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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on September 16, 2021, 02:05:53 PM
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You can name DT and/or non-DT epic song.
So what's your choice?
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Octavarium
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DT - 8VM
DT - ACOS
Green Carnation, Light of Day, Day of Darkness
Edge of Sanity - Crimson
Edge of Sanity - Crimson 2
Insomnium - Winters Gate
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Transatlantic - Stranger In Your Soul
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The "20+ minute" limitation means I can't use Close to the Edge or Cygnus X-1 Book II: Hemispheres.
That means it comes down to The Gates of Delirium (Yes) or A Change of Seasons (DT), and I'm giving it to Gates by a whisker.
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Symphony X - The Odyssey
Which will be 19 years old in November holy fuck
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Anesthetize misses the cut, as well. That probably puts me in the ACoS camp. Stranger in Your Soul would be a runner up.
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Probably Stardust We Are by The Flower Kings
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Octavarium, followed by Echoes.
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Probably Supper’s Ready (Genesis) or Duel With The Devil (Transatlantic) or The Great Nothing (Spock’s Beard).
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The "20+ minute" limitation means I can't use Close to the Edge or Cygnus X-1 Book II: Hemispheres.
Agreed. I think if the thread was specifically "Side-length" epics, it would not only allow songs like CTTE or Hemispheres a place, but also narrow it down to songs that probably don't reach over 26-27 minutes long, due to the limitations of vinyl sides, so we probably won't get songs like Neal Morse's "World Without End" or DT's "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" on here.
As for strictly 20+ minute epics, "Supper's Ready" is always a favorite, but as far as modern prog goes, the bookending epics on Transatlantic's Bridge Across Forever are just benchmarks for me when it comes to symphonic prog. I also really enjoy Haken's "Visions" and of course DT's "Octavarium". Also got to shout out Pink Floyd's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", with a full version clocking in at 25:37.
Probably Stardust We Are by The Flower Kings
Also a great choice, and probably my favorite TFK epic, unless we can also count "I Am The Sun", which, when blended back together into one piece, reaches 25:23.
I know I named like a dozen in my reply, it's just really hard to narrow it down to one. :lol
-Marc.
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Speaking strictly 20+ minute single track epics, I'll go with Octavarium, doesn't mean I think it's the best epic ever (but it's up there)
though The Gates of Delirium and some Transatlantic and TFK epics are some of my faves as well.
To me, an epic is 16 or more minutes long, but 'long' also doesn't mean 'epic' in sound.
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The Most Unwanted Song
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A Change of Seasons :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy
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Octavarium
/thread.
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Yes: The Gates of Delirium
Frost*: Milliontown
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A Change of Seasons
The Odyssey
Octavarium
I’d have to revisit others, been too long since I’ve listened to Transatlantic.
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The Most Unwanted Song
Brilliant answer. Let’s go with this.
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The Gates of Delirium - Yes
Stranger in Your Soul - Transatlantic
Supper's Ready - Genesis
Singularity - Devin Townsend
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1. Echoes - Pink Floyd
2. Supper's Ready - Genesis
3. Storm - Godspeed You Black Emperor
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Transatlantic - Stranger In Your Soul
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The Arkitecht - Face Thief
X Japan - Art of Life
IQ - Harvest of Souls, The Narrow Margin
Haken - Visions
Nightwish - The Greatest Show On Earth
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X Japan - Art of Life
In my top 3. Nice to see a mention.
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X Japan - Art of Life
In my top 3. Nice to see a mention.
:tup
I had to search far and wide for a cd of it. :lol
I watched a live video of it too and it's pretty epic live as well. :metal
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2112.
1. Echoes - Pink Floyd
This was my second thought, though I go with David's Gdansk version.
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2112 by Rush is the greatest song of all time.
It is over 20 minutes long.
Therefore, the answer to this question is 2112.
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Every Transatlantic vote so far has gone to Stranger in Your Soul, but I think my choice is All of the Above.
The other contenders in my top three are probably Octavarium and The Neal Morse Band - Alive Again.
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
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By the way, this seems as good a place to share it as any, but for anyone who hasn’t seen it, someone went through the trouble of illustrating the entire song and made an incredible music video out of it!
Supper’s Ready Illustrated:
https://youtu.be/e4HfFwVy-h0
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I've tried a couple times to listen to Supper's Ready. I haven't been able to finish it.
I know I will be spending most of the day tomorrow tiling a shower by myself. I will try to remember to give it a spin while I am working. (I don't often get to do jobs like this solo, so it's nice to be able to play whatever I want instead of listening to whatever the project lead wants to listen to).
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.
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I've tried a couple times to listen to Supper's Ready. I haven't been able to finish it.
I know I will be spending most of the day tomorrow tiling a shower by myself. I will try to remember to give it a spin while I am working. (I don't often get to do jobs like this solo, so it's nice to be able to play whatever I want instead of listening to whatever the project lead wants to listen to).
It’s a slow starter. It’s actually the middle (Willow Farm) and end (Apocalypse in 9/8) sections that make the song.
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I still say that the entire Cygnus X-1 story is a single piece split into two parts, thus qualifying it as a 28 1/2 minute epic, and thus beating out 2112 as Rush’s greatest epic.
…but it is still 2nd place to Supper’s Ready. ;D
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
Yeah, that's me alright mate. I struggle a little at times outside the metal genre but still keen to give most things a go. I'll spin it tonight and report back.
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
Yeah, that's me alright mate. I struggle a little at times outside the metal genre but still keen to give most things a go. I'll spin it tonight and report back.
The ending portion (Apocalypse in 9/8) is very dark, and as heavy as anything could be in 1971. I think you’ll at least be happy with that part.
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Ya know, it comes up just 45 seconds short, but I still feel like IQ’s Without Walls deserves an honorable mention.
