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I just came across this, which has some segments from the new interview.

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-couldnt-relate-to-dream-theaters-new-material/ (https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-couldnt-relate-to-dream-theaters-new-material/)

This is actually very interesting, because having heard most of his interviews about the matter, this is the first time I have ever heard MP suggest that the MUSIC Dream Theater was making when he left wasn't jiving with him like it used to; he only mentioned relations between band members as the reason why he left. If true, it's possible that MP didn't have as much influence over the music as people think. Apparently he also says he has heard the new material and said "when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea." This could mean either DT12 is totally unlike what he did with DT in the past, or that DT12 is like what he did in the past and he's tired of it (or maybe a little of both); but if true, why would he be interested in rejoining DT?

He's not going to be rejoining DT. I thought we were done speculating this.

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
He's not going to be rejoining DT. I thought we were done speculating this.

Where does this thread ever speculate whether he will rejoin DT? Where is it in the link, article, or my words?

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:17:04 PM

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
He's not going to be rejoining DT. I thought we were done speculating this.

Where does this thread ever speculate whether he will rejoin DT? Where is it in the link, article, or my words?

I meant 'we' as the forum as a whole. It's been done again and again in several threads.

Okay, this is bothering me, so a serious question:  has Portnoy been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?  He mentions it from time to time but from all the videos and interviews I've seen, none of his behavior suggests he has even a mild case.

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:17:54 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:17:04 PM

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
He's not going to be rejoining DT. I thought we were done speculating this.

Where does this thread ever speculate whether he will rejoin DT? Where is it in the link, article, or my words?

I meant 'we' as the forum as a whole. It's been done again and again in several threads.

So then we don't need to do it here, especially since I never intended to bring that into a new thread  ;)

I find more interesting his comment about the upcoming album and how he felt about DT's music at the time just before he left.

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:20:08 PM

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:17:54 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:17:04 PM

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
He's not going to be rejoining DT. I thought we were done speculating this.

Where does this thread ever speculate whether he will rejoin DT? Where is it in the link, article, or my words?

I meant 'we' as the forum as a whole. It's been done again and again in several threads.

So then we don't need to do it here, especially since I never intended to bring that into a new thread  ;)

See OP:

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:14:27 PM
This is actually very interesting, because having heard most of his interviews about the matter, this is the first time I have ever heard MP suggest that the MUSIC Dream Theater was making when he left wasn't jiving with him like it used to; he only mentioned relations between band members as the reason why he left. If true, it's possible that MP didn't have as much influence over the music as people think. Apparently he also says he has heard the new material and said "when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea." This could mean either DT12 is totally unlike what he did with DT in the past, or that DT12 is like what he did in the past and he's tired of it (or maybe a little of both); but if true, why would he be interested in rejoining DT?

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:21:32 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:20:08 PM

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:17:54 PM

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:17:04 PM

Quote from: ResultsMayVary on September 07, 2013, 03:15:45 PM
He's not going to be rejoining DT. I thought we were done speculating this.

Where does this thread ever speculate whether he will rejoin DT? Where is it in the link, article, or my words?

I meant 'we' as the forum as a whole. It's been done again and again in several threads.

So then we don't need to do it here, especially since I never intended to bring that into a new thread  ;)

See OP:

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:14:27 PM
This is actually very interesting, because having heard most of his interviews about the matter, this is the first time I have ever heard MP suggest that the MUSIC Dream Theater was making when he left wasn't jiving with him like it used to; he only mentioned relations between band members as the reason why he left. If true, it's possible that MP didn't have as much influence over the music as people think. Apparently he also says he has heard the new material and said "when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea." This could mean either DT12 is totally unlike what he did with DT in the past, or that DT12 is like what he did in the past and he's tired of it (or maybe a little of both); but if true, why would he be interested in rejoining DT?

Again, that is neither a speculation about whether MP WILL join DT, nor an invitation for others to speculate about whether MP WILL join DT. Rather, that is "speculating" --if you'd like to keep that word-- as to why would MP want to rejoin DT if he were tired of the music DT makes, or whether he just didn't like the new album etc.

I hope this helps.

Kinda figured he'd say the new DT isn't his cup of tea :P

Quote from: Dark Castle on September 07, 2013, 03:27:44 PM
Kinda figured he'd say the new DT isn't his cup of tea :P

I honestly never thought that he would say that (although I didn't hear the new album yet), or that he was growing further apart from the music DT was making; especially since I sorta took for granted that he got so many of his musical ideas put into the songs.

Quote from: theseoafs on September 07, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
Okay, this is bothering me, so a serious question:  has Portnoy been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?  He mentions it from time to time but from all the videos and interviews I've seen, none of his behavior suggests he has even a mild case.

snapple likes this post

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 03:28:53 PM

Quote from: Dark Castle on September 07, 2013, 03:27:44 PM
Kinda figured he'd say the new DT isn't his cup of tea :P

I honestly never thought that he would say that (although I didn't hear the new album yet), or that he was growing further apart from the music DT was making; especially since I sorta took for granted that he got so many of his musical ideas put into the songs.

I never thought he would say that either.  In fact, I'm impressed that he didn't say anything passive aggressive (aside from some typical "i can't talk about it without being torn to shreds" while he in fact was talking about it).  Even his opinion on current Dream Theater is totally respectful.  I always thought he would bash it in some childish way like he kind of did before (with the "rewriting the past" comment) but he basically says, "It's great, I'm just not into that style of music." 

I mean, I am honestly blown away.  It's pretty cool to just state his personal preference without resorting to bashing. 

Eh, I believe him. I mean, he was an alcoholic and from what we can see, he's obsessive about some things. And we don't know everything that happens in his personal life, so we're in no place to doubt his word.

Quote from: theseoafs on September 07, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
Okay, this is bothering me, so a serious question:  has Portnoy been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?  He mentions it from time to time but from all the videos and interviews I've seen, none of his behavior suggests he has even a mild case.

Really? Watch some of the docs where it shows him in his studio. Look at his video and audio collection, it's just plain nuts. It's like he has to have everything and it needs to be in a precise/cataloged order.. Or when he talks about watching a movie and liking it that he goes out and gets everything that director has done and watches them.  I think it's obvious from everything I've seen since the beginning he's OCD big time. Do I care? Nah, I have it to some point. I think MP also have some ADHD going on too. Once again no big deal. It's pretty common for recovering alcoholics to need something else to focus on and MP's is just taking it to the max for everything he does. Good for him, probably drives his wife nuts as he said! LOL

Quote from: rush-signals on September 07, 2013, 04:49:41 PM

Quote from: theseoafs on September 07, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
Okay, this is bothering me, so a serious question:  has Portnoy been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?  He mentions it from time to time but from all the videos and interviews I've seen, none of his behavior suggests he has even a mild case.

Really? Watch some of the docs where it shows him in his studio. Look at his video and audio collection, it's just plain nuts. It's like he has to have everything and it needs to be in a precise/cataloged order.. Or when he talks about watching a movie and liking it that he goes out and gets everything that director has done and watches them.  I think it's obvious from everything I've seen since the beginning he's OCD big time. Do I care? Nah, I have it to some point. I think MP also have some ADHD going on too. Once again no big deal. It's pretty common for recovering alcoholics to need something else to focus on and MP's is just taking it to the max for everything he does. Good for him, probably drives his wife nuts as he said! LOL

Yeah, I thought his OCD was pretty obvious once you listen to some of his commentaries on his drum cam version of Budokan and Score, as well as all the behind the scenes footage on the Dream Theater DVDs (I realize most people don't have his drum cam DVDs).

Quote from: Mike Portnoybut when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea. It's great, but I couldn't relate to it anymore.

This REALLY looks like he's talking about ADTOE, not the new album. Unless we know from a fact elsewhere that he has heard DT12, I get the impression that he's talking about ADTOE here.

Quote from: rush-signals on September 07, 2013, 04:49:41 PM

Quote from: theseoafs on September 07, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
Okay, this is bothering me, so a serious question:  has Portnoy been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?  He mentions it from time to time but from all the videos and interviews I've seen, none of his behavior suggests he has even a mild case.

Really? Watch some of the docs where it shows him in his studio. Look at his video and audio collection, it's just plain nuts. It's like he has to have everything and it needs to be in a precise/cataloged order.. Or when he talks about watching a movie and liking it that he goes out and gets everything that director has done and watches them.  I think it's obvious from everything I've seen since the beginning he's OCD big time. Do I care? Nah, I have it to some point. I think MP also have some ADHD going on too. Once again no big deal. It's pretty common for recovering alcoholics to need something else to focus on and MP's is just taking it to the max for everything he does. Good for him, probably drives his wife nuts as he said! LOL

This was talked about in another thread and to restate what I said, in my (not so) expert opinion, he certainly does have OCD.  OCD is a VERY complex disorder that ranges from mild things like he probably has to completely debilitating issues that prevent people from even leaving the house.  Not all OCD is this nuanced kind that is often parodied about having to turn on and off a light switch 7 times before entering a room.  Also, sometimes people might exhibit symptoms that doesnt make them OCD and to be honest, the fact that todays society uses OCD as a verb kind of trivializes the actual disorder (which I just did myself). 

So to be honest, MP and everybody else should be more careful about how they use the term so that there can be a true understanding of it.  Sometimes, people with OCD have habits that aren't explainable...it is completely illogical and they know it but it makes them feel ill.  Something might look out of order but you have no idea how to put it in order.  In other words, OCD isn't just about putting things in cute patterns...sometimes things look so terribly off that it forces you to focus on it  and you have a sick feeling inside. 

