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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: TheCountOfNYC on March 14, 2015, 02:20:03 PM
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This is inspired by the recent Octavarium vs Systematic Chaos thread. I realized that Six Degrees and Black Clouds are also very similarly structured, maybe even more so. This may not seem like much of a competition at first glance with SDoIT often being regarded as one of Dream Theater's top albums and BC&SL usually being considered one of their worst, but I think when comparing individual songs, these albums are a little closer than many may think. This thread will show if I'm right or not. I'll start it off.
The Glass Prison vs A Nightmare to Remember
Both albums start off with a long, epic, and heavy track. Both are incredible songs that really help set the tone for the rest of the album. Both songs have their signature moments (TGP's intro and ANTR's Beautiful Agony section) and instrumental sections highlighted by shredding solos from Jordan and John. This is a tough one to choose for me, but I feel that A Nightmare to Remember has a little bit more depth to it, and while it's lows are lower than The Glass Prison's lows, it's highs are higher.
Winner: A Nightmare to Remember
Blind Faith vs A Rite of Passage
Both of these songs are about somewhat controversial subjects and are also controversial songs among forum members. Both have great solo sections as well. But this one isn't close for me like the last one. Blind Faith has better lyrics, better music, and it's solo section is world's ahead of A Rite of Passage's solo section. While Blind Faith isn't one of my favorite DT songs, AROP is one of my least favorites.
Winner: Blind Faith
Misunderstood vs Wither
This is a battle between each album's respective ballad (although Misunderstood barely qualifies as a ballad). I love the lyrics to both of these. John Petrucci really dug deep within himself for these words and both feel really vulnerable and real. For me, Misunderstood wins because while the end drags a little too long and can be grating after awhile, the rest of the song is overall better and I associate with the lyrical content more even though I have a lot of experience with both.
Winner: Misunderstood
The Great Debate vs The Shattered Fortress
Here is another battle between two controversial songs, although for different reasons. The Great Debate has the band's most controversial lyrics to date, while The Shattered Fortress is song that many on these forums have vastly different opinions on, with some considering it a masterpiece and some considering a mess. The Great Debate on the other hand is generally regarded as one of their best songs. My opinion on the two songs is different than the general forum consensus. I think The Great Debate, while a great song, is not among their best songs while The Shattered Fortress is among the best and is the best part of the Twelve Step Suite.
Winner: The Shattered Fortress
Disappear vs The Best of Times
Easily the most depressing songs from each album, both deal with death, although TBoT deals with it on a more personal level. These songs are pretty close in quality for me, with Disappear maybe even getting the edge... until The Best of Times' solo kicks in. This to me is the greatest guitar solo ever played by anybody regardless of band or genre. The notes and the effects JP chose are perfect and he packed so much emotion into every pick stroke. I want to personally thank him for this solo one day. The solo is enough to give TBoT the edge in this one.
Winner: The Best of Times.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence vs The Count of Tuscany
These are absolutely incredible pieces of music. Both are by far the best song on each album. I can go on forever about these two songs, but I'll try to keep it short. This is the hardest of the six matchups for me to decide on. I hate to see either one lose, but there has to be a winner. Both do a great job of telling their respective story, and musically they are almost flawless. Lyrically, SDoIT is definitely better. Musically, TCoT goes on a better journey. In the end, both are incredible pieces, but I have to make a decision, and the winner by a close margin is The Count of Tuscany.
Winner: The Count of Tuscany
Now I want to make a point that while BC&SL won more matchups, I actually prefer SDoIT. While BC&SL's highs are higher, it's only by a little bit and it's lows are much lower. SDoIT flows better as well. So even though Black Clouds wins 4-2 when comparing individual songs, Six Degrees is a better album. Either way, they're both incredible albums.
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Honestly, I think BCSL wins every matchup for me. Maybe Blind Faith beats AROP, but the rest of them are definite wins for BCSL. SDOIT just is clearly their weakest album.
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Alright, I'll bite.
The Glass Prison vs A Nightmare to Remember
I'm not that big a fan of TGP as a lot of people seem to be, though I have to admit its ending is glorious. Still, ANTR takes the cake here for me, despite being a bit drawn out, I still think it's a much better song.
Blind Faith vs A Rite of Passage
I don't think any comments are needed here.
