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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Perpetual Change on February 03, 2010, 09:00:39 PM
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I'm curious as to what people think.
Note: This does not mean your FAVORITE album, just the album that represents what the band does better than all the other albums. So you can say that, for instance, Falling Into Infinity is your favorite. But if you're going to call it "definitive" at least post some justification here.
For me, it's easily Images and Words. Pretty much everything the band has ever done is hinted at there, and I don't think it's unfair to say DT have never really gone too far beyond the sound they established with it.
2nd choice, oddly, would be Black Clouds. Far from my favorite, but it's really representative of what DT are all about and I wouldn't hesitate to suggest it as a 1st of 2nd album to purchase for people who want to get into DT.
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Went with Octavarium. Not my top favorite, but it's up there, but my reasoning is that because it is so diverse, you get a taste of what DT *CAN* do musically. You have the heavy hitters ("The Root Of All Evil", "Panic Attack", "Sacrificed Sons"), the ballads and straight rockers ("The Answer Lies Within" and "I Walk Beside You"), the hard-rock-influenced songs ("These Walls" and "Never Enough"), and the massive prog-epic ("Octavarium"). The variety, while it turns some fans off (especially after the one-sided, heavy and metal Train Of Thought).
You get songs that sounds like things they've done on every album prior to it, like the U2-esque IWBY, which has been evident in songs like "To Live Forever", "Innocence Faded" and some of the stuff from the 96-97 period before FII. You get a piano-ballad in the vein of "The Spirit Carries On" and "Disappear" (even though TALW isn't half as good as either of them). You get pretty much every sort of DT sound on Octavarium as you would get on pretty much any of the seven albums before it.
Because of that, I nominate it as the definitive DT album.
Oddly enough, my second choice would've been Images And Words, and neither album has an instrumental song on it!
-Marc.
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probably Octavarium with Images and Words second
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This is a pretty hard choice actually. I know I wouldn't pick WDADU, Awake, FII, ToT, or SC.
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Definitely either SDOIT or SFAM. Both of those albums are the perfect blend of heaviness, proginess, strong melodic songwriting, quirkiness, and flashiness balanced with tastefulness. And I feel they're the perfect middle ground between "old" DT and "new" DT.
If I had to pick one album to show someone what DT is about, nothing can top these two.
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Gotta be Scenes. Blazing instrumentals, infectious choruses, passages that soar with spirit and passages laden with sinister mood, subtle bits, bombastic bits, funny bits, serious bits, long songs, short songs, heavy songs, mellow songs...
It's got it all. Meself, I don't think it's got as much character as some of the others, but that almost works in its favour here. It's an unbiased, often beautiful slab of pure Dream Theater. Wonderful.
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You know, as much as I don't like it, I think SFAM would be the album. It defines everything about DT: wonderful vocal melodies, complex and intricate musical passages, interesting or dull lyrics, tying themes (I know that it's a concept album, but there are obvious tying themes within it), the feeling of epicness, and a musically tight sound.
I wonder why it doesn't click as well with as it does with others. ???
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Aha! You're like me!
I think I like the bias. I like Octavarium because it's poppy and eclectic, I like Six Degrees because it's experimental. Scenes is just standard DT, and while that's completely a fantastic thing, there's not so much of a USP, and so I tend to gravitate to the variations on the theme. They're more unpredictable and quirky.
Well, not unpredictable. I know the songs inside out. But you get the gist!
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Gotta be Scenes. Blazing instrumentals, infectious choruses, passages that soar with spirit and passages laden with sinister mood, subtle bits, bombastic bits, funny bits, serious bits, long songs, short songs, heavy songs, mellow songs...
It's got it all. Meself, I don't think it's got as much character as some of the others, but that almost works in its favour here. It's an unbiased, often beautiful slab of pure Dream Theater. Wonderful.
Well put :tup
It has a bit of everything, but never seems to lean too far into any particular direction. It's heavy, but not too heavy. It's proggy, yet still broken down into easily digestible segments. It has everything in balance.
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Awake. It's basically the definitive progressive metal album for me. It's the one I would show to anyone not familiar with the genre. I&W was superb, but they really refined their sound and fixed all of the little niggling flaws that were present in their songwriting.
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Aha! You're like me!