A lot of this probably doesn't make sense but thats just because it is so complex.  I'm guilty of trivializing it too so I just wish people including Mike would be a bit more careful about it but I would say Mike definitely has it.  He is one of the lucky ones that does seem to have some control over it though so props to him for that. 

Quote from: theseoafs on September 07, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
Okay, this is bothering me, so a serious question:  has Portnoy been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?  He mentions it from time to time but from all the videos and interviews I've seen, none of his behavior suggests he has even a mild case.

I've read on these very boards from people with actual OCD that he doesn't have any of the symptoms.

if you have as many CDs & DVDs as he does - it just makes SENSE to have them in order.

Hmm, but I don't get something: was he feeling like he wasn't musically bonded to Dream Theater anymore by the time he was in the band (up to BC&SL) or was it he did not enjoy ADToE (or DT12 in any case, although I doubt he already heard it)?

Quote from: rush-signals on September 07, 2013, 04:49:41 PMReally? Watch some of the docs where it shows him in his studio. Look at his video and audio collection, it's just plain nuts. It's like he has to have everything and it needs to be in a precise/cataloged order.. Or when he talks about watching a movie and liking it that he goes out and gets everything that director has done and watches them.  I think it's obvious from everything I've seen since the beginning he's OCD big time. Do I care? Nah, I have it to some point. I think MP also have some ADHD going on too. Once again no big deal. It's pretty common for recovering alcoholics to need something else to focus on and MP's is just taking it to the max for everything he does. Good for him, probably drives his wife nuts as he said! LOL

I would characterize stuff like this as "having an obsessive personality" but not as "obsessive compulsive disorder." My impression is that OCD symptoms are unavoidable and if you don't carry out the particular obsessive activity it will always be on your mind until you do, while merely being an obsessive personality means that you prefer your collections to be organized and cataloged and to own everything done by an artist or a director. I mean, all of those things are true of me, but I would not say that I am OCD because of it. My father has been diagnosed with a mild form of OCD, and I would say it's totally different from wanting to organize your DVDs. I'm not making statements about what I think Mike Portnoy has or doesn't have, because I don't know him and I'm not a psychologist. But just the one thing about organizing DVDs or buying every movie by a particular director... does not constitute obsessive compulsive disorder. He may have other symptoms that make the end result clear that he does have it, but just those things are not enough to make that diagnosis.

Quote from: 425 on September 07, 2013, 05:05:52 PM

Quote from: Mike Portnoybut when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea. It's great, but I couldn't relate to it anymore.

This REALLY looks like he's talking about ADTOE, not the new album. Unless we know from a fact elsewhere that he has heard DT12, I get the impression that he's talking about ADTOE here.

Yeah, I was going to say, he probably doesn't have access to DT12. And ADTOE is still relatively "new material". It is their most recent album, after all.

Quote from: Ħ on September 07, 2013, 04:44:54 PM
Eh, I believe him. I mean, he was an alcoholic and from what we can see, he's obsessive about some things. And we don't know everything that happens in his personal life, so we're in no place to doubt his word.

Mike is a very public person, though, and it stands to reason that if he suffered from any of the symptoms that characterize the disorder, I wouldn't be asking this question.  Of course, I don't know him personally, so I could be way off-base, but it seems like he just liked to have a lot of control over DT's musical direction, which is totally fine but doesn't have anything to do with OCD.  Preferring to have your enormous CD collection in order and going out to buy every movie by a director enjoy (especially when you have a lot of disposable income like MP does) are probably not symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Anyway, I only ask because I realllllly hate it when people say stuff like "lol I'm so OCD about ____".  If Mike has been diagnosed and has been treated for the disorder, though, then there's nothing to worry about and we don't have to talk about it.

My guess is that he has some obsessive compulsive tendencies.  "Disorder" implies that it significantly disturbs his day-to-day activity, which I suppose could be true, but based on what I've seen in videos, the dude doesn't act like it at all.

-J

Personally I think I have ADLD "Attention deficit laziness disorder". I don't think you need to be diagnosed with OCD to know if you have it. At times in my life I've done things that were so OCD I had to break the pattern anyway I could. If it has a controlling affect on your life it could be a problem. This is what has happened to me at times with certain things I've done, collections I've been obsessed with or just many numerous things. Or maybe it's just an addictive personality <--- that may fit MP more, as it may for me too?  At times it's been crippled me, now I'm on the upswing and recognize it more.

For years I was obsessed with collection Rush and DT bootlegs. I wanted every video and live concert recording I could find. I wanted the best generation and would then remaster it the best I could. I put out lots of recording under the Rush-Signals name. Recently though I looked at everything I thought "why do I have all this?". So I threw everything away. What a cleansing moment!

The interview confirms what I always assumed, that he just wasn't that interested in prog metal anymore. The shoehorned influences (Muse, blast beats, growling etc) of the late albums, and the fact that he hasn't really touched any prog outside Transatlantic since he left kinda made it obvious.

If my band went on without me, their new music wouldn't be my cup of tea either.

Exactly my thoughts too. DT didn't change, MP did. His recent projects just don't do anything for me. Sure the Winery Dogs are good but they just remind me of late 80's Blues/Rock stuff better done by Jon Butcher Axis and Eric Gales.

Quote from: rumborak on September 07, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
The interview confirms what I always assumed, that he just wasn't that interested in prog metal anymore. The shoehorned influences (Muse, blast beats, growling etc) of the late albums, and the fact that he hasn't really touched any prog outside Transatlantic since he left kinda made it obvious.

Yeah, given how ADTOE was not really that much of a departure from the typical DT material, it begs the question how many of the pre-split albums were already not MP's cup of tea anymore.

And the other raised question is a good one too: Why would he want to rejoin DT "in a heartbeat" if he's not that interested in the music anymore?

Quote from: rumborak on September 07, 2013, 07:12:45 PM
Yeah, given how ADTOE was not really that much of a departure from the typical DT material, it begs the question how many of the pre-split albums were already not MP's cup of tea anymore.

And the other raised question is a good one too: Why would he want to rejoin DT "in a heartbeat" if he's not that interested in the music anymore?

"he loves money!" - George Carlin

It is only logical, though, that he doesn't feel attached to the new material if he didn't work in it. There is the possibility, as rumborak said, that he just isn't interested in prog anymore. I felt ADToE is a great representation of what Dream Theater is musically (even with it lacking on some ends).

Of course MP may not feel a personal connection with it just as I didn't, but if he doesn't feel it musically appeals to him, then I think he would want to return to DT because 1) He misses the "leader" or "driver" role in a band, which, as he said, he has not played in any of the projects he has been involved with after his departure from DT; or 2) He still feels DT is his "home", to call it some way, because it is his work of 25~ years and he wants to keep at it.

I feel he should get away from it, though, because ADToE was pretty much a statement of what the band (without him and without Mangini, since he was not part of the creative process) sounds like, with it being a mix of the classic elements with some of the more recent-DT stuff, and if he can't relate to it musically (if this is the case, of course, I'm not implying it is since I may be wrong) then he can't relate musically to the other 4 members.

Also because, as LaBrie said, he won't be back in DT, but that's a different story  :lol

Just to add to that OCD conversation...

As far as I'm concerned, just having all the traits we know MP has (many of which I do have myself) suggests an actual OCD case about as much as being foul-mouthed suggests that you have Tourette's. (wow that was a big sentence :P)

Obviously I don't really know Mike so he might actually have it but I'm just saying that perfectionism != OCD, as far as I know.

Quote from: 425 on September 07, 2013, 05:05:52 PM

Quote from: Mike Portnoybut when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea. It's great, but I couldn't relate to it anymore.

This REALLY looks like he's talking about ADTOE, not the new album. Unless we know from a fact elsewhere that he has heard DT12, I get the impression that he's talking about ADTOE here.

Two things, he couldn't relate to it because the drumming style and sound so that can be understandable. But if he meant overall sound of new DT which, I think he talked about ADOTE, sounds more like old DT and saying that not my cup of tea is not logical. Of course if he isn't into prog metal anymore.

Quote from: 425 on September 07, 2013, 05:05:52 PM

Quote from: Mike Portnoybut when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea. It's great, but I couldn't relate to it anymore.

This REALLY looks like he's talking about ADTOE, not the new album.

PRECISELY!

I don't think he'd have a difficult time finding someone who had the promotional copy. It's also possible that by "new material" he meant the single.

Quote from: Tis BOOLsheet on September 07, 2013, 08:59:01 PM
I don't think he'd have a difficult time finding someone who had the promotional copy. It's also possible that by "new material" he meant the single.

DING DING DING We have a winner.

Pretty sure he meant ADTOE. The Enemy Inside would probably be his cup of tea, while ADTOE not so much.

Looks like MP replied to the first comment below the article...

I'm not really surprised to hear the new DT stuff isn't his cup of tea. It's clear that he was musically (and of course personally) drifting away from the other guys even when he was still in the band.

Ok, this is from the DSM IV-TR as I am not using the DSM V yet. As a practicing professional that has to use these diagnoses, I would never do so in this format for many reasons, starting with not enough information to ever do so with a public person. So please do keep that in mind, as this is purely for education and discussion sake, and not claiming something about anyone when that is not proper practice.

I did not include Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder, as I did not want to type it, even though it may be more applicable.

As Madman Sheperd said, this convo was already had. But for the record...

