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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: bosk1 on March 25, 2019, 02:10:52 PM
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From another thread:
I have no idea if the volume issue was more on DT's team, or on the Wiltern. But let others attending stops on this tour be forewarned... if this wasn't a one-off, you may really need to protect yourself and be prepared for some insane sound levels.
Yeah, you know, I didn't find the SF show to be quite as loud as what you guys are describing (it definitely was loud, but definitely not the loudest show I have seen). But both JP and MM asked me if I brought earplugs before the show started, which they have not done before. So apparently, there is a problem. Sorry it dampened your enjoyment of the show.
Thankfully, I was wearing ear plugs, as I almost always do (unless I forget them). But this is apparently not an isolated issue, and even the band asked me if I had some. So please protect yourself and enjoy the show to the utmost. If you find yourself there and realize you forgot to bring some, you can usually buy them inside the venue, or at least wad up a bit of toilet tissue and stick in your ears.
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I really don't know why bands want to blast the mains up to insulting levels. I like it loud an powerful, but not deafening. A band like DT has too many dynamics in their music for that.
When I saw The Neal Morse Band in Seattle, same thing. The first set was ridiculously loud then got better later.
Dream Theater should really address issues like this with the sound guy. I mean, it's not that hard to go to the volume for the mains and back it off a few decibels. :\
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I really don't know why bands want to blast the mains up to insulting levels. I like it loud an powerful, but not deafening. A band like DT has alot of dynamics in their music.
Shout it out, shout it out.
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Dream Theater should really address issues like this with the sound guy. I mean, it's not that hard to go to the volume for the mains and back it off a few decibels. :\
Well, I think it actually IS hard. Dialing in the sound and all the levels is a complicated process. There's more to it than just turning the main up or down. If it were that easy, you wouldn't see such a longstanding problem happening to so many bands. This isn't new by any means, and it isn't limited to DT. I remember hearing similar things about bands in the '80s. I can't tell you why it is more complicated than what you say. But I'm pretty confident that it just is.
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I’m curious how loud they are compared to a typical Yngwie concert, which from what I remember was completely unbearable.
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I have a dozen right here designated for the shows :D
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Last night in SF was significantly loud, for sure. But its been that way for most DT shows I've been to since the mid-90s. The one thing I did notice (and while I had earplugs in, they are designed to let the highs in so I can hear the solos) is that James' softer voice seemed buried a bit because of the volume of the instruments. I hope as the tour moves along, they find a way to raise his volume during those moments. I am not a professional sound engineer obviously, but I would think they would be able to program in when James' level should be a bit higher, so we can hear those softer vocals. But either way, the show smoked. Just bring those earplugs folks! And headphones for the younger ones!
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Dream Theater should really address issues like this with the sound guy. I mean, it's not that hard to go to the volume for the mains and back it off a few decibels. :\
Well, I think it actually IS hard. Dialing in the sound and all the levels is a complicated process. There's more to it than just turning the main up or down. If it were that easy, you wouldn't see such a longstanding problem happening to so many bands. This isn't new by any means, and it isn't limited to DT. I remember hearing similar things about bands in the '80s. I can't tell you why it is more complicated than what you say. But I'm pretty confident that it just is.
Once you get the mix dialed in then it easy to adjust the level of the mains without losing the mix. Left and right on the soundboard consists of two faders, on some boards just one.
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I wear ear plugs at ANY concert. Open door festivals. Big arenas. Small intimate concerts. I never, ever leave the house for any kind of concerts without earplugs. I like to leave the concert without a ringing in my ears.
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I’m actually a bit excited they’re cranking it up a bit. Seems like the metal shows I’ve been to lately have been way too quiet. I was able to have a conversation with a person next to me with my regular speaking voice at the last Megadeth concert I went to. This should NOT be possible. Thought DT were a tad too quiet in 2014. TA was about right.
Anyway, I like it loud. It should hurt just a bit, and I want to feel the kick drum in my chest.
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I’m actually a bit excited they’re cranking it up a bit. Seems like the metal shows I’ve been to lately have been way too quiet. I was able to have a conversation with a person next to me with my regular speaking voice at the last Megadeth concert I went to. This should NOT be possible. Thought DT were a tad too quiet in 2014. TA was about right.
Anyway, I like it loud. It should hurt just a bit, and I want to feel the kick drum in my chest.
When I went to see them in 2016, I felt like their TA concert was more quiet than their usual show. I mean, it was still loud, it drowned out the crowd noise, but I felt like the tour prior, and the tour after, they were louder. The Astonishing show also had the best quality I've heard from them, in terms of how clear everything sounded, and how good the live mix was.
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Agreed. The Astonishing live had a perfect balance on the mix and volume levels. :tup
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Agreed. The Astonishing live had a perfect balance on the mix and volume levels. :tup
yes!
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I wear ear plugs at ANY concert. Open door festivals. Big arenas. Small intimate concerts. I never, ever leave the house for any kind of concerts without earplugs. I like to leave the concert without a ringing in my ears.
So much this, I'd advise everyone to wear earplugs at any gig - certainly rock and metal. It makes for a far more enjoyable experience both during and after the show and protects your damn hearing! Try and use a decent pair too, not just the cheap foam ones you get - you can get pretty good ones that aren't that expensive at all.
I don't think I've ever been to a gig that I didn't think was too loud, it has always puzzled me. But at least the earplugs make things more tolerable!
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I’m actually a bit excited they’re cranking it up a bit. Seems like the metal shows I’ve been to lately have been way too quiet. I was able to have a conversation with a person next to me with my regular speaking voice at the last Megadeth concert I went to. This should NOT be possible. Thought DT were a tad too quiet in 2014. TA was about right.
Anyway, I like it loud. It should hurt just a bit, and I want to feel the kick drum in my chest.