I think I like the bias. I like Octavarium because it's poppy and eclectic, I like Six Degrees because it's experimental. Scenes is just standard DT, and while that's completely a fantastic thing, I tend to gravitate to the variations on the theme. They're more unpredictable and quirky.
Well, not unpredictable. I know the songs inside out. But you get the gist!
I do! In fact, quite so, that I must often wonder that you may be a blood relation to me! But then I get a little carried away by my thoughts and the processes that brought me to understand why another human soul would be so much like. . .me!
It really is quite the idea. I always considered myself a unique individual, since we have unique fingerprints after all. But hey! Perhaps we should compare fingerprints some time and see if we handbang to Train of thought at the same rate of bobbing to neck movement ratio and if our body proportions account for such little discrepancy!
Sir, our tastes in the standard fare album that is Scenes is really something to behold, and I will not take it lightly. I find that this common feature we share within the two of us is something special, and I offer you my hand in friendship, so go on, shake my hand! This is the true beauty of progressive metal; that it brings to unlikely similar individuals to a place where they can stand together and enjoy life as a rock enjoys a cliff where tides cannot sweep it away.
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I think there should be a "No such thing with DT" option.
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
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Aha! You're like me!
I think I like the bias. I like Octavarium because it's poppy and eclectic, I like Six Degrees because it's experimental. Scenes is just standard DT, and while that's completely a fantastic thing, I tend to gravitate to the variations on the theme. They're more unpredictable and quirky.
Well, not unpredictable. I know the songs inside out. But you get the gist!
I do! In fact, quite so, that I must often wonder that you may be a blood relation to me! But then I get a little carried away by my thoughts and the processes that brought me to understand why another human soul would be so much like. . .me!
It really is quite the idea. I always considered myself a unique individual, since we have unique fingerprints after all. But hey! Perhaps we should compare fingerprints some time and see if we handbang to Train of thought at the same rate of bobbing to neck movement ratio and if our body proportions account for such little discrepancy!
Sir, our tastes in the standard fare album that is Scenes is really something to behold, and I will not take it lightly. I find that this common feature we share within the two of us is something special, and I offer you my hand in friendship, so go on, shake my hand! This is the true beauty of progressive metal; that it brings to unlikely similar individuals to a place where they can stand together and enjoy life as a rock enjoys a cliff where tides cannot sweep it away.
You know, I'm just a little bit creeped out now, but I'm gonna shake that metaphorical hand.
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
That's what I was going to post, but now I don't have to. Thanks, Kev!
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AWAKE FOR PRESIDENT.
Awake has all those heavy, vocal intensive songs and those catchy ballad songs. It's the most balanced album from them. I&W is too light to represent their career.
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Aha! You're like me!
I think I like the bias. I like Octavarium because it's poppy and eclectic, I like Six Degrees because it's experimental. Scenes is just standard DT, and while that's completely a fantastic thing, I tend to gravitate to the variations on the theme. They're more unpredictable and quirky.
Well, not unpredictable. I know the songs inside out. But you get the gist!
I do! In fact, quite so, that I must often wonder that you may be a blood relation to me! But then I get a little carried away by my thoughts and the processes that brought me to understand why another human soul would be so much like. . .me!
It really is quite the idea. I always considered myself a unique individual, since we have unique fingerprints after all. But hey! Perhaps we should compare fingerprints some time and see if we handbang to Train of thought at the same rate of bobbing to neck movement ratio and if our body proportions account for such little discrepancy!
Sir, our tastes in the standard fare album that is Scenes is really something to behold, and I will not take it lightly. I find that this common feature we share within the two of us is something special, and I offer you my hand in friendship, so go on, shake my hand! This is the true beauty of progressive metal; that it brings to unlikely similar individuals to a place where they can stand together and enjoy life as a rock enjoys a cliff where tides cannot sweep it away.
You know, I'm just a little bit creeped out now, but I'm gonna shake that metaphorical hand.
:lol
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
That's what I was going to post, but now I don't have to. Thanks, Kev!
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Scenes from a memory, without a doubt. It's weird people think I&W is the definitive one - Dream Theater is a progressive metal band, yet I&W certainly ain't that much metal. Scenes from a memory has everything the band is about.
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AWAKE FOR PRESIDENT.
