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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on May 26, 2021, 06:34:46 AM
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After The Beatles Garth Brooks is the second best selling music artist in the USA, where he has sold 150 million albums. So it means he was enormously commercially successful. I don't mind him and I haven't even heard more than three or four of his songs, but this is very surprising to me.
How and why? Your opinions?
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He probably sold more records than anyone else beside the Beatles.
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He probably sold more records than anyone else beside the Beatles.
That applies only to (North) America. The rest of the world don't even have a clue who Garth Brook is.
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Because many people like him?
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He's got a lot of friends in low places.
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Because many people like him?
Bingo.
No further discussion needed.
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He's pretty much responsible for the blowup of the country crossover scene, which is huge today. He made it relatable to people that didn't like country music. With Garth Brooks, suddenly suburbia, and all their money, listened to country music.
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Because many people like him?
Yep, I suppose that's true. But to be the second best selling music artist while there is a ton of other popular music artists?
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He's pretty much responsible for the blowup of the country crossover scene, which is huge today. He made it relatable to people that didn't like country music. With Garth Brooks, suddenly suburbia, and all their money, listened to country music.
You mean chicks. :lol
Because many people like him?
Yep, I suppose that's true. But to be the second best selling music artist while there is a ton of other popular music artists?
Country music is absolutely huge. For someone like me who doesn't like it, it's hard to understand why it's so popular because we don't follow any aspect of it.
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I don’t think people realize how popular country music is now and was especially in the 90s. My family took a good number of cross country trips growing up, and there were almost always more country radio stations in any given place than rock stations. At least in “flyover country” as it were. Then you get someone like Brooks who was a great entertainer with a huge stadium show, and he was able to pull in a chunk of non-country fans too I imagine.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
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Upper East Coast representing! :metal
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There's a Netflix documentary on Garth. They even show highlights of the tour in the UK and it was packed. That's how big Garth is. He is also big in other parts of the world.
https://www.netflix.com/title/81283911
Check it out. It's an interesting watch, that's for sure.
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Because many people like him?
Yep, I suppose that's true. But to be the second best selling music artist while there is a ton of other popular music artists?
Yeah, I mean, isn't the answer painfully obvious? Whether or not 'you' like it, get it, understand it, or any other iteration of the like, the fact remains that the numbers don't lie—Garth Brooks was a MAJOR crossover artist who's appeal is reflected in his album sales.
I know a handful of songs (am not a country fan by a long shot), but as someone who ran a record store for a decade, I can assure you that Country and Hip Hop dwarf Rock/Metal in every measurable way. Makes total sense to me.
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He's got a lot of friends in low places.
This is the only response.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
So country music is much more popular in RURAL America than URBAN America? Rock music is much more popular in urban America than rural?
It makes sense.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
So country music is much more popular in RURAL America than URBAN America? Rock music is much more popular in urban America than rural?
It makes sense.
What? No. Country is popular in both rural and urban America. Are you under the impression that everything in America outside of the North East and California is rural?
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
So country music is much more popular in RURAL America than URBAN America? Rock music is much more popular in urban America than rural?
It makes sense.
What? No. Country is popular in both rural and urban America.
Is country more popular than rock in urban America? I doubt it.
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Never heard of Garth Brook.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
So country music is much more popular in RURAL America than URBAN America? Rock music is much more popular in urban America than rural?
It makes sense.
What? No. Country is popular in both rural and urban America.
Is country more popular than rock in urban America? I doubt it.
You can doubt it all you want, doesn't mean is not true.
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He probably sold more records than anyone else beside the Beatles.
That applies only to (North) America. The rest of the world don't even have a clue who Garth Brook is.
Not true; he sold out multiple nights in Dublin in a matter of hours. The shows were later cancelled because of zoning board issues, but still. If memory serves, he's big in Australia as well.
Any regional "lack" of popularity is as much a function of the genre - American country music - than it is him. I have ZERO doubt that if he wanted to, he could be a massive rock star, metal star, etc.
Having said that, SOME of his sales success is marketing. He's played the game magnificently. His first box set was his first six studio records repackaged with one bonus track each; each sale of that box set counted as SIX records, AND counted as another for each of the individual records. His second box set was a similar package, starting with his seventh album ("Sevens") and the double live set. Then he put a box set with I think four CDs of cover tunes - rock, country, etc. - modeled after his Vegas residency, and repackaged in his greatest hits CD. So every sale of that box counted as 7 disks (there was a DVD too) AND his greatest hits rang up numbers as well.
Notwithstanding that gamesmanship, I love the guy. He's more or less sincere, he's very talented (I've seen him live twice and both times were killer), and he makes music that people like. Not sure there's more we can ask from our artists.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
So country music is much more popular in RURAL America than URBAN America? Rock music is much more popular in urban America than rural?
It makes sense.
What? No. Country is popular in both rural and urban America.
Is country more popular than rock in urban America? I doubt it.
Depends which city. Nashville? Definitely. New York? Maybe not. Not sure why it matters. Are you competing with country for popularity?
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
Not sure location has much to do with anything besides this being a prog community so we obviously aren't going to generally be a group of country fans.
Here in NJ, the country concerts are the biggest sellers. It's extremely popular.
And that's the answer to the OP, country music is extremely popular.
I actually want to check out one of the big country shows one day just to experience it
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Upper East Coast representing! :metal
BOOM!
Country is massive. I go to a lot of shows, generally. Most of the rock/metal/prog shows I see now are in theaters - 3 to 5,000 - or clubs - 750 to 3,000. I go to a number of shows with my wife, and almost all of them are country, and all of them are at the 10k arenas and amphitheaters. I've seen Luke Bryan and Keith Urban individually headline the same venue as Kiss and Maiden, and arguably there were more people at the former. It's also a different crowd; Maiden was 80% men, and the women that were there were with the men. The Keith Urban shows I've been at (I've seen him four times) are roughly 50-50, and are couples, families, girl's nights out, guy's nights out, etc. My wife goes to very few shows on her own, but she has a friend that... let's say knows someone in the Patriots organization, and gets tickets to the stadium shows up at Gillette; and every year she goes to see Keith Urban and/or Kenny Chesney in the stadium.
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I actually want to check out one of the big country shows one day just to experience it
Try to check out Zac Brown Band. Saw them in Irvine, CA in 2019. They are great. They have like four guys harmonizing at once at times. They also do classic rock covers as well and do them well.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
Not sure location has much to do with anything besides this being a prog community so we obviously aren't going to generally be a group of country fans.
Here in NJ, the country concerts are the biggest sellers. It's extremely popular.
