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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: jammindude on September 23, 2013, 09:52:10 PM
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Look...I'm not going to go to the other extreme and say it's a sonic masterpiece...
...but I got my official FLAC files through the mail today from Roadrunner...and even after converting to WAV and burning them onto a disc, I still have to say that the album sounds *WORLDS* better than the Soundcloud stream, and much MUCH better than I was led to believe by some of the critics.
Anyone else have the same experience? Maybe it was better to go in expecting to be as bad as Vapor Trails or the new QR album....because it's definitely better than those albums...by a long shot.
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I got my official FLAC files through the mail today from Roadrunner...and even after converting to WAV and burning them onto a disc, I still have to say...
Erm, just a quick note here, all those operations you mention are lossless conversions. So, by definition, the FLAC files should sound the same as the CD.
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It's also redundant converting to WAV first because any half-decent piece of software released in the last 10-15 years will have no trouble making an audio disc from FLAC files. :P
EDIT: Wait, are these the "high quality" FLAC file that came with buying the vinyl? Are the 16/44.1 or 24/96?
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It's also redundant converting to WAV first because any half-decent piece of software released in the last 10 years will have no trouble making an audio disc from FLAC files. :P
1) WAV is lossless? Since when?
2) I only have WM....does not play or convert FLAC files. (at least mine doesn't)
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1) WAV is lossless? Since when?
WAV is raw PCM. It is the definition of lossless, since there is no compression whatsoever. For that reason it's one of the oldest audio file formats in existence because all it is is raw PCM with a header upfront saying what the sampling rate is and the bit depth.
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Well...still doesn't stop the fact that WM doesn't recognize FLAC.
But we're off topic!
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Sorry, to stay for a moment longer off-topic: Bolsters raises a good point; what's the stats on those FLAC files? If they're just 16/48, then you might as well just rip the CD because that's what's on there.
If they're 24/96, I guess that would justify their existence, even though IMO those high sampling rates have their justification in the signal processing chain during production, not because the human ear can discern the difference.
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EDIT: Wait, are these the "high quality" FLAC file that came with buying the vinyl? Are the 16/44.1 or 24/96?
Yeah, they are 44.1/16. Was hoping for 96/24 or even 192/24. But I suppose that's what HDTracks is for :D
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The CD does sound much better than the stream, but I never thought it was that bad. Worlds better than ADTOE
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The CD does sound much better than the SoundCloud stream. I was pleasantly surprised when I got it in the mail this afternoon.
The sound still isn't great, though. It's still realllllyyyy damn loud, which is a bummer because I want to listen to the whole album at once but I get fatigued.
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As I posted in the main thread:
Ok so I'm still waiting for my amazon delivery later this week, but the autorip mp3s became available this morning so I downloaded them.
For anyone else who's done this - is it just me or does it sound a bit more compressed than the stream? I'm not sure what it is but it sounds a bit too OTT whereas the stream sounded fine to me.
Has anyone compared the amazon download with the stream, and noticed this problem, and how does this compare with the CD (mine apparently isn't arriving until Friday!).
Also, has anyone listened to the vinyl yet? How does it sound?
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Box set with the records arrived today, but i do not have a record player, so I wish I could tell you the difference, but . . .
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It's been really interesting to follow the sound quality discussion with this release. I mean I can definetly hear the points that the critics raise, but the extenct that some people go with it (not necessarily on this board, but elsewhere).. i don't know. I just doesn't bother me that much. I'm a new poster in here, so perhaps I should say that I'm a part time audio engineer/sound designer myself and I really like to listen to the production, critique it and pick it apart on every realease I get. To me the mix and the master are a big part of the "personality" of a given album. It's really more like an artistic statement than a technical detail, like some people seen to view it (especially mastering).
It would be really interesting (to me atleast :) ) to see how everyone is listening to this album. What format, what system, even the kind of room you're in. :biggrin: (It really does have a big effect) Plus I'm such gear nerd that I'd love to see your setups.
Now back to the topic...
I finally have the cd quality FLACs from roadrunner (still waiting for my boxset), and as expected the sound has gotten better and better starting from the stream, to spotify and now this. It's loud. That's the first thing that has to be said... But, I think it works really good for most of the songs on this album. It's a really fun, bad ass (like someone here discribed it :metal ) master. It has an almost physical impact, a puch in your chest. Works really well for metal IMHO. But ofcourse a master this loud has it's problems too. To me it's mostly TBP, STR and AFTR that suffer noticeably (and TLG to an extenct). I would really love to hear those songs on a FII like sound. And I mean "sound" all the way down to JP's guitar sound. But that's a personal preference and not my choise to make. Overall I think it's an improvement on ADTOE on some areas and really a record that I can enjoy blasting at full volume. :metal
One final point about listening fatique. I have never had listening fatique caused by a too loud master. But i've had it with mixes that are too heavy on mid range. Somewhere around 800Hz-4kHz. And ofcourse I often have it when working on something for too long.. or with too much volume but that's obvious. :) I know that's a personal thing and I know a lot of people who are a lot more sensitive to it than me.