IQ - Without Walls
https://youtu.be/SGPd5tm5IC4
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Looking through my music I only have a few songs that hit the 20 minutes mark:
Pink Floyd - Echoes
Dream Theater Octavarium
Rush - 2112
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Octavarium
2112 (only because Hemispheres isn't two minutes longer)
The Odyssey
I have a gut feeling that "A View From The Top Of The World" will easily make this list. 💪
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The Mars Volta - Cassandra Gemini
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Yes- Rituals
IQ- Narrow Margin
Frost*- Milliontown
Haken- Visions (should be crystallized but they couldn't drag it out a few more seconds)
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
I disagree, I think that distinction goes to Close To The Edge (which was released before Foxtrot)
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The Mars Volta - Cassandra Gemini
This. Cassandra Gemini One of my all time favorite songs/epics.
TA: Stranger in Your Soul has to be up there too.
LTE: 3 minutes Warning: a jam more than an epic, but IMO the best thing LTE ever played together.
Frost*: Milliontown
Haken: Vision (though this one without listening to the album loses a bit of its essence for me)
SB: The Great Nothing
PF: Echoes
I can probably add most NM epics in that list too :biggrin:
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Every Transatlantic vote so far has gone to Stranger in Your Soul, but I think my choice is All of the Above.
The other contenders in my top three are probably Octavarium and The Neal Morse Band - Alive Again.
I actually went with Duel With the Devil over both, but I think I’d rank them Duel, AOTA, then Stranger. All are at the top of the class though!
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
I disagree, I think that distinction goes to Close To The Edge (which was released before Foxtrot)
I had to double check because I could’ve sworn Foxtrot was released in 71, but I’m wrong. Still, only about three weeks separate them. CTTE was Sep 13th and Foxtrot was Oct 6th. From a writing standpoint, that’s practically a dead heat.
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
I disagree, I think that distinction goes to Close To The Edge (which was released before Foxtrot)
I had to double check because I could’ve sworn Foxtrot was released in 71, but I’m wrong. Still, only about three weeks separate them. CTTE was Sep 13th and Foxtrot was Oct 6th. From a writing standpoint, that’s practically a dead heat.
Also, I would agree that more of the huge epics follow the format of Foxtrot than Close to the Edge, even if CTTE came out first.
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I'll add, even though not technically, on the album they broke it up, but live on the tour they did it in sequence, Genesis - The Duke Suite. I like it better than Suppers Ready. ;D
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ELP's Tarkus came out before Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready, so I would give that the nod for establishing the template that prog bands to this day follow.
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Either Close To The Edge or Supper's Ready. Probably CTTE.
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Three more that need to be mentioned:
Moon Safari - The Other Half of the Sky and Lover's End Pt. III
Big Big Train - The Underfall Yard (would be higher but the ending always felt like it needs something else)
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ELP's Tarkus came out before Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready, so I would give that the nod for establishing the template that prog bands to this day follow.
Yup, and a few months after Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition followed roughly the same template, but over (most of) both sides of the album.
Either Close To The Edge or Supper's Ready. Probably CTTE.
Except that CTTE is less than 20 minutes.
As for Supper's Ready, it's never grabbed me. The Apocalypse section is good, but the high points are too few and far between. I was hoping that, when Doug Helvering did his reaction/analysis of Supper, I'd find something more to latch onto, but that didn't happen.
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX
Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley
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.
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX
Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley
That last one is only about 16:20, according to the track times listed on Wikipedia.
-Marc.
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I've tried a couple times to listen to Supper's Ready. I haven't been able to finish it.
I know I will be spending most of the day tomorrow tiling a shower by myself. I will try to remember to give it a spin while I am working. (I don't often get to do jobs like this solo, so it's nice to be able to play whatever I want instead of listening to whatever the project lead wants to listen to).
It’s a slow starter. It’s actually the middle (Willow Farm) and end (Apocalypse in 9/8) sections that make the song.
I actually quite enjoyed that. Reminded me a lot of 8VM in song structure and the buildup. I'll need another listen but the last few minutes was pretty special. Definitely not my thing normally but I liked it.
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Thick as a Brick
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX
Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley
That last one is only about 16:20, according to the track times listed on Wikipedia.
-Marc.
Even with Her Majesty?? :) :) :)
(For those that don't know, "Her Majesty" is a 0:23 second snippet tacked on the end; there is debate if it's part of the medley or not.)
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I've tried a couple times to listen to Supper's Ready. I haven't been able to finish it.
I know I will be spending most of the day tomorrow tiling a shower by myself. I will try to remember to give it a spin while I am working. (I don't often get to do jobs like this solo, so it's nice to be able to play whatever I want instead of listening to whatever the project lead wants to listen to).
It’s a slow starter. It’s actually the middle (Willow Farm) and end (Apocalypse in 9/8) sections that make the song.
I actually quite enjoyed that. Reminded me a lot of 8VM in song structure and the buildup. I'll need another listen but the last few minutes was pretty special. Definitely not my thing normally but I liked it.
That’s awesome! :metal :metal :metal
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
I disagree, I think that distinction goes to Close To The Edge (which was released before Foxtrot)
I had to double check because I could’ve sworn Foxtrot was released in 71, but I’m wrong. Still, only about three weeks separate them. CTTE was Sep 13th and Foxtrot was Oct 6th. From a writing standpoint, that’s practically a dead heat.
True, I was just noting which got released first, but I think CttE is the template for a lot of epics out there, whereas SR is popular but I don't hear a whole lot of prog bands trying to make SR2, especially symphonic prog bands. Transatlantic's and The Flower Kings' epics alone are like second and third comings of CttE (IMO) but obviously with their own flair and distinct styles.
Octavarium has a big SR feel in the Someone Like Him section, but the overall piece (to me) moves more like a Yes epic, aside from the Pink Floydian intro.
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
I disagree, I think that distinction goes to Close To The Edge (which was released before Foxtrot)
I had to double check because I could’ve sworn Foxtrot was released in 71, but I’m wrong. Still, only about three weeks separate them. CTTE was Sep 13th and Foxtrot was Oct 6th. From a writing standpoint, that’s practically a dead heat.
True, I was just noting which got released first, but I think CttE is the template for a lot of epics out there, whereas SR is popular but I don't hear a whole lot of prog bands trying to make SR2, especially symphonic prog bands. Transatlantic's and The Flower Kings' epics alone are like second and third comings of CttE (IMO) but obviously with their own flair and distinct styles.