I don't think everyone wants to go to a concert and have that feeling of being "hurt" even a little bit. I mean for the people that likes being blasted that much, more power to you, but I would argue that there's just that many people that may feel otherwise.
For me, I was all the way in the far back, about a couple of yards in front of the sound board. I say that the volume really wasn't piercing at all and the volume seems pretty similar in comparison to any concerts I've been to this year. Although, even though JLB sounded really good, I did find it hard at times to find his vocals in the mix amidst of everything that was going on.
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My ears ring pretty badly already but I have grown used to it and can hear pretty well overall. But the real high end for me is pretty much gone. I am in 10th row center so will heed your warning. I was already planning on it. I usually do not wear ear plugs at DT but being so front and center this time I will. :metal
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I found it to be loud too but not overly so and I agree that using earplugs that can lower dB level without killing the mids and highs are good to use. I had some but chose not to use them. I also agree that The Astonishing live was the most balanced I've ever heard them.
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I’m actually a bit excited they’re cranking it up a bit. Seems like the metal shows I’ve been to lately have been way too quiet. I was able to have a conversation with a person next to me with my regular speaking voice at the last Megadeth concert I went to. This should NOT be possible. Thought DT were a tad too quiet in 2014. TA was about right.
Anyway, I like it loud. It should hurt just a bit, and I want to feel the kick drum in my chest.
I don't think everyone wants to go to a concert and have that feeling of being "hurt" even a little bit. I mean for the people that likes being blasted that much, more power to you, but I would argue that there's just that many people that may feel otherwise.
For me, I was all the way in the far back, about a couple of yards in front of the sound board. I say that the volume really wasn't piercing at all and the volume seems pretty similar in comparison to any concerts I've been to this year. Although, even though JLB sounded really good, I did find it hard at times to find his vocals in the mix amidst of everything that was going on.
Oh I realize I’m in the minority here, especially for something as laid back as a DT concert. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t like it when the whole sound gets so loud that everything turns to mud.
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This is most likely the only concert I go to this year. I hardly ever go to concerts and the last one I went to was to see DT in 2016...so I'm not too worried about the volume. However, the person I'm going with has a friend who is also going. This guy hasn't gone to concerts lately because he played in a band back in the day and has really bad ear ringing (forgot the term). He wants to take a chance just to see Dream Theater. I'll pass the warning along to him.
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Good thread.
The DT show I saw (with three friends) in Kansas City in 2014 on the DT12 tour was ear-splitting loud. In fact, it was so loud that two of us went to the balcony for the second set to get some relief and it was still unbearably loud. And I had ear plugs in, and it was still too much.
The crazy thing is that I seen them four days earlier in Chicago and the volume there was perfect.
Just goes to show you how unpredictable the sound can be.
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Take it from me, if you don't already have tinnitus, protect your ears. Don't think it won't happen to you.
I used to think really loud gigs were great. Now I'm sitting here in silence with my morning coffee, wishing I could turn my left ear down just to enjoy the sounds of the countryside outside.
(If you do already have tinnitus, you don't need to me to lecture you :lol )
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I must be one of the rare lucky ones. First concert was in 1979, then 100's since in every seat imaginable including every DT album. I think I remember trying some kind of ear plugs at one of the Maiden/Priest shows of the early 80's, but couldn't stand it and ripped them out in a short period and never wore them again. With around 10 years of playing on stage with a crash cymbal around 3 feet from my head in a shitty garage band, still, my hearing is great and I still have people asking me to figure out parts of audio that they can't quite hear. CRAZY!
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See, this is why I've stopped going to concerts. Even when I bring ear plugs (I always do!) my ears keep ringing for days afterwards because the volume is so insanely loud. I've already damaged them slightly after attending 50+ shows. No more.
It can't be that hard to dial everything back some decibels. Seriously. It's more a attitude thing, seems as the general consensus is that concerts should be LOUD. F that.
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DT have always been too loud, it's not just this tour.
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In Sweden our DB laws have been perfect for bands of DT's size. Here you can't go over 100db which is plenty loud for the places that they would play. On the other hand it really can mess with stadium bands or larger outdoor venues.
But I'm constantly reminded when I go to shows outside of the country why I have molded ear plugs.
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I’ve never worn earplugs at any show. Can you still hear the show properly? Only ask as I have developed tinnitus over the last 6 months so don’t want to do further damage but still want to be able to hear the show.
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I found out that all I actually need to do with the earplugs is cover the lower half of the ear... the equivalent of pressing that little lobe part that is attached to the head (It's difficult to explain without knowing all the proper definitions for the ear, but you know the shape of the ear that comes out of the head, mh? I'm talking about the part that makes a round ) and that you can press with your fingers), making sure to cover that filters out the most "annoying" frequencies, and the quality of the sound you hear doesn't suffer.
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I’ve never worn earplugs at any show. Can you still hear the show properly? Only ask as I have developed tinnitus over the last 6 months so don’t want to do further damage but still want to be able to hear the show.
Look into earplugs specifically for music or musicians. Etymotic make some really good ones. They reduce the decibels without distorting the sound. So you will still hear the music clearly, rather than it being muffled.
https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearing-protection.html - I use the blue Ety plugs.
I'm sure I damaged my hearing by going to 50+ concerts over 20 years. I scared myself after seeing a concert where my hearing wasn't just cloudy afterwards, but actually had some ringing in my ear. After that, I bought some good earplugs and haven't experienced that since.
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I agree, the Etymotic hearing protection plugs are great.
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Take it from me, if you don't already have tinnitus, protect your ears. Don't think it won't happen to you.
I used to think really loud gigs were great. Now I'm sitting here in silence with my morning coffee, wishing I could turn my left ear down just to enjoy the sounds of the countryside outside.
