DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Perpetual Change on May 01, 2013, 07:35:20 PM
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This has finally come true.
Thanks to streaming music, MP3s, vinyls, and BluRay/DVD audio. If I want convenience for travel, I go MP3. If I want sheer quality, I'll take the DVD audio. If I want nicer packaging and that warm, fuzzy feeling of holding a new record in my hands, I'll take the vinyls.
It's just occurred to me that I may have already purchased my last CD.
Anyone in the same boat?
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I can see the appeal of MP3s and such, but I prefer CDs. I don't know, it feels more "real" to me if I have something physical. Of course, CDs are technically digital, so....
I guess what I like is a physical representation of my digital media. Doesn't really make much sense when I think about it, but I don't care.
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I can see the appeal of MP3s and such, but I prefer CDs. I don't know, it feels more "real" to me if I have something physical. Of course, CDs are technically digital, so....
I guess what I like is a physical representation of my digital media. Doesn't really make much sense when I think about it, but I don't care.
I do too, but DVD audio is physical, as are vinyls. So, I dunno. CDs just seem kinda lame in that regard.
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Well, in this digital area, I assume when you download Joe you still burn a copy to a blank CD. I like it as a back up in case the hard drive dies. Though I have a 1TB storage drive just for music and pictures.
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Well, in this digital area, I assume when you download Joe you still burn a copy to a blank CD. I like it as a back up in case the hard drive dies. Though I have a 1TB storage drive just for music and pictures.
I used to, yeah, but blank CDs can have pretty inconsistent lifespans. Now that Amazon just lets me download what I buy over and over again, I feel no need to do anything other than occasional backups to my external HD.
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
How much of my life has been a lie?...
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I'll keep buying CDs for as long as they're produced. I do download a large percentage of my music from Amazon and Bandcamp, but the only reason why I do so is because it allows me to buy more music with my money. If I was able to afford it, I'd buy CDs almost exclusively. I like having a physical product with the ability to easily transfer the music to my iPod. Plus, it's fun browsing through CDs at record stores.
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I keep buying CD's for the artwork and the physicality of it, but I'll rip it immediately to MP3 (but at least I get to choose the bitrate I want, versus whatever the digital media store allows). I think the artists also get more money for physical media sales. I seem to remember Weird Al saying how little he got for MP3 sales versus CD's...
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Actually stood at the merchandise section of the Steve Wilson concert and debated buying the CD (I didn't own it at that point yet). Then I realized that all my physical CDs are down in the basement slowly rotting away and iv only ever listen through Google Music to my music. So, I purchased the mp3 instead from Amazon.
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I suppose I'm getting to the point where CDs are becoming irrelevant to me, but I still like the own the physical product. However, like rumborak, my CDs nowadays just sit and collect dust, ever since I set up streaming music from my computer to either of the good sound systems in my house, and have been systematically re-ripping my entire collection into FLAC. It's just far too convenient for so many reasons that actually taking out a CD has become completely redundant, even a nuisance.
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I really don't buy CDs anymore, and haven't for some 5-6 years. Unless it's some special edition packaging from one of my truly favorite bands (like Coheed's The Afterman) I go digital and upload it to Google Music.
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Regarding the physicality of the medium, the last truly awesome medium in its presentation was vinyl. You get this huge beautiful piece of artwork. CDs tried to continue that, but the form factor just never made it have the same impact.
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
LOL.
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
Guess I need to buy record players for my office (my fellow profs will love me for that) and start hauling vinyl albums everywhere.
Also, anyone know where I can get a good record player for my car? Mine skips all the time.
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The life of an artist requires great sacrifice.
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Also, anyone know where I can get a good record player for my car? Mine skips all the time.
You just need to learn to drive (lrn2drv) better or get an 8-track if you want portable vinyl.
Cassettes are for pussies.
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Sadly, I have almost reached this point as well. Even the ones I still buy the CD of, I get the CD and then almost always listen to the mp3s in my car or on my computer. But with over 700 physical CDs, I simply cannot bring myself to sell them.
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Also, anyone know where I can get a good record player for my car? Mine skips all the time.
You just need to learn to drive (lrn2drv) better or get an 8-track if you want portable vinyl.
Cassettes are for pussies.
I also need a portable version, because I walk to work.
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I keep buying CD's for the artwork and the physicality of it, but I'll rip it immediately to MP3
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I still like CDs for the following purposes:
-Easily showing new music to friends on a whim when computer/mp3 player tomfoolery involves more effort (like if someone's swinging by to give me a ride and I can just pop a CD in their car.)
-A way for me to support the small core of bands I like despite the fact that torrents are obviously available. I refuse to spend money for something that's identically available for free elsewhere.
-Having a hard copy of the artwork and liner notes for albums by the core of artists I choose to financially support.
-Nostalgic link to the dominant medium from my generation.
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Vinyl is way too big and inconvenient, and DVD audio isn't as tranferrable (can't play it on a CD player).
I still love and buy lots of CDs, but I do buy quite a lot of mp3 albums as well, simply because I don't have space to store every CD.
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I buy CD's because I like to have an album physically. I also have a lot of mp3, but only for "one time". If the music is good, I buy an album.
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I like CD's because I can easily stack them on shelves to display in my home. I like the idea of someone being able to glance at the collection like books on a bookshelf and get of an idea of what I've listened to.
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
The life of an artist requires great sacrifice.