Octavarium has a big SR feel in the Someone Like Him section, but the overall piece (to me) moves more like a Yes epic, aside from the Pink Floydian intro.
Oh they are out there. Like wolfie said, 8V bears a resemblance. And then there’s Grendal by Marillion which borders on plagiarism.
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ELP's Tarkus came out before Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready, so I would give that the nod for establishing the template that prog bands to this day follow.
Yup, and a few months after Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition followed roughly the same template, but over (most of) both sides of the album.
and King Crimson's Lizard came out a few months before Tarkus, in December 1970.
However, I don't think those two epics (Lizard and Tarkus) were the epics later bands aspired to 're-create'. Surely later prog bands took influence (and maybe a little more) from KC, ELP, as well as Yes, Genesis, and other 70s bands, but (IMO) CttE set the bar, and few, if any, have reached it, (though some have come close)
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Almost forgot that IQ has done an SR template more than once.
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Supper’s Ready…IMO…is the greatest piece of music ever recorded by anyone…ever
This almost convinces me to check it out. Never heard it.
IIRC, you’re a real “metal guy” (I mean that as a compliment LOL) so it may not be quite heavy enough. But I will tell you this…if you feel like you’ve heard bits of it here and there, just remember that THIS was the original template that nearly every 20 minute epic borrowed from.
I disagree, I think that distinction goes to Close To The Edge (which was released before Foxtrot)
I had to double check because I could’ve sworn Foxtrot was released in 71, but I’m wrong. Still, only about three weeks separate them. CTTE was Sep 13th and Foxtrot was Oct 6th. From a writing standpoint, that’s practically a dead heat.
True, I was just noting which got released first, but I think CttE is the template for a lot of epics out there, whereas SR is popular but I don't hear a whole lot of prog bands trying to make SR2, especially symphonic prog bands. Transatlantic's and The Flower Kings' epics alone are like second and third comings of CttE (IMO) but obviously with their own flair and distinct styles.
Octavarium has a big SR feel in the Someone Like Him section, but the overall piece (to me) moves more like a Yes epic, aside from the Pink Floydian intro.
Oh they are out there. Like wolfie said, 8V bears a resemblance. And then there’s Grendal by Marillion which borders on plagiarism.
but only in that one section. The entire piece doesn't remind me of SR though, but it does remind me of Yes' epics.
I've heard other epics that seem to have had some influence from SR, but not for the entire piece.
Yes were (are) the masters of the epic, and as I said, I think they set the bar. I've listened to many (though not all) post-80s prog bands, and most, if not all, their epics are at least more structured like a Yes epic than Supper's Ready, which flows more like a suite, with distinct sections.
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ELP's Tarkus came out before Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready, so I would give that the nod for establishing the template that prog bands to this day follow.
Yup, and a few months after Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition followed roughly the same template, but over (most of) both sides of the album.
and King Crimson's Lizard came out a few months before Tarkus, in December 1970.
However, I don't think those two epics (Lizard and Tarkus) were the epics later bands aspired to 're-create'. Surely later prog bands took influence (and maybe a little more) from KC, ELP, as well as Yes, Genesis, and other 70s bands, but (IMO) CttE set the bar, and few, if any, have reached it, (though some have come close)
Well, Atom Heart Mother came out in October of '70, and had been played live many times before that. And even though it's not 20 minutes, Abbey Road Medley came out in September of '69. I think all of these were influences on what came after (particularly since both Yes and Genesis were pretty heavily influenced by the Beatles.)
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WR: what is yours?
For something different, I'll list 'Get Ready' by Rare Earth
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Almost forgot that IQ has done an SR template more than once.
I'm not familiar with a lot of IQ's music, though I've heard some of their albums. Bands like that, Marillion, Pendragon, etc.. never quite tickled my fancy.
I've always preferred the 90s bands and the TFKs, Spock's Beards of the world. Even later bands like Beardfish, Moon Safari, appealed more to me than the 80s neo-prog bands.
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ELP's Tarkus came out before Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready, so I would give that the nod for establishing the template that prog bands to this day follow.
Yup, and a few months after Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition followed roughly the same template, but over (most of) both sides of the album.
and King Crimson's Lizard came out a few months before Tarkus, in December 1970.
However, I don't think those two epics (Lizard and Tarkus) were the epics later bands aspired to 're-create'. Surely later prog bands took influence (and maybe a little more) from KC, ELP, as well as Yes, Genesis, and other 70s bands, but (IMO) CttE set the bar, and few, if any, have reached it, (though some have come close)
Well, Atom Heart Mother came out in October of '70, and had been played live many times before that. And even though it's not 20 minutes, Abbey Road Medley came out in September of '69. I think all of these were influences on what came after (particularly since both Yes and Genesis were pretty heavily influenced by the Beatles.)
We can keep going back. Procol Harum's 17 minute epic In Held 'Twas In I came out in 1968.
Point was that CttE set the standard from my perspective, for constructing grand epics, not necessarily who influenced who in terms of sound and style.
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ELP's Tarkus came out before Close to the Edge and Supper's Ready, so I would give that the nod for establishing the template that prog bands to this day follow.
Yup, and a few months after Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition followed roughly the same template, but over (most of) both sides of the album.
and King Crimson's Lizard came out a few months before Tarkus, in December 1970.
However, I don't think those two epics (Lizard and Tarkus) were the epics later bands aspired to 're-create'. Surely later prog bands took influence (and maybe a little more) from KC, ELP, as well as Yes, Genesis, and other 70s bands, but (IMO) CttE set the bar, and few, if any, have reached it, (though some have come close)
Well, Atom Heart Mother came out in October of '70, and had been played live many times before that. And even though it's not 20 minutes, Abbey Road Medley came out in September of '69. I think all of these were influences on what came after (particularly since both Yes and Genesis were pretty heavily influenced by the Beatles.)
We can keep going back. Procol Harum's 17 minute epic In Held 'Twas In I came out in 1968.
Point was that CttE set the standard from my perspective, for constructing grand epics, not necessarily who influenced who in terms of sound and style.