Diagnostic criteria for 300.3 Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder

A. Either obsessions of compulsions:

Obsessions as defined by (1), (2), (3), and (4):
1 - recurrent and persistent thoughts, impulses, or images that are experienced, at some time during the disturbance, as intrusive and inappropriate and that cause marked anxiety or distress      
2 - the thoughts, impulses, or images are not simply excessive worries about real life problems
3 - the person attempts to ignore or suppress such thoughts, impulses, or images, or to neutralize them with some other thought or action
4 - the person recognizes that the obsessional thoughts, impulses, or images are a product of his or her own mind (not imposed from without as in thought insertion)

Compulsions as defined by (1) and (2):
1 - repetitive behaviors (e.g., hand washing, ordering, checking) or mental acts (e.g., praying, counting, repeating words silently) that the person feels driven to perform in response to an obsessions, or according to rules that must be applied rigidly
2 - the behaviors or mental acts are aimed at preventing or reducing distress or preventing some dreaded event or situation: however, these behaviors or mental acts either are not connected in a realistic way with what they are designed to neutralize or prevent or are clearly excessive

B. At some point during the course of the disorder, the person has recognized that the obsessions or compulsions are excessive or unreasonable.   Note: This does not apply to children.

C. The obsessions or compulsions cause marked distress, are time consuming (take more than 1 hour a day), or significantly interfere with the person's normal routine, occupational (or academic) functioning, or usual social activities or relationships.

D. If another Axis I disorder is present, the content of the obsessions or compulsions is not restricted to it (e.g., preoccupation with food in the presence of an Eating Disorder; hair pulling in the presence of Trichotillomania; concern with appearance in the presence of Body Dysmorphic Disorder: preoccupation with drugs in the presence of a Substance Use Disorder; preoccupation with having a serious illness in the presence of Hypochondriasis; preoccupation with sexual urges or fantasies in the presence of a Paraphilia; or guilty ruminations in the presence of Major Depressive Disorder).

E. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.

Specify if:
With Poor Insight: if, for most of the time during the current episode, the person does not recognize that the obsessions and compulsions are excessive or unreasonable

---American Psychiatric Association. (2000). Diagnostic and statistical
manual of mental disorders (4th ed., text rev.). Washington, DC.

1 - recurrent and persistent thoughts
3 - the person attempts to ignore or suppress such thoughts, impulses, or images, or to neutralize them with some other thought or action

I wish there was a way to cure this.

Quote from: Zook on September 07, 2013, 10:30:28 PM
1 - recurrent and persistent thoughts
3 - the person attempts to ignore or suppress such thoughts, impulses, or images, or to neutralize them with some other thought or action

I wish there was a way to cure this.

Cure, no.
Manage, yes.

And I agree, I wish there were more that could be done.  :-\ 

I own more than 1500 DVDs, including all sort of big limited editions and stuff. I obviously tend to keep them all in a precise order, directors, genres, my personal rating and so on. You guys are telling me I have OCD as well? I think a lot of people have some kind of obsessive personality, it may be more or less accentuated, using the term "OCD" for that is quite disrespectful for people who actually suffer from it. That's only my opinion.

Anyway, I'm with the guys that stated something like pretty illogical he said that wasn't his cup of tea, as prog metal was a HUGE part of his career and no matter he was referring to ADTOE or DT12 or the new single only.

Quote from: rumborak on September 07, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
The interview confirms what I always assumed, that he just wasn't that interested in prog metal anymore. The shoehorned influences (Muse, blast beats, growling etc) of the late albums, and the fact that he hasn't really touched any prog outside Transatlantic since he left kinda made it obvious.

Pretty much this.  In fact, other than DT themselves, most prog metal leaves me kind of cold and uninterested too.

I like prog rock a lot, but most prog metal bands sound like DT-wannabes, with lots of chops but no soul.

IMHO

Just to add to CableX's post.

MP's ways suggests that he has Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder which is very different from OCD. The wikipedia entry on it explains it pretty well:

"The main symptoms of OCPD are preoccupation with remembering and paying attention to minute details and facts, following rules and regulations, compulsion to make lists and schedules, as well as rigidity/inflexibility of beliefs or showing perfectionism that interferes with task-completion. Symptoms may cause extreme distress and interfere with a person's occupational and social functioning.[3] Most people spend their early life avoiding symptoms and developing techniques to avoid dealing with these strenuous issues."

As someone who has numeromania (a subset kind of of OCD where I have to count or do things a certain amount of times or I will get severe anxiety attacks) I know a little bit about this stuff. I think people like to just throw the OCD term around a little too loosely at times, not understanding what it really is and it's really clear to me that MP has not had this professionally diagnosed the way he applies it so liberally to himself, almost like a badge of honor at times.

His symptoms, if I may go by both his online persona and the times I've met and hung out with him suggest OCPD, not OCD.

Quote from: efx on September 08, 2013, 03:54:29 AM
Just to add to CableX's post.

MP's ways suggests that he has Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder which is very different from OCD. The wikipedia entry on it explains it pretty well:

"The main symptoms of OCPD are preoccupation with remembering and paying attention to minute details and facts, following rules and regulations, compulsion to make lists and schedules, as well as rigidity/inflexibility of beliefs or showing perfectionism that interferes with task-completion. Symptoms may cause extreme distress and interfere with a person's occupational and social functioning.[3] Most people spend their early life avoiding symptoms and developing techniques to avoid dealing with these strenuous issues."

As someone who has numeromania (a subset kind of of OCD where I have to count or do things a certain amount of times or I will get severe anxiety attacks) I know a little bit about this stuff. I think people like to just throw the OCD term around a little too loosely at times, not understanding what it really is and it's really clear to me that MP has not had this professionally diagnosed the way he applies it so liberally to himself, almost like a badge of honor at times.

His symptoms, if I may go by both his online persona and the times I've met and hung out with him suggest OCPD, not OCD.

I did mention OCPD before I defined OCD; just wanted to lay the official info out for that one  :coolio.
I do agree fully with you that the term "OCD" has become common lexicon much like ADHD, bipolar and even fetish. It has trivialized and watered down complex issues. Truth be told, although the definitions are changing again, my field tends to stay away from bipolar diagnoses because of the public stigma now attached.

Problem with OCPD  EFX is 1) MP in my view only meets 3 at most of the diagnostic criteria; needs to meet at least 4. 2) As the last part of the definition says, some OCPD is actually not completing tasks due to perfectionism or loss of focus. This only his family and close friends would know.

This is why diagnosing someone from a distance is not only unofficial and not right, but can be faulty. There is just more structured information and time I have with someone before ever claiming a diagnosis. Even then, I am not a huge fan of doing it.  :-\ MP saying he obsessed over details, and does everything for the band just shows he cares a lot to me, and works hard. I think many of us do that about many things. Might he have some disorder? Sure, considering his childhood and some adulthood. But we don't know because diagnosing is not done like this. As Theseoafs said, we have no idea if he has been diagnosed by a medical or mental health professional. Therefore, him saying he has it, or having similarities is unofficial and possibly following the common view of more complex conditions.

Quote from: hefdaddy42 on September 08, 2013, 03:51:40 AM

Quote from: rumborak on September 07, 2013, 06:31:30 PM
The interview confirms what I always assumed, that he just wasn't that interested in prog metal anymore. The shoehorned influences (Muse, blast beats, growling etc) of the late albums, and the fact that he hasn't really touched any prog outside Transatlantic since he left kinda made it obvious.

Pretty much this.  In fact, other than DT themselves, most prog metal leaves me kind of cold and uninterested too.

I like prog rock a lot, but most prog metal bands sound like DT-wannabes, with lots of chops but no soul.

IMHO

What're your thoughts on haken? I was really impressed by them. Also Arjen Lucassen's bodies of work are fantastic  ;D

Regarding the OCD discussion, my feeling is that if he actually had it, he wouldn't be so nonchalant about it. OCD is a disorder (that's after all what the D stands for), and there's nothing fun about it when you have it. In fact, I'm pretty sure it interfering significantly with your normal life is a requirement for it to be called OCD.

I don't think this is bashing, but I think everybody is aware of MP's flair for drama. He isn't just somebody who can't handle his liquor, he's an alcoholic and drug addict who writes about it for 5 albums straight. He doesn't just enjoy a memorabilia connection and keeps it in order, no, it's all because he has OCD. I have long learned that MP will describe everything in large and dramatic words.

Quote from: CableX 1814 on September 07, 2013, 10:26:54 PM
Ok, this is from the DSM IV-TR as I am not using the DSM V yet. As a practicing professional that has to use these diagnoses, I would never do so in this format for many reasons, starting with not enough information to ever do so with a public person. So please do keep that in mind, as this is purely for education and discussion sake, and not claiming something about anyone when that is not proper practice.

I did not include Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder, as I did not want to type it, even though it may be more applicable.

As Madman Sheperd said, this convo was already had. But for the record...

Diagnostic criteria for 300.3 Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder

A. Either obsessions of compulsions:

Obsessions as defined by (1), (2), (3), and (4):
1 - recurrent and persistent thoughts, impulses, or images that are experienced, at some time during the disturbance, as intrusive and inappropriate and that cause marked anxiety or distress      
2 - the thoughts, impulses, or images are not simply excessive worries about real life problems
3 - the person attempts to ignore or suppress such thoughts, impulses, or images, or to neutralize them with some other thought or action
4 - the person recognizes that the obsessional thoughts, impulses, or images are a product of his or her own mind (not imposed from without as in thought insertion)

Compulsions as defined by (1) and (2):
1 - repetitive behaviors (e.g., hand washing, ordering, checking) or mental acts (e.g., praying, counting, repeating words silently) that the person feels driven to perform in response to an obsessions, or according to rules that must be applied rigidly
2 - the behaviors or mental acts are aimed at preventing or reducing distress or preventing some dreaded event or situation: however, these behaviors or mental acts either are not connected in a realistic way with what they are designed to neutralize or prevent or are clearly excessive

B. At some point during the course of the disorder, the person has recognized that the obsessions or compulsions are excessive or unreasonable.   Note: This does not apply to children.

