DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: LKap13 on May 21, 2019, 07:05:13 PM
-
Do you consider any of these albums to be "perfect"?
Edit - having trouble figuring out how to allow selection of multiple options
-
Perfect as in I like/love every track? Probably Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence even though it isn't my favorite album.
-
They wrote a couple of masterpiece albums before Mangini joined the band. After he joined, they wrote three perfect albums.
-
I&W, Awake and SFAM are perfect imo. I want to include 6DOIT but it falls a bit short.
-
They wrote a couple of masterpiece albums before Mangini joined the band. After he joined, they wrote three perfect albums.
The Astonishing Disc 1 and The Astonishing Disc 2... and what was the other one?
-
Images and Awake. Great albums from start to finish.
SFaM comes close but Through Her Eyes with those dated 90s Spice Girls drums take it down a notch.
-
I'd say Scenes from a Memory, SDoIT, Octavarium, ADToE, and The Astonishing are the only albums they've done that are 10/10 or close to it.
-
Images and Awake. Great album from start to finish.
SFaM comes close but Through Her Eyes with those dated 90s Spice Girls drums take it down a notch.
For me it's the "Ooooh yeah! Whoooo-oohhh!!! Yeah!" part in Through Her Eyes.
-
Images and Words, Awake and Scenes from a Memory
-
Images and words
Train of thought
Scenes from a memory
-
I&W is about as close as you could get to perfect I think. Even then, lots of people would still have issues with the drums and 'dated' sound (though they don't bother me).
Scenes isn't too far off as well - despite it being only my number 4 album - but I don't think it has the real standout, killer tracks of other albums. I find it more of a 'greater than the sum of its parts' album.
If you were going more for which albums are really consistent without any weak tracks/tracks I don't like, then I'd also probably say: Train of Thought, Distance Over Time and Awake.
-
I only consider I&W to be perfect, as in I really like/love every track. I have no problem with the dated production or the drums.
-
Aside from my (personal) nagging problem of pathos in DT's music (pathos is absolutely unnecessary in any kind of music IMHO), the only ones close to perfection are DT12 and ADTOE IMHO. (MM could have played more notes on both of these though. The man shouldn't be restrained.) These two are the only ones I listen to regularly.
-
Images & Words and Awake.
-
Images and Six Degrees, personally.
-
I&W, Awake, SFAM and SDOIT don't have any bad songs. ToT is flawless as well but it's too one-sided for me to call it perfect. 8VM is the opposite for me, perfect with one bad song SS...
-
Only Images and Words for me, not one song I don’t love and nothing even within those songs that I don’t love, I love every single second of every single song. Scenes comes close but there are some instrumental sections within the songs that I don’t love. To be honest the new album is pretty solid in that there’s nothing on there I would skip and nothing instrumentally that drags songs down, it’s all really good. Not sure I absolutely love everything though, some of it is just really good rather than masterpiece level like I&W.
-
Perfect doesn't exist, but some of their albums come pretty close.
-
Only Images and Words for me, not one song I don’t love and nothing even within those songs that I don’t love, I love every single second of every single song. Scenes comes close but there are some instrumental sections within the songs that I don’t love. To be honest the new album is pretty solid in that there’s nothing on there I would skip and nothing instrumentally that drags songs down, it’s all really good. Not sure I absolutely love everything though, some of it is just really good rather than masterpiece level like I&W.
Agree with all this
-
Awake is their one perfect album.
I would say Scenes if it wasn't for The Dance of Eternity.
Not sure how anyone can say 6DOIT when it has that unnecessarily long fadeout at the end of the titular suite.
I&W is pretty damn close, but while the triggered snare is part of its charm, it can grate just a tad if it hits me on the wrong day.
-
I know I'm on an island by myself with this one, but only UAGM prevents I&W from being "perfect" for me.
Other songs that prevent they albums they're on from being "perfect":
Awake: Innocence Faded, The Mirror and Lie
FII: New Millennium is the biggest stinker on this album, but none of the other songs would make for a "perfect" album. However, You Not Me, Hollow Years, Hell's Kitchen, Anna Lee and Trial of Tears would have made a pretty good EP.
SDOIT: The Great Debate and Disappear
TOT: Honor Thy Father and This Dying Soul
8VA: I Walk Beside You and the continuum intro to the title track
SC: Repentance is the biggest stinker on this album, but none of the other songs would make for a "perfect" album except Constant Motion
BC&SL: ANTR, AROP and TBOT
ADTOE: OTBOA, LNF, BITS, Outcry, BAI and BTS would make for a "perfect" album. The rest has the feel of "filler" for me.