And that's the answer to the OP, country music is extremely popular.
I actually want to check out one of the big country shows one day just to experience it
That’s fair. I guess I was equating location to culture.
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He puts on a hell of a show. His show is a straight up rock show.
He has a ton of charisma, and he has "it" that allows him the ability to choose and write songs with great hooks and lyrics that many people find relatable. And then when you see him live, he fucking brings it and makes everyone in the arena feel like his special guest.
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Yea. This forum likely focuses on the upper east coast and west coast of America. But most of America isn’t super represented here or in the prog community and a lot of them love country.
Not sure location has much to do with anything besides this being a prog community so we obviously aren't going to generally be a group of country fans.
Here in NJ, the country concerts are the biggest sellers. It's extremely popular.
And that's the answer to the OP, country music is extremely popular.
I actually want to check out one of the big country shows one day just to experience it
Go see Keith Urban; I'm not guaranteeing you'll love it, but it's got everything one might want in a live show: decent songs, he's a hell of a guitar player, his band is good, he's got enough of a stage show to be interesting (it's not Maiden, though) and he does a little thing in the middle where he will talk to the crowd, read the signs, and sometimes pull someone up on stage. It's a fun show, and if you're looking for a night out with your partner, you could do a LOT worse.
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I actually want to check out one of the big country shows one day just to experience it
Try to check out Zac Brown Band. Saw them in Irvine, CA in 2019. They are great. They have like four guys harmonizing at once at times. They also do classic rock covers as well and do them well.
Yep, I like the Zac Brown Band.
I would LOVE to see Chris Stapleton live.
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My opinions: Don't have any; don't listen to country music, but I can easily answer your "how" and "why" questions:
HOW: He released music.
WHY: Lots of people like his music.
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He puts on a hell of a show. His show is a straight up rock show.
He has a ton of charisma, and he has "it" that allows him the ability to choose and write songs with great hooks and lyrics that many people find relatable. And then when you see him live, he fucking brings it and makes everyone in the arena feel like his special guest.
Gotta repeat this. He's the real deal live.
I saw him in Boston at the Fleet Center (TD Garden, now), and at one point, he sat down on the edge of the stage and played... American Band by Grand Funk, and Against The Wind by Bob Seger, just him and an acoustic. The capacity of that building for a concert is somewhere north of 19,000 and you could hear a PIN drop. He kept 20k people rapt with just his voice and a guitar. Your mileage may vary, but that to me is a star.
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I would LOVE to see Chris Stapleton live.
Interesting; I'm a huge country fan, but he does nothing for me. I feel like I've heard it all before on the first four Allman Brothers records. Plus his "Maggie's Song" is basically a Faces/Rod Stewart The Band/"Cripple Creek" rehash.
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This summer coming to the amphitheater near my house...
Luke Bryan
Zac Brown Band
Jason Aldean
Thomas Rhett
Chris Stapleton
Now that I look, it's like if there was one genre that had the most concerts at this venue (the biggest I believe in capacity in NJ) are country shows.
Maybe I'll take up some of your suggestions...
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This summer coming to the amphitheater near my house...
Luke Bryan
Zac Brown Band
Jason Aldean
Thomas Rhett
Chris Stapleton
Now that I look, it's like if there was one genre that had the most concerts at this venue (the biggest I believe in capacity in NJ) are country shows.
Maybe I'll take up some of your suggestions...
Of that list, I'd go see Jason Aldean and Luke Bryan (that guy can sing, and the crowd will be to your liking). I think generally, you'd get support for Zac Brown and Chris Stapleton. Thomas Rhett is a bit too "bro-country" or "country pop" for me.
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This summer coming to the amphitheater near my house...
Luke Bryan
Zac Brown Band
Jason Aldean
Thomas Rhett
Chris Stapleton
Now that I look, it's like if there was one genre that had the most concerts at this venue (the biggest I believe in capacity in NJ) are country shows.
Maybe I'll take up some of your suggestions...
Of that list, I'd go see Jason Aldean and Luke Bryan (that guy can sing, and the crowd will be to your liking). I think generally, you'd get support for Zac Brown and Chris Stapleton. Thomas Rhett is a bit too "bro-country" or "country pop" for me.
Looking further... Luke Bryan is already almost sold out and the lawn tickets are $95 after fees. This is my hold back, as prices are just a bit high for something that's more of an experiment. But also shows just how extremely popular this genre is.
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I had to suffer hearing Luke Bryan songs twice an hour during work for the last 5 years. Just awful.
Thankfully our store got a new music service and I haven’t heard one country song since, plus it plays popular 80’s hard rock once in a while so it’s been a win-win.
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I would LOVE to see Chris Stapleton live.
Interesting; I'm a huge country fan, but he does nothing for me. I feel like I've heard it all before on the first four Allman Brothers records. Plus his "Maggie's Song" is basically a Faces/Rod Stewart rehash.
Allman Brothers?
???
Stapleton's music sounds literally nothing like the Allman Brothers.
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Never heard of Garth Brook.
See Chris Gaine. :neverusethis:
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Personally, I don't have any desire to see any of those (or any other country artist). But that is simply a reflection of my tastes, and not on the artist or the quality of their music or shows. I have been to a few country concerts before, and had no problem enjoying myself and enjoying the music (even if, at best, I casually recognized maybe a couple of songs).
But as to Garth specifically, he's a great artist and performer. I actually have a few of his albums. And to anyone who likes a good show and can even mildly tolerate that genre of music, I would HIGHLY recommend watching that Central Park show he did in the '90s. That is a fantastic show by any standards.
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Who?
Ah, I asked Google and found out.
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Who?
Ah, I asked Google and found out.
I suppose kids today might not know. I feel like he hasn’t been very active in the last 20 years or so.
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Who?
Ah, I asked Google and found out.
I suppose kids today might not know. I feel like he hasn’t been very active in the last 20 years or so.
I'm 37 .... I've never heard of him, but I'm not from the US. It must be because of that.
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I can't believe we're on the second page and no one has said the obvious correct answer: His music is objectively superior to all other music except the Beatles.
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Who?
Ah, I asked Google and found out.
I suppose kids today might not know. I feel like he hasn’t been very active in the last 20 years or so.
I'm 37 .... I've never heard of him, but I'm not from the US. It must be because of that.
Ah yeah, we're about the same age, but I'm sure there are parts of the world where he wasn't so big.
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How?
He records and sells music that a lot of Americans like.
Why?
Because after the Beatles he's the second best-selling artist in the US
Stay tuned for Wildranger's upcoming polls:
Should I walk to school or bring my lunch?