(If you do already have tinnitus, you don't need to me to lecture you :lol )
Amen. I know exactly when I got it too. March 2000, 9:30 Club in Washington D.C. Queensryche was the headliner, with Jesse James Dupree opening. I was too close to the speaker, without earplugs, and it popped something. I felt sick for the rest of the gig and most of the night/morning thereafter. And the ringing never really went away. My hearing is still good, but the damn buzzing, even if it is slight, is always there. SUCKS.
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I'm used to loud shows. So I'll let you guys know if its loud.
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I was at The Wiltern last Friday. Yes, it was loud. News flash, it's supposed to be loud. I've never worn ear plugs to a concert because I want to hear it. Otherwise, there's no point in going. :justjen
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Dream Theater at the Oakdale in CT on the Train of Thought tour was the loudest thing I've ever experienced, and that includes the time at Pratt and Whitney when I got to hang out in the jet engine testing facility. I was was legitimately disoriented walking out of the venue.
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I was at The Wiltern last Friday. Yes, it was loud. News flash, it's supposed to be loud. I've never worn ear plugs to a concert because I want to hear it. Otherwise, there's no point in going. :justjen
I agree. Except for the fact I have gone to a bunch of concerts the last 3 years and got into DT during that time (which has led to excessive loud listening at home etc.) Now I have tinnitus...Not sure if it is still an after effect from last Friday night, or it is just getting worse. I may have to use the plugs next Sunday in Milwaukee.. seems wrong though :-\
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I feel the worst part is that even when you wear earplugs, not only does it muffle the wrong frequencies usually, but from a certain volume on your skull starts ringing too, and then you get these stray sounds on top of it.
Breaking The Fourth Wall was painfully loud, dang.
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I was at The Wiltern last Friday. Yes, it was loud. News flash, it's supposed to be loud. I've never worn ear plugs to a concert because I want to hear it. Otherwise, there's no point in going. :justjen
If you get the right ear plugs, you can have the best of both worlds - hearing protection and the ability to hear the concert without it being muffled. :tup
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Tinnitus is no small deal. Looks like a lot of people here have been struggling with that, and that sucks. Hope you guys get better at some point. I heard Al Di Meola got tinnitus and that's why he almost never plays electric guitar anymore, only acoustic.
Reading all these posts makes me feel better that DT never comes here on their touring cycles :(
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Tinnitus is no small deal. Looks like a lot of people here have been struggling with that, and that sucks. Hope you guys get better at some point. I heard Al Di Meola got tinnitus and that's why he almost never plays electric guitar anymore, only acoustic.
On behalf of all of us, thanks. It sucks. I am really careful nowadays to preserve what I have left. After 227 concerts, I have to be. I am sure my fellow tinnitus-suffering folks all do the same.
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I was at The Wiltern last Friday. Yes, it was loud. News flash, it's supposed to be loud. I've never worn ear plugs to a concert because I want to hear it. Otherwise, there's no point in going. :justjen
If you get the right ear plugs, you can have the best of both worlds - hearing protection and the ability to hear the concert without it being muffled. :tup
There is a brand called DUBS that works this way. It reduces the dB level by 12 but allows all frequencies through.
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Tinnitus is no joke. I have it in my right ear. Constant ringing. It started about 7 years ago. It also feels like my ear is full.
It developed over time by going to a lot of concerts and my drumming. Both of which I didn't use ear plugs.
As for the venue sound, no 2 places are alike. Acoustics are different. I've watched guys work sound boards at venues and they're trying to get the best sound possible. One guy told me that it sometimes takes half a concert set to have the sound dialed in to where they like it.
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Interesting thread.
I've been going to concerts -- mostly metal -- for 35 years and have never once worn or even thought about wearing earplugs. I have no idea if my hearing has suffered as a result, but I subjectively think I have pretty good hearing.
When I took my then 9-year old son to see Rush in 2011, I bought him these earplugs: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044DEESS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
When I took my 15-year old daughter to see Panic at the Disco last month, she didn't wear ear plugs (even though she has her own set of the same earplugs for occasional use while playing piccolo in her high school marching band). Obviously, PATD isn't a metal band, which is probably why it didn't even occur to me to suggest that she wear her earplugs.
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Thanks for the recommendations. I was actually going to ask which earplugs you guys wear. I use earplugs for some of the work I do but they don't offer the best protection and can get uncomfortable. Do the DUBS earplugs work?
I have tinnitus. Gets really bad during the nights when I'm trying to sleep. It's not bad enough for me but there's no cure for it. A colleague at work went through some hypnosis/meditation stuff and he doesn't have it. Well, he still does, but he just doesn't notice it.
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When I took my then 9-year old son to see Rush in 2011, I bought him these earplugs: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0044DEESS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
I wear these. There are more expensive ones on the market that are a bit better, but for the price point, I have been satisfied with these.
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I took my father to see DT during the DT12 tour, he said his ears were ringing for days after that. I had no issues. My ears are already past that damage.
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Tinnitus is no small deal. Looks like a lot of people here have been struggling with that, and that sucks. Hope you guys get better at some point. I heard Al Di Meola got tinnitus and that's why he almost never plays electric guitar anymore, only acoustic.
On behalf of all of us, thanks. It sucks. I am really careful nowadays to preserve what I have left. After 227 concerts, I have to be. I am sure my fellow tinnitus-suffering folks all do the same.
227 shows? :omg: No wonder you need ear plugs. I've been attending concerts for more than 30 years but the amount of shows I've seen probably isn't even half that amount. That would probably explain why I'm not experiencing problems even though I've never worn ear plugs.
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I know tons of people have me WAY beat on the total number. Dream Theater is #2 on my list - 14 times. Queensryche - 36 (last was 2013), Dream Theater - 14 (last was on Sunday) - Tesla - 11 (last was 2012), Sevendust - 10 (last was 2014), and Fates Warning - 8 (as of next week, as I have three gigs from them coming up)
My wife is in the 250s (she got started a few years before me). Her hearing is pristine -- she has always worn hearing protection.
