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General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: rumborak on January 10, 2013, 07:43:42 PM
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Is it just me, or have they completely spiraled out of control? I was just looking at the tickets for the Steven Wilson show in Boston, and the cheapest ticket goes for $78. WTF? Even more bizarrely, a front row ticket goes for $346.
I (unwittingly) paid $100 the other day for a Rush ticket and afterward concluded that I won't go to another show of theirs because I don't think I enjoy them enough to pay $100. And mind you, I was at the far back end of Boston's main basketball stadium.
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(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2VJ4npOZERs/R1BwlKVlzOI/AAAAAAAAADo/H_2TvEFPYfE/s400/ticketbastard_logo-751489.gif)
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I don't know why USA's or maybe even Europe's ticket price goes that high but I have to say something happened at Turkey too. Price's been going crazy lately, especially for the bigger venues.
Last time for Anathema I paid 45 TL, it's about 25$. But for this time (and just for Daniel and Vincent, not the whole band), again for the same place I paid 80 TL, it's about 50$. And between these two dates there were not even 1 year break. Don't know what's going on but it seems I can't go many concerts this year.
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Monetary compensation making up for an industry-wide lack of album sales?
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I understand the $346 part, but the expensive cheap seats are bullshit. Although I have to wonder, is that actually that expensive by Boston standards?
I would hope that with everybody adopting the VIP package model that the non-VIP seats would remain affordable. Down here they've mostly stayed reasonable (for cheapos, at least). Good seats for the Clockwork Angels tour were about $250, but our seats ran $43. While I certainly prefer the good ole days when every seat in the house was $14, I've done pretty well with the the new model.
As for why, I suspect that as they've changed business models, first from 1 price for all seats to tiered pricing, and then to the current VIP system, they've come to realize that the market will support more than they'd been asking. What the scalpers have been arguing all along is that the face for a ticket was severely undervalued. Sucks, but appears to be true. Add to that the changing business model of the music industry. Artists are relying on tours to make their money. Stands to reason that they might want a little more. Corporate sponsorship certainly doesn't help from our POV. Lastly, because of the number of seats that get held back for various fucktards, contest winners and AMEX cardmembers, the supply of seats is considerably smaller. While most of those seats are still paid for by somebody, it does drive up demand for the seats they actually do release to the public.
And TM has their fair share of problems, but they don't set ticket prices.
Monetary compensation making up for an industry-wide lack of album sales?
Album and ticket sales are two different animals. For one thing, I believe sales are still quite good. However, any decrease just means the artist gets less and has to recoup from touring. The division seems to be that the label gets album money and the artist gets ticket money.
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I have no idea what in the hell happened to ticket prices, but it's why I don't go to concerts anymore.
First concert I ever saw was in 1977. Styx: The Grand Illusion. It cost $5.00. Yep, five dollars, General Admission.
Later that same year I saw Emerson, Lake & Palmer on their Works tour. $9.00. It was a lot of money, but heck, they were touring with an orchestra and everything, so of course it would cost more. Plus, it was in an auditorium, Reserved Seating.
Nowadays, you have to save for weeks or months to buy a concert ticket, and a lot of that money doesn't even go to the band or the venue. The promoter deserves a cut, but fuck TicketBastard. That still doesn't explain it, though. Everything costs more than it did in the 70's, but 50 or 60 times as much?
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Monetary compensation making up for an industry-wide lack of album sales?
Could be. I remember way back, like in 2007 or something, a friend of my brother's went to see Beyonce for like $300-400. I couldn't believe it when I heard it.
It does concern me a bit. I mean I don't care much about people downloading artist's records, but if skyrocketing ticket prices leads to a similar drop in people going to concerts, I fear for music in general.
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I think those prices like 250-500$ are normal for the artists like Beyonce, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rihanna...etc. This is just popular culture. The people they target don't go the concert just for listening music. This is what can be called entertainment sector. Fake, expensive and daily. You can add groups like U2, Coldplay, Metallica, Evanescence to this category. Even they do their music, just music they unfortunately belong to the popular culture. And that means more money even their shows do not deserve that.
I paid 275$ 2 years ago for Metallica. Not even VIP status. Yeah I enjoyed but still questioned the ticket price.
