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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: SoundscapeMN on May 10, 2010, 12:55:40 PM

Title: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 10, 2010, 12:55:40 PM
apparently this is finally going to happen..at least with Wilson and Akerfeldt. Wilson fails to mention Portnoy's involvement in this new interview.

https://www.chordstruckmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=218&Itemid=1 (https://www.chordstruckmagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=218&Itemid=1)

Quote from: Steven Wilson

“I started writing with Mikael [Åkerfeldt] last month, finally. It’s still in the very early days. We wrote about 15 minutes of music last month in my studio near London and we’re very excited about it. I think people are going to be very surprised by the direction. If they’re expecting some kind of death-metal-progressive rock, they’re going to be surprised [because] it’s not like that,” Wilson continues.

“If you put the two of us together, the last thing we’re going to do is something similar to what people already know from our most high profile project. It’s very arty, very ambitious; it’s going to be epic. We’re still writing. [It’s going to be] very dark, very twisted, very experimental. It’s still rock music, but we’re trying to do something really, really special and really different with this.”
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 10, 2010, 12:57:11 PM
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Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 10, 2010, 12:59:53 PM
(https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4764/1273381578963.jpg)
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sintheros on May 10, 2010, 01:01:17 PM
It also mentions that SW's next solo album is going to be around 42 minutes in length, has a 21 minute song, and is very King Crimson.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 10, 2010, 01:04:03 PM
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Pretty much this.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Volk9 on May 10, 2010, 01:06:15 PM
Cool.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 10, 2010, 01:24:16 PM
I almost fainted when I walked into this thread.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 10, 2010, 01:27:27 PM
It also mentions that SW's next solo album is going to be around 42 minutes in length, has a 21 minute song, and is very King Crimson.

So we can expect it to sound like The Incident (song).

Anyway, I'm very excited about this album.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: LCArenas on May 10, 2010, 01:28:06 PM
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(https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4764/1273381578963.jpg)
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Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 10, 2010, 01:29:29 PM
YES

(https://www.panfletonegro.com/volante/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/yes-man-jim-carrey-1.bmp)
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gorille85 on May 10, 2010, 01:39:34 PM
Yoopidoo lailai!
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gadough on May 10, 2010, 01:48:57 PM
I almost fainted when I walked into this thread.

I just now regained consciousness.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Cool Chris on May 10, 2010, 01:52:05 PM
They are very talented musicans and writers, I just hope they find a good vocalist to work with  :)
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 10, 2010, 01:54:14 PM
They are very talented musicans and writers, I just hope they find a good vocalist to work with  :)
We're talking of a project involving Mikael Akerfeldt lol
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Zantera on May 10, 2010, 01:54:37 PM
I came.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gorille85 on May 10, 2010, 01:57:17 PM
They are very talented musicans and writers, I just hope they find a good vocalist to work with  :)
We're talking of a project involving Mikael Akerfeldt lol

And according to the interview, Portnoy is also involved.
Quote
Recently, Wilson has collaborated with Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth and Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 10, 2010, 02:02:20 PM
Wilson + Akerfeldt project?! YES PLEASE.

Also, next Wilson solo album? ALSO YES PLEASE.

Can't wait for both of these... looks like 2011 might top 2010 for great prog releases! Between these two, and new Rush and DT albums next year, it'll be awesome.

Can't wait to hear more about Steven's upcoming works...

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 10, 2010, 02:07:29 PM
They are very talented musicans and writers, I just hope they find a good vocalist to work with  :)
We're talking of a project involving Mikael Akerfeldt lol

And according to the interview, Portnoy is also involved.
Quote
Recently, Wilson has collaborated with Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth and Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater.
I think that will be official until Portnoy posts something on the internet involving this project.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Bombardana on May 10, 2010, 02:17:06 PM
:caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine: :caffeine:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 10, 2010, 02:25:52 PM
They are very talented musicans and writers, I just hope they find a good vocalist to work with  :)
We're talking of a project involving Mikael Akerfeldt lol

And according to the interview, Portnoy is also involved.
Quote
Recently, Wilson has collaborated with Mikael Åkerfeldt from Opeth and Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater.
I think that will be official until Portnoy posts something on the internet involving this project.

he is listed by the writer of the article,

but the quote I posted above Steven doesn't mention him. So at least at this stage, from a songwriting approach, he's not involved.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 10, 2010, 02:33:11 PM
Wilson + Akerfeldt = MONEY

This is great, great news. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: InTheNameOfGod on May 10, 2010, 03:35:31 PM
A prog fans dream right there.

I could see a major styles clash with Portnoy being involved. I'd rather it just stay between Wilson and Aker.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gadough on May 10, 2010, 03:37:31 PM
A prog fans dream right there.

I could see a major styles clash with Portnoy being involved. I'd rather it just stay between Wilson and Aker.

I totally agree with this. I think they could work something out, but I can't help but feel that the whole thing would go much smoother sans Portnoy.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: 73109 on May 10, 2010, 03:37:49 PM
I might just check this out.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: King Postwhore on May 10, 2010, 03:55:11 PM
OMG, OMG,  OMG,  OMG,  OMG,  OMG,  OMG!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 10, 2010, 04:00:59 PM
This is very exciting. I've become something of an Opeth fanboy the last few months, and I've always loved Porcupine Tree.

If Portnoy is involved, cool, but if he is not, that is fine too. As a drummer, there is only so much he can do when it comes to actually writing the melodies, and as a producer*, I don't think he's anywhere near the level of Akerfeldt and Wilson.

*When I say "producer", I am referring to a position where creative input is given. What to do with melodies, what to do with vocals, etc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Arcaeus on May 10, 2010, 04:08:21 PM
Pretty cool. :tup
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 10, 2010, 04:17:47 PM
Actually, to be honest, and no offense to Mike, I think if he IS to be involved, I'd rather see him as just a session drumming more than anything, kind of like with OSI or more recently, A7X. Just comes in, learns the songs, lays down the drum tracks - in, out, one week or two... That way, if needed, they could just sub another drummer for him if any of the material gets toured - ya know, no REAL huge commitments.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Portrucci on May 10, 2010, 04:43:26 PM
I think Gavin Harrison's drumming would probably be a better choice. From the description it sounds like it would suit him well. Like Blood, they would just send the tracks to him, he spends a week or so recording the parts and then sends em back. no fuss

But this "3 man super-group" idea has been hinted at for so long, Steven and Mikael would surely feel guilty to not ask Portnoy first.

Either way, I'm sure it's still going to be amazing.   :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: RandalGraves on May 10, 2010, 05:29:24 PM
I know it's cool to love on Gavin and not Mike these days . . . but I'll be psyched when Mike's on board with this.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: pogoowner on May 10, 2010, 05:39:19 PM
This is very exciting. I've become something of an Opeth fanboy the last few months, and I've always loved Porcupine Tree.

If Portnoy is involved, cool, but if he is not, that is fine too. As a drummer, there is only so much he can do when it comes to actually writing the melodies, and as a producer*, I don't think he's anywhere near the level of Akerfeldt and Wilson.

*When I say "producer", I am referring to a position where creative input is given. What to do with melodies, what to do with vocals, etc.
Agreed. If Portnoy is involved, I'd prefer he just be involved with the drumming, and nothing else.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: MetalManiac666 on May 10, 2010, 05:49:34 PM
Actually, to be honest, and no offense to Mike, I think if he IS to be involved, I'd rather see him as just a session drumming more than anything, kind of like with OSI or more recently, A7X. Just comes in, learns the songs, lays down the drum tracks - in, out, one week or two... That way, if needed, they could just sub another drummer for him if any of the material gets toured - ya know, no REAL huge commitments.

-Marc.

Buckets have been came, and I agree with this.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 10, 2010, 06:29:29 PM
As much as I would love to see Portnoy involved, this sounds more like Gavin Harrisons thing.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SPNKr on May 10, 2010, 06:53:58 PM
I think Gavin Harrison's drumming would probably be a better choice. From the description it sounds like it would suit him well. Like Blood, they would just send the tracks to him, he spends a week or so recording the parts and then sends em back. no fuss

But this "3 man super-group" idea has been hinted at for so long, Steven and Mikael would surely feel guilty to not ask Portnoy first.

Either way, I'm sure it's still going to be amazing.   :hefdaddy

 :yarr


NOW! All we need is Kevin Moore






:splodetard:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Ultimetalhead on May 10, 2010, 07:01:32 PM
I express nothing but approval at this project. I'm pretty indifferent as to if Mike's involved, but I'm sure it could add another layer if he is.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 10, 2010, 07:06:32 PM
this sounds more like Gavin Harrisons thing.

This.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 10, 2010, 07:27:50 PM
I agree. But the thing is, we already have Gavin on a bunch of prog PT/SW/OSI vein stuff. I'm sure whatever this project is will be significantly different from any DT or Transatlantic stuff, and I would be interested to see what Mike would bring to it. What we see from DT's stuff in the past is that Mike seems to really shine creatively on the more dark/strange stuff like on Awake.

I wouldn't fully count Mike out just yet.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Volk9 on May 10, 2010, 09:27:29 PM
I would be interested to see what Mike would bring to it.

I wouldn't, though he may finally get to do some the death growls he's been wanting to do for so long
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 10, 2010, 09:29:11 PM
I would be interested to see what Mike would bring to it.

I wouldn't, though he may finally get to do some the death growls he's been wanting to do for so long

Three Words - Death Growl Harmonies

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Volk9 on May 10, 2010, 09:30:21 PM
I would be interested to see what Mike would bring to it.

I wouldn't, though he may finally get to do some the death growls he's been wanting to do for so long

Three Words - Death Growl Harmonies

-Marc.

Only one of them is good at it though
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: FiberglassMoon on May 10, 2010, 09:36:48 PM
It may sound more like a Gavin Harrison type project, but I'd like to see what Mike could do for this sort of stuff.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 10, 2010, 10:47:57 PM
Honestly, I'll bet they write all/most of the songs and get a feel for the vibe and style they want to go for before deciding on a drummer, rather than picking one ahead of time and then having the drummer's particular style influence the songwriting or direction.  
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 10, 2010, 10:51:49 PM
Honestly, I'll bet they write all/most of the songs and get a feel for the vibe and style they want to go for before deciding on a drummer, rather than picking one ahead of time and then having the drummer's particular style influence the songwriting or direction.  

Agreed.

And as much as I love Gavin and worship the ground he walks on, I'm kinda hoping they go out and find someone who's not really known, like what Devin Townsend did with the drummer on Ki.

Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: orcus116 on May 10, 2010, 10:52:57 PM
There is no way in hell this project will live up to the hype within prog rock/metal circles.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 10, 2010, 11:08:42 PM
Yeah, it's probably going to suck ass.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Global Laziness on May 10, 2010, 11:39:58 PM
I express nothing but approval at this project. I'm pretty indifferent as to if Mike's involved, but I'm sure it could add another layer if he is.

This. I'm super excited though; I can't wait for an official announcement.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gadough on May 10, 2010, 11:55:57 PM
Yeah, it's probably going to suck ass.

Do I detect subtle sarcasm?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 10, 2010, 11:56:46 PM
:neverusethis:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gadough on May 10, 2010, 11:57:10 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: AcidLameLTE on May 11, 2010, 03:58:25 AM
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Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 11, 2010, 04:42:37 AM
To my knowledge, the only person who's ever said anything about MP being involved in this project is MP.  I've always seen it as a SW/MA collaboration, to which MP may (or may not) do the session drumming.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: YtseJamittaja on May 11, 2010, 06:45:55 AM
This would be kick ass!!!   :metal :metal
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Pyroph on May 11, 2010, 07:51:48 AM
Damn, lotta hate for MP. I don't really mind if he's on it. I think he'd be fine, as the relationship with them is a lot better than with KevMo I'd say.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 11, 2010, 08:20:08 AM
Damn, lotta hate for MP. I don't really mind if he's on it. I think he'd be fine, as the relationship with them is a lot better than with KevMo I'd say.

Yea. I find it kinda weird how so many people seem to have so little faith in Mike's abilities, even on a DT board. I'd hate to see MP brough on board just for the sake of money, though.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: bout to crash on May 11, 2010, 08:33:05 AM
 :rollin at some of the responses in here.

Anyway, I'm excited about this! Who wants to me the person who tells me when it comes out if I disappear from the internet? :lol

PS- I also would prefer no MP
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 11, 2010, 08:40:03 AM
I'd actually be cool with MP being involved.  Of course, at this point thats all up to SW and MA if they want to invite him, but doing so would force MP to drum in a way he's not really used to, which could turn out great.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 11, 2010, 09:27:51 AM
To my knowledge, the only person who's ever said anything about MP being involved in this project is MP.  I've always seen it as a SW/MA collaboration, to which MP may (or may not) do the session drumming.

Yeah, that's always been my understanding as well.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 11, 2010, 09:36:23 AM
Damn, lotta hate for MP. I don't really mind if he's on it. I think he'd be fine, as the relationship with them is a lot better than with KevMo I'd say.

It's not MP hate, it's just a conjecture that the project will be more of Gavin's thing.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 11, 2010, 09:37:37 AM
I don't think the two of them would want to use anyone from their current bands. With such a long-awaited collaboration I would like to think they'd do something fresher.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 11, 2010, 09:39:42 AM
I don't think the two of them would want to use anyone from their current bands. With such a long-awaited collaboration I would like to think they'd do something fresher.

That doesn't exclude Portnoy then. :metal

If Harrison isn't doing it MP is clearly the number 2 choice here.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on May 11, 2010, 10:18:18 AM
This will truly be awesome when it finally comes out.  One thing I'm wondering is this:

Quote
the last thing we’re going to do is something similar to what people already know from our most high profile project.

Is he referring to BWP, Deliverance, and Damnation here?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gorille85 on May 11, 2010, 10:27:06 AM
This will truly be awesome when it finally comes out.  One thing I'm wondering is this:

Quote
the last thing we’re going to do is something similar to what people already know from our most high profile project.

Is he referring to BWP, Deliverance, and Damnation here?
I think he is referring to Opeth and Porcupine Tree.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 11, 2010, 10:36:11 AM
Damn, lotta hate for MP. I don't really mind if he's on it. I think he'd be fine, as the relationship with them is a lot better than with KevMo I'd say.
I don't see a lot of hate for MP here.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Pyroph on May 11, 2010, 10:40:14 AM
Please. I'm not one to defend Portnoy, but if you don't think this is people having something against him I don't know what to tell you.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: orcus116 on May 11, 2010, 10:57:48 AM
Are you seriously trying to say that people thinking Portnoy not being a good fit means that they hate him?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: InTheNameOfGod on May 11, 2010, 10:59:20 AM
Please. I'm not one to defend Portnoy, but if you don't think this is people having something against him I don't know what to tell you.

I don't have anything against him. He does what he has to do for Dream Theater. And he's a brilliant drummer.

But outside of DT, with musicians like Michael Akerfeldt and Steven Wilson (better musicians who offer far more range in their work) - he's just not needed as a creative influence.

I'd like to hear him on the drums as well, but there's loads of top class drummers out there. Is there loads of song writers like Wilson and Akerfeldt? Absolutely not.

Simply put, he isn't needed.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nic35 on May 11, 2010, 11:07:27 AM
I think it you be very interesting to see MP on drums. Nobody as an idea of what it will sound like, so how can say this collaboration isn't for MP ?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: orcus116 on May 11, 2010, 11:10:47 AM
Because we all hate MP, clearly.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 11, 2010, 11:39:03 AM
As much as I would love to see Portnoy involved, this sounds more like Gavin Harrisons thing.
As much as I love Harrison, I would love another drummer to participate in this project and not someone who playes regularly with these guys (Axenrot, Harrison).
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 11, 2010, 11:51:31 AM
Please. I'm not one to defend Portnoy, but if you don't think this is people having something against him I don't know what to tell you.

I don't have anything against him. He does what he has to do for Dream Theater. And he's a brilliant drummer.

But outside of DT, with musicians like Michael Akerfeldt and Steven Wilson (better musicians who offer far more range in their work) - he's just not needed as a creative influence.

I'd like to hear him on the drums as well, but there's loads of top class drummers out there. Is there loads of song writers like Wilson and Akerfeldt? Absolutely not.

Simply put, he isn't needed.

That's a bingo! :tup :tup
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Fluffy Lothario on May 11, 2010, 11:54:02 AM
I honestly don't know what to think of this collaboration anymore. Four or five years ago, or whenever it was first announced, I couldn't have been happier, but now...

I honestly couldn't care less if MP is in it or not. A part of me would like to see him there simply cos that's what's been talked up for so long and so the idea of hearing him with the other two is now comfortable to me.

The problem for me is that I'm very mixed on SW's songwriting, lyrics writing, and singing, so if he has too much input in those departments, which he is bound to, barring a miracle, I don't see any drummer saving the project for me.

Though maybe if he's with Akerfeldt...
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Ben_Jamin on May 11, 2010, 01:29:08 PM
I think this will end up pretty cool. i'm guessing it'll sound like The Throat Of Winter in the way it's acoustic or somehow like that but still metal. Or it's gonna be a funk album with a cover of Flashlight
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Adami on May 11, 2010, 02:25:50 PM
You guys DO realize that it will be Mikael and Steven rapping gangster (gangsta) style, right?

What else could it be?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gadough on May 11, 2010, 02:49:29 PM
You guys DO realize that it will be Mikael and Steven rapping gangster (gangsta) style, right?

What else could it be?

I could die happy after hearing that.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 11, 2010, 02:57:00 PM
Please. I'm not one to defend Portnoy, but if you don't think this is people having something against him I don't know what to tell you.
I don't know what to tell you, either, because I don't see anything here that would lead me to think that anyone here has anything against him.  Some people think Gavin Harrison (or other drummers) might be better suited for the project.  Others hope that the creative power of the collaboration remains with Wilson and Akerfeldt, whether Portnoy participates or not, or that Portnoy wouldn't "produce" the way he does with DT.  That isn't "people having something against him," and I don't know how you even got that.

Personally, I don't know how MP would find the time for this, but I would love to hear him on it.  Or not.  Whatever.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Dr. SeaWolf on May 11, 2010, 03:51:40 PM
This will truly be awesome when it finally comes out.  One thing I'm wondering is this:

Quote
the last thing we’re going to do is something similar to what people already know from our most high profile project.

Is he referring to BWP, Deliverance, and Damnation here?
I think he is referring to Opeth and Porcupine Tree.

Ah okay, I was under the impression that he was referring to their last collaboration together.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: bout to crash on May 12, 2010, 08:37:49 AM
You guys DO realize that it will be Mikael and Steven rapping gangster (gangsta) style, right?

What else could it be?

I could die happy after hearing that.
:D :D
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: OsMosis2259 on May 12, 2010, 08:16:46 PM
MP is so busy.  He just posted his 2010 plans on his forum so I don't think he will have the time for this honestly.  Otherwise Im one of the few that would want to have MP on this project...  Don't get the MP hate sometimes around here...
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 12, 2010, 08:18:27 PM
Once again, it's not MP hate.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 12, 2010, 08:20:37 PM
Once again, it's not MP hate.

This. MP is a fantastic drummer, and some of the stuff he's done is among my favorite drumming ever. I just tend to enjoy GH a lot more.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SPNKr on May 12, 2010, 08:21:04 PM
Once again, it's not MP hate.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ZBomber on May 12, 2010, 08:48:57 PM
Once again, it's not MP hate.

This. MP is a fantastic drummer, and some of the stuff he's done is among my favorite drumming ever. I just tend to enjoy GH a lot more.

This, especially when it comes to a project like this.... GH seems like the most logical choice in terms of style.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on May 12, 2010, 08:51:20 PM
MP has to sing :P

Or play bass
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: reneranucci on May 12, 2010, 08:53:22 PM
Doesn´t sound exciting to me. The description of the project that SW gave seems kinda lame. Anyway, we won´t know until it is finished.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 12, 2010, 09:01:17 PM
Bill Bruford

/thread

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: reneranucci on May 12, 2010, 09:04:05 PM
Bill Bruford

/thread

-Marc.
Of course this would be exciting but I think Bruford is quite into another league.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 12, 2010, 09:23:36 PM
Bill Bruford

/thread

-Marc.
Of course this would be exciting but I think Bruford is quite into another league.

Indeed. Actually, over at progressiveears, someone suggested Pat Mastelotto, which would be an interesting choice! I think he'd bring a lot to whatever MA and SW have in store.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: OsMosis2259 on May 12, 2010, 10:40:08 PM
Once again, it's not MP hate.

This. MP is a fantastic drummer, and some of the stuff he's done is among my favorite drumming ever. I just tend to enjoy GH a lot more.