Misunderstood vs Wither
Wither is pretty bland ballad, it's enjoyable, but not very much. Misunderstood, on the other hand, is a great experimental track and I love it to pieces until the outro comes in. Still, even with that controversially horrible outro, I like Misunderstood better.
The Great Debate vs The Shattered Fortress
Curiously, I saw both songs live (TGD in 2011 and TSF in 2014, I think), and if that was the question which song works better live, I would've voted for TSF. However, in studio TSF seems like a dull medley of other AA suite pieces, and TGD is actually an amazing prog track. Love it.
Disappear vs The Best of Times
Don't get me wrong, I love both intro and outro of TBOT, but as a whole song, Disappear is just much more emotional and satisfying package.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence vs The Count of Tuscany
Well, SDOIT the song is probably my least favourite epic by DT, so it's a no-brainer for me at all.
Overall, SDOIT won this 4-2, but in fact I think both albums are pretty even for me. True, if SDOIT didn't have this second disc, it would've been nearly perfect and that would've been enough for it to soar up in my DT album rankings, but as things stand now, both albums are just somewhere in the middle, maybe even a bit lower than that. Not a very popular opinion, I know.
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SDoIT all the way. The lowest ranked SDoIT song I have is #36 and BC&SL doesn't ever get higher than #33. Their best album vs an album that if it disappeared from history, it would make me less embarrassed to be associated with DT.
"I like Dream Theater."
"Oh really, I heard an album by them called Black Clouds & Silver Linings."
"I'm so sorry. But I swear they actually have good songs."
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Curiously, I was thinking on the same thing when trying to decide I like BC&SL or SDOIT more. I used other match-ups, as to matth better intensity/length of songs. I also allowed draws... even though I'm not following the rules, I'm posting them.
The Glass Prison vs The Shattered Fortress
DRAW!
Blind Faith vs A Nightmare to Remember
BC&SL!
Misunderstood vs A Rite of Passage
SDOIT!
The Great Debate vs The Best of Times
BC&SL!
Disappear vs Wither
SDOIT!
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence vs The Count of Tuscany
SDOIT!
So I'm inclined to say SDOIT wins by 3.5-2.5, but still it's a marginal difference and I can't really tell which album I like more.
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The Glass Prison vs. A Nightmare To Remember
The Glass Prison is pretty great from front-to-back and the four minutes are just fantastic. A Nightmare To Remember is a good intro and outro with a lot of stuff inbetween ranging from great to awful. Intro, Beautiful Agony, Outro, good that's all I ever really want to hear from that one anymore. Easily TGP.
Blind Faith vs. A Rite of Passage
Blind Faith is probably my least favorite song on the first disc of SDOIT. The music's just okay most of the time and the lyrics are some of DT's absolute worst. The unison is pretty damn stellar though, most of the instrumental bits are great really. A Rite of Passage is one of my least favorite DT songs in general, though, and I dislike pretty much everything about it. Main riff gets old quick and soon becomes grating, chorus is awful awful, instrumental is out of place and pointless. Ugh. Blind Faith wins.
Misunderstood vs. Wither
Powerful power ballad with one of my absolute favorite moments in the entire DT discography, vs. generic boring power ballad that wishes it could even stand in the former's shadow. Misunderstood wins by default because Wither didn't even show up to the competition.
The Great Debate vs. The Shattered Fortress
The Great Debate is a song I describe as a valley. It starts out FANTASTIC. The entire intro is just, great. Then the lyrical bits happen and I'm a bit less happy. Then the slower part which I just don't like much in general. The instrumental brings things back up to enjoyable and the outro is also great. The Shattered Fortress is a lot of good reprises and a few original bits, but there's not a lot to it worth calling "original". It's a natural conclusion to the 12-step suite, I guess, but I think the reprises could've been done better. This is probably the closest matchup out of them all but I'm gonna give it to The Great Debate.
Disappear vs. who even bloody cares
Disappear is a top 5 DT song for me. Moving on.
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence vs. The Count of Tuscany
The Count wins by virtue of actually being a song and not 8 songs loosely tied together with an overarching theme. Not that The Count is that coherent either. The intro and the heavy bit are basically two different songs mashed together and the ambient section begins and ends abruptly, but the rest of the song flows pretty well, the big ending choruses melding into the intro reprisal pretty smoothly. The Count of Tuscany wins here.
It should be noted that both of these rank in my lower half of DT albums overall, really. Aside from The Glass Prison, Misunderstood, and Disappear, none of them make my top 50, while those three are all in at least my top 20.
