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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chino on October 22, 2015, 06:21:57 AM
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My girlfriend works as an admissions counselor for a university in CT. Her job is basically to convince anyone showing interest in the school to enroll, and then she holds their hand through the enrollment process.
She just sent me the following. It's a text conversation she had just before she left yesterday.
Girlfriend: Sounds good. Just make sure you really research all of the schools you are considering. A quick Google search about their accreditation is highly recommended.
Potential Student: word. i do ur a new england credited. wut?
Girlfriend: Yes. That's correct. New England Association of Schools and College.
Potential Student: This aint england. this its usa. dis is a scam
She gets about 100 of people just like this a day. How in the actual fuck does this person get out of high school? This person needs to be entering the third grade or making hats.
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Because every one passes in high school unless the student chooses to drop out. NO ONE CAN BE LEFT BEHIND!!!!!
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Besides the stupidity, who texts someone in a non personal/friendly conversation that way? Even if the New England thing wasnt the stupidity, that text is just god awful.
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Besides the stupidity, who texts someone in a non personal/friendly conversation that way? Even if the New England thing wasnt the stupidity, that text is just god awful.
That's actually pretty normal. Some of the stuff she receives is appalling.
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Besides the stupidity, who texts someone in a non personal/friendly conversation that way? Even if the New England thing wasnt the stupidity, that text is just god awful.
That's actually pretty normal. Some of the stuff she receives is appalling.
So sad and discouraging.
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Check out this list of first names. She's had to communicate with everyone on this list.
Acacia
Aijalon
Aixa
Aleathea
Aniesha
Anonda
Antavious
Antorrie
Aredrianna
Arkanya
Armether
Astacia
Athalene
Brendaliz
Briyonna
Bronica
Cardarius
Cazan
Cedtrineya
Chantry
Charissa
Charisse
Charkil
Charla
Chawayntha
Chevela
Chintell
Contina
Damonte
Darneisha
Davonte
De’erin
Deithrea
Deshonia
Dontae
Dynesha
Evanlis (the n is si-lent)
Gracious
Hi-Dro
Inonge
Ishaque
Jabrine
Jaleesa
Janaan
Janasia
Jaycee
Jaysun
Juandolyn
Juandria
Kadeesha
Karama
Kasual (pronounced casual)
Keandreal
Keneffria
Kentrell
Kerline
Keyasha
Khaleel
Kiantay
Kiara
La Nikah
Lacresha
Ladarrin
Laethel
Lakeisha
Lakenya
Lakisha
Laquavia
Lashawna
Lashonda
Lashunda
Lavieth
Lyneice
Mahonganie
Malika
Mandrail
Markita
Marquise
Marquitta
Martrell
Musse
Myinka
Mylove
Nafeesa
Nahalia
Nakeya
Nakishewa
Natarsha
Nekiyia
Neshia
Nichelle
Niesha
Norvia
Qawie
Quatwana
Quinlon
Quovatas
R’chard (pro-nounced ra-shard)
Razia
Reaunna
Remondre
Roimari
Rondell-Dayzon
Rontavious
Saniqua
Selinette
Sequitia
Sequitia
Shabreca
Shai-kela
Shameeka
Shamika
Shandrevis
Shanice
Shaquille
Shaundreka
Shawntaveria
Shelean
Shellonda
Shelvis
Shenika
Shyderial
Spurgin
Stephone
Stormi
Suncilray
Tabu
Taishika
Talicia
Talisha
Tamarcus
Tamika
Tanisha
Tanjanique
Tariq
Tawana
Tenneil
Terasa
Terinette
Tervina
Tinequa
Tonika
Traynham
Trikhina
Tyleicia
Tyniesha
Tyquasha
Vaschon
Wynikia
Ziyeka
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Obligatory:
(https://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5426/original/1200.jpg)
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I do feel the need to say that this whole thing is a result of myriad socio-political forces, and while it is funny from an outside perspective, it is also very sad and genuinely needs fixing.
I went to a high school where nearly 60 percent of the students could not read on grade level and more than that were not at grade level for math. American public education is in total disarray and it amounts to a hell of a lot more than just "lol uneducated black people with weird names."
edit: This isn't to say it isn't really funny. In high school, I took a community college philosophy course, and after it, I became Facebook friends with the professor. He posts (anonymously, obviously) the worst parts of essays he receives and some of them are fucking hilarious. Case in point:
"Within this argumentative essay objectivism will be explained is to what it is and why it is moral for humans to find and have happiness in everyday life, then to give examples of different types of objectivism in a person's life then how it pertains to happiness, last to argue why objectivism is to make someone happy and to reach his or her goals in life with there always being reality in the way."
"What makes legality good is that it doesn't only benefit one person it benefits all. .Without legality society would not have all these problems occurring today with people going against rules. Legality creates other laws and rules that benefit society as a whole."
"I think ethics are objective because no one can influence a person’s moral values. For example, my morals and ethics could never be influenced or changed."
"Hello professor,
You accidentally gave me a wrong final grade. You Gave me a C+ but it is supposed to be an A. Thank you!"
" This affect, all of us because we all work the same way and we all need two know how are world functions so we destroy it also, knowing where we came from and how we came about, and lets us know about are future knowing about the big bang lets us know about the end of the world too."
and my personal favorite:
"Another fact that prizes me is that always say that god always take the good one's but why would he take the good people wouldn't it be best to keep them here to do more good? My uncle who was a great man that loved everything about life always try to do right by others especially his family. He died young, didn't even get to see age fifty, why did he had to die. My baby sister that was only six months and didn't even get a chance to known life had to die. I don't understand why good people have to die young, it is because god needed them in heaven to do his work?"
The point is that laughing at all this stuff is well and good, but it is also really sad and unfortunate and needs to be changed.
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^^ truth.
As someone who came up through the public education system in Mississippi I can certainly attest to that. School buses that've been around for way to long and frequently break down, handing out bibles to everyone as they come into the school and not teaching evolution, forcing teachers to take stupidly large classes due to a lack of resources, on and on and on. I'm not trying to make excuses, only highlight some issues.
If they're anything like me, many of these ignorant kids have probably grown up feeling helpless vis-a-vis their education, and the system only reinforces that.
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I don't disagree that it is a joint effort, but some of this is on the people, too, and by that I mean the students and their parents. There's an underlying theme over the past ten, fifteen years or so, that reinforces the individual to a scary degree. People have this notion that whatever they do, whatever they think, whatever they put out there is equal, valid, and of consequence, and isn't. It just isn't. Yeah, maybe this mindset applies when you're dealing with being homosexual or not, but it doesn't apply across the board.
"I don't need to read "Grapes of Wrath"; it doesn't have anything to do with MY experience!" Yes, but if you read it, you know what good writing skills sound like, and you'd have a slightly broader wealth of experience to draw from. Not everything needs to be about the people on your block.
"School isn't for me. It's hard, so I'm taking a different approach". Ok, but life is hard. Raising kids is hard. Disciplining them and making sure they make decent decisions (or have the tools to make decent decisions) is hard. So? We shouldn't be able to opt out of anything that isn't smack in our wheelhouse, especially when we're too young to even have a wheelhouse.
I can't believe that a parent can't read that and see there is something wrong. They may not know what it is, but at least know something is wrong. This isn't about "evolution" vs. "creation"; it's way more simple than that. At least if the kids were reading that bible that was given to them, they'd understand that "what u b doon, brah" is not an appropriate way to communicate with someone that you are hoping to convince to help you.
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I can agree with all of that. And to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that this is as simple as an issue of what's being taught in schools (i.e. evolution vs creation), only use that as one example of what I might label a red flag. If I'm muslim in that school, I certainly could read the Bible and get something out of it. But I'd also feel potentially marginalized and offended.
And while I know this is a hackneyed argument, it's worth pointing out that unfortunately a lot of parents simply can't and won't be there every step of the way to help their children and encourage good and bad habits. Many will never be able to read that message and say something is wrong, because a lot of them are out working overtime at some shitty job to put food on the table.
On the general premise though, I absolutely agree. Education *should* start in the home, with the parents and the kids.
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Hi-Dro? That's just fucking priceless.
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Hi-Dro is my middle name.
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Is that pronounced "hidashdro"?
