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General => Movies and TV => Topic started by: ResultsMayVary on October 30, 2012, 02:11:01 PM
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Click here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/disney-says-it-is-buying-star-wars-maker-lucasfilm-for-405-billion-from-george-lucas/2012/10/30/484eb5ae-22cc-11e2-92f8-7f9c4daf276a_story.html)
LOS ANGELES — Disney says it is buying ‘Star Wars’ maker Lucasfilm for $4.05 billion from George Lucas.
There's not too much information out there on it yet, but we can expect Star Wars episode 7 in 2015, via Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/30/disney-lucas-idUSL3E8LU5AC20121030).
"Star Wars" episode seven will come out in 2015, Disney says.
And the follow-up tweet saying its not a joke:
The Star Wars/Disney news comes from a press release distributed by BusinessWire, for those wondering if this is a joke. It's not.
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Everything about this is wrong and horrible. Lucasfilm, for all its many many many flaws, basically let the fandom for the movies do as it pleased.
I can't wait until the RedLetterMedia Star Wars reviews are taken down. :/
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Yea, I'm not too big on the idea, either. They should have just let it go at this point.
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Old Georgie sold out?
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Star Wars extended universe going non-canon in 10, 9, 8...
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Old Georgie sold out?
Yup.
Dude is trying to brutally beat his legacy to death and then fart on its corpse.
Remember when Lucas founded American Zoetrope with Francis Ford Coppola and wanted to fight the system?
Now he's selling Star Wars.... STAR WARS to Disney.
The only good thing is that Disney might see the money to be made in selling a restored copy of the original trilogy and do so.
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hm.
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Man am I happy to be much more of a Trekkie than a SW fan. Star Trek had some not-so-stellar episodes and movies, but somehow the reverence for Gene Roddenberry kept people from overtly shitting on the franchise.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
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:theydonothing:
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
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Uh...
As a lifelong Star Wars fan (although I gave up all hope after the changes to the Blu Rays), this is just weird as hell. Disney wasn't just content to engulf Marvel in its maw, I guess. And a new movie? whaaaaat... just what.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
I'm sorry...but...THIS!
This is the greatest thing that could have possibly happened, and the ONLY hope for decent SW story lines.
I don't get it. Fans bitch because they wish Lucas would let someone else make the movies...and then bitch when that's exactly what happens.
This might save Star Wars. With any luck at all...they'll remake the prequels.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
Yup. To put it into perspective, look at how the Marvel stuff is being handled. Few complaints there.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
So many fans are heavily invested in the extended universe, which primarily takes place after the original trilogy. For years it was all people had and was widely embraced to help promote the franchise. I can't imagine they're going to want to follow what has been written before if they do a sequel trilogy. If they don't, they'll effectively blow up the extended universe that so many diehard fans have invested in for the last twenty years. I don't think that's going to make many of their biggest fans happy, or the people invested in licensing on the extended universe.
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With Disney calling the shots we got Green Lantern and Tron Legacy. I actually liked Tron Legacy but it could have been so much better.
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This is just... just... I am going to have to come back to this.
Wait... weren't they working on some sort of live action TV series??
Man am I happy to be much more of a Trekkie than a SW fan. Star Trek had some not-so-stellar episodes and movies, but somehow the reverence for Gene Roddenberry kept people from overtly shitting on the franchise.
I don't know if it had much to do with Gene. Of course he established the groundwork, but consider Meyer, Bennett, Nimoy, and the rest who shaped Trek films 2-6 did so without Gene's input or worship. I don't think Meyer ever really met with him, at least on any sort of creative level. (I don't know the Trek history beyond that).
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With Disney calling the shots we got Green Lantern and Tron Legacy. I actually liked Tron Legacy but it could have been so much better.
And The Avengers, and all the films leading up to it.
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Maybe we'll finally get the OT on DVD/Blu-ray.
Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
So many fans are heavily invested in the extended universe, which primarily takes place after the original trilogy. For years it was all people had and was widely embraced to help promote the franchise. I can't imagine they're going to want to follow what has been written before if they do a sequel trilogy. If they don't, they'll effectively blow up the extended universe that so many diehard fans have invested in for the last twenty years. I don't think that's going to make many of their biggest fans happy, or the people invested in licensing on the extended universe.
Sucks for them, but many of the EU stories are not well done and entire story arcs are jagged as hell. I've always found it silly to consider anything there as canon considering you have dozens of different authors with dozens of different ideas.
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This is just... just... I am going to have to come back to this.
I double that.......wat in the actual name of everything that is holy?
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With Disney calling the shots we got Green Lantern and Tron Legacy. I actually liked Tron Legacy but it could have been so much better.
And The Avengers, and all the films leading up to it.
I feel stupid asking this, but what did Disney even have to do with Green Lantern? As far as I'm aware Disney owns Marvel while WB owns DC.
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Yeah, I'm pretty cool with this. Lucas really trashed most of the SW legacy. None of us had any hope of him ever making it better, and Disney might. What's the worst thing that could happen, they make another TPM?
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Sucks for them, but many of the EU stories are not well done and entire story arcs are jagged as hell. I've always found it silly to consider anything there as canon considering you have dozens of different authors with dozens of different ideas.
