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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Prog Snob on January 07, 2017, 12:39:10 PM
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Is it a modicum of morality or the fear of getting caught? What if a loved one was in danger of being a victim of their mortality? Would you be able to do what it takes or would the guilt of taking another life be too much?
I think it depends on one's morals. Their delusions. Their ignorances. Their inability to grasp the reality of things. The thought that everybody is equal and deserves to be treated the same. That all lives carry the same weight. Unfortunately, things aren't that simple. What it does is create instability in the grand scheme of things. It creates poor judgment and also affects how one perceives themselves. Their moral compass, so to speak, loses its magnetic north and spins out of control. Doing so prevents them from thinking clearly, thinking rationally.
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Because it's wrong.
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Aside from the fact that I do feel it is wrong, and can't imagine a situation where it would benefit me any (unless my killing them would stop their harming/killing my family), I am not a very good criminal. I would get caught easily, and having been in jail for a few stints, I have no desire to do another, much longer one.
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I just try and treat people the way I want to be treated. That's kind of my only rule. And once I were to cross that line, there's no going back. It would forever be on my mind.
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Because it's wrong.
Yes. I couldn't take a life. I can't even kill bugs. I'm a big baby. Plus the unbelievable guilt you would get afterwards.
Have you ever had a murder dream or one where you've done something awful and the police are after you...
The guilt and shame are awful and the relief when you wake up is amazing.
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I just try and treat people the way I want to be treated.
Yes. I couldn't take a life. I can't even kill bugs. I'm a big baby.
That's pretty much the same two reasons for me.
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My laziness outweighs my anger. Murdering someone and then covering it up so you don't get caught takes a lot of work and I sometimes would rather be hungry than get up to put food in the microwave.
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Plus if TV and Movies are to believed - Forensics and the FBI / CIA etc etc. I'm sure any attempt to cover up a murder will be found out eventually.
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Little from column A, little from column B. By and large I'm a pretty peaceful guy, and I tend not to judge others. Moreover, damn near everybody has a family or somebody that loves them, and I'm a pretty compassionate guy. At the same time I'm highly adept at rationalizing. If there's a reason somebody needs to die then so be it, and I won't feel any guilt about it. That's where The Man has his say.
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Plus if TV and Movies are to believed - Forensics and the FBI / CIA etc etc. I'm sure any attempt to cover up a murder will be found out eventually.
Not even close.
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No?
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Because it's wrong.
For someone who has a degree in psychology, your view on this is disappointingly binary. Is that what they taught you?
Little from column A, little from column B. By and large I'm a pretty peaceful guy, and I tend not to judge others. Moreover, damn near everybody has a family or somebody that loves them, and I'm a pretty compassionate guy. At the same time I'm highly adept at rationalizing. If there's a reason somebody needs to die then so be it, and I won't feel any guilt about it. That's where The Man has his say.
I am more inclined to agree with your rationality here. Being reasonable has a its advantages. The most brilliant of minds can rationalize just about any behavior and do it with such finesse that it makes one wonder if they are justified. Like John Doe in Seven or Jigsaw, you can't help but understand their points of view and agree with them to a certain degree.
Plus if TV and Movies are to believed - Forensics and the FBI / CIA etc etc. I'm sure any attempt to cover up a murder will be found out eventually.
That's where television and movies mislead people. Do you think there is someone like Gil Grissom out there, solving cases in record times? Read some books by Kathy Reichs (the real life Bones forensic anthropologist), and you'll see what it's really like. Read some true crime non-fiction books. Read books about serial killers. It's ridiculously hard to catch a murdered. The odds will increase with the more people you kill that you could get caught but with killing one person it's perfectly conceivable to get away with it.
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Because it's wrong.
For someone who has a degree in psychology, your view on this is disappointingly binary. Is that what they taught you?
Well no, because I didn't learn that killing was wrong in grad school or college.
Sure, sometimes killing is a necessary evil, as in the case of killing someone who poses an imminent threat and there's no other way of neutralizing that threat. Could I live with doing that? Hell if I know. Hopefully I'll never have to find out.
And to your other points, understanding the motive of a murderer and even agreeing with some of their ideas does not equate agreeing or justifying it. I would know this too, I wrote a whole thesis examining why certain people kill or perform violent acts. I wasn't justifying it though, even if I totally understood it.
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Maybe these TV shows and movies propagate the stereotype that Forensics and the CIA etc can get evidence from anything in an attempt to ward off potential murderers :biggrin:
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Well no, because I didn't learn that killing was wrong in grad school or college.
Then how can you capriciously say it's wrong when every incident deserves a unique focus?
Sure, sometimes killing is a necessary evil, as in the case of killing someone who poses an imminent threat and there's no other way of neutralizing that threat. Could I live with doing that? Hell if I know. Hopefully I'll never have to find out.
You never know. You just might have to some day.