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TGP
BF
Misunderstood
TGD
Disappear
SDOIT
6:0
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This isn't even a contest......it's a Clean Sweep for Six Degrees. BC&SL my least favorite DT album because (IMO) it was mailed in. The 'hopelessly drifting' section of ANTR was cool sounding and parts of TCOT were cool....but all in all I felt that BC&SL was made just to be made. This album could have easily been the period where they took a break.
The Glass Prison is such a well structured and executed song....and the unisons in this are pretty incredible. Blind Faith is in my top 3 DT songs of all time and followed by Misunderstood which on any given day could be top 5 for me. Both songs are lyrically top notch and filled with emotion. The Great Debate is a very solid song and Disappear has almost a lucid dream feel to it. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is fantastic IMO.....
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6DOIT by a landslide. Every song off 6DOIT is better than every song off BC&SL except The Count of Tuscany (which is better than The Great Debate and possibly 6DOIT the song depending on my mood).
Honestly, I think BCSL wins every matchup for me. Maybe Blind Faith beats AROP, but the rest of them are definite wins for BCSL. SDOIT just is clearly their weakest album.
:eek :eek
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There's stuff I like in most of the songs, and the title song is really good (though The Count of Tuscany is better), but the first disc is just not up to par for me at all.
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I'll do the full ranking of the 12 songs.
1. The Best of Times
2. The Count of Tuscany
3. Blind Faith
4. A Nightmare to Remember
5. A Rite of Passage
6. The Shattered Fortress
7. Disappear
8. The Glass Prison
9. Wither
10. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
11. Misunderstood
12. The Great Debate
So for me, the clear winner is BC&SL. Not that I didn't already know that. BC&SL is my second favorite album, and SDOIT is my second least favorite.
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No. Just no. This is not even a contest. I like BCASL plenty, but the best off BCASL would equal about the worst off SDOIT at best.
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
No. Just no. This is not even a contest. I like BCASL plenty, but the best off BCASL would equal about the worst off SDOIT at best.
These. The only similarity is they both have 6 "songs".
Six Degrees for Every Track.
I love The Count Of Tuscany but Six Degrees is just light years better.
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The Glass Prison - A Nightmare To Remember
Blind Faith - A Rite Of Passage
Misunderstood - Wither
The Great Debate - The Shattered Fortress
Disappear - The Best Of Times
SDOIT - The Count Of Tuscany
???
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The Glass Prison - A Nightmare To Remember
Blind Faith - A Rite Of Passage
Misunderstood - Wither
The Great Debate - The Shattered Fortress
Disappear - The Best Of Times
SDOIT - The Count Of Tuscany
???
1. TGP = No RORORORO DAY AFTA DAY
2. Blind Faith = No Bebot Solo
4. The Great Debate = A new song - not a medley.
6. SDOIT = No MAH BRUTHA SUCKIN ON HIS PIPE
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The Glass Prison
Blind Faith
Wither
The Great Debate
Disappear
The Count of Tuscany
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All SDOIT disc 1 but TCOT blows SDOIT out of the water.
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Six Degrees wipes the floor with Black Clouds.
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
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The Glass Prison - A Nightmare To Remember
Blind Faith - A Rite Of Passage
Misunderstood - Wither
The Great Debate - The Shattered Fortress
Disappear - The Best Of Times
SDOIT - The Count Of Tuscany
???
1. TGP = No RORORORO DAY AFTA DAY
2. Blind Faith = No Bebot Solo
4. The Great Debate = A new song - not a medley.
6. SDOIT = No MAH BRUTHA SUCKIN ON HIS PIPE
Because all DT songs should be judged solely by short sections blown out of proportion by DTF cliches and all caps writing.
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Well, if you're having an okay day, and the only thing of note that happened was that you got shot in the foot, that'd probably be what you remember about that day.
The 'sucking on is pipe' and 'day after day' sections are mind numbingly horrible, especially the latter, and makes it nearly impossible for anything else on those tracks to save it. ANTR has good moments, as does TCoT, but they can only help so much.
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The 'sucking on is pipe' and 'day after day' sections are mind numbingly horrible, especially the latter, and makes it nearly impossible for anything else on those tracks to save it. ANTR has good moments, as does TCoT, but they can only help so much.
