckoning on ITPOE 2 is the best part, I also love the instrumental section on TDEN, Constant motion is a little boring to me, the solos and intro/outro is cool, but it doesn't happen that much, forsaken is just..there, a good song, not very awesome, Repentance is cool, didn't like it at first but now I think it's pretty good, PoW is a nice, fast, powerish song that I've allways liked, TMOLS is second best on the album, with that cool instrumental section and that awesome ending solo that I wish would never end.
I gave it a 5 :D it's excellent
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I tried to listen to Systematic Chaos again today and I couldn't even make it past ITPOE Pt. 1.
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TDEK
I see what you did thar
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TDEK
I see what you did thar
I try.
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The Dark Eternal Kite?
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When I'm comparin it too pre SFAM it's pretty ALOT! better
Holy shit.
Go post this in Controversial Music thread. :corn
Controversial music thread?
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The Dark Eternal Kite?
:facepalm:
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;D :D :laugh: whaaat?
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Almost 70 percent think it's either just "good" or "mediocre." Very revealing, and probably right on.
By the same token, almost 70 percent voted in the range of good to excellent.
That's very revealing, and probably right on.
"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that"
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I mean right now that statistic are pretty clear if you look at it without an agenda to prove.
7 1's and 7 5's. Large majority think it's good (35). 2 outweighs 4, 23 to 13.
From this I think it's fair to say that the album is mainly seen as good with a slight tip towards mediocre. On top of that the people who love the album are about as numerous as those who despise it, however neither of those groups is an overly large one.
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4.5
It's the album that got me into DT. Plus, it has my favorite Petrucci solo (favorite solo of all time, actually) in ITPOE1. Overall a fantastic album, although I can understand why someone who grew up on the earlier stuff could be turned off to it.
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I give it a 3.8!
Still a great fun album to listen to. It's DT being DT and you can feel the band take a collective sigh after the emotion of Score. Not a masterpiece by any stretch, but if this is near the bottom of their catalog..well, then..that's one hell of a catalog.
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Mediocre, but only because it's DT.
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3. It's no where near their best but it's still a good album.
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3. It's no where near their best but it's still a good album.
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The Dark Eternal Kite?
:umno:
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The Dark Eternal Kite?
:umno:
The Dark Eternal Knight. Yes?
It's good to see that most of the votes are good. I knew it was a good album. :hat
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You rated ITPOE pt 1 lower than pt2??
(https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/forumavatars/avatar_3268.jpg)
Yes, because of this:
I've always considered part two better. The advantage has decreased over time, but it's still there.
I think PT.2 is more complete than part 1. Yes, the "Dark Master" chorus is corny as hell (I enjoy it, though), but the rest of the song is pretty good. The Reckoning, even if it's overlong, isn't a bad instrumental, and the ending is quite awesome.
I'd put it a 4.6 in decimal scale, but then again I approached it to 5.
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Mediocre, but only because it's DT.
true. anything with a DT label seems better. and i watch too much constant motion video.
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I voted good and was not shocked when i read the results , But it is a good listner and just not one of there wow factor albums for me .
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3. It's no where near their best but it's still a good album.
This and
It is a good listener and just not one of there wow factor albums for me .
this.
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Mediocre, but only because it's DT.
true. anything with a DT label seems better. and i watch too much constant motion video.
What I mean is, if another band released it, it would be amazing. But since DT released, I expect better from them.
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You should probably listen to better music if you are thinking like that.
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You should probably listen to better music if you are thinking like that.
I should listen to better music if I hold bands I love up to high standards?
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No.
You should listen to better music because there are dozens upon dozens of great bands that have played on this Earth. Statements such as, "If another band released it, it would be amazing, but since DT released it, it is mediocre" give me the impression you have yet to realize this.
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No, it means that he expects quality releases from Dream Theater because they have such a history of it. Because they have so many great albums he sees a 9/10 album from them as a disappointment, even though he would find that perfectly fine with a lot of other bands.
I know it's tough around here sometimes, but it's basically saying that *gasp*, they live Dream Theater more than other bands.
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Nick gets it right.
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a perfect album. I re-watched the Making Of Documentary earlier today.
Will always be one of my favorite albums ever.
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It is bizarre to me that one could like any one band so much more than other bands to call a mediocre release by their standards amazing by everyone else's.
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a perfect album. I re-watched the Making Of Documentary earlier today.
Will always be one of my favorite albums ever.
Whoa
DoC :eek
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It is bizarre to me that one could like any one band so much more than other bands to call a mediocre release by their standards amazing by everyone else's.
Yeah that's strange.
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Amazing may be a strong word, but here is how it works for me. Rush and Dream Theater are my two absolute favorite bands. The main reason why is for *ME*, they've put out a rich history of fantastic releases. I can honestly say I'd rate my least favorite Dream Theater album an 8/10, MAYBE a 7.5/10.
I come to expect better from bands I love, and with good reason. Obviously you wouldn't agree with the specific bands/albums, but it's tough to imagine you can't get a feel for the general theory.
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It is bizarre to me that one could like any one band so much more than other bands to call a mediocre release by their standards amazing by everyone else's.
For instance. I like Godsmack (call me crazy), so when they release a good rockin album, I dig it. However, if DT released a Godsmack CD, I'd think it was horrible.
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It is bizarre to me that one could like any one band so much more than other bands to call a mediocre release by their standards amazing by everyone else's.
For instance. I like Godsmack (call me crazy), so when they release a good rockin album, I dig it. However, if DT released a Godsmack CD, I'd think it was horrible.
I understand this logic when utilized in regards to some bands. For example, "There are some bands who would kill to write an album as good as a mediocre Dream Theater album".
However, I interpreted your original post as though you were saying all bands would kill to write an album as good as a mediocre Dream Theater album.
Like I said, it is bizarre to me that one could like any one band so much more than other bands to call a mediocre release by their standards amazing by everyone else's.
Amazing by some bands' standards? Sure.
By all bands' standards? Not so sure.
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Didn't say that at all. I just hold SOME bands to higher standards. And thus when they release an album that is below those standards, yet higher than standards I hold SOME other bands too, they are looked down upon by me.
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TOX, you're so unseasoned.
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I dunno I can see where TOX comes from. After being exposed to a broad variety of music, SC just sucks no matter where you place it. Even if a 'lesser' band released the same album I'd still be listening to it at the same frequency at which I do, which is almost never.
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I dunno I can see where TOX comes from. After being exposed to a broad variety of music, SC just sucks no matter where you place it. Even if a 'lesser' band released the same album I'd still be listening to it at the same frequency at which I do, which is almost never.
All this. 2/5, gets to be above a 1 if only because of the first few minutes of both ITPOE Pt. 1 and Repentance.
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I dunno I can see where TOX comes from. After being exposed to a broad variety of music, SC just sucks no matter where you place it. Even if a 'lesser' band released the same album I'd still be listening to it at the same frequency at which I do, which is almost never.
Replace "no matter where you place it" with "no matter where I place it" and you make a reasonable point, and it's all subjective after all. But don't try to make out that listening to a broad variety makes a difference to everyone's opinion because I listen to probably as broad a spectrum of styles and moods of music as anyone else here and I think it's a solid album. In fact, I'd even say it's probably one of the reasons I like the album, I listen to so much different stuff and yet no other album is quite like SC.