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Got my downloads last night and after no desire to listen to the stream again I had my third full listen with the FLAC files. Of course it's better than the stream but as expected the vocals are still buried in one taxing (brick)wall of compressed sound that's in the way of details and subtleties. I'm getting somewhat used to a few of the songs now but still no clicking moments, most of them still don't feel like actual cohesive songs, still not much love for the album, and also not much hope of it getting better for me in time. :sadpanda:
Greetings...
Nef
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I realize DR numbers are not the ultimate factor describing dynamics in music but when it gets as low as 5-6 it is not possible to sound good:
https://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46312
I'm waiting for information about how the HDTracks and vinyl releases sound (not just numbers, opinions)!
The overcompressed sound has a huge impact on how people perceive the songs. Many people will say they don't like the album but not because the songs are bad... but because they couldn't focus on them and listen carefuly enough without drifting away or becoming fatigued... I am yet to see (hear) how I react but I'm holding off buying the CD until I find more info about other formats.
Any idea when exactly is the HDTracks release becoming available?
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I realize DR numbers are not the ultimate factor describing dynamics in music but when it gets as low as 5-6 it is not possible to sound good:
https://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46312
I'm waiting for information about how the HDTracks and vinyl releases sound (not just numbers, opinions)!
The overcompressed sound has a huge impact on how people perceive the songs. Many people will say they don't like the album but not because the songs are bad... but because they couldn't focus on them and listen carefuly enough without drifting away or becoming fatigued... I am yet to see (hear) how I react but I'm holding off buying the CD until I find more info about other formats.
Any idea when exactly is the HDTracks release becoming available?
That site has FII as DR6. I think it sounds good.
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That site has FII as DR6. I think it sounds good.
That's because FII is between DR6 - 7, not 5 - 6 ;)
But seriously, yes - FII sounds a lot better than what one might expect based solely on the DR number. It doesn't sound great, though and I do consider most DT albums as poorly sounding :P
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I realize DR numbers are not the ultimate factor describing dynamics in music but when it gets as low as 5-6 it is not possible to sound good:
https://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46312
I'm waiting for information about how the HDTracks and vinyl releases sound (not just numbers, opinions)!
The overcompressed sound has a huge impact on how people perceive the songs. Many people will say they don't like the album but not because the songs are bad... but because they couldn't focus on them and listen carefuly enough without drifting away or becoming fatigued... I am yet to see (hear) how I react but I'm holding off buying the CD until I find more info about other formats.
Any idea when exactly is the HDTracks release becoming available?
That site has FII as DR6. I think it sounds good.
Most of FII registers as a DR7 or 6 (and BMS registers a DR5 for me), which is why the DR value alone isn't a solid indicator. It doesn't tell you what is causing it to register that value.
If you look at the waveform for something from FII, it's visibly a dynamic album, but the bass drum clips out (as it does on SC too), which is probably what's causing the value, but it's definitely audibly more dynamic than the more recent albums.
The DR value is a fair rough measure of the compression on an album, but it's merely supporting evidence, not proof alone of an album sounding good or bad.
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Yes, FII is 6-7, but DT is 6-8.. so to me the DR value is pretty meningless when we are talking about what sounds good. It really oversimplifies the matter to a number wich wery often does not reflect the sound quality at all. At least to my ears. Yet it is often used as definitive evidence on the matter.. To me DT12 sounds a lot more compressed than FII. And if that can't translate itself to the DR values.. then I find it to be of no value to me :) .
Propably the best article on Loudness I have ever read is this:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm it's a long read but worth it. But the bottom line at least to me is that mastering is a creative choise. It's very hard to find a way to measure it in such a way that it could be used to rate the percieved dynamics for all kinds of music. And should all kinds of music even have high dynamic range? To me the answer is absolutely not. It's an artists choise for me. There can be good results with both ways.