Isn't cereal really just soup?
How many chickens would it take to kill an elephant?
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Did you know coffee is actually hot water with coffee flavour?
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You can't seriously consider it cereal if it doesn't have milk.
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Did you know coffee is actually hot water with coffee flavour?
And the process is called percolation. :)
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I feel like he hasn’t been very active in the last 20 years or so.
His first album came out in 1989. He was then the biggest thing since sliced bread until 2000, when he announced his retirement (he had already sold 100 million albums by that point, and made approximately eleventy jillion dollars). He retired to spend time with his kids while they were growing up.
He came back to the business in 2014 with a new album and started touring again.
In those intervening years, he raised his kids, and put out occasional boxed set collections, and made sporadic performances, including an occasional residence in Vegas (solo acoustic shows). He was still pretty big while "retired".
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I would LOVE to see Chris Stapleton live.
Interesting; I'm a huge country fan, but he does nothing for me. I feel like I've heard it all before on the first four Allman Brothers records. Plus his "Maggie's Song" is basically a Faces/Rod Stewart rehash.
Allman Brothers?
???
Stapleton's music sounds literally nothing like the Allman Brothers.
The music doesn't but he does. To me.
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Did you know coffee is actually hot water with coffee flavour?
I had a short discussion with my 17-year old daughter about whether she might ever drink beer at some point (we've given her sips of various forms of alcohol over the years). Her response was that she really didn't foresee herself wanting to drink "bread water."
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I feel like he hasn’t been very active in the last 20 years or so.
His first album came out in 1989. He was then the biggest thing since sliced bread until 2000, when he announced his retirement (he had already sold 100 million albums by that point, and made approximately eleventy jillion dollars). He retired to spend time with his kids while they were growing up.
He came back to the business in 2014 with a new album and started touring again.
In those intervening years, he raised his kids, and put out occasional boxed set collections, and made sporadic performances, including an occasional residence in Vegas (solo acoustic shows). He was still pretty big while "retired".
no mention of the whole Chris Gaines thing? that was a trip, lol
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Did you know coffee is actually hot water with coffee flavour?
I had a short discussion with my 17-year old daughter about whether she might ever drink beer at some point (we've given her sips of various forms of alcohol over the years). Her response was that she really didn't foresee herself wanting to drink "bread water."
I had that conversation with my kid at almost the same age. Fast forward three years later, and she's got a line item in her monthly budget, for "alcohol".
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Did you know coffee is actually hot water with coffee flavour?
I had a short discussion with my 17-year old daughter about whether she might ever drink beer at some point (we've given her sips of various forms of alcohol over the years). Her response was that she really didn't foresee herself wanting to drink "bread water."
I had that conversation with my kid at almost the same age. Fast forward three years later, and she's got a line item in her monthly budget, for "alcohol".
She was talking about beer specifically. She did not foreclose the possibility of becoming a bourbon connoisseur or something like that. Nor am I foreclosing the possibility that she'll develop a taste for beer once she gets to college. :biggrin:
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I can't believe we're on the second page and no one has said the obvious correct answer: His music is objectively superior to all other music except the Beatles.
I know you're kidding here. Objectively speaking, he is far from the second greatest music artist of all time. ;D
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I can't believe we're on the second page and no one has said the obvious correct answer: His music is objectively superior to all other music except the Beatles.
I know you're kidding here. Objectively speaking, he is far from the second greatest music artist of all time. ;D
WildRanger, if we can agree, for arguments sake, that The Beatles are the greatest musical artists of all time (as you don't appear to be arguing or disbelieving of that point), then whether you like it or not, based on sales Garth Brooks must be considered as one of the greatest music artists of all time.
If he has sold that well he must be doing something right, that appeals to literally millions of people. That makes him a great musical artist. I can't really say if I am a fan personally, as I couldn't name one of his songs. I know you like to think being a fan of bands who may be technically more accomplished at their chosen instrument, or play complex songs that a lot of musicians couldn't play makes, you, them or anyone else who likes them superior to music you deem as inferior. That however is just untrue.
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I'm aware of the name, but couldn't name a song or pick him out of a line-up (I had a look, he's like a fatter shetson wearing Woody Harrelson).
Checked his Discography and he's only had one top ten album in the UK (and that fell out the top 40 next week) and his highest single charted at 38.
I would say Country music doesn't do well in the UK - but in the same peak period for Brooks, Shania Twain was all over UK radio and had a huge coupling of selling albums.
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I can't believe we're on the second page and no one has said the obvious correct answer: His music is objectively superior to all other music except the Beatles.
I know you're kidding here. Objectively speaking, he is far from the second greatest music artist of all time. ;D
WildRanger, if we can agree, for arguments sake, that The Beatles are the greatest musical artists of all time (as you don't appear to be arguing or disbelieving of that point), then whether you like it or not, based on sales Garth Brooks must be considered as one of the greatest music artists of all time.
If he has sold that well he must be doing something right, that appeals to literally millions of people. That makes him a great musical artist. I can't really say if I am a fan personally, as I couldn't name one of his songs. I know you like to think being a fan of bands who may be technically more accomplished at their chosen instrument, or play complex songs that a lot of musicians couldn't play makes, you, them or anyone else who likes them superior to music you deem as inferior. That however is just untrue.
I'm not a big Beatles guy by any means and I rarely listen their stuff, but they, as a band, tick many boxes to be a serious contender for "the greatest band of all time". Garth Brooks tick much less boxes to be among "the greats". I can't deny that he might be doing something right because the masses of people dig his music, but commercial success is not a main indicator for greatness. For example, both Johnny Cash and Brooks belong to country category but the fact that Brooks has sold a way more records than Cash does not make him a greater artist than Cash. Cash will always be generally held in much higher regard than Brooks, despite being commercially much less successful.
And I never said that only technically complex music has a big artistic merit. Most Beatles or Stones songs are not complex at all but they have a big artistic merit.
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To me, the biggest strike against Garth Brooks is his lack of songwriting. A quick scan of the writing credits on this albums shows that there are a lot of songs on his albums that he did not write (or co-write), and he had no part of writing Friends in Low Places, which has to be by far his most well known song. Yes, he was a writer on a lot of his songs, but he was not a writer on many as well. To me, being a songwriter is very important when discussing artistic merit.
All that aside, there is denying how massive he was and is. And his widespread influence is undeniable.