C. The obsessions or compulsions cause marked distress, are time consuming (take more than 1 hour a day), or significantly interfere with the person's normal routine, occupational (or academic) functioning, or usual social activities or relationships.

D. If another Axis I disorder is present, the content of the obsessions or compulsions is not restricted to it (e.g., preoccupation with food in the presence of an Eating Disorder; hair pulling in the presence of Trichotillomania; concern with appearance in the presence of Body Dysmorphic Disorder: preoccupation with drugs in the presence of a Substance Use Disorder; preoccupation with having a serious illness in the presence of Hypochondriasis; preoccupation with sexual urges or fantasies in the presence of a Paraphilia; or guilty ruminations in the presence of Major Depressive Disorder).

E. The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.

Specify if:
With Poor Insight: if, for most of the time during the current episode, the person does not recognize that the obsessions and compulsions are excessive or unreasonable

---American Psychiatric Association. (2000). Diagnostic and statistical
manual of mental disorders (4th ed., text rev.). Washington, DC.

If JP reads this we have the lyrics for a track off DT13 right here!  :biggrin:

I honestly don't put too much into the choice of word, it's the same as people calling their kids hyperactive or people selfdiagnosing as sociopaths or aspbergers or whatnot, or schizo or paranoia and anxiety etc. Plenty of real mental disorders that we've appropriated into our everyday vernicular to describe a personality trait we have.

^ That is very true.

Quote from: noxon on September 08, 2013, 01:57:12 PM
I honestly don't put too much into the choice of word, it's the same as people calling their kids hyperactive or people selfdiagnosing as sociopaths or aspbergers or whatnot, or schizo or paranoia and anxiety etc. Plenty of real mental disorders that we've appropriated into our everyday vernicular to describe a personality trait we have.

Eh, it's pretty disrespectful to the people who actually have those disorders.

Well, you certainly don't have to be diagnosed to know you have a mental disorder. I know I have synesthesia. However, even if you are diagnosed with something doesn't mean you actually have it. I've been diagnosed with ADD, but I don't have it.

alot of people forget that Transatlantic's "The Whirlwind" came out the same year as Black Clouds. Maybe Portnoy WASNT the main driving force of the ballsy metal side of new DT and he missed the older, more (musically) colorful days of Images, Awake and Falling into Infinity. Like, yeah, Mike was in Avenged and Adrenaline Mob, but he also did Flying Colors and Winery Dogs, and nows hes going to be a part of Bigelf.

Maybe, just maybe, Portnoy had more of an influence on the aspects of Dream Theater that we actually enjoy and not so much to do with the crazy heavy shred wankery the band has become since the SC that everyone around here loves to hate.

Thoughts?

Or maybe he's not such a huge influence on the sound of the other bands you spoke of?

Quote from: Lucien on September 08, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
Or maybe he's not such a huge influence on the sound of the other bands you spoke of?

He was most definitely directly involved with the writing of Transatlantic, Flying Colors, and Winery Dogs. Yet, at the same time, he never wrote anything with Avenged, and he was wasnt even on board with Russell Allen and Mike Orlando until pretty far into the writing process of A-Mob. In those acts, he was "JUST THE DRUMMER", as he even said so himself. Besides, most of the shredding in DT is done by Petrucci and Rudess, is it not?

I think that says something to be honest.

Quote from: CableX 1814 on September 08, 2013, 05:54:29 AM
This is why diagnosing someone from a distance is not only unofficial and not right, but can be faulty. There is just more structured information and time I have with someone before ever claiming a diagnosis. Even then, I am not a huge fan of doing it.

Yes. I've always thought that MP brings up examples of his collection-organizing or band-detail-overseeing not as exhaustive "evidence" of him having OCD, but just examples of his OCD that he usually talks about in interviews because they're going to ask him about his band activities in inties, so then a mention of it ties into what he's saying. He's certainly not going to have to answer a question that allows him to mention "rituals" like washing his hands 20 times or whatever, it's just that there's aspects of his public persona that are affected by his OCD that we get to read about.

People who misuse words for mental disorders are definitely annoying, but it's also not in our hands to hand out diagnoses and erase a person's claim to having one just because other people have misused the word before. None of us knows whether he's been diagnosed by a professional or whether his personal life is affected enough by it for him to confidently self-diagnose himself.

Could be personal annoyance as sometimes, when I tell people I have social anxiety, and then they tell me "nah you're just shy and blowing it out of proportion", I'm there thinkin', "what, do you want me to have a panic attack right here and now to prove my point? I had one last fucking week".

Quote from: PROGdrummer on September 08, 2013, 03:25:06 PM

Quote from: Lucien on September 08, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
Or maybe he's not such a huge influence on the sound of the other bands you spoke of?

He was most definitely directly involved with the writing of Transatlantic, Flying Colors, and Winery Dogs. Yet, at the same time, he never wrote anything with Avenged, and he was wasnt even on board with Russell Allen and Mike Orlando until pretty far into the writing process of A-Mob. In those acts, he was "JUST THE DRUMMER", as he even said so himself. Besides, most of the shredding in DT is done by Petrucci and Rudess, is it not?

I think that says something to be honest.

You have a very fair point, but as MP responded in the interview, he doesn't play the leader role in any of those bands. He did in Dream Theater, and if he didn't intend for the band to stir in a certain musical direction, it most likely wouldn't. At least not fully, like it happened in SC and BC&SL, for example.

Quote from: MoraWintersoul on September 08, 2013, 03:50:51 PM
Yes. I've always thought that MP brings up examples of his collection-organizing or band-detail-overseeing not as exhaustive "evidence" of him having OCD, but just examples of his OCD that he usually talks about in interviews because they're going to ask him about his band activities in inties, so then a mention of it ties into what he's saying. He's certainly not going to have to answer a question that allows him to mention "rituals" like washing his hands 20 times or whatever, it's just that there's aspects of his public persona that are affected by his OCD that we get to read about.

People who misuse words for mental disorders are definitely annoying, but it's also not in our hands to hand out diagnoses and erase a person's claim to having one just because other people have misused the word before. None of us knows whether he's been diagnosed by a professional or whether his personal life is affected enough by it for him to confidently self-diagnose himself.

Could be personal annoyance as sometimes, when I tell people I have social anxiety, and then they tell me "nah you're just shy and blowing it out of proportion", I'm there thinkin', "what, do you want me to have a panic attack right here and now to prove my point? I had one last fucking week".

I agree completely with this. Right down to the part about social anxiety, since I also have that disorder. I don't like being told that I'm just shy, because I'm pretty conscious of what happens inside my head and the fact that it is not just shyness.

Quote from: SeRoX on September 07, 2013, 08:11:02 PM

Quote from: 425 on September 07, 2013, 05:05:52 PM

Quote from: Mike Portnoybut when I heard the new material, it simply wasn't my cup of tea. It's great, but I couldn't relate to it anymore.

This REALLY looks like he's talking about ADTOE, not the new album. Unless we know from a fact elsewhere that he has heard DT12, I get the impression that he's talking about ADTOE here.

Two things, he couldn't relate to it because the drumming style and sound so that can be understandable. But if he meant overall sound of new DT which, I think he talked about ADOTE, sounds more like old DT and saying that not my cup of tea is not logical. Of course if he isn't into prog metal anymore.

I know I (and plenty of others on DTF) didn't feel as much of a connection to ADTOE as what came before it, because it felt like it was missing something. Not hard to imagine MP feeling the same way, especially since he'd think that missing piece is himself.

It's just a bit annoying, especially when MP is more of control-obsessive than OCD itself. There's a difference in "I need to have this DVD to complete my collection" or "I need to do this because if somebody else does it, it will be wrong". That is what MP has.

I HAVE been diagnosed with OCD and social anxiety. It's tough to live with it sometimes. I know I drive my wife crazy when I relapse. I know I drive myself crazy. There are days when I want to cry because it's not cool spending 45 minutes in choosing a notebook (that happened a few weeks ago, when I needed a notebook for meetings. I couldn't leave Office Max with THE notebook if you know what I mean). Another example, I was cleaning my room in parents' house because I was about to get married and move with my wife. Guess what I found....a bag full of unused pens and blank notebooks. Tears ran up my face because those memories, those struggles came back. Yes, pens and notebooks are one of my OCD behaviors. Don't ask why. I haven't figured it out yet  :lol. I have managed to get away from the meds where I can manage it, but there are days where I struggle sometimes. Not all of my behaviors are OCD, it's just a few. OCD affects your daily life, it affects the others around you. As I said, fortunately mine comes in episodes and not all the time, but I have met people that have it worse than me. And trust me, filling their DVD collection is nowhere near their daily struggle.

EDIT: By the way, I don't go and tell everybody that I have OCD. I don't pull that card almost anywhere

I think it's worth mentioning that not all cases of obsessive-compulsive disorder are equally severe.  Just because Mike Portnoy doesn't have severe and crippling OCD doesn't mean he doesn't have OCD. 

I myself have never been diagnosed with OCD, but I've got my suspicions.  Just last night I lied awake in bed tossing and turning for half an hour because I had the nagging feeling that I'd put a CD away in the wrong order.  Eventually I had to get up and check, because I couldn't seem to get it out of my head.  Got to sleep pretty soon after checking.

Now, for me to say that I like having my CDs in a specific order, that's not indicative of OCD at all.  But for me to say that if I don't keep my CDs in the correct order it keeps me up at night?  I don't know.  As I said, I've never been diagnosed.  But when I'm literally losing sleep over something as stupid as whether or not I accidentally put Between the Buried and Me before Avenged Sevenfold, I think I might be a bit obsessive. 

