Didn't see if this is posted before: Marco Minnemann discussing his DT audition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYgkptWipng
Does the angle change to landscape at all ?
If not - why would you upload that and not immediately take it down again and fix it ?
Pretty cool. (the audio, anyway; I couldn't watch it)
Given Marco's ability, I definitely wouldn't have minded him in the band at all. But as he clarified even more in this video, his schedule would really be a HUGE issue. It just would not have been a good fit.
Nice, I really don't mind his "I didn't want to be shown" thing, he sounds like a very sincere man.
Also, he's my favorite drummer ever. He's style is something I always admire a lot.
The fact he didn't want to be in the band bolsters the rumour that he got asked first but turned it down.
Quote from: Kotowboy on May 03, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
The fact he didn't want to be in the band bolsters the rumour that he got asked first but turned it down.
Or he was in for final consideration and was asked in a "second interview". It would be real hard to believe there weren't further discussions with some of the guys before choosing Mangini. You don't make that kind of decision by listening to somebody play for an hour.
Quote from: johncal on May 03, 2013, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: Kotowboy on May 03, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
The fact he didn't want to be in the band bolsters the rumour that he got asked first but turned it down.
Or he was in for final consideration and was asked in a "second interview". It would be real hard to believe there weren't further discussions with some of the guys before choosing Mangini. You don't make that kind of decision by listening to somebody play for an hour.
From everything I've heard, I have always had the impression that it wasn't an "offer" at that point in time, but that it was more just during the feeling out/interview process where they were discussing "
If we bring you on, here's kind of the commitment level we are expecting, etc." I don't think it was, "Hey, we'd like to offer you the job, and here's what it takes," and then Marco saying, "Oh, yeah, I can't really do it then." I mean, it
could have gone like that, but that's not the impression I've gotten.
What I never have been able to figure out is
when during the process that that conversation happened. Even though it hasn't been explicit, from the way I have heard Marco describe it twice now, it almost sounds to me like that had that conversation even before he actually auditioned, but they basically said to him something along the lines of, "well, why don't you come audition anyway and we'll see how it goes."
Quote from: bosk1 on May 03, 2013, 03:39:07 PM
From everything I've heard, I have always had the impression that it wasn't an "offer" at that point in time, but that it was more just during the feeling out/interview process where they were discussing "If we bring you on, here's kind of the commitment level we are expecting, etc." I don't think it was, "Hey, we'd like to offer you the job, and here's what it takes," and then Marco saying, "Oh, yeah, I can't really do it then." I mean, it could have gone like that, but that's not the impression I've gotten.
What I never have been able to figure out is when during the process that that conversation happened. Even though it hasn't been explicit, from the way I have heard Marco describe it twice now, it almost sounds to me like that had that conversation even before he actually auditioned, but they basically said to him something along the lines of, "well, why don't you come audition anyway and we'll see how it goes."
The bold is what I always believed as well. If anything, I always had the impression that it was Mangini's job to lose considering how similar his life was/is to the members of DT...ie Age, family....even faith? Who knows....I highly doubt they'll ever reveal how it all went down and personally I think they picked the right man for the job.
Wasn't the sit-down session after the audition exactly that time where they talked about this? I mean, they invited quite few drummers, some of them obscure. I think DT simply contacted them, gave them a free stay in NYC, and then the guys showed up. They played with them, and after that sat down and told them the constraints. Pretty sure Marco was referring to that moment where he said he wouldn't commit.
Really interesting I thought is that he didn't know any DT song. That's surprising for a drummer in that genre.
Quote from: rumborak on May 03, 2013, 05:40:27 PM
Really interesting I thought is that he didn't know any DT song. That's surprising for a drummer in that genre.
In all honesty, even though I feel a certain sympathy for him, I think this is part of that attitude of superiority that has often showed against DT(especially on Facebook). I can not know whether it's all true what he said, but the fact of underline it several times, with also a certain amount of arrogance, in a few sentences, it's just a signal of that attitude.