Octavarium references how most of these 20 Min+ Epics follow the Suppers Ready formula, by using the phrase "This story ends where it began". I love how that song references so many of these Prog Epics or Prog Classic songs and albums.
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All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it. I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.
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All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it. I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.
This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.
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All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it. I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.
This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.
I also didn't hear Close to the Edge until many years after hearing Supper's Ready, so that could be why I don't have a similar impression of CTTE sounding like other epics. I do kind of think Yes' epic song structures tend to be so all over the place (or not really structures at all) that it's hard to say anyone follows them specifically.
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I can't add much more to the discussion but all I know is there was 2 or 3 times throughout the song that instantly brought 8VM to mind. I couldn't escape it to be honest.
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All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it. I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.
This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.
I also didn't hear Close to the Edge until many years after hearing Supper's Ready, so that could be why I don't have a similar impression of CTTE sounding like other epics. I do kind of think Yes' epic song structures tend to be so all over the place (or not really structures at all) that it's hard to say anyone follows them specifically.
Though they get compared to Yes more than anyone else, The Flower King's Stardust We Are epic is more like Supper's Ready in it's construction (evolves like a suite, as opposed to one grand piece of music)
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All I know is when I first heard Supper’s Ready I thought, “so that’s where Neal Morse got the idea for how to write epics.” The Great Nothing in particular takes a lot of cues from it. I also think the structure of A Change of Seasons is somewhat similar to Supper’s Ready.
This makes sense, since I hear tons of 70s and early 80s Genesis influence in Neal's music overall anyway, not just in his epics.
TGN is a good example of the SR's influence, but I hear a lot of ELP in Neal's music as well.
Genesis didn't really do the epic length compositions very much, though, which is partly why my argument is that Yes set the template more so than Genesis.
I also didn't hear Close to the Edge until many years after hearing Supper's Ready, so that could be why I don't have a similar impression of CTTE sounding like other epics. I do kind of think Yes' epic song structures tend to be so all over the place (or not really structures at all) that it's hard to say anyone follows them specifically.
Though they get compared to Yes more than anyone else, The Flower King's Stardust We Are epic is more like Supper's Ready in it's construction (evolves like a suite, as opposed to one grand piece of music)
Yeah, Close to the Edge has more of a prominent verse/chorus aspect (not that it follows a traditional verse/chorus format, but it has a recurring chorus at least). Stardust We Are doesn't really have that. I do hear a lot of Yes in TFK's music, but they also have some explicit nods to Genesis and King Crimson, and even a spot in SWA that sounds like the intro to Camel's Freefall.
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX
Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley
That last one is only about 16:20, according to the track times listed on Wikipedia.
-Marc.
It's also one of the most overrated things in the history of recorded music, and calling it an "epic" (or any sort of singular entity) really stretches things.
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Shine On You Crazy Diamond, Parts I through IX
Alternates:
Supper's Ready
Octavarium
Alive Again
Echoes
Tarkus
Abbey Road Medley
That last one is only about 16:20, according to the track times listed on Wikipedia.
-Marc.
It's also one of the most overrated things in the history of recorded music, and calling it an "epic" (or any sort of singular entity) really stretches things.
It's more a bunch of 2:50 songs mashed together, a la A Quick One by the Who. Personally I think it's a lovely piece, but doesn't really warrant a mention among top epics.
As to the Genesis influence discussion, I'd gather to say that a vast majority of modern prog bands can trace their sonic roots to them, and the construction of an epic to Supper's Ready as opposed to how Yes did things. Yes epics I always felt were in a class of their own, they never really seemed to me to be storytelling mechanisms, but more a path to a different spiritual plane via song and word, and in that aspect, most storytelling epics would lean more towards sounding like Supper's Ready.
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It's more a bunch of 2:50 songs mashed together, a la A Quick One by the Who. Personally I think it's a lovely piece, but doesn't really warrant a mention among top epics.
Agree. Some of the bits are good, and it would've been nice to see them developed into full songs. Others are not so good.
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Well, 8vm is my favourite song of all time, so there’s that.
I’ll chime back in later with some honorable mentions, the biggest of which (naturally) will be Light of Day, Day of Darkness.
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Well, 8vm is my favourite song of all time, so there’s that.
I’ll chime back in later with some honorable mentions, the biggest of which (naturally) will be Light of Day, Day of Darkness.
I'm surprised I've been the only mention of this song until you.
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous
And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous
And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap
I will be shocked if Tim likes this.
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous
And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap
I will be shocked if Tim likes this.
True that.. Maybe Retrospective by Silent Memorial is more his speed
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous
And go check out Milliontown by Frost* asap
I will be shocked if Tim likes this.
True that.. Maybe Retrospective by Silent Memorial is more his speed
Good call. Haven't played that album in a long long time.
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I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember. I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.
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It's more a bunch of 2:50 songs mashed together, a la A Quick One by the Who. Personally I think it's a lovely piece, but doesn't really warrant a mention among top epics.
Agreed. Side 2 of Abbey Road is a suite of short songs that all run together, not a true epic. I love it, but I would never think to call it an epic or even a single song.
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Every Transatlantic vote so far has gone to Stranger in Your Soul, but I think my choice is All of the Above.
The other contenders in my top three are probably Octavarium and The Neal Morse Band - Alive Again.
I actually went with Duel With the Devil over both, but I think I’d rank them Duel, AOTA, then Stranger. All are at the top of the class though!
Thanks for calling that out. I must have missed you because after a few mentions of Stranger only, I went looking specifically for All.
I go back and forth on how I rank Duel and Stranger relative to each other, but I lean in favor of Stranger. My Transatlantic hot take is that I put Kaleidoscope ahead of both, and behind on All and The Whirlwind.
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
OMG Tim, check out the Supper’s Ready link I posted last page.
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Supper's Ready is awesome, but I'd be shocked if Tim liked it.
I actually think that is one of the more unique prog epics, structurally. Not many others have the same structure that one has (trying to think of another 20-minute rock epic that kicks off with singing the instant the song begins).