As for DT12: as i said earlier I think the master works great for example in TEI.. not so good in TBP. Could there be a master that works great for both? Probably, but it would sound a lot different so it would be subjective opinion again :)
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Yes, FII is 6-7, but DT is 6-8.. so to me the DR value is pretty meningless when we are talking about what sounds good. It really oversimplifies the matter to a number wich wery often does not reflect the sound quality at all. At least to my ears. Yet it is often used as definitive evidence on the matter.. To me DT12 sounds a lot more compressed than FII. And if that can't translate itself to the DR values.. then I find it to be of no value to me :) .
Propably the best article on Loudness I have ever read is this:
https://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/loudness.htm it's a long read but worth it. But the bottom line at least to me is that mastering is a creative choise. It's very hard to find a way to measure it in such a way that it could be used to rate the percieved dynamics for all kinds of music. And should all kinds of music even have high dynamic range? To me the answer is absolutely not. It's an artists choise for me. There can be good results with both ways.
As for DT12: as i said earlier I think the master works great for example in TEI.. not so good in TBP. Could there be a master that works great for both? Probably, but it would sound a lot different so it would be subjective opinion again :)
Nice post :tup
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I'll just say that I'm very disappointed. For all DT do writing this crafted, intricate music, they almost NEVER put equal diligence in making sure the music sounds good.
I think the new album sounds OK. Below standard, though, like almost every DT album.
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The album is over compressed and mastered loudly, but really it doesn't take anything away from it and to me it's sounding great, especially in the car stereo.
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The album is over compressed and mastered loudly, but really it doesn't take anything away from it and to me it's sounding great, especially in the car stereo.
Because it's mastered for car stereo and ipod headphones while commuting or walking through the city ;)
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The CD does sound much better than the stream, but I never thought it was that bad. Worlds better than ADTOE
Yes. After listening to the stream - the CD was way brighter and fuller. Plus it sounded a lot more balanced and the snare wasn't so thuddy.
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The DR value is a fair rough measure of the compression on an album, but it's merely supporting evidence, not proof alone of an album sounding good or bad.
Blob - i'd love to know the DR of Death Magnetic. It's probably like 1 or something :lol
Now that I have the CD - I think that the sound of DT12 is much better than ADTOE.
There is just a lot more punch than ADTOE and you can actually hear every instrument clearly. Even Myung.
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The DR value is a fair rough measure of the compression on an album, but it's merely supporting evidence, not proof alone of an album sounding good or bad.
Blob - i'd love to know the DR of Death Magnetic. It's probably like 1 or something :lol
The sad part is that you're not far off. The Day That Never Comes reports a DR2, and the rest of the album reports DR4. The lead in the the solo of Unforgiven 3 is just pure white noise. Absolutely awful.
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I've spoken to some people that actually can't hear the distortion on DM - even if you show them the GH3 version alongside.
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Listening to the amazon autorip mp3s, while its definitely better than the stream its still kinda loud. I'll have to listen to the 5.1 versions and compare. I can hear obvious clipping at times as well. It sounds better than ADTOE on first listen production wise but hard to tell right now, will need more listens.
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Unfortunately (and I hope I'm not out of line here), I think sometimes it just comes down to the actual hearing of the people sitting in the producer's chair. DT and IM are two bands that frequently underwhelm in the sound department, and it's not a stretch to believe that John Petrucci and Steven Harris might suffer from less-than-average hearing, thanks to years on the road. Often, rock musicians late into their careers complain about that very issue. Yet these same musicians are also responsible fo signing off recordings. And in the case of bands like IM or DT, those same musicians take a very active role in the recording process.
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With the latest Maiden albums they have also had Kevin Shirley as producer, don't know about his hearing though.
But in the end it's still Steve Harris who gives thumbs up or not if the recording is ready for release, so you're right.
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With the latest Maiden albums they have also had Kevin Shirley as producer, don't know about his hearing though.
I haven't heard the recent IM albums, but his work on the other recent albums I've heard is great to me. I'd really like DT to work with him on another album.
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Listening to the amazon autorip mp3s, while its definitely better than the stream its still kinda loud. I'll have to listen to the 5.1 versions and compare. I can hear obvious clipping at times as well. It sounds better than ADTOE on first listen production wise but hard to tell right now, will need more listens.
As I said before, my Amazon autorip mp3s sound a bit worse than the stream did, though I've no idea why that should be the case! I'm hoping that when the CD arrives and I rip it myself it sounds better like the stream did.
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With the latest Maiden albums they have also had Kevin Shirley as producer, don't know about his hearing though.
But in the end it's still Steve Harris who gives thumbs up or not if the recording is ready for release, so you're right.
OK, but listen to the albums where Steve Harris essentially took the reigns (the Blaze ones), or his solo album. I think you'll hear what I mean.