Can't say I agree about TCOT. Yeah, that part is pretty bad, but among the other brilliant sections TCOT offers, especially this incredible ending, "sucking on his pipe" moment is just a drop of disappointment in the sea of awesomeness, in my opinion.
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The Count of Tuscany's lyrics are silly as hell, but that's part of its charm. I never thought any of the lyrics to TCOT were cringeworthy, but "day after day" is hilariously bad, and kind of embarrassing.
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Because all DT songs should be judged solely by short sections blown out of proportion by DTF cliches and all caps writing.
Not necessarily, but a bad part can ruin an otherwise great song (not that those are the only bad spots on the BC&SL songs). Plus, those corresponding songs from 6DOIT don't have any such negative short sections.
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I prefer The Count to the title "song" of Six Degrees, but as for the rest of the songs, it's 6D all the way.
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Because all DT songs should be judged solely by short sections blown out of proportion by DTF cliches and all caps writing.
Not necessarily, but a bad part can ruin an otherwise great song (not that those are the only bad spots on the BC&SL songs). Plus, those corresponding songs from 6DOIT don't have any such negative short sections.
I've always thoughts DTF's opinions on those sections are huge overreactions. Even if I didn't like those sections, I can't imagine how they could possibly ruin the whole song for me. :dunno:
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Because all DT songs should be judged solely by short sections blown out of proportion by DTF cliches and all caps writing.
Not necessarily, but a bad part can ruin an otherwise great song (not that those are the only bad spots on the BC&SL songs). Plus, those corresponding songs from 6DOIT don't have any such negative short sections.
I've always thoughts DTF's opinions on those sections are huge overreactions. Even if I didn't like those sections, I can't imagine how they could possibly ruin the whole song for me. :dunno:
I agree. It would have to be a big chunk of the song for it to actually ruin the song for me. Besides, with DT the song lengths make it really hard to dislike a song because a minute or two of the song isn't to one's liking.
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Because all DT songs should be judged solely by short sections blown out of proportion by DTF cliches and all caps writing.
Maybe go for a walk. :)
And whenever I put on A Nightmare To Remember - I always notice how it's simply way too long. The Beautiful Agony section helps but as soon as the
heavy section comes back around it just drags and there's at least two solo sections too many.
I really like Wither & The Best Of Times but overall there's no way that the album is better than the entirety of Six Degrees.
The title track alone is better than the whole of Black Clouds. Then it has 5 bonus songs.
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No. Just no. This is not even a contest. I like BCASL plenty, but the best off BCASL would equal about the worst off SDOIT at best.
Exactly my thoughts.
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Even if it's a relatively small part of the song, it'll always be there on every listen, ruining every listening experience. It's like saying that one single small bite of poop doesn't ruin an entire large and otherwise good meal.
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Even if it's a relatively small part of the song, it'll always be there on every listen, ruining every listening experience. It's like saying that one single small bite of poop doesn't ruin an entire large and otherwise good meal.
It's more like one small scene you don't like in a movie ruining the entire movie for you. It just seems so childish to let one thing ruin the entire experience for you. But whatever.
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Next up :
Scenes From A Memory VS Dream Theater :biggrin:
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Even if it's a relatively small part of the song, it'll always be there on every listen, ruining every listening experience. It's like saying that one single small bite of poop doesn't ruin an entire large and otherwise good meal.
"Ruining" is overly dramatic way to put it, I think. I don't think any of those sections are ruining the song.
Even if it's a relatively small part of the song, it'll always be there on every listen, ruining every listening experience. It's like saying that one single small bite of poop doesn't ruin an entire large and otherwise good meal.
It's more like one small scene you don't like in a movie ruining the entire movie for you. It just seems so childish to let one thing ruin the entire experience for you. But whatever.
Agreed.
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There are also skippable sections in SDOIT. For me there are two: the first half of Goodnight Kiss, or the last minute of Misunderstood. For BC&SL, the only part I sometimes skip is the second part of TCOT (I even did a 11-minute edit with the first half only).
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Both discs (individually) are better than BC&SL :biggrin:
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There's just no comparison between one of their greatest works - 6DOIT - and one of their weakest (BC&SL). You're not even comparing apples to apples!
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1. TGP = No RORORORO DAY AFTA DAY
2. Blind Faith = No Bebot Solo
4. The Great Debate = A new song - not a medley.
6. SDOIT = No MAH BRUTHA SUCKIN ON HIS PIPE
:rollin
Cracking up because I read this as the reasons those songs should lose, like "TGP sucks because it doesn't have RORORO"
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
No. Just no. This is not even a contest. I like BCASL plenty, but the best off BCASL would equal about the worst off SDOIT at best.