(https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqscuhzaVE1qcjgqro2_1280.png)
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I raise you this:
(https://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/69193452.png)
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For the records I really, really love, I'll buy it on vinyl if it's available, and CD if it isn't. For records I want, but are much more expensive on vinyl, I'll just get the CD. Only on rare occasions will I ever get a digital version only; I just don't trust it. I'm also a fan of colored vinyl, and other collectible aspects of owning a physical copy of the music I love.
I try to buy everything new so bands get more of the money, but I do love a good deal on used merchandise. I also like browsing at my local record stores because you never know what gem you'll find buried in a pile of old records. Plus it helps to keep a great business going.
I will buy physical media for as long as it exists (which is hopefully my entire lifetime) because there will never be any amount of arguments that will convince me that the digital version is just as good.
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
The life of an artist requires great sacrifice.
(https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqscuhzaVE1qcjgqro2_1280.png)
So this is now our official "Steven Wilson lols at you" reaction pic? :lol
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FLAC is the shit, yo.
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So this is now our official "Steven Wilson lols at you" reaction pic? :lol
On this particular occasion is more like "Steven Wilson is delighted" :D
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I buy vinyl over CD's, but I still get the latter as well. It's nice to have a CD and play it in the car, and so on.
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Only on rare occasions will I ever get a digital version only; I just don't trust it. I'm also a fan of colored vinyl, and other collectible aspects of owning a physical copy of the music I love.
I'm the same with digital downloads. I'll only do it if the physical copy is difficult/expensive to get, or in some cases, when the physical copy doesn't exist.
FLAC is the shit, yo.
:metal
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I came to that realization in 2007 after getting my first ipod. I resisted all through high-school since i was such a contrarian, but finally gave in and immediately after I got an Ipod, I knew I was never going to listen to CD's again,
but...
I still buy a shit load of CD's and let me tell you why. Right now, nobody wants CD's so they are on Amazon for like a dollar or two. So I just order them, burn them onto my computer and throw them in a closet. Some are even a Penny. For example
(https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x459/phoenix87x/Screenshot2013-05-02at55619AM_zpsc2e3e448.png) (https://s1182.photobucket.com/user/phoenix87x/media/Screenshot2013-05-02at55619AM_zpsc2e3e448.png.html)
I was able to get a ton of cd's from the 90's and 80's and barely paid anything, so even though I'll never listen to a physical CD, I still get a lot of use out of them.
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Heh, I've noticed that too, Phoenix. Kinda silly, if you ask me.
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Physical copy is a physical copy, no matter what. I don't own a mp3-player or iPod. I use a portable CD-player (srsly), whenever I want to listen to music, I pick the CDs I like and go.
And digital copies don't have artwork and booklets. They are one reason why I like CDs.
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Mine skips all the time.
Put a quarter on the needle! :lol
Fogeys must remember that!
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The internet is full of streaming and mp3's, and neither is anything I want. I'll stick with CD's until everything is available in FLAC, which I guess won't ever happen. Even the mp3 shops have a really poor selection of music available, so CD's is still the only way to get pretty much everything in a decent quality.
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Mine skips all the time.
Put a quarter on the needle! :lol
Fogeys must remember that!
Indeed. Mine also had a 5p piece in the volume switch to hold the connection otherwise the sound cut out. I'd have been great on Apollo 13 :biggrin:
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Mine skips all the time.
Put a quarter on the needle! :lol
Fogeys must remember that!
I was an ass as a kid not taking care of my albums. Now that I'm older I look back and see that I screwed the pooch.
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I still get the CDs of the bands that I really enjoy. It's what I grew up with.
On a regular drive to work, I still listen to CDs. It's a pain for me to take out and plug the mp3 player into the car every time...
However, on a long car ride (2-3 hours) then I'll switch to MP3.
It's nice that we have a lot of options :)
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I only buy digital versions when I only want one particular song, rather than the whole album. Buying CD's from Amazon is nice, since most now have the AutoRIP feature that makes them immediately available through the Amazon cloud player. I've even found albums I bought from amazon years ago suddenly show up in my cloud player list.
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I only buy digital versions when I only want one particular song, rather than the whole album. Buying CD's from Amazon is nice, since most now have the AutoRIP feature that makes them immediately available through the Amazon cloud player. I've even found albums I bought from amazon years ago suddenly show up in my cloud player list.
Yep. Though sometimes I only get a partial album in Auto Rip.. I don't get as to why? Gah.
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I try to buy everything new so bands get more of the money, but I do love a good deal on used merchandise. I also like browsing at my local record stores because you never know what gem you'll find buried in a pile of old records. Plus it helps to keep a great business going.
This. I make a weekly trip to the two awesome record stores in Berkeley, and will usually make a purchase each week, most of the time blind or based on a quick check of online reviews. I have found some amazing bands this way that I never would have come across otherwise.
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I will buy physical media for as long as it exists (which is hopefully my entire lifetime) because there will never be any amount of arguments that will convince me that the digital version is just as good.
FLAC is the shit, yo.
to somewhat echo these comments, I still buy physical CDs whenever possible and I immediately rip to FLAC. I can't bring myself to listen to mp3 knowing it is of lesser quality, even if the step down is theoretically imperceptible. Maybe this goes back to the days when I possibly may have accidentally used Kazaa Lite to download what was probably a 15th generation, 96 kbit/s version of a song or two.