The Gates of Delirium is another with a really unique structure. The song basically climaxes about 2/3 of the way through, instead of near or at the end, and the rest of the song is the calm aftermath.
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Supper's Ready is awesome, but I'd be shocked if Tim liked it.
I actually think that is one of the more unique prog epics, structurally. Not many others have the same structure that one has (trying to think of another 20-minute rock epic that kicks off with singing the instant the song begins).
The Gates of Delirium is another with a really unique structure. The song basically climaxes about 2/3 of the way through, instead of near or at the end, and the rest of the song is the calm aftermath.
Yes has done that with a few of their epics...Rituals and The Ancient kind of run the same gamut. Just as Gates ends with Soon, Rituals ending with Nous Somme du Soleil and Ancient ending with Leaves of Green. All of them are brilliant fucking songs, all endings are Jon Anderson at his finest. Was blessed to have seen all three live in one show.
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It just occurred to me that my favorite Yes epic (TRSOG) also *technically* starts off with singing. Although I prefer the long intro so much that I’ve discontinued listening to the original.
It’s my understanding that the band preferred the long intro, but made the decision to cut it strictly on the basis of the limitations of LP sides at the time. But I can’t remember where I heard that.
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I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember. I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.
Probably from Chad.
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I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember. I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.
Probably from Chad.
That's a negative, Ghost Rider. But I was dumb enough to send him Transatlantic (Kaleidoscope)... I was finishing last anyway, so I through all caution to the wind.
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I think I've run through the Silent Memorial once. I don't remember. I got a Frosty tune in one of my roulettes and I thought I liked it. I'll have to check which song.
Probably from Chad.
That's a negative, Ghost Rider. But I was dumb enough to send him Transatlantic (Kaleidoscope)... I was finishing last anyway, so I through all caution to the wind.
Haha, ballsy move sending him Transatlantic. :lol
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Here are some honorable mentions, which I haven't seen posted yet.
Tangerine Circus / The Conspiracy (20:18) A gem by the band where DarkLordLalinc is the writer and keyboardist. Production is a little thin, but this is absolutely fantastic. Gives me vibes of The Odyssey
Symphony X / Divine Wings of Tragedy (20:43) Has this really not been mentioned yet??
Maestrick / Lake of of Emotions (21:03) I'd be surprised if many other than RJ know this one. Maestrick is a pretty eclectic band
Jethro Tull / Thick as a Brick Part 1 (22:26) I think this is Top 5 from the >20min songs from the 70s. Personally, I'd put it 2nd to Supper's Ready
Daydream XI / The Grand Disguise (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_UVJQ0lV2E) (23:41) Here you go Tim, a song you've heard of. Anyone who mentioned ACOS as their fave, I highly encourage you to have a go at this one. So much so, I've linked it. Seriously, do yourself a favour.
Moon Safari / Lover's End Pt. III - Skelleftea Serenade (24:21) Peak Moon Safari afaic
Dream Theater / In The Presence of Enemies (25:39) :neverusethis:
Spock's Beard / Falling for Forever (27:07) I mean c'mon... all three eras in one song!
Southern Empire / The Bridge that Binds (28:22) This is filled with catchy hooks, and neo-prog greatness
Transatlantic / Kaleidoscope (31:54) the biggest TA song, and in my Top 3 by them
Shadow Gallery / First Light (34:19) Sure, it's really only a 30 minute (ish) song, but it's 30 minutes of awesomeness. RIP Mike Baker
Just in case anyone's interested, here's a Spotify Playlist (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3KL1oRjvxDaRvTi96SNY7q?si=8bc997331e864d06) of these (sans Spock's and TA, cuz we all know how much Neal hates Spotify).
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Since 'Close To The Edge' is under 20 minutes, I'll add 'Visions' by Haken to my favourites instead.
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Transatlantic / Kaleidoscope (31:54) the biggest TA song, and in my Top 3 by them
Didn't know you loved this one, too! It's in my top 3 TA songs as well, and I mentioned it in that context earlier, but I only wound up including All of the Above in my top 3 overall list.
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Since 'Close To The Edge' is under 20 minutes, I'll add 'Visions' by Haken to my favourites instead.
Good call. I do think Visions is probably one of the best 20 minute epics of the 21st century along with Stranger in Your Soul (Transatlantic), Duel with the Devil (Transatlantic), Alive Again (Neal Morse Band), Devil's Playground (Flower Kings) and Raider II (Steven Wilson).
All of the Above is technically from the 20th century, so I can't include that one in the 21st century mentions.
And as much as I like Octavarium, I can't put it on the levels of those I listed above.
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Since 'Close To The Edge' is under 20 minutes, I'll add 'Visions' by Haken to my favourites instead.
I remember when I did my DTF Best Epic thread, CttE's length was the hallmark to be classified as an epic.
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.
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I think if it took up an album side on vinyl, it should count.
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I think if it took up an album side on vinyl, it should count.
Ironically…Supper’s Ready doesn’t. Although I’ve always viewed Horizons is something of an “intro” to SR
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I think if it took up an album side on vinyl, it should count.
Ironically…Supper’s Ready doesn’t. Although I’ve always viewed Horizons is something of an “intro” to SR
I always forget about that.
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Supper's Ready is awesome, but I'd be shocked if Tim liked it.
I actually think that is one of the more unique prog epics, structurally. Not many others have the same structure that one has (trying to think of another 20-minute rock epic that kicks off with singing the instant the song begins).
The Gates of Delirium is another with a really unique structure. The song basically climaxes about 2/3 of the way through, instead of near or at the end, and the rest of the song is the calm aftermath.
TFK's "Love Is The Only Answer" from The Sum of No Evil begins with vocals right off the bat.
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So, took my car in today and knew it would be a while, so brought my headphones. Decided to check out Supper's Ready. The music at the beginning was alright, though it's not really my bag, then I remembered a big reason I don't like Genesis. The vocals. After a minute or two, I distinctly remember a line "supper is waiting for you.." I fell asleep. I am not kidding, I crashed out in the lobby of the Honda service department. Not for long, I woke up around the 18 minute mark, but I was definitely asleep for a good portion of the song.
