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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: OperantChamber on March 04, 2010, 07:53:56 PM
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It seems like everyone here at DTF wants more JMX.
In the mix, in lyrics, and in songwriting. Is there anyone here who doesn't?
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right here
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Yeah, I'd like to see him back in the mix. It's almost as if he is a hired studio bassist
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More volume in the mix. The rest is just unrealistic, JMX is simply not part of the writing process anymore. JR tells him what to play.
rumborak
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Everything. Definitely everything.
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Everything please. I've always had severe trouble hearing him even on FII where I hear him better than any other album. That said, DT(read:"the people who REALLY made this silly rule") really need to drop that bullshit rule about the structuring of lyrics around the melody/song or however the fuck it goes. Boo fuckin hoo if you have to work a tiny bit harder to get a song completed. This rule coupled with the self-production seem to have really compromised the potential of their releases in recent years through the saminess. Even though they still span a decent spectrum of styles it starts to get that feeling of going to Denny's or Taco Bell where no matter what they make or how they try to vary things it's still being made from the same palette of 15-20 ingredients.
Those of you looking for an excellent prog metal album where the bass is richly present in the mix should check out Spiral Architect's 2000 release A Sceptic's Universe.
Edit: Awesome! Post #2112 :metal
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I wish I could check "Everything" and "Fine the way it is."
Because it would be awesome if he were allowed to do more. But it's not like DT are a shitty band without his godlike input.
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i love JMX, so i checked everything.
what a man.
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I checked everything. I really miss being able to easily hear him in the mix... and I really miss his actual songwriting. Learning to Live and Trial of Tears are some of my favorite DT, both musically and lyrically.
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Songwriting and Lyrics, although the former is highly unrealistic.
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I love his input and would like to hear him more in the mix, but the question is, is he bothered by not being part of the writing process?
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I love his input and would like to hear him more in the mix, but the question is, is he bothered by not being part of the writing process?
If he isn't bothered then I'd guess he's indifferent at best since I can't imagine someone with his talent level who was regularly part of the writing process being all-too-happy about being relegated to a position closer to hired gun.
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More volume in the mix. The rest is just unrealistic, JMX is simply not part of the writing process anymore. JR tells him what to play.
rumborak
This
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I wish I could check "Everything" and "Fine the way it is."
Because it would be awesome if he were allowed to do more. But it's not like DT are a shitty band without his godlike input.
I see your point.
The last option was really meant to mean something more like: "JMX should be put in a box and kept there."
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Correct me if Iīm wrong but some people here seem to be implying that heīs not allowed to have more input. I completely disagree, I think he just doesnīt want/put the necessary effort/doesnīt care about having more input in the band. Itīs his decision, no one is preventing him from doing so. And itīs not because DTīs style of working, the other 4 members have their input under the same set of rules.
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Correct me if Iīm wrong but some people here seem to be implying that heīs not allowec to have more input. I completely disagree, I think he just doesnīt want/put the necessary effort/doesnīt care about having more input in the band. Itīs his decision, no one is preventing him from doing so. And itīs not because DTīs style of working, the other 4 members have their input under the same set of rules.
It seems to me from the outside looking in that the JP-JR-MP trio are boxing him out.
I'm thinking specifically of an interview MP did about Raw Dog where he mentions that putting the music together flows naturally for the three of them.
It could very well be that JMX is doing exactly what he wants to. We'd have to ask the man himself, I guess.
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It is very unfortunate that JM has stopped being one of the main creative forces in the band...
I wish he would contribute more, in the composing process, but also with some lyrics. After Octavarium, i think DT lyrics have gone really downhill, and JM would give some creative ideas.
Also, DT sound really needs more creative bass lines, because in the last albums it sounds like there is a hired bass player doubling JP riffs with no musical input at all.
To be honest, i really hate JR playing over the riffs, i dont like the sound and i think it is one reason why the bass hasn't a disticntive part in the mix.
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
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Who wants more JMX?
JMX does, I'm sure.
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Everything.