So, yeah.  From my perspective, if he feels like he has to keep his DVD collection complete or it will bother him, that could very well be a symptom of a minor case of OCD.  If, on the other hand, he just keeps his collection complete because he doesn't want to miss anything cool from his favorite directors, that's another story. 

Anyway, just my two cents. 

I think one aspect of calling it OCD, as opposed to say "I'm just really anal about XYZ" or "I don't trust others to do a good job at it" is that OCD makes you look like a victim, something outside your control, whereas the other wordings suggest you could do it differently if you actually wanted to.
I mean, that's why a lot of people use "ADHD" as a euphemism for their overt indifference, or stuff like "lol, that's my Italian side" for simply being a loudmouth. By attributing it to something outside your control it gives you permission (or so you think) to continue the undesirable behavior.

Quote from: PROGdrummer on September 08, 2013, 03:25:06 PM

Quote from: Lucien on September 08, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
Or maybe he's not such a huge influence on the sound of the other bands you spoke of?

He was most definitely directly involved with the writing of Transatlantic, Flying Colors, and Winery Dogs. 

Okay, but I think it is common knowledge now that most (see: NOT all) of his "writing" is arranging songs and piecing albums together, not really writing melodies or riffs.

Quote from: rumborak on September 08, 2013, 07:05:39 PM
I think one aspect of calling it OCD, as opposed to say "I'm just really anal about XYZ" or "I don't trust others to do a good job at it" is that OCD makes you look like a victim, something outside your control, whereas the other wordings suggest you could do it differently if you actually wanted to.
I mean, that's why a lot of people use "ADHD" as a euphemism for their overt indifference, or stuff like "lol, that's my Italian side" for simply being a loudmouth. By attributing it to something outside your control it gives you permission (or so you think) to continue the undesirable behavior.

:clap:

Quote from: KevShmev on September 08, 2013, 07:09:58 PM

Quote from: PROGdrummer on September 08, 2013, 03:25:06 PM

Quote from: Lucien on September 08, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
Or maybe he's not such a huge influence on the sound of the other bands you spoke of?

He was most definitely directly involved with the writing of Transatlantic, Flying Colors, and Winery Dogs. 

Okay, but I think it is common knowledge now that most (see: NOT all) of his "writing" is arranging songs and piecing albums together, not really writing melodies or riffs.

fair enough. But going off of that, the main composers for DT are JP and Jordan, so why dont they get just as much of the blame for all the ballsy metal and wank in SC and BC&SL as Portnoy does. Like, sure, Mike was the one who did the "ROOUUUARRRR" and the angry guy vocals on those albums, and yes, he was basically in control of the band at that point in a leader role. But even still, JP is the one writing all the heavy riffs and lyrics about "Dark Masters". Why does everyone throw the blame at Portnoy. All I'm saying is, maybe the aspects of modern Dream Theater that everyone hates doesnt really have much to do with Portnoy as you all might think. Could it possibly have been the OTHER members of the band as well?

No? alright then...

Quote from: rumborak on September 08, 2013, 07:05:39 PM
I think one aspect of calling it OCD, as opposed to say "I'm just really anal about XYZ" or "I don't trust others to do a good job at it" is that OCD makes you look like a victim, something outside your control, whereas the other wordings suggest you could do it differently if you actually wanted to.
I mean, that's why a lot of people use "ADHD" as a euphemism for their overt indifference, or stuff like "lol, that's my Italian side" for simply being a loudmouth. By attributing it to something outside your control it gives you permission (or so you think) to continue the undesirable behavior.

This is a fair point, but I think it's important to keep in mind that there are also people with legitimate cases of ADHD. 

Quote from: PROGdrummer on September 08, 2013, 07:50:42 PM
All I'm saying is, maybe the aspects of modern Dream Theater that everyone hates doesnt really have much to do with Portnoy as you all might think. Could it possibly have been the OTHER members of the band as well?

Could be.  But a lot of people feel ADTOE was a step in the right direction.  If the 'bad stuff' stopped when MP left, it makes sense to suggest that he had a lot to do with the 'bad stuff'. 

Quote from: rumborak on September 08, 2013, 01:24:36 PM
Regarding the OCD discussion, my feeling is that if he actually had it, he wouldn't be so nonchalant about it. OCD is a disorder (that's after all what the D stands for), and there's nothing fun about it when you have it. In fact, I'm pretty sure it interfering significantly with your normal life is a requirement for it to be called OCD.

I don't think this is bashing, but I think everybody is aware of MP's flair for drama. He isn't just somebody who can't handle his liquor, he's an alcoholic and drug addict who writes about it for 5 albums straight. He doesn't just enjoy a memorabilia connection and keeps it in order, no, it's all because he has OCD. I have long learned that MP will describe everything in large and dramatic words.

This. OCD or not, I don't like how he keeps throwing it at peoples faces in every single interview he gives. Like he's just waiting for the right question to make drama about his mental issues. I'm surprised he didn't mention his alcoholism in this one.

I'm not a Portnoy hater at all, this is just a recurring thing that bothers me.

Quote from: rumborak on September 08, 2013, 07:05:39 PM
I think one aspect of calling it OCD, as opposed to say "I'm just really anal about XYZ" or "I don't trust others to do a good job at it" is that OCD makes you look like a victim, something outside your control, whereas the other wordings suggest you could do it differently if you actually wanted to.
I mean, that's why a lot of people use "ADHD" as a euphemism for their overt indifference, or stuff like "lol, that's my Italian side" for simply being a loudmouth. By attributing it to something outside your control it gives you permission (or so you think) to continue the undesirable behavior.

I think this gets  the point I was trying to make across a whole lot better. Well said!

Quote from: Jaffa on September 08, 2013, 06:24:15 PM
I think it's worth mentioning that not all cases of obsessive-compulsive disorder are equally severe.  Just because Mike Portnoy doesn't have severe and crippling OCD doesn't mean he doesn't have OCD. 

I myself have never been diagnosed with OCD, but I've got my suspicions.  Just last night I lied awake in bed tossing and turning for half an hour because I had the nagging feeling that I'd put a CD away in the wrong order.  Eventually I had to get up and check, because I couldn't seem to get it out of my head.  Got to sleep pretty soon after checking.

Now, for me to say that I like having my CDs in a specific order, that's not indicative of OCD at all.  But for me to say that if I don't keep my CDs in the correct order it keeps me up at night?  I don't know.  As I said, I've never been diagnosed.  But when I'm literally losing sleep over something as stupid as whether or not I accidentally put Between the Buried and Me before Avenged Sevenfold, I think I might be a bit obsessive. 

So, yeah.  From my perspective, if he feels like he has to keep his DVD collection complete or it will bother him, that could very well be a symptom of a minor case of OCD.  If, on the other hand, he just keeps his collection complete because he doesn't want to miss anything cool from his favorite directors, that's another story. 

Anyway, just my two cents. 

Very well said, and Milena was also bang on as she normally is.

Yes, some people keep their DVD collection organised for practical reasons or because they just prefer it. Some people do it because they feel genuinely uncomfortable if they don't. The latter is clearly an obsessive compulsive tendency.

And as has been said, MP talks about these things because they tie in easily to the interviews about his music. Nobody here knows whether he has been diagnosed, or whether he has other aspects that affect his personal life, so it's pretty rude to speculate and insist that there is nothing wrong with him.

Quote from: PROGdrummer on September 08, 2013, 03:13:31 PM
Maybe, just maybe, Portnoy had more of an influence on the aspects of Dream Theater that we actually enjoy and not so much to do with the crazy heavy shred wankery the band has become since the SC that everyone around here loves to hate.

The aspects of DT's output that had, as far as I'm concerned and in varying degrees, soured their albums from ToT through to BC&SL disappeared on ADTOE and having followed DT reasonably closely over the years it wasn't a surprise that that happened given MP's exit. Crazy heavy shred wankery wasn't on my list of issues with those albums.

After BC&SL I was pretty much done with DT. After ADTOE I'm excited to see what's coming next.

Remember folks, we're all on the spectrum somewhere!

Kind of off topic to the OP but this is relevent to where the discussion has been going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYemnKEKx0c

It's a long (18 mins)TED talks video but for those with an interest in psychology it basically underlines the idiocy of current diagnostic criteria.

Speaking as a recovering alcoholic myself, I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that you don't have alcoholism without also having a personality that is prone to obsession, but that doesn't mean you have OCD. I know a lot of recovering alcoholics-it runs in my family-and every single one of them will obsess over something, but none of them have OCD. In my particular case, if something goes wrong in my life, I will obsess over it going wrong again, which is why I've spent the last week or so obsessively checking the thermostat in my house in the wake of my air conditioning breaking down. My father is a recovering alcoholic and goes through much the same thing. Addiction and obsession are two sides of the same coin, and you tend to can't have one without the other.

It does seem like a convenient defense sometimes ("yeah, I'm a pain to deal with sometimes, but I have OCD!") rather than just admitting "hey, I'm a bit of a control freak" with MP sometimes, with a side dose of using the name of the condition as most people SEE it, not as it really is. 99% of people who say they're schizophrenic don't even know what the word means.

MP has described himself as a control-freak as well before, so that argument doesn't really make sense.

That doesn't exactly help his cause here, now does it? Indeed, it just makes it worse.

I don't think alcoholism and obsessive behavior are linked in the slightest. Jaq, you might have both, but I think that's more incidental than the rule.

Given how many alcoholics I know, and how many of them have obsessive personalities, if it isn't a rule, it's certainly something that occurs regularly enough for me to wonder if it is connected. It may not have been studied or even connected yet, but it does APPEAR to be there.