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Is that pronounced "hidashdro"?
No, it's "Hee hyphen drow"
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Hi-Dro? That's just fucking priceless.
My wife has had a student who's name was spelled La-a. What/how would you say that?
Her name is La (dash) a La-a = "Ladasha"
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i gained a lot of self-confidence in high school and college when i thought my essays were bad then we had to proofread everyone else's and 90% of them were way worse than mine
what the heck is wrong with education in america
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i gained a lot of self-confidence in high school and college when i thought my essays were bad then we had to proofread everyone else's and 90% of them were way worse than mine
what the heck is wrong with education in america
1) Common Core / Standardized testing
2) Cities so poor that tax revenue can't be generated / the schools have no budget
3) Parents suck and then try to sue the school when their kid doesn't accomplish anything
4) Single parent households where they one parent has multiple children and multiple jobs
5) An environment that makes children hate school from a young age rather than making them excited to learn new things
6) For profit colleges
7) Children don't understand the value of an education (or at least vocab decent enough to not sound like the guy in the OP) until they have to start paying bills.
8) Celebrated ignorance
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I honestly put a lot of blame on parents personally. Maybe that is harsh as I am not a parent so I am taking shots from an ivory tower, but from my friend who is a teacher and my x who is a school psychologist, the parental stories are ridiculous and totally intrusive to their child's education. And a lot of that comes from the entitlement.
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I'd say that the parents are the biggest contributor to the problem.
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Hi-Dro is my middle name.
Fo-sho?
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Hi-Dro? That's just fucking priceless.
My wife has had a student who's name was spelled La-a. What/how would you say that?
Her name is La (dash) a La-a = "Ladasha"
My company had a customer with a first name pronounced "Ab-sid-ee."
It was spelled Abcde.
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The original "Letters".
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This thread is just convincing me further that people need to earn the right to procreate.
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My girlfriend works as an admissions counselor for a university in CT. Her job is basically to convince anyone showing interest in the school to enroll, and then she holds their hand through the enrollment process.
She just sent me the following. It's a text conversation she had just before she left yesterday.
Girlfriend: Sounds good. Just make sure you really research all of the schools you are considering. A quick Google search about their accreditation is highly recommended.
Potential Student: word. i do ur a new england credited. wut?
Girlfriend: Yes. That's correct. New England Association of Schools and College.
Potential Student: This aint england. this its usa. dis is a scam
She gets about 100 of people just like this a day. How in the actual fuck does this person get out of high school? This person needs to be entering the third grade or making hats.
Oh dear, Jesus! :facepalm:
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This thread is just convincing me further that people need to earn the right to procreate.
I don't agree.
But I understand.
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Idiocracy is real.
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Speaking from an ivory tower has made me realise one thing only...
:emo: i've murdered a fuck load of elephants.
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Speaking from an ivory tower has made me realise one thing only...
:emo: i've murdered a fuck load of elephants.
This boards never ceases to confuse me.
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Why? SMF is pretty straight forward.
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i gained a lot of self-confidence in high school and college when i thought my essays were bad then we had to proofread everyone else's and 90% of them were way worse than mine
what the heck is wrong with education in america
1) Common Core / Standardized testing
2) Cities so poor that tax revenue can't be generated / the schools have no budget
3) Parents suck and then try to sue the school when their kid doesn't accomplish anything
4) Single parent households where they one parent has multiple children and multiple jobs
5) An environment that makes children hate school from a young age rather than making them excited to learn new things
6) For profit colleges
7) Children don't understand the value of an education (or at least vocab decent enough to not sound like the guy in the OP) until they have to start paying bills.
8) Celebrated ignorance
You forgot the "participation trophies" environment.
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I must have come from a really good area. My essays were good in comparison to my class (and still are in college), but there were so many kids in the AP programs not getting any sleep from studying all the god damn time (I was never in any AP classes, couple of pre-APs that meant nothing except a slightly higher GPA). It just baffled me how many people could live their live without.. living life.
Parents are definitely the problem. If someone has a child, they (both parents) should go through a mandatory, free class (possibly during the first paid maternal/family leave?) that goes through some of the things parents can do right and wrong, and show multiple good methods of raising the child.
When I hear a kid crying and hear the mom go "Stop crying, that's so ANNOYING" I want to just replace that kid's mom with my mom
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Why? SMF is pretty straight forward.
I lol'd
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I can agree with all of that. And to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that this is as simple as an issue of what's being taught in schools (i.e. evolution vs creation), only use that as one example of what I might label a red flag. If I'm muslim in that school, I certainly could read the Bible and get something out of it. But I'd also feel potentially marginalized and offended.
And while I know this is a hackneyed argument, it's worth pointing out that unfortunately a lot of parents simply can't and won't be there every step of the way to help their children and encourage good and bad habits. Many will never be able to read that message and say something is wrong, because a lot of them are out working overtime at some shitty job to put food on the table.
On the general premise though, I absolutely agree. Education *should* start in the home, with the parents and the kids.
Please understand, I am not picking on you, but some of what you write is part of the problem. This notion of "marginalizing": it's a fabrication for people who's agenda is based on the minority. I look back when I was a kid, and I probably was "marginalized" in the sense that you are using the word, but in that case ignorance is bliss.
Do the math: if you worry about marginalizing someone on every single issue (can't show same-race, male-female couples, because mixed race and gay couples will be marginalized. Can't show nuclear families, because integrated families will be marginalized.) then by definition, EVERY student will feel marginalized by something. That's not the solution. It's the old "to a hammer, everything is a nail" syndrome. It's not up to the schools to teach diversity (and I mean that in the broadest sense). It is up to the parents. Sure, some won't do that, but most will, and those that don't will feel the consequences without being "shamed" by the schools into driving politically correct behavior.
School's job is to communicate information, period. Be a resource, like a book in a library. Not coach them into scoring high on a specific test so that the community can get more federal tax dollars. That's a self-defeating proposition (and by the way, there is no direct cause and effect - though there is some correlation - between "more money" and "better performance").
It's getting dated now, but "Dumbing Down Our Kids" by Charles somebody is must reading for this discussion.
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I can agree with all of that. And to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that this is as simple as an issue of what's being taught in schools (i.e. evolution vs creation), only use that as one example of what I might label a red flag. If I'm muslim in that school, I certainly could read the Bible and get something out of it. But I'd also feel potentially marginalized and offended.
And while I know this is a hackneyed argument, it's worth pointing out that unfortunately a lot of parents simply can't and won't be there every step of the way to help their children and encourage good and bad habits. Many will never be able to read that message and say something is wrong, because a lot of them are out working overtime at some shitty job to put food on the table.
On the general premise though, I absolutely agree. Education *should* start in the home, with the parents and the kids.
Please understand, I am not picking on you, but some of what you write is part of the problem. This notion of "marginalizing": it's a fabrication for people who's agenda is based on the minority. I look back when I was a kid, and I probably was "marginalized" in the sense that you are using the word, but in that case ignorance is bliss.
Do the math: if you worry about marginalizing someone on every single issue (can't show same-race, male-female couples, because mixed race and gay couples will be marginalized. Can't show nuclear families, because integrated families will be marginalized.) then by definition, EVERY student will feel marginalized by something. That's not the solution. It's the old "to a hammer, everything is a nail" syndrome. It's not up to the schools to teach diversity (and I mean that in the broadest sense). It is up to the parents. Sure, some won't do that, but most will, and those that don't will feel the consequences without being "shamed" by the schools into driving politically correct behavior.
School's job is to communicate information, period. Be a resource, like a book in a library. Not coach them into scoring high on a specific test so that the community can get more federal tax dollars. That's a self-defeating proposition (and by the way, there is no direct cause and effect - though there is some correlation - between "more money" and "better performance").
It's getting dated now, but "Dumbing Down Our Kids" by Charles somebody is must reading for this discussion.
Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up marginalization, because the issue that I was briefly touching on in the bible example was actually much larger than that. Most likely my fault for doing so. Or maybe you'll disagree?
Are you suggesting that using depictions of same-race, male-female couples (or nuclear families) is an issue on the same level as public schools handing out bibles (and bibles only) in a supposedly secular state? Or that maybe that's the path we're on if we take issue with the latter? Or something else entirely? For now, I'm sensing either false equivalence or slippery slope. But it's absolutely possible that I've misunderstood.