DOT: Still to early to decide.
The albums not mentioned don't have any major stinkers but simply aren't good enough to be considered "perfect" (and TA is in a category all to itself).
-
SFAM and I&W are the only two albums that qualify for consideration in my opinion.
-
I know I'm on an island by myself with this one, but only UAGM prevents I&W from being "perfect" for me.
This belongs in the controversial opinions thread, STAT!!
-
Nice turnout for Distance over Time. I like it!
-
I know I'm on an island by myself with this one, but only UAGM prevents I&W from being "perfect" for me.
This belongs in the controversial opinions thread, STAT!!
It's probably in there somewhere. I don't know why, but I've just never really liked it (although I do like that thing that JP did a couple times with the whammy bar during his solo). It has always felt like such a lull sandwiched in between Metropolis and WFS/LTL.
-
I know I'm on an island by myself with this one, but only UAGM prevents I&W from being "perfect" for me.
This belongs in the controversial opinions thread, STAT!!
It's probably in there somewhere. I don't know why, but I've just never really liked it (although I do like that thing that JP did a couple times with the whammy bar during his solo). It has always felt like such a lull sandwiched in between Metropolis and WFS/LTL.
Under a Glass Moon is :metal :hefdaddy
(So are the other songs you mentioned - I could see it getting overlooked at first, but....)
-
Awake is their one perfect album.
This.
I&W is pretty damn close, but while the triggered snare is part of its charm, it can grate just a tad if it hits me on the wrong day.
Also this.
-
Astonishing is the only one I voted for :)
-
I'm not sure that DT have ever made a perfect album. Even Awake, or I&W, have a track or two that are good as opposed to great (TM, Lie, AD, WfS). This of course is also represented in the rest of the DT catalogue. However I voted for Awake predictably.
-
I&W
Awake
6DOIT
-
I just don't understand the votes for I&W.
-
I just don't understand the votes for I&W.
me either, but I think it's because I/W is an accessible (and therefore easily digestible) record. It seems to be human nature to gravitate towards that aspect of music.
-
I just don't understand the votes for I&W.
me either, but I think it's because I/W is an accessible (and therefore easily digestible) record. It seems to be human nature to gravitate towards that aspect of music.
I have to disagree with this. I&W has amazing staying power. In my experience, music that's "easily digestible" and accessible gets old after a few listens.
-
I get "accessible." But when an album has only 4 good songs, I'm not sure how you can consider it "perfect" no matter how accessible those songs are.
-
I get "accessible." But when an album has only 4 good songs, I'm not sure how you can consider it "perfect" no matter how accessible those songs are.
Only 4 good songs on I&W?! Bosk, you are high as a kite!
-
Well, they're great songs--either top 10 or close to it, every one of them. But still. We're talking about perfect albums, not albums with half perfect songs and half forgettable songs.
-
Yeah, I'd like to buy some pot off you now, if that's cool. You clearly have the good stuff. :lol
-
"Perfect" literally means flawless, and every album has something improve upon. DT fans, although seemingly quick to criticize the band and point out flaws, are actually really into the band and want to see a great thing become better. And every album has some sort of valid complaint to lodge against it. I'd argue that SFAM, IAW and SDOIT are closest to being perfect but even they have at least some sort of flaw. Quick examples: SFAM has that overly long and anticlimactic final section of FF; IAW has that triggered snare; SDOIT has a few unnecessary and forgettable instrumental sections on Disc 1.
-
Distance over time in 5th place. Very impressive
-
I just don't understand the votes for I&W.
There's not a bad or even mediocre song on the album. I don't normally forward through any tracks. For me that's perfect :tup
-
Pull Me Under - Awesome
Another Day - Awesome
Take the Time- Amazing
Surrounded - Awesome
Metropolis - out of this world incredibly amazing
Under a Glass Moon - Awesome
Waits For Sleep - Awesome
Learning to Live - out of this world incredibly amazing
Hopefully that helps clarify the amount of votes that I&W is getting ;)
-
"Perfect" literally means flawless, and every album has something improve upon. DT fans, although seemingly quick to criticize the band and point out flaws, are actually really into the band and want to see a great thing become better. And every album has some sort of valid complaint to lodge against it. I'd argue that SFAM, IAW and SDOIT are closest to being perfect but even they have at least some sort of flaw. Quick examples: SFAM has that overly long and anticlimactic final section of FF; IAW has that triggered snare; SDOIT has a few unnecessary and forgettable instrumental sections on Disc 1.
