DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: WildRanger on April 03, 2018, 12:01:42 PM
-
According to RIAA Motorhead don't have one single certified album, it means they suffered poor album sales. None of their singles have ever hit American charts. And I can bet that Ace of Spades is the only their known song to a wider American rock public.
Were they ignored by American mainstream? What was their problem to achieve a commercial success in America?
Motorhead were definitely a way bigger in the UK and Europe than USA.
-
Even in Europe they are usually only known to metal fans in my experience. I for one could also only name Ace of Spades as one of their songs.
-
I mean aside from Ace of Spades, I know Line in the Sand, The Game, and King of Kings, but that was manly due to the band's relationship with WWE, especially with WWE wrestler (now COO of WWE) Triple H.
-
Cause Americans have bad taste. ;D
-
I mean for a heavy metal band I'd say they're at least pretty well known :lol
-
Overkill
-
Did they have any video/MTV presence in the 80s? I wasn't in to metal in that period but I knew of metal bands because of MTV and radio, and Motorhead wasn't one of them.
-
Cause they were a super specific, and immensely unattractive metal band that had no commercial appeal for Americans.
-
How were they any more specific than any other popular metal band?
I almost brought up the aesthetics. You can look like Alice Cooper, meaning Vincent Furnier, if you are fronting the band Alice Cooper, and that is your shtick. Likewise you don't have to look like <insert attractive singer here> but at some point does being unattractive become a hindrance?
-
They weren't good looking enough. It's America. Looks first, music last. :natalieportman:
-
How were they any more specific than any other popular metal band?
I almost brought up the aesthetics. You can look like Alice Cooper, meaning Vincent Furnier, if you are fronting the band Alice Cooper, and that is your shtick. Likewise you don't have to look like <insert attractive singer here> but at some point does being unattractive become a hindrance?
I'm willing to bet that Pull Me Under wouldn't have been on heavy rotation on MTV if JLB had a giant mole on his face.
-
Motörhead is NOT a metal band. Now aside from that, I can’t fathom why anyone would think Lemmy’s voice would appeal to mainstream American audiences. ???
-
Cause they were a super specific, and immensely unattractive metal band that had no commercial appeal for Americans.
Yeah, a lot of this for sure.
They came out in the late 70's/early 80's when Metal was out of style. They were kind of a niche band. I like Motorhead, trust me, and I'm surely a metal fan, but if I'm being honest, they're not even that great. Bands were faster. Bands sang better. Bands wrote better songs. Bands looked better.
But Motorhead more than survived sporting an immense discography. They toured constantly.
They were cool, but not cool enough to sell a ton of records.
-
Were they ignored by American mainstream? What was their problem to achieve a commercial success in America?
Is it really that difficult to understand? Lemmy's voice is, at best, an acquired taste, and his "cool guy" image is of relatively recent vintage.
Did they have any video/MTV presence in the 80s?
I believe Killed by Death got a bit of play on MTV, but otherwise, no.
They weren't good looking enough. It's America. Looks first, music last. :natalieportman:
SMH. :tdwn
-
SMH. :tdwn
You may not like it, but you'd be silly to deny that there is some truth to it.
-
Cause they were a super specific, and immensely unattractive metal band that had no commercial appeal for Americans.
Yeah, a lot of this for sure.
They came out in the late 70's/early 80's when Metal was out of style. They were kind of a niche band. I like Motorhead, trust me, and I'm surely a metal fan, but if I'm being honest, they're not even that great. Bands were faster. Bands sang better. Bands wrote better songs. Bands looked better.
But Motorhead more than survived sporting an immense discography. They toured constantly.
They were cool, but not cool enough to sell a ton of records.
I think I'm agreeing with TAC here, but they really weren't that good, and part of their legend now is that Lemmy didn't give up despite NOT having sold anything and didn't succumb to the power ballad. Honestly if they had been bigger they wouldn't have the legacy they have now.
