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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Perpetual Change on April 25, 2010, 07:35:40 PM
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After seeing Transatlantic last night, my appreciation for Neal Morse has increased exponentially. I always liked him, but was never really interested enough to check out his solo stuff. Long story short; I am now. So where's a good place to begin?
For a little helpful background, I think The Whirlwind is by far the best Transatlantic album.
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?
It's style and general way it's composed are similar to The Whirlwind.
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I'll second the ?. Also One and Sola Scriptura. Heck, get Testimony while you're at it. Lifeline may not be your best bet.
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I'd say Sola Scriptura, but I'm not super knowledgable when it comes to NM's solo stuff.
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I only have Sola Scriptura but i like it a lot and would recommend it.
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His first 4 solo albums are all brilliant. You can´t go wrong with any of those. Personally, I would start with One or Testimony , but the later is a double album so maybe it would be too much of a good thing, I couldn´t get into it at first so I moved on towards his second and third albums before coming back to Testimony. ? and Sola Scriptura are excellent (SS is in my all time top 5 and features my favorite guitar solo ever, one of my favorite riffs and the only song that makes me cry everytime I listen to it) but I feel they are not "110% Neal Morse" as the others, in my opinion his early albums showcase his style in a more pure way (in the same way people would say I&W or SFAM are more representative of what DT is all about than their other albums).
Lifeline is slightly weaker but since it is Neal Morse we´re talking about, it is still full of :hefdaddy moments. Just listen to the melodies on the "Star for a day" section, they give me chills every time "You´ll get so hiiiiiiiiigh that you can flyyyy awaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy". And then "The eyes of the Savior" section, it is probably his most emotional moment since Testimony.
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Definitely ? first. Maybe followed by One and/or Testimony, and then Sola Scriptura. Get Lifeline last, if ever.
Also, as long as you understand what you'll be hearing, lyrically, go for it.
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? is my favorite. Sola Scriptura may be the best synthesis of all his compositional styles, but the theological ideas he presents tick me off to the point where I don't enjoy spinning it anymore.
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This thread must be so confusing to people who don't know ? is the name of an album. :lol
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His first 4 solo albums are all brilliant.
I have a feeling you are forgetting about his first two solo albums. Testimony was his third solo album, not his first.
Anyway, I would start with ? (by far his best solo album), Testimony (a bit too long, but has some tremendous individual songs) or his self-titled debut (more straight-forward and not that proggy, but still damn good).
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This thread must be so confusing to people who don't know ? is the name of an album. :lol
Well, I'm not THAT oblivious. I know that he has an album that's called ?.
So, it looks like I'll be starting with that.
Unless, of course, someone thinks a live album would be better. I generally find that live albums are a good starting point.
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This thread must be so confusing to people who don't know ? is the name of an album. :lol
Well, I'm not THAT oblivious. I know that he has an album that's called ?.
Didn't mean you, was just saying in general. ;)
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I'll echo the sentiments towards ? being a good place to start. I'll also add in One, but do yourself a favor and PLEASE get the Special Edition with the bonus disc! The extra tracks (non-covers) actually work into the album's story-line/concept and "King Jesus" is just a killer tune!
I'll also go out on a limb here and say go out and buy Testimony Live. You get the entire Testimony album in a live setting with Neal, Mike (yes! He plays drums live on it!), and 7 other great musicians playing (including Randy George, who wasn't on the studio release of Testimony). After the daunting 120+ minute Testimony, Neal and company come back on stage to play an amazing encore of "We All Need Some Light", "The Light" and "Stranger In Your Soul". It's one of my favorite live DVDs (next to Transatlantic's Live In Europe), and I would recommend it if you want to experience Neal in a recorded, live setting performing his solo stuff.
If you want a live album, I wouldn't mind suggesting ? Live, which covers the entire ? album, some tunes from the Special Edition of One.
Pretty much any of his live releases cover the majority of his albums (with One and some of Sola Scriptura, as well as a couple songs from Lifeline, having not been released on any live CD or DVD). Once you get a couple, you may get hooked and get them all, like I have... but, to be honest, that's quite alright! :tup
-Marc.