You say every album has something to improve upon, but I think this is a matter of perspective, and I find yours fairly bleak. What you call flaws, to me, is a reminder that this is piece of music is made by human beings. Your statement would make sense in a scientific or technological context, when saying that a certain goal can always be reached more efficiently, but I don't find that fitting at all in the terrain of art. The goal is for you to be moved, which requires an open heart. Setting some kind of imaginary bar that no one can reach is an effective way to starve oneself of satisfying cultural experiences.
-
"Perfect" literally means flawless, and every album has something improve upon. DT fans, although seemingly quick to criticize the band and point out flaws, are actually really into the band and want to see a great thing become better. And every album has some sort of valid complaint to lodge against it. I'd argue that SFAM, IAW and SDOIT are closest to being perfect but even they have at least some sort of flaw. Quick examples: SFAM has that overly long and anticlimactic final section of FF; IAW has that triggered snare; SDOIT has a few unnecessary and forgettable instrumental sections on Disc 1.
You say every album has something to improve upon, but I think this is a matter of perspective, and I find yours fairly bleak. What you call flaws, to me, is a reminder that this is piece of music is made by human beings. Your statement would make sense in a scientific or technological context, when saying that a certain goal can always be reached more efficiently, but I don't find that fitting at all in the terrain of art. The goal is for you to be moved, which requires an open heart. Setting some kind of imaginary bar that no one can reach is an effective way to starve oneself of satisfying cultural experiences.
I would definitely say I enjoy and am deeply moved by DT's music, even apart from the albums I mentioned. To me, the question "Which albums are perfect?" suggests an objective means of measuring the perfection of a piece of art, whereas "Which albums deeply move you?" has a purely subjective answer. Now you might point that I am assuming that there are objective ways to measure art, and you would be right. You probably disagree (per your statement "I don't find [my statement] fitting at all in the terrain of art"). I'm guessing we probably a philosophical disagreement over the nature of art.
-
Every album has amazing songs, some reaching flawless levels. As it stands, I think only 3 are perfect from front to back. To me, that means that there isn't a single moment where it loses momentum or feels a bit off. For instance, I&W is nearly perfect but Wait For Sleep isn't that great of a song. I don't mind that it's slow, it's just a bit off.
On the flip side, A Dramatic Turn of Events is perfect. There are some songs which I don't dig as much as others, Far From Heaven and On the Backs of Angels being two examples, but there is nothing about those songs that make the album less perfect or kill the momentum. Even Far From Heaven "fits."
Distance Over Time is incredibly consistent and the songs are mostly A+ quality.
Thankfully I'm not alone but I'm certainly in the minority, but I think Systematic Chaos is also perfect.
Those are the only three.
6DOIT Disc 1 is flawless. Disc 2 isn't.
ToT would be perfect without Honor Thy Father.
Those are just a few examples.
-
Everything apart from WDADU, FII, ToT, SC, BC&SL and DT12. And even then, some of those are pretty close. Regardless, nothing should be changed from any of them. They are the way they are, for better or worse.
-
The only album I consider to be "perfect" is IAW. Octavarium is my absolute favorite in spite of the one minor flub in TALW. The concept of the entire piece of art tends to elevate even that song to seem better than it really is. SFAM is also extremely close, but THE and the first half of Home kinda bring it down for me. (I know that seems like heresy to some, but ya...I've never much cared for the first half of Home)
-
I think Through Her Eyes is beautiful, and makes the album even better than it would have been without it.
I voted for quite a few albums. But I don't take things like the snare sound into consideration. Just how much I like each song on the album.
-
THE is "OK" for me, a nice break among the insanity. I'd say I&W. Every other album has at least one song I'm not crazy about.
-
Awake is their one and only perfect album.
I love 6DoIT but what stops it from being perfect is a common case for the band: they don't know how much is too much.
-
I would say only Images and Words and Scenes from a Memory are definitely perfect. A Dramatic Turn of Events is right on the line, and whether it is or not more or less depends on how I'm feeling about This is the Life on a given day. Same situation with Train of Thought depending on how I feel about Honor Thy Father. In the poll, I've given them both the benefit of the doubt.
A couple that come close, but fall short: Awake is perfect through The Mirror, but Lie and Lifting Shadows off a Dream are enough of a step down to miss out. And Dream Theater is one of their most consistent albums, but the quality level is not high enough to enter perfect territory, not because of a standout weak song, but because most of the songs (TEI, TLG, EM, BTV, STR, AFTR) are in that good-not-great range.
