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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 12:49:41 AM

Title: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 12:49:41 AM: So, it's Top 50 time! What to say to introduce this...My DT preferences are somewhat eclectic. I'm more of a metal guy than a proghead, but I also really enjoy the long songs and interesting arrangements that DT's more progressive material provides. Further, I'm a huge fan of '80s-style stuff, so the early albums have that going for them. So overall, I'm kind of all over the map. Expect some surprises with the list. Also, I write a lot, so bear with me on that.

I'll update the OP as I go along.

#50.) Ytse Jam
#49.) Just Let Me Breathe
#48.) Wither
#47.) New Millennium
#46.) Panic Attack
#45.) Never Enough
#44.) The Mirror
#43.) Outcry
#42.) Constant Motion
#41.) On The Backs of Angels
#40.) Endless Sacrifice
#39.) Lie
#38.) Breaking All Illusions
#37.) Forsaken
#36.) Bridges In The Sky
#35.) Trial Of Tears
#34.) Lines In The Sand
#33.) Blind Faith
#32.) This Is The Life
#31.) Finally Free
#30.) The Root of All Evil
#29.) Anna Lee
#28.) A Nightmare To Remember
#27.) Build Me Up, Break Me Down
#26.) Scarred
#25.) Under A Glass Moon
#24.) Surrounded
#23.) Take The Time
#22.) Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
#21.) Beyond This Life
#20.) As I Am
#19.) Afterlife
#18.) The Count Of Tuscany
#17.) Fatal Tragedy
#16.) Metropolis
#15.) The Spirit Carries On
#14.) Peruvian Skies
#13.) Pull Me Under
#12.) Voices
#11.) Another Day
#10.) The Glass Prison
#9.) Home
#8.) Octavarium
#7.) The Best Of Times
#6.) A Change Of Seasons
#5.) The Ministry Of Lost Souls
#4.) In The Presence Of Enemies
#3.) Learning To Live
#2.) In The Name Of God
#1.) The Killing Hand
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Sycsa on June 04, 2013, 06:53:17 AM: Why start the topic and not the list? C'mon. :hat
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 04, 2013, 11:38:47 AM: No kidding. :lol
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 11:51:07 AM: Alright, alright.

#50.) Ytse Jam

This is the only instrumental that will appear in my list. It's also my favorite DT instrumental. Why? A number of reasons. First, it's relatively compact. I find that DT's instrumentals (YJ included) tend to be essentially split into thirds--the first third introducing some motifs, the second introducing solos, and the final one rehashing/slightly modifying those motifs. As a result, the song tends to drag if it's overly long or if the motifs aren't all that interesting. Ytse Jam's directness place it above Erotomania and TDOE (whose main motifs drag a bit) and SOC (which is just too long to hold my attention, a rarity for DT tracks).

DT instrumentals tend to go downhill after the solo sections, and YJ is no exception. Thankfully, though, there isn't more than about 90 seconds after the solo section in the track, which keeps it from wearing out its welcome. Also, the solos themselves showcase all four members in pretty excellent form, combining technical chops with some emotive chord progressions (especially the case for KM and JP's solos). The room the band makes for these pyrotechnics, and the intensity at which they tear through them, makes this track a pretty fun one that still sounds fresh almost 25 years later.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 04, 2013, 11:54:24 AM: Interesting that you have that pegged above Erotomania (probably my favorite DT instrumental). Always opinions. :)
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 12:01:47 PM: Quote from: DebraKadabra on June 04, 2013, 11:54:24 AM
Interesting that you have that pegged above Erotomania (probably my favorite DT instrumental). Always opinions. :)

There's some great stuff in Erotomania. It's grown on me over the years. Just not a big fan of the main riff. It grates on me for whatever reason. I enjoy everything else in the song though.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 04, 2013, 12:02:27 PM: Fair enough.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: GasparXR on June 04, 2013, 12:04:52 PM: What you said about the instrumentals being cut into thirds, I can kind of see that actually. Although I disagree that they go downhill after the solos, at least for SoC. I find it gets WAY better in the last third.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 04, 2013, 12:09:21 PM: Ytse Jam is nice, it was #49 in my list, so the position is very agreeable :D
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 10:44:10 PM: #49.) Just Let Me Breathe

While they're of course known for their more progressive stuff, DT certainly has their fair share of songs where their "formula" (perhaps a misnomer when applied to a band with such eclectic material, but anyway) gets condensed into tighter timespans and more standard arrangements. These shorter tunes get mixed results from people--we all probably dig at least a few, and this certainly isn't the only one on the list for me, but we all probably have at least two or three that we find to be among DT's worst output. Of course, much of the negative attention with regards to the more condensed songs focuses on those on the Falling Into Infinity album, including "Just Let Me Breathe."

I enjoy the song, though. Like Ytse Jam, it's far from DT's biggest artistic statement, but it's a fun, tight song that rocks from start to finish. And unlike some of the other shorter FII tracks, the band originally conceived it essentially the way it ended up on the album. Comparing the feel of the track to FII's two most reviled--Burning My Soul and You Not Me--I think you can see the band has a lot of enthusiasm for the track, and they tear through it with more conviction than they do the "cut up" songs.

Nice performances from James, Mike, and Derek on this one. Nothing great about it that really pushes it into the top half of the DT discography, but also no bits that don't work. A well-constructed, solid song.

#48.) Wither

Okay, I promise I'm not just going to list DT's fifty shortest songs. Wither is, of course, another quickie, but unlike JLMB, it comes in the middle of an album of basically all epics (and the underwhelming AROP), which makes it seem more like an afterthought or interlude than a real part of the album.

But, again, there's nothing out of place. Quick (well, knowing me, moderately quick) tangent--one big reason DT is my favorite band (and has been for six years now) is that on any given album, each song really has its own unique character. The songs stand out as individual songs, not just reworkings of the same formula. A lot of other "prog metal" bands (and this is nothing against them, because I really like them)--Symphony X, Royal Hunt, etc.--are "progressive" in the sense that they have long, technically proficient songs with some interesting features, but they aren't progressive in terms of mining different sonic territory the way DT is. The flip side of this is that, in sticking to an arrangement template more stridently, those bands' songs are more consistent and they don't take left turns that a listener with certain tastes might find problematic, something that DT sometimes does because they cover so much stylistic ground in the course of a song, let alone an album or discography. You know, the whole "that part doesn't fit with the rest of the song!" thing. We may not agree as a community which parts don't fit with which songs, but we probably each have a few parts we wish were cut (The Reckoning, anyone?).

But it's hard to argue that Wither has any parts that don't fit with the rest of the song. It's a pretty simple track, with basic guitar, bass, and vocals. There are only three things about the song that really draw attention: the drums, the piano breakdown, and the guitar solo. And all three of those things are pretty good, and none of the other stuff is overtly bad--a bit generic, sure, but not in an on-the-nose, You Not Me sort of way that calls unwanted attention. The song doesn't overstay its welcome and feels shorter than its five-minute-plus runtime. While it comes across as an afterthought on BCSL, I find that it holds up better four years later than the tracks that immediately precede and follow it.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Podaar on June 05, 2013, 06:46:29 AM: Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 10:44:10 PM
#49.) Just Let Me Breathe

You won't get much love 'round here for this choice me thinks. Except from this kid! :metal Strike up you best angst ridden posture :metal
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Dream Team on June 05, 2013, 07:11:38 AM: Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on June 04, 2013, 12:01:47 PM
Quote from: DebraKadabra on June 04, 2013, 11:54:24 AM
Interesting that you have that pegged above Erotomania (probably my favorite DT instrumental). Always opinions. :)

There's some great stuff in Erotomania. It's grown on me over the years. Just not a big fan of the main riff. It grates on me for whatever reason. I enjoy everything else in the song though.

Agreed.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 05, 2013, 08:15:11 AM: Quote from: Podaar on June 05, 2013, 06:46:29 AM
Strike up you best X-rated posture :metal
FTFY :biggrin:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on June 05, 2013, 08:33:08 AM: VERY interested to see what #1 will be already. This will be fun to follow ;D
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on June 05, 2013, 12:39:58 PM: Quote from: ? on June 05, 2013, 08:15:11 AM
Quote from: Podaar on June 05, 2013, 06:46:29 AM
Strike up you best X-rated posture :metal
FTFY :zydar:

Another fix!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 05, 2013, 07:16:37 PM: Not nearly enough love around here for Wither. :heart
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lolzeez on June 07, 2013, 02:58:39 AM: Gee I wonder what #1 will be...
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 07, 2013, 03:19:00 PM: Glad to see JLMB in the top half. It is a killer song with high energy, just like you said.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 07, 2013, 09:42:04 PM: #47: New Millennium

For a while, I never really gave Falling Into Infinity a chance. I first came across DT in 2006/07, and coming from a more metal perspective, I was bigger into the ToT kind of stuff, as well as the "classics" of IAW, along with the most recent album at the time, Octavarium. Learning about the history of the band and hearing all the slagging on FII obviously didn't introduce it in the most positive light, and the more egregiously straightforward songs left a bad taste in my mouth as well.

I'll discuss more about what got me to reevaluate it later on, but suffice it to say that I ultimately gave the album a thorough reexamination fairly recently, and have really started to appreciate some of the songs on the disc. One of those is New Millennium. There's a lot of creative instrumentation in the track (Chapman Stick, guitar effects, vocal orchestration), as well as an aggressive and inspired vocal take from James.

#46: Panic Attack

Another solid song. James turns in another nice performance here, though a lot more atmospheric than New Millennium. It's a fairly catchy tune, it's nice to see JM featured in the opening, and it's also the first non-instrumental on the list that really makes a lot of room for solos. While JR and JP's solos don't rank among their best, they also don't rank among their worst, either. In addition to the solo pyrotechnics, the song's arranged nicely and feels shorter than its runtime, which is a hallmark of a well-constructed DT song. So it's the first song on this list to really fuse the technical wizardry that's been DT's biggest claim to fame with a really solid arrangement (Wither does, too, but that's so stripped down that it's a whole different thing).

It is overpublicized due to its inclusion in Rock Band 2--so many DT songs seem like they'd be better fits for a game like that, but like Pull Me Under, it's so overrated that it starts to become underrated because a lot of people write it off. Its fame is certainly disproportionate to its merit when it comes to DT tracks, but that doesn't mean it isn't a rock-solid work.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 07, 2013, 11:01:33 PM: Nice pics. I really like both songs. :tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 08, 2013, 06:22:03 AM: Spot on! I'm really liking these writeups so far!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 09, 2013, 03:32:58 PM: Panic Attack :metal

New Millennium is better than people around here make it out to be. Sure, it's not one of their best but it's DEFINITELY not one of their worst.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 09, 2013, 08:08:22 PM: #45.) Never Enough

Okay, I know this song has a pretty negative reputation. Having not become a DT fan until after Octavarium was released, I can't say I know much about the exact fan climate of 2004/05 that inspired Mike Portnoy to write these lyrics. Without that context, though, it certainly seems that that's one of the least relatable topics an artist can decide to write a song about. Not only do the lyrics lash out at fans (the very people who are, of course, supposed to listen to the music); the accusations they make are only really directed at a very small portion of the fanbase (or so MP says, though certainly it stands to reason that he's not blaming casual fans for overloading him with requests). So the result is that he alienates a lot of people he wasn't even writing about because they get grouped in with the small number he actually was angry at.