I mean look, I'm very sympathetic to the issue of constant preoccupation with offending anyone and I wholeheartedly agree with the specific examples you mentioned. I know, from personal experience, that this PC on steroids (for lack of a better phrase) can be very problematic and (ironically) marginalizing to anyone with an unpopular opinion. However, I'm not on board with your examples as they relate to mine. Or maybe I should say, I'm not sure they're entirely relevant to the larger point I was originally trying to make. Which at the end of the day was not so much an issue of marginalization as it was of poor education (i.e. greatly limiting the resources in the library, if I can borrow your analogy). It just so happens that in this case, the things that might marginalize a young atheist boy (or what have you) are also actively obstructing the communication of information which the school should stand for.
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As someone who came up through the public education system in Mississippi
and you're literate? Thank Jesus its a miracle!
More on point, I saw it even in college. I had a student write me a "Table of Context" (pic is in my facebook account if you care to see and are friends with me). I would like a table of context, it would make figuring out women so much easier.
I'll reply with more thoughts from my home computer.
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I can agree with all of that. And to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that this is as simple as an issue of what's being taught in schools (i.e. evolution vs creation), only use that as one example of what I might label a red flag. If I'm muslim in that school, I certainly could read the Bible and get something out of it. But I'd also feel potentially marginalized and offended.
And while I know this is a hackneyed argument, it's worth pointing out that unfortunately a lot of parents simply can't and won't be there every step of the way to help their children and encourage good and bad habits. Many will never be able to read that message and say something is wrong, because a lot of them are out working overtime at some shitty job to put food on the table.
On the general premise though, I absolutely agree. Education *should* start in the home, with the parents and the kids.
Please understand, I am not picking on you, but some of what you write is part of the problem. This notion of "marginalizing": it's a fabrication for people who's agenda is based on the minority. I look back when I was a kid, and I probably was "marginalized" in the sense that you are using the word, but in that case ignorance is bliss.
Do the math: if you worry about marginalizing someone on every single issue (can't show same-race, male-female couples, because mixed race and gay couples will be marginalized. Can't show nuclear families, because integrated families will be marginalized.) then by definition, EVERY student will feel marginalized by something. That's not the solution. It's the old "to a hammer, everything is a nail" syndrome. It's not up to the schools to teach diversity (and I mean that in the broadest sense). It is up to the parents. Sure, some won't do that, but most will, and those that don't will feel the consequences without being "shamed" by the schools into driving politically correct behavior.
School's job is to communicate information, period. Be a resource, like a book in a library. Not coach them into scoring high on a specific test so that the community can get more federal tax dollars. That's a self-defeating proposition (and by the way, there is no direct cause and effect - though there is some correlation - between "more money" and "better performance").
It's getting dated now, but "Dumbing Down Our Kids" by Charles somebody is must reading for this discussion.
Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up marginalization, because the issue that I was briefly touching on in the bible example was actually much larger than that. Most likely my fault for doing so. Or maybe you'll disagree?
Are you suggesting that using depictions of same-race, male-female couples (or nuclear families) is an issue on the same level as public schools handing out bibles (and bibles only) in a supposedly secular state? Or that maybe that's the path we're on if we take issue with the latter? Or something else entirely? For now, I'm sensing either false equivalence or slippery slope. But it's absolutely possible that I've misunderstood.
I mean look, I'm very sympathetic to the issue of constant preoccupation with offending anyone and I wholeheartedly agree with the specific examples you mentioned. I know, from personal experience, that this PC on steroids (for lack of a better phrase) can be very problematic and (ironically) marginalizing to anyone with an unpopular opinion. However, I'm not on board with your examples as they relate to mine. Or maybe I should say, I'm not sure they're entirely relevant to the larger point I was originally trying to make. Which at the end of the day was not so much an issue of marginalization as it was of poor education (i.e. greatly limiting the resources in the library, if I can borrow your analogy). It just so happens that in this case, the things that might marginalize a young atheist boy (or what have you) are also actively obstructing the communication of information which the school should stand for.
I think you finally hit on what I was trying to say in your last couple sentences. The handing out of the bible is wrong, but not because it's marginalizing. That's what I was saying. We shouldn't worry about marginalizing, but we should worry about what is the best possible tool, the best possible strategy, for teaching our kids in the short time (relatively speaking) they are in the classroom. Period.
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Hi-Dro? That's just fucking priceless.
My wife has had a student who's name was spelled La-a. What/how would you say that?
Her name is La (dash) a La-a = "Ladasha"
I came here to post this!!! My gf used to be a pediatric nurse and she had someone come in with the exact same name.
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Cannot read through everyone, but all had good points that I did look at.
With the OP and topic, I will comment that a lot of university degrees are about effort and time management. When I struggled in undergrad, a professor gave me just that observation; time management. The man was black/african-american, and had an accent for what it is worth. Sure, a person with borderline to intellectually disabled level IQ will not be a physician. Also though, an amount of poor skills result in poor education and support. John Mighton, who had a part in "Good Will Hunting," really pushes this concept. https://utoronto.academia.edu/mighton. Whether or not he is 100% correct I do not know- no 100% here anyway. But doing basic intelligence/cognition testing for my job, to me it is the case a lot of the time.
On the other hand, we used to assume that people in university have a certain level of maturity, and conversational ability. I feel that with the U.S. push of "degrees degrees degrees!", a lot of people who would not have gone to higher ed in the 50s do so in the 2000s. And as universities have expanded to take more in, as well as the for-profit University Predators, more situations like this occur.
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This person needs to be entering the third grade or making hats.
You think the person could program embroidery software? I highly doubt it.
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My girlfriend works as an admissions counselor for a university in CT.
What a coincidence! I'm applying my way out of this state and its godforsaken weather!
its big government is underrated tho, even if Malloy is a knucklehead
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My girlfriend works as an admissions counselor for a university in CT.
What a coincidence! I'm applying my way out of this state and its godforsaken weather!
its big government is underrated tho, even if Malloy is a knucklehead
My biggest problem with this state is that, while definitely decent, it's a lot worse off than the number lead you to believe. If you omitted the net worth and assets of the top 2% in this state, you'd see our standing compared to others drop significantly. We have so much money in Groton and along the coast that is skews reality for the rest of the state. The state doesn't have as much money as it appears to on paper.
The weather is good for college up here though. Snow days!
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Cannot read through everyone, but all had good points that I did look at.
With the OP and topic, I will comment that a lot of university degrees are about effort and time management. When I struggled in undergrad, a professor gave me just that observation; time management. The man was black/african-american, and had an accent for what it is worth. Sure, a person with borderline to intellectually disabled level IQ will not be a physician. Also though, an amount of poor skills result in poor education and support. John Mighton, who had a part in "Good Will Hunting," really pushes this concept. https://utoronto.academia.edu/mighton. Whether or not he is 100% correct I do not know- no 100% here anyway. But doing basic intelligence/cognition testing for my job, to me it is the case a lot of the time.
On the other hand, we used to assume that people in university have a certain level of maturity, and conversational ability. I feel that with the U.S. push of "degrees degrees degrees!", a lot of people who would not have gone to higher ed in the 50s do so in the 2000s. And as universities have expanded to take more in, as well as the for-profit University Predators, more situations like this occur.
Well, this person is APPLYING to college, didn't say they got in. I know for my school - a large state school that you've seen several times in the NCAA backetball championship game - it was my safety school back then, and today I'd be lucky to get in, because the number of seats hasn't changed, but the increased volume of applicants has allowed them to be more selective in who they take. I have faith in the college system (at least the accredited, well-regarded schools). It's the level before that bothers me.
I think what most people know intuitively but are afraid to say it in this PC culture we live in, but not only is a high school degree from 1950 not worth as much as a HSD today in terms of job opportunities, but a HSD of today is not worth as much as a HSD from 1950 in terms of what that student is prepared to do. In other words, we all agree that a HSD is not enough to today, but part of it is that the student graduating today is not as well-read and well-prepared across the board as the high school students of a half century ago. Yes, they know more about computers and Twatter and what not, but we've lost a level of problem-solving and issue analysis that only broad exposure to knowledge can bring. My stepdaughter is going to graduate in a couple months and she will have graduated without taking ANY physics, and with taking one chemistry class, that she failed. She is a smart kid, in all respects, but that is a woeful record of "well-rounded education" (and a large reason why my other daughter is in private school).