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No offense, I'm skeptical of any "objectively great" discussion. But let's assume I agree with you on that, then I still think you're under-rating the importance of Garth Brooks. While country had a little bit of a surge in the late 70's, with Dolly Parton, Glen Campbell and Kenny Rogers having cross-over hits, by the early to mid 80's, country was a dead issue beyond the core fanbase. Garth's debut was in '89, and even though Shania Twain gets mentioned here, her first album with Mutt Lange wasn't until 1995, and by then, Garth had five or six records out (he was doing basically an album a year for the first few years).
He was touring arenas and stadiums on his own when most country artists were struggling to fill 3,000 seat theaters as part of a package tour or as opening acts. I don't know about where you live, but here, in the States, the "Country Music Awards" is a prime time, major network show, rivalling the Oscars and the Grammys.
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To me, the biggest strike against Garth Brooks is his lack of songwriting. A quick scan of the writing credits on this albums shows that there are a lot of songs on his albums that he did not write (or co-write), and he had no part of writing Friends in Low Places, which has to be by far his most well known song. Yes, he was a writer on a lot of his songs, but he was not a writer on many as well. To me, being a songwriter is very important when discussing artistic merit.
All that aside, there is denying how massive he was and is. And his widespread influence is undeniable.
I’m not sure how many popular country artists write their own songs, it’s mostly writers looking for the the right artist to sing their songs.
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To me, the biggest strike against Garth Brooks is his lack of songwriting. A quick scan of the writing credits on this albums shows that there are a lot of songs on his albums that he did not write (or co-write), and he had no part of writing Friends in Low Places, which has to be by far his most well known song. Yes, he was a writer on a lot of his songs, but he was not a writer on many as well. To me, being a songwriter is very important when discussing artistic merit.
All that aside, there is denying how massive he was and is. And his widespread influence is undeniable.
I’m not sure how many popular country artists write their own songs, it’s mostly writers looking for the the right artist to sing their songs.
It's not an unfair criticism, necessarily, but I'm not sure it's determinative. He DOES write; on average, if memory serves, he gets a writing credit on about half to two thirds of the songs on each album, and he has co-written the majority of his hits. Also, he is in the Songwriters Hall Of Fame, and has received the Gershwin Award (along side McCartney, Simon, Bacharach, King; the youngest to do so).
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To me, the biggest strike against Garth Brooks is his lack of songwriting. A quick scan of the writing credits on this albums shows that there are a lot of songs on his albums that he did not write (or co-write), and he had no part of writing Friends in Low Places, which has to be by far his most well known song. Yes, he was a writer on a lot of his songs, but he was not a writer on many as well. To me, being a songwriter is very important when discussing artistic merit.
All that aside, there is denying how massive he was and is. And his widespread influence is undeniable.
I’m not sure how many popular country artists write their own songs, it’s mostly writers looking for the the right artist to sing their songs.
It's not an unfair criticism, necessarily, but I'm not sure it's determinative. He DOES write; on average, if memory serves, he gets a writing credit on about half to two thirds of the songs on each album, and he has co-written the majority of his hits. Also, he is in the Songwriters Hall Of Fame, and has received the Gershwin Award (along side McCartney, Simon, Bacharach, King; the youngest to do so).
To be fair, I did point out that he does write a lot of his songs; I just pointed out as well that he also had no hand in writing a lot of songs on his records. I suspect his percentage of songs he has written is far higher than that of most country artists of the last 30 years, though.
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I suspect his percentage of songs he has written is far higher than that of most country artists of the last 30 years, though.
I would agree with this.
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I suspect his percentage of songs he has written is far higher than that of most country artists of the last 30 years, though.
I would agree with this.
Me too. Blake Shelton, for example, writes few if any of his songs.
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I'm sure all the people who bought Garth Brooks' albums ran right home to figure out how many of the songs he wrote and how many he didn't and they made a note in their secret list of how many songs each artist has writing credits for.
A few other random artists who didn't write a lot of their songs:
Elvis Presley
Elton John
Frank Sinatra
Diana Ross
Whitney Houston
Marvin Gaye
Nina Simone
Rihanna
pfft, buncha scrubs ::)
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I can't believe we're on the second page and no one has said the obvious correct answer: His music is objectively superior to all other music except the Beatles.
I know you're kidding here. Objectively speaking, he is far from the second greatest music artist of all time. ;D
WildRanger, if we can agree, for arguments sake, that The Beatles are the greatest musical artists of all time (as you don't appear to be arguing or disbelieving of that point), then whether you like it or not, based on sales Garth Brooks must be considered as one of the greatest music artists of all time.
Here we go again...
When it comes to this sort of thing, there's no such thing as objectivity (unless you want to compare album sales, concert revenue, etc.).
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I'm sure all the people who bought Garth Brooks' albums ran right home to figure out how many of the songs he wrote and how many he didn't and they made a note in their secret list of how many songs each artist has writing credits for.
HAHA.
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The man's threads always grow to multiple pages even though it's the same template every time. He sucks us all in to the objectivity condundrum. We're suckers.
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The man's threads always grow to multiple pages even though it's the same template every time. He sucks us all in to the objectivity condundrum. We're suckers.
He’s a DT Forum hit maker. He knows what sells.
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The man's threads always grow to multiple pages even though it's the same template every time. He sucks us all in to the objectivity condundrum. We're suckers.
He’s a DT Forum hit maker. He knows what sells.
He knows the audience and offers what is needed.
:rollin
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To be fair, the objectivity thing is perhaps partly my fault this time since I brought it up as a joke response. :lol
While country had a little bit of a surge in the late 70's, with Dolly Parton, Glen Campbell and Kenny Rogers having cross-over hits, by the early to mid 80's, country was a dead issue beyond the core fanbase. Garth's debut was in '89, and even though Shania Twain gets mentioned here, her first album with Mutt Lange wasn't until 1995, and by then, Garth had five or six records out (he was doing basically an album a year for the first few years).
I'm not that well-versed in the history of country music, but I would think George Strait merits a mention here. He's also been absurdly successful in terms of record sales (Wikipedia has him as the third or fourth best-selling country artist, depending on whether you count Taylor Swift), and I think he was a significant influence for Brooks, although ultimately Brooks moved into more of a crossover style while Strait remained very traditionalist.
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To be fair, the objectivity thing is perhaps partly my fault this time since I brought it up as a joke response. :lol
While country had a little bit of a surge in the late 70's, with Dolly Parton, Glen Campbell and Kenny Rogers having cross-over hits, by the early to mid 80's, country was a dead issue beyond the core fanbase. Garth's debut was in '89, and even though Shania Twain gets mentioned here, her first album with Mutt Lange wasn't until 1995, and by then, Garth had five or six records out (he was doing basically an album a year for the first few years).
