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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Kotowboy on October 04, 2013, 02:57:01 PM
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What say you DTF ?
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I chose Falling Into Infinity, Six Degrees and Octavarium.
:)
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Awake, Falling Into Infinity, SDOIT.
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Awake, Falling Into Infinity, SDOIT.
This exactly. Octavarium would be a close fourth, even though the album itself is my least favourite.
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FII
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Are you talking about the overall mix, or is this just another "what's the best DT album" thread? Mix wise I think DT12 has the best mix so far. Everything is very balanced, and I can hear Myung's bass and not just guitar and drums.
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Are you talking about the overall mix, or is this just another "what's the best DT album" thread? Mix wise I think DT12 has the best mix so far. Everything is very balanced, and I can hear Myung's bass and not just guitar and drums.
The best mix, production, mastering. Overall sonics.
I enjoy the HD TRacks of DT12 a lot at the moment. I think that will rank highly in the future.
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I like that JM is much more audible on DT12 but I preferred his tone on Six degrees and Train of Thought.
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DT12, I&W, and FII
I don't care about the snare, I love the sound of I&W.
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DT12, I&W, and FII
I don't care about the snare, I love the sound of I&W.
LOL triggered snare, that's one of the main reasons why the album sounds so 80's. I think it's part of the charm of that album, and production and mix was great.
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Awake, Falling Into Infinity, SDOIT.
:hifive:
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I&W, Awake. FII. Snare sound doesn't bother me on I&W. Awake is pure awesome, and I love how audible JM is on FII.
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FII, SDOIT, IaW.
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The HD Tracks of the last two with Mike Portnoy. The CDs may have been brickwalled, but everyone's parts sounded amazing regardless. Couple that with some dynamics and a lack of clipping and you have yourself a winner.
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FII sounds the best to my ears by far.
-J
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Awake, Falling Into Infinity, SDOIT.
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Awake is my favourite album and it sounds great overall, but SDOIT just sounds stunning in every way!
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Awake
Falling Into Infinity
Dream Theater
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FII, nothing else comes close.
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I&W (yeah despite the triggered snare)
Awake
FII
3 completely different sounding albums, each one being the best to represent each DT sound element, I&W for the proggy sound, Awake for the more heavy and dark stuff, and FII for the rock sound i love from DT.
If i had to choose one, it would probably be FII, amazing sound overall, very organic and real.
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FII, nothing else comes close.
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I&W, Awake, Falling Into Infinity, Scenes From a Memory and Six Degrees.
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Awake, Awake, and Awake.
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I agree with the general consensus here that FII sounds best from a sonic standpoint.
Which brings me to this thought....there is a good and not so good way to look at FII having the most well-received mix in their discography:
Good: Because FII is considered by many to be at the bottom of DT's albums, at least it can claim a pleasurable listening experience from a sonic/mix perspective. To many, it needs all of the help it can get, so a great mix keeps it from being considered any lower than it is.
Not So Good: Wouldn't ya know it? The album that is considered by many to be one of DT's lesser-received gets rewarded with arguably the best mix of them all. Imagine if all of their highest regarded albums sounded as good!
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ToT
FII
All others have too many pros and cons. Like I&W has "the snare," Awake is too thin and sterile for me, bass is too quiet in 6DOIT, SC too hot, SFAM is two mixes and so on.
I'm a sucker for ToT as I love Recto tone, JM is enough in the mix, and that thing is loud without clipping. FII is similar in most regards, which more respect for the keys compared with ToT.
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FII is the only one I voted for. In a discography of otherwise not-so-great sounding albums, FII always blows me away.
As an example, I don't particularly like New Millennium much as an individual song, but it sounds sooo good. And then the ones that I do like, ToT, LitS, Anna Lee, HY, and Hell's Kitchen... :hefdaddy
I try to imagine what ToT might sound like if it was produced similarly to BC&SL and it hurts.
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I would say FII. Drums sound amazing in it!
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What's so great about FII? I'm very unpicky when it comes to production so I seldom have an issue with how albums sound. Literally, the only time I've ever disliked the sound of any album was when I heard Richard Christy's drums on Death's final album, The Sound of Perseverance, and even that grew on me over time.
So basically, tell me what in particular you guys find so bonerific about FII.
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What's so great about FII? I'm very unpicky when it comes to production so I seldom have an issue with how albums sound. Literally, the only time I've ever disliked the sound of any album was when I heard Richard Christy's drums on Death's final album, The Sound of Perseverance, and even that grew on me over time.
So basically, tell me what in particular you guys find so bonerific about FII.