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His first 4 solo albums are all brilliant.
I have a feeling you are forgetting about his first two solo albums. Testimony was his third solo album, not his first.
Anyway, I would start with ? (by far his best solo album), Testimony (a bit too long, but has some tremendous individual songs) or his self-titled debut (more straight-forward and not that proggy, but still damn good).
Ok. Maybe it should read "his first full prog rock solo albums that everybody knows about and praises" :biggrin:
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Also, if you dig the studio albums, the live DVDs are worth every dollar. They give you insane amounts of material and killer performances. Testimony Live features 8 musicians on stage, including a super-talented guy (forgot his name) that plays guitar, violin, flute, lap steel guitar and a bunch of other things. MP and Randy George are there as Marc said. You also get stellar performances of We All Need Some Light and Stranger in Your Soul, and a 1-hour documentary of the tour. Many of the crazy things you saw Transatlantic doing during Stranger in Your Soul are recorded here (except MP crowd surfing). You can get this DVD first and leave the others for later.
The Sola Scriptura DVD contains most of that album, plus medleys from the other albums. The musians do an excellent job and there is a little bit more improvisation than in the other DVD. Overall, the material on ? in underepresented on the DVDs, but you can get live versions of those songs in ? Live as Marc said. Then the "So Many Roads" triple CD features most of the Lifeline album, plus a couple of songs from One, medleys from Testimony and ?, Stranger in Your Soul and a couple of Spock´s Beard songs I think.
I hope Neal releases another album soon. He´s such a great muscian. I :heart him.
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? and Sola Scriptura are my top two favorite
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I haven't heard any of his solo stuff, but I'm currently completely addicted to Snow. It it worth me checking this out?
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I haven't heard any of his solo stuff, but I'm currently completely addicted to Snow. It it worth me checking this out?
Yes.
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I really need to get the Testimony Live DVD. The Sola Scriptura and Beyond DVD is awesome.
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I really need to get the Testimony Live DVD. The Sola Scriptura and Beyond DVD is awesome.
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Hey, that's what I said.
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Hey, that's what I said.
Pass the bottle, will ya?
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Sola Scriptura is one of the most amazing albums I have ever heard in my entire life, and it also played a pretty decent role in my religious conversion experience.
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The Sola Scriptura and Beyond DVD is awesome.
I never gave consideration to buying that, simply because I have never been overly wild about Sola Scriptura, but looking over the set list of it just now, wow, it looks pretty awesome. I might have to get it just for all of that ?, Testimony and One material. Plus, it has a few SB tunes, as well.
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Among his live stuff that I have heard, I prefer the studio versions - except Testimony. I don't remember the last time I listened to the studio version of that.
Lifeline takes a lot of heat, but I still like it, although it is really nothing like his other solo prog stuff. It isn't a concept album, and it isn't really as proggy, either. But the title track if fantastic, and "Leviathan" is a beast (pun not intended).
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Kev, if it makes it even more worthwhile, I like listening to the Sola stuff a lot more on that DVD than on the studio album.
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Among his live stuff that I have heard, I prefer the studio versions
I mostly do as well. But that doesn't mean the live stuff is bad. SS and Beyond is interesting to me because it is a lot more "loose" than I am used to hearing Neal and his band. That was a bit offputting at first, but I really like it now. I still prefer the studio versions of most of the songs, but that doesn't mean the live versions are any less fun to watch. And there are some neat additions and variations as well.
Lifeline takes a lot of heat, but I still like it, although it is really nothing like his other solo prog stuff.
I like it, but just not nearly as much as his other solo material. But this album is a definite exception to what I typed above. I definitely prefer the live versions on So Many Roads to the studio versions of the Lifeline songs. They just feel to me like they translate better live.
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I'm sure that's true (the Lifeline songs translating well live), but I don't have that one yet.
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I still haven't heard Lifeline. I heard mostly okay to bad things about it, and it came out at a time where I was a bit tired of Neal's style (just a phase at the time), so I never bothered checking any of it, outside of a few online samples, none of which wowed me at all.