This, especially when it comes to a project like this.... GH seems like the most logical choice in terms of style.

yeah true. GH helped out a lot Insurgentes so there maybe a chance that he could help out MA and SW (again). Id like to see MP though mainly because MP+MA+SW has been talked for the past few years. MP is just very busy this year tho...
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: reneranucci on May 12, 2010, 10:46:47 PM
There is chance that GH, as good as he is, will be very restrained like he has been in some of the PT albums, especially Deadwing.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 12, 2010, 11:21:31 PM
There is chance that GH, as good as he is, will be very restrained like he has been in some of the PT albums, especially Deadwing.

wtf? Deadwing is some of his best drumming!
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 12, 2010, 11:49:43 PM
GH's best drumming is undoubtedly FoaBP.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 12, 2010, 11:56:12 PM
When I saw PT live and they played Anesthetize, I saw with my own eyes Gavin Harrison healing a blind, deaf, mentally handicapped, quadriplegic, ugly, metrosexual asian with the power of his drumming.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Global Laziness on May 13, 2010, 12:13:28 AM
When I saw PT live and they played Anesthetize, I saw with my own eyes Gavin Harrison healing a blind, deaf, mentally handicapped, quadriplegic, ugly, metrosexual asian with the power of his drumming.

When I saw PT live, I saw with my own eyes Gavin Harrison making a small white handkerchief disappear.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: 3MinuteWarning on May 13, 2010, 05:31:17 AM

When I saw PT live, I saw with my own eyes Gavin Harrison making a small white handkerchief disappear.

I lol'd when he did that in Glasgow.


Anyway why hasn't anyone suggested the sheer awesomeness that this project would be if they got Danny Carey...




I just smileed at my own idea.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ZBomber on May 13, 2010, 06:48:42 AM
When I saw PT live and they played Anesthetize, I saw with my own eyes Gavin Harrison healing a blind, deaf, mentally handicapped, quadriplegic, ugly, metrosexual asian with the power of his drumming.

Wow, you saw yourself in an out of body experience?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 13, 2010, 10:20:18 AM
shut up, man


no u
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: rumborak on May 13, 2010, 12:49:48 PM
+1 for this project being without MP. MP is always a very strong influence on whatever he partakes in, and SW and MA just strike me as a duo who would be pushing the boundaries with their collaborative project, at the danger of it plain sucking. I don't have the impression MP would have that "artistic zest", if you will.

rumborak
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 13, 2010, 12:52:01 PM
Although MP can be a huge creative force, if you look at OSI or Neal Morse I think you'd find he can also do as he's told and play what others want him to.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 14, 2010, 10:53:59 AM
Although MP can be a huge creative force, if you look at OSI or Neal Morse I think you'd find he can also do as he's told and play what others want him to.

I sort of disagree, he threw a bitchfit over both OSI albums, even Free which he was only a session drummer for. I'll give you Neal Morse though.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 14, 2010, 04:48:24 PM
Although MP can be a huge creative force, if you look at OSI or Neal Morse I think you'd find he can also do as he's told and play what others want him to.

I sort of disagree, he threw a bitchfit over both OSI albums, even Free which he was only a session drummer for. I'll give you Neal Morse though.

I think Mike's relationship with Neal is a bit more friendly than his relationship with Kevin during the making of the first two OSI albums. Mike and Neal tend to bounce ideas off each other all the time. In one video on the making of Sola Scriptura, Mike and Randy are shown talking with Neal about a part and the chord progression he's playing, and Mike suggests things to Neal and they talk it out. It's a very positive environment and it feels like they rarely argue about music, even when Mike has some suggestions.

But if Mike were to enter the studio with Steven and Mikael, who is to say how that would go. Does Mike even KNOW Steven? To my knowledge I don't think they've ever worked on anything together... It would be a different story than OSI or TA/Neal Morse albums.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 14, 2010, 04:56:39 PM
Does Mike even KNOW Steven?
Yes.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 14, 2010, 04:58:57 PM
Does Mike even KNOW Steven?
Yes.

Like, personally, as a friend, etc. etc.? Well I suppose so, I mean, (and I almost for), Steven did contribute an apology to "Repentance", so I suppose they are aquainted.

Still, the chemistry between Mike and the other two would probably shape or change the direction of the music if they choose to involve him in that context.

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 14, 2010, 05:07:57 PM
Please. I'm not one to defend Portnoy, but if you don't think this is people having something against him I don't know what to tell you.
But outside of DT, with musicians like Michael Akerfeldt and Steven Wilson (better musicians who offer far more range in their work) - he's just not needed as a creative influence.

I'm not sure I get this. How are Steve Wilson or Michael Akerfeldt better musicians than the guys in Dream Theater? Petrucci can play guitar better than Wilson or Akerfeldt. LaBrie can sing better than Wilson or Akerfeldt. Jordan can play keys better than either of those guys. And creativity is subjective.  And what is this range you're talking about? I don't see how either Opeth or Porcupine Tree are any more diverse in their respective styles than DT. I'd actually say Opeth is the least diverse in terms of range when compared with DT and PT.

While I can understand why people might thing Mike isn't the best fit, I can't understand how people could think Steven Wilson or Michael Akerfeldt are are somehow "better musicians." Then again, I've never understood what's so great about the "songwriting" of PT or Opeth. I like both of those bands, but not at all for what people call the "songwriting." In my opinion, both those bands are about on the level of DT from a songwriting perspective, aka they're pretty average. And Steve Wilson can be an absolutely fucking terrible lyricists in his worst moment, to the point where I'd rather listen to Systematic Chaos. There, I said it.

But I think it boils down to people, quite ironically, having a very specific idea about how they want this project to sound.  People want this project to be dark, slow, moody, electronic, atmospheric, with prog tendencies to a minimum, etc. I mean, as I'm reading this thread, I'm already getting the impression that people want a mix between Blood and Damnation, with Steve Wilson on vocals.  They want it to be a style that Mike Portnoy hasn't been heard playing too much of, so of course people are going to say they'd rather hear someone who's already done that, like GH, on drums. They don't want to hear Portnoy have a creative influence, which, though a shame, is understandable, especially since (as many here have already pointed out) Portnoy seems to be the only one suggesting he was ever going to be a part of this.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 14, 2010, 05:12:48 PM
Does Mike even KNOW Steven?
Yes.

Like, personally, as a friend, etc. etc.? Well I suppose so, I mean, (and I almost for), Steven did contribute an apology to "Repentance", so I suppose they are aquainted.

Still, the chemistry between Mike and the other two would probably shape or change the direction of the music if they choose to involve him in that context.

-Marc.

My understanding of this is that Mike is kinda an ambassador of prog, who goes around making friends with as many proggers and metal guys as possible.  You can tell that he has a really good relationship with guys like Neal Morse and Michael Akerfeldt and the guys in Hail!, and even Daniel Gildenlow to a certain extent.  Other people seem a bit less receptive to working with Portnoy, and I'd say Steve Wilson is definitely one of those people.  Opeth's Mike is on record saying that MP is his "buddy," but I've never really read Wilson say anything near that extent.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: rumborak on May 14, 2010, 05:48:52 PM
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does. I would find it very surprising if SW had even remote interest in a collaboration with MP, other than just studio drummer.
I could rather see KM jump into the fray (given that Akerfeldt sang on the last OSI album).

rumborak
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 14, 2010, 05:55:59 PM
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent. Probably more so than a lot of the fanbase on both sides is willing to admit. I'd speculate it has something to do with a lot of PT fans being ex DT addicts.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ZBomber on May 14, 2010, 05:57:19 PM
DT is linked on PT's site... pretty sure the two bands (and more specifically Steve and Mike) are on good terms with each other. I know Wilson and Rudess are.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 14, 2010, 06:40:10 PM
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent.
???  They aren't in the same circus.  I agree with rumby.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Gorille85 on May 14, 2010, 06:59:37 PM
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent.
???  They aren't in the same circus.  I agree with rumby.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 14, 2010, 07:21:48 PM
Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree are not under the same tent.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: reneranucci on May 14, 2010, 07:55:21 PM
But if SW wants to do something completely different to PT, why not bringing something with a different musical perspective? I think that was what people were thinking when they said that bringing MP would make more sense than bringing Gavin Harrison. Of course, it can be the case that SW is not interested in Dt´s approach to music, but I think Mike is a really versatile guy (as his taste for music and side projects show) so he can definitely bring something new to the table.

I don´t really care, but I think MP´s side projects have been awesome, so if he does another one, I´ll be happy.

And very nice post PC. I don´t take for granted that SW or MA have better ideas than MP. Especially Mikael, if there is someone who sticks to a formula, I think that´s him. But that´s just my opinion.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 14, 2010, 08:07:47 PM
SW's music is the complete antithesis of what DT does.

How? Granted, they're different, but they're still very much under the same tent.
???  They aren't in the same circus.  I agree with rumby.

I think they are.  They both do prog, granted different styles, and there's a huuuuge overlap in the fanbase.  My generation is used to having new made-up genres for every band that sounds a little bit different than another, but if bands like Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer, and Pink Floyd could fit under the same tent in the 70s I see no reason why Dream Theater and Porcupine Tree can't. Let alone any notions of PT being the "antithesis." I know SW has some weird insecurity about "being too prog," which seems to be the opposite of Dream Theater's approach, but it seems to be mainly people who like progressive music that buy Porcupine Tree albums.

But if SW wants to do something completely different to PT, why not bringing something with a different musical perspective? I think that was what people were thinking when they said that bringing MP would make more sense than bringing Gavin Harrison. Of course, it can be the case that SW is not interested in Dt´s approach to music, but I think Mike is a really versatile guy (as his taste for music and side projects show) so he can definitely bring something new to the table.

I don´t really care, but I think MP´s side projects have been awesome, so if he does another one, I´ll be happy.

And very nice post PC. I don´t take for granted that SW or MA have better ideas than MP. Especially Mikael, if there is someone who sticks to a formula, I think that´s him. But that´s just my opinion.

Yeah, I agree on all points basically. PT, DT, and Opeth seem to have a pretty large shared fan community, and it'd be cool to see these three guys (who, collectively, cover everything progressive music has been in the last two decades) working together and fusing their different styles.  But it's Steve Wilson, I think, who already has strong feelings about what this project is and how it should sound.   
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 14, 2010, 08:10:17 PM
I know SW has some weird insecurity about "being too prog,"

wtf?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: The Letter M on May 14, 2010, 08:14:42 PM
I know SW has some weird insecurity about "being too prog,"

wtf?

SW's been quoted as saying "I don't think we are a progressive rock band. I think we're just a rock band. I think what leads people to give it that kind of progressive tag is the way the songs are produced. That epic quality you referred to. "Even Less" is just a very simple pop song really." (from an interview in 1999 after the release of Stupid Dream).