Awake has all those heavy, vocal intensive songs and those catchy ballad songs. It's the most balanced album from them. I&W is too light to represent their career.
I concur!
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Awake is my favourite but I think that SFAM is the definitive DT album. It simply has everything DT is about. SDOIT would probably be my second choice.
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Six Degrees!
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
Yeah, pretty much this word for word.
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Scenes for me. It is when they got control and went full on prog. It was a great progression to that album.
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I'd have to go with Octavarium. The album's very purpose seems to have been to consolidate the band's sound over the course of their career until that point, and in that regard I believe they succeeded. It was heavy, melodic, proggy, epic...all the things that characterized DT throughout their previous seven albums.
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For me it is Six Degrees. It contains samples of the best aspects of DT, from the heavily aggressive Glass Prison to the 45 minute progressive wankfest that is the second disc, and all in between. Though I&W still is my favorite, as a definitive album, Six Degrees bridges all the gaps in DT's career.
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45 minute progressive wankfest that is the second disc
I'll give you The Test That Stumped Them All, but SDOIT (the song), is not a wankfest AT ALL
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45 minute progressive wankfest that is the second disc
I'll give you The Test That Stumped Them All, but SDOIT (the song), is not a wankfest AT ALL
I knew I'd get called out that one. I'm not referring to specific musical aspects of that album, I am in no way a musician and therefor cannot pass judgement. I'm talking more about how no individual part of the song cannot really stand on its own. It was by no means a degrading comment, but more pointing out that half of DT that favors the long, epic style of song.
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Alright, I just find that I love long epic movements like SDOIT, 8VM and ACOS. They transcend what a "song" is. It's like comparing a tv show(song) to a movie (epics)
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Alright, I just find that I love long epic movements like SDOIT, 8VM and ACOS. They transcend what a "song" is. It's like comparing a tv show(song) to a movie (epics)
Your talking to someone who's favorite album is Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans. Trust me, I understand completely.
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
That's what I was going to post, but now I don't have to. Thanks, Kev!
Always glad to help. :) :tup
I&W is too light to represent their career.
??? "Pull Me Under," "Take the Time," "Metropolis" and "Under a Glass Moon" would all like a word with you outside. :biggrin:
Scenes from a memory, without a doubt. It's weird people think I&W is the definitive one - Dream Theater is a progressive metal band, yet I&W certainly ain't that much metal.
??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
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I have to say I&W for the reasons Kev stated, it just have all the classic DT songs.
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I was gonna vote Octavarium, but I've convinced that SFAM is the correct answer.
Thus, I voted ToT.
just kidding
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I&W easily. That album was the foundation for everything the band has become.
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As a definitive album, I picked SFAM. It's a perfect blend between "new" and "old" DT (whatever that means...) and it's a clear representation of how DT want to sound.
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I&W easily. That album was the foundation for everything the band has become.
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Scenes - perfection?...yes, DT's best?....yes, Encapsulates the best from all era's of DT?...yes.
I rest my case.
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Do you notice how diverse peoples picks are. This is why DT is so great. Never staying on one style while still being DT. This is why I love this band.
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Do you notice how diverse peoples picks are.
Yeah, they are so diverse that four albums haven't gotten a single vote yet. :P
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Do you notice how diverse peoples picks are.
Yeah, they are so diverse that four albums haven't gotten a single vote yet. :P
Ha!! :D Only one album deserves a vote hef and that's FII. The other's speak for themselves. They are not bad but compared to the other albums.......
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:biggrin:
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Images and Words
Really though, it is the album that started DT, it will forever be a part of their setlists and a part of their story.
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I think the most diverse and best representing of DT's sound is Octavarium.
However, if we are talking which album will go down in history as THE Dream Theater album, it would be Images and Words.
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??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I thought Beyond this life and Home are much more metal than Pull me under or Under a glass moon. I&W is still not quite representative in terms of the metal side of Dream Theater in my opinion. And that's an important side.
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??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I thought Beyond this life and Home are much more metal than Pull me under or Under a glass moon. I&W is still not quite representative in terms of the metal side of Dream Theater in my opinion. And that's an important side.
But their metal side is only at the forefront on a relatively low number of songs. I&W is very representative of DT's overall sound.