These. The only similarity is they both have 6 "songs".
Six Degrees for Every Track.
I love The Count Of Tuscany but Six Degrees is just light years better.
Approved and signed.
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There are 2 things that 6D's clearly has over BC&SL.
1. 6 D's has a freshness of ideas from a band "on the rise" compared to BC&SL where it feels the band has truly "settled in".
2. The sound is way more pleasant on the ears.
That said, if you just look at the songs, to me, they are quite comparable.
Both have two songs that I absolutely love, which I would rank like this:
Disappear
TCOT
TBOT
Blind Faith
The first three are Top 15 tracks for me and BF might be Top 20.
Both have openers that, to me, are a chore to get through. Both feel bloated.
Track by track:
The Glass Prison vs A Nightmare To Remember
Like I said, it's a chore to get through both. I am not in love with ANTR, but no track in DT's discography has aged worse to me than TGP.
Bind Faith vs A Rite Of Passage
No contest here
Misunderstood vs. Wither
No contest here
The Great Debate vs The Shattered Fortress
The Great Debate is bloated too, but The Shatered Fortress was a huge disappointment. It ends pretty good, but maybe I'm just happy it finally ends.
Disappear vs The Best Of Times
I give the slight edge to Disappear, but I LOVE TBOT and both are upper echelon tracks to me.
Six Degrees vs The Count Of Tuscany
TCOT is incredible, where as 6 D's might be the biggest waste of a continuous 40 minutes in DT's catalog. Talk about mailing it in..
I do give 6 D's the edge but in no way does 6 D's "wipe the floor" with BC&SL.
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...in no way does 6 D's "wipe the floor" with BC&SL.
Yuh huh!
The Glass Prison is DT's most bad ass song, and the quickest 14 minutes ever. In no way is it a chore. A chore would be having to edit a song just to make it listenable, which is the case for ANTR.
Not much to say about Blind Faith other than comparing it to AROP is an insult to Blind Faith.
The only thing I could complain about with Misunderstood is its ending, and the song itself took ages for me to appreciate, but I'd still take it over Wither, although Wither isn't a bad song.
I love The Shattered Fortress and The Great Debate. TSF has Portnoy's silly shouting, and TGD has that awful soundbite of the woman talking about god's will that makes me want to strangle her cause she's so dumb... The Great Debate easily.
Disappear is a made up story with so much emotion and creepiness that you'd think it was real. TBOT does not have the greatest lyrics, and if MP planned to never perform it live than it should have been a B-side.
TCOT is a monster of a song with the cheesiest b-movie style lyrics, but that's what makes it so great. It still can't compare to the even bigger monster that is Six Degrees. By far the quickest and most satisfying 42 minutes ever. Not a single complaint about this song, although I will say I used to think the Overture overstayed its welcome.
So yeah, opinions.
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Yuh huh!
Nuh huh!! :P
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Six Degrees wipes the floor with Black Clouds.
I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
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compares Images and Words to Octavarium because why not yolo
1. Pull Me Under vs. The Root of All Evil
TROAE is in my top 5, next
2. Another Day vs. The Answer Lies Within
TALW is nice but Another Day is just a much better ballad in every way.
3. Take The Time vs. These Walls
Take The Time is in my top 5, next
4. Surrounded vs. I Walk Beside You
Surrounded wins this one no contest.
5. Metropolis vs. Panic Attack
Panic Attack is great and all but Metropolis is Metropolis.
6. Under A Glass Moon vs. Never Enough
I like these both for completely different reasons but I'd definitely prefer UAGM at any given moment
7. Wait For Sleep vs. Sacrificed Sons
Somewhat unfair since I've never cared for Wait for Sleep much anyways, but yeah, Sacrificed Sons takes this one
8. Learning to Live vs. Octavarium
Battle of the "super-popular songs that I like but am not as crazy as most people over". That being said, Octavarium is my preferred choice.
So Images and Words took 5/8 matchups.
5/8. Nuggetz.
5 + 8 = 13 -> DT13 confirmed to be a rerelease of Images And Words
:biggrin:
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The Glass Prison vs A Nightmare To Remember
Bind Faith vs A Rite Of Passage
Misunderstood vs. Wither
The Great Debate vs The Shattered Fortress.