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Is it just me, or have they completely spiraled out of control? I was just looking at the tickets for the Steven Wilson show in Boston, and the cheapest ticket goes for $78. WTF? Even more bizarrely, a front row ticket goes for $346.
Uh, those are scalper prices. Looks like Mr. Wilson is doing surprisingly well by his fans:
Steven Wilson
Berklee Performance Center, 8:00 p.m.$27.50, $35, $45, reserved seating
As an aside, now that they actually have a wee bit of competition, I've interestingly come to realize that TM really does beat the everlasting shit out the smaller outfits. The little guys can't match the service, but match all of the service fees because they can. What people fail to realize is that TM's customers aren't the fans but the promoters/venues. They don't have to compete for your business. If they win the contract to ticket a venue, they'll have it anyway, and this applies to the startups just the same.
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I think the exorbitant prices are mostly restricted to TicketBastard and the larger bands/venues. Fortunately, my area (L.A.) has a lot of little clubs where the competition tends to drive down prices to the point of being pretty reasonable. I might not be able to see Rush or Iron Maiden at the Staples Center, but I can see Opeth, Devin Townsend etc. at the smaller venues and not have my wallet sucked dry.
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Is it just me, or have they completely spiraled out of control? I was just looking at the tickets for the Steven Wilson show in Boston, and the cheapest ticket goes for $78. WTF? Even more bizarrely, a front row ticket goes for $346.
I (unwittingly) paid $100 the other day for a Rush ticket and afterward concluded that I won't go to another show of theirs because I don't think I enjoy them enough to pay $100. And mind you, I was at the far back end of Boston's main basketball stadium.
How full was the venue at those events? Either the price justified it due to demand, or it is just an aberration and prices will come down when people stop coming.
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What annoys me is that tickets don't even seem to go on sale before they're hiked up in price.
I've just bought a ticket to see Springsteen this summer - the major ticket agencies sold out in nanoseconds, but all the premier ticket agencies had tickets, at unbelievable prices. The premier agencies are owned by the major agencies, of course. It makes you wonder how many tickets Ticketba$tard put on their main site at face value and how many they put straight on GetMeIn.
The artist only gets their percentage of the face value of the ticket, so it's the ticket agents that are to blame, not the artists or promoters.
I finally found a ticket, but for Coventry, not Wembley.
The thing is, people pay these prices. if you look at the recent Rolling Stones shows, I suspect very few Stones fans paid those prices and the venue was full of Corporate Hospitality types. As Mr Burns said, high ticket prices ensure a health mix of the rich and the stupid.
What gets me is that if tickets to football matches were sold in this way, there'd be a public outcry. Because it's just rock n' roll, no one cares.
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Is it just me, or have they completely spiraled out of control? I was just looking at the tickets for the Steven Wilson show in Boston, and the cheapest ticket goes for $78. WTF? Even more bizarrely, a front row ticket goes for $346.
Uh, those are scalper prices. Looks like Mr. Wilson is doing surprisingly well by his fans:
Steven Wilson
Berklee Performance Center, 8:00 p.m.$27.50, $35, $45, reserved seating
Was gonna suggest that. I think $38 got us the best Philly seats.
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Basic economics of supply and demand (with a mix of covering fixed and variable costs + desired markup) will determine the face value that promoters/bands put on the ticket. TM/whoever have service charges that have been around forever, so that's really nothing new. It's when the ticket agencies sell to their other brand, and then add enormous markups (as The Curious Orange stated).
Here's my take.... the music industry is so fragmented on how bands establish themselves, that new/upcoming bands can't tour anything outside small clubs. Thus, the arena/stadium sized concerts are only done by bands that are established. Established bands mean an established (and more than likely older) fan base - who have money. Not many teenagers going to a Stones concert, unless it's with their parent(s). Kids that go to Taylor Swift are doing so with their parents' money. For the most part, I believe it's parents that are paying those prices, not teenagers like when us fogey's were, and only had $5 or $10 to spend on a concert. Because we (fogeys) know the bliss of the concert experience, we're willing to help our kids get that experience.
Which brings me back to my original point. Supply and demand will always dictate the appropriate market price for anything.
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Here in Sweden it depends almost 100% on the venue where the concert is held.