Every instrument sounds great individually, and the mix is great, so you can appreciate it all.
First of all, there's that warm, acoustic drum sound, that doesn't sound overprocessed to the point of sounding fake like some other albums, but doesn't sound dry and raw either. Just the right amount of reverb, all of the drums are clear, and the kick/snare have punch to them.
The bass sounds fat and smooth, and not distorted. JM is playing a lot of great stuff, and you can hear it all so clearly.
JP uses a lot of different guitars for a variety of classic guitar sounds, and he doesn't use a heavily overdriven metal sound. It's a good hard rock sound that works perfectly for that style of music. Couple that with rock playing on this album, such as the LITS solo, and you've got yourself a treat.
And Derek uses traditional sounds for a lot of the album, such as piano, and hammond organ, and some simple pads, that complements the rest of the music well.
It's a very natural and dynamic sounding album, with a lot of warmth and clarity. In conclusion, that is why in particular the album sounds so bonerific to me.
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Bonerific indeed :) Great post, Blobert :tup
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I guess Kevin the "caveman" Shirley really does know his shit. My surprise is disagreement with the poll is Awake, which I believe is second from the bottom for worst sounding DT album. It sounds dated, and for me is just missing depth.
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Every instrument sounds great individually, and the mix is great, so you can appreciate it all.
First of all, there's that warm, acoustic drum sound, that doesn't sound overprocessed to the point of sounding fake like some other albums, but doesn't sound dry and raw either. Just the right amount of reverb, all of the drums are clear, and the kick/snare have punch to them.
The bass sounds fat and smooth, and not distorted. JM is playing a lot of great stuff, and you can hear it all so clearly.
JP uses a lot of different guitars for a variety of classic guitar sounds, and he doesn't use a heavily overdriven metal sound. It's a good hard rock sound that works perfectly for that style of music. Couple that with rock playing on this album, such as the LITS solo, and you've got yourself a treat.
And Derek uses traditional sounds for a lot of the album, such as piano, and hammond organ, and some simple pads, that complements the rest of the music well.
It's a very natural and dynamic sounding album, with a lot of warmth and clarity. In conclusion, that is why in particular the album sounds so bonerific to me.
Great explanation. Agreed with everything here.
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No need to start a whole new thread but worst sounding album is either SC or WDADU.
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No need to start a whole new thread but worst sounding album is either SC or WDADU.
SC is not a bad sounding album, aside from the mastering. The mix is actually very good and clear. The problem is the over-compression, and the heavy clipping on the bass drum. But the rest of the production isn't bad at all.
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What's so great about FII? I'm very unpicky when it comes to production so I seldom have an issue with how albums sound. Literally, the only time I've ever disliked the sound of any album was when I heard Richard Christy's drums on Death's final album, The Sound of Perseverance, and even that grew on me over time.
So basically, tell me what in particular you guys find so bonerific about FII.
Every instrument sounds great individually, and the mix is great, so you can appreciate it all.
First of all, there's that warm, acoustic drum sound, that doesn't sound overprocessed to the point of sounding fake like some other albums, but doesn't sound dry and raw either. Just the right amount of reverb, all of the drums are clear, and the kick/snare have punch to them.
The bass sounds fat and smooth, and not distorted. JM is playing a lot of great stuff, and you can hear it all so clearly.
JP uses a lot of different guitars for a variety of classic guitar sounds, and he doesn't use a heavily overdriven metal sound. It's a good hard rock sound that works perfectly for that style of music. Couple that with rock playing on this album, such as the LITS solo, and you've got yourself a treat.
And Derek uses traditional sounds for a lot of the album, such as piano, and hammond organ, and some simple pads, that complements the rest of the music well.
It's a very natural and dynamic sounding album, with a lot of warmth and clarity. In conclusion, that is why in particular the album sounds so bonerific to me.
Perfect description, right down to the adjective "bonerific." :tup
-J
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Dream Theater don't have a " St. Anger ". They just have albums which don't sound as good as others.
WDADU is easily their most under produced album & SC has the hottest master.
FII should be the benchmark. DT12 HD comes pretty close - as does Octavarium ( for my money - i love that album ) .
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Dream Theater don't have a " St. Anger ". They just have albums which don't sound as good as others.
WDADU is easily their most under produced album & SC has the hottest master.
FII should be the benchmark. DT12 HD comes pretty close - as does Octavarium ( for my money - i love that album ) .
Octavarium is a very well mixed album, although my only criticism compared to other DT albums is that it lacks character. It's a bit plain sounding. I feel the same way about SFAM too, although that certainly doesn't hurt my enjoyment of that album either! And like all recent albums, 8V is a bit too compressed.