-Marc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 14, 2010, 08:17:33 PM
That doesn't mean he has some fear about 'being too prog', it means he doesn't consider PT a prog band. And comparing them to something like Yes, ELP, or even DT, I'd agree.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 14, 2010, 08:22:44 PM
That doesn't mean he has some fear about 'being too prog', it means he doesn't consider PT a prog band. And comparing them to something like Yes, ELP, or even DT, I'd agree.

Also, He also didn't want to sing on "Into the Electric Castle" because it was "too prog" for him or something. It's in the linear notes. I thought SW's extreme reluctance toward prog was well-documented and he was only coming around to the label recently?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 14, 2010, 08:30:20 PM
Actually, now that you mention it, I remember he has said that he doesn't like most modern prog, hence why he didn't want to be grouped in with those bands. No idea about The Electric Castle though, Ayreon never did anything for me. hmm.

As for DT vs. PT, I don't really see how you can compare them musically. They share a lot of fans, but for the most part are quite different musically, and the way they approach music is drastically different.

Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Pyroph on May 14, 2010, 08:51:11 PM
I don't see how the fan base is relevant at all in comparing PT to DT.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 14, 2010, 09:16:12 PM
The fanbase thing just helps illustrate how the bands cater to the same market of music listeners.

Look, guys. I went camping with Steve Wilson and Mike Portnoy before, and they shared a tent. OK?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: zxlkho on May 14, 2010, 09:19:16 PM
 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: glaurung on May 14, 2010, 09:40:32 PM
As for DT vs. PT, I don't really see how you can compare them musically. They share a lot of fans, but for the most part are quite different musically, and the way they approach music is drastically different.

I agree with Perpetual Change. If two completely different bands like Yes and Pink Floyd can both be called Progressive Rock I don't see why PT and DT can't be under the same genera either.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 14, 2010, 10:59:58 PM
Being under the same genre doesn't mean you are similar.  Opeth and Metallica are both metal.  Are they really that similar?  Not really.  Same with DT and PT (if you choose to call them both prog).  

Besides, I agree that PT is just a rock band, not a prog band.  They have elements of prog, metal, psychedelia, etc. in their music, but at heart, I think they are a rock band.  Not prog.  Certainly not prog metal.  Just rock.  Most of the time, it is just easier for the sake of discussions to concede the prog label to them, however.

Also, PC, I know you aren't a big PT fan, but to say that DT is as diverse as them just doesn't make a lot of sense.  DT is fairly diverse within their own somewhat narrow scope, if that makes sense, but PT has been all over the map stylistically when looking at each of their albums.  

Lastly, I disagree that a lot of us want this project to sound a specific way.  For me, at least, it is quite the opposite.  With Wilson and Akerfeldt, it could go in so many different directions, each of which is pretty exciting, and the way I see it, if Portnoy were to be involved, especially in a creative sense at all, you know he would try to steer it towards combining the sounds of the three main bands they are all in, rather than trying to go to a place none of them have maybe gone before, which I could see Wilson and Akerfeldt doing on their own.  

 
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 14, 2010, 11:15:09 PM
With Wilson and Akerfeldt, it could go in so many different directions, each of which is pretty exciting, and the way I see it, if Portnoy were to be involved, especially in a creative sense at all, you know he would try to steer it towards combining the sounds of the three main bands they are all in, rather than trying to go to a place none of them have maybe gone before, which I could see Wilson and Akerfeldt doing on their own.   

I don't know if I agree with that, I mean, TA doesn't really sound like a combination of the four bands, but rather a combination of Neal Morse stuff and Flower Kings stuff. I barely hear any DT or Marillion in it. Also, OSI doesn't sound like a mix of Chroma Key, Fates Warning and DT (At least the first album where MP had any say).
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: antigoon on May 14, 2010, 11:37:17 PM
I have a feeling this project is going to be really out there. I can't wait to hear what it is, even if I end up thinking it's shit :lol

As for Portnoy, I don't really see what he could add to this.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 14, 2010, 11:40:28 PM
With Wilson and Akerfeldt, it could go in so many different directions, each of which is pretty exciting, and the way I see it, if Portnoy were to be involved, especially in a creative sense at all, you know he would try to steer it towards combining the sounds of the three main bands they are all in, rather than trying to go to a place none of them have maybe gone before, which I could see Wilson and Akerfeldt doing on their own.   

I don't know if I agree with that, I mean, TA doesn't really sound like a combination of the four bands, but rather a combination of Neal Morse stuff and Flower Kings stuff. I barely hear any DT or Marillion in it. Also, OSI doesn't sound like a mix of Chroma Key, Fates Warning and DT (At least the first album where MP had any say).

I probably could have and should have worded what I said a bit better.  But I am freaking tired right now, so I'll try to say it better when I am more awake. :lol :biggrin:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: RandalGraves on May 15, 2010, 06:18:30 AM
As for Portnoy, I don't really see what he could add to this.

Drums, probably.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 07:03:06 AM
Also, PC, I know you aren't a big PT fan, but to say that DT is as diverse as them just doesn't make a lot of sense.  DT is fairly diverse within their own somewhat narrow scope, if that makes sense, but PT has been all over the map stylistically when looking at each of their albums.  

Dream Theater have been all over the map.  Or, maybe, I should say Dream Theater used to be all over the map.  I think it's unfair to judge DT simply based on their most recent output, but I can how SC and BC&SL would make one think that they're primarily a metal band.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 15, 2010, 07:27:39 AM
Dream Theater have been all over the map.  Or, maybe, I should say Dream Theater used to be all over the map.  I think it's unfair to judge DT simply based on their most recent output, but I can how SC and BC&SL would make one think that they're primarily a metal band.
I have a feeling Kev's been a DT fan long enough he doesn't judge them just by current output  :biggrin:

And now, just because, I'm going to break down each band's album stylistically:
DT
1. WDADU-80s style prog with a bit of Maiden and Rush
2. Images-Epic sounds, progressive metal.
3. Awake-BALLSBALLSBALLS less prog
4. Falling Into Infinity-More of a rock album than anything.
5. Scenes-Their most "rocking" album to date, with more prog than metal
6. 6DoiT-Super Prog
7. Train of Thought-Super Metal/Technicality
8. Octavairum-More prog pop than anything, but tracks 5-7 bring some heaviness
9. Systematic Chaos-Prog Metal with monsters.  BALLS
10. Black Clouds-Epic prog metal

PT
1. OtSoL-Psychedelic
2. UtD-Psychedelic
3. TSMS-Pink Floyd-style psychedelic prog
4. Signify-Moving on to something heavier, exploring more pop elements
5. Stupid Dream-Pop elements but still clinging on to some psychedelic weirdness
6. Lightbulb Sun-Probably the closest to a pop album, but features their first blatant prog song.
7. In Absentia-Metal, with some pop and atmosphere thrown in.
8. Deadwing-A combination of LBS and IA's styles
9. FOABP-Heaviest to date, most prog-sounding too.
10. TI-Still pretty heavy but totally different from Fear's style.

Just from doing that, I couldn't really find myself describing DT's music outside of "rock, prog, metal" while PT's has gone through so many phases that usually wouldn't be caught in the same room together.  While DT has explored different styles, they've always stayed in their niche, while PT, especially early on, has just sort of gone for it and it just magically sounds perfect for them.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 15, 2010, 08:14:17 AM
Really funny you posted that SkyDive, because before you did I started a post that basically said the exact same thing:

Whatever the proportions, all DT albums are metal, prog or rock.

Porcupine Tree have introduced brand new genres to their sound multiple times over the course of their career. They are truly all over the map.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 08:46:08 AM
Well, then it's a good thing Mike Portnoy has been all over the map, playing in acts as varied as DT, TA, OSI and LTE.  ;D
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 15, 2010, 09:17:59 AM
Dream Theater have been all over the map.  Or, maybe, I should say Dream Theater used to be all over the map.  I think it's unfair to judge DT simply based on their most recent output, but I can how SC and BC&SL would make one think that they're primarily a metal band.
I have a feeling Kev's been a DT fan long enough he doesn't judge them just by current output  :biggrin:

:lol Exactly!

Just from doing that, I couldn't really find myself describing DT's music outside of "rock, prog, metal" while PT's has gone through so many phases that usually wouldn't be caught in the same room together.  While DT has explored different styles, they've always stayed in their niche, while PT, especially early on, has just sort of gone for it and it just magically sounds perfect for them.

Well-said. :tup :tup

Well, then it's a good thing Mike Portnoy has been all over the map, playing in acts as varied as DT, TA, OSI and LTE.  ;D

Yes, and he has been a dominant songwriter and/or major creative force with all of those bands!  :lol :biggrin:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 10:02:48 AM
Kev, that kinda just proves my point.  Why would the drummer have a big creative influence over this project? People just don't think Mike can do it, or think the drummer has a lot more influence than he really does.  Which is pretty weird if you ask me.

Also, for the list, how about:

Quote
1. WDADU-80s style prog with a bit of Maiden and Rush and Marillion???
2. Images-Epic sounds, progressive metal. Symphonic Metal, "Classical," Funk, Kansas type sounds, piano ballads, power ballads???
3. Awake-BALLSBALLSBALLS less prog How about grundge, more jazz, more symphonic, electronic, acoustic???
4. Falling Into Infinity-More of a rock album than anything. Pop and light rock, grunge, more Rush and PF influences, more funk and bluesy type stuff???
5. Scenes-Their most "rocking" album to date, with more prog than metalBombastic, "light" rock, spiritual/gospel, "eastern" sounds, QUEEN, ragtime, psychedelic, etc ???
6. 6DoiT-Super Prog First disc? THere's electronic, thrash, more eastern influences, a big step into experimental radiohead-esque directions, seriously, there's stuff the band never did before and never did again on this album???
7. Train of Thought-Super Metal/Technicality More of those eastern and modern nu metal influences going on, symphonic, even some rap (ugh)
8. Octavairum-More prog pop than anything, but tracks 5-7 bring some heaviness Also more grunge, more ballads, more nu-metal, more symphonic, more 70s prog, more bombastic stuff, MUSE
9. Systematic Chaos-Prog Metal with monsters.  BALLS Also, a big step in a symphonic metal direction; also takes a few pages out of newer prog-metal playbook, Mastadon and Lamb of God influences, while taking a step back to 80s prog and fantasy lyrics; also explores Opeth/PT territory

Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ZBomber on May 15, 2010, 10:19:45 AM
^^ If you're going to break it down that much, and you did the same for PT, I would still say that PT has been more "all over the map".
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 15, 2010, 10:21:28 AM
I think that, while DT may have been more all over the place in the past, they are going to be in the same place that they are now for the rest of their career. PT on the other hand, will continue to change and evolve.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 10:27:39 AM
I think that, while DT may have been more all over the place in the past, they are going to be in the same place that they are now for the rest of their career. PT on the other hand, will continue to change and evolve.