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??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I thought Beyond this life and Home are much more metal than Pull me under or Under a glass moon. I&W is still not quite representative in terms of the metal side of Dream Theater in my opinion. And that's an important side.
But their metal side is only at the forefront on a relatively low number of songs. I&W is very representative of DT's overall sound.
That's a bingo! :)
Oh, and while OV might be diverse in that the band did different types of songs, I don't see anyway it is DT's definitive album. Not only is the songwriting too inconsistent (my opinion, I know), but it is far too low on the wankery scale. Like it or not, wanking is a big part of their sound, and OV is by far the album with the least amount of wanking, so given that, it seems crazy to call it possibly their definitive album. It would be like calling Damnation Opeth's definitive CD.
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Oh, and while OV might be diverse in that the band did different types of songs, I don't see anyway it is DT's definitive album. Not only is the songwriting too inconsistent (my opinion, I know), but it is far too low on the wankery scale. Like it or not, wanking is a big part of their sound, and OV is by far the album with the least amount of wanking, so given that, it seems crazy to call it possibly their definitive album.
I definitely agree with this.
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Images And Words is the definitive Dream Theater album.
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Oh, and while OV might be diverse in that the band did different types of songs, I don't see anyway it is DT's definitive album. Not only is the songwriting too inconsistent (my opinion, I know), but it is far too low on the wankery scale. Like it or not, wanking is a big part of their sound, and OV is by far the album with the least amount of wanking, so given that, it seems crazy to call it possibly their definitive album.
I definitely agree with this.
Aye. Plus all the styles are in extreme. There's no middle ground. It's not "average Dream Theater," it's Dream Theater at the ends of the spectrum.
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Definitely either SDOIT or SFAM. Both of those albums are the perfect blend of heaviness, proginess, strong melodic songwriting, quirkiness, and flashiness balanced with tastefulness. And I feel they're the perfect middle ground between "old" DT and "new" DT.
If I had to pick one album to show someone what DT is about, nothing can top these two.
This guy. He knows what's up.
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??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I thought Beyond this life and Home are much more metal than Pull me under or Under a glass moon. I&W is still not quite representative in terms of the metal side of Dream Theater in my opinion. And that's an important side.
But their metal side is only at the forefront on a relatively low number of songs. I&W is very representative of DT's overall sound.
That's a bingo! :)
Oh, and while OV might be diverse in that the band did different types of songs, I don't see anyway it is DT's definitive album. Not only is the songwriting too inconsistent (my opinion, I know), but it is far too low on the wankery scale. Like it or not, wanking is a big part of their sound, and OV is by far the album with the least amount of wanking, so given that, it seems crazy to call it possibly their definitive album. It would be like calling Damnation Opeth's definitive CD.
I was told by someone somewhere, that men go gay for KevShmev. Just too much wisdom :D
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I was told by someone somewhere, that men go gay for KevShmev. Just too much wisdom :D
:lol Not only that, but women swoon! :biggrin:
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How is Scenes not winning this poll?
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I'm not surprised that I&W is winning but I am surprised that Awake doesn't have more votes.
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Personally Images for all the reasons Kev said. I can see the argument for Scenes though. Blob does raise an interesting point with Six Degrees but I see that album more as the true potential this current lineup has than the Dream Theater album.
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How is Scenes not winning this poll?
I&W makes sense too.
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I&W - perfection?...yes, DT's best?....yes, Encapsulates the best from all era's of DT?...yes.
I rest my case.
Fixed.
When someone asks me "Who and what is Dream Theater", I always point them towards I&W. 6DoIT isn't their second best, but it would be my second choice as does start to incorporate some of their heavier stuff, yet retains the signature DT sound from the I&W/Awake albums.
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How is Scenes not winning this poll?
Because it isn't the definitive DT album.
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SFAM is much more representative of DT than IaW is. That's not to say that IaW isn't amazing of course (it's my 2nd favourite, and I rank it slightly above SFAM), but it doesn't have the diversity that SFAM has that much better demonstrates all aspects of their sound.
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SFAM is much more representative of DT than IaW is. That's not to say that IaW isn't amazing of course (it's my 2nd favourite, and I rank it slightly above SFAM), but it doesn't have the diversity that SFAM has that much better demonstrates all aspects of their sound.