I'm not that well-versed in the history of country music, but I would think George Strait merits a mention here. He's also been absurdly successful in terms of record sales (Wikipedia has him as the third or fourth best-selling country artist, depending on whether you count Taylor Swift), and I think he was a significant influence for Brooks, although ultimately Brooks moved into more of a crossover style while Strait remained very traditionalist.
Brooks has been pretty outspoken that Strait was the template for his career. He's as much an influence on Brooks as Rush was on DT, for example.
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It is interesting to me that I really have never heard of one of the bestselling artists in the US.
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To be fair, the objectivity thing is perhaps partly my fault this time since I brought it up as a joke response. :lol
While country had a little bit of a surge in the late 70's, with Dolly Parton, Glen Campbell and Kenny Rogers having cross-over hits, by the early to mid 80's, country was a dead issue beyond the core fanbase. Garth's debut was in '89, and even though Shania Twain gets mentioned here, her first album with Mutt Lange wasn't until 1995, and by then, Garth had five or six records out (he was doing basically an album a year for the first few years).
I'm not that well-versed in the history of country music, but I would think George Strait merits a mention here. He's also been absurdly successful in terms of record sales (Wikipedia has him as the third or fourth best-selling country artist, depending on whether you count Taylor Swift), and I think he was a significant influence for Brooks, although ultimately Brooks moved into more of a crossover style while Strait remained very traditionalist.
Brooks has been pretty outspoken that Strait was the template for his career. He's as much an influence on Brooks as Rush was on DT, for example.
I should listen to more George Strait. I heard one of his songs, Somewhere Down in Texas, when WWE played it in a video package at the end of one of Stone Cold Steve Austin's documentary and I liked the vibe in it.
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The Beatles have never clicked for me. Of all the songs I've heard, and admittedly, I haven't heard a lot, I'd rank them from meh to so boring I have to change the station. Other bands from that era like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are far superior.
I couldn't name or even recognise a Garth Brooks song. Taylor Swift, Shania Twain, and Carrie Underwood are the only country related music I can tolerate.
But what I'd really like to know is does WildRanger write his own threads?
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I heard a rumor that Jaden Smith writes some of them. Don't know if it's true.
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The Beatles have never clicked for me. Of all the songs I've heard, and admittedly, I haven't heard a lot, I'd rank them from meh to so boring I have to change the station. Other bands from that era like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are far superior.
I couldn't name or even recognise a Garth Brooks song. Taylor Swift, Shania Twain, and Carrie Underwood are the only country related music I can tolerate.
But what I'd really like to know is does WildRanger write his own threads?
If this is the de facto country thread, I’m just here to say that the best country-related singer is Alison Krauss hands down.
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It is interesting to me that I really have never heard of one of the bestselling artists in the US.
I have lived in the US my whole life and I haven't heard of some of our most best selling artists.
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But what I'd really like to know is does WildRanger write his own threads?
I heard that they are written by bosk1, because he wants engagement and participation in the DTF.
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You would literally have to be living in a cave to have not heard “Friends in Low Places”. I DESPISE country. Try to avoid it at all costs. But that song is about as prevalent as a Michael Jackson single. Every speaker in the known world played that song at one point.
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I live in a cave in the middle of a rainforest in South America.
I don't even know how I get an internet signal here. :biggrin:
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It is interesting to me that I really have never heard of one of the bestselling artists in the US.
I have lived in the US my whole life and I haven't heard of some of our most best selling artists.
I am absolutely positive that I have never heard more than about 30 seconds of any Garth Brooks song. I'm about as interested in country music as I am in getting an enema with rubbing alcohol
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Not at all intended to change anyone's mind; we like what we like. But the thing about country is that it is like any other genre. "Rock"? Sabbath isn't really like Rush isn't really like Marillion isn't really like Van Halen. There are similarities, but stark differences too. Johnny Cash and Kris Kristofferson aren't at all like Garth Brooks, who isn't all that much like Thomas Rhett or Sam Hunt. And Roy Clark and Glen Campbell aren't like any of those.
There is some STRONG musicianship on some of those records, both in the name artists - Brad Paisley, Keith Urban, Vince Gill - and in the backup players - Reggie Young, for one. There is also some excellent songwriting. I would be stunned if James Hetfield didn't cop to being influenced by Waylon Jennings (I think he even appeared on a Waymore tribute album) and I'd be speechless if Myles Kennedy didn't acknowledge Kris Kristofferson as an influence.
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Agreed. When I say I hate country, I am always referring to the high profile cookie cutter twang-pop that passes for country nowadays. There is some country I like, but you’d be hard pressed to find a country fan that’s ever heard of them.
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A favorite local cover band often did Friends in Low Places. I loved it, yet had to ask my buddy what the heck song it was. They specialized in classic rock and it was one of a couple songs I saw them play over the course of a decade that wasn't familiar to me. Once I knew what it was, I found the original on the internet. I found it so underwhelming I couldn't listen to the whole thing. But what that cover band played it, I marked out hard.
That is the only country song I can name off the top of my head.
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I seriously need to make an effort to listen to more George Strait. I don't mind listening to country if I can find something in the genre I can enjoy like EDM or JPop/JRock. This guy set the record of largest indoor concert in North America, having 104k people in Dallas show up to see this guy's headlining show (here's something that WildRanger can have his head explode about).
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You would literally have to be living in a cave to have not heard “Friends in Low Places”. I DESPISE country. Try to avoid it at all costs. But that song is about as prevalent as a Michael Jackson single. Every speaker in the known world played that song at one point.
If I've heard it, I don't remember it. I wouldn't say I "hate" country, but I don't like what I've heard, so I don't listen to it. I don't have friends who like country music, and even if I did, I don't have occasion to listen to what they listen to. Is it in a TV commercial? If so, I might have heard it. Otherwise, the only way I'd have heard it would have been if it were on the speaker at a restaurant where I wouldn't have paid attention.
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Truthfully the only Garth Brooks songs I can come up with off the top of my head are Friends in Low Places and The Thunder Rolls, but I don’t really listen to country music either. I do have a brother who was a big fan at one point. He was everywhere for a period in the 90s, but it’s not that hard to avoid him (like I’ve avoided lots of popular artists over the years).
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I can handle some old school Johnny Cash and Kenny Rogers, and I will admit to liking a handful of Shania Twain songs, but I otherwise have little to no interest in country music. Even with as much of a fan as I am now of Taylor Swift, I still pretty much avoid most of the country stuff like it's got a scorching case of herpes, although there are a few I dig.