It's more that it's been sold to them as canon or close to canon for so long. That makes a big difference in many people's eyes, and is why the Star Wars licensed products tended to be more popular than other properties, like Star Trek books. It set the Star Wars franchise apart in people's minds. I can see how a lot of fans would take a move of wiping out the extended universe as a betrayal.
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With Disney calling the shots we got Green Lantern and Tron Legacy. I actually liked Tron Legacy but it could have been so much better.
Okay, but with Lucas calling the shots, we got:
-"But sand is course and yucky, but you're smooth and soft..." (or whatever nonsense)
-"Noooooooooooo!"
-Wait, no, Greedo MUST have shot first.
etc., etc., etc.
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Silver Lining:
Disney probably doesn't have any vendetta against releasing the original theatrical trilogy on Blu-ray.
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There will be a trilogy and episodes 7, 8, and 9 to be released two or three years a part. The only question now is where they'll take the storyline with these three movies...
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Sucks for them, but many of the EU stories are not well done and entire story arcs are jagged as hell. I've always found it silly to consider anything there as canon considering you have dozens of different authors with dozens of different ideas.
It's more that it's been sold to them as canon or close to canon for so long. That makes a big difference in many people's eyes, and is why the Star Wars licensed products tended to be more popular than other properties, like Star Trek books. It set the Star Wars franchise apart in people's minds. I can see how a lot of fans would take a move of wiping out the extended universe as a betrayal.
I'd find this especially fascinating considering there are EU stories that are far, far worse in terms of damaging the series in terms of sheer shit-fuckery than how bad the same fans feel the Prequels did to the series. A reboot of what happens post-ROTJ is most likely needed.
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Disney and Lucasfilm have always had a great relationship. Not only did they create two awesome Star Wars rides (the original Star Tours and now Star Tours: The Adventure Continues), but also an Indiana Jones ride and and Indiana Jones stunt show in the theme parks.
Also, John Lassaster is a Disney exec. You have got to be insane if anybody in the world...the closest living person that we have to a Walt Disney in this day and age...that HE will not be involved in the new Star Wars project. The best storyteller of this generation. Star Wars.
MAKE IT HAPPEN, KATHLEEN KENNEDY!!!
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Sucks for them, but many of the EU stories are not well done and entire story arcs are jagged as hell. I've always found it silly to consider anything there as canon considering you have dozens of different authors with dozens of different ideas.
It's more that it's been sold to them as canon or close to canon for so long. That makes a big difference in many people's eyes, and is why the Star Wars licensed products tended to be more popular than other properties, like Star Trek books. It set the Star Wars franchise apart in people's minds. I can see how a lot of fans would take a move of wiping out the extended universe as a betrayal.
I'd find this especially fascinating considering there are EU stories that are far, far worse in terms of damaging the series in terms of sheer shit-fuckery than how bad the same fans feel the Prequels did to the series.
I have no idea, I've never read anything in the extended universe. I just know people who are invested in it and from working in a book store saw the attitudes people had towards them. Whether good or bad people obviously valued the canon sales pitch.
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Where does it say anything about there being more Star Wars films? You just made that part up!
All it says is that Disney is buying the company.
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There will be a trilogy and episodes 7, 8, and 9 to be released two or three years a part. The only question now is where they'll take the storyline with these three movies...
My question isn't how they take the story, but how they stylize it. For all his faults, Lucas did have a style in mind for SW which is a huge part of it's success. Even the prequils didn't suffer for that as much as crappy acting, writing and directing. My concern would be that Disney take the Star Trek approach and go for a completely different "modern" style. Where ST was science fiction, the new version is all action. The original SW was adventure first and foremost, and my concern would be turning that into an action franchise, as well. That would be unfortunate.
I'm surprised nobody's brought up REBOOT yet.
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I'm surprised nobody's brought up REBOOT yet.
Reboots are for when they stop figuring out how to milk the original product. The Star Wars cow is still providing.
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George Lucas and Kathleen Kennedy discuss the future of Star Wars movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyqlTi7lkhY
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I'm surprised nobody's brought up REBOOT yet.
Reboots are for when they stop figuring out how to milk the original product. The Star Wars cow is still providing.
Plus this almost guarantees another Jar-Jar type character.
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Not necessarily. They are connected with movies like Pirates of the Caribbean and The Avengers. We'll have to wait and see.
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George Lucas and Kathleen Kennedy discuss the future of Star Wars movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyqlTi7lkhY
Cheers for posting that!
I don't see much of a problem with LucasFilms going to Disney, Marvel and Pixar have been great recently in that exact situation. As for more Star Wars films, well I enjoyed the prequels and thought they got better as they went on (the first was pretty bad but they improved immensely). So I'll wait and see, but I'm not against it.
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I'm really surprised there are many doubters. And maybe im biased because I work for Disney, but Disney has proved many times that they are not just all about fairy tales and pixie dust. Disney has invested in companies like Pixar and Marvel, and have done great things with them. They are taking risks with quality sci-fi and fantasy film like TRON, John Cater, and now they are taking on The Lone Ranger. Wreck It Ralph is about to be released, and it's the most ambitious animated film The Walt Disney Animation Studios have done probably since The Lion King. With the company buying LucasFilm, I think this will extend the integrity of imagination and wonder of storytelling.
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:lol Sorry, but that last sentence really makes you sound like you're throwing out a company line.
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm looking forward to some Lion King esq. musical numbers
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I'm very optimistic and excited about this.