For example, smaller venues normally have ticket fees around 30 dollars. This is pretty cheap, and for example I got to see two concerts with: Between the Buried and Me/Periphery/The Safety Fire, and the second had Katatonia/Alcest/Junius. Both these shows cost 30 dollars and had 3 bands, at both times I really liked all 3 bands.
But the biggest venue here is a soccer-stadium which has a capacity of maybe 60 000 people, and indoors we have an icehockey-venue which takes maybe 10 000 people. Whenever there's a concert at these two venues you're looking at maybe 90-120 dollars for a ticket, depending on where you want to stand/sit etc.
I don't know if it's similar in the states, but that's pretty much how it works here.
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I live in a small/mid-sized Finnish town and saw Amorphis at the local club for 20 € last month and the price for the Sonata Arctica tickets in October was almost 30 €, so I think it depends on the venue and the popularity of the artist - the tickets for arena/ice hall shows in Helsinki are usually over 50 €. (for Americans, you can see the ratio between euro and dollar here, for example: https://www.x-rates.com/calculator/?from=EUR&to=USD&amount=1)
Due to my young age I haven't been to loads of gigs yet, but I know the ticket prices have definitely gone up in Finland, especially when compared to the markka era (pre-2002): in the heyday of Stratovarius you could see them at the Tavastia club for 60 FIM (https://historia.tavastia.fi/tapahtuma/16986), which is approximately 10 €, but although their popularity nowadays isn't even nearly as big as in the late 90s, you had to pay 27 € to see them at that same venue in 2011 (https://historia.tavastia.fi/tapahtuma/22856).
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Where is Steven Wilson playing where there are "seats"?
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$78? That would be a great price here! You're lucky to get a nosebleed for under $100 in this country.
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Basic economics of supply and demand (with a mix of covering fixed and variable costs + desired markup) will determine the face value that promoters/bands put on the ticket. TM/whoever have service charges that have been around forever, so that's really nothing new. It's when the ticket agencies sell to their other brand, and then add enormous markups (as The Curious Orange stated).
Here's my take.... the music industry is so fragmented on how bands establish themselves, that new/upcoming bands can't tour anything outside small clubs. Thus, the arena/stadium sized concerts are only done by bands that are established. Established bands mean an established (and more than likely older) fan base - who have money. Not many teenagers going to a Stones concert, unless it's with their parent(s). Kids that go to Taylor Swift are doing so with their parents' money. For the most part, I believe it's parents that are paying those prices, not teenagers like when us fogey's were, and only had $5 or $10 to spend on a concert. Because we (fogeys) know the bliss of the concert experience, we're willing to help our kids get that experience.
Which brings me back to my original point. Supply and demand will always dictate the appropriate market price for anything.
That makes a ton of sense. It's also kinda sad. I'd love for my kids to have that kind of experience, but we just don't have the cash. If I don't have a couple hundred bucks to go see a concert, I'm sure not going to buy tickets for my kids to go see one. My son has gone to a few, but he paid for the tickets (he's old enough to work). It was an outdoor gig and it rained most of the day, plus he got burned on the tickets (he picked them up, then two of the three others never paid him back) so that pretty much soured him on the concert experience. Which again is sad. It's his money, but I'd still rather not see him spending hundreds of bucks on concerts, so I'm kinda glad he doesn't.
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I've pretty much just stopped going to concerts that aren't for smaller bands, or aren't at mid-sized local venues. In the past few years the most I payed for a ticket was about $50 when I went to go see Jeff Mangum, and had it not been someone that awesome I definitely wouldn't have paid that price. I live in Connecticut, and there aren't many great venues here so I have to go to NYC, where there are a lot of mid-sized venues with extremely reasonable prices ($10-$30), to see most of the good stuff, so for me most of the expenses to go see I band that want to see comes in the form of getting there.
I think it's sad that I can't go see the Who or Bruce or Ringo because the scalper prices are absolutely ridiculous (being a broke college student doesn't help either). It's just how it is now, and we'll have to deal with it until something changes, if it ever does.
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The most I’ve ever spent on tickets is $50, to see Transatlantic, and that was in a small venue. Most of the bands I see play small to mid-sized venues, and I usually wind up paying anywhere from $12-40 for it. But usually I can get nosebleeds in huge venues for around the same price, if something like Iron Maiden comes around (who I probably won’t be seeing anymore, for reasons similar to what rumby’s going through with Rush).