That's probably not the smartest move in the history of DT, and the song's reputation suffers badly from it, as well as the seeming comparisons to Muse (who I honestly can't say I'm all that familiar with). Strip away all of that negativity and context, though, and you're left with a pretty damn good song. Never Enough comes across a lot like Panic Attack, with fast riffing and a very open, spacey sound (that characterizes a lot of Octavarium). It's a better song, though, for a few reasons. First, the opening riff is more compelling--when the band kicks in, they rock with a manic, aggressive energy that isn't often present to that extent in DT's music. Second, the guitar tone really stands out in the song, especially in the second verse, which has a really cool crescendo effect even with its very simple patterns. Third, the band downshifts into a pretty massive, hooky chorus. And finally, Never Enough's instrumental section is direct, compelling, and interesting--there's not a lot of time wasted on "establishing riffs" and such, as JP and JR launch into interesting leads that twist and turn and also feature interesting sonic elements. The instrumental section also leads very well into the final chorus.

So yes, the lyrics are troubling, in a sense. But I'm not one who really pays much attention to lyrics, and everything else here is quite good. Likewise, even if the band really did ape Muse here, the result was a sound that's not present in too many other DT songs (Panic Attack and Prophets of War, and that's about it), and actually pushed them in some interesting directions. I wouldn't want DT to suddenly turn out a whole album of songs like this, which is why Octavarium in general is one of my least favorite albums. But Never Enough stands out as the best of DT's "modern progressive pop" songs that characterize much of that disc.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 09, 2013, 09:02:13 PM: I don't know... in the context that we have now, Never Enough just seems really whiny.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 10, 2013, 07:34:15 AM: I love this writeup. great to see the love for Never Enough. It's doesn't win the creativity award, but is still a kick-ass song.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: iamtheeviltwin on June 10, 2013, 07:50:09 AM: I love NE, I also wasn't "plugged into" the fan culture at the time the song was released so I never felt the "sting" of the lyrics in that personal sense. However, if you divorce (ha marriage analogy) the lyrics from that situation they are strong lyrics about trying to appease someone (or someones) who make you feel that they are never satisfied with what you actually do achieve or give. NE fits right in with other songs like As I Am, Far From Heaven, and You Not (Or) Me. (Songs I realize most fans don't like either...guess it is not a popular theme among DT fans)

Plus it is just a rocking tune.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 10, 2013, 08:42:42 AM: I didn't become a DT fan until 2009, but I don't like the NE lyrics and the music itself isn't great, either.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on June 10, 2013, 10:00:34 AM: Never Enough :metal!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 10, 2013, 10:50:58 PM: Quote from: ? on June 10, 2013, 08:42:42 AM
I didn't become a DT fan until 2009, but I don't like the NE lyrics and the music itself isn't great, either.

I'd have to disagree. I don't have a problem with the music so much as I have a problem with the lyrics.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 12, 2013, 12:57:25 AM: Alright, time for two more!

#44.) The Mirror

The Mirror holds an interesting place in DT's discography. In a lot of ways, it's the heaviest song in their catalogue, which is quite odd, seeing as it arrived eight or nine years before the band's move to more metallic backdrops (depending on whether you count TGP or TOT as the real sign of that transition). Further, the song is very much a stripped-down piece. And sure, DT goes stripped-down aesthetics at times--The Silent Man, Wait For Sleep, Wither, The Answer Lies Within, and so on are proof. But all of those songs are basically ballads, whereas The Mirror is anything but. It's based on an extremely basic riff, and there are notably no solos in its nearly seven-minute runtime.

No, the song essentially rides on two things: atmosphere (provided by the constant heavy riff and some fantastic work by Kevin Moore) and unbelievably aggressive vocals from James--the sort of performance even Russell Allen might struggle to pull off. Given the events that occurred with James just a year after the recording of the track, there's a certain nostalgia that comes with listening to him absolutely dominate a song like this, and it's also cool to see the vocalist carry a song--so many DT songs, of course, focus far more on the instrumentalists than the singing.

Of course, the downside is that The Mirror is a fairly one-dimensional song. James is great, Kevin's atmosphere is great, and the riffing is pretty cool, but the song is quite monolithic, with little breathing room from beginning to end. That's kind of the point, which is fine, but the lack of forward momentum and dynamism in the song limits its replay value, and you really have to be in a certain mood to want to hear it over a lot of the other DT tracks.

#43.) Outcry

I like almost all of DT's "epics"--for the sake of simplicity, let's define "epics" as "10-minute-plus songs"--and Outcry is no exception.

The song has a lot of things going for it. The intro is great, combining electronica sounds (which I normally dislike, but actually like a lot here, which says something about how effectively they're deployed) with a great opening riff and big choir sound (one of my favorite Jordan rhythm staples). The verses are pretty solid, and the chorus is the best on ADTOE. In fact, all the parts of the song that have vocals are probably the best on ADTOE (though the prechorus seems a bit tossed-off and could've been a bit tighter).

But there is also a four minute, twenty-three second instrumental section, and that section is quite problematic. Sure, there are some cool moments--7:08-7:42 is great, and the ascending guitar from 8:19-8:43 is effective--but they only comprise about a third of the section. In between those moments, there's a lot of very noodley stuff that leads to a dead end as often as it leads to a good idea, and an absolutely ridiculous atonal section from 6:45-7:08 that absolutely kills whatever momentum the song has (though I will say it's cool to hear John Myung play something resembling a lead there for a second).

Beyond that, there are a couple of other issues with the instrumental section. First, there's nothing really resembling a solo in there, except for that brief guitar line/unison--it's just a flurry of notes from all the instrumentalists (even JM!) without a whole lot of distinction between the members, so the band never really makes it clear who's supposed to be emphasized and compelling. Second, the section lets us down in an entirely different place from where we started, in a third verse that uses instrumental patterns that hadn't previously arisen in the song, so it's totally unfamiliar. When that verse kicks in, I always have that "Oh yeah, that's right, there was stuff before the instrumental section" moment, as if I now have to totally readjust to a new song.

Overall, there's some cool stuff here, but the instrumental section just has far too much filler for my tastes and really robs the song of the propulsive momentum that the first 4 1/2 minutes build. With a reworking, this could've been the best song on ADTOE; instead, it's one of DT's weakest epics.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Podaar on June 12, 2013, 07:31:15 AM: Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on June 12, 2013, 12:57:25 AM
-snip- and an absolutely ridiculous atonal section from 6:45-7:08 that absolutely kills whatever momentum the song has (though I will say it's cool to hear John Myung play something resembling a lead there for a second).

I couldn't possibly disagree more with this statement. To me, this is THE most interesting, fun and exciting moment in this song. I would love to hear DT explore this type of composition more but I certainly realize why these passages must be 'sprinkles' for them.

Though my views are hardly surprising given my avatar and screen name. :lol
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 12, 2013, 08:30:25 AM: The Mirror :metal Outcry has aged less well than the other songs on ADTOE for me (thanks to the instrumental section), but I still like it.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 12, 2013, 09:34:00 AM: I agree with just about everything you said on Outcry. So far your opinions are so much like mine I can't wait to see what your top songs are going to be. I am so following this until the end.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 12, 2013, 11:40:52 AM: Quote from: Podaar on June 12, 2013, 07:31:15 AM
Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on June 12, 2013, 12:57:25 AM
-snip- and an absolutely ridiculous atonal section from 6:45-7:08 that absolutely kills whatever momentum the song has (though I will say it's cool to hear John Myung play something resembling a lead there for a second).

I couldn't possibly disagree more with this statement. To me, this is THE most interesting, fun and exciting moment in this song. I would love to hear DT explore this type of composition more but I certainly realize why these passages must be 'sprinkles' for them.

Though my views are hardly surprising given my avatar and screen name. :lol

Hey, I'm glad to know they reached someone with that bit, man. Certainly didn't reach me, though.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on June 12, 2013, 01:41:01 PM: At a rate of one song a day, this list will go on for almost two months.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on June 12, 2013, 01:45:15 PM: Quote from: Destiny Of Chaos on June 12, 2013, 01:41:01 PM
At a rate of one song a day, this list will go on for almost two months.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 12, 2013, 02:32:58 PM: Yeah, gonna try to speed it up in the coming days. Probably will do three a day, starting later tonight.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 13, 2013, 01:07:48 AM: Alright, here's three more! Gonna make for a heck of a long post, haha.

#42: Constant Motion

Systematic Chaos gets a lot of hate, but I'm not among its detractors. Of the album's songs, Constant Motion probably isn't among the most disliked (my gut reaction is that Prophets of War, The Ministry of Lost Souls, and The Dark Eternal Night are probably the lowest-rated tracks on the disc here on DTF), but few place it among the album's highlights, either. Still, I think the track is a good example of DT being accessible without abandoning their strengths.

Each album, there's a song like this, the "midstream DT" track that isn't overly ambitious and proggy, but also isn't noticeably stripped down. Octavarium had Panic Attack, SC had Constant Motion, BC&SL had A Rite of Passage, and even ADTOE had On The Backs of Angels. Constant Motion is one of the better-executed songs in this vein, though. It propels forward with a lot of energy, it has a hooky chorus (with some pretty nice vocals from both James and Mike), and the soloing is pretty solid too (though I wish JP had a riff that was a bit more powerful to lay that awesome solo over). And there's nothing out of place that really robs the song of its momentum. Nothing overly spectacular, but that's kind of the point--the song plays it down the middle and is accessible but not particularly challenging. It's well-executed for what it is, and that puts it in the upper portion of the middle layer of DT songs.

#41.) On The Backs of Angels

Here's another one. A lot of what I said about Constant Motion also applies here, and that's largely why they're right next to each other on my list--they're well-executed songs that fill the same role on the albums they're on. On The Backs of Angels doesn't have the same energy that Constant Motion does, which sometimes leaves this lingering feeling that it could be a better song than it is. At the same time, though, On The Backs of Angels also holds the important place of being the first song we heard in the post-Portnoy era, the one that reassured us DT was still DT (and also reassured some that they were returning to a pre-ToT DT, not that I was in the group that wished for that to happen). Further, it has a more grandiose presentation that Constant Motion does, which makes its best moments (the band kicking in with the big choir sound, and the piano solo) stand out a bit more. I could easily flip the two songs on the list.

#40.) Endless Sacrifice

The first DT album I really got into was Train of Thought, and thus Endless Sacrifice was one of the first songs I really got addicted to. I love the heavy stuff, and this song has a lot of it. Tradeoff solos and a lot of heavy riffing, but also some progressive elements with the arrangement and the slow build of the verses.

It hasn't aged as well as the other two ToT songs I went nuts about in early '07 when I discovered the band, mostly because as I went through the rest of the discography, I realized how unremarkable it was in the grand scope of DT's works. It's nowhere near the longest song, or the heaviest, or the proggiest, or the catchiest, or the most technical. The arrangement is better than, say, Outcry's, though again, there's a lot of very uncompelling and unneeded riffing before the solos, which themselves are a bit on the wanky, unrelated-to-the-song side. JR's break before the solos also seems very out of place and calls a lot of attention to itself, though the bit is actually pretty cool, so I can excuse it. And like Outcry, the long instrumental section puts the listener back down in an unfamiliar (but cool) place, which gives it more of a two-songs-pasted-together feel than there should be.