Still an incredible drummer and a really funny guy to me, but i've never liked his way to manage that situation with DT.
Quote from: bosk1 on May 03, 2013, 03:39:07 PM
it almost sounds to me like that had that conversation even before he actually auditioned, but they basically said to him something along the lines of, "well, why don't you come audition anyway and we'll see how it goes."
I get the same feeling. Maybe the DT guys thought that if he had fun while doing the audition he might change his mind and actually commit to it.
Looking forward to seeing what Minnemann and Petrucci, et al come up with musically. :tup
-J
Listening to Marco's side of the events, it almost gives me the impression that the documentary portrays things a little inaccurately. I haven't watched it a while, but didn't the documentary producers led the viewer to believe that it was a somewhat tight decision in the end between Marco and Mangini? However, Marco make it seems like from the start there was no serious consideration to him joining the band. He said he was just there at the auditions with the intention of "having fun with the guys." He never really took it like a serious audition to join the band. He had never even heard any of their songs, he said.
Oh, absolutely. That whole "omg, we can't decide" was for dramatic effect to increase interest in the upcoming album. Everything points towards Mike Mangini having been the only really viable option. He had the skill, the availability and the desire.
The awkward moment when I can understand Marco better than the guy translating his words into my language. :eek
Quote from: wasteland on May 04, 2013, 04:38:08 AM
The awkward moment when I can understand Marco better than the guy translating his words into my language. :eek
Totally.
He's got a better gig now anyway (see: Steven Wilson). :biggrin:
Why do people still film with their phones in portrait mode ?
you dont watch LCD TV's that way....
FU DT :-)
Very interesting video, it's cool that they finally got Mangini since he was 110% into getting the job.
Hopefully a cool side project will be created in the future with JP and JR, as he said they already thought about it, and it has the potential to sound great.
Quote from: KevShmev on May 04, 2013, 12:58:58 PM
He's got a better gig now anyway (see: Steven Wilson). :biggrin:
(https://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/03/oh_no_you_didnt-38716.gif)
His drumming is awesome on TRTRTS and Mangini is a better fit for DT anyway, so things went the right way.
He also discussed his DT experience in detail here, starting at the 9 minute mark:
https://magazine2.idrummag.com/idrum-magazine-issue-9-benny-greb/issue9/page/38
So whats your favourite DT album ? :)
:blush :blush
Speaking of Marco!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzaEQJ1l90s
:lol :rollin :metal
^ Fuckin hell - when Marco joins in at the start it sounds awesome.
Quote from: MoraWintersoul on May 05, 2013, 02:43:51 AM
Quote from: KevShmev on May 04, 2013, 12:58:58 PM
He's got a better gig now anyway (see: Steven Wilson). :biggrin:
(https://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/03/oh_no_you_didnt-38716.gif)
:lol
Quote from: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on May 05, 2013, 10:45:08 AM
Speaking of Marco!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzaEQJ1l90s
:lol :rollin :metal
As awesome as his contribution are to SW's album, this stuff does nothing for me. Bummer.
Marco's a fantastic musician and i'm sure he's a great guy but he can sometimes come across as slightly passive aggressive in some of his comments. I don't think it's intentional however :)
at 16:15 here marco says HE contacted DT about the drummer spot after hearing MP left...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiDZKY96H9Y
now in that drummag interview he's saying JR contacted him.
um, wut?
The OTE production was really great for building suspense about the new drummer and album. I was definitely glued to all three episodes and would have liked to see more behind the scenes stuff. Anyway, while it was cool, I don't take it seriously as anything other than a good bit of TV. It's definitely not a real documentary of facts. From what I can tell, it is reality TV at best.
Quote from: Jay.Ess on May 05, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
Marco's a fantastic musician and i'm sure he's a great guy but he can sometimes come across as slightly passive aggressive in some of his comments. I don't think it's intentional however :)
Yep, this is how you define passive aggressive:
Quote from: Marco Minnemann
I btw have an email where they promised me to not use the video if I don't want to. Well, they lied:-). But thanks for your kind words.