Also they didn't tour as much as some other bands; I've seen hundreds of shows, and while I've seen Motorhead three times, but not until '94, '95. To my knowledge, they never got the big tour like Queensryche (Kiss, Scorpions) or Bon Jovi (Kiss) or Ratt (Aerosmith).
-
It's true they never get on any of the big 80's tours. I remember them opening for Alice Cooper the second time he came around on the RYFAY tour in early '88.
They played clubs all throughout the 80's here in the US.
I saw them on the Operation Rock And Roll Tour in 1991.
Stadler, how did you miss that tour??
-
When 1916 came out in the early 90s, I remember I’m So Bad Baby I Dont Care getting some radio airplay, and a bit of MTV rotation. It was sort of a “comeback” album and metal was just hitting its popular phase.
To tell you the truth, I was a bit shocked at the OP. I had no idea that they had no certified albums in the states. I didn’t know too many people that had any of the individual Motörhead albums....but more than quite a few got their hands on the No Remorse compilation.
-
I can’t fathom why anyone would think Lemmy’s voice would appeal to mainstream American audiences. ???
Then explain me how is Back in Black by AC/DC the best selling rock album of all time in America? That album features a new AC/DC frontman Brian Johnson which voice is absolutely like fingernails on a chalkboard.
-
Because everyone, EVERYONE, heard on the radio or saw on MTV "You Shook Me All Night Long." Plus Malcolm and Angus knew how to write the riffs and the hooks.
That, and it is one of the greatest rock albums ever.
-
I didn’t know too many people that had any of the individual Motörhead albums....but more than quite a few got their hands on the No Remorse compilation.
I got No Sleep Till Hammersmith when I was like 13.
1916 was terrible though.
Then explain me how is Back in Black by AC/DC the best selling rock album of all time in America? That album features a new AC/DC frontman Brian Johnson which voice is absolutely like fingernails on a chalkboard.
It just is. Johnson's vocals weren't that bad on BiB. They were distinctive, but not Lemmy bad. Plus it had a great production and massive airplay. AC/DC was a band on the rise at that time.
-
That, and it is one of the greatest rock albums ever.
Nope. IMO it's not. It's very overrated. If I want to listen some AC/DC I would take Powerage or Highway to Hell.
-
Nothing against Powerage or Highway To Hell, but I'm taking Let There Be Rock over both. :P
WildRanger, how on earth can you say that Back In Black is overrated? Even if you don't like it, you simply cannot deny it.
-
Sometimes I have to transport myself back to a time when I had never heard that album before.
I personally never listen to it anymore just because of how overplayed the entire album is. But honestly, when I go back in time to the place in my mind that heard it first....I have to admit it was a pretty amazing experience.
But ya...Brian Johnson has said his all time favorite AC/DC album is Powerage, and I totally agree. That album was the perfect blend of the raw and unhinged that came before, with just a bit more focus and clarity that would be overdone on the Mutt Lange albums. It’s a perfect balance, and to me, represents AC/DC at their peak.
But I thought 1916 was a pretty cool album, so what do I know. I thought the title track was rather touching and extremely well done. And very different for Motörhead...but not in a way that compromised.
-
Been a long time since I listened to 1916. I remember getting it and thinking it wasn't great. But I was a big fan of Orgasmatron and Rock And Roll.
I just prefer the heaviness of Let There Be Rock.
-
That, and it is one of the greatest rock albums ever.
Nope. IMO it's not. It's very overrated. If I want to listen some AC/DC I would take Powerage or Highway to Hell.
But dude, please. You are one person, one opinion. What on god's green earth gives you the impression that you can speak for the 25 million plus that bought that album? At the time - fall of 1980 - that album was LEGENDARY. It was almost the perfect blend of hard rock and balls - for the guys - and melody for the girls. I can remember Christine D. walking around eighth grade with her math book emblazoned with "AC/DC" on it. The only other band at that time to cross over like that was Van Halen (for obvious reasons; say what you want about him now, but at the time Diamond David Lee Roth was a god).