It's a better song than Outcry because it doesn't lose momentum as badly, but the highlights of the song aren't particularly high, and it's also not one of James' better performances (I'd say his vocal work on Train of Thought is probably his weakest with DT, though I still love the album anyway). It actually is a pretty damn great song, but Dream Theater is Dream Theater, and they're so great that they made 39 other songs I like better.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 13, 2013, 01:14:08 AM: CM is easily my favourite of the bunch. Cool song. OTBOA is ok but very sterile imo, and Endless Sacrifice hasn't aged well for me either. My least favourite on ToT.

Kinda what I'd expect at these positions. :tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on June 13, 2013, 09:21:33 AM: I love Constant Motion, especially the drum break in the middle, before the solo.

On The Backs Of Angels is quite good, not one of my favorites, though.

Endless Sacrifice is probably my second favorite of Train Of Thought.

So, good choices! :tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: iamtheeviltwin on June 13, 2013, 10:37:01 AM: CM does not belong in any top 50...easily one of the worst DT songs that is not from WDADU.

Love the other two though. Endless Sacrifice has some great lyrical depth on top of the rocking tune.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 13, 2013, 03:39:30 PM: Constant Motion is a great fun song. Doesn't break any ground, may sound a bit too much like a Metallica ape for some, but I think it's great. This sounds about right for it. It sounds like they're having fun playing it more than just about any song in DT's catalog.

OTBOA- probably about where I'd put it. solid song, and I always enjoy listening to it, but I don't think of it as one of those DT songs that I need to cue up.

Endless Sacrifice- The end sure is good, but it's hard to sit through the first half of the song. I would agree that it's my least fav off TOT.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 15, 2013, 12:39:42 AM: Three more:

#39.) Lie

Yep, Lie above the Mirror (though not by much). Pretty similar songs, as one might expect given their common origin--heavy riffing with James providing powerful, gritty vocals. Lie's melodies and overall arrangement are a bit weaker, and it doesn't have the sheer force of The Mirror, but it does have some crazy soloing from JP that gives the song more dynamism. That makes it just slightly more enjoyable than The Mirror for me.

#38.) Breaking All Illusions

I'm not a big fan of A Dramatic Turn of Events in general. There are two big weaknesses with it for my taste. First, the production is poor. Since Live at Luna Park hasn't been released yet, we can't even play the "But the live version captures the feel of the song so much better!" game--honestly, I hope that the DVD improves my feelings on some of these songs. But the song is supposed to be epic-sounding, and the production renders it flatter than it needs to be to achieve that goal. The chorus, in particular, just doesn't quite gel for me (what's with the weird hihat?).

Second, a lot of ADTOE is quite samey--the "epics" of Bridges In The Sky, Outcry, and Breaking All Illusions all are about 11 minutes or so, with fairly long intros, a couple verses and choruses, very long proggy instrumental sections, and then some brief vocal bits and a short outro. Add ten-minute Lost Not Forgotten in there and you have four songs with that same basic outline, which I think makes them start to blend together and hurts how unique each comes across.

The song is good; it's probably the best-arranged of the four long tracks on ADTOE. But I just don't see the great song that a lot of other people see. There are a lot of good parts (Myung's bass in the intro, the "Live in the moment..." section, JPs solo), but the whole thing just seems so safe and calculated. Part of that is the aforementioned production issues failing to push the song to the "next level," but part of it is also the song failing to quite cohere into the latter-day masterpiece it so wants to be. That ambition is a little too palpable in the song, I think--not to get all Thiago-y, but the band seems so intent on sticking to a formula that the parts themselves seem more calculated than inspired. Yes, it calls back to the glory days of Images and Words, but it merely echoes them rather than transcending them. The result is a song that does hold attention for its twelve-minute-plus runtime with a lot of good parts and no real missteps, but never quite takes that step into true greatness in any one of those sections because the band seems more focused on what not to do than what to do. And so it goes here on my list--an above-average DT song, but one that doesn't quite stack up with many of their previous epics. Hopefully they'll slay it on LALP and I'll reconsider.

#37.) Forsaken

Another short, well-written track that distills DT to a very basic formula without seeming too stripped-down. Nice vocal work from James in this one that proved, along with Constant Motion and In The Presence of Enemies, that he was regaining an edge to his voice on heavier tracks (after Octavarium's vocals were mostly quite clean and the preceding Train of Thought saw James (and sometimes Jordan) struggle to fit in to the newfound heaviness of JP and the rhythm section. JP provides tasteful lead work both in the main solo and leading up to the chorus and Jordan adds nice backing. The song is about as long as Wither, but it has several more interesting things going on without losing any coherence, which places it 11 spots above Wither on my list.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 15, 2013, 02:02:57 AM: Forsaken is one of the few songs on SC I actually like :tup I prefer The Mirror to Lie, but ranking Lie higher isn't controversial to me, because it has awesome lyrics (come at me!) and the soloing is kickass, as you mentioned.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 15, 2013, 02:16:08 AM: Quote from: ? on June 15, 2013, 02:02:57 AM
Forsaken is one of the few songs on SC I actually like :tup I prefer The Mirror to Lie, but ranking Lie higher isn't controversial to me, because it has awesome lyrics (come at me!) and the soloing is kickass, as you mentioned.

Agreed. I don't care much about lyrics, but the lyrical flow of Lie does stand out to me.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 17, 2013, 09:04:03 PM: Five more coming tomorrow!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 19, 2013, 12:24:34 AM: #36.) Bridges In The Sky

Another ADTOE epic that doesn't quite add up to the sum of its parts. Again, there's a lot of good stuff here--the intro is a welcome departure from the sameness of the album (and I'll never say no to a choir part), the vocals are great and the melodies are well-written, with the verses and choruses boasting nice atmospherics, and there's nothing too out-of-place in the instrumental section.

However, there are a few problems. JP goes for a lot of heavy riffing in the song, but the production renders his tone unusually muddy, and the riffs aren't really memorable anyway, so the music doesn't quite get the rockin' momentum it's aiming to gather. The instrumental section isn't as annoying as Outcry's--in fact, it isn't annoying at all. But there also isn't anything all that memorable either--JPs solo kind of enters out of nowhere and doesn't leave an impression, and while Jordan's continuum bit shows a lot of promise, he abandons it after a mere sixteen notes. The song's general structural similarity to LNF, Outcry, and BAI also makes it blend together with those songs--note how BITS is just above BAI and only a few spots above Outcry. A good song--one of the best on the album--but a song that lacks those one or two great elements that take it from above-average to a classic.

#35.) Trial of Tears

Another song that benefits a lot from my recent reappraisal of FII. In a lot of ways, it has the same feel as BAI--a midtempo epic that flirts with both metallic and atmospheric textures but never quite plunges into either fully. There are some really cool parts, most notably the downshift into "The Wasteland" and the solos. The verses of the song are a bit aimless and dawdly, though, as the song doesn't really start to go anywhere for awhile. That doesn't sink the song or anything, because there's nothing all that bad--a staple of the pre-Jordan era was that, while the band took a lot of musical detours, nothing quite came out of left field--but among DT's epics, Trail of Tears makes you work a bit harder than most to get to its greatness, and the payoff isn't quite as high as a lot of the other songs.

Overall, the song simultaneously shows that a) DT hadn't lost their proggy edge on FII and b) despite a), they weren't always quite sure what they were going for, teetering on the edges of their stylistic components without really taking full advantage of them. It certainly didn't attain the heights of Learning To Live from two albums prior. But you could certainly see the band that wrote Learning To Live was still there--one that would come back full force to write some true classics on SFAM just two years later.

#34.) Lines In The Sand

As with the ADTOE epics, I find it tough to separate Trial of Tears and Lines In The Sand. You can say a lot of the same things about both songs--they feature excellent extended solos and have a couple of interesting vocal bits and riffs, but there's also a lot of fairly middle-of-the-road sections (particularly in the verses) that seem to just adequately fill space rather than really being compelling. Both songs also have a couple of vocal sections that show the wear on James' voice post-accident and thus aren't quite as climactic as they were written to be.

#33.) Blind Faith

And here's another one. You could stick Blind Faith on FII and a lot of it would fit right in. The verses are on the generic side, and while the chorus tries for a big hook, there's something about it that's never quite gelled for me.

What elevates this song above some of the other epics is a fantastic instrumental section that features great soloing from both JR and JP, as well as some fantastic riffing. It's a truly gorgeous section and really pulls the song from just a generic middle-of-the-pack DT tune to one of their more memorable mid-career songs.

#32.) This Is The Life

Here's an ADTOE song that I think works as well as it's intended to. The extended ballad format benefits a lot from James' return to form on ADTOE, and his vocals make the final chorus a rousing climax. JP adds a pretty good solo and some well-executed clean and rhythm parts, and Jordan gives the song room to breathe. It was also nice to hear the band try a different type of song on ADTOE--I can't recall DT doing a mid-length ballad, really. Another Day, Anna Lee, The Silent Man, One Last Time, and Wither are short, and The Best of Times, The Ministry of Lost Souls, etc. are really long. Am I forgetting something? In any case, the template/arrangement for This Is The Life isn't one that's been delved into excessively, which makes it sound fresher and more unique than most of the rest of ADTOE. The band executes it well, and this is also a song that isn't marred by the album's generally substandard production. It's one of the highlights of the album for me.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on June 19, 2013, 06:21:37 AM: The songs in the middle are great, I rank them all higher. BITS is good too, it made my top 50 by a hair.

I have a feeling that ITPOE might pop up somewhere on this list.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 19, 2013, 08:23:52 AM: I rank all of those higher, except TITL.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on June 19, 2013, 10:29:25 AM: The middle three should be at least 30 places higher, all are Top 10 songs for me, and ToT is my favourite DT song of all time.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 19, 2013, 10:42:35 AM: Quote from: Scorpion on June 19, 2013, 10:29:25 AM
The first, third, and fourth should be at least 20 places higher.

Trial of Tears is probably about where it should be. But it's criminal that you have Lines in the Sand so low. Lines in the Sand in particular has an excellent climax, one of DT's best. The "Centers our perspective" and "mysteries we nurture" guitar parts in the last verse are orgasmic. So it is strange that you would say it doesn't.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on June 19, 2013, 11:00:33 AM: Quote from: nicmos on June 19, 2013, 10:42:35 AM
Quote from: Scorpion on June 19, 2013, 10:29:25 AM
The first, third, and fourth should be at least 20 places higher.

Trial of Tears is probably about where it should be. But it's criminal that you have Lines in the Sand so low. Lines in the Sand in particular has an excellent climax, one of DT's best. The "Centers our perspective" and "mysteries we nurture" guitar parts in the last verse are orgasmic. So it is strange that you would say it doesn't.