For the entire filming I received $500, broken promises about the release and collaborations on my new CD. And someone calling me and complaining he heard I was telling people in advance who the new drummer is. And on top of it I never got even send a copy. So FU DT, I'm sorry:-)
Quote from: phentalmyst on May 06, 2013, 05:50:36 AM
at 16:15 here marco says HE contacted DT about the drummer spot after hearing MP left...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiDZKY96H9Y
now in that drummag interview he's saying JR contacted him.
um, wut?
I might be missing something but the only thing i hear is: that
he got in touch with Jordan which could basically mean that JR contacted him.
Quote from: Jay.Ess on May 05, 2013, 09:15:19 PM
Marco's a fantastic musician and i'm sure he's a great guy but he can sometimes come across as slightly passive aggressive in some of his comments. I don't think it's intentional however :)
I agree and this is why I take a lot of what he says with a grain of salt.
Quote from: MrBoom_shack-a-lack on May 06, 2013, 05:58:57 AM
Quote from: phentalmyst on May 06, 2013, 05:50:36 AM
at 16:15 here marco says HE contacted DT about the drummer spot after hearing MP left...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiDZKY96H9Y
now in that drummag interview he's saying JR contacted him.
um, wut?
I might be missing something but the only thing i hear is: that he got in touch with Jordan which could basically mean that JR contacted him.
This, yeah. Getting in touch does not necessarily mean that he initiated the contact. Keep also in mind that the guy's native language isn't English, so reading into a subtlety like that is dangerous.
Regarding the passive-aggressive, I don't really see that. He was pissed after the audition, sure, but I think for good reason.
Just listening to the guy talk tells me he would not be the best fit for DT. Sure he's a tremendous talent but it takes more than that to be part of a TEAM. We saw that with the last DT drummer. I can't think of a better fit for DT than Mangini.
If he made it clear he wouldn't join the band before the audition, it may be the case that he feels used for going in for a "make-believe" audition for the documentary.
If he knew he wasn't going to join the band (by his choice) then why go in at all. I don't think I'd audition for a band I knew I didn't want to be a member of... unless maybe I was young and just trying to get experience in auditioning (can't see that being a problem for Marco ;)).
If his auditioned was arranged purely to add some spice to the documentary or something and everyone knew it (Dt and MarcoM) then I can't see why he would feel used...
Even if Marco never had any actual interest in joining DT, he can't deny that being featured in the documentary made him more well-known, since a lot of people had never heard of him before that. I don't think DT/OTE presented him in a bad light, although it was misleading to make people believe he was close to getting the gig.
Uh, I just think none of the parties was really on the same page with the other. I don't want to say DT have no hand in his dissatisfaction with how the whole thing turned out, they should have absolutely made it more clear that featuring him in the docu, under those conditions they had for him and everything, was what they wanted, but at the same time, he is the only drummer of the 7 they had any trouble communicating with, and only two of the drummers (Mangini and Wildoer) were really ready to commit to the gig, and I don't think any of them but DT cared a bit for that documentary, so that obviously puts a little guilt on MM2's side, because they would have had problems with the other guys who were only interested in the auditioning experience as well. But I don't hold that against any of them.
Quote from: Rob801 on May 06, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
If he knew he wasn't going to join the band (by his choice) then why go in at all. I don't think I'd audition for a band I knew I didn't want to be a member of... unless maybe I was young and just trying to get experience in auditioning (can't see that being a problem for Marco ;)).
If his auditioned was arranged purely to add some spice to the documentary or something and everyone knew it (Dt and MarcoM) then I can't see why he would feel used...