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I find that this an album that sounds better the louder you play it... at "I'm working on the computer volumes" not great, but if you blast it through some real speakers and a sub it sounds gigantic and wonderful.
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I'm not a big fan of Kevin Shirley's recent work at all. Iron Maiden albums sound very poorly since Dance of Death and I don't know how much it's Shirley's fault or Harris's. I don't like how recent albums have too much focus on the three guitars and they're too loud and kind of cover each other. Also I hate the raw vocals, recorded usually in one take. I understand it's an artistic choice to make the records as much live as possible but I believe it could have been done better.
I like Steve's solo album, British Lion. It sounds much better than Iron Maiden and Steven Shirley was also involved with production and mixing on it.
When Steve was the main producer during the Blaze era - I love how The X Factor sounds. It's very dynamic, the bass and drums sound amazing and I like how the guitars are made a little softer. Virtual XI sounds tragically and is even worse than Dance of Death ;)
Generally, when musicians are involved with production of their albums, mixing and mastering... it doesn't come out right. Steven Wilson is an exception ;)
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What do you guys view as best examples of a good sounding record in this genre? I find this to be such a subjective thing that it would really help with gettin some context in this. I tend to favor albums wich have a personal sound, even with flaws, over albums that have no glaring problems but somehow lack character. For example: Opeths Still Life. I love the original mix. Acoustic guitars sound so beautiful and Mikaels clean voice conveys the emotion perfectly. It all adds to the character of that record. And of course talking about Steven Wilson.. I love Fear of A Blank Planet. The way he mixes the guitars on that album. It's constantly evolving, nearly every part has a different sound but still he manages to keep the whole thing coherent. It's really nice. But the Incident not so much.. example of an album that leaves me un enthusiastic. And I mean that only for it's sound. The music is another story. Musically I like it over FOABP.
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(https://i.imgur.com/fBHG5CK.png)
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I don't like the original mix of Still Life. It has random volume drop-outs and the acoustic guitars on Benighted sound forcefully loud and not beautiful at all. The 5.0 mix made a few years ago is great, I only listen to this version nowadays.
My favourite souding recent Prog Metal albums are the ones made by Jens Bogren. This year, we had Haken's The Mountain and Leprous' Coal. Many here may have heard his work on James LaBrie's Impermanent Resonance, even though it's not exactly Prog Metal you can still hear how good it sounds.
Haken's The Mountain has a surprisingly strong Bass Guitar for Prog Metal standards. You can hear most Bass lines without additional EQing, the Bass suffers only when the music gets really busy during the heavier sections. The album also "dares" to be actually quiet during sections/songs that are supposed to be quiet as opposed to compressing everything to 11.
He was also responsible for Opeth's Ghost Reveries and Watershed.
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Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.
Surround downmix to stereo it is :)
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The album sounds great to me. I can even hear John Myung for a lot of the time so it is great by default.
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Yes Jens is great.. so many great records and with nearly perfect track record. Amazing work. Still I prefer the original Still Life much much more. The Mountain sounds great, perhaps the best sounding record for this fall for me. But I have to wonder what would DT12 sound like with that exact production? I think it would lack too much punch for the likes of TEI and IT. So the end product would be that much blander perhaps..
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I agree that TEI sounds fine the way it is. This song really calls for a lot of dynamic compression. But right after it, TLG sounds really bad. TLG is supposed to start with an 80's-guitar-vibe, JP playing alone - than the whole band kicks you in the face - than JP alone again - than the band kicks in again, only it doesn't. Everything is compressed to 11, the whole band kicking in can't sound loud because JP alone is already at the ceiling. The insane amount of compression really works against the artistic vision in this case.
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Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.
Surround downmix to stereo it is :)
I'm considering doing this once my CD/DVD combo arrives, particularly if the default stereo mix is so bad. Is there any particular process that "downmixing" should follow? I have no idea how I'd go about doing it.
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I agree that TEI sounds fine the way it is. This song really calls for a lot of dynamic compression. But right after it, TLG sounds really bad. TLG is supposed to start with an 80's-guitar-vibe, JP playing alone - than the whole band kicks you in the face - than JP alone again - than the band kicks in again, only it doesn't. Everything is compressed to 11, the whole band kicking in can't sound loud because JP alone is already at the ceiling. The insane amount of compression really works against the artistic vision in this case.
I agree on the TLG intro, but I think that could have been addressed on mix as well. Why double the guitar so prominently if you wanted to accentuate the band coming in? The compression doesn't really change the apparent londness on the guitar in that section.