I'm a huge AC/DC fan - I just spent about a week burning the various live tracks from the Family Jewels and Plug Me In DVD sets to my network drive - and while I would go to High Voltage, Dirty Deeds, or For Those About To Rock first, that album is still worthy of it's place in rock history.
I'd also argue that Brian Johnson's voice is very different than Lemmy's. Brian has an odd tone but he CAN sing (check out the bonus tracks from Sting's "the Last Ship"); Lemmy's voice is very pitchy, and more often than not, he's flat. Finally, musically, AC/DC and Motorhead are rather different.
-
ACDC gets a lot of crap for being 'samey' and I'll admit I can't stand most of their albums, but their output through Black In Black is utterly fantastic and BIB is one of the best rock albums ever made. It deserves every single bit of praise it gets.
-
Maybe they weren't 'metal' enough for the head banging crowd and for those who didn't
like metal, they were too heavy.
-
Maybe they weren't 'metal' enough for the head banging crowd and for those who didn't
like metal, they were too heavy.
Maybe, but I can tell you that my friends and I spent a good chunk of the 80s running around and making dumb comments like, "if you [like/don't like] [name of band], then you aren't true [or troooooooo] metal!" and we never would have said Motorhead wasn't metal.
You know how some folks (seems to be women mostly) think really ugly dogs (e.g., bulldogs) are super cute? It think the same principle applied to Motorhead. Lemmy's voice was so bad that it was good, and the music was, if nothing else, honest and pure. But they never seemed to be anyone's favorite band.
-
@pg1067 we did the same thing too, none of use liked Motorhead, we even made fun of them, how Lemmy looked and how bad his voice was.
It wasn't until many years later that I saw them live and I still thought they were terrible.
It was only in the past 5 years that I was finally touched and felt a little of the Motorhead magic.
-
I like not love Motorhead; I can tell you that if it wasn't for "Another Perfect Day", I would barely like them. Couple of the hits are good, but a lot of it is pretty same-y.
-
@pg1067 we did the same thing too, none of use liked Motorhead, we even made fun of them, how Lemmy looked and how bad his voice was.
It wasn't until many years later that I saw them live and I still thought they were terrible.
It was only in the past 5 years that I was finally touched and felt a little of the Motorhead magic.
We made fun of them too -- mostly Lemmy's look and voice -- but none of us in "the head banging crowd" ever thought they weren't "metal enough." I only ever owned a double album (live or greatest hits -- not sure) and a friend got me Orgasmatron as a gift. I didn't think enough of either to replace them when I ditched my record player in the mid-90s. But I like a handful of songs.
-
I like not love Motorhead; I can tell you that if it wasn't for "Another Perfect Day", I would barely like them. Couple of the hits are good, but a lot of it is pretty same-y.
....said the guy who loves AC/DC. ;D
-
Motörhead is similar to The Ramones in a lot of ways. Both very influential bands, that never had the commercial success like the bands that were built off their formulas - Metallica and Green Day respectively. They just had to tour their asses off to make a living.
It's very interesting how an album such as And Justice for All by Metallica that had a bad production, lack of bass and chugga chugga heaviness, has sold over 8 million copies in the US, while Overkill by Motorhead hasn't achieved even Gold in sales.
How could be And Justice for All a way more appealing album to the masses of American listeners than any Motorhead album is beyond me really.
-
*choking on Hefesque response*
Opinions
-
It's very interesting how an album such as And Justice for All by Metallica that had a bad production, lack of bass and chugga chugga heaviness, has sold over 8 million copies in the US, while Overkill by Motorhead hasn't achieved even Gold in sales.
How could be And Justice for All a way more appealing album to the masses of American listeners than any Motorhead album is beyond me really.
Well, I know that everything is relative, and art and art appreciation are subjective.