Disappear vs The Best Of Times
Six Degrees vs The Count Of Tuscany
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I cannot imagine giving it to Black Clouds. Six Degrees, no question. It's like asking: Dream Theater, or Metallica? The right answer is obvious.
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TGP vs ANTR
BF vs AROP
Misunderstood vs Wither
TGD vs TSF
Disappear vs TBOT
SDOIT vs TCOT
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
No. Just no. This is not even a contest. I like BCASL plenty, but the best off BCASL would equal about the worst off SDOIT at best.
These. The only similarity is they both have 6 "songs".
Six Degrees for Every Track.
I love The Count Of Tuscany but Six Degrees is just light years better.
Pretty much all of this. And not that Black Clouds doesn't have some greatness--it does. But it does not even come close to Six Degrees for me.
The 'sucking on is pipe' and 'day after day' sections are mind numbingly horrible...
I like you a lot, but this is a fail of such epic proportion that I cannot even begin to respond.
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Not sure how you don't see it, bosky.
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There is nothing "horrible" to see. They are both great.
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There is nothing "horrible" to see. They are both great.
You think "Sucking on his pipe" is a "great" lyric?
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No issue here with TCOT lyrics but the "day after day" grunts don't appease me.
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There is nothing "horrible" to see. They are both great.
You think "Sucking on his pipe" is a "great" lyric?
I thought we were talking about that whole section (since the post is about the "sucking on his pipe section"), not just those 4 isolated words of the lyrics. I'm not sure I would consider those lyrics "great," but they are certainly serviceable and convey what they are supposed to convey. There is certainly nothing remotely approaching "mind numbingly horrible" about them.
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There is nothing "horrible" to see. They are both great.
You think "Sucking on his pipe" is a "great" lyric?
I thought we were talking about that whole section (since the post is about the "sucking on his pipe section"), not just those 4 isolated words of the lyrics. I'm not sure I would consider those lyrics "great," but they are certainly serviceable and convey what they are supposed to convey. There is certainly nothing remotely approaching "mind numbingly horrible" about them.
We can talk about those 4 words, that whole section, or the entire song, if you want, and I think they lean pretty far toward both mind-numbing and horrible, although I wouldn't necessarily combine the adjectives in that manner. They are not serviceable. They are, at best, unnecessarily cheesy, and at worst, just bad.
Which fits with much of the rest of the album. So I am inclined to chalk it up to the album version of a bad day at the office. The vast majority of albums before this show a much higher level of songcraft and lyrics, as do the two following albums, so it's not a big deal. But I'm not going to pretend it's good, or serviceable, when I don't think it is either.
If you like it, then great.
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...I think they lean pretty far toward both mind-numbing and horrible, although I wouldn't necessarily combine the adjectives in that manner. They are not serviceable. They are, at best, unnecessarily cheesy, and at worst, just bad.
That's fine if you think so. You are certainly entitled to feel that way. But for me, I cannot fathom any criteria that would put those sections in the same zip code as "bad."
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*shrugs*
Not sure how to see them in any other way.
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There is nothing "horrible" to see. They are both great.
You think "Sucking on his pipe" is a "great" lyric?
I thought we were talking about that whole section (since the post is about the "sucking on his pipe section"), not just those 4 isolated words of the lyrics. I'm not sure I would consider those lyrics "great," but they are certainly serviceable and convey what they are supposed to convey. There is certainly nothing remotely approaching "mind numbingly horrible" about them.
We can talk about those 4 words, that whole section, or the entire song, if you want, and I think they lean pretty far toward both mind-numbing and horrible, although I wouldn't necessarily combine the adjectives in that manner. They are not serviceable. They are, at best, unnecessarily cheesy, and at worst, just bad.
Which fits with much of the rest of the album. So I am inclined to chalk it up to the album version of a bad day at the office. The vast majority of albums before this show a much higher level of songcraft and lyrics, as do the two following albums, so it's not a big deal. But I'm not going to pretend it's good, or serviceable, when I don't think it is either.
If you like it, then great.
That's just like your opinion man.
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Yeah, I know.
But it's not JUST mine.
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The Glass Prison
Blind Faith
Wither
The Great Debate
Disappear
The Count of Tuscany
Yup, and especially:
Blind Faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AROP
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
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I don't even have to do a song by song. This is not a fair matchup. 6DOIT by miles and miles and miles.