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Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.
Surround downmix to stereo it is :)
I'm considering doing this once my CD/DVD combo arrives, particularly if the default stereo mix is so bad. Is there any particular process that "downmixing" should follow? I have no idea how I'd go about doing it.
Depends what you use - foobar2000 has a handy downmix DSP that you can either use as a filter or to convert to new tracks permanently.
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Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.
That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.
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(https://s9.postimg.org/m6u08egff/bigger_picture.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m6u08egff/)
HD tracks vs cd, just a little bit better, but sounds better (like adtoe did)
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(https://s9.postimg.org/m6u08egff/bigger_picture.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m6u08egff/)
HD tracks vs cd, just a little bit better, but sounds better (like adtoe did)
That's great!
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That looks a TON better! I want that!
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Can anyone check out what the "mastered for iTunes" version is like? Any different than the CD?
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So, what's the best way to listen to the album using a stereo set? 5.1 mix downsized to 2.0?
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The HD Tracks version is a very respectable DR12.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46804
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My CD/DVD arrives tomorrow, but I've been listening to the album on Spotify, and it sounds MUCH better than the Soundcloud stream. I use the EQ on my phone, which helps to bring out certain things, but especially the snare has a bit more snap, and the bass sounds very rich and full. IMO the best bass sound in their catalogue. The guitar also sounds huge and very "chocolate-cakey", most notably in the chorus to TBP. Enjoying this album more and more!
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Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.
That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.
This is the worst brickwalled album I've gotten in 2013 as far as I can remember, and it's not like Dream Theater are the stars of mainstream music that requires the brickwalling to stand out on the radio.
The 5.1 to stereo sounds just fine though, and alleviates a lot of my issues with the album - it's impressive how something as simple as a mix can influence how an album comes across.
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My CD/DVD arrives tomorrow, but I've been listening to the album on Spotify, and it sounds MUCH better than the Soundcloud stream. I use the EQ on my phone, which helps to bring out certain things, but especially the snare has a bit more snap, and the bass sounds very rich and full. IMO the best bass sound in their catalogue. The guitar also sounds huge and very "chocolate-cakey", most notably in the chorus to TBP. Enjoying this album more and more!
Yeah I know. I listened to the album on there at midnight on Monday morning and it was instantly better. Just so much more top end.
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Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.
That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.
This is the worst brickwalled album I've gotten in 2013 as far as I can remember, and it's not like Dream Theater are the stars of mainstream music that requires the brickwalling to stand out on the radio.
The 5.1 to stereo sounds just fine though, and alleviates a lot of my issues with the album - it's impressive how something as simple as a mix can influence how an album comes across.
You obviously never heard the new QR album. Great album, but WOW...that things sounds like absolute dog snot.
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I understand that there are technical reasons why some people don't like the sound.
But I think it sounds good.
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You obviously never heard the new QR album. Great album, but WOW...that things sounds like absolute dog snot.
Never listened to Queensryche in my life but I wanna check out how bad this album sounds :lol
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Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.
Surround downmix to stereo it is :)
You must be doing something wrong then.
https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46802 (https://dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46802)
Edit: Nevermind, apparently the person who made that also used the 5.1 audio downmixed to stereo and not the stereo mix. Since none of my dvd/blu-ray players support DVD-A, I can't comment on that mix.
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You obviously never heard the new QR album. Great album, but WOW...that things sounds like absolute dog snot.
Never listened to Queensryche in my life but I wanna check out how bad this album sounds :lol
I really like the album but even I can hear the clipping, and I usually don't unless it's blatant (Death Magnetic and vapour Trails)
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(https://i.imgur.com/fBHG5CK.png)
How did you convert to Stereo? I've tried using Downmix to Stereo in Foobar2000 and it just gives me smashed together mess of all of the 5.1 channels. I tried going to Audacity and deleting the channels I didn't need, but the tracks are not balanced in stereo properly.
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Yes, too bad, because the songs had potential. Much worse than Death Magnetic or Vapor Trails.
I can listen to the album (QR) with adding bass and cutting treble, but after the 35 minutes my ears bleed.
Can anyone name a worse mixed/mastered album ? I'm just curious.
DT is nowhere near that disaster. Some clipping, I can live with, otherwise kick*ss-in your face sound. In my opinion, the best production job of JP.
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I personally love how DT12 sounds. It's not as dry as SC and not so compressed that it hurts to listen to.
It actually sounds good turned up - unlike a lot of brickwalled albums.