I only buy digital versions when I only want one particular song, rather than the whole album. Buying CD's from Amazon is nice, since most now have the AutoRIP feature that makes them immediately available through the Amazon cloud player. I've even found albums I bought from amazon years ago suddenly show up in my cloud player list.
Yep. Though sometimes I only get a partial album in Auto Rip.. I don't get as to why? Gah.
yeah, it's pretty cool that they went all the way back with that. But I also don't understand why not every song was included. For example I bought Symphony X's The Divine Wings . . . and every song was transferred except the title track. I thought it may have been due to the length of the song, but A Change of Seasons, The Count of Tuscany, and Raider II all made it and they are just as long or even longer. I also bought another cd of brass music, but only one of those songs was auto-ripped.
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I came to that realization in 2007 after getting my first ipod. I resisted all through high-school since i was such a contrarian, but finally gave in and immediately after I got an Ipod, I knew I was never going to listen to CD's again,
but...
I still buy a shit load of CD's and let me tell you why. Right now, nobody wants CD's so they are on Amazon for like a dollar or two. So I just order them, burn them onto my computer and throw them in a closet. Some are even a Penny. For example
(https://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x459/phoenix87x/Screenshot2013-05-02at55619AM_zpsc2e3e448.png) (https://s1182.photobucket.com/user/phoenix87x/media/Screenshot2013-05-02at55619AM_zpsc2e3e448.png.html)
I was able to get a ton of cd's from the 90's and 80's and barely paid anything, so even though I'll never listen to a physical CD, I still get a lot of use out of them.
Yes, I am able to complete so many band discographies because so many are so cheap on Amazon. It's awesome!
Y'know, PC, I'll gladly take your CDs off your hands. I won't pay you, of course, but I'll take them. :yarr :P
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If you don't listen to vinyl, you don't listen to music.
LOL.
Double LOL :lol
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Haven't read other responses in the thread, but yeah, I'm pretty much in that boat. Spotify is my friend, but when it doesn't have something I want to listen to, iTunes or Amazon is a click away. I only want a hard copy of something if it's super special, plan to get it signed or something. Never got into the vinyl thing.
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As for CDs....I still buy them for bands that I am "collecting" like Dream Theater, Spock's Beard, The Flower Kings, Transatlantic, Iron Maiden and a few others, but for the most part I usually download MP3s from Amazon and put them on my iPod, since a good 1/2 of my music listening is done at the gym. Even though I put them on my iPod, I still usually burn them to a CD too because my iPod adapter in my car has limited volume but the CDs do not.
As far as Vinyl goes, I think it's cool that a lot of young people have gotten into it in the last few years, especially since it helps to reduce piracy a little bit. And while I agree that the sonic experience is different, the idea that vinyl is in some way superior to CD is a myth (https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)). The packaging is certainly superior if you like artwork, but the audio that is on CDs is objectively superior as is the medium on which it is stored and the method with which it is delivered to the listener.
Regardless of that, the resurgence in popularity for vinyl LPs is pretty cool, I think.
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As far as Vinyl goes, I think it's cool that a lot of young people have gotten into it in the last few years, especially since it helps to reduce piracy a little bit. And while I agree that the sonic experience is different, the idea that vinyl is in some way superior to CD is a myth (https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)). The packaging is certainly superior if you like artwork, but the audio that is on CDs is objectively superior as is the medium on which it is stored and the method with which it is delivered to the listener.
I don't know about all this, but the vinyls I have almost always sound better than the CDs I have. Probably because the usually are remasters designed to sound good through respectable speakers, rather than MP3 masters designed to sound good on earbuds which I never ever use.
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However, there are also instances of the same masters being used on vinyl releases compared to CD releases. In fact, if you purchase an album produced in the last two decades on vinyl, it is likely that the master will be no different than the one used on CD. Alternative masters for vinyl cost money, and mastering is a significant cost of producing a record. The reason for different masters is that producers possibly view digital media (like CD) and analog media (like Vinyl) to be different in nature, so they might produce a different master for each medium. Some even believe that Vinyl will automatically yield a superior sound, despite the well known technical limitations and disadvantages compared to the CD.
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That's just not true. Many vinyl labels advertise that an alternative master has been done.
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With regards to the OP, Kirk, a lot of what you've posted over the last year or so has helped push me a little. Last year, I purchased a dozen or so albums on Amazon mp3. and this year, I've almost purchased the same amount.
When I buy a CD, I come home, rip it, add to my iPod, and away the CD goes into my basement. I still listen in my car, but I have an 8 minute ride to work. I typically burn my mp3 purchases onto CD and create a case and store them with my other CDs while backing everything I have up on a hard drive.
The point you've made about saving money is valid. Buying mp3s can save about $5 per album. That's a huge benefit.
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Most of the time, anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_11/182-2046383-5556301?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the%20ocean%20pelagial&sprefix=the+ocean+p%2Caps%2C209&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Athe%20ocean%20pelagial&sepatfbtf=true&tc=1367525006079
Noticed the same issue with Kindle books.
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As far as Vinyl goes, I think it's cool that a lot of young people have gotten into it in the last few years, especially since it helps to reduce piracy a little bit. And while I agree that the sonic experience is different, the idea that vinyl is in some way superior to CD is a myth (https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)). The packaging is certainly superior if you like artwork, but the audio that is on CDs is objectively superior as is the medium on which it is stored and the method with which it is delivered to the listener.
I disagree. This isn't a myth, but a lie spread by record companies to sell overpriced vinyls and even more overpriced vinyl equipment.