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I'm glad to see that you all take this subject seriously. As stated above, tinnitus is no joke and whatever hearing you lose is gone forever.
After my first two rock concerts back in the 80s, I swore off of never being without earplugs ever again. The 2nd show I saw was Poison opening for Quiet Riot and every time Bret Michaels would scream into the mic it would throw my equilibrium off to the point that I had to hold onto the chair in front of me. My ears rang for probably 3 days after that. Never again, I said, and now I always take ear plugs even to all shows, even ones that I don't expect to be loud.
I hate having to deal with the plugs because getting them seated just right can be a pain and the foam ones cut off a lot of the high end. Also turning your head can sometimes unseat them and then it takes a bit to get them back in place. The benefits outweigh the negatives, however. I've tried all different kinds and currently use Eargasm ones that don't block the highs so much. They itch somewhat when they are in, but they work and that's all that matters.
I used foam ones at the Dream Theater 2017 show, and then the Eargasm ones at the G3 show in Feb 2018. At G3, I was about 8 rows from the stage. JP's two Mesa 4x12 cabs were drowning out everything else during the encore - I literally could not hear anything but JP. Even with the plugs in, my ears got fatigued very quickly from the volume. The audience members in front of me and in direct line of fire from JPs speakers had no ear plugs and they were sitting there like nothing special was going on. If they weren't already deaf from that single show, they have to be well on their way. Regardless, because of situations like this, you almost need ear plugs just to decipher what the hell is going on.
And just think: JP he stood right in front of those 4x12s during the encore. And this was just at the one show that I saw. He does this night after night.
I often wonder how much those in ear monitors block, if anything.
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Always wear ear plugs. Started in the late '80s I think. Didn't really like the ringing noise after the shows.
And in my experience, Dream Theater shows in this decade have been really loud.
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DT plays a bit louder than most bands I see nowadays, but nothing absurd. For those of us that were catching metal shows back in the early 80's they're downright quiet. Like others I've got 250+ shows under my belt and last time it was tested my hearing was consistent with a person my age. We're all going to suffer some HF hearing loss. Such is life.
"Damage" is a strange thing in this context. The professional opinion is that infrequent exposure to loud music isn't a problem. Singing for ACDC every night certainly is. What I've learned over the years is that most people can enjoy a ridiculously loud concert with no long term effect. A very small subset of the population can go to one concert and leave with tinnitus so bad they go insane and blow their brains out. It's actually very similar to drug use, which is tolerable for most and debilitating for a handful. Of course the problem is that you don't know if you're in that minority until you're deaf or in a state of drug induced psychosis, so there's certainly some risk involved.
Personally, I'm just thankful that I have no problem. Crank that shit up. :tup
And I've recounted the story before, but Metallica pulled a stunt that was actually loud enough to piss me off. During one of the Summer Sanitarium tours Hetfield missed 2 shows because of his usual "summer mishap." They tacked on replacement shows at the end of the tour. Rather than one stadium gig they played two shed gigs in Dallas using the same PA. They stacked and flew everything that could fit up front, and put everything else at the back behind chain-link fencing. Until that point World Slaver and Theater of Pain were probably the two loudest shows I'd seen, and those were piano recitals compared to this Metallica show. Eric Adams would have chastised them for that shit. I had to leave for a bit in the middle of it, and out in the concourse area it looked like the rail-yard scene from Gone With the Wind. The thing that I remember vividly was that when they played the intro to One, the prerecorded helicopter and machine gun noises completely drowned out the explosions. You could see and feel them but they were mostly silent.
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Yes... I’m hearing enough about the ridiculous volume now that I will definitely come prepared. I’m also used to loud volume and have been to a ton of concerts. Luckily, it seems many bands play at reasonable levels these days, but I do seem to have some very mild ringing in my ears that I notice mainly late at night. Not enough to be a hassle, but does make me wonder if I have some very mild tinnitus. I’m not interested in risking my hearing further, lol. I just don’t get the need to play so freaking loud to the point people have to wear protection.
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Thanks for the advice. I took it and bought some earplugs. A year ago I had a scare where the typical ringing in my ears didn't go away in a day or so and I think I may have done some permanent damage. Still, I would almost rather not go to shows then to have a crappy muted sound. I splurged and bought 10 dollar fender earplugs and they were awesome. Really only blocked out the extremes and still sounded loud and crisp. I heard each member perfectly.
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I have not seen a lot of shows but from the ones I have seen it has been different at each venue. It all depends on who is working the soundboard. I thought the TA show I saw in Wilkes Barre PA at the Kirby center was too loud. James voice was swallowed up by the wall of sound. I saw the Neal Morse band on the current tour at the Keswick Theater in Philly and thought it was loud but it did not become painful and you could hear everything well. Thought they got it about right. Was at a concert Friday night with a bunch of different bands. One must have requested that the levels be turned down because it was noticably quieter. It was so much more enjoyable! Next band, wall of sound.
Honestly there is just no reason to dial it up into painful territory. Damaging your hearing is no joke. Isn't there something obviously wrong if we need to put out warnings to bring earplugs?
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Isn't there something obviously wrong if we need to put out warnings to bring earplugs?
IMO, yes, there is. And the band seem to recognize that fact since, again, two of them asked me at the show if I had some. The band is painfully aware (pun intended) that it is an issue.
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Always wear earplugs. Also, do yourself a favor, and spend on a good pair. Like these: https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VTXWBP/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=high+def+ear+plugs&qid=1554137903&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
You'll notice that not only are you protecting your hearing, but the concert also sounds a lot better!
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Isn't there something obviously wrong if we need to put out warnings to bring earplugs?