Not just for Episodes 7-9, but spin off movies as well. The SW universe is huge and the possibilities are endless.
I'm also hoping for an un-altered original trilogy Blu-ray and maybe they can even remake the Prequel Trilogy.
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Yeah, I'm really happy and excited about this as well. Makes total sense to me, it seems like the Marvel thing all over again and all we've gotten from that so far is a freaking amazing Avengers movie universe that's like the biggest thing ever right now.
:lol Sorry, but that last sentence really makes you sound like you're throwing out a company line.
So what if he is? I don't know, maybe I'm just brainwashed from going to Disneyland so many times but for a super mega corporation empire I really don't think Disney is that evil and I do believe that they have good intentions- namely providing quality family entertainment. I loved them growing up and now as a parent I love them even more. The GFFA is in good hands me thinks.
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John Carter
This makes me hopeful yet really scared for Disney. John Carter had a lot of potential and it still flopped majorly. I hope it doesn't foreshadow how the Star Wars Legacy will turn out
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It also did not have a brand behind it, unlike Star Wars.
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The SW universe is huge and the possibilities are endless.
Am I the only one to wish they set the future trilogy in the Old Republic times? Of course I realize it's very unlikely (borderline impossible), as they will want to keep a certain connection with the previous two trilogies.
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There will be a trilogy and episodes 7, 8, and 9 to be released two or three years a part. The only question now is where they'll take the storyline with these three movies...
I would love to see the Thrawn trilogy become the next three movies
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Am I the only one to wish they set the future trilogy in the Old Republic times? Of course I realize it's very unlikely (borderline impossible), as they will want to keep a certain connection with the previous two trilogies.
Why will they want to keep the connection? I think the names DISNEY and STAR WARS alone will put enough asses in the seats. I would love an Old Republic story
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John Carter
This makes me hopeful yet really scared for Disney. John Carter had a lot of potential and it still flopped majorly. I hope it doesn't foreshadow how the Star Wars Legacy will turn out
Am I missing something here? LucasFilms will be making the Star Wars films, while being owned by Disney. I am assuming it will be like the Marvel and Pixar films, where the ultimate decision making falls to Disney as the owners but the films are actually made by the subsidiary.
So I don't think Disney's ownership will make much difference to the content. What I'm more interested in is how the films will turn out with next to no involvement from Lucas himself.
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im laughing at all the posts online saying Disney is gonna 'ruin star wars'. honestly the prequels softened the blow on that. maybe they can even improve on them. also keep Lucas as a consultant at most
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I feel like I did when WWF bought WCW...
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Man am I happy to be much more of a Trekkie than a SW fan. Star Trek had some not-so-stellar episodes and movies, but somehow the reverence for Gene Roddenberry kept people from overtly shitting on the franchise.
:tup :lol
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Am I the only one to wish they set the future trilogy in the Old Republic times? Of course I realize it's very unlikely (borderline impossible), as they will want to keep a certain connection with the previous two trilogies.
Why will they want to keep the connection? I think the names DISNEY and STAR WARS alone will put enough asses in the seats. I would love an Old Republic story
I dunno, just to ensure continuity. I mean, how many would be drawn by someting along the lines of "Did you ever wonder whatever happened to Luke Skywalker after Episode 6? You're about to find out...!"?
Still, if they went for a total reboot they could just come up with a random storyline and set it some centuries before Ruusan. No harm to the existing EU canon, no connection to anything that star wars has ever been, save for lightsabers, the Force and a handful of planet names.
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With Disney calling the shots we got Green Lantern and Tron Legacy. I actually liked Tron Legacy but it could have been so much better.
Okay, but with Lucas calling the shots, we got:
-"But sand is course and yucky, but you're smooth and soft..." (or whatever nonsense)
-"Noooooooooooo!"
-Wait, no, Greedo MUST have shot first.
etc., etc., etc.
Fair point
With Disney calling the shots we got Green Lantern and Tron Legacy. I actually liked Tron Legacy but it could have been so much better.
And The Avengers, and all the films leading up to it.
I did not know this
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I don't think Disney had anything to do with Green Lantern, did it?
Also Disney only bought Marvel around The Avengers. I'm not sure the other films were under Disney. The future ones will be though, and judging from the Iron Man 3 trailer, I have no complaints.
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There will be a trilogy and episodes 7, 8, and 9 to be released two or three years a part. The only question now is where they'll take the storyline with these three movies...
I think I remember reading somewhere a LONG time ago that Lucas' original idea for the sequel trilogy was for it to loosely follow the Dark Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Empire) storyline.
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So what do you guys think the chances are that Mark Hamill will be reprising his role for the new trilogy?
Edit: Or any of the original peeps for that matter I guess
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Yeah, Disney really interfered and screwed up the Avengers, right?
Oh, they didn't?
Let's see how this plays out, then.
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So what do you guys think the chances are that Mark Hamill will be reprising his role for the new trilogy?
Edit: Or any of the original peeps for that matter I guess
While he's no Val Kilmer, hasn't he put on a few lbs?
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This guy better write the script. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgICnbC2-_Y
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So what do you guys think the chances are that Mark Hamill will be reprising his role for the new trilogy?
Edit: Or any of the original peeps for that matter I guess
I'll go with Harrison Ford. All the rest I don't really care about
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Oh god. I don't know what to think of this. I'm a huge SW fan, but I'm not sure how this will work out.