But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally. Are there problems with the album? Of course. But the songs are gold. Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time. And for thrash metal, production was never one of the driving factors of success anyway.
But there is just nothing appealing to me (or, apparently, to Americans in general) about Motorhead. Lemmy was a shitty singer, and the songs don't stand out as being anything special.
If you like Motorhead, great. There's nothing wrong with liking what you like. I like some pretty weird shit myself. But I don't have any illusions that it's not weird, or wonder why more people don't like it.
*shrugs*
-
Hef, that is actually a great post.
-
But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally. Are there problems with the album? Of course. But the songs are gold. Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time. And for thrash metal, production was never one of the driving factors of success anyway.
But there is just nothing appealing to me (or, apparently, to Americans in general) about Motorhead. Lemmy was a shitty singer, and the songs don't stand out as being anything special.
If you like Motorhead, great. There's nothing wrong with liking what you like. I like some pretty weird shit myself. But I don't have any illusions that it's not weird, or wonder why more people don't like it.
*shrugs*
OK. That's your view. But Metallica would barely exist (as a thrash metal band) if not for Motorhead and that's not an opinion, it's a fact that you overlooked here. If you are a hard rock and metal fan, you don't have to be a Motorhead fan, but you should APPRECIATE their place in metal history. Although Lemmy generally has a "cool guy" image I think his band is really UNDERAPPRECIATED by Americans.
And when it comes to shitty vocals, James Hetfield's vocals on Kill'em All sounded shitty to me. And that debut album went 3 Platinum in the USA. So what. Is everything about vocals? I think not.
-
I didn't overlook anything. I just don't care. I know that Metallica liked Motorhead. They liked a lot of other stuff that never hit big here either. That's fine.
Not sure what you want to hear. You love Motorhead, and they are bigger in other places than they are here in the U.S. I like Mr. Big, but they've also always been more popular overseas than here. It happens.
For me personally, I have tried Motorhead on multiple occasions, but none of their stuff ever appealed to me.
But again, I'm glad that you like them.
-
But Metallica would barely exist (as a thrash metal band) if not for Motorhead and that's not an opinion, it's a fact that you overlooked here. If you are a hard rock and metal fan, you don't have to be a Motorhead fan, but you should APPRECIATE their place in metal history. Although Lemmy generally has a "cool guy" image I think his band is really UNDERAPPRECIATED by Americans.
And when it comes to shitty vocals, James Hetfield's vocals on Kill'em All sounded shitty to me. And that debut album went 3 Platinum in the USA. So what. Is everything about vocals? I think not.
Maybe you don't understand the difference between opinion and fact, but of course it's an opinion. It's also an irrelevant opinion (and I'm not even going to go down the road of "needing" to appreciate a band's influences to truly appreciate that band -- a subject that has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere). As far as appreciating Motorhead's "place in metal history" (and keeping in mind that Lemmy himself frequently declared Motorhead not to be a "metal" band), I can do that without buying their stuff. I once owned Orgasmatron, but only because someone bought it for me for Christmas. I seem to recall also owning No Remorse. I didn't replace either when I ditched my vinyl records in favor of CDs.
Also, Kill 'Em All didn't sell for shit until Metallica became well-established with AJFA and the Black Album and people went back and bought the back catalog. And I'd bet big money that a significant percentage of folks who dug AJFA and the Black Album and went back and bought KEA barely ever listen to it because it's nothing like those two or the subsequent crap Metallica put out.
-
But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally. Are there problems with the album? Of course. But the songs are gold. Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time. And for thrash metal, production was never one of the driving factors of success anyway.
But there is just nothing appealing to me (or, apparently, to Americans in general) about Motorhead. Lemmy was a shitty singer, and the songs don't stand out as being anything special.
If you like Motorhead, great. There's nothing wrong with liking what you like. I like some pretty weird shit myself. But I don't have any illusions that it's not weird, or wonder why more people don't like it.