I wouldn't say it's one of their absolute best, but I'd probably say it's a better sounding album than anything since (except possibly DT12 HDTracks).
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So, basically - every 4th DT album sounds good.
#4 - FII
#8 - Octavarium
#12 - DT HD
:lol
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Interesting that everyone loves the production of FII. I have to agree that the instrumentation on FII is fantastic, but.. Personally I think considering all the extra work that went into production, that the vocals could have been handled better.
Personally I picked SDOIT, there's something about the keyboard sounds and ambient effects coming through at the right level that I really dig on Disk 1. Drums are really crisp aswell. Then I picked ToT mainly because I enjoy that more raw heavier sound and they didn't mess with it all too much production wise which is good when it isn't needed. Although can be a pretty bad fail when it is needed (WDADU? Decent songs that are growers, but they don't get their high points accentuated enough, I know it's 80s production though but even for then it was kind of at a poor standard). And then there's DT12, because I can actually hear Myung. Simple as that. XD
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Interesting that everyone loves the production of FII. I have to agree that the instrumentation on FII is fantastic, but.. Personally I think considering all the extra work that went into production, that the vocals could have been handled better.
Personally I picked SDOIT, there's something about the keyboard sounds and ambient effects coming through at the right level that I really dig on Disk 1. Drums are really crisp aswell. Then I picked ToT mainly because I enjoy that more raw heavier sound and they didn't mess with it all too much production wise which is good when it isn't needed. Although can be a pretty bad fail when it is needed (WDADU? Decent songs that are growers, but they don't get their high points accentuated enough, I know it's 80s production though but even for then it was kind of at a poor standard). And then there's DT12, because I can actually hear Myung. Simple as that. XD
WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
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My original 3 were:
Awake
Scenes
Octavarium
but I felt DT12 had to be represented too, because the song writing is so strong. So I had to take Scenes out, as I don't think the songs are overall as strong as DT12.
So...
Awake
Octavarium
Dream Theater
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WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
Nothing can touch the sound of early-mid '70s progressive rock albums, I thought that was a given.
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Awake, 6DOIT and Octavarium. :tup
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WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
Nothing can touch the sound of early-mid '70s progressive rock albums, I thought that was a given.
Nope, that's the first I've ever heard of that. There are plenty of better sounding albums imo.
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WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
Nothing can touch the sound of early-mid '70s progressive rock albums, I thought that was a given.
Nope, that's the first I've ever heard of that. There are plenty of better sounding albums imo.
With the loudness wars already plaguing the '80s, it's quite a widespread opinion. '70s prog albums had great mix (tons of different instruments, all audible, distinguishable, having space), dynamics and an overall unmatched, and inimitable sound. Of course this is still highly subjective, but I'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding album than, say, Octopus, Tarkus, Ocean (Eloy), The Wall, Masque, Time Robber (Omega), Fireball. Also bear in mind that I'm pretty much limiting myself to this genre, some '60s jazz records sound seriously insane, like you can actually smell the instruments around you. What are some of your best sounding albums?
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Awake, Falling Into Infinity, SDOIT.
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Troublegum by Therapy? is one of my favourite sounding albums.
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At this moment in time : -
Octavarium
Falling Into Infinity
DT12 HD
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Falling Into Infinity without a doubt. The mix is very good, even in general. Most DT records don't sound as good as 98% of the stuff I have, but this record and a couple of others sound very good. Six Degrees is a good number two, not far behind FII.
WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
Late 70's is the best period when it comes to good sound IMO. Just listen to some Earth, Wind & Fire from the mid 70's to 1980 - that's perfection!
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At this moment in time : -
Octavarium
Falling Into Infinity
DT12 HD
This, and Awake or Six Degrees would come 4th. I like to think of 8VM being an upgrade from the sound of Awake, being all airy and atmospheric.
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WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
Nothing can touch the sound of early-mid '70s progressive rock albums, I thought that was a given.
Nope, that's the first I've ever heard of that. There are plenty of better sounding albums imo.
With the loudness wars already plaguing the '80s, it's quite a widespread opinion. '70s prog albums had great mix (tons of different instruments, all audible, distinguishable, having space), dynamics and an overall unmatched, and inimitable sound. Of course this is still highly subjective, but I'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding album than, say, Octopus, Tarkus, Ocean (Eloy), The Wall, Masque, Time Robber (Omega), Fireball. Also bear in mind that I'm pretty much limiting myself to this genre, some '60s jazz records sound seriously insane, like you can actually smell the instruments around you. What are some of your best sounding albums?