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This guy better write the script. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgICnbC2-_Y
That's an excellent take. He left most of the settings intact, and really just stripped down what happens. What if...
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Yeah, I'm really happy and excited about this as well. Makes total sense to me, it seems like the Marvel thing all over again and all we've gotten from that so far is a freaking amazing Avengers movie universe that's like the biggest thing ever right now.
:lol Sorry, but that last sentence really makes you sound like you're throwing out a company line.
So what if he is? I don't know, maybe I'm just brainwashed from going to Disneyland so many times but for a super mega corporation empire I really don't think Disney is that evil and I do believe that they have good intentions- namely providing quality family entertainment. I loved them growing up and now as a parent I love them even more. The GFFA is in good hands me thinks.
It wasn't a criticism.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJlbPXZEpRE
Star Wars that I Used to Know
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I would love to see the Thrawn trilogy become the next three movies
HELL yes.
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:lol Sorry, but that last sentence really makes you sound like you're throwing out a company line.
:P
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I would love to see the Thrawn trilogy become the next three movies
HELL yes.
I'll second that. Mara Jade has to finally get some screen time and Thrawn is an incredible fascinating character.
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I'm trying to look at this as a positive. If Disney is smart - and they're smart - they'll realize that Star Wars will make a lot of money no matter what, but if it's good, it'll make even more money. I hope they find great, visionary people to make the next trilogy.
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I'm shocked by this news. Lucas certainly fucked up a lot of things, although some have argued that it was his creation to fuck up as he pleased. I wish I was as optimistic as my boy TOX up there, but I really just don't know what to think about this. :lol
-J
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As someone who is not all that invested in the 'universe' surrounding this franchise, I'm pretty excited about the possibilities. Although, on the other hand, this could also be awful.
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This could possibly be the worst thing ever.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
Just, y'know, the watered-down kiddie version. Not that I think Star Wars go full-on Disney, but you can say goodbye to hacking off limbs with lightsabers and all that. And I shudder to think what the future of Star Wars videogaming will be like, if such a thing will be allowed to go on existing.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
Just, y'know, the watered-down kiddie version. Not that I think Star Wars go full-on Disney, but you can say goodbye to hacking off limbs with lightsabers and all that. And I shudder to think what the future of Star Wars videogaming will be like, if such a thing will be allowed to go on existing.
The original trilogy was never very violent either. I don't recall a whole bunch of blood and gore in episodes 4-6.
And tons of people died in Disney produced films. You just don't get tons of blood.
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This could possibly be the worst thing ever.
To me, it already is. I have been absolutely devastated since hearing the news of this earlier today. It feels like I just went through a break up.
I am a lifetime Star Wars fan, and the reason I chose the career path I did was almost entirely because of these films.
To see them continue on after Episode VI is the biggest sting, I probably would have been able to stomach something taking place earlier in the timeline. But let's face it, looking at the saga 1-6, or even one of those stubborn types that only looks at 4-6, the story has a clear ending either way. I don't care if some Star Destroyers are still out there somewhere, Luke's journey is complete and Anakin Skywalker (plus the Emperor) is dead. Plus, this is where Lucas always drew the line on where his story end and the EU crapfest began.
Not only this, there are grander implications to this whole move. The movie industry took a huge blow and a loss of independence today.
People like to say 'ole George is a money whore, because he does evil rich guy stuff like pledge half his net worth to the Bill Gates foundation and make the biggest educational donation in the history of film school. His wealth has been almost entirely reinvested back into the art of film itself, which is what makes this move so strange and hard for me to take. The studio is his life's work.
I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in the next few months that he has cancer or something.
Perhaps the saga as I knew it was simply too good to last.
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You don't need blood and cursing to make a good movie that all ages can enjoy. For the upteenth time, I'll remind everyone what Disney did with The Avengers.
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Agreed. Star Wars isn't going to become a Disney musical cartoon guys.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
Just, y'know, the watered-down kiddie version. Not that I think Star Wars go full-on Disney, but you can say goodbye to hacking off limbs with lightsabers and all that. And I shudder to think what the future of Star Wars videogaming will be like, if such a thing will be allowed to go on existing.
The original trilogy was never very violent either. I don't recall a whole bunch of blood and gore in episodes 4-6.
And tons of people died in Disney produced films. You just don't get tons of blood.
A New Hope, that dude gets his hand cut off, with a bonus close-up on the floor. And in every single movie so far, someone has lost a limb (visibly) - heck, even Anakin was lucky enough to lose three of 'em.
I'm not saying they're gonna turn it into a House of Mouse type deal, it's just gonna be...Tron.
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Are you kidding? Nemo's mom and 300-something sibilngs get eaten by a friggin' barracuda in the first five minutes of Finding Nemo. That's a pace of over 60 deaths per minute (and violent ones too, I might add)! You don't think Disney can do dark/violent?
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All off-camera though and entirely implied. And I don't, although you might have examples for a my younger self. Although perhaps even that might suggest something about where Disney is going rather than what they're capable of.
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Well, I mean, they're not going to do Pulp Fiction II anytime soon. But what they have done (the example I cited, people dying and having eyeballs ripped out of their skull in Avengers, etc.) is certainly dark enough for a Star Wars sequel, IMO.