I could see a relation in that, without alcohol, alcoholics will turn to other things to become obsessed(addicted) to. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm treating it negatively, because any of us who give up something that we obsess over always seem to find something new to obsess over

Quote from: Lucien on September 08, 2013, 02:43:12 PM
Well, you certainly don't have to be diagnosed to know you have a mental disorder. I know I have synesthesia. However, even if you are diagnosed with something doesn't mean you actually have it. I've been diagnosed with ADD, but I don't have it.

At the same time, you can't generally trust the general public to diagnose something like OCD.  It's a widely misunderstood disorder.  I don't think most people would be able to properly diagnose a case based on the formal criteria unless they actually had training (unlike, say, the flu, whose symptoms everyone on the planet is familiar with).  I would trust a doctor's opinion more (though, as you say, they do make mistakes themselves).

Anyway, I'm the one who started all this talk about Mike's OCD, so sorry about that.  Of course, I don't mean to be disrespectful by doubting what he says about it, and I actually really want to believe him because I think he's a great guy.  However, he is an incredibly public person, and he talks about OCD a lot, and yet the examples he brings up in interviews of his obsessive behavior are less than convincing (as a few people in this discussion have been less-than-convinced).  You could chalk it up to a boundary that Mike's set up between his public and private life, but his struggles with alcoholism are pretty well-documented in interviews (and I don't doubt him on that issue).

Anyway, it looks like my question -- "has Mike been diagnosed by a doctor to have OCD?" -- can't be answered by anyone on this board so I'm just gonna drop it.

Quote from: Ħ on September 07, 2013, 04:44:54 PM
Eh, I believe him. I mean, he was is an alcoholic and from what we can see, he's obsessive about some things. And we don't know everything that happens in his personal life, so we're in no place to doubt his word.

Just clearing up a small error in your post, Ħ

There is no such thing as "was" when it comes to alcoholism.  Once you cross that Rubicon there's no going back.


As far as the whole "OCD" thing goes with respect to Mr. Portnoy, speaking as a fellow friend of Bill W., I can tell you that it's quite common among addicts and alcoholics for us to refer to ourselves as obsessive/compulsive and really it's not a very big leap after that to just sort of abbreviate that tendency as "OCD."  I think it's probably time for him to be cut some slack on this and not pick apart everything he says and does looking for a way to criticize him.  I mean, admittedly his behavior around his departure from Dream Theater was pretty crass and tactless, but maybe we should not judge someone until or unless we've walked a few miles in and/or puked on his shoes, ya know?

Talk about derailing a thread. From MP's interview to his supposed OCD?!? I know DTF is like that, but Geez!

On topic, I found MP's answer very tactful and honest and God knows I've been very critical of the man.

B.Lee

Quote from: Bertielee on September 09, 2013, 12:44:12 PM
Talk about derailing a thread. From MP's interview to his supposed OCD?!? I know DTF is like that, but Geez!

Mike mentions it twice in his first three sentences.  Certainly, if he brings it up, we're allowed to discuss it.

I think a lot of you are missing the point of the OP. I'm pretty sure what the OP was trying to say is, if MP says he doesn't relate to the material, then why has he said numerous times that he'd rejoin DT in a heartbeat? Why would you want to rejoin a band if you don't relate to it anymore?

Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on September 09, 2013, 01:46:57 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the point of the OP. I'm pretty sure what the OP was trying to say is, if MP says he doesn't relate to the material, then why has he said numerous times that he'd rejoin DT in a heartbeat? Why would you want to rejoin a band if you don't relate to it anymore?

He'd probably find it more relateable if say. He was in the band and had creative input on the final project.

C'mon guys, give Mike a break. Even an interview where he says that he cant talk about Dream Theater because it gets torn to shreds gets torn to shreds!

Just respect what the guy says and stop overinterpreting everything.

He changed, he left Dream Theater, he doest relate to the new material but says it good, he still has OCD.

My respect for Mike hasnt changed.
My musical taste hasnt changed. I still like Dream Theater and its very much my cup of tea. Mikes new projects arent. They're good but just not what I listen to. Except Transatlantic ;)

Quote from: Dacling on September 09, 2013, 01:48:20 PM

Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on September 09, 2013, 01:46:57 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the point of the OP. I'm pretty sure what the OP was trying to say is, if MP says he doesn't relate to the material, then why has he said numerous times that he'd rejoin DT in a heartbeat? Why would you want to rejoin a band if you don't relate to it anymore?

He'd probably find it more relateable if say. He was in the band and had creative input on the final project.

Pretty much agree with the above statement. I don't think it's a matter of MP not being interested in prog-metal - if that were the case, why is he doing the Progressive Nation at Sea thing? I think what it really boils down to is that he's not interested in the direction that DT has taken since he left the band. Although this is purely speculation on my part, I wouldn't be surprised if to some degree he thinks that they have regressed to some degree, falling back on what made them popular, as opposed to pushing the extremes, especially in the metal direction, which MP seems to be far more interested in (in general) than the other guys. So that's why I don't think it is confusing or hypocritical of him to say that he wouldn't mind rejoining DT if the band welcomed him back.

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on September 10, 2013, 06:02:38 PM

Quote from: Dacling on September 09, 2013, 01:48:20 PM

Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on September 09, 2013, 01:46:57 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the point of the OP. I'm pretty sure what the OP was trying to say is, if MP says he doesn't relate to the material, then why has he said numerous times that he'd rejoin DT in a heartbeat? Why would you want to rejoin a band if you don't relate to it anymore?

He'd probably find it more relateable if say. He was in the band and had creative input on the final project.

Pretty much agree with the above statement. I don't think it's a matter of MP not being interested in prog-metal - if that were the case, why is he doing the Progressive Nation at Sea thing? I think what it really boils down to is that he's not interested in the direction that DT has taken since he left the band. Although this is purely speculation on my part, I wouldn't be surprised if to some degree he thinks that they have regressed to some degree, falling back on what made them popular, as opposed to pushing the extremes, especially in the metal direction, which MP seems to be far more interested in (in general) than the other guys. So that's why I don't think it is confusing or hypocritical of him to say that he wouldn't mind rejoining DT if the band welcomed him back.

Well I took it as, he wasn't relating to the last bit of material before he left, like BC&SL or even SC as well.

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on September 10, 2013, 06:02:38 PM
I don't think it's a matter of MP not being interested in prog-metal - if that were the case, why is he doing the Progressive Nation at Sea thing?

In fairness, there is quite a bit of difference between prog metal and the prog rock that Progressive Nation is loaded up with.

He may still like prog, and like metal, but not like them together anymore.  Or whatever.  Who knows?

Perhaps. But even when he initially left the band, he said it was never about the music that they created together (in fact he went as far as to say that he was quite proud of all of their material), but rather the relationships within the band and the write-record-tour cycle that they had been in for numerous years. Had it been that he had lost interest in prog-metal, there's no reason to believe that he wouldn't have stated it as such.

And BTW Hef, there's plenty of bands on the Progressive Nation at Sea bill that would definitely fit the definition of "prog-metal" much more so than "prog-rock".

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on September 11, 2013, 03:53:37 AM
Perhaps. But even when he initially left the band, he said it was never about the music that they created together (in fact he went as far as to say that he was quite proud of all of their material), but rather the relationships within the band and the write-record-tour cycle that they had been in for numerous years. Had it been that he had lost interest in prog-metal, there's no reason to believe that he wouldn't have stated it as such.

And BTW Hef, there's plenty of bands on the Progressive Nation at Sea bill that would definitely fit the definition of "prog-metal" much more so than "prog-rock".

*shrugs*

Scotty, I had the impression that MP was overall in a rut some time before his departure. I think he tried all these different things before (blast beats etc) and after (A7X, Amob) as an attempt to do something fresh. While he may not hate prog metal, I almost could imagine him seeing a return to that genre as a regression to the previous, worn-out stage.

Quote from: rumborak on September 11, 2013, 09:38:50 AM
Scotty, I had the impression that MP was overall in a rut some time before his departure. I think he tried all these different things before (blast beats etc) and after (A7X, Amob) as an attempt to do something fresh. While he may not hate prog metal, I almost could imagine him seeing a return to that genre as a regression to the previous, worn-out stage that he would do in a heart-beat.

FTFY  ;)

:lol

Him wanting to return, IMHO, is just an expression of his latest exploits not taking off as he hoped they would.

Quote from: rumborak on September 11, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
:lol

Him wanting to return, IMHO, is just an expression of his latest exploits not taking off as he hoped they would.

Yeah i guess the most obvious thing of all was that he asked to come back right after A7X told him that they would keep their original plans for just touring until a certain date with him.
And a member of A7X actually told in an interview that Mike made it obvious that he wanted to go to A7X full time. So i think him burning out was true for sure, but his various statements are contradictory.

Quote from: rumborak on September 11, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
:lol

Him wanting to return, IMHO, is just an expression of his latest exploits not taking off as he hoped they would.

He's wanted to return basically ever since leaving DT, so that has very little to do with it. I think he probably regretted the decision from day 1.

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 11, 2013, 08:02:38 PM

Quote from: rumborak on September 11, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
:lol

Him wanting to return, IMHO, is just an expression of his latest exploits not taking off as he hoped they would.

He's wanted to return basically ever since leaving DT, so that has very little to do with it. I think he probably regretted the decision from day 1.

John, James, Jordan and John called his bluff. Plain and simple IMHO. I dont think in MP's wildest dreams that he ever thought (1) that they'd not beg him to stay and (2) after leaving that they'd carry on Without him. I believe that after all the years of him 'wearing different hats' for DT that he believed there was no way they could survive without him. That he was the absolute vital cog that made the DT machine thrive....when in fact, if there is a vital cog his name is John Petrucci.