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So, took my car in today and knew it would be a while, so brought my headphones. Decided to check out Supper's Ready. The music at the beginning was alright, though it's not really my bag, then I remembered a big reason I don't like Genesis. The vocals. After a minute or two, I distinctly remember a line "supper is waiting for you.." I fell asleep. I am not kidding, I crashed out in the lobby of the Honda service department. Not for long, I woke up around the 18 minute mark, but I was definitely asleep for a good portion of the song.
So…wait…that means you were awake for the apocalypse section…….
…..and failed to even mention it?
I don’t think we can be friends anymore.
;) :angel: :loser:
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I was a little disoriented, you know that feeling when you wake up and it takes you a minute to realize where the heck you are. And this was compounded by me having to find my phone to figure out what the heck I was listening to.
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But on top of that, you slept through the Willow Farm section. I’m not sure which is worse.
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"A flower...?"
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So, took my car in today and knew it would be a while, so brought my headphones. Decided to check out Supper's Ready. The music at the beginning was alright, though it's not really my bag, then I remembered a big reason I don't like Genesis. The vocals. After a minute or two, I distinctly remember a line "supper is waiting for you.." I fell asleep. I am not kidding, I crashed out in the lobby of the Honda service department. Not for long, I woke up around the 18 minute mark, but I was definitely asleep for a good portion of the song.
Lol, it's only 23 minutes. That second half reads like you slept through Light of Day, Darkness of Darkness or something. :lol
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Probably Stardust We Are by The Flower Kings
Also a great choice, and probably my favorite TFK epic, unless we can also count "I Am The Sun", which, when blended back together into one piece, reaches 25:23.
I know I named like a dozen in my reply, it's just really hard to narrow it down to one. :lol
-Marc.
It could honestly be a three way tie between SWA, I Am The Sun, and Garden of Dreams but SWA is the one that feels most like one cohesive song. Roine's epics during that time were just outstanding.
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Dream Theater - Octavarium
Dream Theater - A Change of Seasons
Symphony X - The Odyssey
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It could honestly be a three way tie between SWA, I Am The Sun, and Garden of Dreams but SWA is the one that feels most like one cohesive song. Roine's epics during that time were just outstanding.
True, but I don't count I Am the Sun as one song since it is two (similar to Shine On You Crazy Diamond and In the Presence of Enemies), and Garden of Dreams is similar to The Whirlwind in that it is a suite containing a bunch of songs that all work together rather than being a single song. Granted, a suite can be considered an epic, so it works for the purposes of this thread, but I tried to keep mine solely on single songs (if it wasn't a single track on its original album, I don't consider it a single song).
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It could honestly be a three way tie between SWA, I Am The Sun, and Garden of Dreams but SWA is the one that feels most like one cohesive song. Roine's epics during that time were just outstanding.
True, but I don't count I Am the Sun as one song since it is two (similar to Shine On You Crazy Diamond and In the Presence of Enemies), and Garden of Dreams is similar to The Whirlwind in that it is a suite containing a bunch of songs that all work together rather than being a single song. Granted, a suite can be considered an epic, so it works for the purposes of this thread, but I tried to keep mine solely on single songs (if it wasn't a single track on its original album, I don't consider it a single song).
Even if it was originally purposed as a single song and subsequently performed as a single song when played live? (Thinking of ITPOE specifically)
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Octavarium no question.
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It could honestly be a three way tie between SWA, I Am The Sun, and Garden of Dreams but SWA is the one that feels most like one cohesive song. Roine's epics during that time were just outstanding.
True, but I don't count I Am the Sun as one song since it is two (similar to Shine On You Crazy Diamond and In the Presence of Enemies), and Garden of Dreams is similar to The Whirlwind in that it is a suite containing a bunch of songs that all work together rather than being a single song. Granted, a suite can be considered an epic, so it works for the purposes of this thread, but I tried to keep mine solely on single songs (if it wasn't a single track on its original album, I don't consider it a single song).
Even if it was originally purposed as a single song and subsequently performed as a single song when played live? (Thinking of ITPOE specifically)
Not even then, no. If something is separated on the album in two (or more) songs, then it becomes two (or more) songs. I know some fans have this fascination with trying to combine everything they can because it's cute to make a song seem as long as possible (I have seen a few Neal Morse fans try to say that Similitude and The Great Adventure is really just one long 3-hour song :lol), but I do not subscribe to that newsletter anymore (I did at one point :P).
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It could honestly be a three way tie between SWA, I Am The Sun, and Garden of Dreams but SWA is the one that feels most like one cohesive song. Roine's epics during that time were just outstanding.
True, but I don't count I Am the Sun as one song since it is two (similar to Shine On You Crazy Diamond and In the Presence of Enemies), and Garden of Dreams is similar to The Whirlwind in that it is a suite containing a bunch of songs that all work together rather than being a single song. Granted, a suite can be considered an epic, so it works for the purposes of this thread, but I tried to keep mine solely on single songs (if it wasn't a single track on its original album, I don't consider it a single song).
Even if it was originally purposed as a single song and subsequently performed as a single song when played live? (Thinking of ITPOE specifically)
Not even then, no. If something is separated on the album in two (or more) songs, then it becomes two (or more) songs. I know some fans have this fascination with trying to combine everything they can because it's cute to make a song seem as long as possible (I have seen a few Neal Morse fans try to say that Similitude and The Great Adventure is really just one long 3-hour song :lol), but I do not subscribe to that newsletter anymore (I did at one point :P).
I would say, if a piece if written (and maybe recorded) as a single piece, it's a single song, regardless of how it is indexed or tracked on the album. What about epic songs that are indexed into several pieces on the album, even though they are all clearly part of a single piece (Spock's Beard's "The Healing Colors Of Sound", Haken's "Messiah Complex", Liquid Tension Experiment's "Three Minute Warning", the longer pieces on Marillion's FEAR album, The Tangent's "In Darkest Dreams" and "The Music That Died Alone" from thei debut)?