What? I included LITS in the group that should be higher. It's a Top 5 song for me as well, I love every second of it. I just love TOT more.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 19, 2013, 09:12:54 PM: Sorry Scorp. was referring to OP. should have made that clearer.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Destiny Of Chaos on June 23, 2013, 09:03:28 AM: Please try to finish this by July 4th. If you are busy and would like to put it on hold so that someone else can start their list, please let me know.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 24, 2013, 12:46:15 AM: Quote from: Destiny Of Chaos on June 23, 2013, 09:03:28 AM
Please try to finish this by July 4th. If you are busy and would like to put it on hold so that someone else can start their list, please let me know.

Was just on vacation. Back now; will make sure to finish in time.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 24, 2013, 02:12:21 AM: #31.) Finally Free

This song gets knocked down a bit by the SFAM plot getting a bit too overt, so it always unsettles me a bit with that. It's probably a Top 20 song otherwise, because it really is gorgeous. The main chord progression is tremendous, and the vocal melodies rank among DT's best, very well performed by James. And it's got the awesome live drum solo ending from LSFNY, which is really the definitive version of the song for me--one of maybe half a dozen DT songs whose definitive version is a live one (well, maybe a bit more when you consider the WDADU stuff redone with in-his-prime James).

Definitely a song with a lot of great stuff, but not a fan of all the plot sound effects and what not. Not really a big fan of the SFAM plot in general, especially that part. Musically fantastic though. On some days I'd probably push this higher.

#30.) The Root of All Evil

The second-best song in the 12SS, and the most compact of the bunch. While the other trio of metal songs in the suite show clear masterwork ambition, The Root of All Evil is more of just an energetic mid-tier DT song. It's got some cool riffing, Mike's drums give the song a lot of space to breathe, and James does a nice job balancing aggression with melodicism to fit the different parts of the song. The ending is also really beautiful and satisfying--I love when Jordan goes to the piano. This is definitely a song that starts strong and ends stronger.

This song loses some points in the middle, though. Jordan's keyboard break has always struck me as very out of place. The best word I can describe it as--both in terms of the actual notes and the tone--is "bubbly" which contrasts with the energy, aggression, and beauty of the rest of the song. JP's solo is okay, but it comes off a bit scattershot, and it might be the worst-mixed JP solo since When Dream And Day Unite, as the lower runs are barely audible. Collectively, it's a short enough section to not detract too much, and the song regains momentum at the end, but those elements do make it more of an above-average DT song than a classic (I'd say the "classics" start around 25 on my list, for what it's worth).

#29.) Anna Lee

Depending who you ask, Anna Lee is either one of DT's worst songs or one of DT's most underrated songs. You can count me in the latter category. This was really the one song from FII that I always really liked from the first time I heard it (though it is not the highest on this list due to the soaring of another track from the album).

Superficially, it might come off as another fairly short, fairly (well, loosely) poppy song from an album that had too many of them. But while Hollow Years always felt misguided and Burning My Soul and You Not Me always felt (and, if you believe Mike, quite palpably were) creatively stifled, Anna Lee has a very easy, authentic feel to it, even though it doesn't really sound like anything the band has done before or since (perhaps Wither is somewhat comparable, though that song feels like a more calculated interlude than Anna Lee due to the number/length of tracks on their respective albums).

Rather than fighting James' post-accident limitations, the song really plays to the strengths he retained, and it really centers on the beautiful melodies and chord progressions. Nice lyrics, too, which isn't the sort of thing I normally notice, but stands out here. JP's solo is tasteful and continues to push the song forward, as it builds momentum throughout. Derek, Mike, and JM also turn in really nice performances without doing anything especially flashy. Ultimately, the song "is what it is" and lacks the grandiose bombast that can make DT so unparalleled when it clicks, but it sure is a fantastic piece of music in its own right. Stuff like this is what makes DT so great--each of their songs can adopt a remarkably different character from not only the album that surrounds it, but the entire DT catalog, and yet still fit with the band's sound and vision.

#28.) A Nightmare To Remember

Here comes the first of two straight quite controversial explanations. Unlike the one that will follow, A Nightmare To Remember is viewed as a pretty solid song here on DTF, with most finding the middle section before the solos to be its climax, taking issue with Mike's growling solo, and finding everything else to be fairly standard-issue solid DT.

I'll agree that--and mind you, the following is just how the song strikes me, not intended as some invalidation of the way it strikes others--a lot of it is fairly middle-of-the-road modern DT writing. In fact, you can draw some parallels with The Root of All Evil, which ranks just below it on my list--the song opens its album, starting with sound effects of some sort before bursting into a big riff with a lot of energy and going from there. I think ANTR gets off to a bit of a better start than TROAE does--the riff is a bit more compelling, James is a bit edgier, Mike seems more energized, and then JP can't even wait a full verse before he unleashes a quick facemelting solo. Another verse continues to build the energy into a huge downshift into the chorus, which features my favorite John Petrucci backing vocals ever.

Then another cool riff enters, and we get another awesome verse that downshifts into a totally different, but nearly just as epic chorus with a really propulsive chord progression.

And then it all stops.

I guess, for a lot of people, this is the point where generic metal gives way to beautiful melodicism. For me, this is the point where intricate and explosive metal gives way to humdrum melodicism. It's not that I don't appreciate the softer side of DT at times--just check the song that preceded this one--but the "Beautiful Agony" section just doesn't do it for me. Neither James nor John are doing anything that grabs me, and I actually find myself just listening almost solely to the drums and keyboards in this section. Something about John's backing vocals in the section also has always sounded a bit off. It's not that it's overtly bad music or anything; I just find it to be very tedious. The melodies just don't quite click in my head, I guess.

Anyway, we then get tradeoff solos, and this is one of the few songs where I think Jordan outduels JP--John's solos are very flurry-of-notes, while Jordan manages to get some interesting patterns into a still-quite-technical first solo and absolutely slays with the continuum in the second. Jordan's solos also reveal a really excellent, propulsive guitar riff beneath them, which I think is the single most underrated thing in the song. The following lead melody/unison/buildup section is also a truly gorgeous, epic moment that regains the momentum of the song.

And then Mike growls.

You know, I get how he felt. I think his voice itself actually fits okay, and I've never been one to really fret about Mike's vocal contributions in general. The problem for me is that of all the lyrics in DT's canon, I can't think of many that are less suited to being delivered in such a fashion, which creates a lot of cognitive dissonance--dissonance that can be overlooked if you just don't think and enjoy the intensity, but also can be dwelled on if you take issue with the idea of growling in the first place. I waffle back and forth on it.

The instrumental riff section after that is nothing that adds or subtracts all that much, and then there's a final reprise of the first style of chorus (with great JP backing vox!) and the awesome keyboard lead melody outro that's mildly but not excessively disturbed by some rather poorly-executed blastbeats.

So that's my play-by-play assessment of the song. Basically, 2/3 of it is what TROAE aspired to be, and the other 1/3 doesn't really work for me, so it ends up only slightly ahead of TROAE on the list.

Wow, that's long. Sorry for the tl;dr style--but prepare for a long discussion of #27 as well.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on June 24, 2013, 02:28:38 AM: All great songs.
While I don't agree with your opinion of the mid-section, I'm glad to see you appreciate the song for the strength of the heavy parts before it, which are among DT's best heavy material. :tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 24, 2013, 02:41:24 AM: Quote from: BlobVanDam on June 24, 2013, 02:28:38 AM
All great songs.
While I don't agree with your opinion of the mid-section, I'm glad to see you appreciate the song for the strength of the heavy parts before it, which are among DT's best heavy material. :tup

Agreed. And as for the middle--it's like I always say with DT parts I dislike: I'm glad it reaches other people. The band is so diverse that they're bound to miss the specific tastes of an individual here and there, and that diversity (as I said in the Anna Lee writeup) is what makes them so unique and great to me, so I hardly lose sleep over the occasional section or song that doesn't really do anything for me. There are songs (like the very next one on the list) that do a lot for me and little for many others, too. It happens.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on June 24, 2013, 12:30:00 PM: I can't say I really agree with the overall placement of these songs on your list, but... these writeups are fabulous! They show a lot of thought went into them, and they are very entertaining to read.

Count me among the people who love the beautiful agony section of ANTR. I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone, I just think it works great in the song and is one of their career creative highlights.

Finally Free is about where I'd put it.

Because Anna Lee is a slower song the chord progressions really do get emphasized more, you're right about that.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: DebraKadabra on June 25, 2013, 07:52:39 PM: Can't say that I agree about the placement of Anna Lee. The others are :metal though.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 28, 2013, 01:55:44 AM: Haven't forgotten about this; I will have several more up later today.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 28, 2013, 08:54:23 PM: Alright, this might be the most controversial selection on the whole list. Here goes...

#27.) Build Me Up, Break Me Down

Build Me Up, Break Me Down is my favorite song on A Dramatic Turn of Events.

There, I said it.

Let’s pull out the ol’ I&W/ADTOE comparison here.

On The Backs of Angels -> Pull Me Under
Build Me Up, Break Me Down -> Surrounded
Lost Not Forgotten -> Take The Time
This Is The Life -> Another Day
Bridges In The Sky -> Metropolis
Outcry -> Under A Glass Moon
Far From Heaven -> Wait For Sleep
Breaking All Illusions -> Learning To Live

Now, I think the comparisons between the two albums, in terms of “ADTOE rips off I&W!!!” are overstated by some. There is little doubt, however, that the albums have largely parallel feels and structures. These are most overt in OTBOA and FFH/BAI; then, TITL and Another Day are both “non-acoustic building ballads” and LNF, BITS, and Outcry are all “fairly long proggy songs” much like TTT, Metropolis, and UAGM. It shouldn’t really affect anyone’s enjoyment of the album that there are a couple of strong similarities and some weaker ones, but one result of the approach DT took is that the album is excessively safe for my tastes. It seems very self-conscious, like they really aimed the songs instead of just letting things come naturally.

However, there’s one big break from that. Build Me Up, Break Me Down and Surrounded have nothing in common, except that they’re relatively concise songs. As a result, I always find Build Me Up, Break Me Down to be the freshest-sounding song on the album.

Not only does the song break from I&W sound, it veers into alt-metal territory DT never really has explored. A lot of the song sounds like something Disturbed would write. And the weird thing is, I don’t really like Disturbed, and I love I&W, and yet this is the song I like the most.

More specifically, it’s the one heavy song on the album that really locks into a groove. I feel like JP struggled to come up with memorable riffs for a lot of the album, and the flat production didn’t assist in that department. For whatever reason, though, here things coalesce, a lot like they do in The Root of All Evil (the riff is a similar style). The song’s pretty well-arranged, with James getting a lot of room, JR providing tasteful backing, and a nice unison solo. Mangini’s drums also seem to cut through the mix a bit better in this one than others.

Also, I’m a huge fan of James’ high vocals, and it was awesome to hear him do that on record for the first time in years. Really, those gritty high screams, while they’ve been a tour staple, have largely eluded DT records aside from the live CD and DVD from the Images tour. It was cool to hear them captured here, and that provides some welcome dynamism in a record with very safe (though well-executed vocals).

It’s not the grandest artistic statement DT’s ever made, but in some ways, it's actually the boldest statement on ADTOE. Because of that context, I find myself enjoying BMUBMD more than the rest of the album. I don't even really think it's necessarily the "best" song, but it jumps out as a fun and interesting experiment among a lot of solid but safe and unspectacular material.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on June 28, 2013, 08:55:57 PM: I like BMUBMD too, but prepare for :rage:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on June 28, 2013, 09:03:40 PM: Interesting.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on June 28, 2013, 09:33:56 PM: Okay, less controversial stuff.