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I can handle some old school Johnny Cash and Kenny Rogers, and I will admit to liking a handful of Shania Twain songs, but I otherwise have little to no interest in country music. Even with as much of a fan as I am now of Taylor Swift, I still pretty much avoid most of the country stuff like it's got a scorching case of herpes, although there are a few I dig.
I liked a couple of her big songs in the late '90s, but I'm not sure how much of that had to do with the songs and how much had to do with how ridiculously sexy she was in those videos.
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You would literally have to be living in a cave to have not heard “Friends in Low Places”. I DESPISE country. Try to avoid it at all costs. But that song is about as prevalent as a Michael Jackson single. Every speaker in the known world played that song at one point.
North America is not the world... I just looked up the song and I've literally never heard it before.
I do remember them having a vague pop at pushing Garth Brooks in the UK around the mid-90s and he did ok but looking up his "World" tours from around that time the very next tour he stuck to the US, Canada... and Ireland.
I'm trying to think of how many male country singers have crossed over into the global mainstream and it's a struggle. I suspect this is in part because female country singers don't have the same stigma attached to their image that's the product of a long history of negative media stereotyping of the stock Texan.
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Can't hum a single note of his music, Chris Gaines on the other hand...
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I will admit to liking a handful of Shania Twain songs
I liked a couple of her big songs in the late '90s, but I'm not sure how much of that had to do with the songs and how much had to do with how ridiculously sexy she was in those videos.
Haha, that sure didn't hurt, but I think a few have held up well as good pop songs (and I have long said I am a sucker for a good pop song, probably as a result of growing up watching MTV in the 80's).
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States)
It's really surprising to see that George Strait (another country guy) has sold more records than Bruce Springsteen's in the US.
Is he really bigger than Springsteen? Do his live shows have a bigger attendance than Springsteen? I doubt it.
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There is some STRONG musicianship on some of those records, both in the name artists - Brad Paisley, Keith Urban, Vince Gill - and in the backup players - Reggie Young, for one. There is also some excellent songwriting.
I've heard a few Urban songs on Youtube (maybe 6 or 7) and they're formulaic, generic and samey modern country-pop stuff. I didn't see any diversity.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States)
It's really surprising to see that George Strait (another country guy) has sold more records than Bruce Springsteen's in the US.
Is he really bigger than Springsteen? Do his live shows have a bigger attendance than Springsteen? I doubt it.
WildRanger, Anguyen literally pointed out just a few posts above this that George Strait had the most-attended indoor concert in North American history, with 104,793 people in attendance. This was also the largest single-ticket show in North American history. You can literally look these things up. You can look up Springsteen's most recent tour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_River_Tour_(2016)#Tour_dates) and see that he wasn't coming close to 100,000 for a single show (the six-figure numbers in that chart are cumulative numbers for multiple dates).
It's not directly comparable seeing as that 104,793 show was the last stop on what was supposed to be Strait's farewell tour, but it's enough to show that Strait is absolutely in the same weight class as Springsteen in terms of live attendance, if not a higher one.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States)
It's really surprising to see that George Strait (another country guy) has sold more records than Bruce Springsteen's in the US.
Is he really bigger than Springsteen? Do his live shows have a bigger attendance than Springsteen? I doubt it.
WildRanger, Anguyen literally pointed out just a few posts above this that George Strait had the most-attended indoor concert in North American history, with 104,793 people in attendance. This was also the largest single-ticket show in North American history. You can literally look these things up. You can look up Springsteen's most recent tour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_River_Tour_(2016)#Tour_dates) and see that he wasn't coming close to 100,000 for a single show (the six-figure numbers in that chart are cumulative numbers for multiple dates).
It's not directly comparable seeing as that 104,793 show was the last stop on what was supposed to be Strait's farewell tour, but it's enough to show that Strait is absolutely in the same weight class as Springsteen in terms of live attendance, if not a higher one.
And honestly who cares how many people have seen either. You like the music you go. You don't like it, you don't go.
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Sure, it's not a big deal to me at all. I like but don't love both of those artists. I probably wouldn't pay for a stadium ticket for either, whereas I'd definitely pay stadium prices for my favorite artists, most of whom probably get less than 1/10th the attendance of either of those.
I just find it interesting how immensely popular country music is in the US, and how difficult it is for some people, including Americans who move in non-country-loving cultural circles, to believe that.
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Sure, it's not a big deal to me at all. I like but don't love both of those artists. I probably wouldn't pay for a stadium ticket for either, whereas I'd definitely pay stadium prices for my favorite artists, most of whom probably get less than 1/10th the attendance of either of those.
I just find it interesting how immensely popular country music is in the US, and how difficult it is for some people, including Americans who move in non-country-loving cultural circles, to believe that.
It's our snobbish hatred of that style of music. :lol I pick on 2 of my friends wives who love country music. We all get a few laughs on Facebook.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States)
It's really surprising to see that George Strait (another country guy) has sold more records than Bruce Springsteen's in the US.
Is he really bigger than Springsteen? Do his live shows have a bigger attendance than Springsteen? I doubt it.
Define what "bigger" means. They're both 5'10", but Google suggests Strait weighs a bit more. Why do you constantly ask these sorts of comparative questions based on subjective terms that have no set definition?
If "bigger" means person who sold more records in the U.S., then you've answered your own question.
Concert attendance? Putting aside the single-show comparison previously mentioned, according to setlist.fm, Springsteen played 1,108 concerts between 2002-2021. By contrast, Strait played only 360 concerts over the same period of time, so it would seem axiomatic that Springsteen's attendance is greater unless Strait, on average, draws 3x as many people to each show. Attendance per show? Heck if I know. However, what does concert attendance have to do with record sales, which is what prompted your question in the first place?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States)
It's really surprising to see that George Strait (another country guy) has sold more records than Bruce Springsteen's in the US.
Is he really bigger than Springsteen? Do his live shows have a bigger attendance than Springsteen? I doubt it.
Define what "bigger" means. They're both 5'10", but Google suggests Strait weighs a bit more. Why do you constantly ask these sorts of comparative questions based on subjective terms that have no set definition?
If "bigger" means person who sold more records in the U.S., then you've answered your own question.
Concert attendance? Putting aside the single-show comparison previously mentioned, according to setlist.fm, Springsteen played 1,108 concerts between 2002-2021. By contrast, Strait played only 360 concerts over the same period of time, so it would seem axiomatic that Springsteen's attendance is greater unless Strait, on average, draws 3x as many people to each show. Attendance per show? Heck if I know. However, what does concert attendance have to do with record sales, which is what prompted your question in the first place?