MP all but gave JMX wedgies and stole his lunch money on all DTs behind the scenes vids and what not in the couple years leading up to him leaving them....always digging him for not being around and always practicing and what not and its no secret as to how JLB felt about  MP trying to take them hostage with the hiatus declaration and how JLB reacted to MP's handling of the departure. .  I'd be willing to bet those two men held the door open for him as he walked out.

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 11, 2013, 08:02:38 PM

Quote from: rumborak on September 11, 2013, 10:00:21 AM
:lol

Him wanting to return, IMHO, is just an expression of his latest exploits not taking off as he hoped they would.

He's wanted to return basically ever since leaving DT, so that has very little to do with it. I think he probably regretted the decision from day 1.

Yeah, but like when you break up with a girl, you only find yourself reminiscing about it when you don't have anything new going on. One you got some new girl you're truly excited about you couldn't care less about your ex.

:marriageanalogy:

Quote from: kirksnosehair on September 09, 2013, 12:21:59 PM

Quote from: Ħ on September 07, 2013, 04:44:54 PM
Eh, I believe him. I mean, he was is an alcoholic and from what we can see, he's obsessive about some things. And we don't know everything that happens in his personal life, so we're in no place to doubt his word.

Just clearing up a small error in your post, Ħ

There is no such thing as "was" when it comes to alcoholism.  Once you cross that Rubicon there's no going back.

If someone stops masturbating, are they still a wankaholic?

Quote from: Zook on September 11, 2013, 10:22:45 PM
If someone stops masturbating, are they still a wankaholic?

What is this "stops masturbating" you speak of?

Quote from: rumborak on September 08, 2013, 01:24:36 PM
I don't think this is bashing, but I think everybody is aware of MP's flair for drama. He isn't just somebody who can't handle his liquor, he's an alcoholic and drug addict who writes about it for 5 albums straight. He doesn't just enjoy a memorabilia connection and keeps it in order, no, it's all because he has OCD. I have long learned that MP will describe everything in large and dramatic words.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  Being highly organized and/or anal is far from actual OCD.

And yeah.  I don't want to get too personal here, but MP seems to wear his past alcoholism as a badge.  12-part songs interspersed over 5 albums about being an alcoholic?  I can understand a song or two about getting over a major hurdle in your life, but MP seems to be using it to draw attention to himself more than anything else.

There's some people out there that are just drama queens, that flout their "disorders" just to get attention/sympathy and for "coolness" factor.  I know more than one of these types of people in real life.  I obviously don't know MP personally, but he strikes me as very similar to these people.

Also, I don't buy the "MP isn't responsible for DT's movement towards thrashy metal."  If there were any songs where he had influence, it would be the ones in his 12-step suite...and they're part and parcel of DT's change in style over the years.

Quote from: jsbru on September 14, 2013, 01:05:40 AM
Also, I don't buy the "MP isn't responsible for DT's movement towards thrashy metal."  If there were any songs where he had influence, it would be the ones in his 12-step suite...and they're part and parcel of DT's change in style over the years.

Two of the 12SS songs aren't thrashy at all, and they've continued to do that style of metal even without him, including BITS, LNF and TEI (and we've yet to fully hear DT12).
Whether you "buy" it or not, JP ie. a main songwriter and the guy who writes and plays the riffs, is just as responsible for DT's direction on recent albums in regards to thrashy riffing.

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2013, 01:20:09 AM
Two of the 12SS songs aren't thrashy at all, and they've continued to do that style of metal even without him, including BITS, LNF and TEI (and we've yet to fully hear DT12).
Whether you "buy" it or not, JP ie. a main songwriter and the guy who writes and plays the riffs, is just as responsible for DT's direction on recent albums in regards to thrashy riffing.

I'm sure JP had some influence too, but the first two and the last songs in the 12SS are some of their thrashy/heaviest ever released.  And the third is also pretty far in this direction at times.

I don't think MP was the only one, but he certainly had some influence in these songs, and they all are pretty much in line with the direction DT went in.

MP should just make the phrase "no comment" part of his vocabulary when asked these questions.  He's better off just not saying anything.

I can´t remember an ex-member of ANY BAND being more criticized by the fans than Mike Portnoy. Cut him some slack, guys...he did what he thought was right at the time. And who´s to say it wasn´t the right decision? We´re all aware of the friction in the band at the time BCSL came out, and isn´t it SO much better now? I certainly didn´t want him to leave, but since he did, I will appreciate DT for what it is today, and will listen to every project Mike does. The ONLY criticism I could have of Mike is that he was too vocal about it when he left, and that cost him a lot, and even drifted the attention of some of the projects he had in mind - joining Avenged Sevenfold for example. But hey, like I said in another thread here, Kevin Moore left years ago, wants to erase DT from his past completely, and still gets more respect in DTF than Mike. I struggle to understand that.

Anyway, it seems Mike is finally moving on. Here´s an excerpt of an interview he posted on his Twitter page 02 days ago:

Daniel/HRM: Some readers are going to want to hear about all that Dream Theater drama. But I'm not going to humor them. No one moves forward if they stay in the past. All I'll ask is if you all are on good terms now or at least "forgive and forget" about it.

Mike Portnoy/TWD: You just said you weren't gonna ask about it. (laughs) I'd rather not even talk about it. I'd rather talk about all the good positive things in my life, all the things I'm doing right now.

The past is the past, and I spent 25 years with it as the most important thing in my life. I devoted more than half of my life to that band and that legacy will be around forever, but I'd rather discuss the new things I'm doing.

Link to the whole interview: https://www.hiprockmagazine.com/#!the-winery-dogs/c1ahf

So, this is the first time he answers that way, and I really appreciate that. In the recent past he used to say something "I really don't wanna talk about it anymore, BUT ..... " and so on.
This is just mature and actually it reflects much more his personality, IMHO. We forget one important thing, at least to me: they are/were friends before band mates.

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on September 10, 2013, 06:02:38 PM

Quote from: Dacling on September 09, 2013, 01:48:20 PM

Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on September 09, 2013, 01:46:57 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the point of the OP. I'm pretty sure what the OP was trying to say is, if MP says he doesn't relate to the material, then why has he said numerous times that he'd rejoin DT in a heartbeat? Why would you want to rejoin a band if you don't relate to it anymore?

He'd probably find it more relateable if say. He was in the band and had creative input on the final project.

Pretty much agree with the above statement. I don't think it's a matter of MP not being interested in prog-metal - if that were the case, why is he doing the Progressive Nation at Sea thing? I think what it really boils down to is that he's not interested in the direction that DT has taken since he left the band. Although this is purely speculation on my part, I wouldn't be surprised if to some degree he thinks that they have regressed to some degree, falling back on what made them popular, as opposed to pushing the extremes, especially in the metal direction, which MP seems to be far more interested in (in general) than the other guys. So that's why I don't think it is confusing or hypocritical of him to say that he wouldn't mind rejoining DT if the band welcomed him back.

And yet if that's the case he hasn't pushed any metal boundaries since being a solo artist. AMob were as close as he's got to metal and he pushed those boundaries all the way to 1999.

Quote from: eviljust on September 14, 2013, 02:51:16 AM
So, this is the first time he answers that way, and I really appreciate that. In the recent past he used to say something "I really don't wanna talk about it anymore, BUT ..... " and so on.

Very true.

That was a good response he gave, though.  The interviewer tried to be high and mighty and then got caught doing what everybody else does

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 14, 2013, 01:20:09 AM

Quote from: jsbru on September 14, 2013, 01:05:40 AM
Also, I don't buy the "MP isn't responsible for DT's movement towards thrashy metal."  If there were any songs where he had influence, it would be the ones in his 12-step suite...and they're part and parcel of DT's change in style over the years.

Two of the 12SS songs aren't thrashy at all, and they've continued to do that style of metal even without him, including BITS, LNF and TEI (and we've yet to fully hear DT12).
Whether you "buy" it or not, JP ie. a main songwriter and the guy who writes and plays the riffs, is just as responsible for DT's direction on recent albums in regards to thrashy riffing.

Yea. I don't know how correct this is, but from the Score doc I always got the impression that ToT was JP's idea.

Quote from: Lowdz on September 14, 2013, 06:01:41 AM

Quote from: Setlist Scotty on September 10, 2013, 06:02:38 PM

Quote from: Dacling on September 09, 2013, 01:48:20 PM

Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on September 09, 2013, 01:46:57 PM
I think a lot of you are missing the point of the OP. I'm pretty sure what the OP was trying to say is, if MP says he doesn't relate to the material, then why has he said numerous times that he'd rejoin DT in a heartbeat? Why would you want to rejoin a band if you don't relate to it anymore?

He'd probably find it more relateable if say. He was in the band and had creative input on the final project.

Pretty much agree with the above statement. I don't think it's a matter of MP not being interested in prog-metal - if that were the case, why is he doing the Progressive Nation at Sea thing? I think what it really boils down to is that he's not interested in the direction that DT has taken since he left the band. Although this is purely speculation on my part, I wouldn't be surprised if to some degree he thinks that they have regressed to some degree, falling back on what made them popular, as opposed to pushing the extremes, especially in the metal direction, which MP seems to be far more interested in (in general) than the other guys. So that's why I don't think it is confusing or hypocritical of him to say that he wouldn't mind rejoining DT if the band welcomed him back.

And yet if that's the case he hasn't pushed any metal boundaries since being a solo artist. AMob were as close as he's got to metal and he pushed those boundaries all the way to 1999.