And to your other points, understanding the motive of a murderer and even agreeing with some of their ideas does not equate agreeing or justifying it. I would know this too, I wrote a whole thesis examining why certain people kill or perform violent acts. I wasn't justifying it though, even if I totally understood it.
Sometimes it deserves that extra effort to warrant justification. Ignoring that is not giving the topic the proper attention.
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Edit: Nevermind, nonconstructive comment.
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Maybe these TV shows and movies propagate the stereotype that Forensics and the CIA etc can get evidence from anything in an attempt to ward off potential murderers :biggrin:
Nah, if anything they're making smarter killers. But the truth is if you're not an obvious suspect, ex-husband, disgruntled employee, sole beneficiary, etc, you've got a pretty decent chance of getting away with it. Most murders are done by people who aren't thinking and they get busted pretty easily. The ones that know what they're doing get nicked because of luck of an exceptionally talented investigatory team, which is the sort of thing that makes for good television. If that Gil Grissom character throws his hands up and says "well, I'm stumped. Let's move on to the next case" every other episode who'd watch the show?
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I'm closest to el Barto on this, but for slightly different reasons. It's partly because I don't feel a human has the capability of determining something as final as purposefully and willfully taking someone else's life. I'm good at rationalizing too, which is where war and things like that come in, but I just feel like it's beyond my ken to know all the facts necessary to end someone's life. I could very easily, though, administer a deep beating if necessary.
Two, I don't want to get caught. I know better than to think that every 14,000 person town has their own Gil Grissom - some STATES don't even have their own Gil Grissom - but luck and circumstance have their power too. I was on a jury about a year or so ago, and did you know that guns only retain a finger print (reliably) about 5% of the time? And yet on TV, guy farts in the crime scene room, and they're able to extract DNA from the gas molecules, run it through the database of the entire U.S. and get a response in 15 minutes. I have no doubt that I can commit a crime and get away with it, but there are always the random variables, and I am not willing to take that chance. Nor is there any person on this planet that I would trust with knowing what I did (not necessarily because I don't trust THEM, though that is 99.9% of the population, but those that I could trust I wouldn't want to burden with that knowledge).
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Who's Gil Grissom?
Anyway, even killing my worst enemy is not worth me spending the rest of my life in jail. If there's no chance in getting caught, no. It's not cool.
But in defense of my wife and kids, I pray I have the strength to do it.
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I was on a jury about a year or so ago, and did you know that guns only retain a finger print (reliably) about 5% of the time? .
Did they enhance the image?
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Whilst he pulled the trigger - he shouted " I, JOHN SMITH KILL YOU !! " and they put the gun on a record player and it had recorded his voice in the barrel of the gun.
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I never want to kill someone. Beat the fuck out of someone? Hell yeah. If the person dies it wouldn't be done on purpose.
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I never want to kill someone. Beat the fuck out of someone? Hell yeah. If the person dies it wouldn't be done on purpose.
So no problem with Manslaughter? ;D
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No. You never know if you go to far in the moment but I'm passed the fighting days.
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I have a phobic-caliber fear of violence. The casual school yard fights were one thing, but the sheer out to destroy someone level of violence makes my anxiety levels shoot through the roof. There was one night where I saw a dude get shot on the street, and it took me a week to get out of that total panic state. I'm pretty sure I could never get to the point where killing someone was an issue.
Unless we go to a point where I relapse and kill someone in a drunk driving incident. That is a possibility.
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Edit: I somehow missed TAC's comment. Well...I guess if you just don't care if you go too far or are at least uncaring of the thought that you might go too far simply because it will be "in the moment" is an answer of sorts. I'll keep my comments below though.
I never want to kill someone. Beat the fuck out of someone? Hell yeah. If the person dies it wouldn't be done on purpose.
I won't comment too much, someone like me wouldn't add much to the conversation given my moral depravity and willingness to become feral in the flicker of a heartbeat if need be but this comment confuses the hell out of me. Before that I'll finish the on topic conversation and frankly say that I'm a pacifist until I'm not. I'm certainly not a violent person in my day-to-day and I don't start fights ever, but if provoked or if I need to defend myself or someone I love, my capacity for violence and further is immense. Basically prison is the answer to the topic, plain and simple.
Back to the quoted. So...killing someone = Oh, never! Beating someone so badly that they might die (but it's a total accident if they do die) = FUCK YEAH BOIIII!
:huh: :huh: Did I miss the sarcasm or are you that uh...I don't even know the word. And mind you, I'm not looking for an ad hominem here or trying to be rude, I'm actually trying to think of a good descriptor. Morally ambiguous, perhaps? I mean, to me there are things in this life worse than death. Being beaten so badly you have to drink out of a straw or are so horribly scarred and screwed up that you lose pretty much any sense of sociability ever again is probably one of those things. That, along with the possibility that it's pretty darn easy to kill a human even if you continuously punch them in the face...it's really interesting that the idea of killing is (seemingly) horrible to you but beating someone so badly you might kill them isn't... I'm wondering if there's an actual idea behind that or if it's really just as simple as "Oops, I killed him on accident" with no thought to the idea that, brass tacks, you really didn't have any regard for his life even if you didn't actively go in to kill him. Which is part of the reason why the conviction of "manslaughter" exists.
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I like to reference Gandalf, via Professor Tolkien:
"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
I do not feel I, or anyone, is of worthy status to determine the value of another's existence and to give or take it away. If I could not handle the loss of one I love, what right would I have to deprive another of someone they might love. A permanent reaction to a temporary situation is beyond extreme to me.
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Empathy, basically. I don't want someone to kill me so I am not killing other people. Empathy, as it turns out, covers most of your bases.
As has been stated, if someone was posing a threat to the life of myself or my family and there was no other way to stop them, I think I could kill them at that point. As far as what sort of psychological damage that might do I have know idea.
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Because the voices in my head always get tired and take a break before they push me over the edge :|
Nah, I'm very anti-confrontation, couldn't imagine ever doing that. I couldn't even stick with karate as a kid once we moved beyond learning the basics and started sparring with each other.
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Apart from not wanting to do all the grunt work of cleaning up after myself and having to live with the guilt of killing someone, the first thought that jumped in my mind is I don't think I could deal with the look in their eyes when I go in to kill them and I never thought I'd have to type that, but man. I would break down crying when I see the terror in their eyes.... I couldn't do it. Essentially, I don't feel like I could live with myself.
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If I really hated someone who did something unspeakable - I would SOOOO much rather fuck with them psychologically.
Instead of death - make their remaining days an utter misery.
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I couldn't kill anyway. I have a hard time killing insects so killing someone randomly would just not be something I think I could do.
Now if I was in danger and it was a me or him type scenario then I would be able to take a life.
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I've never had the desire or motive to hurt or kill anyone. Not sure what could create that desire and there are only a handful of motives that are morally justifiable. Even if I had to defend myself or my family I wouldn't *want* to be in that situation but I suppose if someone is trying to kill me I'm going to do whatever I can to prevent that from happening. I do not think I would feel guilty about it, but I don't know, never been in that situation.
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The only way I would intentionally kill someone would be in self defense...If mine or a loved ones life was in danger.
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I mean, to me there are things in this life worse than death. Being beaten so badly you have to drink out of a straw or are so horribly scarred and screwed up that you lose pretty much any sense of sociability ever again is probably one of those things.
But - and see Hyperplex's comment right below yours (which I agree with 100%) - that's my point. How do you KNOW it's worse? We don't. It might be, it probably is, but who knows? I realize we're both drawing lines, just in different places, but for me, it's that "spark of life" that matters. I've seen people shoot arrows with a bow with no hands or arms, so we have a resilience as humans that is amazing. I don't know of anyone yet that has been resilient to death in any absolute way.
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This is an interesting question and I'm actually afraid to give my honest response :lol I'll just leave it at that.
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I never want to kill someone. Beat the fuck out of someone? Hell yeah. If the person dies it wouldn't be done on purpose.
So no problem with Manslaughter? ;D
You can't have "manslaughter" without "laughter".
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damnit coz now I read it as mans laugther.
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lol
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To stop means I must have started and I have never come close to wanting to kill someone. The only way I could see myself doing so is in self defense and I feel like even then I would try to not kill such a person.
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The only way I would intentionally kill someone would be in self defense...If mine or a loved ones life was in danger.
That exception is all it takes. It proves that instinct is inside us. What if it was a child that wasn't related to you? What if you had to step in or watch one die?
To stop means I must have started and I have never come close to wanting to kill someone. The only way I could see myself doing so is in self defense and I feel like even then I would try to not kill such a person.
You get lost in that moment. Trying not to isn't an option you will have time to consider. You just react until you think the problem has been diffused. How that ends isn't something you can predict.
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Because killing is wrong. And bad. Killing is badong.
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What an odd thread topic.
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There are few reasons for me. Classic DTF ranking time!
1. Empathy. The thought of personally ending another human's life is just terrible to me. Who am I to take another life?
2. I'm not religious, but on some level, I do believe killing is wrong. Like Adami said, it's like of necessary at times or at least unavoidable, but I'd like to avoid it if at all possible.
3. Any kind of physical trauma kind of grosses me out. If I had to bash someone's head in, I'd probably faint. :lol
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sCNH_sBvCWg/U2BKo1SISjI/AAAAAAAAA9c/F6yjD0rkhhk/s1600/becauseitswrong.gif.)
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I have never once, in any real or practical scenario, had any desire whatsoever to kill a human being. Strong dislike, sure. Wanting to punch someone in the face, sure. But that's it.