And I still wish Testimony was a tad shorter - like 20-25 minutes could have been chopped off (a fair amount from Part I), and it would have been much better. I still think it is really good, as is, but some of the reprises are a bit overkill. Still, some of the best songs of his solo career are from that record:
"Sleeping Jesus"
"Wasted Time"
"Break of Day"
"Somber Days"
"Long Story"
"It's All I Can Do"
"Sing It High"
"Moving in My Heart" (this absolutely slays both "Power in the Air" and "Colder in the Sun," all of which share virtually the same chorus melody)
"I Am Willing"
"The Storm Before the Calm"
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Testimony reminds me a lot of Lord of the Rings, in a sense. Both plod and seem overly long. But that is entirely intentional and actually adds to the fact that both are supposed to feel like a long, involved, arduous process of a story. You are meant to feel the weight and the length of the process involved in transforming the characters because you are, on a smaller scale, forced to patiently endure to get to the end as well.
Yes, I've been emotionally hit just as hard by things that are more concise. But I haven't been emotionally hit just as hard in the same way, and I can appreciate what the length, amount of detail, and even intentional repetition is accomplishing in the telling of the two stories that are Testimony and Lord of the Rings.
Hopefully, that makes a bit of sense.
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It definitely makes sense.
I'm reading an abridged version of Journey to the West right now, and author has decided to cut out about 1700 pages of the journey-- which is overly long, copy & pasty, drawn out, etc-- in favor of maintaining the absolute essential parts of the story. Basically, imagine if Lord of the Rings was written like a novelization of the movies. You totally lose all sense of the epicness and the relationships these characters build slowly through the journey, and when it ends it's not nearly as touching.
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I'm not a fan of LOTR, but what you said makes sense. It is all about the journey. I get it. However, it is not the length that bothers me - Snow is just as long, but isn't replete with non-stop reprises pretty much the whole way through - it is the fact that there are too many "main" themes that pop up way too often. I think the "Power in the Air" reprise in the middle of the otherwise spectacular Part II was really unnecessary, for example. But I don't want to keep critiquing too much, because, after all, I do like this album A LOT, so I will shut up now. :biggrin:
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there are too many "main" themes that pop up way too often.
I actually had this issue with the Whirlwind at first. You hear those main themes constantly in the first 25 minutes or so, and then you don't here them AT ALL until Dancing With Eternal Glory. I still think it's kind of weird.
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The Sola Scriptura and Beyond DVD is awesome.
I never gave consideration to buying that, simply because I have never been overly wild about Sola Scriptura, but looking over the set list of it just now, wow, it looks pretty awesome. I might have to get it just for all of that ?, Testimony and One material. Plus, it has a few SB tunes, as well.
You won't be disappointed. If you are, I should be permabanned.
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there are too many "main" themes that pop up way too often.
I actually had this issue with the Whirlwind at first. You hear those main themes constantly in the first 25 minutes or so, and then you don't here them AT ALL until Dancing With Eternal Glory. I still think it's kind of weird.
I don't think that is really true. "The Whirlwind" does a great job of not beating you over the head with reprises, at any point, and many of the main themes heard throughout the whole thing are heard in the "Overture" at the beginning. But the lack of reprises is why I think most of the songs work really well as great stand-alone songs.
The Sola Scriptura and Beyond DVD is awesome.
I never gave consideration to buying that, simply because I have never been overly wild about Sola Scriptura, but looking over the set list of it just now, wow, it looks pretty awesome. I might have to get it just for all of that ?, Testimony and One material. Plus, it has a few SB tunes, as well.
You won't be disappointed. If you are, I should be permabanned.
Hmmmmm....I may have to make a purchase here very soon. :)
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I'm deeply conflicted about whether or not to hope you are disappointed.