IMO, yes, there is. And the band seem to recognize that fact since, again, two of them asked me at the show if I had some. The band is painfully aware (pun intended) that it is an issue.
They know it's an issue? Couldn't that be fixed pretty quickly and easily. I'm not a fan of it being too loud, but it seems with these nice theaters they play in, it would be best to not be so loud to let the buildings acoustics to help create a nice live sound. I'm not audiophile though.
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I've been going to concerts for over 30 years, and early on, I realized my enjoyment of the show was hampered by the loud music. Thus, I have been bringing earplugs to most of the shows. I may not have always worn them, but I did have them if needed.
However, in the last few years, the earplugs have become moot, since I now wear hearing aids in both ears. I have lost a great deal of hearing in both ears. To be fair, I've had hearing loss for much of my life, even before going to live shows, but I'm sure the live shows haven't helped, even with the ear plugs.
Still, I cannot recommend strongly enough wearing some protection..
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The last two DT shows I went to there were a few isolated moments where there was distortion. Could be my ears (which are already bad) or maybe the speakers. I am not sure. In one sense I know they have to provide levels up to the high seats, but I like to sit close enough to see the guys, and that's when it's usually absurdly loud.
Not that I won't keep going, but earplugs make sense.
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I've never used ear plugs, which should I get that are not too expensive and don't ruin the sound? Stuff like this perhaps - https://www.amazon.com/Fender-0990543000-Touring-Ear-Plugs/dp/B00AME3CMC ?
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As a semi pro musician and regular concert goer, I use these - https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3) By far the most comfortable earplugs outside of having moulds I've had.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Skeever :lol
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Good thread.
The DT show I saw (with three friends) in Kansas City in 2014 on the DT12 tour was ear-splitting loud. In fact, it was so loud that two of us went to the balcony for the second set to get some relief and it was still unbearably loud. And I had ear plugs in, and it was still too much.
The crazy thing is that I seen them four days earlier in Chicago and the volume there was perfect.
Just goes to show you how unpredictable the sound can be.
I was there and still feeling it
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As a semi pro musician and regular concert goer, I use these - https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3) By far the most comfortable earplugs outside of having moulds I've had.
Those are way above my budget, especially since I'm not a musician and there hasn't been a concert I've been to that was too loud. Small clubs don't raise too much noise.
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As a semi pro musician and regular concert goer, I use these - https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.com/EarPeace-Concert-Ear-Plugs-Protection/dp/B076VVP6CX/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=earpeace+hd&qid=1554290809&s=gateway&sr=8-3) By far the most comfortable earplugs outside of having moulds I've had.
Those are way above my budget, especially since I'm not a musician and there hasn't been a concert I've been to that was too loud. Small clubs don't raise too much noise.
If you don't want to spend too much, look for the Etymotic Ety Plugs. Those are usually less than $20.
These types of earplugs cost more than the typical cheap, foam earplugs because they're specifically made to reduce the decibels, but not alter the frequencies of the sound. So you can hear exactly what is coming out of the speakers, but at a lesser volume that doesn't damage your ears.
A cheap, foam earplug will just block ALL sound going into the ear, but not filter it based on frequency. So that leaves you with muddled, awful sound.
I went years without wearing earplugs, thinking it wasn't cool, and can't believe I did that. I wouldn't think of seeing a concert, even a local cover band in a bar, without my earplugs now. The $15-$25 for a set of good earplugs is well worth the investment, and they really do work so well. I pop my earplugs out now and then at concerts for a taste of that full-volume sound and it's so deafening.
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The Show in Boston that was recorded for the Breaking the Fourth Wall Blu Ray was ear splitting.
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The Show in Boston that was recorded for the Breaking the Fourth Wall Blu Ray was ear splitting.
That's interesting. Shows I've been to that were recorded for video have always been pretty quiet (relatively).
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The Show in Boston that was recorded for the Breaking the Fourth Wall Blu Ray was ear splitting.
That's interesting. Shows I've been to that were recorded for video have always been pretty quiet (relatively).
Maybe that explains why they had to fix the audio on that video. The band probably drowned out that orchestra and they might not hvae been able to properly record the orchestra? I remember people bitching abut the audio for that.
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It was ear piercing. It my have been I was right under the start of the balcony and there was bouncing going on.
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Is this perhaps why that live album sounds like it's a 5.1 mix played on a stereo setup? And the crowd sounds awfully doctored.
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I went to the show last night, and actually, I was surprised how not loud it was. Granted, I was pretty much right at the front, and the main, big speakers in the venue were at my sides, and aiming behind me, at the main area of the auditorium, but still, given the warning, I was expecting it to be louder. It didn't sound any louder than the Astonishing Show did, where I was in about the same place, in the same concert hall.
I brought earplugs, but right from the beginning, it sounded way too quiet with the earplugs for me, so I didn't use them, and overall, the sound was quite comfortable to my ears.
For the record, I recently decided to take a chance on these ones: https://www.amazon.com/Vibes-High-Fidelity-Concert-Earplugs/dp/B018WPOQSG
So yeah, they lower the volume quite a bit. I'd feel completely safe wearing them at an extreme metal concert.
I mean, it was loud, as a concert should be, of course, but compared to other concerts I've been to, where I'd sing along and wouldn't be able to hear myself even at the top of my lungs, in this one, I could hear myself singing along well enough, and I wasn't even singing at my maximum volume, so at least where I was sitting, it wasn't nearly as loud as I expected it to be.
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I was first row mezzanine Center last night . Didn’t need earplugs and the mix and balance were actually quite good . One of the best balanced Dream Theater concerts (sound wise) I’ve ever been to (out of 12 DT shows)
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I've always worn ear protection for any DT concert I've ever attended, but thanks for the friendly reminder.