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It's worrying. When I first saw DT about 7 years ago it was around £25, when I saw them last year after ticket handling fees it was £50. I keep going to shows of bands I love (and put them on my credit card if I don't have the cash) as those are experiences I might never be able to have again, and for me it's well worth it in terms of how much I enjoy it, how much it makes me feel. I'd rather spend money on that than anything else... but I don't go to small shows of bands I'm not into really, and I wouldn't pay more than a fiver to go and see a band I didn't know.
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What annoys me is that tickets don't even seem to go on sale before they're hiked up in price.
I've just bought a ticket to see Springsteen this summer - the major ticket agencies sold out in nanoseconds, but all the premier ticket agencies had tickets, at unbelievable prices. The premier agencies are owned by the major agencies, of course. It makes you wonder how many tickets Ticketba$tard put on their main site at face value and how many they put straight on GetMeIn.
Keep in mind that those agencies are selling tickets on spec. Most of the seats they list they don't actually have yet. They're betting that they'll be able to score the seats that they sell at a price that'll be profitable. Occasionally they will get burned (or more correctly, their buyers will).
As for Springsteen selling out in nanoseconds, that's because they held back 90% of the tickets for people who are better connected than you, and it's not the scalpers. They buy the tickets from those people.
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Rumbo, where is Rush playing? Are they coming back to the area? I hadn't seen anything listed.
I also conpemplated seeing them in September at the Garden but the seats were over $100 for shitty seats way back in the arena.
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I don't know about everyone else, but tickets for me are usually around $20-30
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Where do you live?
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Sioux Falls but I go to Minneapolis for concerts. I am moving to Tampa soon though so prices nay change I suppose.
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Where I live, (NC triangle) there's a huge number of clubs and venues that host smaller bands. I usually go with my dad and it costs us anywhere from 5 to 30 dollars a ticket depending on the band we see. Local bands go for around 5-15 bucks and they're usually very good. I saw fair to midland, dead letter circus for like 18 bucks a ticket. Bands like Opeth are more expensive, around 26, 30 USD
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I think those prices like 250-500$ are normal for the artists like Beyonce, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rihanna...etc. This is just popular culture. The people they target don't go the concert just for listening music. This is what can be called entertainment sector. Fake, expensive and daily. You can add groups like U2, Coldplay, Metallica, Evanescence to this category. Even they do their music, just music they unfortunately belong to the popular culture. And that means more money even their shows do not deserve that.
I paid 275$ 2 years ago for Metallica. Not even VIP status. Yeah I enjoyed but still questioned the ticket price.
I agree. I paid 50 TL for Ian Anderson and it kicked ass.
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I remember being 16 and paying $116 for Metallica. I mean it was a great show, The Sword was alright, Machine Head was awesome, Metallica put on a performance that will be a memory of mine forever, but god $116 :sadpanda:
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Rumbo, where is Rush playing? Are they coming back to the area? I hadn't seen anything listed.
I also conpemplated seeing them in September at the Garden but the seats were over $100 for shitty seats way back in the arena.
I think he is talking about the same show. No dates yet for the summer leg.
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Rumbo, where is Rush playing? Are they coming back to the area? I hadn't seen anything listed.
I also conpemplated seeing them in September at the Garden but the seats were over $100 for shitty seats way back in the arena.
I think he is talking about the same show. No dates yet for the summer leg.
OK. The OP states "the other day".
Fingers crossed for Great Woods. The leaked dates have them at Mohegan Sun in April, right?
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I think the production cost of touring has also risen dramatically in the past 10 years. Also the fact that a lot of concerts are now incorporating more stage production than previously popular.
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just curious, since we're talking about it: what were the cheapest DT tickets on the last tour where you all were? Back last year, when I was living in Singapore, the cheapest seats were about 100USD, in a theater that probably seated 1500. Seemed pretty expensive to me, but I didn't look up the ticket prices for other cities or countries. That is way more than I had paid when I have seen them in the US on previous tours (but I hadn't seen them since the Octavarium tour just because the timing and the venues didn't work out for me, so I could just be out of date on DT prices.)
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Cheap DT seats usually run $40-$50 here. They always play the same 5k seat theater and sell about 1500.
I imagine taking their production to Singapore is pretty costly. Wonder if they take the whole show, or do a scaled down gig.