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Oh, and I have had One going in my car the last two days, and man oh man, I had forgotten how good that CD is. I mean, sure, I listen to it at home sometimes, but that is usually in the background, so I don't necessarily "listen" to it, as opposed to just "hearing" it. But I had forgotten how great "Reunion" is, in particular, and I hadn't listened to "Help Me" in so long, I couldn't remember how the melodies went. But that CD is damn good, so throw that one into the recommendations I made earlier in this thread. "Cradle to the Grave" is still utterly gorgeous. :coolio
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Oh, and I have had One going in my car the last two days, and man oh man, I had forgotten how good that CD is. I mean, sure, I listen to it at home sometimes, but that is usually in the background, so I don't necessarily "listen" to it, as opposed to just "hearing" it. But I had forgotten how great "Reunion" is, in particular, and I hadn't listened to "Help Me" in so long, I couldn't remember how the melodies went. But that CD is damn good, so throw that one into the recommendations I made earlier in this thread. "Cradle to the Grave" is still utterly gorgeous. :coolio
To me, One has always sounded like a Transatlantic album, while Testimony sounded like a Spock's Beard album.
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And to me, Star Trek TNG always sounded like Commander Riker is Spock wishing he had a beard.
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The Sola Scriptura and Beyond DVD is awesome.
I never gave consideration to buying that, simply because I have never been overly wild about Sola Scriptura, but looking over the set list of it just now, wow, it looks pretty awesome. I might have to get it just for all of that ?, Testimony and One material. Plus, it has a few SB tunes, as well.
You won't be disappointed. If you are, I should be permabanned.
Hmmmmm....I may have to make a purchase here very soon. :)
Do it. I did and I don't regret it. I thoroughly enjoy the DVD! I don't watch it as much as Testimony Live, but it's still pretty damn good. I'm sad that I waited SOOO long after it's release to get it!
-Marc.
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To me, One has always sounded like a Transatlantic album, while Testimony sounded like a Spock's Beard album.
Regarding One, that is how the CD was hyped up when it was first released, but I don't really see it (at least relative to Neal's other work, most of which all sounds a little like TA, for obvious reasons). I think it was just hyped that way a) because it has two pretty long epics, and b) to sell more records to Neal fans who might have been scared off a bit by the overly religious nature of Neal's first post-SB release.
Regarding Testimony, it has a somewhat similar format to Snow, which was Neal's most recent release (with SB of course) prior to Testimony, so I can understand that line of thinking.
Do it. I did and I don't regret it. I thoroughly enjoy the DVD! I don't watch it as much as Testimony Live, but it's still pretty damn good. I'm sad that I waited SOOO long after it's release to get it!
Better late than never! :biggrin:
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Testimony was the first NM album I bought and while I love it now, it was not a good choice for a first album. I was just browsing around in the prog section and that was the only album of his that was in there. At the time, I didn't have Transatlantic and had only heard of Neal on these boards (dt.net). Picked it up based solely on that and listened a few times, but it was just too long and dense to take in, so it sat on the shelf for literally about a year before I picked it up again and began to really listen in earnest. It eventually clicked big time and led me to pick up his other stuff, but it's just too long to get into if you're not already familiar with his work, IMO.
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With regards to One, it has rotated around from being my TOP favorite NM solo album to third... however, keep in mind that I ONLY ever listen to it with it's restored track listing:
1. "The Creation"
2. "Back to the Garden"
3. "The Man's Gone"
4. "Nothing to Believe"
5. "Author of Confusion"
6. "The Separated Man"
7. "Cradle to the Grave"
8. "Help Me / The Spirit and the Flesh"
9. "King Jesus"
10. "Father of Forgiveness"
11. "Reunion"
This is according to Randy George himself, as posted on Neal's message boards, and includes songs from the Bonus Disc. I even went so far as to make a 2-Disc version of the album, with the first 5 tracks on disc 1, and the last 6 on disc 2 (making each disc open with an 18 minute epic, and closing with a 9 minute epic... ironic!)
The music in One is so varied, as far as Neal can go, but still very his style of prog... sure, there's no southern violin stylings as with "Sing It High", but you get some lovely ballads, some heavy rockers, and some awesome thematic epics. It's a mix of TA and SB, with some of what Neal was slowly venturing into as far as themes go in his future albums (? and Sola Scriptura).