#26.) Scarred

I like this one a lot. James is in such great form on Awake's more aggressive numbers, turning solid vocal lines into riveting ones. A lot of this song is like The Mirror, getting by on sheer aggression, tension, and atmosphere. Unlike The Mirror, though, it's an expansive epic with a lot of dynamism--there is tension, but it ebbs and flows, builds and releases.

Also, the song has some cool instrumental fireworks toward the end from both JP and Kevin, and even JM comes to the forefront with his tapping riff at the beginning of the song.

Some sections are less compelling than others, and the song does feel a bit stitched-together at times, but there's a lot of really great stuff here.

#25.) Under A Glass Moon

This was the first DT song I ever heard...which really means nothing; I just felt like mentioning it. It's not really one of the highlights of Images And Words, but then again, that album is less full of "highlights" than just start-to-finish greatness. Again, James is fantastic, though in a much cleaner, higher fashion than the Awake stuff, but his voice here lends a nice, light quality that dovetails well with the '80s-style production (which I love).

JP's guitar solo is overrated, but it's still a pretty nice one, and Kevin adds a cool solo as well. As with all of I&W, while the song is progressive and takes some unexpected turns, everything is compelling from beginning to end. Definitely a cool song, and it served as a neat introduction to the band.

#24.) Surrounded

I never really liked this one all that much until fairly recently--it always came off as a bit boring. When I discovered DT, I was so locked into metal that I assumed anything that downshifted from metallic textures wouldn't meet my approval. In the intervening seven years (wow, I can't believe it's been so long!), though, I've come to appreciate a wider range of feels, though I still am mostly a metal guy.

And so it's now quite possible for me to appreciate the beauty of Surrounded. It's a very James-centric song, as the instrumentation from all members is quite restrained, but the vocal melodies are quite challenging. He executes them with precision and flair, as is the case with his work on the entire album. The lack of a chorus makes this song progress in a very linear fashion, which I don't necessarily like a lot of the time, but works well here.

#23.) Take The Time

Like I said, Images and Words is such a uniformly great album that it's really tough for me to separate the songs from each other. You could flip these three in any order. Take The Time is certainly one of DT's catchiest songs, it's got more awesome vocals from James, great rhythm section work, and a lot of cool instrumentation with compelling riffing, leads and solos from KM, and the outro solo from JP which is always a great live moment. In fact, the cutting of the solo on the album version is kind of disappointing if you know how great the live solo is. The Live In Tokyo version of the song really exemplifies early DT--awesome, compelling, and over-the-top work from all five members of the band that coalesces into a surprisingly accessible and well-formed whole.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on June 29, 2013, 12:29:28 AM: Those 4... :hefdaddy
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on July 01, 2013, 04:28:54 AM: Entering the homestretch!

#22.) Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Not an easy one to rank, just because there's so much here. I do enjoy the 42-minute epic quite a bit, but ultimately, it just doesn't measure up to DT's other mega-epics for me. Part of it is the lack of continuity. Part of it is the fact that, because every section is basically a song, any section that doesn't quite measure up gets drawn out for 5+ minutes.

Most importantly for me, though, the issue is that the last three movements/songs/pieces/whatever you want to call them are worse than the four that precede them. I don't care much for the overture, but the song does build steadily after that, with About To Crash opening on a fairly mundane if solid note, War Inside My Head and The Test That Stumped Them All pushing the band into an energetic metallic frenzy, and Goodnight Kiss offering some of John Petrucci's most poignant guitar work ever.

After that, the retreat to the lush acoustics of Solitary Shell just seems a bit flat, especially since we're now well past the twenty-minute mark. At that point, my attention span begins to dwindle unless I'm hit with something compelling, but Solitary Shell, while pleasant, doesn't really provide that. Then we get About To Crash (Reprise), which, well, reprises About To Crash in maybe a slightly more epic fashion, but not enough to really bring the song back to big life. The ending thus strikes me as a bit hollow.

Overall, it's obviously an impressive accomplishment, and the ATC-GK bit is fantastic. But it's a long, sprawling piece, and thus maintaining momentum is a huge challenge, one that the band probably didn't manage quite as well as they could have. That takes this song from being a potential pinnacle to being a mere interesting, oft-compelling experiment.

#21.) Beyond This Life

Hmm...how to approach this one? Beyond This Life is kind of weird. Obviously, the lyrics are from a different perspective than you usually hear in DT songs (or much of any songs, really). James does what he can with them, but SFAM doesn't capture him at his best in general, and the lyrical structure is probably one of the worst since When Dream And Day Unite, further marring his capabilities. The middle instrumental section is clogged up with all the Zappa stuff, which I'm personally not a fan of.

What makes this song worthy of this spot, then? A few things. While there are a lot of quirky, questionable elements, the song never quite veers over the Outcry edge and collapses under its own weight. Nothing's bad, just sometimes slightly off or a bit weird, and most of the questionable bits are followed with good stuff.

What good stuff, exactly? The light chorus, for one, which totally turns the song on its head and makes great use of both James' and John's voices. Second, the groovy keyboard solo from Jordan, the sort of work I wish he'd do more often. Third, the unison to end the instrumental section, which is just gorgeous. While John's solo is not as good as Jordan's (a rarity, in my book), he is on with his riffs for much of the song, continually injecting energy when the other members aren't quite up to snuff.

Finally, the song gets bonus points for the awesome Jordan/Mike Live At Budokan jam.

#20.) As I Am

I mentioned before with Endless Sacrifice that Train of Thought was the first DT album I got heavily involved with. It hasn't aged all that well as an album, but surprisingly, I find this song aged better than most. Why? Well, ToT at its core is all about dark, metallic bombast, which is great if you share my tastes, but can also get tiring if it misfires. Over longer song structures, the uniform crunching gets tiresome--there's only so many ways to rehash chugging rhythms, after all.

As I Am is, of course, a fairly simple song. Extended, building intro, verse, prechorus, chorus, break, verse, prechorus, chorus, break, guitar solo, drum solo, chorus, outro. But the aggression is pretty convincing on the track, JP's solo is among his best shred work, it's always cool to hear a drum solo, and there's nothing that misfires. For a pure metallic rush, it's hard to ask for more than this--compelling riffs, solos, and hooks that don't let up for seven minutes.

#19.) Afterlife

Another short one. With When Dream And Day Unite, I try to look at what the songs should be, rather than what they actually were on the album. Of course, this can be determined by listening to live versions.

I will say this for the studio version, though--it does show that Charlie Dominici was not the fish-out-of-water singer that the vast majority of the album made him out to be. He wrote his own lyrics here and contributed to those on Status Seeker, and those are the only two songs that seem to have reasonable phrasing that allows him to hold a note for more than a tenth of a second ("I am the Killing haaaaaand" excluded). Really, it's the only song on the actual album I find is more than a mere novelty.

The live versions, though, show what a monster this truly is. You can take either James' I&W tour performances, where he injects F#s and all, or the magnificent Score performance with the brilliant final chorus.

The song is short, but feels longer, with extra verses and twists and turns. And there are so many classic elements in this song. I can't think of many DT choruses backed by better riffs. JP's solo here is every bit as good as the one in Under A Glass Moon; even the first solo in the song is a big momentum-builder. And the chorus, when given its proper due by James (and even somewhat with Charlie) has a big hook that ties it all together.

#18.) The Count of Tuscany

File this with SDOIT in the "slightly disappointing but still fantastic" DT epics category. So much good stuff. The intro is tremendous, there are cool riffs everywhere, the chorus is huge (with a big assist from Mike's gritty backing vocals, of all things). Jordan manages to be fairly technical while always staying tasteful and interesting throughout the song. The acoustic section is nice, and it does build to a fairly cool ending.

Nowhere in the song do we get the big release, though. The chorus does it, I guess, but it's so fleeting and doesn't reprise anywhere near the end of the song, so it doesn't really serve as a climax except when you analyze the song in retrospect. The long, atmospheric guitar section is nice, but the song doesn't really recover from its interrupting of momentum fully, even though the parts after it are undeniably beautiful and well-executed. The song may have actually benefited if it was extended a bit more to build to an even more impressive finale, because it doesn't quite fully deliver on its considerable promise the way it's arranged.

Great performance by James, by the way. Really foreshadowed the ADTOE/tour improvements.

#17.) Fatal Tragedy

Like As I Am, a medium-length DT song that excels through some exceptional instrumental performances. It's best-known for that, anyway, but it should be noted that the first two minutes of the song are absolutely sensational. James' vocals are spot-on, the band entering is searing, and the verse that follows has to be one of the five catchiest verses in DT history. The short breaks (the choir section, the organ/guitar tradeoff) are also awesome and energetic. And then, finally, John and Jordan end the song in one of the most compelling tradeoff sections DT ever did. The chorus is a bit of a letdown because it isn't really catchier than the verses, but beyond that, this song manages to be fun, atmospheric, engaging, and technical while advancing the SFAM storyline. That's a hell of an accomplishment.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on July 01, 2013, 04:33:14 AM: Afterlife, TCOT and Fatal Tragedy are great :)
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on July 01, 2013, 05:02:13 AM: Afterlife and TCOT are great, don't care that much about the others.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on July 01, 2013, 01:25:49 PM: It's funny that you have Fatal Tragedy and Beyond This Life ranked so closely. I think I will always think of them together, I don't know why but they seem so similar to me. I think they're ranked about right.

But SDOIT outside the top 20???? I'm sorry you don't get out of it what I do. I think Solitary Shell works great in context, and on its own is thoroughly enjoyable and somewhat unique within DT's work. Not just gimmicky smooth jazz good, but genuinely good. Other than the overture that takes a while to pick up steam, I don't find any faults in it, it is just a 42 minute roller coaster ride with no skippable parts and a perfect ending. I agree I probably think the second half of ATC through Test is probably the high point, but having a high point is just the nature of extended compositions. Considering how good the whole thing is, I think it is amazing they actually pulled off a satisfying ending to it all, but they did.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 01, 2013, 03:40:00 PM: See, I'm in the same boat as TPOF. I enjoy every part of SDOIT, except for the Overture and Losing Time, but due to their vastly different moods and the lack of transitions in most cases, I find it very hard to listen to it in one sitting. I prefer listening to parts of the song - aside from WIMH/TTTSTA, which belong together, they all work as standalone pieces very well, even better than in the context of Six Degrees (the song).
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 01, 2013, 03:42:34 PM: Hmm, it seems our tastes have finally diverged. I pretty much always listen to Six Degrees in full. I usually listen to the Score version though.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 01, 2013, 03:48:45 PM: I feel like I should be outraged and post something semi-witty about us no longer being friends or something, but I guess you're still okay.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 01, 2013, 03:52:13 PM: Also, The Dark Eternal Night is Dream Theater's best song.

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on July 02, 2013, 12:43:37 AM: #16.) Metropolis

A classic example of how DT could make the long, complex instrumental sections work effortlessly in the old days. There's so many compelling riffs, leads, solos, and unisons. We even get to see Mike and JM take solos here, which is always a treat for me. And James' vocals on the LATM version really elevate the song as well--I'm a sucker for a good F#.