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I'll second that. Mara Jade has to finally get some screen time and Thrawn is an incredible fascinating character.
Yes on both points fo sho.
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I will cry myself to death if any of that Thrawn hogwash ever makes it to the screen.
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Oh whatever, those books were AWESOME.
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Maybe George Lucas out of the picture means it might be good?
That's what I'm thinking as well. Lucas ruined the prequels, despite having the foundation for a really good story. The foundation for a really good sequel trilogy is there and was even planned by Lucas originally. With Disney calling the shots, it just may get done properly.
Just, y'know, the watered-down kiddie version. Not that I think Star Wars go full-on Disney, but you can say goodbye to hacking off limbs with lightsabers and all that. And I shudder to think what the future of Star Wars videogaming will be like, if such a thing will be allowed to go on existing.
The original trilogy was never very violent either. I don't recall a whole bunch of blood and gore in episodes 4-6.
And tons of people died in Disney produced films. You just don't get tons of blood.
That's because when you chop off limbs with a lightsaber, you simultaneously cauterize the wound! Good clean violence.
-J
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I'm not bothered at all by this. The prequels were so bad that it could only get better, and I don't believe Disney are going to water down any sequels (as has been said, the originals aren't exactly dark).
I'm currently indifferent to this until something actually happens.
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I'm not bothered at all by this. The prequels were so bad that it could only get better, and I don't believe Disney are going to water down any sequels (as has been said, the originals aren't exactly dark).
I'm currently indifferent to this until something actually happens.
:clap:
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Wonder how much of the original cast will be back. It'd be great to have Harrison Ford in there.
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Harrison Ford is really the only one that can come back. Maybe Fisher, but...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Mark_Hamill_2010.jpg/400px-Mark_Hamill_2010.jpg)
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Fisher could come back. She was really heavy for awhile, but she's lost a lot of weight (from what I heard).
But yeah, Harrison's the only one who could still play a lead role.
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Wonder how much of the original cast will be back. It'd be great to have Harrison Ford in there.
Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher will both reprise their roles in cameos as the parents of Z'ak, the 14 year old protagonist of the film, who teamed up with his younger annoying sister Bella (played by whoever the next Disney automaton is), and their talking pet womp rat Wompers (voiced by Vin Diesel) will have to save the day from the evil Dr. Deathstar, a CG alien of the species the "badroids", who will be voiced by Mark Hamill in his Joker voice.
Also, it's a musical comedy, and the theme will be sung by Miley Cyrus.
Is that more what people are expecting?
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I just hope they stick with John Williams. I think that's pretty safe though.
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there's a considerable population on the internet that believe that disney buying star wars = mickey mouse is in the movies. never underestimate the stupidity of people
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All off-camera though and entirely implied. And I don't, although you might have examples for a my younger self. Although perhaps even that might suggest something about where Disney is going rather than what they're capable of.
What about the Avengers? Plenty of on-screen violence there.
The point is, DISNEY ARE NOT MAKING THE FILMS, LUCASFILMS IS!
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Oh whatever, those books were AWESOME.
This.
And we need John Williams to do the soundtrack.
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Yuuuuuuusssssss :metal
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Star Wars extended universe going non-canon in 10, 9, 8...
I'm sure Lucas as their "creative advisor" will tell them to hold off. Hey, the guy likes money.
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Up until 2010 disney owned miramax, a studio known for producing such family classics as:
Clerks
Pulp fiction
Hellraiser
Halloween
Trainspotting
From dusk till dawn
Kill bill
No country for old men
There will be blood
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I'm so happy this is happening. I have never seen any of the Star Wars movies, so this doesn't bother me in anyway. I've gotten to watch my friends bitch and moan for the last few days because of this.
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I'm so happy this is happening. I have never seen any of the Star Wars movies,
:| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|
You need to watch them, like asap, seriously.
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I'm so happy this is happening. I have never seen any of the Star Wars movies, so this doesn't bother me in anyway. I've gotten to watch my friends bitch and moan for the last few days because of this.
pls go watch A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.
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I will cry myself to death if any of that Thrawn hogwash ever makes it to the screen.
This. I love the Star Wars extended universe, warts and all, but the Thrawn trilogy was total crap. I'd always heard before I read them that Thrawn was a military genius without peer, but he WASN'T, because the things he knew were things he couldn't possibly known, unless Zahn wanted him to know them. You'd get shit like this with those books:
"Sir, sensors are reporting a door just closed in an apartment in the building we're scanning"
"Luke Skywalker is there. He just ate a sandwich and went to the bathroom!"
Of course Thrawn kept winning. He knew the fucking PLOT. :lol
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I'm so happy this is happening. I have never seen any of the Star Wars movies, so this doesn't bother me in anyway. I've gotten to watch my friends bitch and moan for the last few days because of this.
Did you grow up in a bomb shelter with Christopher Walken?
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...and why are you happy your friends are upset?
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I will cry myself to death if any of that Thrawn hogwash ever makes it to the screen.
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I have no idea why so many people are so upset about this.
Disney produced The Avengers. Lucas made Episodes 1-3.
I mean, seriously. The worse case scenario in this case is the status quo.