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Have they ever said why they have the volume so high?
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Me and daughter had to wear them for the first part, but for SFaM we didn't , it was just fine.
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my son and I went to the Red Bank show last night. Great show! but L O U D!!! The first set I thought my head was going to pop off. I brought earplugs and didn't wear them for the first set (I never wear earplugs but I bring them!) and had them on for SFAM but took them out and it didn't seem that loud the 2nd set so I kept them out.
I wonder if Bosk or someone else could ask why the concerts need to be so damn loud and distorted. My son who is a veteran of many metal shows said it was too loud! If NMB and Steven Wilson can give clear but loud sounding concerts, why not DT?
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my son and I went to the Red Bank show last night. Great show! but L O U D!!! The first set I thought my head was going to pop off. I brought earplugs and didn't wear them for the first set (I never wear earplugs but I bring them!) and had them on for SFAM but took them out and it didn't seem that loud the 2nd set so I kept them out.
I wonder if Bosk or someone else could ask why the concerts need to be so damn loud and distorted. My son who is a veteran of many metal shows said it was too loud! If NMB and Steven Wilson can give clear but loud sounding concerts, why not DT?
Was also at this show, all the way in the top of the back and thought it sounded great up there, but if I went down to the bottom of the balcony, I thought the sound was too loud especially the vocals. I was happy to have much better sound where I was seated.
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I was at the Chicago show and the sound was excellent, James mic was too loud for the opener and then they adjusted the mix and it was amazing. If anything it actually could have been louder.
I'm sure every venue is different and it depends on where you sit.
The first DT concert I ever went to was when they toured with Spocks Beard in 99 or 2000.... I was right next to the speaker and I thought my head might explode. I hated the show.
Thankfully the next 11 concerts I have seen by them have all been amazing :metal
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Well, based on multiple warnings I’ve received, both inside and outside the board, I shall come well prepared to Dallas. Took someone’s advice here and ordered a set of Ear Peace plugs. :)
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From another thread:
I have no idea if the volume issue was more on DT's team, or on the Wiltern. But let others attending stops on this tour be forewarned... if this wasn't a one-off, you may really need to protect yourself and be prepared for some insane sound levels.
Yeah, you know, I didn't find the SF show to be quite as loud as what you guys are describing (it definitely was loud, but definitely not the loudest show I have seen). But both JP and MM asked me if I brought earplugs before the show started, which they have not done before. So apparently, there is a problem. Sorry it dampened your enjoyment of the show.
Thankfully, I was wearing ear plugs, as I almost always do (unless I forget them). But this is apparently not an isolated issue, and even the band asked me if I had some. So please protect yourself and enjoy the show to the utmost. If you find yourself there and realize you forgot to bring some, you can usually buy them inside the venue, or at least wad up a bit of toilet tissue and stick in your ears.
I feel like this should be a sticky, ha. My friend and I didn't have earplugs and suffered. I had read about it being loud online before hand, but I was like eh, loud schmoud. I'll be okay.
But I should have listened then, because I certainly can't now. Ears still ringing
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It's been 3+ weeks since the 1st of my 2 shows. The first was Cazy loud. The second I brought the earplugs, but it wasn't nearly as loud so I didnt use them. My ears are Still ringing. I keep thinking I should forgo any music for a while, and have made a conscious decision to keep the volume low when I do. Wonder if it's too late. ???
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I think everyone should just get into the habit of bringing earplugs to every show. They don't take up much room in your pocket. I'd also say people should put them in at the beginning of each show. If the volume is so low that you just can't hear it, you can always take them out. Enough people have shared their experiences with tinnitus and hearing loss and I think it's just better to protect yourself.
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I brought earplugs, but ended up not using them. My hearing must be shot, since it didn't bother me but I would say it was pretty loud regardless.
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It was loud at the Beacon in NYC a few nights ago but I didn't experience any pain. It helps to know the music very well beforehand. I'd never go to a concert to see a band I don't know very well especially a loud heavy band. When Exodus opened for King Diamond a few years ago I had no idea what they were playing. I'm mostly a Metal guy but I wasn't into Exodus.
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So is the band aware of this? Maybe try to lower the volume levels a bit?
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my son and I went to the Red Bank show last night. Great show! but L O U D!!! The first set I thought my head was going to pop off. I brought earplugs and didn't wear them for the first set (I never wear earplugs but I bring them!) and had them on for SFAM but took them out and it didn't seem that loud the 2nd set so I kept them out.
I wonder if Bosk or someone else could ask why the concerts need to be so damn loud and distorted. My son who is a veteran of many metal shows said it was too loud! If NMB and Steven Wilson can give clear but loud sounding concerts, why not DT?
I was at the Red Bank show as well and yeah it was very loud, especially the first set. I wore earplugs (as I always do) so my ears were completely fine, but without them my ears would have been ringing for days. The crack of MM’s snare was especially loud, although I thought that was a good thing.
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I have been to several concerts the last couple of years. Metallica, Judas Priest, Megadeth, Queenstyche and none were this painfully loud. I was up front for most. The 3 Astonishing shows were perfect. I remember saying , wow! ;) loud but perfectly clear. I wonder why it is different now.. :huh:
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I was at the show in Charlotte last night, and unfortunately I had forgotten to bring earplugs.
That was one of the loudest fucking concerts I've ever been to, and I saw the Who years and years ago.
My right ear especially is still not right.
I made a comment about it to JP after the show, and he said "Aw man. Shoulda worn some earplugs." No shit, thanks JP lol
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I was at the show in Charlotte last night, and unfortunately I had forgotten to bring earplugs.
That was one of the loudest fucking concerts I've ever been to, and I saw the Who years and years ago.
My right ear especially is still not right.