I don't know about all this, but the vinyls I have almost always sound better than the CDs I have. Probably because the usually are remasters designed to sound good through respectable speakers, rather than MP3 masters designed to sound good on earbuds which I never ever use.
I read this every now and then, but no one ever links an example for how bad mastering improves the sound over earbuds. All bad masters I have heard so far actually sound more annoying over my earbuds than over my speakers ???
That's just not true. Many vinyl labels advertise that an alternative master has been done.
Well, if the ads say it then it must be true...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil
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Well, on the speakers I use at home, really loud compressed releases just sound like a muddy mess at higher volumes.
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Only on rare occasions will I ever get a digital version only; I just don't trust it. I'm also a fan of colored vinyl, and other collectible aspects of owning a physical copy of the music I love.
I'm the same with digital downloads. I'll only do it if the physical copy is difficult/expensive to get, or in some cases, when the physical copy doesn't exist.
I'm really into the CT indie scene, so a lot of the music coming out is digital only because it's cheaper. It's really the only case that I'll get digital only, cause that's all there is.
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I disagree. This isn't a myth, but a lie spread by record companies to sell overpriced vinyls and even more overpriced vinyl equipment.
They may have jumped on the bandwagon in recent years, but the "vinyl is superior to cd" myth dates back to the introduction of CDs, when record companies certainly would not have wanted people to think that vinyl was superior.
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Well, on the speakers I use at home, really loud compressed releases just sound like a muddy mess at higher volumes.
...but over your earbuds, it sounds good ???
I don't disagree that bad masters sound bad over speakers, I disagree that they sound good over earbuds and that devices like the iPod (which was released in the early 2000s) are to blame for extreme dynamic compression (which started in the early 1990s, ten years before the iPod).
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And digital copies don't have artwork and booklets. They are one reason why I like CDs.
I don't really understand this popular reason for a lot of people to write-off digital music. I'm not saying you're one of those, but I see this a lot for people not liking digital music altogether.
A lot of digital albums come with .pdf files of the artwork now. Also, people listen to music over and over and over but how many read the booklet over and over and over? On the road, most of the time people just take the CD with them in one of those CD carriers and leave the packaging at home anyway. Sometimes people will cram the booklet into the CD slot but then it just gets mangled and ruined. If you're driving you can't admire the artwork either. It's the music that really matters.
Artwork is great and all but once I've gone through it once or for the first week having it nearby to read lyrics while listening and the new album is nice and fresh that's pretty much it for me with regards to the packaging.
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me7, let me put it to you this way. I have hundreds of CDs on shelves and in crates, almost all of which are less than ten years old. Most of them are in good condition, but a few of them now skip or are otherwise unusable. Some of this is my fault, for being careless--leaving 'em in the car on a hot day, or putting them in a CD player that rotates funny, or dropping them by accident. Some of CDs got scratched all by themselves, because the record company packaged them in vinyl-like slipcases that cause CDs to scratch when taken out. These aren't really anyone's fault. These are just normal accidents that occur when you're using a convenient medium; one that carry around with you and take everywhere.
Now, I have dozens of vinyl records, some of which fifty years old and handed down from parents and grandparents. These still sound remarkably good, since in most cases they were never taken more than twleve feet away from someone's turntable inside someone's house. I can't listen to them in the car, but who cares? That's what MP3s and iPods are for.
Is your CD, if you actually use it regularly, still going to be around in 50 years? Are you going to be able to hand your CD collection of to your kids or grandkids one day? Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but it matters do me. CDs are convenient, but they're not durable, whereas you really have to go out of your way to screw a vinyl record up. And frankly, in an era where digital download codes come with vinyl records, if I'm buying a physical copy of something I'm inclinde to buy the best physical copy--not the one that's just gonna take up shelfspace while I rip it and never look at it again.
Your concerns about "expensive vinyl packages", btw, are unfounded. In my cases, I pay $5-10 more for the vinyl version of something. Not a high price to pay, considering spending ANY money on a CD is basically money out the window for me.
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And digital copies don't have artwork and booklets. They are one reason why I like CDs.
I don't really understand this popular reason for a lot of people to write-off digital music. I'm not saying you're one of those, but I see this a lot for people not liking digital music altogether.
A lot of digital albums come with .pdf files of the artwork now. Also, people listen to music over and over and over but how many read the booklet over and over and over? On the road, most of the time people just take the CD with them in one of those CD carriers and leave the packaging at home anyway. Sometimes people will cram the booklet into the CD slot but then it just gets mangled and ruined. If you're driving you can't admire the artwork either. It's the music that really matters.
Artwork is great and all but once I've gone through it once or for the first week having it nearby to read lyrics while listening and the new album is nice and fresh that's pretty much it for me with regards to the packaging.
I can't speak for anyone else, but when I listen to digital music I am usually doing something else at the same time. In that sense, I'm not really listening to the music that actively, and you are correct in saying that the artwork does not matter much.
But when I listen to vinyl, all I have in front of me is the speakers, the artwork and the lyrics and I am not doing anything else. I am activly listening, and the artwork is part of the whole experience. It completes the body of work I am listening to. I would much rather have a large physical copy of something to look at when listening than a pdf in that case. I kind of relate it to the whole book vs. eBook/digital reader thing.
Honestly, I think that each medium has its place.
This kind of demonstrates what I was talking about when listening to vinyl. Complete body of work: Cover, Lyrics and notes, and the Music.