*shrugs*
OK. That's your view. But Metallica would barely exist (as a thrash metal band) if not for Motorhead and that's not an opinion, it's a fact that you overlooked here. If you are a hard rock and metal fan, you don't have to be a Motorhead fan, but you should APPRECIATE their place in metal history. Although Lemmy generally has a "cool guy" image I think his band is really UNDERAPPRECIATED by Americans.
And when it comes to shitty vocals, James Hetfield's vocals on Kill'em All sounded shitty to me. And that debut album went 3 Platinum in the USA. So what. Is everything about vocals? I think not.
So? REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire". Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time?
I you're missing the point a little bit. It's not JUST about vocals. It's a general package. They weren't innovative in rock history, let alone in their period niche, the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal. "Cool" isn't really enough, and honestly, having been there at the time (I was in high school at the time, and remember buying Number Of The Beast upon release, and saw them as an opening band) Motorhead didn't have that reputation at that time. Lemmy wasn't the icon that he is now; if anything he was sort of a... not a fuckup exactly, but a fringe player. Eddie Clarke left in, what, 1982, which was early days in the metal surge in America (Iron Maiden was an opening act in '82, as was Def Leppard). In fact, I saw Eddie Clarke as a member of Fastway in '83 opening for Maiden on THEIR first North American tour.
Honestly, rather than being any indictment of America or American audiences, it was as much timing and bad decision-making as anything else. Plus, that sort of very British metal never really caught on here in general; the Maiden and the Priest that headlined arenas was NOT the same Maiden and Priest that played clubs in Britain. The Maiden of the first album is NOT the Maiden of "Powerslave", and same with Priest and Screaming.
EDIT: To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head. They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.
-
I, I on the other hand, often wondered why they had any success at all? :lol j/k but only slightly since I really did never understand the appeal of them
-
because their songs are all the same?
-
EDIT: To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head. They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.
Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.
-
because their songs are all the same?
AC/DC ??
-
EDIT: To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head. They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.
Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.
I think the question is about breaking through in the U.S.
-
So? REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire". Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time?
Wire was much more of underground than mainstream band, but they were influential and critically very acclaimed.
-
because their songs are all the same?
AC/DC ??
All due respect to Lemmy,but he was incapable of writing anything remotely as catchy as AC/DC. It wasn't his intent, i know, but it makes a huge difference when talking about record sales.
-
WildRanger, I have a very honest question for you. Changing the perspective, have you ever considered what an actually wonderful thing is the way appreciation fluctuates depending on cultures, areas, and eras?
Where's the fun in discussing rock'n'roll if everything succeeded (or blowed) the same way everywhere in any time?
-
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.
It was certainly released here in the U.S. I have seen and heard it. And it features Child in Time, which kicks ass. Not really sure what you're talking about here. And I'm not even much of a fan of Deep Purple.
-
So? REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire". Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time?
Wire was much more of underground than mainstream band, but they were influential and critically very acclaimed.
Which, in the States, could easily apply to Motorhead.
-
WildRanger, I have a very honest question for you. Changing the perspective, have you ever considered what an actually wonderful thing is the way appreciation fluctuates depending on cultures, areas, and eras?
Where's the fun in discussing rock'n'roll if everything succeeded (or blowed) the same way everywhere in any time?
Heck, that even happens here WITHIN the U.S. Ask Sammy Hagar. Or Twisted Sister.
-
EDIT: To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head. They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.
Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.
Out of curiosity, WildRanger, what makes you think you have the slightest clue what "most American rock fans" have and haven't heard of? You're obviously not American and, if I had to guess, probably aren't more than 25-30 years old at the most, so I really wonder what possesses you to make statements of this sort (which you do with great regularity).
I can assure you that just about everyone in the U.S. who was into rock/heavy rock/metal in the 1970s and 1980s has at least heard of and heard some or all of In Rock.
-
EDIT: To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head. They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.
Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Wait...what?! I am a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain (along with most of my friends) and trust me, the ONLY reason I've heard of Diamond Head is because of my Metallica obsession and the Garage Days album. Stadler is spot on! I can probably name one metalhead friend I know (I'm not entirely convinced he'd know them), and I have a lot of friends who are well versed in metal bands, who would have the slightest clue who Diamond Head are.
-
WildRanger, if you don't mind, could you let is know how old you are and where you are in the world. I apologize if that's too forward, but I'm trying to reconcile some statements in this thread, and I would like to appreciate your POV. But to appreciate it, I think I need a little more background.
I'll go first. I'm 50 and I'm from Boston.
-
WildRanger, if you don't mind, could you let is know how old you are and where you are in the world. I apologize if that's too forward, but I'm trying to reconcile some statements in this thread, and I would like to appreciate your POV. But to appreciate it, I think I need a little more background.
I'll go first. I'm 50 and I'm from Boston.
51 and from Hartford (which is about an hour and a half southwest of Boston).
-
Stadler is spot on!
Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.
-
Stadler is spot on!
Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.
Mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!
-
So? REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire". Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time?
Wire was much more of underground than mainstream band, but they were influential and critically very acclaimed.
Why does it matter if they were critically acclaimed?
Hint: it doesn't.
-
Stadler is spot on!
Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.
Oh I'm well aware. I think I've only been in this position once before, it really makes me question myself :lol
-
I have a Motorhead playlist on Spotify. It has all of 9 songs on it but man are those 9 songs good. It'd have 10 if Inferno was on Spotify...
...I would sum Motorhead up as being a band I like more in theory than I do in practice.
They weren't innovative in rock history, let alone in their period niche, the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal.
The double kick in Overkill was innovative. Like Eddie Van Halen being far from the first person to ever tap a fretboard with his right hand Phil Taylor was far from the first person to ever use two kick drums but he was the first person to do it quite like that, or at least is generally credited as being so.
-
It's very interesting how an album such as And Justice for All by Metallica that had a bad production, lack of bass and chugga chugga heaviness, has sold over 8 million copies in the US, while Overkill by Motorhead hasn't achieved even Gold in sales.
How could be And Justice for All a way more appealing album to the masses of American listeners than any Motorhead album is beyond me really.
You'll have to take into account that after Metallica released The Black Album, they really broke through and the demand for their earlier records also increased substantially. I tried quickly looking for how much ...AJFA initially sold, but didn't find anything. Also, ...AJFA had the first Metallica single to chart in US (One #35 on Billboard Hot 100), which probably earned the band a whole heap of new fans.
-
...I would sum Motorhead up as being a band I like more in theory than I do in practice.
That's kind of me, too.
-
Stadler is spot on!
Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.
Oh I'm well aware. I think I've only been in this position once before, it really makes me question myself :lol
You know how Chris Squire (Yes) and Jon Lord (Deep Purple) and Ben Orr (The Cars) didn't get to see their induction into the RnRHoF? That's going to be me in this forum. You guys are going to look back and say "Wow, that dude Stadler... that m-----f----- had it right more often than not. He was good looking, too."
Okay, I just threw that last part in there, but you get my point. :) :) :) :) :)
-
But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally. Are there problems with the album? Of course. But the songs are gold. Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time.
Would you explain me this? I know that 80's Metallica is widely considered as ONE OF the greatest metal bands. I can't deny it. But the greatest? Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest beg to differ.
-
Nah, if you look at album sales, ticket sales and their success (within the genre and in the mainstream) then Metallica are where it's at.
I'd imagine Metallica have made more money, though album sales and live shows, than any other metal band. I wouldn't even think it's close. Also The Black Album is probably considered THE crossover metal album. That might just be my opinion but it's one that a lot of others would share.
-
Maiden is in the conversation, for sure. But whether we are talking "THE biggest band" or "one of a VERY small handful of the biggest bands" doesn't really matter. That's beside the point and doesn't really have ANYTHING to do with what is being discussed here about Motorhead.