For such a "widespread" opinion, I've never heard of it. Maybe it's just a prog thing? The loudness wars had nothing to do with the '80s. It wasn't until the '90s that albums got significantly louder.
I also haven't heard any recording from the '60s that I'd consider among the better sounding albums. The technology wasn't there yet. We must be judging completely different things here.
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WDADU sounds bad even for 1989. There are a ton of excellent sounding albums from the '80s and '70s, in many cases better than what albums sound like today, sadly.
Nothing can touch the sound of early-mid '70s progressive rock albums, I thought that was a given.
Nope, that's the first I've ever heard of that. There are plenty of better sounding albums imo.
With the loudness wars already plaguing the '80s, it's quite a widespread opinion. '70s prog albums had great mix (tons of different instruments, all audible, distinguishable, having space), dynamics and an overall unmatched, and inimitable sound. Of course this is still highly subjective, but I'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding album than, say, Octopus, Tarkus, Ocean (Eloy), The Wall, Masque, Time Robber (Omega), Fireball. Also bear in mind that I'm pretty much limiting myself to this genre, some '60s jazz records sound seriously insane, like you can actually smell the instruments around you. What are some of your best sounding albums?
For such a "widespread" opinion, I've never heard of it. Maybe it's just a prog thing? The loudness wars had nothing to do with the '80s. It wasn't until the '90s that albums got significantly louder.
I also haven't heard any recording from the '60s that I'd consider among the better sounding albums. The technology wasn't there yet. We must be judging completely different things here.
Well, I'm not lurking on any forums other than prog and Hammond organ oriented. The loudness thingy escalated in the '90s all right, but it had its early signs well into the '80s. For this, and for many other reasons (digital synths, plastic sound, plain characteristics) I mostly dislike the sound of the '80s. But, um, but what about your albums? For the sake of curiosity. :corn
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I voted Awake, FII, and SDOIT.... All killer sounding records!
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I&W
Awake
SDOIT
FII is great but the garbage can sounding snare kept me from selecting it over I&W. Yeah, I don't mind the triggered sound at all. Awake has the best overall sounding snare.
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FII is great but the garbage can sounding snare kept me from selecting it over I&W.
It's not my favorite snare sound either, but it sounds nothing like anything that looks like a garbage bin compared to DT12. That snare literally sounds like a deeply tuned plastic bucket, like the garbage bucket in my kitchen.
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FII
Awake
6DOIT(and for some reason I think CD 1 sounds better. Could that even be possible?)
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I don't mind the snare on FII - the one on TOT is more annoying for my money.
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I don't mind the snare on FII - the one on TOT is more annoying for my money.
I can understand that, as they were clearly going for a particular sound with those drums. I personally think it suits the music and gives it character, but I get why it would annoy some people. It's no St Anger, but it's going for a similar rawness, just a much more produced rawness.
And I love the snare sound on FII. It sounds like a real snare. I don't hear any comparison to a garbage can.
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No need to start a whole new thread but worst sounding album is either SC or WDADU.
SC is not a bad sounding album, aside from the mastering. The mix is actually very good and clear. The problem is the over-compression, and the heavy clipping on the bass drum. But the rest of the production isn't bad at all.
... which makes it the worst sounding album for DT in many views. Kotowboy didn't say it sounded bad in this post, just that it's the worst for DT standards. While there may be some good pros, you mention two big things which make that album a challenging listen for me at times. And the guitar clips out to my ears during the riff of CM after the intro when it's by itself.
This is kind of the same discussion as with DT12. The mix is good, master blows. I agree on both fronts. But the master kills SC more than DT for me.
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Scenes from a Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, and A Dramatic Turn of Events.
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No need to start a whole new thread but worst sounding album is either SC or WDADU.
SC is not a bad sounding album, aside from the mastering. The mix is actually very good and clear. The problem is the over-compression, and the heavy clipping on the bass drum. But the rest of the production isn't bad at all.
... which makes it the worst sounding album for DT in many views. Kotowboy didn't say it sounded bad in this post, just that it's the worst for DT standards. While there may be some good pros, you mention two big things which make that album a challenging listen for me at times. And the guitar clips out to my ears during the riff of CM after the intro when it's by itself.
This is kind of the same discussion as with DT12. The mix is good, master blows. I agree on both fronts. But the master kills SC more than DT for me.
The master of DT12 kills it for me, so it's always a factor for me too.
But in the case of SC, it doesn't sound as overly compressed to me compared to some other DT albums (such as BCASL or DT12, which are easily the worst offenders to my ears).