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Wow, how can one not take any physics and fail at the one opportunity for chemistry and still graduate? ANd that is not a knock on your daughter, but a knock on "what exactly are they teaching kids in school these days?"
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Wow, how can one not take any physics and fail at the one opportunity for chemistry and still graduate? ANd that is not a knock on your daughter, but a knock on "what exactly are they teaching kids in school these days?"
I never took a physics course or anything harder than algebra. I passed chemistry with D+. Granted, that was when I was in highschool and didn't do shit. I got a 100 in college level bio when I took it and a 92 in chemistry.
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Wow, how can one not take any physics and fail at the one opportunity for chemistry and still graduate? ANd that is not a knock on your daughter, but a knock on "what exactly are they teaching kids in school these days?"
I never took a physics course or anything harder than algebra. I passed chemistry with D+. Granted, that was when I was in highschool and didn't do shit. I got a 100 in college level bio when I took it and a 92 in chemistry.
Crazy (not how you did well in college lol) how physics isnt required, i thought it would have been. We had to take it in my high school.
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Wow, how can one not take any physics and fail at the one opportunity for chemistry and still graduate? ANd that is not a knock on your daughter, but a knock on "what exactly are they teaching kids in school these days?"
I never took a physics course or anything harder than algebra. I passed chemistry with D+. Granted, that was when I was in highschool and didn't do shit. I got a 100 in college level bio when I took it and a 92 in chemistry.
I know it is possible to graduate without taking higher level science and math, but it was very rare at my high school.
I took Algebra in 8th grade, Geometry in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th, Trig in 11th and AP Calculus in 12th. The average kids were 1 to 2 cycles behind me (so Algebra 2 in 12th). The dumb kids took *remedial math* to get their math credits. And this kids were f*cking stupid as all sh*t.
For science, I took Chemistry, AP Physics, Biology and passed on AP Biology because Biology is my least favorite science. It was supposed to go Biology, Chemistry, AP Physics, AP Biology, but the Biology classes were so full, they asked the kids further along in math to start with Chemistry and return to Biology later. Physics was easily the most rewarding of the science classes. Not even close. They didn't have "remedial science", so I'm almost positive you couldn't graduate without at least passing Biology and Chemistry.
My school was in a mostly lower class to some middle class zone, but the curriculum was some of the best in the country. The sad part is the guidance counselor was probably the worst in the country. She was new and clearly had no idea what she was doing. Thanks so much for training a guidance counselor at such a crucial time in my life. She and the administration that put her in that position should be taken to a dog shelter and put down. So many promising students that had to blindly find their way into college.
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College in this country is a fucking scam. Really, our entire education system is terrible.
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College in this country is a fucking scam. Really, our entire education system is terrible.
I wouldn't say its a scam, but it's certainly not worth the cost for everyone.
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College in this country is a fucking scam. Really, our entire education system is terrible.
Agree 100%.
The fact that an in-experienced teenager applying to college can get themselves $40,000+ dollars in debt for a Liberal arts degree is really something else. And i don't really blame the kids. How would they even know.
When I was growing up the attitude was "just go to college and then the job will follow", nobody ever said that a degree is an investment and doesn't guarantee a job. I wish someone would have just said "choose wisely when picking a major". I learned this lesson the hard way.
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College in this country is a fucking scam. Really, our entire education system is terrible.
Agree 100%.
The fact that an in-experienced teenager applying to college can get themselves $40,000+ dollars in debt for a Liberal arts degree is really something else. And i don't really blame the kids. How would they even know.
When I was growing up the attitude was "just go to college and then the job will follow", nobody ever said that a degree is an investment and doesn't guarantee a job. I wish someone would have just said "choose wisely when picking a major". I learned this lesson the hard way.
That's not college (in general) fault, it would seem no one properly advised you. I agree with the debt is likely not worth some liberal arts degrees, but thats why I said college isn't for everyone. I 100% believe it is not a scam though, many degrees are worth the money, including my own degree. I would not be able to get the job I have without it (it is not in liberal arts).
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I've been blessed in that my scholarships pay for everything, and I get $700 every semester extra. The issue is that among that is a $5500/year FAFSA loan that I'll eventually have to pay back. The problem with that is that I'm going to be a teacher.
God I hope Bernie Sanders is elected.
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I've been blessed in that my scholarships pay for everything, and I get $700 every semester extra. The issue is that among that is a $5500/year FAFSA loan that I'll eventually have to pay back. The problem with that is that I'm going to be a teacher.
God I hope Bernie Sanders is elected.
So 22k after 4 years... not bad at all and definitely something a teacher can pay off over time.
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https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect (https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect)
And shit like this is why our schools are failing :facepalm:
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Check out this list of first names. She's had to communicate with everyone on this list.
Most of these names I recognize, my friend, and they come from Arabic and Swahili backgrounds.
So yeah.
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https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect (https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect)
And shit like this is why our schools are failing :facepalm:
Holy. Cunting. Cupcakes.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Mentally deficient teachers teaching! :metal :metal :justjen
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That example is just so wrong and reminded me of something that happened in math class for me that actually helped turn my math around, I was always strong in math and was in honors math from 6th grade (as early as they offered it) until I did AP calc my senior year, except as a freshman I was in regular trigonometry. We had to do proofs on our exams, for one proof I got the question correct and full points, but my teacher asked to speak with me about it after class. He told me I was the only one in the class and only one he had seen to prove it correctly, but by doing it a completely different way than expected. It through him off, but he told me that I thought about it in such a different way and was still able to prove it right, he said I belonged in honor trig and helped push me back into honors math the next year which had a huge impact on me later passing my AP exam, getting into a great university, and getting an engineering degree. Something like that would NEVER happen with common core. That is so sad, I would have been marked wrong and who knows what would have happened as I look at that as a legitimate turning point in me learning math.
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It really is just utterly fucked. What you said and that picture are the differences between a good teacher and a piece of shit collecting a paycheck.
Thing is, even if it was a word problem that accurately explained to precisely solve the problem in that manner (even though it still absolutely does not matter, but let's play devil's advocate for a second), the way in which she 'corrected' the answer is so screwed. No explanation of why it was wrong, of why the student should have done it the way that the teacher solved, nothing. Just "nope, THIS is the right way". Fuck that. It's a big reason why I hated math because I usually did things differently as well even if I did get it right. Except I still wasn't fantastic at it, but that made those points I did lose for asinine, illogical reasons that much more important.
So fucking disheartening.
I'd also like to add that it *looks* like the kid does know how to group properly when it's explicitly explained and when it matters, in the problem on the bottom of the picture. It's cut off, but as it says in the word problem, it poses it in such a fashion that makes it sound like it wants you to write it out that specific way...which the student does. Clearly not an issue.
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I liked math quite a bit. It just seemed so logical that once you got it, you just kept getting it because it was a continual building block.
But I hated the "show your work" part of homework and tests with a passion. I don't recall ever being marked down for it (because the end answer was correct), but a few teachers loved to write in red pen "Show your work". If I found a way to do it in fewer steps or I can consolidate 2 to 3 steps in one step, that's a good thing. That was one of the most basic goals of math. Simplify things.
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When I was growing up the attitude was "just go to college and then the job will follow", nobody ever said that a degree is an investment and doesn't guarantee a job. I wish someone would have just said "choose wisely when picking a major". I learned this lesson the hard way.
I feel the same way, and was told the exact same thing, with the exact same results. Though I try not to blame my parents for it.
God I hope Bernie Sanders is elected.
So I can pay for people to go to college and get degrees that won't help them in any way in life? We don't need more people to go to college, especially at everyone else's expense.
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https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect (https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect)
And shit like this is why our schools are failing :facepalm:
Holy. Cunting. Cupcakes.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Mentally deficient teachers teaching! :metal :metal :justjen
Ugh, dunno man. I for one think that the purpose of the part of the test was understanding how to properly do 5x3 (which is 3+3+3+3+3, because it's, literally 5 TIMES 3), rather than just putting 15 as an answer. But I'm unsure as to how this would actually help when learning more advanced math.