I personally make a distinction between SONGS and TRACKS. A song can be divided into multiple tracks, but still remain a singular piece, just indexed in a way to allow fans to jump to certain parts of the song without having to scroll through the whole song. But multiple tracks aren't necessarily always a single song, like medleys like the aforementioned (most of) Side 2 of Abbey Road, or album-length suites/song cycles (Neal Morse's ?, Porcupine Tree's The Incident). It's really down to the artists' intent, and whether or not they meant for the piece(s) to be consider a singular song or not, but I can understand that some folks can see that as a subjective issue rather than an objective one where the fans can interpret these things in their own ways.
-Marc.
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No, because almost all concept albums are written to be a single piece of music (cohesively), and taking every concept album and saying each is one song would be, well, dumb. :lol
Three Minute Warning is an improv jam, not a written song, so I view that a bit differently.
Messiah Complex and Healing Colors of Sounds are suites, meaning they are a bunch of songs that comprise a suite. Same goes for most of Side 2 of Abbey Road.
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No, because almost all concept albums are written to be a single piece of music (cohesively), and taking every concept album and saying each is one song would be, well, dumb. :lol
Three Minute Warning is an improv jam, not a written song, so I view that a bit different.
Messiah Complex and Healing Colors of Sounds are suites, meaning they are a bunch of songs that comprise a suite. Same goes for most of Side 2 of Abbey Road.
So I guess you subscribe to the idea of "death of the author", or musical artist in this context, wherein your view of their music takes precedence over the artists' intentions of their own music, that is, if they say a group of pieces comprises a song (like Mike Portnoy says "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" is a song).
Also, with regards to concept albums - I don't think they could ever be considered a single song, but can be considered a single piece of music. I think of things like multi-movement symphonies, with each movement can be a stand-alone "song" but they're all part of the larger piece as a whole. I don't think I've ever really called a whole concept *album* a song before, with perhaps the sole exception being "The Whirlwind" by Transatlantic, or where the whole album was just a single piece of music anyway (Echolyn's Mei, which isn't even indexed into movements, it's just one 49-minute track).
At some point, though, it's all semantics and a bit pointless, especially relating to this specific thread about "20+ minute epics". I think most prog fans have their own personal definitions of epics and what makes a song epic, what makes a piece of music a song rather than a medley or a suite, and we could be here all day debating which artists and pieces of music are songs or suites, not even factoring in popular consensus on what makes a piece an epic, a song, or a suite (as some might not even call "2112" by Rush a song since there are gaps between some of the movements where the band stops and starts, rather than being a cross-faded/segued collection of movements as many popular prog epics are).
-Marc.
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If something is separated on the album in two (or more) songs, then it becomes two (or more) songs.
This.
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So I guess you subscribe to the idea of "death of the author", or musical artist in this context, wherein your view of their music takes precedence over the artists' intentions of their own music, that is, if they say a group of pieces comprises a song (like Mike Portnoy says "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence" is a song).
No, I just think certain things can be open to interpretation, regardless of the intent of the artist. What if Neal Morse came out tomorrow and said, "The NMB song Not Afraid Part 2 was written to be a jazz fusion song and we consider it one." Does that then make it a jazz fusion song because he says that was their intention? Apples and oranges perhaps, but often times with art, the artist creates it and puts it out there for the public, who then decides what it is and what it means. And that applies to labels. Jon Anderson has said Yes was "adventurous rock," but the public, by and large, has decided that Yes is progressive rock, so they are considered progressive rock despite Jon Anderson insisting that their intent was not to make what is viewed as progressive rock. Does that make sense? :)
Also, with regards to concept albums - I don't think they could ever be considered a single song, but can be considered a single piece of music. I think of things like multi-movement symphonies, with each movement can be a stand-alone "song" but they're all part of the larger piece as a whole. I don't think I've ever really called a whole concept *album* a song before, with perhaps the sole exception being "The Whirlwind" by Transatlantic, or where the whole album was just a single piece of music anyway (Echolyn's Mei, which isn't even indexed into movements, it's just one 49-minute track).
Well, sure. Songs that comprise the single piece that is a concept album are likes a bunch of scenes that make up a film. We wouldn't watch a film and say the entire film is one scene, so it doesn't make sense to do it with a concept or thematic album where all of the songs are clearly defined.
At some point, though, it's all semantics and a bit pointless, especially relating to this specific thread about "20+ minute epics". I think most prog fans have their own personal definitions of epics and what makes a song epic, what makes a piece of music a song rather than a medley or a suite, and we could be here all day debating which artists and pieces of music are songs or suites, not even factoring in popular consensus on what makes a piece an epic, a song, or a suite (as some might not even call "2112" by Rush a song since there are gaps between some of the movements where the band stops and starts, rather than being a cross-faded/segued collection of movements as many popular prog epics are).
Semantics and a bit pointless, yes, but this is DTF after all. :lol
As for 2112, I view that song as having different chapters, where the stops and starts are like watching it on a TV on a main TV to where when each part ends, the TV within the TV turns off and the camera moves over to the next TV, which turns on and the next part begins. It gives it a very cinematic feel.
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Other than the DT tracks, and 2112, I've never heard anything else listed. I have heard Shine On Your Crazy Diamond.
WTF is the Abbey Road medley? Is that the Beatles album with the spaces deleted?
It refers to side 2 of abbey road, which is continuous
It's not the entirety of side 2. Here Comes the Sun and Because are not part of the medley.
Yes has done that with a few of their epics...Rituals and The Ancient kind of run the same gamut. Just as Gates ends with Soon, Rituals ending with Nous Somme du Soleil and Ancient ending with Leaves of Green. All of them are brilliant fucking songs, all endings are Jon Anderson at his finest. Was blessed to have seen all three live in one show.
Ritual (no "s").
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What if Octavarium was split into 5 tracks, would you still consider it one song? I feel like indexing is pointless as the long pieces like Garden of Dreams or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence are meant to be listened to from beginning to end, just like a 20-30 minute epic, it's just those epics are 40-60 minutes. Jams, improvisations, etc.. no matter the length, should be one track. Plus it's better for shuffling purposes that way.