I made a comment about it to JP after the show, and he said "Aw man. Shoulda worn some earplugs." No shit, thanks JP lol
How about turning the volume down a bit JP? :huh:
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Why go to a live show if you have to wear ear plugs? :tdwn
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Why go to a live show if you have to wear ear plugs? :tdwn
Because not everyone wants to be deaf before the age of 40 thanks to bands who crank the volume up to ear-splitting levels, Dream Theater included.
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I am curious, why sooo loud? ???
I went to 2 of these concerts and there was a very noticeable difference in volume between the two. I had never thought of wearing earplugs at a rock concert. I have been to several metal concerts in the last few years and none have been so ear-splitting as the DT one I saw in LA. Milwaukee was much better. When I saw TA, it was Loud, but not painful. The d/t concert in LA even seemed so loud, that the music lost some of it's clarity. I was surprised by this - DT doesn't seem like a band that just wouldn't sound perfect.
Anyway I enjoyed both and now - 1 month later - my ears have (thankfully) recovered.
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Maybe this is their new method of stopping bootleg recordings; playing so loud that everyone's phones will distort :lol
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I’m curious, if he’s even aware, if JP is blowing off the feedback of the concert being too loud due to the possibility his hearing being messed up. When JP threw the release party for the self titled album, I remember some people mentioning how unnecessarily loud it was (cranked to 11, as JP put it), to the point where it was almost unbearable.
Either his hearing is messed up and he doesn’t sense it’s too loud, or he’s just the kinda guy that likes it overbearing like that. Or both. Perhaps they’re all unaware in the live setting due to the inner ear monitors. But then again, their sound crew might have last word on the levels, so I wonder what their reasoning is.
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Why go to a live show if you have to wear ear plugs? :tdwn
To be able to go to more of them. I have molded earplugs that cut evenly across the spectrum and actually also kills most room ambiance so it ends up sounding even better than without plugs, just quieter. I still get the physical interaction of the loud music but with no damage done to my hearing.
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Maybe this is their new method of stopping bootleg recordings; playing so loud that everyone's phones will distort :lol
This isn't meant to be a crack on JLB, I love his vocals, but have been thinking about this lately. How he sounds so good live in person and then on recording you can hear the nuances more. Maybe the loudness is part of the reason behind that?
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This isn't meant to be a crack on JLB, I love his vocals, but have been thinking about this lately. How he sounds so good live in person and then on recording you can hear the nuances more. Maybe the loudness is part of the reason behind that?
I do believe that volume must be used sometimes to make up for imperfections in performance, but cranking the volume up to painful levels is doing fans a disservice. Even at reasonable levels, there’s no doubt that we don’t detect a lot of things in the live environment that seem so painfully obvious in a YouTube clip. But I also believe live performances are generally done a complete injustice by cheap handheld fan filmed video. Even if a singer is spot on, you lose so much of the ambience they can sound terrible. Think how bad some raw, isolated vocal tracks from classic songs sound apart from the full recording — sometimes no better sounding than someone singing badly in the shower.
Unfortunately there are too many people who don’t consider these things when they troll videos and play armchair critic, lol. I’m pretty easy... if someone has a bad night, it happens. Plus, singers get sick, older, substitute notes when their range decreases, etc. But I can’t deal with deafening volume, which leads to my next question...
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I’d love some advice please. I’m going to the Dallas show this Monday and purchased some Ear Piece plugs that I believe I saw someone on this forum recommend. They come with three sets of filters — low, medium, and high. I know this is down to personal preference and tolerance, but which set might members here recommend for the show? The last thing I want to do during the concert, especially being up front, is fumble around changing out filters to find the right option, lol. Hope to get it right on the first try so I can protect my hearing without muffling out all the sound. If I had to guess, I’d go with medium. Thanks in advance for any suggestions! :)
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Some of the posts above suggest that the volume is to cover up JLB's voice being uneven or comes from a lack of confidence in the music. I don't get either of these theories in light of the simpler explanation that Dream Theater's trying to put on a good rock show. I've never really loved A Nightmare to Remember. But, live, when Jordan's opening piano reverberates through the halls, then jumps into the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE sounding guitar chords, with the sound of the Toms vibrating through your chest, I was made into a fan.
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Maybe this is their new method of stopping bootleg recordings; playing so loud that everyone's phones will distort :lol
This isn't meant to be a crack on JLB, I love his vocals, but have been thinking about this lately. How he sounds so good live in person and then on recording you can hear the nuances more. Maybe the loudness is part of the reason behind that?
It is a major contributing factor to why JLB sounds a lot better in person, but I don't think that's the motivation behind the volume. Tbh, I think the sound guy is just going deaf.
Is this perhaps why that live album sounds like it's a 5.1 mix played on a stereo setup? And the crowd sounds awfully doctored.
This was ear-splitting live between the high average sound levels that DT has had for the past 5+ years and the fact that Opera Houses are designed explicitly for a person's voice to clearly reach from the stage to the nosebleeds. Putting high SPLs into such an acoustic environment is straight-up stupid. And yes, it was ear-splitting. I was there.
I can tell that they use the same clips of the crowd over and over again; there's a high pitched giggle in the left ear that plays every few seconds when there's cheering. I think the crowd is probably too subdued on the bootleg, but I haven't listened to it in years. It was certainly subdued being there; my dad thinks that a lot of the people in the upper mezzanine with us were Berklee parents.
I don't think that the audio was problematic on the source recordings for any reason. I think that the release sounds extremely artificial because that was the aesthetic they were pushing at the time. Live at Luna Park is one of the fakest-sounding things I've ever heard. I don't even like to watch it. Even the studio version of DTXII sounds pretty robotic throughout.
And just think: JP he stood right in front of those 4x12s during the encore. And this was just at the one show that I saw. He does this night after night.
I often wonder how much those in ear monitors block, if anything.