(https://d4sukq.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pR9n8a7aMj-1_ztH6UKretfrIwBOiw0tXoN02OxlyJMVI77GkxADVaBs5iTE8feKbSifeGH0vULp0agKhULk7KPMVtAjHVNjC/_MG_1052.JPG?psid=1)
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Your concerns about "expensive vinyl packages", btw, are unfounded. In my cases, I pay $5-10 more for the vinyl version of something. Not a high price to pay, considering spending ANY money on a CD is basically money out the window for me.
And vinyl has a wide variety of prices too. You might pay more for newer and current releases, but older used records can be had for pretty cheap too. I purchased a near perfect copy of Power Windows for $3. Even if the CD were the same price I would still go with the vinyl.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but when I listen to digital music I am usually doing something else at the same time. In that sense, I'm not really listening to the music that actively, and you are correct in saying that the artwork does not matter much.
But when I listen to vinyl, all I have in front of me is the speakers, the artwork and the lyrics and I am not doing anything else. I am activly listening, and the artwork is part of the whole experience. It completes the body of work I am listening to. I would much rather have a large physical copy of something to look at when listening than a pdf in that case. I kind of relate it to the whole book vs. eBook/digital reader thing.
Honestly, I think that each medium has its place.
What you describe here has nothing to do with the medium. You just chose to respect your vinyl records and to disrespect your digital records. How does the digital medium force you to do something else while you listen to it?
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Lol disrespecting a medium. He was saying how he uses each medium based on how each one most sensibly fit his listening preferences. How you managed to turn this into a respect thing is beyond me.
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Send me all your CDs.
I'll keep the good stuff and donate the rest to the library.
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Don't worry PC, Queensryche* recently announced they are releasing their new album on analog cassette. If that doesn't meet the full standards of excellence you have for musical formats I don't know what will.
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Gramophone or gtfo ph*g.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but when I listen to digital music I am usually doing something else at the same time. In that sense, I'm not really listening to the music that actively, and you are correct in saying that the artwork does not matter much.
But when I listen to vinyl, all I have in front of me is the speakers, the artwork and the lyrics and I am not doing anything else. I am activly listening, and the artwork is part of the whole experience. It completes the body of work I am listening to. I would much rather have a large physical copy of something to look at when listening than a pdf in that case. I kind of relate it to the whole book vs. eBook/digital reader thing.
Honestly, I think that each medium has its place.
What you describe here has nothing to do with the medium. You just chose to respect your vinyl records and to disrespect your digital records. How does the digital medium force you to do something else while you listen to it?
It doesn't. An argument could be made that it promotes bad listening habits, but it does not force me to do something else while listening to music.
The way I see it, digital is all about convenience. It's smaller physically, it is smaller and can be compacted in terms of bytes, it is much more portable, it is much easier to skip so-called "bad" songs or sections of songs, it is available everywhere there is an internet connection, and it is available at a mere touch of a button for instant listening. What does this all point to? Convenience and portability. So that is exactly what I use it for.
Could I listen to it the same way I do vinyl? Yeah, I could come close. But when I think about good active listening, convenience is not on my mind. So I use different forms of music for different purposes. Simple as that.
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When CDs stop being sold, I'll probably cry for a week. I love my CD collection, and I love expanding it.
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Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long CDs actually last? (If they're treated well)
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Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long CDs actually last? (If they're treated well)
I'd be surprised if there was any remotely accurate way to even begin to determine this when you consider that not all CDs are made from the exact same raw materials and also where to draw the line between "kept in near-perfect condition during typical usage" and "seldom used due to being cared for like an artifact in a museum."
As for me, I got my first CD 19 years ago and it still works perfectly.
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My copy of Who Are You is still fine, and I picked it up around 1989.
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The internet is full of streaming and mp3's, and neither is anything I want. I'll stick with CD's until everything is available in FLAC, which I guess won't ever happen. Even the mp3 shops have a really poor selection of music available, so CD's is still the only way to get pretty much everything in a decent quality.
Poor selection online? Converse is true here; online selection of digital music blows physical stores out of the water, and big retailers are getting worse and worse. And I would say 97% of albums I can buy physically online are digital downloads too.
As far as Vinyl goes, I think it's cool that a lot of young people have gotten into it in the last few years, especially since it helps to reduce piracy a little bit. And while I agree that the sonic experience is different, the idea that vinyl is in some way superior to CD is a myth (https://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)). The packaging is certainly superior if you like artwork, but the audio that is on CDs is objectively superior as is the medium on which it is stored and the method with which it is delivered to the listener.
I don't know about all this, but the vinyls I have almost always sound better than the CDs I have. Probably because the usually are remasters designed to sound good through respectable speakers, rather than MP3 masters designed to sound good on earbuds which I never ever use.
I've heard the subjective more positive record audio experience is due to audio artifacts. I guess the warm crackling sound gives the impression that the actual sound is better. Where as CDs are clean of this.
A bad analogy is tube/valve amps vs. solid state. Tubes do actually sound better, but they have that warm sound to it. And actually, SS has caught up to tube amps for many via Fractual Audio AxeFX.
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Forget everything I said earlier: I spin Edison Wax Cylinders EXCLUSIVELY.
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^This n***a :rollin
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And digital copies don't have artwork and booklets. They are one reason why I like CDs.