I'd agree. It's unfortunate, but true.  On the upside, Dream Theater are in a good place now, where IN MY OPINION, Porcupine Tree keep changing for the worse.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: InTheNameOfGod on May 15, 2010, 10:33:29 AM
I think that, while DT may have been more all over the place in the past, they are going to be in the same place that they are now for the rest of their career. PT on the other hand, will continue to change and evolve.

I'd agree. It's unfortunate, but true.  On the upside, Dream Theater are in a good place now, where IN MY OPINION, Porcupine Tree keep changing for the worse.

The key word is 'changing'.

Dream Theater haven't done anything new in years.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 15, 2010, 10:34:35 AM
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Zantera on May 15, 2010, 10:35:12 AM
I think both bands are kinda in a 'weird' place right now.
The Incident was mindblowing at first, but now i wouldn't rank it higher then place 5 or 6 amongst the PT-albums, as for DT... i really liked BC&SL, but it wasn't AS good as earlier albums like 6DOIT or Awake.
Both bands should step up for the next album imo.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 15, 2010, 10:44:34 AM
PT did step it up on The Incident, which was a fairly sizable upgrade over the very good Fear of a Blank Planet.  And while Black Clouds and Silver Linings might not been on the level of DT's best three or four records, it was still a big upgrade over everything they had done since 2002, so I think both bands are in a good place right now, relatively speaking.  You can't expect bands to keep releasing their best album this deep into their careers.  But both bands have been around for roughly 20 years now, and both of their newest albums are in the upper half of their respective catalogs, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 10:45:10 AM
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think so. I grew up listening to those bands. DT borrowed just as much from those bands in the 90s as they borrowed from Tool and Radiohead in the late 90s and 00s and Muse and such on the last few albums.  

And maybe I'm being tough on PT by saying they're getting progressively worse. The Incident is a step up from Fear, but Fear is far from good.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: King Postwhore on May 15, 2010, 10:47:24 AM
PT did step it up on The Incident, which was a fairly sizable upgrade over the very good Fear of a Blank Planet.  And while Black Clouds and Silver Linings might not been on the level of DT's best three or four records, it was still a big upgrade over everything they had done since 2002, so I think both bands are in a good place right now, relatively speaking.  You can't expect bands to keep releasing their best album this deep into their careers.  But both bands have been around for roughly 20 years now, and both of their newest albums are in the upper half of their respective catalogs, if you ask me.

This.  Besides, I don't want my bands to stay the same.  Leave that to AC/DC.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 15, 2010, 10:52:18 AM
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think so. I grew up listening to those bands. DT borrowed just as much from those bands in the 90s as they borrowed from Tool and Radiohead in the late 90s and 00s and Muse and such on the last few albums.  

Sorry, but I don't see that at all.  I think that was an overreaction by many to any band doing hard rocking or heavy stuff in the 90s.  It was like, "Oh, grunge is the popular fad subgere right now, so any band that is doing hard rock riffs must be doing grunge."  I have seen some say that about Rush's 90s material, which I also find to be absurd.  What DT songs are grunge, if I may ask?  I would submit that the hardest and heaviest riffs DT did in the 90s were influenced by their original influences - Metallica, Rush, Iron Maiden, etc.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ZBomber on May 15, 2010, 10:56:46 AM
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think so. I grew up listening to those bands. DT borrowed just as much from those bands in the 90s as they borrowed from Tool and Radiohead in the late 90s and 00s and Muse and such on the last few albums.  

And maybe I'm being tough on PT by saying they're getting progressively worse. The Incident is a step up from Fear, but Fear is far from good.

I think a lot of 90s bands incorporated "grunge elements" into their music... same with Rush on Counterparts. The music itself is not grunge, but you can hear a little bit of the 90's grunge sound in some of the songs of Awake or Counterparts.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Zantera on May 15, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
TI was a step down from FOABP imo.
I really loved it at first, but as i said, it didn't come close in the end to match the awesomeness of albums like Fear of a Blank Planet, Signify or Up the Downstair for example.
The song-cycle is great, but i don't think the songs individually can compete with older stuff.
The only songs on it, that i think works good individually are "Time Flies" and "I Drive the Hearse", the rest of the song-cycle is pretty dull, EXCEPT for when listening to the whole thing.
But as for FOABP, it's great overall, but the songs also work very well individually.
Lots of songs on TI get's loads of praise, but i think songs like "The Blind House", "Drawing the Line" and "Octane Twisted" (just to name a few) are pretty mediocre by PT-standards.
CD2 is very solid though, i prefer it over the first disc.

Overall, i'd say my biggest problem with the album is the fact that it doesn't really bring anything new to the table.
Surely you can point out the fact that they did a 55 min song-cycle (which was new), or the song-writing skill that has increased a lot, but if you look at it from a neutral point of view, it's like a "best of PT".
The metal-parts are heavier then earlier, the melodies are catchier, but overall it's still a PT-sound we're familiar with, hopefully PT will do something completely new (soundwise) next time, because even though i don't dislike their current sound, i still like evolution. :P
And also, i'm no 'The Incident-hater' by any means, i think it's a pretty awesome album.
'Just' awesome by PT-standards though. :>

BC&SL was great, but i would prefer to see their next album a bit more mixed between shorter/longer songs, i think it's a good balance if only one or two songs have the epic-length.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 11:01:10 AM
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think so. I grew up listening to those bands. DT borrowed just as much from those bands in the 90s as they borrowed from Tool and Radiohead in the late 90s and 00s and Muse and such on the last few albums.  

Sorry, but I don't see that at all.  I think that was an overreaction by many to any band doing hard rocking or heavy stuff in the 90s.  It was like, "Oh, grunge is the popular fad subgere right now, so any band that is doing hard rock riffs must be doing grunge."  I have seen some say that about Rush's 90s material, which I also find to be absurd.  What DT songs are grunge, if I may ask?  I would submit that the hardest and heaviest riffs DT did in the 90s were influenced by their original influences - Metallica, Rush, Iron Maiden, etc.


Grunge is a hard genre to pin down, because none of the grunge bands really sound too much like each other, but I always thought Caught in a Web, Lie, Burning My Soul and New Millenium had some pretty strong grunge influences showing.  Not surprising at all they did that grunge medley with CIAW.

And the grunge bands were metal bands that were just heavier and more downtrodden.  I think people give grunge way too much credit for being different than metal when, really, it was just an attitude change.  The change of attitude in DT from Images to Awake is pretty noticeable.  Not only that, but John says on the commentary during the Lie video that they were fully into their grunge phase at that point.  
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: King Postwhore on May 15, 2010, 11:05:34 AM
It wasn't that they took the style of grunge but the recording stlye of the times.  Dry vocals, less solo's, louder volumes, less separation in the instruments.  That happens to every band that last 30 some odd years.

Rush for example, 70's, extended songs, 80's digital sounding albums with more keyboards, 90's dryer sound ect.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Pirate on May 15, 2010, 11:11:32 AM
If SW releases another TSMSW I'll be  :hefdaddy
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 15, 2010, 04:58:12 PM
PC if I wanted to dissect every album song by song it would take forever.  That's why I simplified it to what the album as a whole felt like.  Maybe with 6DoiT I could have put "some experimentation," but that's it.  Because "Home" has that sitar-sounding intro doesn't mean Scenes as a whole is an "eastern" sounding album, just like how "Hatesong" and "Russia on Ice" have those heavy sections, but they don't make LBS metal.

Now I'm not trying to say I would be opposed to Mike drumming for this.  It would get him out of his comfort zone (which he has been in with each of those side projects), and really get some creative juices flowing for the next DT album.  But saying MP/DT explore radically different styles the way PT has is just crazy.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 15, 2010, 06:55:45 PM
DT has done grunge?  Haha, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think so. I grew up listening to those bands. DT borrowed just as much from those bands in the 90s as they borrowed from Tool and Radiohead in the late 90s and 00s and Muse and such on the last few albums.  

Sorry, but I don't see that at all.  I think that was an overreaction by many to any band doing hard rocking or heavy stuff in the 90s.  It was like, "Oh, grunge is the popular fad subgere right now, so any band that is doing hard rock riffs must be doing grunge."  I have seen some say that about Rush's 90s material, which I also find to be absurd.  What DT songs are grunge, if I may ask?  I would submit that the hardest and heaviest riffs DT did in the 90s were influenced by their original influences - Metallica, Rush, Iron Maiden, etc.


Grunge is a hard genre to pin down, because none of the grunge bands really sound too much like each other, but I always thought Caught in a Web, Lie, Burning My Soul and New Millenium had some pretty strong grunge influences showing.  Not surprising at all they did that grunge medley with CIAW.

And the grunge bands were metal bands that were just heavier and more downtrodden.  I think people give grunge way too much credit for being different than metal when, really, it was just an attitude change.  The change of attitude in DT from Images to Awake is pretty noticeable.  Not only that, but John says on the commentary during the Lie video that they were fully into their grunge phase at that point.  
He was joking.

There is no grunge influence on Awake.  I have no idea what you're talking about.  "That grunge medley with CIAW" was industrial, not grunge.  If anything, DT was the anti-grunge; they could play their instruments.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ReaperKK on May 15, 2010, 07:18:46 PM
They are very talented musicans and writers, I just hope they find a good vocalist to work with  :)

This, if Akerfeldt keeps the RORORORO out of this I'll be happy.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 15, 2010, 07:21:50 PM
There is no grunge influence on Awake.  I have no idea what you're talking about.  "That grunge medley with CIAW" was industrial, not grunge.  If anything, DT was the anti-grunge; they could play their instruments.

Alice in Chains, (early) Tool, and Soundgarden were part of grunge. Nine Inch Nails is the only band in that medley remotely resembling electronica. I have no reason to believe John was joking.  I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 15, 2010, 10:55:43 PM
There is no grunge influence on Awake.  I have no idea what you're talking about. 

QFT.  And I have to think that Petrucci was being sarcastic when he said that, as I doubt anyone actually thinks DT ever had a grunge phase (even if you think that a supposed grunge influence actually crept its way into their music).  Sorry, PC, but I think you are way off base here.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 16, 2010, 05:12:04 AM
There is no grunge influence on Awake.  I have no idea what you're talking about.  "That grunge medley with CIAW" was industrial, not grunge.  If anything, DT was the anti-grunge; they could play their instruments.