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Yeah, I personally would be happy to never see any more Star Wars films, but it's not like they're about to tarnish something that was great and should have been left alone. Even if you think the originals are the best films ever or whatever, they've already been tarnished by the prequel trilogy (at least that's the consensus). There's a chance the new films will be better than that which would make the prequel trilogy a bad spell in an otherwise good franchise, but even if they aren't, the ship has already sailed with the prequels so it doesn't make too much difference.
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Yeah, me neither. I mean, the absolute worst case scenario is that Disney gets JJ Abrams to direct this, and it's three 80-minute high-budget nostalgia trips staring a familiar cast of premier actors.
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OK, a couple of guys have been arguing about this being good or bad in an office next to me for the last half hour. One of them mentioned Disney has promised to do the trilogy and then at least one movie every two years following. Is that true?
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I just hope they stick with John Williams. I think that's pretty safe though.
I will crucify someone if that is not the case!
(https://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt84/SVT-GT500/smileys/th_damnit.gif)
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He's 80 years old, how long do you think they can stick with him? He isn't even very active in the last few years, is he?
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Wow, as a long time Star Wars fanatic, I am a whirlwind of emotions right now. I am certainly happy that I will get to see more Star Wars movies. Although I am a fan of the EU, I really hope that the movies continue on from ROTJ, and don't become "spin-off" movies. If that were to happen, along with the supposed schedule of a new movie every couple of years, I would be worried that it would somewhat cheapen the franchise.
Regarding the EU, I have never read any of the NJO stuff, but I love anything from Zahn. As far as the people criticizing Zahn's books, no other SW I know of captures the pace of the movies, and the attitude of the characters (especially Luke, Leia, and Han) as well as he.
I would LOVE to see the Thrawn Trilogy turned into Episodes VII-IX, but I find that very unlikely. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with each book being 400+ pages, wouldn't they need to trim some of the content to turn it into a film anyway? However, that's not the biggest challenge that TTT would face in becoming movies. With Lucas still being the "creative consultant" for these films, and with his disdain for the EU - stating that he believes that Han and Leia never got married - I really can't see him utilizing any of the material from the EU. Which for me, is certainly disappointing.
However, no matter what happens, even if it's "Star Wars: Episode VII; Return of Jar Jar (maybe Gungans live a long time), I'll be in line. And so will you.
BTW, I have now seen a few people apparently agree that the Thrawn Trilogy is "hogwash", but only Jaq has given any specific reasons. Care to elaborate?
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OK, a couple of guys have been arguing about this being good or bad in an office next to me for the last half hour. One of them mentioned Disney has promised to do the trilogy and then at least one movie every two years following. Is that true?
"In 2015, we're planning to release Star Wars Episode 7 – the first feature film under the "Disney-Lucasfilm" brand. That will be followed by Episodes 8 and 9 – and our long term plan is to release a new Star Wars feature film every two to three years. "
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/disney-news/press-releases/2012/10/disney-acquire-lucasfilm-ltd
So looks like that may be true - I thought that'd be a misunderstanding from them saying they'd release the first of the trilogy in 2015 then another (meaning Episodes 8 and 9) every two years, but apparently not :lol
Even though I don't care too much about this in particular, it is yet another instance of the general trend of not making any entirely original films. "It's time to pass Star Wars onto the new generation of filmmakers"? How about pass on the mantle of making new original films like Star Wars was in the first place (original as in at least a new franchise rather than something in an existing one).
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I would LOVE to see the Thrawn Trilogy turned into Episodes VII-IX, but I find that very unlikely. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with each book being 400+ pages, wouldn't they need to trim some of the content to turn it into a film anyway? However, that's not the biggest challenge that TTT would face in becoming movies. With Lucas still being the "creative consultant" for these films, and with his disdain for the EU - stating that he believes that Han and Leia never got married - I really can't see him utilizing any of the material from the EU. Which for me, is certainly disappointing.
If they follow the EU, which I highly doubt because it will trap them long term, they would not have to tranlate the books, just follow them loosely. It's not about pages, just how the story can be told.
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He's 80 years old, how long do you think they can stick with him? He isn't even very active in the last few years, is he?
True dat.... :lol but he still compose scores though!
Well i hope they stick with some composer that still writes in the classical style of writing scores and by that i mean with alot of melodies, emotion and themes, basically music that lives and breathes for it self. I really hope they do!
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He's 80 years old, how long do you think they can stick with him? He isn't even very active in the last few years, is he?
True dat.... :lol but he still compose scores though!
Well i hope they stick with some composer that still writes in the classical style of writing scores and by that i mean with alot of melodies, emotion and themes, basically music that lives and breathes for it self. I really hope they do!
Don't worry. If they can't get Williams, I'm sure they can find someone else to channel Holst.
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The next films will be better.
And if they give Timmothy Zahn a call they'll be amazing.
You bring back mark hammil in a "alec guiness" type role. He comes in, brings the hard core nostalgics back, you kill him off before he annoys anyone, you search for the lost Katana fleet, youhave Jacen and Jaina emerge with a new "Twilight" kiddiness about it....you introduce the Vong...you do it all.
And it all gets done properly.
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He's 80 years old, how long do you think they can stick with him? He isn't even very active in the last few years, is he?
True dat.... :lol but he still compose scores though!
Well i hope they stick with some composer that still writes in the classical style of writing scores and by that i mean with alot of melodies, emotion and themes, basically music that lives and breathes for it self. I really hope they do!
Don't worry. If they can't get Williams, I'm sure they can find someone else to channel Holst.