Pretty much.
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More like lightyears. Miles doesn't even begin to measure the distance.
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I don't think you can single out "sucking on his pipe". That whole passage is silly as fuck. I never minded the lyrics though. There are certainly worse out there.
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I think you can single out both "sucking on his pipe" and "day after day". Lyrical, vocal and maybe even musical low points of those 2 songs. Good thing those songs are long enough with a bunch of other really good material that the lows don't detract too much.
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SDOIT by miles and miles. The only remotely close matchup is TCOT and Six Degrees, but SDOIT is my favorite DT song so that's just tough luck for BC&SL.
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All 6DOIT wins track by track for me.
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^that.
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Same here. But Blind Faith only won because of the track sequence. If it went up against ANTR, TSF, or TCOT, it would have been done for.
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I think every 6DOIT song beats every BC&SL song although the song 6DOIT might lose out to CoT if it wasn't for the terrible lyrics of CoT. Musically, CoT may be better it is just too hard to judge it with the lyrics and subject matter in place. I loved SDOIT when it came out but that song got pretty old for me pretty fast. Whether DT wants to admit it or not, I cannot think of that song as one whole song. It seems very disjointed to me.
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If all of TCoT was as good as its first few minutes and the short bits just before the break, then it would be musically better than SDoIT. Unfortunately, the music beneath the verses is pretty dull. The choruses are musically okay, but nothing special. So SDoIT all the way, musically and lyrically.
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I think the same about TCoT (the intro being the best thing about it) but still would prefer SDOIT anyway.
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I would still take BF over ANTR, TSF and TCOT combined.
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well now I'm curious, every song vs. every song go
TGP, Misunderstood, and Disappear are all 6 points each for 6DOIT, not bothering there
Blind Faith vs. BC&SL
ANTR, TBOT, TCOT all win (3-3)
The Great Debate vs. BC&SL
TBOT, TCOT win (4-2)
6DOIT vs. BC&SL
ANTR, TSF, TBOT, TCOT win (2-4)
final score is 27-9
so yeah it's still a pretty landslide victory for 6DOIT that way :lol
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I'll just do it this way:
Six Degrees
The Glass Prison
A Nightmare To Remember
Misunderstood
Disappear
The Great Debate
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
...
Blind Faith
A Right of Passage
...
Wither
The Best of Times
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I would still take BF over ANTR, TSF and TCOT combined.
Same here.
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Even wrong opinions are welcome here.
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I'll just do it this way:
Six Degrees
The Glass Prison
A Nightmare To Remember
Misunderstood
Disappear
The Great Debate
The Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
...
Blind Faith
A Right of Passage
...
Wither
The Best of Times
Blind Faith
Misunderstood
The Great Debate
A Rite of Passage
The Glass Prison
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Disappear
Shattered Fortress
The Count of Tuscany
A Nightmare to Remember
The Best of Times
Wither
_______
I hesitate to put TSF where it is at because it has grown on me since I got to hear it on Breaking the Fourth Wall so it might go up a spot but otherwise that list is pretty set in stone.
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When I compare Awake to FII track by track, Awake wins 6 to 5.
But if I compare Awake's tracks to FII's tracks in reverse order, FII wins 7 to 4.
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Even wrong opinions are welcome here.
Is your beef with Blind Faith only the lyrics, or do you have a problem with the music too?
I think if I can get past the lyrics to Theocracy's Mirror of Souls album, and even sing along to them, you can like Blind Faith.
Now like it!
LIKE IT!
God damn it, LIKE IT! *whips with belt*
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When I compare Awake to FII track by track, Awake wins 6 to 5.
But if I compare Awake's tracks to FII's tracks in reverse order, FII wins 7 to 4.