Fair point, but I'm not saying the man is just wanting to do nothing but metal from that point forward. I believe he thought it was in DT's best interests to continue pushing things in a more metal direction, rather than revert back to something much more closely to what they had done on previous albums, which is generally what it appears DT is doing (with JP even stating something to the effect that ADToE was a return to their roots).

As for MP getting his taste of metal, yeah he did get that with AMob (even if dated) and before that, A7X. And I wouldn't be surprised in the least if at some point in the future we'll see him in a much heavier thrash or death metal band.

Quote from: RodrigoAltaf on September 14, 2013, 02:29:18 AM
I can´t remember an ex-member of ANY BAND being more criticized by the fans than Mike Portnoy. Cut him some slack, guys...he did what he thought was right at the time. And who´s to say it wasn´t the right decision? We´re all aware of the friction in the band at the time BCSL came out, and isn´t it SO much better now? I certainly didn´t want him to leave, but since he did, I will appreciate DT for what it is today, and will listen to every project Mike does. The ONLY criticism I could have of Mike is that he was too vocal about it when he left, and that cost him a lot, and even drifted the attention of some of the projects he had in mind - joining Avenged Sevenfold for example. But hey, like I said in another thread here, Kevin Moore left years ago, wants to erase DT from his past completely, and still gets more respect in DTF than Mike. I struggle to understand that.

Anyway, it seems Mike is finally moving on. Here´s an excerpt of an interview he posted on his Twitter page 02 days ago:

Daniel/HRM: Some readers are going to want to hear about all that Dream Theater drama. But I'm not going to humor them. No one moves forward if they stay in the past. All I'll ask is if you all are on good terms now or at least "forgive and forget" about it.

Mike Portnoy/TWD: You just said you weren't gonna ask about it. (laughs) I'd rather not even talk about it. I'd rather talk about all the good positive things in my life, all the things I'm doing right now.

The past is the past, and I spent 25 years with it as the most important thing in my life. I devoted more than half of my life to that band and that legacy will be around forever, but I'd rather discuss the new things I'm doing.

Link to the whole interview: https://www.hiprockmagazine.com/#!the-winery-dogs/c1ahf

My personal, one-side issue with MP started when he tried to "take" the band's name with him. As a DT fan above anything it came out as something completely wrong for him to do, and if he hadn't done something similar to that I would look at him in a completely different way than the one I do at the moment. Which is pretty much Moore's case: his departure wasn't really a threat to anything in the band; he left and wanted to leave all of it in the past, completely opposite to what MP did.

Regarding the interview, I think in this situation he could've said that he talks with JP and JR every now and then since it is that way according to other interviews, but he didn't  ??? Either way, I guess it serves better the purpose of trying to leave the topic aside, which is pretty much what he should have done since some time ago.

Quote from: Daso on September 14, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
My personal, one-side issue with MP started when he tried to "take" the band's name with him. As a DT fan above anything it came out as something completely wrong for him to do, and if he hadn't done something similar to that I would look at him in a completely different way than the one I do at the moment.

Wasn't this purely speculation and never actually a thing?

Quote from: ariich on September 14, 2013, 12:48:06 PM

Quote from: Daso on September 14, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
My personal, one-side issue with MP started when he tried to "take" the band's name with him. As a DT fan above anything it came out as something completely wrong for him to do, and if he hadn't done something similar to that I would look at him in a completely different way than the one I do at the moment.

Wasn't this purely speculation and never actually a thing?

Well, no, it wasn't purely speculation.  Here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=27998.0) is the thread where we found out about some possible legal issues between MP and DT concerning the band name.  Lots of discussion about it here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26895.0) and here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26924.0) as well.

But here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28033.0) is the thread where we found out that there was no pending litigation and that Portnoy had never actually filed a formal complaint. 

So, it was definitely a thing, but it was a thing that involved a lot of misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions. 

Kind of ninja'd. Haven't checked into the threads, but I remember (and to sum it up) that it never came to legal matters, but there were issues around it.

Quote from: Jaffa on September 14, 2013, 01:09:11 PM

Quote from: ariich on September 14, 2013, 12:48:06 PM

Quote from: Daso on September 14, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
My personal, one-side issue with MP started when he tried to "take" the band's name with him. As a DT fan above anything it came out as something completely wrong for him to do, and if he hadn't done something similar to that I would look at him in a completely different way than the one I do at the moment.

Wasn't this purely speculation and never actually a thing?

Well, no, it wasn't purely speculation.  Here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=27998.0) is the thread where we found out about some possible legal issues between MP and DT concerning the band name.  Lots of discussion about it here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26895.0) and here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26924.0) as well.

But here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28033.0) is the thread where we found out that there was no pending litigation and that Portnoy had never actually filed a formal complaint. 

So, it was definitely a thing, but it was a thing that involved a lot of misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions. 

That's what I mean - he never actually tried to take the name, and claims that he did are purely speculation.

Well, I'd still disagree with 'purely speculation' - the original information definitely seemed to suggest that he was trying to prevent the band from using the name. 

But yes, it turned out that he wasn't.  Just a lot of drama over nothing. 

...and adding more to the pro speculation side, he has erroneously compared himself to Roger Waters' situation when he left PF, at least in his impact to the band. So I have no doubts he may have indeed felt a certain ownership of content much like RW.

Quote from: CableX 1814 on September 14, 2013, 06:27:26 PM
...and adding more to the pro speculation side, he has erroneously compared himself to Roger Waters' situation when he left PF, at least in his impact to the band. So I have no doubts he may have indeed felt a certain ownership of content much like RW.

I think he meant it more like "I´m never going back", just like Roger did.

Quote from: RodrigoAltaf on September 14, 2013, 06:34:24 PM

Quote from: CableX 1814 on September 14, 2013, 06:27:26 PM
...and adding more to the pro speculation side, he has erroneously compared himself to Roger Waters' situation when he left PF, at least in his impact to the band. So I have no doubts he may have indeed felt a certain ownership of content much like RW.

I think he meant it more like "I´m never going back", just like Roger did.

I saw that; I still swear I saw that he was comparing his impact in DT and the music to Waters impact and role in PF.

Quote from: ariich on September 14, 2013, 01:31:17 PM

Quote from: Jaffa on September 14, 2013, 01:09:11 PM

Quote from: ariich on September 14, 2013, 12:48:06 PM

Quote from: Daso on September 14, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
My personal, one-side issue with MP started when he tried to "take" the band's name with him. As a DT fan above anything it came out as something completely wrong for him to do, and if he hadn't done something similar to that I would look at him in a completely different way than the one I do at the moment.

Wasn't this purely speculation and never actually a thing?

Well, no, it wasn't purely speculation.  Here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=27998.0) is the thread where we found out about some possible legal issues between MP and DT concerning the band name.  Lots of discussion about it here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26895.0) and here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26924.0) as well.

But here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28033.0) is the thread where we found out that there was no pending litigation and that Portnoy had never actually filed a formal complaint. 

So, it was definitely a thing, but it was a thing that involved a lot of misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions. 

That's what I mean - he never actually tried to take the name, and claims that he did are purely speculation.

Well, it is all speculation because it was never actually explained.  The most I heard was that there was the threat of a lawsuit in order to get things settled.  Whatever that means, who knows. 

Quote from: Madman Shepherd on September 14, 2013, 10:26:45 AM

Quote from: eviljust on September 14, 2013, 02:51:16 AM
So, this is the first time he answers that way, and I really appreciate that. In the recent past he used to say something "I really don't wanna talk about it anymore, BUT ..... " and so on.

Very true.

That was a good response he gave, though.  The interviewer tried to be high and mighty and then got caught doing what everybody else does

Had he answered all questions about DT like this since the split  I would think more fondly of him, and eventually they would stop asking and putting him in that position. Never too late though. Keep going in this vein Mike.

Quote from: Madman Shepherd on September 15, 2013, 08:19:54 AM

Quote from: ariich on September 14, 2013, 01:31:17 PM

Quote from: Jaffa on September 14, 2013, 01:09:11 PM

Quote from: ariich on September 14, 2013, 12:48:06 PM

Quote from: Daso on September 14, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
My personal, one-side issue with MP started when he tried to "take" the band's name with him. As a DT fan above anything it came out as something completely wrong for him to do, and if he hadn't done something similar to that I would look at him in a completely different way than the one I do at the moment.

Wasn't this purely speculation and never actually a thing?

Well, no, it wasn't purely speculation.  Here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=27998.0) is the thread where we found out about some possible legal issues between MP and DT concerning the band name.  Lots of discussion about it here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26895.0) and here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26924.0) as well.

But here (https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28033.0) is the thread where we found out that there was no pending litigation and that Portnoy had never actually filed a formal complaint. 

So, it was definitely a thing, but it was a thing that involved a lot of misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions. 

That's what I mean - he never actually tried to take the name, and claims that he did are purely speculation.

Well, it is all speculation because it was never actually explained.  The most I heard was that there was the threat of a lawsuit in order to get things settled.  Whatever that means, who knows.

He was quite vague about it, but in the new issue of Guitar World with JP on the cover he mentions in The Interview Inside that the legal dust, so to say, has only recently settled.  Something about organizational legal issues that take a long time to sort out after a long-time band member splits.  The usual stuff like royalties, no doubt, but it seems naive not to suppose there were other details--lesser at least--that had to be settled.  If the rights to the name was part of it, who knows.

If the name was part of it, I seriously doubt MP had any intention of ever using the name on his own, so I'd expect he would have only sought a settlement.

I never took it as Mike wanting to use the name, but I did understand him potentially having a problem with the rest of the band continuing to use it.  Just because he left the band doesn't mean he automatically gives up all rights to the name, especially if he is a part owner and those rights are spelled out in some kind of legal documentation.  That's what needed to be sorted out.