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
Possibly, but I think playing with a pick on the low strings on the heavier songs could provide more low end.
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Correct me if Iīm wrong but some people here seem to be implying that heīs not allowed to have more input. I completely disagree, I think he just doesnīt want/put the necessary effort/doesnīt care about having more input in the band. Itīs his decision, no one is preventing him from doing so. And itīs not because DTīs style of working, the other 4 members have their input under the same set of rules.
The problem is that nobody knows for sure what he's doing in studio anymore. During the few Vokle chats with Jordan I tried to ask the same question: What is John Myung's role in the studio these days?
I really want to know, because that'll clear up all sorts of confusion
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
Possibly, but I think playing with a pick on the low strings on the heavier songs could provide more low end.
Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
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Correct me if Iīm wrong but some people here seem to be implying that heīs not allowed to have more input. I completely disagree, I think he just doesnīt want/put the necessary effort/doesnīt care about having more input in the band. Itīs his decision, no one is preventing him from doing so. And itīs not because DTīs style of working, the other 4 members have their input under the same set of rules.
The problem is that nobody knows for sure what he's doing in studio anymore. During the few Vokle chats with Jordan I tried to ask the same question: What is John Myung's role in the studio these days?
I don't think it's much of a secret really anymore. There was some video where (I think) MP said JMX usually shows up at the gig, plays his stuff, and leaves. Same thing with the recordings. He shows up, learns the lines, and records them.
Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
It's a combination of things. Yes, high-end would help too, but not doubling JP helps a lot too.
rumborak
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I'm rather neutral with Bass overall. Sure I love a good Bass bit like in Metropolis or the start of Panic Attack but if it's not there I don't miss it much.
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Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
It's a combination of things. Yes, high-end would help too, but not doubling JP helps a lot too.
rumborak
Oh, you're definitely right about that. It's kinda sad that the wah wah bass riff in Raw Dog is actually mostly JR, with JM doubling it in the background. The direction the band is taking makes it hard for the bass to have a lot of freedom though. Rock music usually has more freedom for the basslines, but metal in general is more restricting. That's what I think anyways, but then again there are plenty of metal bands out there (Devin Townsend, Pain of Salvation, Cynic) that have pretty cool basslines so ignore what I said.
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I dunno dude. Listen to the bass lines on Suspended Animation, and I think that shows that, no matter how "hard" the music is, a good bass line always adds to the music.
Problem is, someone needs to write it, and not just let be an afterthought of the writing process.
rumborak
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At this point I'd actually prefer someone more enthusiastic playing.
*puts up flameshield*
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Everything.
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
Possibly, but I think playing with a pick on the low strings on the heavier songs could provide more low end.
Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
I think at the end, the option in the poll should be "distinct basslines that allow JM to be heard" instead of "more volume in the mix"
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Everything.
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The works.
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
Possibly, but I think playing with a pick on the low strings on the heavier songs could provide more low end.
Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
I think at the end, the option in the poll should be "distinct basslines that allow JM to be heard" instead of "more volume in the mix"
I agree with this. As I said many times before, the problem is not the bass volume itself. It's rather a combination of doubling the guitar lines (sometimes keyboard lines) and using an unhealthy amount of distortion/overdrive. Also, now that JM uses a MM Bongo bass (which has a much bigger bottom end than his Yamaha basses), he almost wastes its potential by creating a sound full of distortion since it amplifies the mids and low highs and cuts down the bottom end quite a bit.
I don't know where it comes from, but I prefer the cleaner, more pure bass sound he used on I&W and FII, which, by the way, made a very interesting counterpoint to the heavy guitar riffs imo.
Also, what sometimes irks me is that JR is sometimes playing in the same octave as JM (mostly during the heavy songs), which takes up even more space that actually belongs to the bass player. But that's kind of a different chapter.