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When I saw Dream Theater last summer, tickets were $45 for seats that weren't nosebleeds, but they weren't awful either. The show was so good that it was worth the epic drive and ticket prices.
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When I saw Dream Theater last summer, tickets were $45 for seats that weren't nosebleeds, but they weren't awful either. The show was so good that it was worth the epic drive and ticket prices.
That's about what I paid when I saw them in October 2011. I just sometimes remember seeing bills with three bands on them back in the day for 10 dollars and kind of wince sometimes. :lol
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There is a venue in CT called the Oakdale. It is a 4000ish seat venue, with a lobby that holds 1000. It cost 40 dollars to see Steel Panther in the lobby! DT was 45 in the main hall 4 years ago.
In 2006 I saw Tom Petty in the lawn for $23. In 2010 in was $40.
I don't go to concerts anymore because of how much they cost. Once you pay the ticket fee... you get fucked up the ass by about 4 different "convenience fees". Those piss me off more than anything. I'm paying you more because you implemented a process to eliminate jobs which is already saving you money. Why don't you cut off one of my testicles while your at it.
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I've been thinking about how the venue effects the cost. Our shed seats 18.5 and AAC (where the Stars and Mavericks play) is a fancy-ass arena with 21k seats. Shows at the AAC are always the top tier acts, Madonna, Metallica, U2, etc., and always sell well. A lot of the bands I'll see play Starplex. That's where Maiden and Rush (before this tour) always play, along with all of your package type shows. Since the lawn almost never sells out, it's pretty common to see them selling those seats for $20 the week of the show. Since there are often dirt cheap lawn seats for sale, that lowers the cost of everything else accordingly.
I suppose the moral of the story is that if you know for a fact you're going to sell 21000 seats, then why wouldn't you sell them for as much as you can get? Those are the shows that play the nicest, newest venues. If you know you've got more seats than fans in a market, you play cheaper digs and make your tickets more affordable to the masses.
As an aside, Roger Waters was the most expensive show I've seen. Lowers for the Dallas show were $125+TTL. We paid $200 for 10th row center in Tulsa. My thought at the time was that while I'd prefer to not have to spend that much money, the fact is that if anybody deserves it more than Roger, I'm not sure who it would be. Given the insane amount of enjoyment and pleasure the man's brought to me over the years, I consider the $350 he's gotten out of me this decade to be fine price to pay.
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Cheap DT seats usually run $40-$50 here. They always play the same 5k seat theater and sell about 1500.
I imagine taking their production to Singapore is pretty costly. Wonder if they take the whole show, or do a scaled down gig.
Reminds me, there were technical problems at the show. Their earpieces or monitor speakers (I don't remember which) weren't working-- they couldn't hear themselves, so they stopped the show, and rearranged it so they did the acoustic set of Silent Man and BTS while they fixed the problem. I was worried they were going to have to shorten the whole set, but in the end we got every song. I think the setlist was just as long as on the US tour. We got all the animations that I think I saw on youtube and the boards from the US tour. So if they scaled anything back, it wasn't apparent.
So anyway, we almost got a short show for those expensive prices. I had to sit in the upper balcony because I just wasn't going to pay almost $200, as much as I love them.
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It's worrying. When I first saw DT about 7 years ago it was around £25, when I saw them last year after ticket handling fees it was £50. I keep going to shows of bands I love (and put them on my credit card if I don't have the cash) as those are experiences I might never be able to have again, and for me it's well worth it in terms of how much I enjoy it, how much it makes me feel. I'd rather spend money on that than anything else... but I don't go to small shows of bands I'm not into really, and I wouldn't pay more than a fiver to go and see a band I didn't know.
This. In my country ticket prices have started to rise from some 35 € for the biggest acts like Iron Maiden, Metallica and Rammstein to well over 50 € now but still the venues are visited. Whoever wants to attend a concert, saves money they'd be spending on cigarettes and drinks and enjoys Rammstein's infernal pyro show (which almost burnt my eyebrows). The ones who don't go to gigs have spent all their money on getting drunk every Friday and Saturday in parks on benches with their friends.
I don't smoke and don't spend a shitload of money on drinks when I go out so I usually have money for concerts.....
Not saying that the rest of you is spending concert money on booze, just adding my experience ;)