-Marc.
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I'm deeply conflicted about whether or not to hope you are disappointed.
:lol :lol :lol Touche, good sir.
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Yea Kev that DVD is epic I highly recommend it, other than the actual show it also has tons of bonus features including a solo performance of "Bridge Across Forever" and a hour plus length tour documentary.
Edit: Plus videos of all the ? songs that weren't in the actual medley, so you essentially get all of ?.
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I love all his albums but I would agree that "?" is a good starting point.
"One" is also great!
"Testimony" is killer!
"Sola Scriptura" is awesome
"Lifeline" is tremendous!
There all great imo!!!
:laugh:
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I think his most recent live album So Many Roads is as good a compilation as one can hope for to date and pretty much covers most of the best of everything.
I would suggest that one as definitive Neal Morse primer.
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I'm deeply conflicted about whether or not to hope you are disappointed.
:lol :lol :lol Touche, good sir.
Bosk, your lack of response to this perturbs me. Do you still love me? :sadpanda:
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I'm deeply conflicted about whether or not to hope you are disappointed.
:lol :lol :lol Touche, good sir.
Bosk, your lack of response to this perturbs me. Do you still love me? :sadpanda:
Of course I do. Even though you seem determined to annoy me. Yes, I still do. :happypanda:
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Well... better late than never. Earlier this week, I downloaded "?" off of iTunes. It's everything I expected and more. Really, I for some reason thought that Neal Morse's solo stuff would be a more upfront, less proggy version of Transatlantic. But, actually, I think I like "?" a fair bit better than I like any of the Transatlantic records. That's not me taking shots at TA, as I do love them... but ? is just so much more compact, and the melodies are so much stronger than those on the Whirlwind.
I now feel compelled to spend way more on music this month than I should, and purchase the rest of Morse's solo stuff. Though I won't, because I'm really having a good time digesting what "?" is all about, since the lyrics seem rather mysterious and less "forward" than what I expected.
Funny aside: One of the nurses at the daycare I work at during summer (she's about 60) is very religious and always talking about biblical things to people who will listen. We got on the topic of worship music and she made a comment that she was disappointed with most of it since, in her words, "the spirit is capable of inspiring much more creativity than that stuff."
So, I burnt her a copy of "?" and told her that, while she might not like the music, I'm sure it'd be something out of the box. After listening to it, she returned to work the next day and told me that she hadn't left the house all night because she was listening to it over and over again. She practically had tears in her eyes, and was asking me a bunch of questions about who Neal Morse was, and a bunch of other questions I didn't know the answer to. Then, she went ahead and told me what the album was about ;D
Anyway, thanks for the rec's, guys!
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If she wants to know more about who Neal is as a person, Testimony is a great place for her to go next. It's long and dense, but basically tells his story from him being a young rocker and his life gradually becoming a mess and how he was found by God, moved to Tennessee, and started life over.
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I'm only recently getting into Transatlantic, but already being reasonably familiar with the other bands represented by the group, I'm guessing that upbeat, pop-prog sound comes mainly from Morse's influence? I'm really liking that.
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Yeah, definitely him.
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Good to hear you are getting into ?, PC; it really is a terrific record, and while Neal has plenty of other good ones, I think that is by far his best, so prepare yourself. ;)
Also, Roine's style is pretty upbeat, and he writes fantasticly catchy melodies, too, so I wouldn't give Neal all of the credit for that element being heard in TA. :)
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Also, Roine's style is pretty upbeat, and he writes fantasticly catchy melodies, too, so I wouldn't give Neal all of the credit for that element being heard in TA. :)
This.
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Actually, I've never really listened to Flower Kings, aside from the stuff I've heard on Nick's show. But, if Neal Morse's "?" is any indication of what contributions he's made to the Transatlantic albums, it's his influence that I really enjoy about Transatlantic and Roine's that I'm just a little bit less excited about. That's not saying I wouldn't enjoy Flower Kings; I just think the stuff I like most about TA comes from Neal's direction.