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God I hope Bernie Sanders is elected.
So I can pay for people to go to college and get degrees that won't help them in any way in life? We don't need more people to go to college, especially at everyone else's expense.
Obviously this is something for p/r, but the man won't tax people for others to go to college, he's taxing wall street transactions for that (0.5% on all wall street transactions apparently pays more than enough for the program, and doesn't hurt the average person at all)
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https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect (https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect)
And shit like this is why our schools are failing :facepalm:
Holy. Cunting. Cupcakes.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Mentally deficient teachers teaching! :metal :metal :justjen
Ugh, dunno man. I for one think that the purpose of the part of the test was understanding how to properly do 5x3 (which is 3+3+3+3+3, because it's, literally 5 TIMES 3), rather than just putting 15 as an answer. But I'm unsure as to how this would actually help when learning more advanced math.
Funny, because it's totally the other way around in Russia as far as I know. 5x3 means you should take 5 and count it three times. Just like the guy did.
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https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect (https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect)
And shit like this is why our schools are failing :facepalm:
Holy. Cunting. Cupcakes.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Mentally deficient teachers teaching! :metal :metal :justjen
Ugh, dunno man. I for one think that the purpose of the part of the test was understanding how to properly do 5x3 (which is 3+3+3+3+3, because it's, literally 5 TIMES 3), rather than just putting 15 as an answer. But I'm unsure as to how this would actually help when learning more advanced math.
Funny, because it's totally the other way around in Russia as far as I know. 5x3 means you should take 5 and count it three times. Just like the guy did.
Either way should be just as acceptable in this context anyway, since it's only numbers. 5x3 doesn't indicate whether it's 5 lots of 3 things, or 3 lots of 5 things. And that second question is beyond BS. It angers me that any kid is being taught and judged this way, it's doing more harm than good to mark it as wrong and beat such an incredibly narrow approach into children. The kid very clearly understood the concept.
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https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect (https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/teacher-marks-child-s-55515-answer-incorrect)
And shit like this is why our schools are failing :facepalm:
Holy. Cunting. Cupcakes.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Mentally deficient teachers teaching! :metal :metal :justjen
Ugh, dunno man. I for one think that the purpose of the part of the test was understanding how to properly do 5x3 (which is 3+3+3+3+3, because it's, literally 5 TIMES 3), rather than just putting 15 as an answer. But I'm unsure as to how this would actually help when learning more advanced math.
Funny, because it's totally the other way around in Russia as far as I know. 5x3 means you should take 5 and count it three times. Just like the guy did.
Either way should be just as acceptable in this context anyway, since it's only numbers. 5x3 doesn't indicate whether it's 5 lots of 3 things, or 3 lots of 5 things. And that second question is beyond BS. It angers me that any kid is being taught and judged this way, it's doing more harm than good to mark it as wrong and beat such an incredibly narrow approach into children. The kid very clearly understood the concept.
Yeah, I agree. I guess it's things like this that can turn a kid off the subject.
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College in this country is a fucking scam. Really, our entire education system is terrible.
Agree 100%.
The fact that an in-experienced teenager applying to college can get themselves $40,000+ dollars in debt for a Liberal arts degree is really something else. And i don't really blame the kids. How would they even know.
When I was growing up the attitude was "just go to college and then the job will follow", nobody ever said that a degree is an investment and doesn't guarantee a job. I wish someone would have just said "choose wisely when picking a major". I learned this lesson the hard way.
That's not college (in general) fault, it would seem no one properly advised you. I agree with the debt is likely not worth some liberal arts degrees, but thats why I said college isn't for everyone. I 100% believe it is not a scam though, many degrees are worth the money, including my own degree. I would not be able to get the job I have without it (it is not in liberal arts).
The main advice I would give someone applying for college is stay the hell away from any creative arts degrees unless you're looking to teach the class some day or get a job as a curator somewhere.
Also I wouldn't really call the whole system a scam. I put more of the blame on people who don't have any foresight and are just bad at handling money/debts. The whole shock at how much people find out they owe where it was pretty clear what they were getting into just makes me laugh. Maybe I ended up with the only honest advisor in the universe but the majority of the complaints I see from people are from situations they put themselves in and are just looking to cast blame elsewhere. Not that there aren't bad advisors but let's be real here.
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College is an investment, you get what out what you put in. If you want to point the finger at anyone, point it at colleges. They accept students who shouldn't qualify academically because it's income, they let them linger around too long because it's income, all the while bombarding these students with messages about how they won't be able to make it in society if they don't have a bachelors. They start the propaganda in high school by paying reps to go schools and talk about how their life will be so much better if they go to their school.
The other part is that qualifications have slid needlessly up. Jobs that don't require any sort of education sometimes now need a bachelors just because a few people with degrees took those jobs in the past - that's the new standard. Society, in turn, now looks down at young people without degrees. The most important jobs for a working society only require training. I honestly believe that truck drivers, garbage men, and field laborers produce a greater good than I do, even though that does not seem to be society's view point because if a kid in school said he wanted to do any of those jobs, the adults would get on their case immediately.
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I've been blessed in that my scholarships pay for everything, and I get $700 every semester extra. The issue is that among that is a $5500/year FAFSA loan that I'll eventually have to pay back. The problem with that is that I'm going to be a teacher.
God I hope Bernie Sanders is elected.
HAHAHA. As if the one has anything to do with the other. If you think that miraculously, instantly, college is going to be "free" (NOTHING is ever free, my friend) if Bernie is elected, I don't know what to tell you. Right now, SOME kids have a debt burden from college, and are not able to find jobs. Not EVERY kid is in that boat.
College isn't a "scam" any more than Obamacare is, but like Obamacare, if you think that just "checking the box" gets you where you need to be, then, well, you're just not paying attention. College isn't a substitute for hard work, initiative, being able to effectively communicate in the environment you are in...
Not in my current position, but in the four positions prior to that, I was in a hiring position, and while it wasn't a dealbreaker (though for some positions it was, company policy), the non-college graduate had to come up with something more than "it just wasn't for me". If that's your answer, guess what, this job "isn't for you" either. I figured out a way to get an Engineering Degree, a Law Degree (from a Top 25 school) and an MBA (from a Top 10 school) with only minimal debt from the undergraduate degree.
I don't get this mentality of dumbing things down. I'm not necessarily blaming everyone who has debt from college, but I would also say that this idea of "my passion" is killing us as a society. What YOU want to do doesn't automatically mean that the world wants to pay for it. Engineering was NOT my first choice in terms of "life loves". I would have loved to have spent four years at UConn learning guitar and music theory, but even I knew that wasn't going to provide for a family and put food on the table. Not saying my decision was right or wrong, but it was a decision that accepted the consequences. I don't feel sorry for people that have $40K in college debt with a "Performance Art Major" who wonder why companies won't hire them fresh out of school for Vice President jobs (I've actually seen something like this, by the way).
Our decisions have consequences.
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God I hope Bernie Sanders is elected.
So I can pay for people to go to college and get degrees that won't help them in any way in life? We don't need more people to go to college, especially at everyone else's expense.
Obviously this is something for p/r, but the man won't tax people for others to go to college, he's taxing wall street transactions for that (0.5% on all wall street transactions apparently pays more than enough for the program, and doesn't hurt the average person at all)
And if you read in the P/R section, you will know that the math STILL doesn't add up. If you think Wall Street is going to a) stand idly by as Bernie takes over a 100 BILLION dollars from them, and/or b) is going to absorb that cost and not pass it to investors, you really aren't putting in the due diligence on this. Yeah, the "100 BILLION" is a subjective number (20 million college students times $5,000 per; I get that not all private schools will be paid for, and the $5K number is subject to debate), but regardless of your assumptions we are in "B" territory, not "M" territory, and that many zeros gets attention.
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College is an investment, you get what out what you put in.
This. I like to think the best investment you can make is an investment in yourself since you can control that, hence why I generally believe college is a good thing if you are going to put the effort into not only getting a degree, but using that degree in your career.
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College is an investment, you get what out what you put in.
I can't agree with this fully.
When I was still working in the kitchen, I worked with a girl who managed to go $210K in dept to an art school for a major in ceramics. Now, don't get me wrong, her ceramics were probably some of the best I'd ever seen and she obviously dedicated all she had into the craft... but it's still just a degree in ceramics. Maybe she'll prove me wrong some day, and for her sake I hope she does, but three years later she's still in that kitchen making less than $11 an hour.
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Thats an insane amount of debt, sounds like she didnt manage her money well. I would put her problem on poor decisions.
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Thats an insane amount of debt, sounds like she didnt manage her money well. I would put her problem on poor decisions.
100% agree. I'm just pointing out that you can put all you possibly can into your investment and even then there's no guarantee it will be a good one.
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College is an investment, you get what out what you put in.
This. I like to think the best investment you can make is an investment in yourself since you can control that, hence why I generally believe college is a good thing if you are going to put the effort into not only getting a degree, but using that degree in your career.
The thing is, are kids ready at 17 years old to make such a decision? I know I wasn't. There is a certain pressure to go to college because that's what you're supposed to do to get a job. But if you have no idea what to do, well you're just going to end up wasting your time and money. It took me four years to finally find something I felt strongly about (graphic design and illustration). And it's not something I would have thought at the end of highschool, because at that point I had lost most of the interest I used to have in visual arts. I guess you could say I went full circle (nugget!!!)
My point is, while it's true that it's an investment, we're not necessarely ready to make that decision right out of highschool. Hence the reason why you end up with people having an insane amount of debt.
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At 17 you may be young but you're not a child. I can only use my own experience to comment but the whole "I got tricked!" mindset really drives me up a wall. For every one person who made a bad decision to get into liberal or creative arts there are most likely a greater number of people that actual went through college and are handling their debts just fine.
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At 17 you may be young but you're not a child. I can only use my own experience to comment but the whole "I got tricked!" mindset really drives me up a wall. For every one person who made a bad decision to get into liberal or creative arts there are most likely a greater number of people that actual went through college and are handling their debts just fine.
At 17, you are nowhere near a mature adult. I truly didn't 100% realize the value of money until I was about 24. Out of everyone I know who's graduated with and since me, more are struggling with their debt than aren't.
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At 17 you may be young but you're not a child. I can only use my own experience to comment but the whole "I got tricked!" mindset really drives me up a wall. For every one person who made a bad decision to get into liberal or creative arts there are most likely a greater number of people that actual went through college and are handling their debts just fine.
At 17, you are nowhere near a mature adult. I truly didn't 100% realize the value of money until I was about 24. Out of everyone I know who's graduated with and since me, more are struggling with their debt than aren't.
While that is true for me as well, it wasn't until I graduated college that I realized the true value of a dollar, just because you aren't sure of your life at 17 like many people, doesn't mean you should drop 100k to go to school. People need to be smarter and if you don't know, then you take your time to figure it out, get a job and see what life is like and then go back to school if you think that is the answer for you. Sadly, parents and social pressure probably don't make that so simple, but people should be supportive of your life choices assuming they aren't bad for you (and there is nothing wrong with going into the work force instead of college at 17 if you don't know what you want to do).
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If you think Wall Street is going to a) stand idly by as Bernie takes over a 100 BILLION dollars from them, and/or b) is going to absorb that cost and not pass it to investors, you really aren't putting in the due diligence on this.
yeah, they'll probably just get him assassinated. they've got the money
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At 17 you may be young but you're not a child. I can only use my own experience to comment but the whole "I got tricked!" mindset really drives me up a wall. For every one person who made a bad decision to get into liberal or creative arts there are most likely a greater number of people that actual went through college and are handling their debts just fine.
My point was not so much about being tricked, but more about that they are so many potential career choices that it can be overwhelming if you are not prepared.
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Thats an insane amount of debt, sounds like she didnt manage her money well. I would put her problem on poor decisions.
100% agree. I'm just pointing out that you can put all you possibly can into your investment and even then there's no guarantee it will be a good one.
But again, that's putting the cart before the horse, then blaming the horse. That's not an "investment", that's a "long shot bet". What ceramicist do you know is making that kind of coin??? I don't even know what a degree in "ceramics" gets you? I also don't think I paid $210K for any TWO of my degrees.
I don't doubt you one bit, Chino, but that example is an indictment of her, not of college academics in general.
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At 17 you may be young but you're not a child. I can only use my own experience to comment but the whole "I got tricked!" mindset really drives me up a wall. For every one person who made a bad decision to get into liberal or creative arts there are most likely a greater number of people that actual went through college and are handling their debts just fine.
How come 30 years ago, 17 year olds WERE able to make this decision? Or at least a good number of them. I'm starting to repeat myself, but this is less about the "sham" nature of college academics than it is the state of our children, and the preparatory education they are getting on the way to college. We think 17 year olds (well, 18) are smart enough to drive, to vote, to get married, to have kids, but they all of a sudden can't decide what interests them? Please.
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At 17 you may be young but you're not a child. I can only use my own experience to comment but the whole "I got tricked!" mindset really drives me up a wall. For every one person who made a bad decision to get into liberal or creative arts there are most likely a greater number of people that actual went through college and are handling their debts just fine.
My point was not so much about being tricked, but more about that they are so many potential career choices that it can be overwhelming if you are not prepared.
But (and I could reply to about four posts in this thread) that is in part what college prepares you for. It is naïve to think you all of a sudden hit 22 and every decision is right there for you, clear as a bell. Life doesn't work that way. The first two years of college are almost all the same regardless of your major. Take two years, put in the effort (god forbid if you work hard at something that doesn't stoke your fires) and you aren't 17 any more, you are 20 or 21. Different ballgame. You have the experience of a multicultered environment, you have the guidance of a faculty who's best interest is getting you hired, and you have the resources of a school who's best interests are getting you hired.
And no, I'm not talking about any Ivory Tower Ivy League school. All this happened to me in a state school, which, at the time wasn't even a good one (though now it is considered a "public Ivy"). My parents didn't go to college, so they were of zero help in all this. I had to figure it out. I don't understand for the life of me, with the 'publicity' about college debt, why this is an issue. How is this someone else's fault that someone won't accept the consequences of their decision?
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People might be good at all around studies which help them in life, but what if they can't find what really sparks their interest? Common core doesn't really help you find what you want to do, it just spoonfeeds you the skills to do basic things, i.e. teaching you how to think.
For the ceramicist, Stadler, what if that person wasn't interested in any other study? Should she have just quit before she was in too deep to change to a higher paying career?
Why doesn't everyone just become an engineer or doctor? Well, because some people (like me) think that high-paying math/science careers such as those engineering and medical majors are boring/annoying as shit and would rather spend their college time learning how to teach groups of kids how to play musical instruments instead. You know, fun things to do, that we might actually have an interest in/pre-college skill.
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The first two years of college are almost all the same regardless of your major.
:huh:
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And by the way, I don't mean it to sound quite as "old man" as it does; I get that there will always be those for which this path doesn't work. I think I am objecting most to the abdication of responsibility than anything else. The very things that get many people through college in spite of their potential indecision is exactly why employers are willing to pay anywhere from 40% to 60% more for someone with a college degree than someone without.
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The first two years of college are almost all the same regardless of your major.
:huh:
Whether you go to Uconn or NVCC, your first three or four semesters will be the same generic prereq bullshit regardless of what university you're going to attend. Algebra is algebra. Why give Uconn $15k to take it when NVCC will give you the same thing for $1400?
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People might be good at all around studies which help them in life, but what if they can't find what really sparks their interest? Common core doesn't really help you find what you want to do, it just spoonfeeds you the skills to do basic things, i.e. teaching you how to think.
For the ceramicist, Stadler, what if that person wasn't interested in any other study? Should she have just quit before she was in too deep to change to a higher paying career?
Why doesn't everyone just become an engineer or doctor? Well, because some people (like me) think that high-paying math/science careers such as those engineering and medical majors are boring/annoying as shit and would rather spend their college time learning how to teach groups of kids how to play musical instruments instead. You know, fun things to do, that we might actually have an interest in/pre-college skill.
I think you are misunderstanding me. If you don't want to be an engineer or doctor, don't. No one is forcing you. But lamenting why the ceramicist isn't making $120K a year? Please. Just because a vocation interests YOU doesn't mean that anyone else should pay you for it. And if a vocation doesn't interest you, you have a choice: do something that does, but accept the consequences of that (i.e. potential low salary, no jobs, debt) or do something that doesn't interest you for a living, but accept the consequences of that (i.e. you may have to use some of your free time to pursue the interests that hold your attention). Either way, the answer is "ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES". No one is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do. But I will add, life is all about weathering through those things "you don't want to do".
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The first two years of college are almost all the same regardless of your major.
:huh:
Whether you go to Uconn or NVCC, your first three or four semesters will be the same generic prereq bullshit regardless of what university you're going to attend. Algebra is algebra. Why give Uconn $15k to take it when NVCC will give you the same thing for $1400?
As long as the credits transfer, Chino is right.
But think about that: UConn is $60K all in, assuming you can't come up with one dime of your own money to pay for it. Assuming you get no grant or scholarship money, you come out with a degree that matters and means something (there are UConn alum all over the country, no, the world, to network with) and you are at about 30% of the debt of that ceramics major.
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People might be good at all around studies which help them in life, but what if they can't find what really sparks their interest? Common core doesn't really help you find what you want to do, it just spoonfeeds you the skills to do basic things, i.e. teaching you how to think.
For the ceramicist, Stadler, what if that person wasn't interested in any other study? Should she have just quit before she was in too deep to change to a higher paying career?
Why doesn't everyone just become an engineer or doctor? Well, because some people (like me) think that high-paying math/science careers such as those engineering and medical majors are boring/annoying as shit and would rather spend their college time learning how to teach groups of kids how to play musical instruments instead. You know, fun things to do, that we might actually have an interest in/pre-college skill.
I think you are misunderstanding me. If you don't want to be an engineer or doctor, don't. No one is forcing you. But lamenting why the ceramicist isn't making $120K a year?
I'd just like to point out that I am in no way defending her. I think she's a fucking idiot for doing that. I think $210K on education is insane regardless what field you're going into. I wrote that in response to the "your investment is what you put into it" comment. My point being that she dedicated her entire life to that investment and I can say with 99.9% certainty that it's not going to pay off.
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The first two years of college are almost all the same regardless of your major.
:huh:
Whether you go to Uconn or NVCC, your first three or four semesters will be the same generic prereq bullshit regardless of what university you're going to attend. Algebra is algebra. Why give Uconn $15k to take it when NVCC will give you the same thing for $1400?
As long as the credits transfer, Chino is right.
That's a good point. Some stuff doesn't transfer. In my experience, it was the technical specific electives (Intro to COBOL, etc..) that would always give you headaches in credit transfers. The basics like languages, maths, history, and writing never gave me or anyone else I know an issue.
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Oh, you guys are talking about community college :lol
See, I was dumb and jumped straight into my state college, and started with only a single class that wasn't music-related (that decision was made for me and all the other music majors). Not including a $5500/year FAFSA loan, I get $9000 every year through scholarships I don't know if I'd have gotten if I had transferred from a community college.
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People might be good at all around studies which help them in life, but what if they can't find what really sparks their interest? Common core doesn't really help you find what you want to do, it just spoonfeeds you the skills to do basic things, i.e. teaching you how to think.
For the ceramicist, Stadler, what if that person wasn't interested in any other study? Should she have just quit before she was in too deep to change to a higher paying career?
Why doesn't everyone just become an engineer or doctor? Well, because some people (like me) think that high-paying math/science careers such as those engineering and medical majors are boring/annoying as shit and would rather spend their college time learning how to teach groups of kids how to play musical instruments instead. You know, fun things to do, that we might actually have an interest in/pre-college skill.
I think you are misunderstanding me. If you don't want to be an engineer or doctor, don't. No one is forcing you. But lamenting why the ceramicist isn't making $120K a year?
I'd just like to point out that I am in no way defending her. I think she's a fucking idiot for doing that. I think $210K on education is insane regardless what field you're going into. I wrote that in response to the "your investment is what you put into it" comment. My point being that she dedicated her entire life to that investment and I can say with 99.9% certainty that it's not going to pay off.
You don't have to answer, but what school did she attend that she has $210K in loans? That's YALE territory, there, and if she's working an $11 job with a degree from Yale (I don't care if it is "ceramics") she IS an idiot. Jeez.
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People might be good at all around studies which help them in life, but what if they can't find what really sparks their interest? Common core doesn't really help you find what you want to do, it just spoonfeeds you the skills to do basic things, i.e. teaching you how to think.
For the ceramicist, Stadler, what if that person wasn't interested in any other study? Should she have just quit before she was in too deep to change to a higher paying career?
Why doesn't everyone just become an engineer or doctor? Well, because some people (like me) think that high-paying math/science careers such as those engineering and medical majors are boring/annoying as shit and would rather spend their college time learning how to teach groups of kids how to play musical instruments instead. You know, fun things to do, that we might actually have an interest in/pre-college skill.
I think you are misunderstanding me. If you don't want to be an engineer or doctor, don't. No one is forcing you. But lamenting why the ceramicist isn't making $120K a year?
I'd just like to point out that I am in no way defending her. I think she's a fucking idiot for doing that. I think $210K on education is insane regardless what field you're going into. I wrote that in response to the "your investment is what you put into it" comment. My point being that she dedicated her entire life to that investment and I can say with 99.9% certainty that it's not going to pay off.
You don't have to answer, but what school did she attend that she has $210K in loans? That's YALE territory, there, and if she's working an $11 job with a degree from Yale (I don't care if it is "ceramics") she IS an idiot. Jeez.
I honestly don't remember. Me thinks she was an out of state resident (at the time) attending the University of Hartford for art.
Just did a quick Google, and for a CT resident attending that university, it would cost $48,098 for tuition, fees, and room and board.
That seems so reversed to me. Nearly $50k per year for a craft? You can get a degree in Management Information Systems and Civil Engineering for that, and those will actually provide a return on your investment. I feel like (I might get hammered for saying this), most forms of art don't require schooling. I'm convinced that if you spent eight hours a day for four years practicing photography, you'd be way better at that craft than after four years at a university studying it. I feel like you you'd be much better off taking some business courses while mastering your craft in your own time. I'm not saying just pick up a camera and shoot until your pictures look awesome, but rather use the internet and technology to self educate yourself. There are more Youtube tutorials and how-tos online than we know what to do with. I feel like many art forms can be taught through those services.
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You don't have to answer, but what school did she attend that she has $210K in loans? That's YALE territory, there, and if she's working an $11 job with a degree from Yale (I don't care if it is "ceramics") she IS an idiot. Jeez.
I don't know for ceramists specifically, but for a reason that completely eludes me, art school can get really expensive while the salaries are not necessarely high (some can make pretty comfortable salaries, but nothing insane). Also a lot of places are going to teach the craft, but they don't really get you ready at being a professional artist in the real world.
On the flip side, I think it's easier than ever now to research for a good art school that is actually going to prepare you, or if you have a small amount of self discipline, you can even self-educate yourself for a fraction of the price. Here's an article on the subject: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9
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I feel like (I might get hammered for saying this), most forms of art don't require schooling. I'm convinced that if you spent eight hours a day for four years practicing photography, you'd be way better at that craft than after four years at a university studying it. I feel like you you'd be much better off taking some business courses while mastering your craft in your own time. I'm not saying just pick up a camera and shoot until your pictures look awesome, but rather use the internet and technology to self educate yourself. There are more Youtube tutorials and how-tos online than we know what to do with. I feel like many art forms can be taught through those services.
Being an artist, I'm very offended that you think most form of art doesn't require schooling... ;)
Seriously, this is pretty much what the article I've linked in my previous post talked about. Some people will need the school environment to actually learn and get better, but when you talk to illustrators, concept artists for video games and I'm guessing photography would be the same, they'll tell you that what counts is the portfolio and that generally employers won't care about your degree if your work is on the level they want (and that you're not socially akward)
And, while I think my school was pretty good, I can certified that I've learned an incredible amount of things that I hadn't learned in school through youtube videos, tutorials, books (remember those things?) and online articles.
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I get what Chino is saying, I'm not an artist so I would think a lot of schooling would be self taught and practice, but I imagine it is also good to learn techniques/styles and history of the art you are studying besides just practicing the physical aspect of creating the art. However, I cannot see the value is spending more than 20k a year on that type of schooling and Im thinking the number of 20k might be high too.
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I get what Chino is saying, I'm not an artist so I would think a lot of schooling would be self taught and practice, but I imagine it is also good to learn techniques/styles and history of the art you are studying besides just practicing the physical aspect of creating the art. However, I cannot see the value is spending more than 20k a year on that type of schooling and Im thinking the number of 20k might be high too.
Well, that's where I come in. I don't doubt the benefit of schooling for art, even if it sounds counter-intuitive, because I am a HUGE advocate of surrounding yourself with talent. There is a reason there are an incredibly disproportionately high number of excellent rock guitarists from England; when you grow up playing in basements with Dave Murray and Adrian Smith (childhood friends) you can't help but be better than you were before. I know I learned more in the two years I Mummed (look it up) than in all the years before that, simply because I was ALWAYS around someone who knew the music I was playing and my instrument better than me (even if it wasn't their instrument).
So to pay $20k or even $50k to get that exposure is a decision that the individual has to make. But that you paid "$x" for that education doesn't have any bearing on whether you can earn "$y" for it, and at the end of the day, you HAVE to take responsibility for your decision. No one signed your schedule for you, and no one moved your shit into your dorm for you (well, maybe, but you know what I mean). Own your situation.
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There's a reason John Petrucci and John Myung dropped out of Berkley :neverusethis:
Just playing. I'm not implying that the arts shouldn't have schools. I just don't think every branch of art requires an education to be a master of your craft.
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There's a reason John Petrucci and John Myung dropped out of Berkley :neverusethis:
Just playing. I'm not implying that the arts shouldn't have schools. I just don't think every branch of art requires an education to be a master of your craft.
Well, in the arts, a little education can go a long way.
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College seemed so far. I'm only 13...it's not wrong to start having college plans, right? I should not be worrying, but...?
People say, "OH college? Still 5 years ahead of you. Forget about it!" But Im nervous if I don't start taking college seriously now, I never will.
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College seemed so far. I'm only 13...it's not wrong to start having college plans, right? I should not be worrying, but...?
People say, "OH college? Still 5 years ahead of you. Forget about it!" But Im nervous if I don't start taking college seriously now, I never will.
It's not all that it's cracked up to be and I truly believe that your school choice is not as crucial as most people believe. Most people I graduated with two years ago are already on their second job and on a career path that's already deviating from what we majored in.
It's great you're think about it now, but you've got plenty of time. Definitely look into a low cost community college for your first two years. No need to spend all kinds of money on a big university that early. Your basic prerequisite classes will be the same regardless what school you attend.
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I think 13 is too young to "worry" about college, its fine to think about, but really no point in getting worried. Keep yourself focused on the things you control like your grades and extracurricular activities and the college will come a bit more naturally as you learn about yourself and what you like/dislike and also what you are good at.
While I get Chino's view of saving some dough by going to a community college, but there is something to be said about being on your own in a big school and figuring things out yourself, not just school work, but figuring out how to make friends, how to manage your time, experience different cultures, learn about yourself, and plenty of other things that you experience by being on your own in college.
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That is all true, but even now my brothers are being pressured to go to Harvard and Yale. Basically, my parents have our future set up, but Im not smart enough to go to those those options schools. I worry because I've been told that college describes your "fate." They say that tuition is rising and there are more people that want to go college. Also my brothers say that ap's/sat/and act with make my life miserable so I should start worrying about my future. So many things are going around me and it just overwhelms me.
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That is all true, but even now my brothers are being pressured to go to Harvard and Yale. Basically, my parents have our future set up, but Im not smart enough to go to those those options schools. I worry because I've been told that college describes your "fate." They say that tuition is rising and there are more people that want to go college. Also my brothers say that ap's/sat/and act with make my life miserable so I should start worrying about my future. So many things are going around me and it just overwhelms me.
Only you can make your fate. If you can't get into an Ivy league school, that is perfectly fine. But you have to make the best of what you have in front of you.
My parents were pretty tough on me when it came to college. They forced SAT prep down my throat also forced me to do extracurricular activities I was not interested in. At the end of the day, it is what you make of it. Not everyone is set to be an Ivy leaguer. That is totally fine, make the most out of whatever school you can get into if further education is your goal.
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But above all, there are no rules here.
You're all right to some degree, and you're not to others. Chino is right for 95% of the population, in that your choice doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but the reality is, when your college roommate goes on to be a Senator, or CEO, as it often does in the Ivy League (or elite) schools, it matters. It just does. But that's the elite tier. At the next level, not so much, but it still does. We joke about saying "I got a guy..." but having gone to UConn, I DO have a guy. I have a network of people I can call on, by no other virtue than we have a piece of paper with the same logo on it. Sounds like nonsense, but it isn't when you're talking about serious issues like finding a job. People talk about how the "rich" have the advantage; it's not the rich. It is the networked.
Now, granted, you have to be remembered for more than being "that guy" that buried the four-beer funnel while puffing a joint out of his butt crack, but still.
College doesn't describe your fate, but what you DO at college does. But, kiddo, that's life. After you get out of high school, EVERYTHING you do "describes your fate" in one form or another. You can't bounce through life from incident to incident hoping there is a reset every single time, because it doesn't work that way.
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Concentrate more on the desired career than the higher education location at this point. Find as many career possibilities at this point. It defines everything else.
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I already have a dream of what I want to be, but I've heard that a lot of people change majors throughout so I'm not confident I'll stick with this, but it's calling to me strongly now.
:6:
:2hammer:
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I already have a dream of what I want to be, but I've heard that a lot of people change majors throughout so I'm not confident I'll stick with this, but it's calling to me strongly now.
:6:
:2hammer:
I changed twice in undergrad, finished with an Engineering degree, then when I got into the real world, decided I needed more, so went to law school, then didn't actually work for a firm (but was inside Counsel for a Fortune 5 company whose legal department has been widely praised as a "law firm unto itself"), then left the legal department to work in the commercial group and went and got my MBA.
You can change, but have a thread. Have something you can tell employers is the "common denominator" between all your positions and changes. For me, I sell it as "The Deal". I want to be part of the deal in all facets; structuring, negotiating, etc. and they are all related and intertwined. They've bought that now for 25 years. ;)
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I understood the first part, but not the second. Have a thread? What exactly do you mean? And what's a common denominator? Is it like the common denominator of 7 and 5 is 35? Cause I'm learning that in class. And what's "The Deal?" Is it a made up word? And what's a MBA?
:alwayswatchingyou:
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I understood the first part, but not the second. Have a thread? What exactly do you mean? And what's a common denominator? Is it like the common denominator of 7 and 5 is 35? Cause I'm learning that in class. And what's "The Deal?" Is it a made up word? And what's a MBA?
:alwayswatchingyou:
Meaning a thread or common theme throughout your career. if you bounce from lawyer to graphic designer to chef to construction worker, you're going to look like you don't know what you're doing, that you're desperate, and taking any job that comes your way. If you sell with a common theme (yes, the "common denominator") that you are interested in positions that require creativity, it sounds more like you know what you're doing.
MBA is a Master's of Business Administration. Basically an advanced business degree that you get after college.
"The Deal" is the actual transaction. I negotiate transactions between companies, essentially. So when you go and by that new Dream Theater record, I would have negotiated the deal between Dream Theater and the record company to get you that album (though I'm not in entertainment).
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I agree with Stadler but would like to add that I think that depends on the industry you're looking to get into. I work in insurance and having a well-rounded resume is considered a good thing. If your resume is just 15 years of various business analyst work, odd are that's the type of work you're going to get hired for. If you have a few years as a database administrator, a few years as a business analyst, a few years of underwriting, and a few years of working in bond, you are going to look more appealing to more managers. There are certain industries where having experience throughout is considered better than doing the same thing your whole career. Then again, I guess you could lump all of those positions into the general category of "insurance".
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Good advice by Chino; insurance is sort of a singular industry, so the more you know about the various pieces, the better off you are.