It is still louder than I would prefer, as I stated, but the only real annoyance for me is the slightly clippy sound of the bass drum. It doesn't hurt the mix as it does on DT12. SC sounds loud, but listenable to me. On DT12, I can hear it pumping and clipping continuously, especially on TEI. From the opening riff, it is crackling and pumping crazy bad.
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No need to start a whole new thread but worst sounding album is either SC or WDADU.
SC is not a bad sounding album, aside from the mastering. The mix is actually very good and clear. The problem is the over-compression, and the heavy clipping on the bass drum. But the rest of the production isn't bad at all.
... which makes it the worst sounding album for DT in many views. Kotowboy didn't say it sounded bad in this post, just that it's the worst for DT standards. While there may be some good pros, you mention two big things which make that album a challenging listen for me at times. And the guitar clips out to my ears during the riff of CM after the intro when it's by itself.
This is kind of the same discussion as with DT12. The mix is good, master blows. I agree on both fronts. But the master kills SC more than DT for me.
The master of DT12 kills it for me, so it's always a factor for me too.
But in the case of SC, it doesn't sound as overly compressed to me compared to some other DT albums (such as BCASL or DT12, which are easily the worst offenders to my ears).
It is still louder than I would prefer, as I stated, but the only real annoyance for me is the slightly clippy sound of the bass drum. It doesn't hurt the mix as it does on DT12. SC sounds loud, but listenable to me. On DT12, I can hear it pumping and clipping continuously, especially on TEI. From the opening riff, it is crackling and pumping crazy bad.
Solid points. I feel TDEN is the worst culprit of any one song. And the reason why I would put SC below DT12 overall sound wise is the mix does JM justice on DT12, so I am able to overlook some of the other shortcomings. IT is way too hot at points though, so I get your view on DT12.
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Solid points. I feel TDEN is the worst culprit of any one song. And the reason why I would put SC below DT12 overall sound wise is the mix does JM justice on DT12, so I am able to overlook some of the other shortcomings. IT is way too hot at points though, so I get your view on DT12.
Yeah, TDEN is the worst culprit, I think because the bass is much louder on that one, so after compression it oversaturates the low end where the bass drum is already clipping too. Given that it's just a big, loud, forceful metal song, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of it (I love it as is), but it would sound awful for a song with any more subtlety and dynamics.
JM's bass does sound excellent on DT12, because it has so much clarity and distinction compared to the guitars. JM's bass mix on SC is just fine (and in the case of TDEN, he's absolutely cranked), but with the distorted bass tone and doubling JP, there's less distinction from the guitars. I think that's the case most of the time on recent DT albums people complain about, rather than his mix actually being too low, as I never have any problem hearing his presence, and he's always noticeable when he deviates from the guitar part.
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Six Degrees
Falling Into Infinity
Awake
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Solid points. I feel TDEN is the worst culprit of any one song. And the reason why I would put SC below DT12 overall sound wise is the mix does JM justice on DT12, so I am able to overlook some of the other shortcomings. IT is way too hot at points though, so I get your view on DT12.
Yeah, TDEN is the worst culprit, I think because the bass is much louder on that one, so after compression it oversaturates the low end where the bass drum is already clipping too. Given that it's just a big, loud, forceful metal song, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of it (I love it as is), but it would sound awful for a song with any more subtlety and dynamics.
JM's bass does sound excellent on DT12, because it has so much clarity and distinction compared to the guitars. JM's bass mix on SC is just fine (and in the case of TDEN, he's absolutely cranked), but with the distorted bass tone and doubling JP, there's less distinction from the guitars. I think that's the case most of the time on recent DT albums people complain about, rather than his mix actually being too low, as I never have any problem hearing his presence, and he's always noticeable when he deviates from the guitar part.
I do think the JM factor on this album is an all-above thing. The mix is a little better, so even though yes he does double JP a lot, some albums it was an ...AJFA factor (not ever that bad). With that, his tone cuts thru MUCH better on DT12. It is Geddy Lee esque at times, compared to BCSL where it was way too distorted and blended in (he mailed that album in IMO). He has the intro on AROP, and some other lead parts, but those are not as powerful compared to other albums' lead parts, and he turns to a blended mush when doubling on BCSL.
Also, his playing is not as often doubling the guitar on this one (see STR chorus). And lastly, JP does not often have a rhythm track during his lead parts, letting the bass breath and be more noticeable.
So I while I agree we can mostly always hear JM, it's much better on DT12 due to all of the above. And it does help me view this one better sound wise vs. SC, solely on JM. As such, I am clearly biased! ;)