I don't really understand this popular reason for a lot of people to write-off digital music. I'm not saying you're one of those, but I see this a lot for people not liking digital music altogether.
A lot of digital albums come with .pdf files of the artwork now. Also, people listen to music over and over and over but how many read the booklet over and over and over?
I really haven't got acquainted with digital albums, but it seems a bit cumbersome to go to computer everytime I want to see the booklet (I don't have iPod, -Pad or any other device to listen mp3-files with).
On the road, most of the time people just take the CD with them in one of those CD carriers and leave the packaging at home anyway. Sometimes people will cram the booklet into the CD slot but then it just gets mangled and ruined. If you're driving you can't admire the artwork either. It's the music that really matters.
I don't own a car, so these doesn't matter to me. Of course I can't read booklet when riding a bike or walking, but as you said, music is still more important than artwork, I can just listen to the music. Yeah, physical copies can be damaged, but you just should be careful with them.
Artwork is great and all but once I've gone through it once or for the first week having it nearby to read lyrics while listening and the new album is nice and fresh that's pretty much it for me with regards to the packaging.
If the artwork is really well done and supports the music, it doesn't really get old for me. The best booklet I've seen is probably the original CD version of Queensr˙che's Promised Land, in which the booklet is a poster with extended picture of the totem in the front cover and lyrics on the back. I am so mad it wasn't included in the remastered version, I must buy the original some time.
Artwork really matters to me. I can do without, but I rather won't.
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I would gladly give up CD's if the digital artwork *.pdf became the standard. There are lots of bands doing it, but even more that aren't yet. That's the final straw for me. I've got hundreds of physical discs doing nothing for me only because I want the lyrics/artwork ::)
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I would gladly give up CD's if the digital artwork *.pdf became the standard. There are lots of bands doing it, but even more that aren't yet. That's the final straw for me. I've got hundreds of physical discs doing nothing for me only because I want the lyrics/artwork ::)
It also seems to vary by where you buy it. I buy all my mp3s from Amazon UK, and I think only once has it ever given me an artwork PDF. And I buy a lot.
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People that are mentioning artwork/liner notes for digital albums... where do you get these when you download something? I have seen this for zero stuff I have bought (iTunes, Amazon & Bandcamp), so what am I missing???
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I haven't bought a physical copy of an album since Systematic Chaos... Been digital downloads for me since then.
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The lack of an info file/artwork is a hurdle for me. There's about 15 albums I've bought in the past year where I couldn't name a single band member.
No idea who produced it, who wrote the songs, played the solos, where it was recorded, etc.
While it may be easy to connect to the music, it just seems harder to connect with the band.
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^This n***a :rollin
Ninja?
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The lack of an info file/artwork is a hurdle for me. There's about 15 albums I've bought in the past year where I couldn't name a single band member.
No idea who produced it, who wrote the songs, played the solos, where it was recorded, etc.
While it may be easy to connect to the music, it just seems harder to connect with the band.
A perfect way of decribing it TAC.
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The lack of an info file/artwork is a hurdle for me. There's about 15 albums I've bought in the past year where I couldn't name a single band member.
No idea who produced it, who wrote the songs, played the solos, where it was recorded, etc.
While it may be easy to connect to the music, it just seems harder to connect with the band.
Yeah, that is a bit of a problem with digital, but I think you'll see more and more artists including a PDF with the digital version of their albums. At least, I hope they do. It's a bit of a pain, but what I've done when I was really interested in obtaining that information is to seek out the artist's website.
The reason I've made the switch to mostly digital is both for the convenience and the price. Most of the time when I buy a physical CD, I end up ripping it to MP3 and then I might carry the CD in my car for a few weeks, but then I typically toss it into the CD rack and it just collects dust after that.
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People that are mentioning artwork/liner notes for digital albums... where do you get these when you download something? I have seen this for zero stuff I have bought (iTunes, Amazon & Bandcamp), so what am I missing???
On amazon, look for albums that include "[+ digital booklet]" in the description. Like this one (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012FHPXW/ref=sr_1_album_6_rd?ie=UTF8&child=B0012F6VPU&qid=1367601047&sr=1-6).
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I really want to jump to legal online purchases...but I just can't stop buying physical product even though I know it isn't practical for me at all since I pretty much rip and rebox.
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A great it idea would be for someone like Apple or Amazon to create some sort of digital file viewer mode built into their apps like iTunes or the Cloud services where you can view the lyrics/artwork while listening to the music. iTunes already downloads the cover art, why not the whole thing? Maybe something like this already exists, but I don't know about it.
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Vinyls are overrated.
The quality diffrence between a digital CD and vinyl is almost unnoticeable, while the sound quality of a vinyl decrease with time while a CD retain its quality.
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"Almost unnoticeable" would imply that humans can hear frequencies higher than 20 kHz AND that musicians actually play notes above 20 kHz. Since neither is true, vinyl has no possibility to sound better than a CD.
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Vinyls are overrated.
The quality diffrence between a digital CD and vinyl is almost unnoticeable, while the sound quality of a vinyl decrease with time while a CD retain its quality.
lol, yeah, until you go over a bump in the car stereo or it winds up in a CD player that's not rotating properly.
Vinyl sound quality doesn't really decrease, btw. It can, especially if you never change your needle or you stack bricks on top of your LPs, but it shouldn't. Like I said earlier, I have LPs printed in the 60s and 70s that still sound great.
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So... basically what you mean is that if you take care of your vinyl, they should be fine barring any unforeseen calamities that are mostly out of your control?