Alice in Chains, (early) Tool, and Soundgarden were part of grunge. Nine Inch Nails is the only band in that medley remotely resembling electronica. I have no reason to believe John was joking.  I have no idea what you're talking about.
What are you talking about with AIC, Tool, Soundgarden, and NIN?  Are we talking about 2 different things?  Because I was talking about the reworking of CIAW to Caught in Alice's Nine-Inch Tool Garden.  That eventually became the basis of New Millenium.  That's not grunge, and if you think it is, well, you're the only one.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 16, 2010, 07:38:46 AM
To quote hefdaddy, "There is no grunge influence on Awake. I have no idea what you're talking about".

In regards to the direction Porcupine Tree is moving in, their albums have been getting gradually worse with every album since Lightbulb Sun, except for the recent rise that is The Incident. So I suppose I agree their current career trajectory is not good. But it doesn't bother me that much because every album, with the possible exception of Fear of a Blank Planet, has moments of genius.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 16, 2010, 08:14:24 AM
There is no grunge influence on Awake.  I have no idea what you're talking about.  "That grunge medley with CIAW" was industrial, not grunge.  If anything, DT was the anti-grunge; they could play their instruments.

Alice in Chains, (early) Tool, and Soundgarden were part of grunge. Nine Inch Nails is the only band in that medley remotely resembling electronica. I have no reason to believe John was joking.  I have no idea what you're talking about.
What are you talking about with AIC, Tool, Soundgarden, and NIN?  Are we talking about 2 different things?  Because I was talking about the reworking of CIAW to Caught in Alice's Nine-Inch Tool Garden.  That eventually became the basis of New Millenium.  That's not grunge, and if you think it is, well, you're the only one.

That's just not true. Do you listen to Alice in Chains, Tool, Soundgarden, or Nine Inch Nails? Because, as someone who grew up on listening to my dad and brother's grunge records, I haven't been able to relate to anything you've said about grunge in this thread.
Quote
In regards to the direction Porcupine Tree is moving in, their albums have been getting gradually worse with every album since Lightbulb Sun, except for the recent rise that is The Incident. So I suppose I agree their current career trajectory is not good. But it doesn't bother me that much because every album, with the possible exception of Fear of a Blank Planet, has moments of genius.  

I agree except for the fact that Deadwing is the Best Them.

On another note, was listening to Duel With the Devil today. Specifically the You're Not Alone part and afterwards.  Anyone who thinks Mike is somehow less capable than Gavin needs to listen to his drumming here immediately. Start around 16:00.


Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 16, 2010, 08:57:19 AM
Two obvious rebuttals to that argument:

1) "Duel with the Devil" is from 2001. We are not talking about 2001. We are talking about now. Portnoy, for reasons unknown, is not as good a drummer as he used to be.

2) I don't know how GH and MP stack up if we are comparing their best moments, parts, stretches, etc. But when entire albums and songs are taken into consideration, Harrison is infinitely more interesting.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 16, 2010, 09:04:12 AM
Two obvious rebuttals to that argument:

1) "Duel with the Devil" is from 2001. We are not talking about 2001. We are talking about now. Portnoy, for reasons unknown, is not as good a drummer as he used to be.


I don't know! He seemed pretty good at playing it a couple weeks ago when I saw it  ;D
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Global Laziness on May 16, 2010, 09:26:04 PM
Portnoy, for reasons unknown, is not as good a drummer as he used to be.

What makes you say that?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 16, 2010, 09:42:55 PM
I'd say his drumming just doesn't feel as creative anymore.  I for one feel like BC&SL doesn't add anything especially new and awesome to the table drumming-wise.  Its great drumming and fits the music perfectly, don't get me wrong, but there wasn't anything breathtaking to me.  TOX might have some other reasons.  Like I've said, this problem is perfect because if he was involved in this project, I'm sure it would force him to think outside of his comfort zone, which would more than likely benefit DT in some way.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Global Laziness on May 16, 2010, 09:45:47 PM
Funny, I thought his drumming on Black Clouds was a step up from Dream Theater's previous two albums.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 16, 2010, 09:47:40 PM
Funny, I thought his drumming on Black Clouds was a step up from Dream Theater's previous two albums.

As did I. Granted there's not a heck of a lot of room to show your range over metal, some of the fills and cymbal work on the album is fantastic.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 16, 2010, 09:51:54 PM
Quote from: InTheNameOfGod
Dream Theater haven't done anything new in years.

:rollin

Good one, tell another.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: bout to crash on May 16, 2010, 10:16:11 PM
Eh, I do feel like the new stuff lacks innovation for the most part.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Pirate on May 17, 2010, 04:58:29 AM
Okay. It's time for the member who won the the last MP-GH argument to step in.

First of all, I have no idea if it means anything to the non-drummer, but in pretty much any practicing drummer's mind, Gavin is the more capable, more exciting, more knowledgeable, more prolific drummer.

Aside from that, I think anyone can see that Gavin is more experienced, and Mike is more exciting. Gavin is more versatile and Mike is more stylized. I imagine if a drummer showed a non-drummer a clip of MP drumming, the non-drummer would say something like, "He's fast!". If he was showed a clip of GH, he'd say something like, "How the fuck did he do that?" or "What the fuck just happened?"

If you haven't heard them already and are interested in Gavin's work, I recommend his albums wih 05Ric. TO truly understand the nature of Gavin's approach to drumming, watch his DVD's.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SPNKr on May 17, 2010, 05:04:14 AM
Gavin is the more capable, more exciting, more knowledgeable, more prolific drummer.

Absolutely, I'm not a drummer but his stuff is just completely different in the music world today and before. Definitely can tell the difference with drummers like this.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TheOutlawXanadu on May 17, 2010, 06:20:41 AM
Portnoy, for reasons unknown, is not as good a drummer as he used to be.

What makes you say that?

They simply do not sound as good to me. I cannot go into more detail because I do not know anything about drums.

One example I can provide however, is that on old Dream Theater albums there would always be at least one moment where, suddenly, out of nowhere, the drumming would become so awesome I would stop merely hearing them and begin listening to them, and be floored. "Lines in the Sand", "Fatal Tragedy", etc.

I cannot think of any examples like that on recent albums.

Another explanation is that my prog-ish listening is has become very limited in recent years, so the only guys I really have to compare to Portnoy are Gavin Harrison, Martin Lopez and Neal Peart, each of whom is infinitely more interesting than Portnoy. Harrison because he is simply better, Lopez because of his amazing use of double bass and jazzy style inside of the death metal genre, and Peart because... well... they don't call you the GOAT for nothing.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Portrucci on May 17, 2010, 06:27:46 AM
GH is clearly better. MP even admits he barely practices now-days, and it shows. GH is quite the opposite, with his own big kit in his own studio, he practices fairly regularly IIRC. I am a drummer, and comparing 2009 releases like OSI - Blood to DT - BC&SL, GH's drumming is infinitely more interesting. I don't think it's the complex parts either. It's the way GH can make a simple 4/4 passage sound a lot more interesting that it should be. MP doesn't really have that ability and relies heavily on odd-timed passages of the music to show off his drumming.

Regardless, I still think MP is a great drummer, and whether he does or does not work on this project will hopefully have little to no bearing on the end quality of that project.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: reneranucci on May 17, 2010, 06:37:59 AM
Well, those are only opinions. I´ve always found MP much more interesting, and IMO his whole catalog surpasses Gavin´s.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 17, 2010, 08:08:22 AM
I think there's plenty of awesome drumming going on in Black Clouds.  Just on ANtR, I can think of those cymbal fills over the riff before the vocals come in. The whole beautiful agony section. The stuff Mike is playing of that instrumental (read: not the solo) section.

Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 17, 2010, 08:48:12 AM
Funny, I thought his drumming on Black Clouds was a step up from Dream Theater's previous two albums.

It's funny how the playing sounds so much better when the songwriting is so much better. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: ReaperKK on May 17, 2010, 08:54:37 AM
This is what my buddy said about GH and MP in terms of their drumming and I completely agree.

MP is a like Stephen King, just pumping out work, some of it is great but most of it is just passable.

GH is more like a guy who writes a lot less, but when he does, it's epic and always blows you away.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 17, 2010, 09:59:24 AM
Do you listen to Alice in Chains, Tool, Soundgarden, or Nine Inch Nails?
Not NIN so much, but the others, sure.

Because, as someone who grew up on listening to my dad and brother's grunge records, I haven't been able to relate to anything you've said about grunge in this thread.
Well, I didn't listen my dad and brother's grunge records, I listened to my own, because I was in my early twenties when all of that stuff was coming out.  I don't know anyone that ever accused Tool of being grunge other than you.  Alice In Chains was associated with grunge because they were from Seattle, but they were a lot different than the other bands with that label.  And although they did some weird industrial thing with that version of CIAW, and I know that they liked AIC because I've seen film of them soundchecking by playing "Would?", there is still no grunge influence on Awake.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 17, 2010, 10:19:13 AM
I think Opiate and Undertow are very grungy albums; of course I admit that Tool's sound evolved way beyond the typical grunge parameters later on.  As far as Alice in Chains goes, they were just as similar as any of the other grunge bands.  Seriously. Alice and Chains are no more different from Soundgarden and Pearl Jam than those bands were different to each other-- or Nirvana.  

But great! You mentioned Would?. Now, I direct your attention to The Mirror, around the 5:30 mark.  Hear that low, rumbling bassline under the single, heavy chord being held out? It doesn't sound like Would?, but the style is undeniably similar and typically grunge. Likewise, the heavy eastern riff and tribal-sounding drumming in New Millennium is pretty grunge as is the last verse of Burning My Soul(The one that ends with, 'But I don't give a shit, No!"). Moreover, the Mirror features that heavy, sludging, low tempo riff right before John's solo. Or, how about this? Listen to You Not Me, and then listen to Soundgarden's Let Me Drown. Of course, Dream Theater add their prog elements to everything (as they do with all the genres that influence them)-- but the outside influence is definitely there!

Anyway, all these parts sound very grunge to me. Moreover, songs from Awake and afterwards sometimes feature a grungy style which Dream Theater were not known for at all before grunge became popular after the release of Images and Words.  Did DT become grunge? No. Were the influenced by it? Well, considering that John P has said so, and considering that after grunge became popular certain parts of Dream Theater songs began to feature a grunge sound, I stick by my original statement.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Pirate on May 17, 2010, 06:50:36 PM
Well, those are only opinions. I´ve always found MP much more interesting, and IMO his whole catalog surpasses Gavin´s.
What do you consider Gavin's "whole catalog"?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SPNKr on May 18, 2010, 04:54:33 AM
:lol @ this thread.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: moffatt on May 18, 2010, 05:01:09 AM
MP over GH ANY day.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: PixelDream on May 18, 2010, 08:46:44 AM
I think Opiate and Undertow are very grungy albums; of course I admit that Tool's sound evolved way beyond the typical grunge parameters later on.  As far as Alice in Chains goes, they were just as similar as any of the other grunge bands.  Seriously. Alice and Chains are no more different from Soundgarden and Pearl Jam than those bands were different to each other-- or Nirvana.  