Yes exactly, that would please me just about right!
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The next films will be better.
And if they give Timmothy Zahn a call they'll be amazing.
You bring back mark hammil in a "alec guiness" type role. He comes in, brings the hard core nostalgics back, you kill him off before he annoys anyone, you search for the lost Katana fleet, youhave Jacen and Jaina emerge with a new "Twilight" kiddiness about it....you introduce the Vong...you do it all.
And it all gets done properly.
I have absolutely no idea who what the Katana fleet is, or who Jacen or Jaina are, but you lost me with Twilight.
The original SW films never aimed at being trendy or current, they just were what they were and people loved it. If you try to make the new films trendy or current, it will be lost in time like other current or trendy movies.
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^^^^^
read these NOW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Force_Rising
this is actually book three of three...you need to read the trillogy. Excellent.
Im serious.
If you like StarWars...got to the end of say..Return of the Jedi and went..."man...what a story I wish I could follow these characters around on another grand adventure..."
That's it.
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...and will probably be thrown out of the universe as this trilogy comes to be. The EU served a purpose to Lucas, and he owed a lot ot it because it helped keep Star Wars alive as a franchise. To Disney it's just a massive constraint.
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^^^^^
read these NOW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Force_Rising
this is actually book three of three...you need to read the trillogy. Excellent.
Im serious.
If you like StarWars...got to the end of say..Return of the Jedi and went..."man...what a story I wish I could follow these characters around on another grand adventure..."
That's it.
Nah, but thanks.
After Jedi, my thoughts were more like "Man, these were good movies. Now I'm going to go watch Star Trek, which is better".
I seriously have no desire to read anything about Star Wars. I'll watch the movies, but that's about it.
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...and will probably be thrown out of the universe as this trilogy comes to be. The EU served a purpose to Lucas, and he owed a lot ot it because it helped keep Star Wars alive as a franchise. To Disney it's just a massive constraint.
For what it's worth, Lucas never really acknowledged any of the post VI stuff as "canon" at all. I don't think he's ever even read any of it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRNXFhboBI
Is this more of what some people are expecting from the Disney Star Wars?
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...and will probably be thrown out of the universe as this trilogy comes to be. The EU served a purpose to Lucas, and he owed a lot ot it because it helped keep Star Wars alive as a franchise. To Disney it's just a massive constraint.
For what it's worth, Lucas never really acknowledged any of the post VI stuff as "canon" at all. I don't think he's ever even read any of it.
He kind of did, or at least he let it slide for many years. He is in control of Lucasfilms and they're the ones obsessed with maintaining continuity. EU was keeping his franchise alive, without it he may never have been able to launch his prequel project. Regardless, fans believed it to be accepted it as canon and they never really refuted it, more of "Oh, well, kind of." I saw fans praising how the Star Wars universe was all one project when I worked at a bookstore, people bought into it as canon.
Lucas isn't going to stop Disney from taking creative control of Star Wars post VI, you're right that he is ho-hum about it. Who would want to be forced into other people's books when they feel the franchise is a film first product?
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Don't worry. If they can't get Williams, I'm sure they can find someone else to channel Holst.
Very true.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRNXFhboBI
Is this more of what some people are expecting from the Disney Star Wars?
IT´S A TRAP!
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This is really great news. The originals were classics, of course, and I don't share the dislike for the prequels that many do. Never read the books, never had an inclination to. But I'm glad the saga continues - Star Wars is in good hands with Disney.
While I am excited to be surprised by the new plot they throw at us, my only desire is that episode 7 begins right after the events of episode 6, with this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn_J425eo3Q). That would be the most awesomest thing to ever happen in the history of ever.
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This is really great news. The originals were classics, of course, and I don't share the dislike for the prequels that many do. Never read the books, never had an inclination to. But I'm glad the saga continues - Star Wars is in good hands with Disney.
While I am excited to be surprised by the new plot they throw at us, my only desire is that episode 7 begins right after the events of episode 6, with this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn_J425eo3Q). That would be the most awesomest thing to ever happen in the history of ever.
Welcome back Brother. :)
Also yea, it would be neat to finally have a scene to justify all the praise Boba Fett goes.
In the end, all the guy did was die.
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Also yea, it would be neat to finally have a scene to justify all the praise Boba Fett goes.
In the end, all the guy did was die.
If he was in a Matrix sequel everyone would be talking about how characters like him made the movies so bad.
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Also yea, it would be neat to finally have a scene to justify all the praise Boba Fett goes.
In the end, all the guy did was die.
If he was in a Matrix sequel everyone would be talking about how characters like him made the movies so bad.
I honestly don't follow. I don't disagree, I just don't follow.
Boba Fett is usually considered a truly awesome guy. But I think the most he did was find a clever way to track the Falcon, Vader did the rest.
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Also yea, it would be neat to finally have a scene to justify all the praise Boba Fett goes.
In the end, all the guy did was die.
:lol
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Boba Fett is usually considered a truly awesome guy.
The funny thing is, Lucas unilaterally determined that Boba Fett would be awesome, and the general public just went along with it without questioning it whatsoever. I mean, in Empire, he really was just another nondescript bounty hunter, other than actually tracking the Falcon, like you said. He looked kinda cool, but that was about it. And in Jedi, he didn't do much other than hang around Jabba's palace and then accidentally die. And yet, Lucas in a single stroke of genius built up all kinds of hype around the character long before Empire even came out, so that people were simply salivating over Boba Fett long before anyone ever saw him in a movie, and just figured that he MUST be awesome. Pretty funny when you think about it. And, really, I'm not ever sure Lucas really even intended to build him up so much.