People go to job interviews even though they're not interested in working for that particular company. It's just good common sense, and you never know what's going to happen. Even if Marco wasn't thrilled about being in DT, or in any band (although in the doc he says it would be good to be part of a band that feels like "home"), he had nothing to lose and a lot to win: the audition and chemistry could have gone exceptionally well and changed his opinion about DT and his desire to join the band, they could have offered a really sweet deal that allured him, he would gain more public recognition (which he did), he was attracted by the promise of collaborating in projects with JR and JP (that's why he was disappointed afterwards), or he could just have a great time going to New York, meeting and playing with cool musicians and making some contacts while somebody else is paying for your expenses. Why not? Accepting the audition is the only sensible decision.
I actually don't know if there were any drummers that were contacted and rejected to go to the audition, that would have been very stupid.
I'm assuming Marco was called by Jordan, saying "hey dude, we're looking for a new drummer because MP left. Why don't you just show up and jam with us. All expenses covered, and even if you don't become our drummer there might still be some later collaboration". I would think Marco will have pointed out to Jordan about his plans (i.e. not wanting to be locked down completely to one band). Then they met, jammed, talked, and parted amicably. And at a later time DT management decided to make the documentary, which however violated Marco's wish of not appearing in such a thing. Management will have weighed their option (PR gain vs potential law suit by Marco) but decided it was worth it. And that's probably where Marco's statement came in with "I was promised a collaboration". Maybe that collaboration was promised in compensation of having violated the terms of the agreement. But, now that he got neither, he probably has good reason to be miffed.
I'm wondering, why is all this on Marco alone? Derek Roddy also said some not so nice things about that audition
Quote
Cheers man....yeah, I started wondering why they would have shown the 4 minutes of just hearing the riff.....and didn't show any of my actually playing that riff.....but, then I figured it out.
Any drummer that wasn't affiliated with RR records in some way....had a "flaw" presented with-in this doc.
They knew they wanted Mike before the Audition, Jordan and JP are doing a project with Marco and Peter plays with James.......so, that made a whole lot of sense to me actually.
I do know that a lot of what they wanted to put in of me playing (such as the songs and our jam) just sounded bad without the recorded audio....so, I understand not wanting to put much of that footage in there....from an editors point of view. (I do some video editing myself...so, I get it.)
Everyone of those drummers told me that the riff they showed them tripped them up for 5 minutes.....so why were Thomas, Virgil, Aquilles and I the only ones who were presented this way?
The DEE DUBS rule man....you'll love em.
D
https://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=941495 (https://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=941495)
It seems to me that the whole process wasn't handled very well by DT and DT's management so if Marco is upset and wants to be vocal about it then he should be able to do that without people questioning whether he is "passive-aggressive" or something of the sorts.
The collaboration between Marco, JR and JP is still open. JP called Marco to see if he was available for his solo album. Once the DT album is finished, both of their schedules will be possibly a bit more open (Marco still has the Aristocrat tour pending and the Satriani one as well). If it's not JP's solo album, it could also be the 2nd reincarnation of LTE.
Quote from: Nekov on May 07, 2013, 08:48:37 AM
I'm wondering, why is all this on Marco alone? Derek Roddy also said some not so nice things about that audition
Quote
Cheers man....yeah, I started wondering why they would have shown the 4 minutes of just hearing the riff.....and didn't show any of my actually playing that riff.....but, then I figured it out.
Any drummer that wasn't affiliated with RR records in some way....had a "flaw" presented with-in this doc.
They knew they wanted Mike before the Audition, Jordan and JP are doing a project with Marco and Peter plays with James.......so, that made a whole lot of sense to me actually.
I do know that a lot of what they wanted to put in of me playing (such as the songs and our jam) just sounded bad without the recorded audio....so, I understand not wanting to put much of that footage in there....from an editors point of view. (I do some video editing myself...so, I get it.)
Everyone of those drummers told me that the riff they showed them tripped them up for 5 minutes.....so why were Thomas, Virgil, Aquilles and I the only ones who were presented this way?
The DEE DUBS rule man....you'll love em.