So, kinda like CD's then?
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I have a way easier time keeping vinyls from calamity then I do CDs.
Also, if that's what you got from my post, you can't read :P
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People can't hear above 20kHz but the presence adds something in the mix that could be heard.
That being said, with the loudness wars and albums consistently being brickwalled in the mixing stage, CDs don't really sound as good as they could. Digital distortion doesn't sound as pleasing as "warm" analog distortion.
On topic, I still buy CDs, albeit mostly used ones. It's one way I use to find new artists/bands (along with DTF and YT).
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I have a way easier time keeping vinyls from calamity then I do CDs.
Also, if that's what you got from my post, you can't read :P
Well that's certainly a tactful way of discussing.
I think the biggest problem with this post...
lol, yeah, until you go over a bump in the car stereo or it winds up in a CD player that's not rotating properly.
Vinyl sound quality doesn't really decrease, btw. It can, especially if you never change your needle or you stack bricks on top of your LPs, but it shouldn't. Like I said earlier, I have LPs printed in the 60s and 70s that still sound great.
...is how blatantly lopsided your portrayal of real-life conditions and likelihood were. Back in 2007, I drove a '96 Saturn with a factory CD player and never had any issues with bumps causing skipping. The only times I had a problem with skipping was when it involved CD players that were in the kitchen at food joints I worked at since that likely involved people putting CDs in them which were handled with hands that were greasy or slightly soiled from having bits of food on 'em if they had recently bussed a table or washed dishes and hadn't had a chance to fully wash their hands. Wet hands could also be an issue.
Aside from these factors, those CD players also got knocked around a lot since they were usually on crowded shelves and got repositioned numerous times each day. As far as home CD players go, I have a 50-disc changer I got back in '98 that still works like a charm because it was treated properly.
On the other hand, your argument for vinyl involves saying they don't really decrease in sound quality but CDs stay in near-perfect shape as well if you handle them the same way these vinyl records you mentioned from the '60s were. I think there are some factors that you may not have considered:
1. Due to their portability, CDs are placed in harm's way far more than vinyl based on the average listener's usage habits since their small size makes them able to be stored in large CD booklets where their clarity can be compromised through the same friction you cited in your bricks-stacked-on-top-of-vinyls comment.
2. Due to the fragility of record players, people innately know you have to be careful with them whereas CD players generally have much stronger housing which may give people the incorrect impression that the sensitive electronics won't be damaged by drops, bumps, etc. that don't do any noticeable damage to the exterior.
3. As of the 90s, the majority of people still buying vinyl were just collectors in a niche group and collectors obviously take far better care of their shit than the average joe. Also, the same people who used to let their vinyl records fall apart through mishandling were then becoming part of the CD crowd and likely continued to handle their CDs improperly which would somewhat contribute to whatever small level of negative perceptions people may have had about the durability of a CD.
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Digital distortion doesn't sound as pleasing as "warm" analog distortion.
Bingo. I'll take analog over digital EVERY time. Vinyl...CD...doesn't matter to me.
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Well that's certainly a tactful way of discussing.
Why should I care about tact when people are going to put words in my mouth anyway?
...is how blatantly lopsided your portrayal of real-life conditions and likelihood were. Back in 2007, I drove a '96 Saturn with a factory CD player and never had any issues with bumps causing skipping.
Let me put it this way. Bringing an MP3 player into my car almost never ends in me accidently destroying my music. Bringing a bunch of CDs in did. So, why bother with the CD? What do you need it for?
1. Due to their portability, CDs are placed in harm's way far more than vinyl
Right. And considering I get MP3 downloads with every new vinyl I've ever bought almost, who needs CDs anymore?
2. Due to the fragility of record players, people innately know you have to be careful with them whereas CD players generally have much stronger housing which may give people the incorrect impression that the sensitive electronics won't be damaged by drops, bumps, etc. that don't do any noticeable damage to the exterior.
Yeah, but again, who needs a fragile physical medium that's convenient to carry around with you when there's MP3 players?
Sorry, I just don't see why I should buy CDs anymore. I'm fine buying digital music for computers, ipods, cars, and work, and I'm fine buying vinyls and BluRays for home. CDs just have no place in my listening habits anymore.
It's like, anything CDs can do, one of the other mediums can do better.
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Hey, remember when portable CD players had the selling feature of an "X-second buffer" to take care of skipping during bumpy activities? Portable tape players had "anti-rolling" or something but I can't remember what that even is.
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I ruined so many CDs on my bus rides to high school. I always had the cheapest portable CD players around, and they'd skip like crazy every time we went over bumps.
I also had all my CDs stored in those CD binders, which apparently, in retrospect, is bad for them.
Thankfully I got most my CDs ripped and on a hard-drive before they got too bad.
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Well that's certainly a tactful way of discussing.
Why should I care about tact when people are going to put words in my mouth anyway?
...is how blatantly lopsided your portrayal of real-life conditions and likelihood were. Back in 2007, I drove a '96 Saturn with a factory CD player and never had any issues with bumps causing skipping.
Let me put it this way. Bringing an MP3 player into my car almost never ends in me accidently destroying my music. Bringing a bunch of CDs in did. So, why bother with the CD? What do you need it for?
1. Due to their portability, CDs are placed in harm's way far more than vinyl
Right. And considering I get MP3 downloads with every new vinyl I've ever bought almost, who needs CDs anymore?