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I am not sure about the songwriting and lyrics, I think DT can take this decision better than me, but the volume certainly. i just donīt understand why its mixed so low, JM is part of the band too :-[
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I love the bass mix in Score
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I'm pretty disappointed with JM's recent output. He used to write such great basslines and was actually quite interesting to listen to. This recent trend of him doubling JP and JR writing for him has really started to annoy me lately. Often times when I'm listening to the newer albums I completely forget he's there and it's so disappointing because he used to be such a standout member of the band for me. I also honestly think he's the best lyricist in the band and the whole "properly structured lyrics" rule is just bullshit. I really hope that he'll become a part of the DT writing process again someday but I don't really think it's ever going to happen.
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I don't know where it comes from, but I prefer the cleaner, more pure bass sound he used on I&W and FII, which, by the way, made a very interesting counterpoint to the heavy guitar riffs imo.
Definitely. Thatīs the standard weīll always measure JM against.
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I love the bass mix in Score
The mix is very good and Score includes many songs that showcase JMīs strenghts.
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I can hear the bass just fine on every DT record excluding WDADU which I don't have.
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I take it your EQ settings have a certain, err, "descent " from the left to the right?
rumborak
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moar JMX plz
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
Possibly, but I think playing with a pick on the low strings on the heavier songs could provide more low end.
Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
I think at the end, the option in the poll should be "distinct basslines that allow JM to be heard" instead of "more volume in the mix"
I agree with this. As I said many times before, the problem is not the bass volume itself. It's rather a combination of doubling the guitar lines (sometimes keyboard lines) and using an unhealthy amount of distortion/overdrive. Also, now that JM uses a MM Bongo bass (which has a much bigger bottom end than his Yamaha basses), he almost wastes its potential by creating a sound full of distortion since it amplifies the mids and low highs and cuts down the bottom end quite a bit.
I don't know where it comes from, but I prefer the cleaner, more pure bass sound he used on I&W and FII, which, by the way, made a very interesting counterpoint to the heavy guitar riffs imo.
Also, what sometimes irks me is that JR is sometimes playing in the same octave as JM (mostly during the heavy songs), which takes up even more space that actually belongs to the bass player. But that's kind of a different chapter.
I think all of you are right. Every last one of you.
:hefdaddy
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I think there's enough low end in the bass in the recordings. The problem is the lack of high end. If they add more high end into the mix, you'll be able to hear the punch and clarity in JM's playing.
Possibly, but I think playing with a pick on the low strings on the heavier songs could provide more low end.
Hmm... playing with a pick would only give it more attack. The low end is usually always there isn't it? DT's current mixes have enough low end, I think people actually want more high end when they say they want more JMX.
I think at the end, the option in the poll should be "distinct basslines that allow JM to be heard" instead of "more volume in the mix"
I agree with this. As I said many times before, the problem is not the bass volume itself. It's rather a combination of doubling the guitar lines (sometimes keyboard lines) and using an unhealthy amount of distortion/overdrive. Also, now that JM uses a MM Bongo bass (which has a much bigger bottom end than his Yamaha basses), he almost wastes its potential by creating a sound full of distortion since it amplifies the mids and low highs and cuts down the bottom end quite a bit.
I don't know where it comes from, but I prefer the cleaner, more pure bass sound he used on I&W and FII, which, by the way, made a very interesting counterpoint to the heavy guitar riffs imo.
Also, what sometimes irks me is that JR is sometimes playing in the same octave as JM (mostly during the heavy songs), which takes up even more space that actually belongs to the bass player. But that's kind of a different chapter.
I think all of you are right. Every last one of you.
:hefdaddy
QFT
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It would definitely be great to hear more JMX. Maybe if the new Jelly Jam album happens, it will inspire him to be more active in DT again.
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I'd love for him to be more involved everywhere, but right now it would be better to hear that "pure bass" sound you hear on albums like I&W, FII, SFAM, and 6DoiT.
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Everything. 9:50 Lines in the Sand. I miss that sort of stuff. I want it again.
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Everything. 9:50 Lines in the Sand. I miss that sort of stuff. I want it again.
I love that part. I almost had a heart attack when I heard it. It came out of fucking NOWHERE