If we want to know who has the bigger concert attendance, don't we also need to compare the average height and weight of a Bruce Springsteen concertgoer with the average height and weight of a George Strait concertgoer?
Also, do hats count when we're measuring bigness? Because that could be a significant game-changer in favor of Strait and his audience.
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All y'all gotta take your hats off.
:lol :lol
Also, I think the next WR poll will be "whose fans are bigger: Springsteen or Strait?"
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I'm not Strait.
Not that there's anything wrong with that..
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The Beatles have never clicked for me. Of all the songs I've heard, and admittedly, I haven't heard a lot, I'd rank them from meh to so boring I have to change the station. Other bands from that era like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are far superior.
I couldn't name or even recognise a Garth Brooks song. Taylor Swift, Shania Twain, and Carrie Underwood are the only country related music I can tolerate.
But what I'd really like to know is does WildRanger write his own threads?
If this is the de facto country thread, I’m just here to say that the best country-related singer is Alison Krauss hands down.
I absolutely love Alison Krauss (one of the purest voices in all of music), but for me, she isn't really a country singer. She's bluegrass (which is related in some ways, but very different in others).
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There is some STRONG musicianship on some of those records, both in the name artists - Brad Paisley, Keith Urban, Vince Gill - and in the backup players - Reggie Young, for one. There is also some excellent songwriting.
I've heard a few Urban songs on Youtube (maybe 6 or 7) and they're formulaic, generic and samey modern country-pop stuff. I didn't see any diversity.
And like many bands, what you hear on the radio or on YouTube isn't necessarily the full breadth of his catalogue. I'm not a fan of many/most of his hits/singles, myself, but I've seen him four times, including twice within maybe ten feet (I have pictures of him holding my daughter's hand while he signed autographs from the stage after one of his shows). The man can play guitar.
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The Beatles have never clicked for me. Of all the songs I've heard, and admittedly, I haven't heard a lot, I'd rank them from meh to so boring I have to change the station. Other bands from that era like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are far superior.
I couldn't name or even recognise a Garth Brooks song. Taylor Swift, Shania Twain, and Carrie Underwood are the only country related music I can tolerate.
But what I'd really like to know is does WildRanger write his own threads?
If this is the de facto country thread, I’m just here to say that the best country-related singer is Alison Krauss hands down.
I absolutely love Alison Krauss (one of the purest voices in all of music), but for me, she isn't really a country singer. She's bluegrass (which is related in some ways, but very different in others).
True, it’s country-related but not really country (I first started hearing her on Country Music TV for what it’s worth). At any rate, she’s amazing.
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There is some STRONG musicianship on some of those records, both in the name artists - Brad Paisley, Keith Urban, Vince Gill - and in the backup players - Reggie Young, for one. There is also some excellent songwriting.
I've heard a few Urban songs on Youtube (maybe 6 or 7) and they're formulaic, generic and samey modern country-pop stuff. I didn't see any diversity.
And like many bands, what you hear on the radio or on YouTube isn't necessarily the full breadth of his catalogue. I'm not a fan of many/most of his hits/singles, myself, but I've seen him four times, including twice within maybe ten feet (I have pictures of him holding my daughter's hand while he signed autographs from the stage after one of his shows). The man can play guitar.
Yeah, I've got no interest in his music at all but there is no question Keith Urban is a top-notch guitar player.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-certified_music_artists_in_the_United_States)
It's really surprising to see that George Strait (another country guy) has sold more records than Bruce Springsteen's in the US.
Is he really bigger than Springsteen? Do his live shows have a bigger attendance than Springsteen? I doubt it.
Define what "bigger" means. They're both 5'10", but Google suggests Strait weighs a bit more. Why do you constantly ask these sorts of comparative questions based on subjective terms that have no set definition?
If "bigger" means person who sold more records in the U.S., then you've answered your own question.
Concert attendance? Putting aside the single-show comparison previously mentioned, according to setlist.fm, Springsteen played 1,108 concerts between 2002-2021. By contrast, Strait played only 360 concerts over the same period of time, so it would seem axiomatic that Springsteen's attendance is greater unless Strait, on average, draws 3x as many people to each show. Attendance per show? Heck if I know. However, what does concert attendance have to do with record sales, which is what prompted your question in the first place?
If we want to know who has the bigger concert attendance, don't we also need to compare the average height and weight of a Bruce Springsteen concertgoer with the average height and weight of a George Strait concertgoer?
Also, do hats count when we're measuring bigness? Because that could be a significant game-changer in favor of Strait and his audience.
Everything is bigger in Texas. That is entirely objective.
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Also, do hats count when we're measuring bigness? Because that could be a significant game-changer in favor of Strait and his audience.
Everything is bigger in Texas. That is entirely objective.
This has major implications for all Strait's exes (https://youtu.be/QuJroujjYDk).
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Sure, it's not a big deal to me at all. I like but don't love both of those artists. I probably wouldn't pay for a stadium ticket for either, whereas I'd definitely pay stadium prices for my favorite artists, most of whom probably get less than 1/10th the attendance of either of those.
I just find it interesting how immensely popular country music is in the US, and how difficult it is for some people, including Americans who move in non-country-loving cultural circles, to believe that.
Straigh being ahead of The Rolling Stones might be the most surprising thing about the list of best selling music artists in the US. According to RIAA, Strait has sold 69 million album, while Stones have sold 66.5. RS has a much longer career than Strait.
Sometimes I really think RIAA certifications about album sales are not accurate.
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Sometimes I really think RIAA certifications about album sales are not accurate.
Because they don't fit your expectations?
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Sometimes I really think RIAA certifications about album sales are not accurate.
Because they don't fit your expectations?
Nope. I just doubt them.
For example, according to RIAA Iron Maiden's The Number of the Beast went only one Platinum in the US, and I don't belive it's true because that album has sold over 14 million copies worldwide, so it's hard to believe that it hasn't sold at least 2 million copies in such a big market as America to this day, since it was a very popular and hyped album at the time.
Also according to RIAA Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust" went only Gold in the US and I think it's impossible since it was a huge album at the time.
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Sometimes I really think RIAA certifications about album sales are not accurate.
Because they don't fit your expectations?
Nope. I just doubt them.
For example, according to RIAA Iron Maiden's The Number of the Beast went only one Platinum in the US, and I don't belive it's true because that album has sold over 14 million copies worldwide, so it's hard to believe that it hasn't sold at least 2 million copies in such a big market as America to this day, since it was a very popular and hyped album at the time.