But great! You mentioned Would?. Now, I direct your attention to The Mirror, around the 5:30 mark.  Hear that low, rumbling bassline under the single, heavy chord being held out? It doesn't sound like Would?, but the style is undeniably similar and typically grunge. Likewise, the heavy eastern riff and tribal-sounding drumming in New Millennium is pretty grunge as is the last verse of Burning My Soul(The one that ends with, 'But I don't give a shit, No!"). Moreover, the Mirror features that heavy, sludging, low tempo riff right before John's solo. Or, how about this? Listen to You Not Me, and then listen to Soundgarden's Let Me Drown. Of course, Dream Theater add their prog elements to everything (as they do with all the genres that influence them)-- but the outside influence is definitely there!

Anyway, all these parts sound very grunge to me. Moreover, songs from Awake and afterwards sometimes feature a grungy style which Dream Theater were not known for at all before grunge became popular after the release of Images and Words.  Did DT become grunge? No. Were the influenced by it? Well, considering that John P has said so, and considering that after grunge became popular certain parts of Dream Theater songs began to feature a grunge sound, I stick by my original statement.

I didn't need this explanation to realise that there have been some grunge-y sounds and passages in DT's work. I'm baffled you even took the effort to explain this extremely obvious thing to these guys. But thanks anyway, and I'm definately awaiting their reaction (where are you guys now?). The examples you used are great, especially the 'Let me Drown' one.

Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Global Laziness on May 18, 2010, 08:49:27 AM
Oh FFS. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2010, 09:05:50 AM
I didn't need this explanation to realise that there have been some grunge-y sounds and passages in DT's work. I'm baffled you even took the effort to explain this extremely obvious thing to these guys. But thanks anyway, and I'm definately awaiting their reaction (where are you guys now?). The examples you used are great, especially the 'Let me Drown' one.

Where are we now?  Uh, I for one am right here, and I am sure hef is around here somewhere. :biggrin:

Besides, PC is the one who still thinks Petrucci was being serious when he jokingly said that DT was in their full grunge phase, and is now using obscure parts of songs (these 2 seconds here or this one drum pattern right here) to try and prove his point.  The examples he gave...saying that stuff is grunge, someone could just as easily say that those parts were influenced by hard rock or metal, but he is taking Petrucci's comment seriously and then making direct correlations simply to make his point look more legit than it really is. 
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: antigoon on May 18, 2010, 10:05:16 AM
I like that there are currently three or four simultaneous arguments going on in this thread. Great fun!

:corn:
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 18, 2010, 10:44:44 AM
I didn't need this explanation to realise that there have been some grunge-y sounds and passages in DT's work. I'm baffled you even took the effort to explain this extremely obvious thing to these guys. But thanks anyway, and I'm definately awaiting their reaction (where are you guys now?). The examples you used are great, especially the 'Let me Drown' one.

Thanks. I've always thought it was obvious too.  And no, aside from the point I made, I'm not going to bother arguing about it anymore.  Especially if people are just gonna half-ass responses (as Kev just did). I do want to point out that. for the longest time, Dream Theater showed their influences through small passages.  It wasn't until maybe 8va that they started doing whole songs that were ripped off other styles. So yeah, Kev, a passage like the one in The Mirror is important, even if it only lasts a couple of seconds. Especially since, like I said, it's something they never had gone to before that kind of style was popular.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: rumborak on May 18, 2010, 12:53:00 PM
Given the stretched argument it already is to label certain DT snippets as "grunge", it can hardly serve as a basis for saying DT's music is as widely-ranged as PT's.


rumborak
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 18, 2010, 12:59:22 PM
Totally agree, rumborak. :tup :tup

And, PC, I am sorry if you feel that my response was half-assed, but the fact that you still think that JP was being serious with that comment is rather silly, and it is hard to take your overall view on this without a few grains of salt, considering that. 

Let's assume for the sake of argument that all of your grunge examples are correct: do you still think that that means that Dream Theater had a grunge phase?  Really?  Saying DT had a grunge phase because they might have had a few instances where grunge creeped into their music for a brief spell is like saying that they also had a ragtime phase because of JR's few instances of ragtime piano.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 18, 2010, 01:25:01 PM
Kev, I never even said DT had a grunge phase.  I said that grunge influenced them, which I think is pretty obvious.  If when Hef said "John was joking" he meant "John was exaggerating when he used the word 'phase' (if that's even what he actually said, i don't know)" then I can agree with that.    The whole reason we're having this discussion is because you and Hef argued that there's no grunge influence on DT.  Now that I've bothered trying to point out examples, you're shifting the discussion to "Hey everyone, PC thinks DT had a grunge phase. LOL."

Like I said, I'm not gonna talk about it if you're gonna be half-assed. If you want to say things like You Not Me or that grungy part of the Mirror came from somewhere else, then fine. Bring up some bands and songs that preceded the grunge-era and let's talk music.  Maybe I'm wrong, and people were doing things like that before the grunge bands were. But if you guys are just going to try and semantically show me up, I'm not going to play.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 18, 2010, 01:31:25 PM
WTF happened to this thread?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: rumborak on May 18, 2010, 01:48:15 PM
Looking at the triangle spanned by Up the Downstair, Lightbulb Sun and Fear of a Blank Planet, DT's triangle is about half the size of that.

rumborak
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2010, 02:20:21 PM
PC, none of the examples you pointed out are indigenous to grunge music.  You are hearing things that are done in DT's music that are also heard in grunge music and drawing connections where there aren't any, because the grunge guys didn't invent them. 

Most of the musical elements that set grunge apart from other forms of rock music are almost antithetical to DT's style.  DT was "influenced" by some of the same groups that influenced some of the grunge artists, and that might be what you're hearing.  But as someone who lived through in real time both DT's rise and the rise of grunge, I can truly say that you are the first person I have ever seen make any connection between the two.

Be that as it may, think whatever you want.  It's obvious that you are very passionate about your stance, and I really don't have much interest in continuing a discussion that I can't even believe is happening in the first place.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 18, 2010, 02:30:31 PM
DT was "influenced" by some of the same groups that influenced some of the grunge artists, and that might be what you're hearing.

Who?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2010, 02:35:12 PM
DT was "influenced" by some of the same groups that influenced some of the grunge artists, and that might be what you're hearing.

Who?
Well, early heavy metal music was an influence on grunge (although obviously not as big an influence as punk or indie rock), and was obviously also an influence on DT (along with progressive rock) - specifically I'm thinking of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, but I'm sure there are others.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 18, 2010, 03:07:35 PM
Don't forget King Crimson's Red as influence on Kurt Cobain.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
Don't forget King Crimson's Red as influence on Kurt Cobain.
Hey, there's one I didn't know (although sonically, it makes sense now that you say that).
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 18, 2010, 04:21:27 PM
DT was "influenced" by some of the same groups that influenced some of the grunge artists, and that might be what you're hearing.

Who?
Well, early heavy metal music was an influence on grunge (although obviously not as big an influence as punk or indie rock), and was obviously also an influence on DT (along with progressive rock) - specifically I'm thinking of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, but I'm sure there are others.

Hm. I'm not really acquainted with Black Sabbath, aside from the singles, and while I can see how they could have been a big influence, I'm still reluctant to let go of the idea that the grunge bands also influenced DT.

Given that Dream Theater seem to have let every other major style of rock influence them during its time (Maiden and Queensryche in the 80s, Tool and Radiohead in the 90s and 00s, Muse and, unfortunately, "mall" metal recently) I don't know why they'd decide to completely ignore the fad that was taking over rock in the early-mid 90s, especially when it's well documented the label wanted them to be more mainstream.   Then again, as someone who was only 7 when Superunknown was released, I don't fully understand that whole grunge vs. metal issue anyway, and I wouldn't put it past DT to have tried to break into the mainstream audience by adapting a heavier, grungier sound regardless of what principles metal bands were supposed to hold themselves to at that time.  Especially since, as me and others have mentioned, they were already making nods to bands like Alice in Chains on the Awake tour.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2010, 05:00:19 PM
I don't see a Radiohead influence, either.  Can you point to something?

And I don't see much of a Tool influence, either.  I mean, The Great Debate sounds like DT trying to be Tool, and Home has the 46 & 2 lift, but nothing other than that.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 18, 2010, 05:40:49 PM
I don't see a Radiohead influence, either.  Can you point to something?

Radiohead were one of the bands MP explicitly showed in the corner of inspiration on The Making of SDOIT. I'm not sure how that came across, but "Disappear" kinda reminds me of "Exit Music" in minor ways. Again, not sure how exactly the Radiohead influence came across, but it's something that was cited by Mike.

Quote
And I don't see much of a Tool influence, either.  I mean, The Great Debate sounds like DT trying to be Tool, and Home has the 46 & 2 lift, but nothing other than that.

Yup. I know what you mean. But that's how it seems to go when mainstream bands influence DT. I mean, like the whole Muse thing. DT have undoubtedly been influenced by Muse, but the most it shows is three songs which happen to open with arppeggiated eight notes. But I'm sure Mike would readily admit the influence is there. 

Same with the grunge stuff.  I'm sure it's there, but maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining how much of an influence I thought it had.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 18, 2010, 06:30:11 PM
*shrugs*
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: MetalManiac666 on May 18, 2010, 08:51:04 PM
What was this thread about again?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: PixelDream on May 19, 2010, 03:36:41 AM
I've listened to 'Superunknown' too, and it's no coincidence that on Awake, JLB suddenly sings with a raspier voice than usual, and the music is a bit tougher and nonchalant. The remark about DT being totally different because they're all about 'playing their instruments' is not a good one. Pearl Jam and Soundgarden for example feature musicians who are entirely capable of playing their instruments and writing intelligent songs. Yes, these bands are generally associated with 'grunge', what are you gonna do?

With 'grunge phase', JP probably meant that they were into some grunge bands. Some of that attitude and aesthetic may have leaked through into DT's music. It ain't that hard to understand. But instead, these guys have to make you look ridiculous with things like '*shrugs*' and 'I have no idea what you're talking about'. Just let the high-postcount-wise-asses have their win, PC. I'm sure they're just as cool and sophisticated in real life.

Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SPNKr on May 19, 2010, 04:02:51 AM
I've listened to 'Superunknown' too, and it's no coincidence that on Awake, JLB suddenly sings with a raspier voice than usual, and the music is a bit tougher and nonchalant. The remark about DT being totally different because they're all about 'playing their instruments' is not a good one. Pearl Jam and Soundgarden for example feature musicians who are entirely capable of playing their instruments and writing intelligent songs. Yes, these bands are generally associated with 'grunge', what are you gonna do?

With 'grunge phase', JP probably meant that they were into some grunge bands. Some of that attitude and aesthetic may have leaked through into DT's music. It ain't that hard to understand. But instead, these guys have to make you look ridiculous with things like '*shrugs*' and 'I have no idea what you're talking about'. Just let the high-postcount-wise-asses have their win, PC. I'm sure they're just as cool and sophisticated in real life.

:lol :lol
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 19, 2010, 01:07:52 PM
Ah, the post count argument. Gotta love it.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on May 19, 2010, 01:13:15 PM
The Pancaker would love to have a word with you
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 19, 2010, 01:18:16 PM
I've listened to 'Superunknown' too, and it's no coincidence that on Awake, JLB suddenly sings with a raspier voice than usual,

I just thought of James Hetfield when he sang like that.  Plus, he would do that sort of stuff live even before Awake.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 19, 2010, 05:25:53 PM
I've listened to 'Superunknown' too, and it's no coincidence that on Awake, JLB suddenly sings with a raspier voice than usual, and the music is a bit tougher and nonchalant.
Yes it is.  That's what "coincidence" means.  Besides, as skydivingninja pointed out, he sang with that rasp live on the I&W tour, way before Awake was written and recorded.  One has nothing to do with the other.

The remark about DT being totally different because they're all about 'playing their instruments' is not a good one. Pearl Jam and Soundgarden for example feature musicians who are entirely capable of playing their instruments and writing intelligent songs. Yes, these bands are generally associated with 'grunge', what are you gonna do?
I'm not going to do anything.  First of all, "intelligent songs" has nothing to do with anything, so I have no idea why you would mention that.  Secondly, being capable of playing an instrument and going out of your way to display your instrumental skill are two vastly different things.

With 'grunge phase', JP probably meant that they were into some grunge bands.
I know they were into at least some grunge, as I've already pointed out.  But his comment about a grunge phase was clearly a joke.

Some of that attitude and aesthetic may have leaked through into DT's music.  It ain't that hard to understand.
It's also not hard to understand that that same attitude and aesthetic is more likely to have come from their actual influences like Metallica then some hypothetical grunge influence.

But instead, these guys have to make you look ridiculous with things like '*shrugs*' and 'I have no idea what you're talking about'.
I have no idea what you're talking about.  None of us have been trying to make anyone look ridiculous.  We've been having a discussion.  There's nothing offensive about a shrug.  It's at worst an "I don't know."

Just let the high-postcount-wise-asses have their win, PC. I'm sure they're just as cool and sophisticated in real life.
The only one being a wise-ass here is you, PixelDream.  I suggest you stop right now.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: reneranucci on May 19, 2010, 06:06:07 PM
WTF happened to this thread?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 19, 2010, 06:55:03 PM
So uh, anyway, this project will be cool. With or without Portnoy.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 19, 2010, 06:57:42 PM
Actually, I'd kinda like to see Huxflux Nettermalm, the drummer for Paatos, do something for this. He's a fantastic drummer, and it's really not out of the question seeing as how SW mixed their second album, and I know Mikael's a fan.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 19, 2010, 07:17:43 PM
So uh, anyway, this project will be cool. With or without Portnoy.
This.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 19, 2010, 07:34:06 PM
*awkward silence*
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: sonatafanica on May 19, 2010, 08:02:02 PM
Everyone is wrong. Bernard Perdie is to be the drummer.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FX_84iWPLU
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: hefdaddy42 on May 19, 2010, 08:25:20 PM
*awkward silence*
Nothing awkward here, Sigz.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Quadrochosis on May 19, 2010, 08:34:18 PM
This is one of quite a few topics that have gone to utter shit lately. Is there something in the air?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: MetalManiac666 on May 19, 2010, 08:37:15 PM
:lol

No, just seems like typical DTF to me.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Xanthul on May 20, 2010, 03:27:44 AM
This is one of quite a few topics that have gone to utter shit lately. Is there something in the air?

love
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: moffatt on May 20, 2010, 03:43:09 AM
Lars Ulrich anyone?



 :lol
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 20, 2010, 03:53:39 AM
people remember that demo that Steven Wilson uploaded to his myspace 3 or 4 years ago called "Cut Ribbon"? I recall that was intended for this project.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: SoundscapeMN on May 22, 2010, 03:50:59 PM
https://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=140507

Portnoy in? the article mentions Portnoy, but there is no quote from Wilson there with his name.

Quote from: Blabbermouth
PORCUPINE TREE's Steven Wilson revealed to Chordstruck Magazine that he has begun work on material for his much-anticipated collaboration with Mikael Åkerfeldt  from OPETH and Mike Portnoy from DREAM THEATER. "I started writing with Mikael last month, finally," he said. "It's still in the very early days.

"We wrote about 15 minutes of music last month in my studio near London and we're very excited about it.

"I think people are going to be very surprised by the direction.

"If they're expecting some kind of death-metal-progressive rock, they're going to be surprised [because] it's not like that."

He continued, "If you put the two of us together, the last thing we're going to do is something similar to what people already know from our most high-profile project.

"It's very arty, very ambitious; it's going to be epic.

"We're still writing.

"[It's going to be] very dark, very twisted, very experimental.

"It's still rock music, but we're trying to do something really, really special and really different with this."

In a September 2009 interview with Australia's PyroMusic.net, Mike Portnoy stated about the project, "The three of us each mentioned wanting to work with each other years ago, and since then it's kind of been this rumor that won't go away. I think all three of us regret ever mentioning it at this point, but I think the hype or anticipation around it has surpassed anything we possibly could realistically deliver. So I think now all three of us are kind of hesitant to do it, because there's been so much hype about it. (laughs)

"This is an example of where the Internet can somehow be a bad thing and I think... that's why I try to keep as tight of a lid on things as possible when we're making a record, because anything that is said or leaked or heard, it opens up this can of worms of discussion and once people start discussing and discussing and discussing and dissecting and anticipating, they build up such a level of hype and expectations in their head that it's impossible to ever satisfy it. So that's one of the bad things about the Internet.

"In answer to your question though, I think we'd love to work together, but at this point, we just don't know when."

(Thanks: Marko Kutberg)
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 22, 2010, 03:59:21 PM
Yeah, that looks like the writer was assuming rather than knowing.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Marvellous G on May 22, 2010, 04:00:12 PM
This whole thing sounds too good to be true, and to be honest I'd rather Portnoy (gasp) wasn't involved in a way.  :-\
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: KevShmev on May 22, 2010, 04:06:24 PM
Considering it has never really been confirmed that Portnoy is in on this project, and Wilson doesn't mention him there, that is very bad reporting there.  Even if he ends up being a part of it, making the leap that the writer of that article did is pretty poor.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Nick on May 22, 2010, 04:07:26 PM
I think Portnoy would do a great job on this, but at the end of the day I'd rather this project go with a wild card, somebody relatively unknown and fresh.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 22, 2010, 04:41:32 PM
Yeah, that looks like the writer was assuming rather than knowing.

Yup. I was going to post that article yesterday. But then I realized that there's actually nothing new there, aside from, I assume, the reporter assuming that Portnoy's gonna be a part of this. Bad form, Blabbermouth. Bad form indeed.;
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 22, 2010, 06:44:09 PM
at the end of the day I'd rather this project go with a wild card, somebody relatively unknown and fresh.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: skydivingninja on May 25, 2010, 08:45:41 PM
https://www.metalinjection.net/finally/project-feature-mikael-akerfeldt-mike-portnoy-steven-wilson-finally-launched?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+metalinjection+%28Metal+Injection+%3A%3A+Latest+Posts%40paul

This article seems pretty certain that Mike will be/is involved, anyone hear anything else?
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Sigz on May 25, 2010, 08:48:10 PM
I'll wait until one of them confirms it.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: robwebster on May 25, 2010, 08:56:10 PM
Well, Portnoy seems to reckon his name's been on the cards for a hell of a while. I'm going to trust him until told otherwise.

And I mean, to be fair, schedules are a bastard - specially if you're Mike Portnoy. Very poss that he could be axed from it due to timing issues. Just getting Mikael and Steven together at the same time's a chore. But Portnoy's been attached to it for a fair while, so I'm gonna keep him in my "mental log" of this project.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: orcus116 on May 25, 2010, 09:00:42 PM
Well if that's the case then I'm attached to the new JJ Abrams/Spielberg project.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: robwebster on May 25, 2010, 09:21:19 PM
Are you seriously implying that your working relationship with JJ Abrams and Steven Spielberg is anything like as close as Portnoy's acquaintance with Akerfeldt and Wilson?

(If so, tell Abrams he's ace, from me! Don't worry about Spielberg. Although I do like Jurassic Park. Tell him to stick to dinosaurs.)
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: orcus116 on May 25, 2010, 09:24:21 PM
 :lol

I wish. I'm just saying I have to agree with everyone who has said that whenever Wilson or Akerfeldt talk about the project they only refer to each other, or at least from what I've seen. The only one who has said Portnoy is in the project is Portnoy.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: robwebster on May 25, 2010, 09:29:20 PM
Haha, you're right of course - I do figure they're the core. But I don't think Portnoy would have stuck his name on it if it wasn't at all in the pipeline - at least at some point. I'd be very surprised if he was just making stuff up to get attention.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: TL on May 25, 2010, 10:00:58 PM
I wouldn't be shocked if MP is supposed to be in on this, but they're keeping quiet about that because scheduling has his involvement up in the air.

I think it will definitely be a very different end result depending on whether MP is or isn't involved, and I can say definitively that I'm incredibly excited about this either way.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: Perpetual Change on May 26, 2010, 06:29:27 PM
Plenty of people have been talking about this and Mike would have commented on it by now if he knew anything.  This seems to me to be another example of Blabbermouth jumping the gun.  We already know they do some pretty shotty reporting. It looks like they don't even try to contact the sources they quote for further comment, even if, as in Mike's quote, the statement is from last year.
Title: Re: Steven Wilson + Mikael Akerfeldt project (Mike Portnoy?)
Post by: glaurung on May 26, 2010, 07:07:19 PM
I'm actually surprised they come out about this at all before they had everything figured out. People have been over speculating about this for so long they must have know what would happen. :lol