Hmmm... what if you look at it this way...
Pull Me Under vs. Overture 1928 / Strange Déjà Vu
Another Day vs. Through Her Eyes
Take The Time vs. Beyond This Life
Surrounded vs. Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
Metropolis vs. Home
Under A Glass Moon vs. The Dance Of Eternity / One Last Time
Wait For Sleep vs. The Spirit Carries On
Learning To Live vs. Finally Free
Some of the match-ups aren't very close, but a lot of them are.... oddly enough, those match-ups are pretty even, IMO... both albums are pretty good, and do share a good range of the band's sounds, but only of that period. IAW is THE sound that DT had from the early-to-mid 90's... but SFAM is THE sound that DT has been exploring since Jordan joined the band... a sound that they were moving from and improving as they grew. Granted, SFAM has some great songs and a good diversity, IMO, but so does IAW... just... in a different way.
-Marc.
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SFAM is much more representative of DT than IaW is. That's not to say that IaW isn't amazing of course (it's my 2nd favourite, and I rank it slightly above SFAM), but it doesn't have the diversity that SFAM has that much better demonstrates all aspects of their sound.
Hmmm... what if you look at it this way...
Pull Me Under vs. Overture 1928 / Strange Déjà Vu
Another Day vs. Through Her Eyes
Take The Time vs. Beyond This Life
Surrounded vs. Through My Words / Fatal Tragedy
Metropolis vs. Home
Under A Glass Moon vs. The Dance Of Eternity / One Last Time
Wait For Sleep vs. The Spirit Carries On
Learning To Live vs. Finally Free
Some of the match-ups aren't very close, but a lot of them are.... oddly enough, those match-ups are pretty even, IMO... both albums are pretty good, and do share a good range of the band's sounds, but only of that period. IAW is THE sound that DT had from the early-to-mid 90's... but SFAM is THE sound that DT has been exploring since Jordan joined the band... a sound that they were moving from and improving as they grew. Granted, SFAM has some great songs and a good diversity, IMO, but so does IAW... just... in a different way.
-Marc.
But to me IaW only represents a smaller era of DT. I can't listen to IaW and say it represents the last decade of their career. SFAM sits right in the middle, and I feel it is a good mix of what came before it, and what came after it.
That's not to say that IaW isn't a worse album or less diverse at all, but if I had to pick one album that feels like it most represents the sound of every other album, SFAM feels like the least biased towards any particular sound, while IaW has a more distinctive sound that separates it a bit more from their other albums compared to SFAM.
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??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I thought Beyond this life and Home are much more metal than Pull me under or Under a glass moon. I&W is still not quite representative in terms of the metal side of Dream Theater in my opinion. And that's an important side.
I fully agree with what you said.
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But to me IaW only represents a smaller era of DT. I can't listen to IaW and say it represents the last decade of their career. SFAM sits right in the middle, and I feel it is a good mix of what came before it, and what came after it.
That's not to say that IaW isn't a worse album or less diverse at all, but if I had to pick one album that feels like it most represents the sound of every other album, SFAM feels like the least biased towards any particular sound, while IaW has a more distinctive sound that separates it a bit more from their other albums compared to SFAM.
Oh of course, I totally agree! I was just saying that it's got a different kind of diversity, for it's time period. But I do agree with you, SFAM does present the sound they are coming from, and heading toward, and is pretty representative of their sound (especially being right in the middle of their career!).
-Marc.
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SFAM isn't representative because it's the only concept album they've done. When you've done something only once, it can't be representative of your career. In much the same way, there is no way that Train of Thought could be representative of their career.
There are examples of all of their facets on Images & Words (other than certain negative ones that may have crept up in some of their latter albums), and by and large these facets occur in some of the best songs they've ever done.
But whatever.
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Just because Scenes is a rock opera doesn't really mean its disqualified from being called the "definitive" DT album. I guess we could also disqualify WDADU, Images, Awake, Falling Into Infinity, and 6DoiT too because their lyrics aren't representative of DT's overall writing anymore. But lyrics have never been the greatest strength, so it would be better to look at the music. In my opinion, the technical, heavy, and melodic side of DT's music are all contained in this one album, never leaning more towards one direction. Its pretty much the perfect album to present to someone who wants to know what DT sound like.