BTW, the person I was talking about was asking me what church Neal Morse belongs to. She seemed to think that he was a messianic jew because of ?'s heavy emphasis on a lot of Old Testament scripture. I wasn't sure, so I didn't say anything, but I don't think that's the case. Does anyone know?
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Yeah, definitely him.
I really need to check his stuff out (and probably also early Spock's Beard for that matter. I love his singing style too.
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PC, I'd get One next. It's an album that you may not see mentioned much, but it is glorious and awesome.
By the way, Lifeline is top-notch in my book. No, not because I'm a fanboy. :biggrin:
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PC, I'd get One next. It's an album that you may not see mentioned much, but it is glorious and awesome.
By the way, Lifeline is top-notch in my book. No, not because I'm a fanboy. :biggrin:
If you get One and/or Lifeline, please seek out the special/limited editions of both albums! I only ever listen to the 90-some minute complete version of One and really, that's the best way to listen to it, especially for the rocking "King Jesus", and the other tunes are pretty good as well, not to mention the great covers on each album's bonus disc!
-Marc.
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Dangit, I *think* I only have the SE of One. I am really bad about keeping up with what I have and don't have.
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Actually, I've never really listened to Flower Kings, aside from the stuff I've heard on Nick's show. But, if Neal Morse's "?" is any indication of what contributions he's made to the Transatlantic albums, it's his influence that I really enjoy about Transatlantic and Roine's that I'm just a little bit less excited about. That's not saying I wouldn't enjoy Flower Kings; I just think the stuff I like most about TA comes from Neal's direction.
BTW, the person I was talking about was asking me what church Neal Morse belongs to. She seemed to think that he was a messianic jew because of ?'s heavy emphasis on a lot of Old Testament scripture. I wasn't sure, so I didn't say anything, but I don't think that's the case. Does anyone know?
never heard that before, but also don't know what church he is a part of. I love the messianic jews because of their understanding of the OT and love their worship (dancing, etc).
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He's not a Messianic Jew (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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:lol
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I've had ?, One, Testimony, Sola Scriptura, and Lifeline for awhile now, but have never gotten around to listening to any of them until this week. ? is my favorite so far, probably followed by One; great stuff there. Lifeline had two or three standout tracks and I was pleasantly surprised by it overall considering it seems to be considered his worst solo effort. Sola Scriptura has some incredible music, but damn the lyrics are awful. I think the idea behind the album is kinda cool, but they just reek of blatant fundamentalism and a poor understanding of the subject matter. I have yet to listen to Testimony disc 2, but disc 1 was pretty good.
I love Morse's work with Transatlantic as well as a fair amount of Spock's Beard stuff, and a lot of this is just as good. :tup Anybody heard his self-titled debut?
-J
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Disc 2 of Testimony is so much better than Disc 1, IMHO. Part 4 of the album is teh best them.
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j, I could not agree more about Sola Scriptura. The music is good overall (the last song being really good), but the lyrics are not good.
I have been pimping Neal's debut on here for forever; it is really good, and should be owned by any fan of his.
It is hard to say which disc of Testimony is better, as I think Part II (which is at the end of Disc 1) is the best of the five parts, but Part I, which meanders a bit too much, is definitely the worst.
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I think the idea behind the album is kinda cool, but they just reek of blatant fundamentalism and a poor understanding of the subject matter.
How so?
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Lifeline is awesome, screw the haters.
And get it Kev, damnit.
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Lifeline is awesome, screw the haters.
And get it Kev, damnit.
I think Lifeline is good, but not great as a whole. There are some great tracks on it ("Lifeline", "Leviathan", and "So Many Roads"), but the rest range from good to meh, so the overall feel is diminished somewhat. As I said in a previous post, it's worth getting the Special Edition with the Bonus Disc - the covers are interesting choices (perhaps the oddest chosen by MP and NM yet!) but they do them well and are a great addition to their prior compiled release of covers titled Cover To Cover. The hidden track is also quite hilarious!
-Marc.