All the others have songs or elements that clearly detract from the experience enough to easily rule them out of contention:
WDADU: SS, LFAGA
FII: BMS, JLMB
SDOIT: Disappear and the ending of Misunderstood
8VM: NE
SC: Forsaken mainly, but only ITPOE and TMOLS really rise high enough
BCSL: AROP, Wither
TA: Like DT12 doesn't really rise high enough on average, plus the album is really too long.
Have only listened to DOT once.
-
I would say only Images and Words and Scenes from a Memory are definitely perfect. A Dramatic Turn of Events is right on the line, and whether it is or not more or less depends on how I'm feeling about This is the Life on a given day. Same situation with Train of Thought depending on how I feel about Honor Thy Father. In the poll, I've given them both the benefit of the doubt.
Those are my top 4 DT albums :tup :coolio
-
I'm as big a DT fan boi as there is but I'm not quite sure I can call any album "perfect"
Perhaps SFAM or Six Degrees...
-
I like 425's idea of listing some things that keep an album from "perfection"....because even the amazing albums have that one moment that doesn't quite "click" to make an album absolutely perfect.
WDADU: Mostly it's the production here. OAMOT is the only song that doesn't click with me.
IAW: this is the perfect DT album
Awake: Lie is the only skip track....unfortunately, it's permanently attached to The Mirror, which is the 2nd greatest song on the album.
FII: You Not Me and Lines in the Sand
SFAM: Through Her Eyes and the 1st half of Home
SDOIT: TGD, Disappear
ToT: No real "weaknesses" per se. It's solid front to back. Just nothing standout as jaw-droppingly amazing either. This is DT's "solid offensive line" album. It's all-pro, but you don't even think about it when it's doing its job.
8V: The lyrics of TALW. SOOOOOO cheesy. Every line sounds like it was pulled from a fortune cookie. I mean, literally. Buy Chinese for the entire crew, put ALL the fortunes together because it was a slow lyric day in the studio, and BAM! Fortunately, the strength of the concept elevates the entire piece.
SC: Too many to mention. Basically, most of the album. ITPOE Part 1 and TDEN are the only songs I go back to. The rest of the album is almost unlistenably bad.
BCSL: AROP, Wither, and TBOT
ADTOE: OTBOA hasn't aged well for me. The similarities to PMU detract from it a bit. It's still OK. TITL and FFH are just a'ight.
DT: Surrender to Reason. I want to love it, because it's JM's first contribution in so long, but the final result just didn't click for me.
TA: Still love the ambition of the project, but there are too many "half ideas" floating around. I actually wish it would have been fleshed out to 3 discs and had some of those 1 or 2 minute ideas turn into complete songs.
D/T: Still digesting it...but it's climbing the charts. But Out of Reach is definitely a clunker. Really puts a pretty drastic flaw in an otherwise near perfect album.
-
I like 425's idea of listing some things that keep an album from "perfection"
That approach started about 2-3 weeks ago in the middle of page 1 of the thread. ;)
-
Yeah, I'll fully cop to having taken that idea from you! :lol
-
IaW, Awake, SFAM, SDoIT
-
Images and Words
A Dramatic Turn of Events
-
I like 425's idea of listing some things that keep an album from "perfection"....because even the amazing albums have that one moment that doesn't quite "click" to make an album absolutely perfect.
This'll be a much shorter list for me. :)
WDADU - the vocals - I don't hate them, but they are what keeps me from listening to the album more
Falling into Infinity - You Not Me and Just Let Me Breathe; again, I don't hate or even really dislike these, but they're kind of meh for me
Train of Thought - the rap in Honor Thy Father
Octavarium - Never Enough and Panic Attack (Panic Attack is cool... but not something I really love)
Systematic Chaos - Constant Motion, "dark master" lyrics, some of the vocals on TDEN (live it's better though)
Black Clouds - MP's vocals in A Nightmare to Remember and some of the backing ones elsewhere
And that's it for me - I'm good with all the other albums.
-
Systematic Chaos - Constant Motion, "dark master" lyrics, some of the vocals on TDEN (live it's better though)
Black Clouds - MP's vocals in A Nightmare to Remember and some of the backing ones elsewhere
Thanks for the reminder about some of the things I love most about these two albums. Time for a listen! :biggrin:
-
Images & Words
Awake
Scenes from a Memory
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
The Astonishing