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I chose I&W because it encompasses the aspects of DT that I personally favor, but I think you could make a case for just about any of their albums. With the possible exceptions of SC, ToT, and FII (although I love FII).
-J
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Yeah hef, I don't see how being a concept album disqualifies it. The lyrical style is still representative of their music, and they have similar, although obviously not as strong, musical connections on other albums too, like Awake and Octavarium. I think the fact it's a concept album is what makes it so diverse though, with a variety of short and longer songs, and I still think it's a lot more representative of their music than IaW. I can listen to SFAM and hear elements of IaW (for obvious reason lol) and I can hear elements of newer albums. When I listen to IaW, it doesn't sound like anything they've done since. Obviously all of the elements of DT's music are there, but they're executed in a unique way that I don't feel represents DT as a whole.
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Let's just admit it, the original question is too damn hard to answer.
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Let's just admit it, the original question is too damn hard to answer.
Maybe, but narrowing it down to 2 isn't too shabby.
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It doesn't surprise me that SFAM is a close 2nd to I&W. They represent DT's career very well and it's fitting since both are considered to be a new beginning and a pivotal turning point during some adverse times.
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Yeah hef, I don't see how being a concept album disqualifies it. The lyrical style is still representative of their music, and they have similar, although obviously not as strong, musical connections on other albums too, like Awake and Octavarium. I think the fact it's a concept album is what makes it so diverse though, with a variety of short and longer songs, and I still think it's a lot more representative of their music than IaW. I can listen to SFAM and hear elements of IaW (for obvious reason lol) and I can hear elements of newer albums. When I listen to IaW, it doesn't sound like anything they've done since. Obviously all of the elements of DT's music are there, but they're executed in a unique way that I don't feel represents DT as a whole.
That's what it is for me. The concept album aspect can't overcome the fact that SFAM shows a matured summarization of what their music is about.
rumborak
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Let's just admit it, the original question is too damn hard to answer.
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
That's what I was going to post, but now I don't have to. Thanks, Kev!
Always glad to help. :) :tup
I&W is too light to represent their career.
??? "Pull Me Under," "Take the Time," "Metropolis" and "Under a Glass Moon" would all like a word with you outside. :biggrin:
Scenes from a memory, without a doubt. It's weird people think I&W is the definitive one - Dream Theater is a progressive metal band, yet I&W certainly ain't that much metal.
??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I've always felt Prater's production (plus the mixing) kind of hid the heaviness of some of the I&W riffs a little bit. Petrucci's guitar is often slightly buried under the keys, which were much more melodic in nature. In fact, ironically this is the only thing I would change about the production on I&W - beef up the rhythm guitar a little bit. The remaster on the greatest hits collection was a better indication of the heaviness of the PMU main riff.
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I'm gonna go with the most obvious choice and say I&W.
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I had to go with Images and Words. It has all elements that truely define DT: epic songs, amazing melodies and transitions, guitar and keyboard harmonies, great vocals, and great lyrics. Octavarium was second. Whenever I introduce people to DT I usually pick a song from one of these two albums. SFAM came very close, but for me it's one of those albums you have to listen through completely. And I think you kind of have to have an appreciation for that before listening to it. Kind of a lot to chew on the first go.
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While Awake is my favorite, I think Images and Words is undoubtedly their definitive record. Every song is a genuine DT classic (not surprising that this era was when their songwriting was at its peak), every band member is at their best, especially JLB, and it just has the sound of a band that is clicking on all cylinders and looking to show the world what they can do.
That's what I was going to post, but now I don't have to. Thanks, Kev!
Always glad to help. :) :tup
I&W is too light to represent their career.
??? "Pull Me Under," "Take the Time," "Metropolis" and "Under a Glass Moon" would all like a word with you outside. :biggrin:
Scenes from a memory, without a doubt. It's weird people think I&W is the definitive one - Dream Theater is a progressive metal band, yet I&W certainly ain't that much metal.
??? I&W is just as much metal as SFAM, relatively speaking; not as much so as ToT, but the balance of metal and prog is about equal on I&W and SFAM, if you ask me. I&W might have "Surrounded," "Wait for Sleep" and "Another Day," but SFAM has "Through Her Eyes," "One Last Time" and "The Spirit Carries On." And both CDs end with an epic that ranges from fairly mellow to rocking (but never really metal).