let me try
6:00 vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, LitS win (9-2)
Caught In A Web vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS, ToT win (7-4)
Innocence Faded vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS, ToT win (7-4)
Erotomania vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS, ToT win (7-4)
Voices vs. FII
Voices sweeps (11-0)
The Silent Man vs. FII
New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS, ToT win (6-5)
The Mirror vs. FII
The Mirror sweeps (11-0)
Lie vs. FII
New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS, ToT win (6-5)
Lifting Shadows vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS, ToT win (7-4)
Scarred vs. FII
Scarred sweeps (11-0)
Space-Dye Vest vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, LitS win (9-2)
Awake wins 91-30
nah I don't see it
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New Millennium vs. Awake
Wins everything (11-0)
You Not Me vs. Awake
Loses everything except LSOAD (1-10)
Peruvian Skies vs. Awake
Wins everything (11-0)
Hollow Years vs. Awake
Wins Innocence Faded, Voices, The Silent Man, Lie, LSOAD (5-6)
Burning My Soul vs. Awake
Loses everything (0-11)
Hell's Kitchen vs. Awake
Wins everything except 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (9-2)
Lines in the Sand vs. Awake
Wins everything (11-0)
Take Away My Pain vs. Awake
Loses everything except The Silent Man and LSOAD (2-9)
Just Let Me Breathe vs. Awake
Wins everything* (11-0)
Anna Lee vs. Awake
Wins everything except 6:00 and Space-Dye Vest (9-2)
Trial of Tears vs. Awake
Loses to 6:00, The Mirror, Scarred, Space-Dye Vest (7-4)
FII wins 77-34
*Yes, I'm weird. I know.
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6:00 vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (9-2)
Caught In A Web vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (8-3)
Innocence Faded vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (8-3)
Erotomania vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (8-3)
Voices vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (9-2)
The Silent Man vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, LitS,TAMP, ToT win (6-5)
The Mirror vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (9-2)
Lie vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (9-2)
Lifting Shadows vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (8-3)
Scarred vs. FII
Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (9-2)
Space-Dye Vest vs. FII
Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, ToT win (8-3)
Awake wins 93-30
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The Glass Prison
Blind Faith
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Disappear
The Great Debate
The Count of Tuscany
Misunderstood
The Shattered Fortress
A Nightmare to Remember
Wither
The Best of Times
A Rite of Passage
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Even wrong opinions are welcome here.
Trust me, I know.
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Mods, delete if you must, but I'd like an opinion on my work, please. :)
https://soundcloud.com/krotchraut/nightmare-to-remember-edit-sample
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Mods, delete if you must, but I'd like an opinion on my work, please. :)
*snip*
That works surprisingly well.
Blind Faith
The Glass Prison
The Great Debate
The Count of Tuscany
Disappear
The Shattered Fortress
Wither
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
The Best of Times
Misunderstood
A Nightmare to Remember
A Rite of Passage
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Mods, delete if you must, but I'd like an opinion on my work, please. :)
*snip*
That works surprisingly well.
Thanks. I quite enjoy this song, but the silly moments bring it down so much.
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Personally, I would take BC&SL over 6DoIT, but that's in term of the album as a whole.
I would take Glass Prison as a better song in the Twelve Step suite
I think A Nightmare to Remember is a better album opener than Glass Prison (not by much though)
Misunderstood is a better soft song than Wither (though I do like Wither, play it acoustically live sometimes, alongside Beneath the Surface, Regression/Spirit Carries On and hopefully Hollow Years, Wait for Sleep and Silent Man before too long)
Great Debate over Best of Times (though the latter does tug at the heartstrings)
6DoIT as a better epic than Count of Tuscany, though I'd take the Intro of Tuscany over Overture.
Also, is it just me or the riff in Misunderstood at 4:07 or so sounds a lot like an early version of the main riff of a Rite of Passage? It's got the same sort of pattern, and I'm pretty sure they're the same notes!
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Also, is it just me or the riff in Misunderstood at 4:07 or so sounds a lot like an early version of the main riff of a Rite of Passage? It's got the same sort of pattern, and I'm pretty sure they're the same notes!
Yep, i noticed it too back in the day.
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I think A Nightmare to Remember is a better album opener than Glass Prison (not by much though)
We have completely different opinions on that :lol TGP (IMO) blows ANTR out of the water. For one thing, ANTR is about 7 minutes too long. There is a point in that song after Jordan's solo where it's painfully obvious they are just stretching that song out for whatever reason. Had that song been cut by six or seven minutes it'd be that much better. TGP is one of if not the best 'heavy' DT song out there. ANTR (IMO) has one cool part.....the 'hoplessly drifting' section.
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Mods, delete if you must, but I'd like an opinion on my work, please. :)
https://soundcloud.com/krotchraut/nightmare-to-remember-edit-sample
I like it except for the fact that the soft part during the 12/8 (I believe that's the time signature there) is one of my favorite parts. But it does work very well despite the fact that I do actually like the whole song.