D
https://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=941495 (https://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=941495)
It seems to me that the whole process wasn't handled very well by DT and DT's management so if Marco is upset and wants to be vocal about it then he should be able to do that without people questioning whether he is "passive-aggressive" or something of the sorts.
If Marco is upset, he's in his right to voice his opinion. However, putting smileys after saying "they lied" and "FU DT" does come off as butthurt and PA. If you publicly express your opinion on FB, you can expect feedback of all sorts. I personally was mildly annoyed seeing that comment considering all the fame and recognition he got from that documentary/reality show thingy. He should have played it more cool. I still like his music though and I'm glad I was exposed to his playing.
Keep in mind that Marco was wrongfully accused of slipping the new drummer's name, and got all kinds of nasty flak from DT fans. I see nothing butthurt or passive-aggressive about his comments, only a guy who is pissed at having become a victim of DT management's calculated screw-over.
Quote from: rumborak on May 07, 2013, 09:52:19 AM
Keep in mind that Marco was wrongfully accused of slipping the new drummer's name, and got all kinds of nasty flak from DT fans. I see nothing butthurt or passive-aggressive about his comments, only a guy who is pissed at having become a victim of DT management's calculated screw-over.
It's fine for you to discuss what you think happened and how Minneman might feel about it, but saying DT and/or their management intentionally engaged in wrongdoing is crossing the line, especially when stated as fact. That needs to stop.
Just thinking more about the DVD... Why couldn't the producers have started the documentary by letting the DT guys openly admit that Mangini was the favorite and he was the one to beat in their eyes? I think that would've been fine with me. Most of us thought that anyway. However, the DVD instead leads the viewer to believe that is was a tight competition, which wasn't really the case according to Minnemann. He was never even a legit candidate. The inaccurate portrayal makes the whole documentary feel manufactured to me, and I'm kinda sour on it now. Again, it's not DT's fault. The producers just chose to make the audition process seem more suspenseful and sexy than it really was. Personally, I don't really like that. Just tell it like it is, IMO.
Well, to be fair, I'm not really sure the band actually didn't consider Minnemann to be a legit candidate. The only thing we have to go on are a few short statements from Minnemann that do not really say specifically what was said or when they were said. After the fact, it seems certain that there was at least some miscommunication. But it's not clear that it was anything more than that.
Quote from: bosk1 on May 07, 2013, 10:45:48 AM
Quote from: rumborak on May 07, 2013, 09:52:19 AM
Keep in mind that Marco was wrongfully accused of slipping the new drummer's name, and got all kinds of nasty flak from DT fans. I see nothing butthurt or passive-aggressive about his comments, only a guy who is pissed at having become a victim of DT management's calculated screw-over.
It's fine for you to discuss what you think happened and how Minneman might feel about it, but saying DT and/or their management intentionally engaged in wrongdoing is crossing the line, especially when stated as fact. That needs to stop.
I was about to say something similar. This is all very speculative, and in some cases quite a stretch. For example, I very much doubt they considered the documentary idea as an afterthough, as every audition was professionally filmed with multiple cameras, so I'm pretty sure there was always an intention to do something like that.
If the intention was there then Rumbo has a point. If Marco stated that he didn't want any footage to be shown and was promised that but then he does get included then it is a calculated screw-over, maybe not by DT but sure by management or the editors.
That's really all I'm saying. I don't see where the speculation would come in, outside of suggesting that Marco fabricated all of this.
Keep also in mind that he wasn't the only participant who had misgivings about the auditions.
I'm also not on sone crusade against Dream Theater. The music business is a tough business, and honestly, that disregarding of Marco's wishes is a minor wrinkle. All I'm saying is that he probably has a good right to be pissed off. In the end I even agree with DT's decision to include Marco in the documentary. It was a major boost to the docu to have him in there (without him there wouldn't really have been much competition in the audition), and Marco's desire to not have the footage used that was being taken was probably a little naive.