Also according to RIAA Bowie's "Ziggy Stardust" went only Gold in the US and I think it's impossible since it was a huge album at the time.
Actually, Wildranger is on to something here. It's my understanding that bands have to resubmit their records for "recalculation" (that's not the right word, but I can't remember the correct word); it's not done automatically. There were rumblings not too long ago that Peter Criss and Ace Frehley were going to sue (now that they have been bought out of the Kiss organization) to, among other things, get some of the early albums recertified. The first three records are "only" gold, Alive! is "only" gold, and Creatures is "only" gold. Especially Alive!, wildly named as one of the best live albums of all time, it strains credulity that it is only gold. I don't know what the legal agreement is - and that's very important - but the rumor is that Gene and Paul aren't interested in recertifying because it would mean additional payments to Ace and Pete.
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That's interesting Stadler.
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It's hard to find a cite that doesn't have a bunch of nonsense ("Gene and Paul don't want re-certify because it would be a blow to their ego to find out they've sold half of what they claim to have sold!" which is bullshit), but just googling "Kiss album recertification" gets you where you want to go.
In any event, it's clear that the record co. and/or artist have to pay for the audit for re-certification. That alone tells me that the RIAA is suspect since it's not an automatic indicator of albums sold.
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Sure, it's not a big deal to me at all. I like but don't love both of those artists. I probably wouldn't pay for a stadium ticket for either, whereas I'd definitely pay stadium prices for my favorite artists, most of whom probably get less than 1/10th the attendance of either of those.
I just find it interesting how immensely popular country music is in the US, and how difficult it is for some people, including Americans who move in non-country-loving cultural circles, to believe that.
Straigh being ahead of The Rolling Stones might be the most surprising thing about the list of best selling music artists in the US. According to RIAA, Strait has sold 69 million album, while Stones have sold 66.5. RS has a much longer career than Strait.
Sometimes I really think RIAA certifications about album sales are not accurate.
The Rolling Stones have had a longer career in terms of years, but Strait has released the same number of studio albums. I think it's also reasonable to believe that Strait's fans are more likely to buy all his albums, including each new one as it comes out, while the Stones' fans are more likely to buy only the albums of a certain, "classic," period.
As Stadler has argued, it may be that RIAA is inaccurate sometimes, but I don't think you can just assume inaccuracy when a certain number doesn't fit your vague assessment of artists' relative popularity (in this case, it's already clear that you're inclined to underrate the popularity of country artists, since you've repeatedly underrated them on metrics that don't come from RIAA, like concert attendance). I think you need specific evidence about a certain case before you say, "Such and such is inaccurate."
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For example, according to RIAA Iron Maiden's The Number of the Beast went only one Platinum in the US, and I don't belive it's true because that album has sold over 14 million copies worldwide, so it's hard to believe that it hasn't sold at least 2 million copies in such a big market as America to this day, since it was a very popular and hyped album at the time.
Let's start with a couple basic points:
1. You don't live and never have lived in the United States. Right?
2. You aren't of an age that you could have had any awareness of what was going on with respect to TNOTB "at the time." Right?
So...what exactly is your basis for stating so conclusively what things were like in the U.S. in the early '80s?
As someone with far better perspective than you about such things, let me assure you that TNOTB was neither "very popular" nor "very hyped" "at the time." Prior to TNOTB, Maiden was a nothing artist in the states. TNOTB was released in March 1982. Maiden never played in the U.S. prior to 1981, and, in 1981, played 40 shows in the U.S. - primarily as an opening band for UFO. Even if someone in the U.S. liked Maiden prior to TNOTB, they were unfamiliar with the new singer on TNOTB (who was not yet with the band on any of its U.S. dates in 1981). Certainly, TNOTB had success in the U.S. "at the time," but Maiden was still an opening act at that point, and metal was not all that popular in general. TNOTB didn't even get certified Gold until after POM was released, and it didn't get certified Platinum until after SIT was released.
I also find it amusing that you're blindly accepting whatever source told you that TNOTB has sold 14 million copies worldwide but are doubting the RIAA certification number. What's your source for the 14 million sales figure?
I too would be surprised if, at some point in the last 35 years, TNOTB hasn't sole another million copies in the U.S. (if for no other reason that folks have replaced their original vinyl and cassette copies with CDs and, in some cases, have re-bought a vinyl copy). However, Stadler's point is well-taken,** and it wouldn't surprise me if Maiden and its management have no real interest in jumping through hoops for RIAA certifications.
The Rolling Stones have had a longer career in terms of years, but Strait has released the same number of studio albums. I think it's also reasonable to believe that Strait's fans are more likely to buy all his albums, including each new one as it comes out, while the Stones' fans are more likely to buy only the albums of a certain, "classic," period.
Moreover, the Stones weren't really an album band; they were a singles band. I'm not a fan, but I was surprised that I didn't know any more than two (maybe three) songs on any Stones album.
I think it's also worth pointing out that the Stones have only released four studio albums in the last 30 years, whereas (if the info on Wiki is accurate), George Strait has been consistently and regularly releasing studio albums for 40 years.
** - If you look at the RIAA data for Stones albums, four of their early albums that hit Platinum status (Out of Our Heads, Aftermath, Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed) hit that status on the same date: October 20, 1989. Their next set of albums (Sticky Fingers, Exile on Main St., Goat's Head Soup and It's Only Rock 'n' Roll) received their Platinum certifications on May 31, 2000. Starting with Black & Blue, Stones albums got their initial Platinum certifications around the time they were released (although many received subsequent certifications on...you guessed it...May 31, 2000). Pretty clearly, these 1989 and 2000 certifications were the result of pushes made by the band management and/or record companies.
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Anecdotally, I believe Mick Jagger sees the benefit of having multi-platinum albums. He gets paid, and it makes the catalogue - which they have moved at least twice - more valuable. It's in Mick's best interest to recertify, and so it doesn't surprise me in the least that the Stones redo those periodically.
Also, it should be noted that it might not be the RIAA that is faulty; garbage in, garbage out. We know Soundscan does a big part of the heavy lifting, but it's not perfect. There's also the "equivalents": how does a stream count? How do double LPs count? How do box sets count?
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I read pg's past and though, "Why would he bring The New Kids On The Block into this?" Only to do a double take on TNOTB. :lol
This brain of mine.......
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I read pg's past and though, "Why would he bring The New Kids On The Block into this?" Only to do a double take on TNOTB. :lol
This brain of mine.......
:lol :lol :lol
For the future, you can rest assured that I will never "bring The New Kids on the Block into" ANYTHING. :biggrin: