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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: jcmistat on November 17, 2009, 12:25:05 AM
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It has become one of my favorite songs. I used to only listen to The Glass Prison on the first disc of Six Degrees but not anymore. TGD is way better! I love MP's slow intro on the drums the way the whole song just flows. One of Petrucci's best solos as well. Everything about the song is :metal
What's everyone's thought on this song? How does it rank? Over or underrated?
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It's a great song. The problem is, all the other songs on the first disc of SDOIT are. :hat
Anyway, I love the atmosphere the song creates. And the instrumental section is very cool as well.
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At first I didn't care for this one at all, but then after repeated listens it clicked the hell out of me. Great great song.
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It's really cool, LaBrie is amazing here. :metal
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At first I didn't care for this one at all, but then after repeated listens it clicked the hell out of me. Great great song.
Same thing happened to me. I remember having my DT playlist on shuffle while playing Unreal Tournament one night, when suddenly I felt this chill go down my spine during the intro.
And then "LIFE TO SAVE LIFE" was an eargasm.
Fantastic song, but a bit of a grower.
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This song gets way more shit than it deserves. Putting aside its obscure subject matter, the music here is really nice, and LaBrie is at his best since Awake on this song particularly. The introduction and outro are insane, and all of the music in the middle is well constructed and diverse. I love Jordan's ambient approach, and this song is arguably Mike's best performance in terms of technicality and creativity.
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This song seems to be a real fanbase-splitter. A number of us love it (it's one of my favourite DT songs), some like it, but some have a strong dislike for it, so it always goes out in the first round of the SDOIT survivor.
I think it's amazing anyway, great atmoshphere, great riffs and some great melodies. And the subject matter itself isn't necessarily great, but I really like the way JP presents it, giving both sides without ever forcing his own beliefs.
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An excellent song, and one of my favorites. I will never understand why some people hate this song so much.
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An excellent song, and one of my favorites. I will never understand why some people hate this song so much.
This. A fantastic song. A little cheesy, but with feeling and power.
"Are you justified?" :metal
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As a finished work, very cool. The song itself is great, but the soundbyte barrage at the beginning has no replay value for me. I understand that it sets up "the great debate" and is relevant blah blah blah, but I hate listening to people blab in real life; why would I want to listen to it on an song? SHUT THE FUCK UP, THE MUSIC IS STARTING!
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I enjoy it, but there's no doubting that it's the biggest Tool-ripoff ever recorded.
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Top 3 song for me, below Metropolis and Octavarium.
It's got in it all the things that makes DT great, yet it feels vastly different from anything else they've put out. It takes a lot to stand out on 6DOIT, but The Great Debate shines above them all.
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Great song, too often overlooked given the awesomeness of SDOIT disc 1.
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This was the first song on the first disc I really got into. TGP didn't really click with me til much later.
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I loved it at first listen. Definitely an awesome tune.
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Worst DT song. Looong drawn out intro made infinitely worse by the constant babbling of the samples. Ridiculous robot voice production. Silly overdramatic lyrics that refuse to take a stand.
I don't know what else, I haven't listened to it in at least 2 years. The meat of the song isn't even that bad, it's just the most excruciating thing to try and listen to.
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About the Tool ripoff, they had Aenima with them in the studio along with a bunch of other albums. As for the song, I dont care about the obvious Tool homage, I love me some Great Debate :metal
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I don't like that song. Rarely listen to it. It doesn't have anything special and it's way too long.
EDIT: I've just listened to the song again. It's been a while. I think the "Turn to the light" chorus has a lot of potential. It's pretty good. But the rest is just really long and bowring for me. It's probably the worst intro to a song the band has done.
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??? I think the intro is awesome, it builds up to the song in a really cool way. Definately superior to the similar styled intro in SS.
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Yeah the buildup in the intro is one the great things about the song! :)
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It would be if it didn't last for 5 minutes and have a bunch of people talking over it.
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I made a 9:29 edit of the song where the main riff comes in right before the samples start. For the end, I put the Tool riff that's before the second verse after the main riff before the samples start up again. Make sense? It's not perfect, but it works nicely for the sample haters... At least that's what I'd assume.
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It would be if it didn't last for 5 minutes and have a bunch of people talking over it.
Exactly
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I enjoy it, but there's no doubting that it's the biggest Tool-ripoff ever recorded.
I prefer to call it a Tool influenced song. :biggrin:
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Yeah the Tool influence is very noticable, but in no way would I call the song a rip-off.
And I've never had a problem with samples in songs. Guess that's a personal taste thing, but I feel they add a lot to this particular song.
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^ That.
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Incredible song. I really can't come up with a single thing about it that I don't like. I lot of people don't like it. But then again, a lot of people are retarded. :biggrin:
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I do loooove the song a very great deal, but think the samples drag after the first few listens and they could achieve the same kind of buildup in less time. The 'life to save life' bits are worth any buildup though, I wish they used them more.
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I'm sure it's against forum rules...
You are correct. And if you are sure it is against hte forum rules, why would you post it and risk getting yourself banned? Don't do that again.
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Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that. Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.
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And I've never had a problem with samples in songs. Guess that's a personal taste thing, but I feel they add a lot to this particular song.
The samples help build the intensity in the intro, IMO. But they don't really get in the way, because as soon as the intro is over and that riff comes in, the samples shut the hell up and let the song get down to business.
If anything, I think The Great Debate might be an example of how to use samples well.
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One of the songs my friend used to get me into DT after Scenes and Octavarium. Great song that doesn't deserve any of the hate it gets.
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Really great song, with possibly JP's worst solo. I hate that solo, it almost ruins the song for me.
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I really love the samples in this song, as well as those in Honor Thy Father. I wonder why DT hasn't done anything like it recently? Then again, their past few albums have been very live-oriented.
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Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that. Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.
That's funny I love this song but I dislike Tool.
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Awesome song. The only reason I think it gets voted off quickly in the SDOIT survivor is that all the other songs are just slightly better. The intro is a great build up, though it is dragged out slightly too much. The prechorus is astoundingly good. The chorus is :metal.
Really great song, with possibly JP's worst solo. I hate that solo, it almost ruins the song for me.
WTF
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Favorite off of Six Degrees, other than the title track. Love it.
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I like it a lot and no, people aren't retarded if they don't like it.
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Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that. Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.
(https://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/fail-dvd-rewinder.jpg)
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Everything about the song is :metal
this
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I'd like to clarify that although I find it to be a Tool ripoff, that doesn't mean I do not enjoy it. I do think it is a decent track.
I'm not all that huge of a Tool fan anyway, so its not as if I get offended by its similarities.
I do think the end drags on forever. It is a song that could benefit from a good edit.
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I used to hate the song, purely for the mismatch of lyrics to the awesome music, and the samples. But I actually don't mind the samples now, but I can still easily relate to those who think they drag forever.
Musically it's great though.
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I'm listening to it now. Awesome song.
One of my favorites.
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Love this song, its actually my favorite song on the album.
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Not only does it rip-off Tool, it also rips of Natural Science's main riff.
Still awesome though. :P
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Good song; the least best on Disc 1, but still a good song. I love the long intro...that buildup is incredible. For some reason, though, I feel like this song never really climaxes the way it probably should have. I don't know if it is the chorus not being as good as everything else, or the song fading out the same way it faded in, instead of having a more fitting ending, but it seems like it is a song that has a lot of buildup, but you never really get the payoff. It is like drunk sex. ;) :lol
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I think it's definitely the fact it ends the way it begins. But I get the feeling it's supposed to end without reaching a peak. Sort of like being a period in time of a continuing issue, rather than a song with a definitive conclusion or climax, if that makes sense.
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I dunno, I mean, it doesn't have the typical DT epic ending, but I love the way the ending works, and I think the song still gets pretty climactic at the "are you justified" and "life to save life" bits.
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I think it's definitely the fact it ends the way it begins. But I get the feeling it's supposed to end without reaching a peak. Sort of like being a period in time of a continuing issue, rather than a song with a definitive conclusion or climax, if that makes sense.
Um... 11:20-25? And then it slowly winds down afterwards. That's definitely the climax -> resolution. Musically speaking.
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The stem cell debate really hasn't ended yet... so I think the fade out kinda reflects that.
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ariich is the white coat hero.
I miss that DT wiki page :(
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ariich is the white coat hero.
I miss that DT wiki page :(
Me too :sadpanda:
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The stem cell debate really hasn't ended yet... so I think the fade out kinda reflects that.