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(https://i.imgur.com/fBHG5CK.png)
How did you convert to Stereo? I've tried using Downmix to Stereo in Foobar2000 and it just gives me smashed together mess of all of the 5.1 channels. I tried going to Audacity and deleting the channels I didn't need, but the tracks are not balanced in stereo properly.
You download SoX from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/?source=navbar
and use this command line: sox.exe "input file name" "ouput file name" remix -m 1v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,5v0.2929 2v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,6v0.2929 norm
This will give you a stereo wave file that sounds right.
If you need to convert it to 16bit 44,1kHz for burning on a CD, use this: sox.exe "input file name" -b 16 "ouput file name" rate 44100 dither -s
There is no practical quality loss by doing so.
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You download SoX from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sox/?source=navbar
and use this command line: sox.exe "input file name" "ouput file name" remix -m 1v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,5v0.2929 2v0.2929,3v0.2071,4v0.2071,6v0.2929 norm
This will give you a stereo wave file that sounds right.
If you need to convert it to 16bit 44,1kHz for burning on a CD, use this: sox.exe "input file name" -b 16 "ouput file name" rate 44100 dither -s
There is no practical quality loss by doing so.
Thanks. You just saved me a from getting a huge headache. lol
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I goy my Deluxe edition today. I really like it, I cannot stop playing it :metal
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Yes, too bad, because the songs had potential. Much worse than Death Magnetic or Vapor Trails.
I can listen to the album (QR) with adding bass and cutting treble, but after the 35 minutes my ears bleed.
Can anyone name a worse mixed/mastered album ? I'm just curious.
DT is nowhere near that disaster. Some clipping, I can live with, otherwise kick*ss-in your face sound. In my opinion, the best production job of JP.
No...seriously...I can't. As bad as VT and DM were, the new QR just really took hot mastering to an entirely new level that I didn't think was possible. The quality music and the short length of the album help a bit...but that album is a hard listen. Great music, absolute crap mastering. Tom Baker should get his head out his ass or quit mastering CD's forever.
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Apparently there's two new QR albums ? Which one is the worse one ?
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Frequency Unknown, The self titled is very very good, it just has terrible mastering.
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Yeah - I meant the mastering. JammingDude said it has worse audio than Death magnetic - I just wanted to hear it :P
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Yeah - I meant the mastering. JammingDude said it has worse audio than Death magnetic - I just wanted to hear it :P
I agree on that, it sounds more annoying than DM, worst master I've ever heard.
I like QR a lot and I tried hard to like this album, but after four listens I just can't spin it anymore.
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I've never heard Frequency Unknown...but it's not really a QR album. It says it is on the cover...but it's not. It's the ex-lead singer with a cover band. Don't buy it because it is not really QR. The self-titled album is the real QR...and it is one of the best albums that came out in the last year, but the worst mastering I have ever heard in my entire life.
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Pathetically, the dvd-a 24/96 stereo mix is actually WORSE than the cd.
Surround downmix to stereo it is :)
I'm considering doing this once my CD/DVD combo arrives, particularly if the default stereo mix is so bad. Is there any particular process that "downmixing" should follow? I have no idea how I'd go about doing it.
Depends what you use - foobar2000 has a handy downmix DSP that you can either use as a filter or to convert to new tracks permanently.
So step 1 is to rip with something like dvd decryptor? or maybe VLC for that matter?
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So the HDTracks version is apparently a DR12? That's a greater dynamic range than IaW, just to put that in perspective.
I'm thinking I really need this.
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So the HDTracks version is apparently a DR12? That's a greater dynamic range than IaW, just to put that in perspective.
I'm thinking I really need this.
Dude! Get it! It's amazing. I mean, the snare still sounds fucking weird, but the mix is WAAAAAAAY better. I just got to Enigma Machine and I have it cranking loud in my headphones and it sounds soooooo huge. The drums actually have tons of punch and the Rudess is much clearer. Everything has space to play.
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Listening to the 5.1 right now....I was about to claim that it was a bit TOO subtle. But the guitar solo from Surrender to Reason just did a bunch of 360's, so I'm happy.
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Converted my Flac download that came with the vinyl to Apple lossless, can certainly tell a difference :)
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So the HDTracks version is apparently a DR12? That's a greater dynamic range than IaW, just to put that in perspective.
I'm thinking I really need this.
To keep things in perspective, the HDTracks version of ADTOE contained a lot of inaudible drum peaks that "mathematically" look like a huge improvement but don't matter for human listening. Still haven't heard the DT12 HDTracks version, but it will probably be the same: better than the CD, but not as good as DR thinks it is.