2. Due to the fragility of record players, people innately know you have to be careful with them whereas CD players generally have much stronger housing which may give people the incorrect impression that the sensitive electronics won't be damaged by drops, bumps, etc. that don't do any noticeable damage to the exterior.
Yeah, but again, who needs a fragile physical medium that's convenient to carry around with you when there's MP3 players?
Sorry, I just don't see why I should buy CDs anymore. I'm fine buying digital music for computers, ipods, cars, and work, and I'm fine buying vinyls and BluRays for home. CDs just have no place in my listening habits anymore.
It's like, anything CDs can do, one of the other mediums can do better.
The posts of yours I quoted were these:
Vinyls are overrated.
The quality diffrence between a digital CD and vinyl is almost unnoticeable, while the sound quality of a vinyl decrease with time while a CD retain its quality.
[1]lol, yeah, until you go over a bump in the car stereo or it winds up in a CD player that's not rotating properly.
Vinyl sound quality doesn't really decrease, btw. It can, especially if you never change your needle or you stack bricks on top of your LPs, but it shouldn't. Like I said earlier, I have LPs printed in the 60s and 70s that still sound great.
[2]I have a way easier time keeping vinyls from calamity then I do CDs.
Also, if that's what you got from my post, you can't read :P
[1] You're clearly addressing a CD vs. vinyl comment.
[2] Same thing again.
I was refuting your CD vs. vinyl arguing points. You never mentioned, or even vaguely alluded to mp3s, at any point in those posts. For someone insulting the reading ability of others, you certainly aren't raising the bar yourself.
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CDs are really just the cassettes of modern day. A transitional medium until the next one came around. Vinyls, let's be honest, stick around mostly because they were the first and thus have a lot of nostalgia value to it.
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Floyd, I have no idea what you're trying to say, or what I'm doing that your taking issue with. Sorry.
CDs are really just the cassettes of modern day. A transitional medium until the next one came around. Vinyls, let's be honest, stick around mostly because they were the first and thus have a lot of nostalgia value to it.
Thankfully it'll be a golden vinyl record which represents music if either Voyager is ever intercepted, not some crappy cassette or CD :P
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What's so bad about skipping CDs? Sure it interrupts the playback, but isn't it just the laser being bumped out of position by a jolt? Nothing actually comes into contact with the disc, therefore I don't understand why anyone would imply skipping damages them. My first portable CD player back in the 90's skipped all the time, but those discs still play back perfectly for me to this day.
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Regarding FLAC vs mp3, I neither have the equipment nor probably the hearing left to detect the minute distortion a 320kbps mp3 introduces to the signal. I focus on the music, such tiny stuff is peanuts compared to some other music I listen to from the 70s that has horrendous recording.
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Sorry PC, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. I just meant that I thought your argument about how vinyls were (seemingly) more durable than CDs seemed quite out of touch with reality since you exaggerated how much a car's CD player skips and made vinyls out to be more durable than CDs even though that matter has way more to do with the fact that CDs' portability means they're being used on the go during everyday travel unlike vinyls which are mostly relegated to casual listening at home and are thusly less subjected to everyday wear and tear.
In turn, you made that into a CD vs. mp3 thing which I wasn't even implying at any point.
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Oh, I get that, and I agree with you. I don't mean to be comparing CDs vs. MP3s, but I'm just saying, there's not much room in my own listening for them. I do like to have a physical copy of things, but I'd rather have the vinyl or the 5.1 audio if available. When it comes to something I'd use "on the go", CDs used to be the go-to but now not so much. CDs are a good middle-ground between convenience and being a good physical medium, but they just fall short of other existing mediums in both areas. MP3s are more convenient and nothing can beat the sound of 5.1 audio or the packaging of vinyl.
So it's not that I don't like CDs or something. I still do look on my CD collection with some pride. But as time goes by I find that a CD is my least desirable version of something to own.
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Remember when people used to have libraries in their homes? Do you think that they actually READ *ALL* those books? I don't believe they did. But I believe the point of having a library, is that when the fancy strikes you to read a certain book, you don't have to go looking for it. All you have to do is pull it off the shelf.
I look at my CD collection the same way. To be honest, I own so many freakin CD's that there are some that I have never even gotten around to listening to. But if I ever have a wild hair and just get curious as to what Robin Zander's solo album sounded like...I don't have to do a search. It's right there on the shelf any time I get the fancy. (I haven't yet...but I'm sure I will someday)
(and don't get stuck on Robin Zander people....it's a red herring...it doesn't really matter what CD it is)
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I own a library that I'll never read all of and a CD collection I'll never listen to all of again. Switching to digital formats just means I have more books than I can possibly read on my Nook and several gigabytes of music to still get around to. :lol
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Remember when people used to have libraries in their homes? Do you think that they actually READ *ALL* those books? I don't believe they did. But I believe the point of having a library, is that when the fancy strikes you to read a certain book, you don't have to go looking for it. All you have to do is pull it off the shelf.
I look at my CD collection the same way. To be honest, I own so many freakin CD's that there are some that I have never even gotten around to listening to. But if I ever have a wild hair and just get curious as to what Robin Zander's solo album sounded like...I don't have to do a search. It's right there on the shelf any time I get the fancy. (I haven't yet...but I'm sure I will someday)
(and don't get stuck on Robin Zander people....it's a red herring...it doesn't really matter what CD it is)
Yes. Exactly. I'm the same way.