Exactly. The song takes a look at both sides, then steps back out of the picture, and the debate goes on.
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I said musically speaking. :facepalm:
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I remember buying this when I was working half days while I was getting cancer treatments(Chemo). I didn't have to go to work till 11:30 am so I went to Best buy to get the album when the doors opened at 10am. This song on my way to work was the one that really grabbed me. I still love this song blasting in my car.
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I said musically speaking. :facepalm:
Musically there's a resolution of sorts, but it's not a strong one, and that's to reflect the subject matter. Or are you implying that the music and lyrics aren't tied together?
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I said musically speaking. :facepalm:
Musically there's a resolution of sorts, but it's not a strong one, and that's to reflect the subject matter. Or are you implying that the music and lyrics aren't tied together?
No, I was just trying to answer Blob with a more technical answer... but uh... :lol
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Sorry, I've been posting a lot lately while less-than-sober. I don't remember half the shit I've posted lately.
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Yes, it sounds like Tool but it's much better than that. Kinda like DT are with a lot of things, actually.
(https://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/fail-dvd-rewinder.jpg)
:lol
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I for one am one of the people who think it's a less-than-stellar effort by DT.
The lyrics annoyed me from day one. There's really zero insight to be gleaned about the issue from them, and I always wondered whether the writer of the lyrics had even the slightest idea what stem cells are. Sadly, it also marked the first venture of DT writing lyrics about contemporary issues, and they kinda established the low watermark of quality they usually are.
But, that was all ok, until I heard the original Tool song. And that just pissed me off. Just like the solo of Trial of Tears pissed me off when I heard the original.
rumborak
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I for one am one of the people who think it's a less-than-stellar effort by DT.
The lyrics annoyed me from day one. There's really zero insight to be gleaned about the issue from them, and I always wondered whether the writer of the lyrics had even the slightest idea what stem cells are. Sadly, it also marked the first venture of DT writing lyrics about contemporary issues, and they kinda established the low watermark of quality they usually are.
But, that was all ok, until I heard the original Tool song. And that just pissed me off. Just like the solo of Trial of Tears pissed me off when I heard the original.
rumborak
Haven't heard Natural Science, I take it? :P
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I like the song, think it's great actually. I like the lyrics too, don't think the lyricist necessarily needs to have a phd in stem cell research or biology or anything to be able to relay the discussion through lyrics. Also, I don't care that JP doesn't take a stance for or against and I think it's perfectly ok to just project the discussion that was at the time to lyrics for an awesome song.. It might not give you a lot of technical insight, if that's what you'd prefer rumbo(?), but I think they do get to the core about why it's such a debated issue. You know, miracle potential vs sanctity of life. Both through the samples (for those who care to listen) and the main lyrics. Maybe I'm far off and JP is making some erronous statements or something, I'm not exactly an expert on stem cells so I couldn't say..
Anyway, I basically just think the lyrics sound cool and go well with the song, and that's the most important thing to me :)
I can tell it's Tool influenced, but I haven't listened to them enough that I can spot any clear rip-offs... Just like Cypher I think sometimes, ignorance is bliss ;)
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I really like this song. Took awhile to grow on me also. What is really cool at the end of the song with the samples, the pro stem cells samples are all coming out of the left speaker and the anti stem cells samples are coming out of the right speakers. Left vs Right. Libs vs Conservatives. Just another little trick DT put in the song. Very Cool.
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Freaking love this song, probably in my top 20.
I am surprised it is getting this much love, tbh.
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It used to be one of my fav songs also. I liked it along with Misunderstood, and I used to listen to both songs continuously, because there's a connection between two parts. Honestly, everything on the first disc were my favorite except Disappear. :sad:
I love the intro, where Portnoy does some cool drum beats.
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after repeated listens it clicked the hell out of me. Great great song.
Same here
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It's certainly weird.
Not a fan of the spoken stuff in the intro or outro, nor the Tool-esque effects-laden vocals, and the SDoiT production is never really a strong point IMO. That said, the solo parts are great, and some of the stuff in the middle of the song is really cool too. Overall, I find it an enjoyable song, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of my list. DT's certainly done worse, but they've just as certainly done better. It's odd that so much experimentation resulted in a solidly average DT song, but that's the way I see it.