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So the HDTracks version is apparently a DR12? That's a greater dynamic range than IaW, just to put that in perspective.
I'm thinking I really need this.
To keep things in perspective, the HDTracks version of ADTOE contained a lot of inaudible drum peaks that "mathematically" look like a huge improvement but don't matter for human listening. Still haven't heard the DT12 HDTracks version, but it will probably be the same: better than the CD, but not as good as DR thinks it is.
I don't agree that the drum peaks are inaudible. If anything that, for me, is one of the main benefits of a less hot/loud master - the drum hits sit on top of the sound and so don't push the other instruments quieter each time.
I wouldn't really call myself an audiophile - for example I've never had any problem with the sound on any previous DT album. But even I have found the amazon autorip mp3s a bit too loud and tiring, whereas the HD tracks sound really nice.
EDIT: I should add that the production is still very in-your-face, but with the HD tracks you can see what they were going for, and I think it works really well.
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So the HDTracks version is apparently a DR12? That's a greater dynamic range than IaW, just to put that in perspective.
I'm thinking I really need this.
To keep things in perspective, the HDTracks version of ADTOE contained a lot of inaudible drum peaks that "mathematically" look like a huge improvement but don't matter for human listening. Still haven't heard the DT12 HDTracks version, but it will probably be the same: better than the CD, but not as good as DR thinks it is.
I just did a direct comparison of the samples on the page, and the CD version, and while you're right that it's not as drastic an improvement as the DR number would suggest, it is still an improvement if you're on good equipment. It's definitely worth the money if you're someone who is bothered by the compression, but maybe not as noticeable on something like an iThing.
And also, while doing the comparison, I think I noticed a drum cut point in TEI. /offtopic
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Oh, it definitely sounds a lot better. I was just commenting on how the DR value is higher than IAW but the album probably still sounds less dynamic than IAW does to a human listener. I'll reserve final judgment until I get to compare the two versions in a few hours ;)
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The hd-tracks version is solid, stupid that the dvd-a stereo isn't the same - means people that want surround and stereo mixes have to either double-dip or pirate which is utter rubbish, plain and simple.
The snare does sound a little odd, but the rest of the album sounds good now :)
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My vinyl copy is still in the mail, but DR Database (https://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=&search_album=Dream+Theater) is saying the vinyl has an overall dynamic range of 13, with a min of 12 and a max of 14.
This is compared to 6/5/8 for the CD and MP3s, and 12/11/13 for HD Tracks and the DVD-A.
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I have the vinyl and it sounds awesome. Every time I'm home I just listen to the analogue. It has a very beautiful and deep sound, with a lot of dynamics. If you look on this page (https://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=46884) you will see that it says "Dream Theater used definitly a seperate Master for the analogue and the HDTrack-Version of their album. Themusic sound very clear and warm. The bass and specialy the guitar and drumparts are much more transparent to hear out."
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Yeah, I got the vinyl, and it sounds wonderful
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Frequency Unknown, The self titled is very very good, it just has terrible mastering.
imo FU has shit songs and shit mastering and the real QR has really good songs with shit mastering. Good job the ST was short. I couldn't have listened to 60mins worth without wanting to beat my head with a brick no matter how great the songs.
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If the DT12 HD is truly that much better, I'll probably buy it. The sound quality of DT12 is quite bad.
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Unfortunately most of you have to realize that the reason why albums are produced/mastered the way they are these days is because the target consumer is just going to listen to it through their head phones while doing something else, and not really even focus on the music. It's a shame, because while I think the album sounds fine, it really could sound better, but people like us who actually sit down with albums and listen to them in a traditional way are becoming an endangered breed. Who knows, maybe it will swing the our way in the coming years, but for now, we're just not the target audience.
That being said, I can say that it sounds great on my record player, and it's definitely going to get a shit ton of plays from me.
We're a dying breed.
Doesn't sound that great to me (CD so far), but it won't prevent me from listening to it.
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If the DT12 HD is truly that much better, I'll probably buy it. The sound quality of DT12 is quite bad.
Even though it's the same mix, the better master really brings out more details, especially in the cymbals/hats and keys.
It baffles me that this master wasn't put on the CD. At worst, people won't know the difference, and at best it has made a big difference to people's ability to enjoy the album.
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BECOZ ITS NOT TEH LOUD !!!!! :soon: HAZ TO BE DA LOUDEST ON DA MTVZ !!!!!! DAT WAY PPL WILL NOE DAT DEY R DA BEZT !!!!!!
:metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
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With regards to Frequency Unknown, I sent an e-mail to Cleopatra Records or whatever label that released it about the crap sound quality and they sent me a remixed version of the album. The remix sounds way better than the original mix. Sadly, the remixed version of Frequency Unknown sounds way better than the self-titled Queensryche album.
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With regards to Frequency Unknown, I sent an e-mail to Cleopatra Records or whatever label that released it about the crap sound quality and they sent me a remixed version of the album. The remix sounds way better than the original mix. Sadly, the remixed version of Frequency Unknown sounds way better than the self-titled Queensryche album.
That's probably the only category that FU will win in that comparison...but that's also setting the bar really low. (considering that the new QR album is the worst mastered album I've ever heard....yes, worse than Death Magnetic...worse than Vapor Trails).
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I have to say that while I had some problems with the stream, now that I have the CD (I think it's the 5.1 mix, downmixed, not quite sure, as I got it from my dad via Dropbox), everything is fine. But then, I'm not a person that is bothered by the audio quality easily anyway, so...
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I have to say that while I had some problems with the stream, now that I have the CD (I think it's the 5.1 mix, downmixed, not quite sure, as I got it from my dad via Dropbox), everything is fine. But then, I'm not a person that is bothered by the audio quality easily anyway, so...
Agree. I'm not overly bothered by a hot master - as long as it's not constantly distorting. I'm happy with the CD for out and about listening and
shall keep the HD version for home listening on my decent speakers.
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Bought the HD version today. It sounds significantly better. It's not night and day, but it's definitely an improvement.
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The vinyl sounds FAN TAS TIC. RAWWWk
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The HD of DT12 sounds like a heavier version of FII to me now. With less Reverb .
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I have to say that while I had some problems with the stream, now that I have the CD (I think it's the 5.1 mix, downmixed, not quite sure, as I got it from my dad via Dropbox), everything is fine. But then, I'm not a person that is bothered by the audio quality easily anyway, so...
Agree. I'm not overly bothered by a hot master - as long as it's not constantly distorting. I'm happy with the CD for out and about listening and
shall keep the HD version for home listening on my decent speakers.
You can compress it via software for 'out and about' as it plays. That way it doesn't screw it over for everyone who wants an uncompressed version too, because you can't uncompress albums, and unlike Dream Theater's latest albums, most aren't on hd tracks or have good dvd-a releases.
On another note, the Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds hd tracks also sound lovely, although double-dipping for it this many years on is more than a bit lame.
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I think I'm going to cave and buy the HDTracks. The cd is way too loud, and I hear keyboard parts that are barely noticeable. I don't usually care about the sound that much, but this is just a bit too much for me. I hate listening to my Ipod at night with a good volume set, and then Surrender to Reason, The Bigger Picture, or The Enemy Inside begin which scares the crap out of me.
I couldn't really tell the difference from the samples because they were parts that I had no problem with on the the cd.
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I'm on the fence on whether or not I should get them. Let me know what you think.
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HDTracks for DT12 are phenomenal. That is all.
Oh, and they're also pretty fantastic for SC, BC&SL, and ADTOE. Worth it.
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I bought the HD Tracks...
MY GOD....Everything I found wrong with the sound has been fixed. I can hear all the subtle qualities in each song that the cd version drowns out. The mix is the same but everything is at least audible.
I agree that we all got shafted....big time.
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HDTracks for DT12 are phenomenal. That is all.
Oh, and they're also pretty fantastic for SC, BC&SL, and ADTOE. Worth it.
Maybe, I'm just hesistant to buy all these records again, since outside of ADTOE, the other three are bottom-tier albums for me anyway.
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HDTracks for DT12 are phenomenal. That is all.
Oh, and they're also pretty fantastic for SC, BC&SL, and ADTOE. Worth it.
Maybe, I'm just hesistant to buy all these records again, since outside of ADTOE, the other three are bottom-tier albums for me anyway.
I was thinking that myself. However, maybe it could shine a new light on the songs.
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Sorry if this has been asked but is the HD tracks version different than the two audio tracks found on the DVD edition of DT12? I thought the stereo and 5.1 versions on the DVD were far better than the CD version.
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I still think the cd sounds great.
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Sorry if this has been asked but is the HD tracks version different than the two audio tracks found on the DVD edition of DT12? I thought the stereo and 5.1 versions on the DVD were far better than the CD version.
The HDTracks/vinyl versions used the best sounding master. The DVD 5.1 mix is better than the CD (not sure how it stacks up against the HDTracks), and I can't remember about the DVD stereo mix. I had a feeling it was the same master as the CD though.