-
Discussing something to death, that is irrelevant to the thread, is what this great forum is built on :lol
-
Why does it matter that Motorhead didn't make it huge? You like them, what else matters?
Pain of Salvation is my favorite band. Do I care, at all, that almost no one in America knows who they are? Nah. I like them. I don't need more than that.
-
Nah, if you look at album sales, ticket sales and their success (within the genre and in the mainstream) then Metallica are where it's at.
I'd imagine Metallica have made more money, though album sales and live shows, than any other metal band. I wouldn't even think it's close. Also The Black Album is probably considered THE crossover metal album. That might just be my opinion but it's one that a lot of others would share.
It depends on what "the greatest metal band" means. It could mean the biggest (the most popular) or the best.
-
Why does it matter that Motorhead didn't make it huge? You like them, what else matters?
Pain of Salvation is my favorite band. Do I care, at all, that almost no one in America knows who they are? Nah. I like them. I don't need more than that.
I concur. You can pretty say that for any band that someone deems their favorite band, especially Dream Theater (though their following is pretty sizable in the states, the mainstream rock/metal recognition is not always as prominent).
-
Well yeah, but hef said that Metallica were "largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time". I mean Coheed and Cambria are my favourite band of all time and I think they are "the greatest". I know that's an opinion that others share but I would never claim them to be largely regarded as the greatest, as I know it's not true. Metallica on the other hand, I would say if you were able to ask every metal fan in the world who they consider to be the greatest (not their favourite, but the band that has gained the most success or notoriety) then I imagine Metallica would top the poll. No other band sells like they do, and that is for a reason.
I used to consider them my favourite band of all time, so I may be biased, but even though I don't anymore, I'd still describe them as the pinnacle of what metal bands aim to be.
-
But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally. Are there problems with the album? Of course. But the songs are gold. Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time.
Would you explain me this? I know that 80's Metallica is widely considered as ONE OF the greatest metal bands. I can't deny it. But the greatest? Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest beg to differ.
"Greatest" is just code for "favorite," which is completely subjective.
Metallica might very well be the "biggest," the "most famous," and/or the "most successful" metal band (and probably the metal band most well known to folks who are not generally metal fans or who are only casual metal band). But I wouldn't agree that Metallica "is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time."
WildRanger, are you going to answer the questions we've been asking you? You may not want to share that info, but it's rude to ignore the questions.
And, while you can find my info by checking my profile, I'm 51 and in southern California.
-
If we are going to be sharing that sort of info, I'm 26 and live in Garden Grove which about 10 minute drive away to Anaheim and Disneyland. Interestingly enough, I have not been to Disneyland since I started living in Garden Grove in 2017, but I have been to the Anaheim House of Blues three times since living in Garden Grove. Great venue, great concerts, great bands, great crowds, solid parking rate, etc.
-
35, from the UK and the proud owner of two of the world's stupidest cats :hat
-
And, while you can find my info by checking my profile, I'm 51 and in southern California.
I'm 39 and in Netherlands. So, why does it matter anyway?
-
I'm 34 from Jersey! :lol
-
I'm 34 from Jersey! :lol
Dude, you may have missed it but I posted a ska punk album in the 'What album' thread asking for your opinion. It's an album called Got the Thirst by King Prawn. Check it :metal
Edit: sorry to derail the thread further :lol
-
And, while you can find my info by checking my profile, I'm 51 and in southern California.
I'm 39 and in Netherlands. So, why does it matter anyway?
I guess it helps understanding your point of view better.
You and I grew up only 1000 kms and 1 year apart. It would be nice if you'd like to answer my question :smiley:
WildRanger, I have a very honest question for you. Changing the perspective, have you ever considered what an actually wonderful thing is the way appreciation fluctuates depending on cultures, areas, and eras?
Where's the fun in discussing rock'n'roll if everything succeeded (or blowed) the same way everywhere in any time?