So it's great. I don't see exactly why it's occupied such a hallowed space in the DT catalog--it doesn't strike me as too far above most of the rest of the album, and the fact that the instrumental section basically takes up half the song does interrupt the flow a bit. It's great, but not quite as legendary as some make it out to be compared to DT's other big high points.

#15.) The Spirit Carries On

As with Metropolis, this song is certainly one of DT's more famous, as they seemingly trot it out endlessly in live settings. It becomes tricky to rate such songs, as one has to decide if the song is overrated, so overrated it's underrated, or something else entirely. I'm putting it here.

This is another song that gets a boost from live renditions, where it transforms from being an excellent ballad to being a really huge experience. It's so well-put-together melodically, Mike's drumming is spectacular, and the whole thing just ignites live when James is on. Jordan's piano work is fantastic as usual, and JP's solo is great, even if the flurry of notes at the end always felt a bit forced and gratuitous.

#14.) Peruvian Skies

This is the song that really got me to reevaluate Falling Into Infinity. And what a song it is. Like Afterlife, it packs a lot into a fairly constrained format, but what makes it especially interesting is the two halves of the song--light and heavy--and how well they interact with each other. Most notably, the sudden realization of how great the intro riff works as a Metallica riff is just immense. James does a great job conveying the emotions of the song while still having, to use MP's term, "balls." John's solo coming out of the bridge is great, and it starts off one of the best riff-heavy instrumental sections the band has ever put together. This is yet another song that slays live--just look at the High Voltage clip for proof, complete with the requisite A5 in the final chorus.

#13.) Pull Me Under

So overrated it's underrated. Pull Me Under holds up just a tad better than Metropolis, Under A Glass Moon, Surrounded, and Take The Time. The reason why, I think, is because it's so vocal-heavy, giving the arrangement a sense of dynamism that really makes DT's music so transcendent when it clicks. It is a bit of a simmerer rather than an exploder, and I'm not a fan of the sudden cutoff at the end, but it really is a neat encapsulation of everything DT is about, even if it seems like an odd choice to have been the one song that actually made a commercial dent.

#12.) Voices

The best song on Awake, largely thanks to another intricate arrangement that weaves instrumentals in and out rather than just clustering them. Compared to the rest of the album, James doesn't quite deliver here, but the rest of the band picks up the slack. JP and Mike especially stand out, with Mike keeping the drums especially inventive and John delivering one of his best and most unique solos, as well as some great riffs in a variety of different styles.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on July 02, 2013, 12:44:41 AM: Surprising to see Peruvian Skies so high, but it's a good song and the rest are great, except TSCO.
Quote from: nicmos on July 01, 2013, 01:25:49 PM
But SDOIT outside the top 20????
I don't have it in my top 60 :biggrin:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on July 02, 2013, 02:21:02 AM: TPOF, now we're talking! :metal
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on July 02, 2013, 09:01:57 AM: Spirit Carries On is overrated. you got that right. Other than that, some good comments on these tracks. I could see putting Metropolis higher as I've learned to love it more over the years, but it's probably not above 8th or 9th in my book. Peruvian Skies is the opposite, I've like it less as the years have gone by. The ending instrumental section is great, but the beginning of the song leading up to that just drags way too much and I have a thing against rock songs with slow tempos. The word "plod" comes to mind.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on July 02, 2013, 02:37:09 PM: #11.) Another Day

My favorite DT short song. This is one of the few time where my love of '80s hair metal really betrays itself when it comes to DT's music. First off, this is the singular most difficult DT vocal song, and James executes it beautifully on the album version. The triggered pulse of MP's drums seems more appropriate here than on most of the rest of the album. Kevin, JM, and JP all are quite tasteful throughout, and JP's solo is righty often hailed as one of his most underrated, adding a classic '80s feel while still feeling like a JP solo. It's also a very unique song in the DT catalog, which makes its tremendous execution stand out.

#10.) The Glass Prison

After all these years, I still get chills at the beginning of this song. There's still something special about it--DT's first foray into the modern metallic terrain that would characterize a lot of their later work--with the ideas sounding very fresh and inspired. JP's riffs, solos, and leads are all over this song, as are Mike's furious double-bass gallops. James and Jordan seem to be still trying to acclimate themselves to the style, something which was an ongoing struggle in DT's mid-career period, but the song's epic metallic scope and inspired guitar, drums, and arrangement make it a classic nonetheless.

#9.) Home

Another absolute classic that announces its presence with perhaps the best riff in Dream Theater history. DT's music coalesces so tremendously when JP's riffing is on; it's really a huge difference-maker. James steps up and delivers one of his best post-accident album performances, notably one of DT's catchiest choruses. Of course, JP's solo is a huge moment as well. I've never cared much for the outro, but this song stands as a monolithic masterpiece even with its removal.

#8.) Octavarium

Now we get to the point where the song start to be really close together. I don't have a runaway #1 song or a runaway top 5; the division line is right here, where I could rank my top 8 in almost any order. Yes, I'd be fairly comfortable with Octavarium as my #1 choice.

But it ends up here. Why? Well, first, let's look at why it's so great. The last two movements of the song are absolutely huge, which provides such a fitting cap to a 24-minute journey and really makes everything before even better in retrospect.

The reason why it ultimately falls to #8 is that the preceding three movements--particularly "Medicate" and "Full Circle" are a bit humdrum. Not bad by any stretch, but there's little hint of the extraordinary payoff for much of the song. In some ways, that functions to make the ending all that more satisfying, but it does make the song a slight chore at times if you're looking for something with a bit more energy.

#7.) The Best of Times

Here's one that's nowhere near Octavarium on most people's lists, but is right next to it on mine. Surprisingly, it's for basically the same reason.

John Petrucci's guitar solo in the song is not just my favorite JP solo--it's my favorite guitar solo in general. Specifically, the way it interweaves the song's majestic musical motifs with an ever-building sense of techicality and virtuosity is the pinnacle of what progressive metal guitar soloing is all about. It's a huge moment of release. I've talked about momentum a lot with this top 50, and this song ends with some of the most explosive momentum in the band's history.

Do the parts before the solo measure up? I don't think this is more than a back-end Top 50 song without the solo, so in a sense, not really. But the repetition of the main motif sets up the solo brillantly, and the song is just half as long as Octavarium, so there isn't as much time to wait around for the big moment to kick in. Further, while much of the song is fairly plodding and merely nice, nothing is bad or disruptive, with a lot of pleasant, affected melodies, a nice string break from Jordan, and generally tasteful contributions from all the members. If you know that such a transcendent solo is coming, it really makes the rest of the song a lot more exciting, too.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 02, 2013, 04:29:44 PM: While I agree that Intervals is an amazing climax in Octavarium, Razor's Edge just feels needlessly tacked on after that. And while I agree with what you write on The Best of Times (though I don't worship that solo QUITE as much, though it is very, very good), I would never have a song where I find large parts of it tiresome to listen to this high on my list - which is the reason that I left Octavarium off completely, incidentely.

Though I am happy that Octavarium's out of the way. It does not, under no circumstances, ever deserve the top spot in any list.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 02, 2013, 04:34:38 PM: Quote from: Scorpion on July 02, 2013, 04:29:44 PM
While I agree that Intervals is an amazing climax in Octavarium, Razor's Edge just feels needlessly tacked on after that. And while I agree with what you write on The Best of Times (though I don't worship that solo QUITE as much, though it is very, very good), I would never have a song where I find large parts of it tiresome to listen to this high on my list - which is the reason that I left Octavarium off completely, incidentely.

Though I am happy that Octavarium's out of the way. It does not, under no circumstances, ever deserve the top spot in any list.

\o

I really love Octavarium, but I'd love it more if it ended after LaBrie screams that last "OC-TA-VA-RI-UM!".
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 02, 2013, 04:37:03 PM: I'll admit, after I saw that you had posted, I was thinking that this might be the second thing that we disagree about, but everything is right in the world again.

(https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpl7hc2x6I1qg6scw.png)
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 02, 2013, 08:03:32 PM: Quote from: Scorpion on July 02, 2013, 04:29:44 PM
While I agree that Intervals is an amazing climax in Octavarium, Razor's Edge just feels needlessly tacked on after that. And while I agree with what you write on The Best of Times (though I don't worship that solo QUITE as much, though it is very, very good), I would never have a song where I find large parts of it tiresome to listen to this high on my list - which is the reason that I left Octavarium off completely, incidentely.

Though I am happy that Octavarium's out of the way. It does not, under no circumstances, ever deserve the top spot in any list.

You be trolling.

Octavarium deserves its spot here.

But please tell me ACOS is out of the way. Now that's a hugely overrated song that doesn't deserve any top spot. ;)
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 02, 2013, 08:08:38 PM: Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 02, 2013, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: Scorpion on July 02, 2013, 04:29:44 PM
While I agree that Intervals is an amazing climax in Octavarium, Razor's Edge just feels needlessly tacked on after that. And while I agree with what you write on The Best of Times (though I don't worship that solo QUITE as much, though it is very, very good), I would never have a song where I find large parts of it tiresome to listen to this high on my list - which is the reason that I left Octavarium off completely, incidentely.

Though I am happy that Octavarium's out of the way. It does not, under no circumstances, ever deserve the top spot in any list.

You be trolling.

Octavarium deserves its spot here.

But please tell me ACOS is out of the way. Now that's a hugely overrated song that doesn't deserve any top spot. ;)

And so the battle between Blob and Scorpion (8VM vs. ACOS) rages on!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on July 02, 2013, 08:30:25 PM: count me on Team Blob here...
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucidity on July 02, 2013, 10:17:10 PM: Quote from: Scorpion on July 01, 2013, 03:40:00 PM
See, I'm in the same boat as TPOF. I enjoy every part of SDOIT, except for the Overture and Losing Time, but due to their vastly different moods and the lack of transitions in most cases, I find it very hard to listen to it in one sitting. I prefer listening to parts of the song - aside from WIMH/TTTSTA, which belong together, they all work as standalone pieces very well, even better than in the context of Six Degrees (the song).

I completely agree with this. I hate it when people talk about Six Degrees like it's one song. It's not. It's fine to listen to in one sitting, but each part is its own song, and I think of them as individual DT songs. And they generally work better on their own than with their transitions, save for WIMH.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 12:46:31 AM: Quote from: Lucidity on July 02, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Quote from: Scorpion on July 01, 2013, 03:40:00 PM
See, I'm in the same boat as TPOF. I enjoy every part of SDOIT, except for the Overture and Losing Time, but due to their vastly different moods and the lack of transitions in most cases, I find it very hard to listen to it in one sitting. I prefer listening to parts of the song - aside from WIMH/TTTSTA, which belong together, they all work as standalone pieces very well, even better than in the context of Six Degrees (the song).

I completely agree with this. I hate it when people talk about Six Degrees like it's one song. It's not. It's fine to listen to in one sitting, but each part is its own song, and I think of them as individual DT songs. And they generally work better on their own than with their transitions, save for WIMH.