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I really like the experimentation
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After Blind Faith, its my second favorite, I like the topic too.
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I like the song well enough, but it carries a lot of baggage for me, as I heard it in concert with my brother. Because we were polar opposites politically, the subject matter created a bit of awkwardness for us, which wouldn't be a big deal, except that concert was really the last thing we got to do together before he died.
So I really don't listen to it too much.
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9:27-11:25 is :metal
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I love this thread.
I belong to the great debate club.
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I belong to the great debate club.
I'm jelly.
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Same is with me, I didn't listened 6DOIT CD1, except the Glass Prison.Then I listen whole album and loved The Great Debate.Truly masterpiece ;D
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Hey look, TGD has been resurrected. Time to check it out.....been a while. :2metal:
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I enjoy it, but there's no doubting that it's the biggest Tool-ripoff ever recorded.
doubting it exists.. Karnivool repeatedly come closer to sounding like Tool on Sound Awake than DT does in TGD. or even parts of Riverside's last output (most notably, the song Driven To Destruction).
hell, it could even be argued DT themselves sound closer to Tool than in TGD (the 46&2 riff in Home...though i believe they wrote it possibly before aenima came out).
EDIT: just realized how old them original posts are. Sound Awake barely existed when this thread was created. my bad.
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Incredible song. I really can't come up with a single thing about it that I don't like. I lot of people don't like it. But then again, a lot of people are retarded. :biggrin:
Pretty much what I wanted to say... I wouldn't change one single element of this song.. it's just so perfect as is...
The intro is so impressive that it never ceases to get me receptive for the big message and to fill me up with the necessary emotions when the song gets to its peak... the drumming is very characteristic and tasteful... with that subtle build up in the intro I grow impatient every time and when finally I hear the very first riff.. always the same insane effect....
Samples are tasteful and so is the ground work behind them...
Vocals are insane... The high pitched vocals ( not high on JLB scale though, talking about normal human range) right after the robotic ones create a great effect... at song's peak James is shitting the emotions perfectly.. gets me every single time... the vocal melodies on the chorus are out of this world...
the main riff is beyond sick... and with that guitar tone it works brilliantly!!! ... I can listen to that riff forever on its own without any other layer added... that beautiful it is...
A masterpiece and hands down the best on the album!
Are you justified in disliking this song :p
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This is -BY FAR- my favorite track on 6DOIT
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Other than the title track, The Great Debate was the first song on 6DOIT that just clicked with me. One of the things I really like about it is that despite the length there doesn't feel like any wasted space. From the long slow buildup until the end, it is as cohesive a song as 13 minutes can be without including some of the "wank" that TGP had.
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One of the band's greatest tunes IMO. There are a few better ones, but it's up there. Definitely my favorite on the disc (unlike most people I have no positive feelings towards The Glass Prison except the first couple of minutes). I simply enjoy the tune a lot, and it's quite groovy for a DT song. Also, I tried listening to the Tool stuff some of you mentioned, but really, I don't think the song sounds like Tool. Maybe a little bit of influence, but Tool still does nada for me. If they sounded anything like TGD I'd listen to them a lot, but they don't.
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One of the things I really like about it is that despite the length there doesn't feel like any wasted space. From the long slow buildup until the end, it is as cohesive a song as 13 minutes can be
This! If you try to rush through the song instead of letting it build it looses everything.
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^ this....
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Wow, this thread has been resurrected twice, and I still don't care for this song very much.
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it was me :biggrin:
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Might be the DT song that took the longest to grow on me out of the entire discography thus far but it is an awesome song :metal
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Nem is correct. A fine tune, which deserves every second of its 13 minute length. I especially love that doomy middle section. :metal
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:heart :metal
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Easily my favourite song off 6DOIT disc 1. One of DT's most dramatic intros. I love the symmetry of the song.
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Easily my favourite song off 6DOIT disc 1. One of DT's most dramatic intros. I love the symmetry of the song.
It's probably tied with Blind Faith, but yeah, I agree with this.
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Definitely one of the highlights of Six Degrees. The Tool influence is pretty obvious but I like the atmosphere and, as said, it doesn't feel too long at all.
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I noticed the similarity to Natural Science, but there's also parts similar to Cygnus X-I Book I, at 8:10. That is, 8:10 in Cygnus not TGD :P