-
And, while you can find my info by checking my profile, I'm 51 and in southern California.
I'm 39 and in Netherlands. So, why does it matter anyway?
It matters a lot.
-
I am 46 and from North Carolina, although I sometimes dream that I am 11,347 and from ancient Sumeria.
-
I'm 34 from Jersey! :lol
Dude, you may have missed it but I posted a ska punk album in the 'What album' thread asking for your opinion. It's an album called Got the Thirst by King Prawn. Check it :metal
Edit: sorry to derail the thread further :lol
I'll have to look, I don't think I've read that thread
-
I'm 39 and in Netherlands. So, why does it matter anyway?
Since I asked, and as I stated, I'm trying to understand your POV. Just to get a feel of where you're coming from. You are making statements about happenings decades ago, and was wondering if you actually experienced that time.
-
I'm 39 and in Netherlands. So, why does it matter anyway?
Since I asked, and as I stated, I'm trying to understand your POV. Just to get a feel of where you're coming from. You are making statements about happenings decades ago, and was wondering if you actually experienced that time.
This is about the best explanation I can think of.
It also puts comments like this in perspective: "If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it. Most American rock fans also never heard an album 'Deep Purple in Rock' in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal."
I'll ask the question again: What makes you think you have the slightest clue what "most American rock fans" have and haven't heard of? And, since you've now told us you're not in England (which I think most of us already inferred based on your writing style), what makes you think you know what "a metal kid . . . growing up in Britain" is or isn't familiar with"?
-
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but I think part of the problem with Motorhead is that they were kinda stuck between genres. They didn't really like being associated with Metal but to this day they are usually lumped in with the NWOBHM. They had a punk edge to them but never were really embraced by the Punk community and they were way too rough around the edges for blues rock fans. I imagine it was hard for them to carve out a niche because of this. They managed to ride the Metal wave in America for a very short time but, because they're not really a Metal band, they weren't able to stick around when the genre really exploded in the 80s.
-
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but I think part of the problem with Motorhead is that they were kinda stuck between genres. They didn't really like being associated with Metal but to this day they are usually lumped in with the NWOBHM. They had a punk edge to them but never were really embraced by the Punk community and they were way too rough around the edges for blues rock fans. I imagine it was hard for them to carve out a niche because of this. They managed to ride the Metal wave in America for a very short time but, because they're not really a Metal band, they weren't able to stick around when the genre really exploded in the 80s.
So it took a year and 3 pages to get there, but I think this is pretty solid. They really were an odd duck. Myself, I really dig Motörhead, but I never just put on their albums or anything. That kind of applies to everybody else I know. Everybody likes them, but nobody loves them.
The reality is that there's just no telling why some bands hit it off in one location and not another. There's currently another (much less maligned) discussion about why Queen disappeared in the US during the '80s. Who really knows? I was amazed to learn that Van Halen opened for Bon Jovi in Europe, since for all of my existence VH was always a top tier act. Europeans ignored them, apparently. Who knew. Maiden was wildly popular in the US back in the 80s, and while their popularity has skyrocketed elsewhere it's diminished here a great deal hear. They do US tours that are smaller than their Texas tours back in the day. I've never seen Saxon play larger than a 1k theater here, and now it's more like 350, but they get solid billing at festivals overseas. For half his life Japanese girls were throwing their Hello Kitty pantsu at Phil Mogg, but UFO has never enjoyed any success here. Best answer for any of this is simply that it bees that ways sometimes.
I saw them on the Operation Rock And Roll Tour in 1991.
Stadler, how did you miss that tour??
Holy shit. I saw that tour, and apparently repressed the entire memory. Every once in a while I'm reminded that I saw something, to my surprise, and it always trips me out.
Might have been the Orgasmatron tour. I remember being back in the concourse area hearing the song and thinking "God damn, that's pretty cool."
-
Bart, it was the 1916 tour.