I've always felt Prater's production (plus the mixing) kind of hid the heaviness of some of the I&W riffs a little bit. Petrucci's guitar is often slightly buried under the keys, which were much more melodic in nature. In fact, ironically this is the only thing I would change about the production on I&W - beef up the rhythm guitar a little bit. The remaster on the greatest hits collection was a better indication of the heaviness of the PMU main riff.
It definitely hid the heaviness a bit, although I'm still not sure I'd call them heavy enough to represent DT's sound overall, at least in album form. Although PMU and UAGM both sound pretty heavy on their live DVDs.
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Actually, I was also just thinking that for an album to qualify as the "definitive" DT album, it would have to contain a number of the band's most popular songs, of which I&W certainly does with at least 4 qualifying for that honor. SFAM's most popular song is probably (like it or not) The Spirit Carries On, which isn't really representative of the album as a whole. Don't get me wrong, I think SFAM is a great choice, but I think it and SDoiT probably come in second behind I&W.
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Actually, I was also just thinking that for an album to qualify as the "definitive" DT album, it would have to contain a number of the band's most popular songs, of which I&W certainly does with at least 4 qualifying for that honor. SFAM's most popular song is probably (like it or not) The Spirit Carries On, which isn't really representative of the album as a whole.
Good point.
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Tough choice deciding between 6DOIT and 8V. Went with 6DOIT though.
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I knew it would be a toss up between I&W and SFAM. I had to go with the latter based on prog/concept album - meaning SFAM is at its best with regards to concept, soloing, balls and chunk, vocal range, and overall DT presence.
That said, I do recognize that SFAM is a part II of sorts from Metropolis ala I&W. I also recognize I can not take away anything from I&W as it stands alone by itself. I simply feel that SFAM is definitive as a DT album.
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SFAM in vocal range over I&W? Interesting.
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SFAM in vocal range over I&W? Interesting.
Maybe he means emotional range? Also, on SFAM I think JLB would sing some lower notes than on IaW, so maybe it does work out to as much range or more? I dunno, insinctively I'm just as baffled by the statement as you.
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To clarify, yes, low to high notes I feel are better represented in SFAM by JLB. Also, not sure it's the first time, but we get to hear MP sing backing vocals as well. This was something that I never really expected but welcomed once I heard it play out. Seems that now, a DT album without MP singing on it would be missing something. Perhaps not. Hard to say.
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To each their own I guess. Portnoy vocals aren't really my cup of tea and neither are Petrucci vocals really. And not that he was bad on SFAM but James actually had full range back in 91/92.
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To each their own I guess. Portnoy vocals aren't really my cup of tea and neither are Petrucci vocals really. And not that he was bad on SFAM but James actually had full range back in 91/92.
With the length of their career, though - James has released two albums pre-incident, and seven albums post-incident. I think his stratospheric high-notes are, historically, something of an anomaly, rather than a definitive element of their sound.
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I love the recent trend of big harmonies with JLB/MP/JP. It gives it a much fuller sound, and both JP and MP have a good vocal tone for those mid range vocals.
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I love the recent trend of big harmonies with JLB/MP/JP. It gives it a much fuller sound, and both JP and MP have a good vocal tone for those mid range vocals.
I feel I should probably quote this. I don't have anything to add, I just approve massively.
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I love the recent trend of big harmonies with JLB/MP/JP. It gives it a much fuller sound, and both JP and MP have a good vocal tone for those mid range vocals.
I agree with this as well.
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To each their own I guess. Portnoy vocals aren't really my cup of tea and neither are Petrucci vocals really. And not that he was bad on SFAM but James actually had full range back in 91/92.
With the length of their career, though - James has released two albums pre-incident, and seven albums post-incident. I think his stratospheric high-notes are, historically, something of an anomaly, rather than a definitive element of their sound.
Unfortunately. But a big element of that is that MP/JP don't WANT him to sing like that anymore, it's "dated". :\
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That's a shame if true. I know Labrie can easily use his whole range without making the high notes sound cheesy and 80s.
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That's a shame if true. I know Labrie can easily use his whole range without making the high notes sound cheesy and 80s.
That makes at least 2 of us that think so.