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I've long ago resolve to just agree to disagree with Kev on this one, but it's worth raising the following as a thought experiment: How would some of these epics be done if it was possible to include "subdivisions" of a particular track? Like, if there was some added feature in music players that enabled "bookmarks" to be placed in certain songs, such that, say, 2112 is still a single listing on the album and plays as a single track with a 20:33 runtime, but there was also a place where you could select to go straight to 6:45, the beginning of "III. Discovery," etc. I think in that circumstance there's little question that SDOIT and The Whirlwind would be listed as single tracks, because MP has been pretty clear about the fact that he only split them up for ease of access.
Another interesting case is Coldplay's album Viva La Vida, where multiple tracks have two distinct songs inhabiting a single track. Like, a song plays, it ends, there's silence, and then a different song plays. The band regards each of these instances as being two distinct songs. But they included them on one track in each case as part of some artistic statement or something that is not very clear to me.
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The only correct answer is Devil Doll - The Sacrilege of Fatal Arms
And I'm not being completely facetious. It is a fantastic song, but a lot to take in at 79 minutes.
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It's not my favorite, but I'm surprised no mention of
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
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I love how every thread about epics devolves into what constitutes an epic. :lol
*waits for pg1607 to correct something about this post*
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It's not my favorite, but I'm surprised no mention of
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
3rd post in the thread;
DT - 8VM
DT - ACOS
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
Edge of Sanity - Crimson
Edge of Sanity - Crimson 2
Insomnium - Winters Gate
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I love how every thread about epics devolves into what constitutes an epic. :lol
As it should be!
I also find it curious that the WildRanger himself hasn't even answered his own question/
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I also find it curious that the WildRanger himself hasn't even answered his own question/
Is this your first Wildranger thread?
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Objectively, no
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Objectively, no
:neverusethis:
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I've long ago resolve to just agree to disagree with Kev on this one, but it's worth raising the following as a thought experiment: How would some of these epics be done if it was possible to include "subdivisions" of a particular track? Like, if there was some added feature in music players that enabled "bookmarks" to be placed in certain songs, such that, say, 2112 is still a single listing on the album and plays as a single track with a 20:33 runtime, but there was also a place where you could select to go straight to 6:45, the beginning of "III. Discovery," etc. I think in that circumstance there's little question that SDOIT and The Whirlwind would be listed as single tracks, because MP has been pretty clear about the fact that he only split them up for ease of access.
CD players used to do this, it was called "indexing". I'm trying to remember which disks had that, but my first CD player - a Technics - allowed me to select the indexes.
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It's not my favorite, but I'm surprised no mention of
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
3rd post in the thread;
DT - 8VM
DT - ACOS
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
Edge of Sanity - Crimson
Edge of Sanity - Crimson 2
Insomnium - Winters Gate
I must have scrolled down too fast when reading this topic :p, sorry about that.
Did I miss any others posts with it?
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Yes
Well, 8vm is my favourite song of all time, so there’s that.
I’ll chime back in later with some honorable mentions, the biggest of which (naturally) will be Light of Day, Day of Darkness.
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It's not my favorite, but I'm surprised no mention of
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
3rd post in the thread;
DT - 8VM
DT - ACOS
Green Carnation - Light of Day, Day of Darkness
Edge of Sanity - Crimson
Edge of Sanity - Crimson 2
Insomnium - Winters Gate
I must have scrolled down too fast when reading this topic :p, sorry about that.
Did I miss any others posts with it?
Haha, as Chad pointed out, yes.
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The thing about Light of Day, Day of Darkness is it's good and I like it, but it isn't amazing or anything. I think it gets way more acclaim than it's entitled to. :corn
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The thing about Light of Day, Day of Darkness is it's good and I like it, but it isn't amazing or anything. I think it gets way more acclaim than it's entitled to. :corn
Made my top 20. One of the most exceptional things I've ever heard. I can understand it's not for everyone though.
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The thing about Light of Day, Day of Darkness is it's good and I like it, but it isn't amazing or anything. I think it gets way more acclaim than it's entitled to. :corn
Made my top 20. One of the most exceptional things I've ever heard. I can understand it's not for everyone though.
Seeing them do it live is possibly the greatest concert experience I've been a part of. 15 minutes in to it, Nick shows me his phone that he purchased the CD from Amazon, he was that impressed.
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The thing about Light of Day, Day of Darkness is it's good and I like it, but it isn't amazing or anything. I think it gets way more acclaim than it's entitled to. :corn
It's been a long time since I heard it, but that was my impression.
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Need - Hegaiamas (2017). Give it a listen if you haven’t. Fantastic track
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A change of seasons
And Empire of the clouds. With a 2 minutes silent outro ;)
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The thing about Light of Day, Day of Darkness is it's good and I like it, but it isn't amazing or anything. I think it gets way more acclaim than it's entitled to. :corn
Made my top 20. One of the most exceptional things I've ever heard. I can understand it's not for everyone though.
Seeing them do it live is possibly the greatest concert experience I've been a part of. 15 minutes in to it, Nick shows me his phone that he purchased the CD from Amazon, he was that impressed.
Did they play the whole thing? As I know they've played just the first 20 odd minutes before.
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Not sure how I missed this thread before now. :dunno: Anyway...
When I think of mega-epics, my mind goes right to Dream Theater and Transatlantic. Those two bands have easily put out my favorites. Picking my top from each, my favorite 20+ minute epics of all time would be:
1. Six Degrees
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Octavarium
4. The Whirlwind
5. Stranger in Your Soul
6. All of the Above
No other band I listen to has put out one that would beat any of these. And even though Neal Morse has put out quite a few and is one of my favorite artists, I struggle to remember any of his songs that are in the 20+ minute range.
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The thing about Light of Day, Day of Darkness is it's good and I like it, but it isn't amazing or anything. I think it gets way more acclaim than it's entitled to. :corn
Made my top 20. One of the most exceptional things I've ever heard. I can understand it's not for everyone though.
Seeing them do it live is possibly the greatest concert experience I've been a part of. 15 minutes in to it, Nick shows me his phone that he purchased the CD from Amazon, he was that impressed.
Did they play the whole thing? As I know they've played just the first 20 odd minutes before.
Yup... the whole 60 minutes.