I have Etyomtic IEMs with triple-flange tips which block out more than the Heroes High Fidelity (and various Vic Firth/Zildjian rebadges). I would think that custom molded block out at least as much as them.
On-stage is actually not nearly as loud, as I understand it. Most of the time, JP's stage cabs were dummies; they were disconnected, and his real cabs were off-stage. Beyond that, they were mic'd. They run at a much lower volume than you may think.
In the nineties, though, back with the old-fashioned monitors, I believe that MP remarked that it was as loud on stage as it was in the audience.
Dream Theater at the Oakdale in CT on the Train of Thought tour was the loudest thing I've ever experienced, and that includes the time at Pratt and Whitney when I got to hang out in the jet engine testing facility. I was was legitimately disoriented walking out of the venue.
I know we discussed this elsewhere on the board, but my Dad has corroborated a similar account for the previous tour, the one with Queensryche.
CT/Oakdale this year was not particularly loud, btw, but it's been tolerable at every show I've seen there in at least ten years. Wallingford NIMBYs may have something to do with that. My cousin, seated under the balcony, thought it was pretty loud, but I dunno if he really knows what "loud" is yet. I was seated towards the back of the section directly afront the stage, and thought the levels were fine. I thought the same when I was directly in front of Petrucci for The Astonishing. I don't remember how loud the 2009 show was; I was eleven, but I think I'd remember if it was unbearably loud. I do recall a bit of short-term tinnitus after Worcester 2010.
Personally, I bring a set of the Heroes high fidelity (except I think they're Vic Firth branded rn) to concerts. Unfortunately, when I saw MP's Shattered Fortress in NYC last year (quite a loud show IIRC), I found that the sub-bass still reverberated through my skull, and so things still felt muffled. I wore them for the opening act (sry Max) but let MP's drums enter my ears raw. Couldn't hear much in the subway afterward though.
Few pro concerts have been as harsh on ears than kids in a large basement playing shitty punk. I think my brass snare drum and cheap B8-alloy high hats, played with teenage vigor along to music via headphones, have done more harm to my ears than any concert. That got a lot better once I discovered IEMs.
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Some of the posts above suggest that the volume is to cover up JLB's voice being uneven or comes from a lack of confidence in the music. I don't get either of these theories in light of the simpler explanation that Dream Theater's trying to put on a good rock show. I've never really loved A Nightmare to Remember. But, live, when Jordan's opening piano reverberates through the halls, then jumps into the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE sounding guitar chords, with the sound of the Toms vibrating through your chest, I was made into a fan.
Yep. My takeaway from it is that JP is one of those guys that appreciates a good and loud rock concert. More power to him.
Something else that hadn't occurred to me is that a lot of us are pretty spoiled in terms of being right up front for DT shows. They don't sell a ton of tickets, and plenty here are able to buy the VIP seats. Metty will chime in, as he was right in front of one of the biggest stage-fill cabinets I've ever seen last night. I've been front row at a couple of DT gigs, and at one of them a pretty cheap stage-fill speaker rattled me pretty good. Not deafeningly loud, but all in the upper ranges. Perhaps that might be part of the issue here. It's pretty easy to get in front of the sweet spot.
In any case, I noticed a definite difference in SPL between the two sets. Don't know if it was intentional or not, but we both thought there was nothing egregious at all about set 1 last night. Set two was pretty loud. Certainly not ear-splitting, but a good punch in the chest thumping. Exactly as it should be, IMO. DT has always been pretty loud by modern standards, and last night was probably the best example. By which I mean best quality. I've heard them louder, but this was perfect, I thought.
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I used Ear Peace plugs last night in Dallas with the default red filters. They worked great, but this show definitely didn’t seem ear-splittingly loud and I felt I could have gotten by with the clear (lightest) filters. I barely had them seated in my ears and would occasionally pull them out if the drums weren’t thundering. Finished the show from “One Last Time” to the end without them in at all.
Have to say JLB sounded absolutely fantastic even with the plugs in, which I’d think would highlight more issues than full sound. He knocked it out of the park!
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I used Ear Peace plugs last night in Dallas with the default red filters. They worked great, but this show definitely didn’t seem ear-splittingly loud and I felt I could have gotten by with the clear (lightest) filters. I barely had them seated in my ears and would occasionally pull them out if the drums weren’t thundering. Finished the show from “One Last Time” to the end without them in at all.
Have to say JLB sounded absolutely fantastic even with the plugs in, which I’d think would highlight more issues than full sound. He knocked it out of the park!
You were 3 rows in front of me. Were you getting your sound from the mains or from the stage fill? I was definitely in front of the left side mains, but just barely.
And yeah, it was a good night for JLB.
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Want to thank bosk1 and MusicMaker (and everyone else for that matter) for the heads-up on the sound levels... if my wife and I had not brought our Hearos I'm not sure we could've made it through the show. We sat right behind the soundboard and it consistently pinged 110-115 dB during the show, maxing at 117.4 during the end of Finally Free.
That said, the show was still awesome!!!
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You were 3 rows in front of me. Were you getting your sound from the mains or from the stage fill? I was definitely in front of the left side mains, but just barely.
And yeah, it was a good night for JLB.
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I’m guessing from the stage, at least after intermission. First half everyone in the front row didn’t stray too far out from our seats. Before the second set started, a few of us agreed we were going strait up to the stage as there were no barricades, so we were sort of in-between the front speakers. Such a good time and I can’t wait to do it again.
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I agree, the Etymotic hearing protection plugs are great.
Used them last night. Can't complain. They did their job and I could hear the music unlike regular work plugs.
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On a side note, I've been attending 20-40 concerts a year for the last couple years now. Just got my hearing tested and I passed with flying colors. Never wore ear bugs to a concert before either. The doc thought I was dumb for not doing so, but it seems to not have impacted me.... yet.