We're only hearing one side of the story, so people need to stop just taking everything Marco says at face value. Clearly there was some misunderstanding, but we don't have enough information to just assume anyone was acting maliciously.
Quote from: ZirconBlue on May 08, 2013, 07:49:26 AM
We're only hearing one side of the story, so people need to stop just taking everything Marco says at face value. Clearly there was some misunderstanding, but we don't have enough information to just assume anyone was acting maliciously.
:clap:
Quote from: DebraKadabra on May 08, 2013, 11:01:37 AM
Quote from: ZirconBlue on May 08, 2013, 07:49:26 AM
We're only hearing one side of the story, so people need to stop just taking everything Marco says at face value. Clearly there was some misunderstanding, but we don't have enough information to just assume anyone was acting maliciously.
:clap:
Well, that's what *I* was trying to say in my post too, but I notice you didn't give
me the clap. :( Wait...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bw2X1oq_js
Quote from: bosk1 on May 08, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
Well, that's what *I* was trying to say in my post too, but I notice you didn't give me the clap. :( Wait...
Beggars can't be choosers, you know. :zydar:
Sorry, I don't buy any of this at all. DT does NOT seem like the type of band to go against someone's wishes. JP would never, ever do that. Neither would the other guys. Seems like he auditioned, didn't get picked, now he's trying to save face. "Oh, I never 'REALLY' wanted to be in the band, anyway."
Yeah, sure you didn't. Okay.
Quote from: SnakeEyes on May 12, 2013, 08:57:33 PM
Sorry, I don't buy any of this at all. DT does NOT seem like the type of band to go against someone's wishes. JP would never, ever do that. Neither would the other guys. Seems like he auditioned, didn't get picked, now he's trying to save face. "Oh, I never 'REALLY' wanted to be in the band, anyway."
Yeah, sure you didn't. Okay.
Although this is all very speculative, I'm surprised you're the first one to bring this up. Here on DTF, we are all too happy to let DT be the bad guy. :lol Why not Marco?
I just don't buy DT being the bad guy. They've had two FIRED members join them on stage - Derek & Charlie Dominicci - and Derek always speaks very highly of them. One time, about ten years ago, I was on AIM and Derek hangs out on there..... usually he never answers questions, but he was in a good mood, I guess. I said something like, "Man, JP's solos are starting to suck" and he replied with, "why do you say that?" and proceeded to speak very positively about JP'S CURRENT (at the time) playing.
I know that's a little off topic, but the point is.... even past members of DT say they're good, upstanding guys. This is bullshit.
Quote from: SnakeEyes on May 12, 2013, 09:14:06 PM
I just don't buy DT being the bad guy. They've had two FIRED members join them on stage - Derek & Charlie Dominicci - and Derek always speaks very highly of them. One time, about ten years ago, I was on AIM and Derek hangs out on there..... usually he never answers questions, but he was in a good mood, I guess. I said something like, "Man, JP's solos are starting to suck" and he replied with, "why do you say that?" and proceeded to speak very positively about JP'S CURRENT (at the time) playing.
I know that's a little off topic, but the point is.... even past members of DT say they're good, upstanding guys. This is bullshit.
Could have been a disconnect between the band and management too. I mean Marco is still planning to work with the DT guys on other projects so obviously there's not too much bad blood between them directly.
-J
There's being a good guy, and there's letting a prime opportunity for marketing slip by. The ATSCO documentary had everybody glued to their seats for a few weeks. Without Marco I think the dynamic of the audition would have been very different, with Mangini being the obvious guy to choose. I'm sure management will have had a leading hand in the push to disregard Marco's wishes, but the members of DT aren't idiots either. The music business isn't the type of business where you get far by trying to keep everyone in your path happy at all times. DT will know that. That's why I'm also saying I don't really blame DT for doing it, and also that Marco was somewhat naive to think something like that wouldn't happen.
And in fairness to Marco, he's obviously not holding a grudge against the band themselves, as he's still planning to do a project with JP and JR.