It is, whether you think it works as one or not. It is a song. Personally, I have never once listened to it in sections, only as a whole (and it's my #1 or #2 DT song, so that's a lot).
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 03, 2013, 01:04:24 AM: Lo and behold, I actually agree with Blob. It's a song, and that's that - if the band calls it that way, that's good enough for me. The fact that I don't listen to it that way very often (though I have been listening to the whole thing more and more in recent times and even Losing Time is slowly growing on me) doesn't change that.

With regards to Octavarium: I actually listened to it again yesterday and it's not THAT bad. It's still the most overrated track that DT have ever recorded and not deserving of a very high spot on a list, in my opinion., but there are some sections that I legitimately love. It's just... I think you said something similar about Scarred a while ago: if the whole fanbase absolutely goes nuts over it, it becomes far harder to remain indifferent towards a song and it slips into outright dislike quite often.

So yeah. I don't hate Octavarium, even though it does seem like that on occasion.

Though ACOS is still superior in musics and lyrics.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 01:22:52 AM: Quote from: Scorpion on July 03, 2013, 01:04:24 AM
With regards to Octavarium: I actually listened to it again yesterday and it's not THAT bad. It's still the most overrated track that DT have ever recorded and not deserving of a very high spot on a list, in my opinion., but there are some sections that I legitimately love. It's just... I think you said something similar about Scarred a while ago: if the whole fanbase absolutely goes nuts over it, it becomes far harder to remain indifferent towards a song and it slips into outright dislike quite often.

I doubt I ever said that about Scarred, since I'd have an equally negative reaction to that one regardless. :lol
I may have said that for one of the other DT songs I think are hugely overrated, probably LTL, which while it wouldn't make my top 50, I don't dislike anywhere near as much as the impression I may give when everyone's gushing over it.

And concerning ACOS vs 8V, I'll give you lyrics, but musically, Octavarium slays it by so much there's no comparison imo.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 03, 2013, 01:29:42 AM: Yeah, or that. Anyway, I know that you said something about some song like that (woohoo specific!).

Anyway, I still like you, I mean, you like Steel Panther, that counts for something. :P
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Zydar on July 03, 2013, 02:30:45 AM: Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 01:22:52 AM
And concerning ACOS vs 8V, I'll give you lyrics, but musically, Octavarium slays it by so much there's no comparison imo.

(https://i.imgur.com/3ugMF.gif)
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 02:42:25 AM: Quote from: Scorpion on July 03, 2013, 01:29:42 AM
Yeah, or that. Anyway, I know that you said something about some song like that (woohoo specific!).

Anyway, I still like you, I mean, you like Steel Panther, that counts for something. :P

Usually around here that doesn't count for anything, so you're alright. :hat
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Full Speed on July 03, 2013, 07:46:56 AM: When it comes to DTs longer 20+ min epics, ACOS is the only one that would be near the top of my list. 8VM and 6DOIT both have parts that I really like, but as a whole I don't really like either very much. Now ACOS would be in my top 10 for sure.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 08:07:34 AM: I can listen to Octavarium, and it feels like 5 minutes before the song is over.

ACOS still feels like 23 minutes. It's a chore for me to sit through. :\
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on July 03, 2013, 08:33:14 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 08:07:34 AM
ACOS still feels like 23 minutes. It's a chore for me to sit through. :\

Yep, pretty much. I gave up my ACOS CD a long long time ago (in a previous century to be exact), and every once in a while I will listen to it online to see if I missed something compelling and to see if I change my mind. But it never happens. I'm fine not owning it.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 08:48:33 AM: The only part of ACOS that I actually like is the guitar part at 8:46.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucidity on July 03, 2013, 11:16:51 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 08:07:34 AM
I can listen to Octavarium, and it feels like 5 minutes before the song is over.

ACOS still feels like 23 minutes. It's a chore for me to sit through. :\

Agreed.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Dream Team on July 03, 2013, 11:17:59 AM: I'm not going to bother to partake in the crazy ACOS vs OV argument, but am posting to say :tup for representing The Best of Times. In general, I appreciate songs that convey/try to convey genuine emotion over dissertations about vampires and freemasons. Kudos to MP for the raw emotion of this song, though of course there are some issues with the delivery (IMO James is flat and lifeless in the verses). With a couple of slight improvements, this could have been recognized more widely as an all-time DT classic. And yes, that solo is the bomb.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucidity on July 03, 2013, 12:10:17 PM: Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 01:22:52 AM
And concerning ACOS vs 8V, I'll give you lyrics, but musically, Octavarium slays it by so much there's no comparison imo.

Agreed completely. When I start Octavarium it feels like I'm starting a magical journey. Thoroughly entertaining all the way through. ACoS is a fantastic song, that's certain, but it isn't nearly as cohesive, dynamic, and beautiful as Octavarium in my opinion.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on July 03, 2013, 08:20:35 PM: #6.) A Change of Seasons

Well, it seems everybody's talking about this one in the thread already, which leads in nicely to this ranking. Yes, it comes in two spots ahead of Octavarium, though as stated earlier, I could really put songs 1-8 in any order and feel it's a satisfying reflection of my opinions.

ACoS represents a bit of a moving target to evaluate for me, because I'm a big fan of both the Kevin Moore-era version and, ironically, the Jordan Rudess-era version. That's nothing against Derek Sherinian or his specific parts, but I do feel that the signature versions of this song are the live KM one and the one on Live Scenes From New York; they both explode with an energy that's missing in the studio version.

The KM-era song has more impressive, over-the-top instrumentation, and a huge, satisfying ending (my goodness, those James F#s!), while the later version's ending seems like more of a letdown in comparison. However, the later reworkings do provide the huge climax of the song in "Another World" and also improve the lyrics. If we ever saw a version that combined the strengths of both, this would probably be my favorite DT song. As it stands, though, the "main" version of the song doesn't quite land on the huge, satisfying epic note that I'd like it to (it doesn't help that James' vocals toward the end seem quite pitchy), which makes it somewhat less climactic than Octavarium. It is the more consistently interesting song musically, though, so ultimately it just barely wins out.

#5.) The Ministry of Lost Souls

Yeah, a lot of people hate this song. Yeah, the instrumental section doesn't really get off to a good start, sliding into chugging near-thrash riffs for no apparent reason and then appending jarring, silly organ leads. It's not perfect.

But I absolutely love it. The vocal sections are majestic, playing off a really interesting chord progression that JP and JR both frame well. The guitar lead that serves as a break and then an outro is one of the most understated and yet titanic things in DT history. If you take out the instrumental section, the song is a startlingly tasteful and well-executed piece even without introducing much of DT's signature technicality, a la Anna Lee.

What of the instrumental section, though? Much has been made of its out-of-placeness with the rest of the song, and I think the first half of it is somewhat inappopriate and quite ineffective. However, once JP's searing solo kicks in, the song regains all its momentum and then some, and it transitions extraordinarily well from that frenetic run into first a beautiful unison, then a nice harmony lead, and finally the final piano verse. It's not like Outcry where the vocals come back and you have to reorient yourself, because the section lets you down in a familiar place. That allows it to steadily build momentum for its final six minutes, culminating in the stunning ending with the ascending lead and increasingly manic drum fills.

#4.) In The Presence of Enemies

I almost put this one first, but just couldn't bring myself to do it. This is the polar opposite of Octavarium--a song that packs all its greatness into its first nineteen minutes, then sputters toward the finish line. I do think the first nineteen minutes of the song--from the first note through "IT'S TIME FOR YOUR RECKONING"--is the most consistently awesome stretch of Dream Theater music in one song, ever. People love Part I, and it is great, though more than half of it is just an overture, requiring the meat of Part II to really flesh out all its potential. "Heretic" and especially "The Slaughter of the Damned" rank at or above any DT metallic material. Systematic Chaos was the album where James really found his metal voice that had been missing since Awake, and it shows here, augmenting the heavy passages instead of pushing against them. There's an unending supply of big vocal melodies and guitar riffs that lead to one explosive section after another.

And then "The Reckoning" kicks in, and everything grinds to a halt within two minutes as the band pointlessly explores circular riffs that go nowhere. The solos are humdrum, and by the time the band downshifts back into the finale, no amount of affected pseudo-balladic bombast can really elevate the song's conclusion to anything above ordinary. It's quite a disappointing finish to a song that was so consistently excellent for such a large portion of such a long runtime.

Still, 19 minutes of consistent metallic greatness is nothing to scoff at for someone with my metal-oriented tastes. It's a hell of a ride.

#3.) Learning To Live

Of I&W's epics, this one shines the brightest, mostly because it was the first glimpse of DT's capabilities across a song that stretched over ten minutes. The F# is legendary, of course, and James is terrific throughout. It should also be noted how much this song does with solos without going too over the top technically--just look at JP's solo immediately after the F# or Kevin's solo in the tradeoff section for some really terrific leads that aren't cluttered with flurries of notes. The song illustrates, perhaps more than anything else in DT's career, their gift for making even the most obscure time signatures and arrangements flow naturally and sound downright accessible, even. I do wish it had a few more vocal sections to balance out the density of instrumentals, but unlike the songs above it, every bit of the song is compelling.

#2.) In The Name of God

Every bit of this one is compelling, too, only stretched out over an even longer runtime and with the added bonus of DT having figured out metallic textures. In The Name of God appears on an album that's far more one-dimensional than the one that contains Learning To Live, but in a lot of ways, the metallic bent of Train of Thought makes the downshifts of the song stand out and lend increased dynamism to the track. Sure, it's metal, but we've got a clean guitar intro, a mostly guitarless first verse, and all sorts of piano flourishes, including in the chorus and extended outro.

The metal elements are in full swing, but they're right there with ITPOE as the pinnacle of the band's metal career. JP, Jordan, Mike, and even JM are all on the top of their games, including in the unbelievably technical instrumentation section that is so mindblowing that I never even think "Is this connected to the song?" As with TMOLS, the song does a really good job getting from the instrumental shredding back to the familiar vocal territory without alienating its sense of songcraft, this time using an awesome drum breakdown.

James is notably not at his best on the track, but it hardly matters, because the melodies work well and all the parts are fantastic. The song pushes through with momentum all the way until the end with a fantastic outro. Just a tremendous, exhilarating, and truly epic track, start to finish.

I'll reveal #1 tomorrow! I wonder if anyone can guess what it is...
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 08:25:59 PM: Great choices. It's good to see In The Presence... up so high, it's a great song. In The Name Of God is good, but not one of my favorites from TOT.

Oh well, that's what opinions are for. :P
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 08:29:21 PM: Some oddball picks there among some obvious ones. Aside from ITNOG, I don't think any of them would make my top 50 though. :lol (are we still doing the BVD drinking game?)

But ITNOG is a top 5 for me, so that gets a :tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on July 03, 2013, 08:36:37 PM: Love the entertaining writeups.

completely disagree with 6,5, somewhat disagree with 4 but it's arguable, 3 is right where it should be, and mostly disagree with 2.

I still think this thread is great, I feel like your passion for the songs really comes out. You've pointed out some things about those songs that may be overlooked, and it's appreciated.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 09:15:55 PM: Very surprised at Ministry.

I have absolutely no idea what your #1 is.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: 425 on July 03, 2013, 09:36:30 PM: Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on July 03, 2013, 08:20:35 PM
#5.) The Ministry of Lost Souls

Yesyesyes! This is an absolutely brilliant song that rarely gets the love it deserves. I agree that the beginning of the instrumental is a bit jarring, but I honestly don't think the "Wanting to deserve a place..." part would have the same power if it didn't come after that instrumental section. Brilliant piece of music, the whole thing.

I also can't argue with the In The Presence of Enemies, In the Name of God or Learning to Live. Since the thread has already been headed in that direction anyway, I will say that I think A Change of Seasons is too high, but overall this is a excellent list.

Unless I'm missing something, you've pretty much already placed the obvious #1 choices elsewhere on your list. I'm going to throw out a couple of unconventional guesses to see if I stumble upon it:

The Dark Eternal Night
Sacrificed Sons
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 09:45:57 PM: If it's space-dye vest...

:\
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 09:51:39 PM: Space-Dye Vest is totally worthy of being number 1. Probably wouldn't be mine, though.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 09:53:05 PM: When I get around to making my Top 50, everyone will guess what my #1 is only to be COMPLETELY baffled by what it actually will be
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 09:56:01 PM: No! Not.....RAW DOG!!!!???!?!?!?!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 09:58:14 PM: Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 09:56:01 PM
No! Not.....RAW DOG!!!!???!?!?!?!

I don't think that will even be on the list. However, if it is, I'll call it Dream Theater's version of By-tor and the Snow Dog
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 09:59:51 PM: Hmmm... Well then, I await your list.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on July 03, 2013, 10:04:12 PM: Raw Dog is not my #1 either.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 10:12:09 PM: Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on July 03, 2013, 10:04:12 PM
Raw Dog is not my #1 either.

:tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 10:14:08 PM: Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on July 03, 2013, 10:04:12 PM
Raw Dog is not my #1 either.
I am disappointed, but not surprised.

You haven't had Learning To Live yet, so that's a possibility. Also, The Great Debate and Surrounded.

Or, for something really unexpected, Through Her Eyes.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 10:15:10 PM: Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: The Presence of Frenemies on July 03, 2013, 10:04:12 PM
Raw Dog is not my #1 either.
I am disappointed, but not surprised.

You haven't had Learning To Live yet, so that's a possibility. Also, The Great Debate and Surrounded.

Or, for something really unexpected, Through Her Eyes.

#3.) Learning To Live

Ummmm....
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 10:16:46 PM: Ohhhhhh.......
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 10:17:53 PM: And for something REALLY unexpected...

Through My Words.

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: GasparXR on July 03, 2013, 10:18:21 PM: Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 10:16:46 PM
Ohhhhhh.......

Maybe you meant Breaking All Illusions. :neverusethis:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 10:21:07 PM: Damn it, guys!

....I need to pay closer attention to what I'm reading :lol
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: 425 on July 03, 2013, 10:22:25 PM: Also he had Surrounded at #24.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 10:23:19 PM: Well, then he just can't have a number one! All the good ones are taken!

:neverusethis:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 10:24:00 PM: I will either be VERY surprised or not surprised at all.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on July 03, 2013, 10:57:30 PM: Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 03, 2013, 09:51:39 PM
Space-Dye Vest is totally worthy of being number 1.
QFT.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Scorpion on July 04, 2013, 02:55:19 AM: ItNoG is amazing and completely deserving of such a high spot. It was the first DT song that I heard and it hooked me - not instantly, but slowly and surely, so that might have something to do with appreciation though. :lol

Also much love for the other picks! Ministry is great and gets far, far too much hate, though I wouldn't rank it quite this high, but it's aweseom nevertheless to see some appreciation.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on July 04, 2013, 04:42:52 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 09:45:57 PM
If it's space-dye vest...

:metal

FTFM.

ACOS is much better than Octavarium IMO, and having ITPOE in your top 5 is great, it's my number one, and an underrated track.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Dream Team on July 04, 2013, 05:25:09 AM: I&W with 7 songs in the top 25, gotta love that. It also easily won the album poll.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 04, 2013, 05:30:08 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 03, 2013, 09:45:57 PM
If it's space-dye vest...

:heart
Fixed it for me :P
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Sycsa on July 04, 2013, 06:37:42 AM: Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 03, 2013, 12:46:31 AM
Quote from: Lucidity on July 02, 2013, 10:17:10 PM
Quote from: Scorpion on July 01, 2013, 03:40:00 PM
See, I'm in the same boat as TPOF. I enjoy every part of SDOIT, except for the Overture and Losing Time, but due to their vastly different moods and the lack of transitions in most cases, I find it very hard to listen to it in one sitting. I prefer listening to parts of the song - aside from WIMH/TTTSTA, which belong together, they all work as standalone pieces very well, even better than in the context of Six Degrees (the song).

I completely agree with this. I hate it when people talk about Six Degrees like it's one song. It's not. It's fine to listen to in one sitting, but each part is its own song, and I think of them as individual DT songs. And they generally work better on their own than with their transitions, save for WIMH.

It is, whether you think it works as one or not. It is a song. Personally, I have never once listened to it in sections, only as a whole (and it's my #1 or #2 DT song, so that's a lot).

While it's futile to argue whether SDOIT is a song or not (if the band says it is, then it is), I still have to mention two things:
- they always play War Inside My Head and The Test independently
- most of the transitions aren't smooth, especially About to Crash (reprise). If that doesn't sound like the start of an independent song, nothing does.
For me, SDOIT is more of a concept album and just a tad bit more of a single song than SFAM or the 12SS.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 04, 2013, 06:52:02 AM: 1. They've played sections of ACOS in the same manner (see OIALT).
2. They play it in sections because otherwise they simply would never get to play it at all, being FORTY TWO MINUTES and all.

But semantics aside, I don't really care what it's classified as, whether it's a suite, or a song, I still consider it among the very best music the band has ever written.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Elite on July 04, 2013, 07:19:10 AM: A couple of guesses for your #1:

- Space-Dye Vest
- Misunderstood
- The Great Debate

If it's the latter, I'll love you.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: The Presence of Frenemies on July 04, 2013, 11:25:21 PM: #1.) The Killing Hand

Probably couldn't have called this one, right?

Let me get something out of the way: I'm not really talking about the album version (though that version does show the song's potential). It is the live versions with James that really show how truly huge The Killing Hand is.

It's not so much James himself--well, in the '92-'93 versions, it is, as he delivers the most mindblowing performance of his career on the track. But it says something that he struggled through the song post-accident and it was still incredible, thanks to reworked instrumentation. That's not one, but two different versions that each are tremendous--I can't think of another DT song that succeeded so profoundly in two different arrangements.

The best thing about The Killing Hand is how much it packs into an eight-minute runtime. There are verses upon verses upon verses, and all sorts of instrumental breaks too. The arrangment feels so much more epic in scope than a lot of DT's longer tracks, because the musical journey is so much more intricate. And even though there are so many different feels in there, it all feels natural together.

James' vocals on the '93 era version are obviously a huge highlight, and the instrumental work from all four members also shines brightly (How great is the unison before the final verse?!). JP also adds that huge solo in the middle of the final verse in the '96 version that's one of his absolute best.

Overall, this song showcases all five members at the height of their musicianship, while having the most interesting, inventive, and satisfying arrangement they ever came up with. Underproduced, undersung album version aside, this song shines brighter than any other DT highlight when given a treatment that brings out its full potential.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope you all enjoyed the list! I enjoyed bringing it to you.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 04, 2013, 11:28:09 PM: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg:

:omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg: :omg:

Never saw that coming! Great song, though. I've really enjoyed this list, good job! :tup:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: BlobVanDam on July 04, 2013, 11:31:37 PM: Well as far as WDADU songs go, I'm not going to rage too hard, especially as you're going by the IaW era JLB versions, which are about as good as WDADU gets.

Can't say I agree with it, but definitely an interesting and unexpected choice!
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: ? on July 04, 2013, 11:38:25 PM: Quote from: Shadow Ninja 2.0 on July 04, 2013, 11:28:09 PM
Never saw that coming! Great song, though. I've really enjoyed this list, good job! :tup:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 06:50:18 AM: Wow.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nobloodyname on July 05, 2013, 06:53:12 AM: Oooh, I like your choice. Very unexpected. Good tune (although I refer to the original rather than the Reunite version with JLB wailing all over it).
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM: Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Elite on July 05, 2013, 07:04:37 AM: I almost thought of adding that to my list of expected songs, nice choice! :tup
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 07:14:24 AM: Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.

Like The Dance of Eternity?
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Meatrose on July 05, 2013, 07:30:48 AM: Posted in the wrong thread. Feel free to remove the post. :3
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Elite on July 05, 2013, 07:39:59 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.

Like The Dance of Eternity?

No, not like the Dance of Eternity. Nothing should ever be like TDOE.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: MoraWintersoul on July 05, 2013, 07:44:34 AM: Great :tup enjoyed this a lot. This is how a top 50 should be.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: nicmos on July 05, 2013, 07:59:48 AM: Quote from: MoraWintersoul on July 05, 2013, 07:44:34 AM
Great :tup enjoyed this a lot. This is how a top 50 should be.

Agreed. If you took your actual writeups, and just moved all the numbers around, it would certainly be a top 50 I'd be proud of. :biggrin:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 08:18:27 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.

Like The Dance of Eternity?

Not really. For one thing, TDOE is an instrumental. I'm talking about a song with vocals.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucidity on July 05, 2013, 11:50:22 PM: Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 08:18:27 AM
Quote from: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.

Like The Dance of Eternity?

Not really. For one thing, TDOE is an instrumental. I'm talking about a song with vocals.
I feel like 6:00 and Under a Glass Moon achieve this, among others.
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Lucien on July 06, 2013, 08:31:29 AM: Quote from: Lucidity on July 05, 2013, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 08:18:27 AM
Quote from: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.

Like The Dance of Eternity?

Not really. For one thing, TDOE is an instrumental. I'm talking about a song with vocals.
I feel like 6:00 and Under a Glass Moon achieve this, among others.

Oh, okay.

So, like These Walls?
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Ruba on July 06, 2013, 09:06:42 AM: A WDADU song as a number one!

;) :D ;D :o :laugh: :yarr :metal :) :biggrin: :lol :tup :hefdaddy :azn: :smiley:
Title: Re: TPOF's Overly Wordy Top 50
Post by: Dream Team on July 08, 2013, 06:49:40 AM: Quote from: Lucien on July 06, 2013, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: Lucidity on July 05, 2013, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 08:18:27 AM
Quote from: Lucien on July 05, 2013, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: Dream Team on July 05, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Great choice. Love the beautiful WDADRU version as well as Marquee.

To your other point, it would be great to have some short prog songs on the new Dream Theater. It seems lately that anything shorter than 8 minutes is the ballad or metal number. Would love to see them pack some prog craziness into a 4 to 6 minute arrangement.

These Walls is chock full of prog craziness??? It's one of their more straightforward songs! I'm talking something like Metropolis or Take The Time condensed down to four and a half minutes. Would be a wild ride, no?

Like The Dance of Eternity?

Not really. For one thing, TDOE is an instrumental. I'm talking about a song with vocals.
I feel like 6:00 and Under a Glass Moon achieve this, among others.

Oh, okay.

So, like These Walls?