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Haha 2015? Doesn't Disney know the world is going to end in just a couple of months. I mean come on.
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Haha 2015? Doesn't Disney know the world is going to end in just a couple of months. I mean come on.
Actually 2015 is a very odd year to release this movie since they're also releasing Avengers II that year. You'd think they'd limit it to one insane block buster per year. I mean, in the end they make a crap load of money, but I don't know why they'd pit one of their movies against another of their movies
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Didn't the second G.I. Joe film get postponed because of The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises?
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Didn't the second G.I. Joe film get postponed because of The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises?
No clue. Does Disney own the GI Joe Franchise too?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yRNXFhboBI
Is this more of what some people are expecting from the Disney Star Wars?
I actually found that really funny. :lol I like the fact that LucasFilms is making things that poke fun at itself.
I like the idea of making episodes 7-9 as Lucas has always had a basic story for those, so it would be good to complete his vision of the saga. I just hope it's done well.
The idea of doing another film every 2 to 3 years is considerably less exciting, but it depends what sort of form that takes. If it's side stories and things like that (like the Clone Wars movie) then I'm not too bothered really as I can just ignore them if they're no good.
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Haha 2015? Doesn't Disney know the world is going to end in just a couple of months. I mean come on.
Actually 2015 is a very odd year to release this movie since they're also releasing Avengers II that year. You'd think they'd limit it to one insane block buster per year. I mean, in the end they make a crap load of money, but I don't know why they'd pit one of their movies against another of their movies
Eh, one could be a summer blockbuster, and the other a holiday blockbuster.
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I like the idea of making episodes 7-9 as Lucas has always had a basic story for those, so it would be good to complete his vision of the saga. I just hope it's done well.
I don't think you should believe what Lucas says about having nine movies worked out in the least.
I remember reading an interview with Lucas in Rolling Stone when ROTJ came out, and there was a discussion going on about how to make Luke mad enough to fight Vader. And Lucas says, I got it, Leia's really his sister, and Vader will threaten her! Lucas didn't have an overreaching arc for the entire series when he wrote Star Wars-hell, it became "Episode Four-A New Hope" after the fact, when the sequel was green lit (To this day, I call the movie that came out in 1977 Star Wars, because that's what it was called when it came out.) Any overarching storyline came later, and it's clear from how the prequels worked out that he had neither those OR any follow ups written. Lucas claims that Vader was meant to be Luke's father from the start, but earlier drafts of Star Wars had Darth Vader as just a general for the Empire with no connection to Luke at all.
That's why Lucas is always changing the movies. They've never stopped being a moving target where the stories are concerned.
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(https://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s476/NotSlytherin/mickeyvader.jpg)
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I like the idea of making episodes 7-9 as Lucas has always had a basic story for those, so it would be good to complete his vision of the saga. I just hope it's done well.
I don't think you should believe what Lucas says about having nine movies worked out in the least.
I remember reading an interview with Lucas in Rolling Stone when ROTJ came out, and there was a discussion going on about how to make Luke mad enough to fight Vader. And Lucas says, I got it, Leia's really his sister, and Vader will threaten her! Lucas didn't have an overreaching arc for the entire series when he wrote Star Wars-hell, it became "Episode Four-A New Hope" after the fact, when the sequel was green lit (To this day, I call the movie that came out in 1977 Star Wars, because that's what it was called when it came out.) Any overarching storyline came later, and it's clear from how the prequels worked out that he had neither those OR any follow ups written. Lucas claims that Vader was meant to be Luke's father from the start, but earlier drafts of Star Wars had Darth Vader as just a general for the Empire with no connection to Luke at all.
That's why Lucas is always changing the movies. They've never stopped being a moving target where the stories are concerned.
But Lucas isn't changing the stories. He's changing minor little details and adding crap tons of annoying visuals. (Yes, Han shooting first is a minor detail, as horrible as it was).
An over arching story is just a general plot outline. Hell, even Luke and Leia being twins is a somewhat minor detail in the over all scheme.
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I like the idea of making episodes 7-9 as Lucas has always had a basic story for those, so it would be good to complete his vision of the saga. I just hope it's done well.
I don't think you should believe what Lucas says about having nine movies worked out in the least.
I remember reading an interview with Lucas in Rolling Stone when ROTJ came out, and there was a discussion going on about how to make Luke mad enough to fight Vader. And Lucas says, I got it, Leia's really his sister, and Vader will threaten her! Lucas didn't have an overreaching arc for the entire series when he wrote Star Wars-hell, it became "Episode Four-A New Hope" after the fact, when the sequel was green lit (To this day, I call the movie that came out in 1977 Star Wars, because that's what it was called when it came out.) Any overarching storyline came later, and it's clear from how the prequels worked out that he had neither those OR any follow ups written. Lucas claims that Vader was meant to be Luke's father from the start, but earlier drafts of Star Wars had Darth Vader as just a general for the Empire with no connection to Luke at all.
That's why Lucas is always changing the movies. They've never stopped being a moving target where the stories are concerned.
I don't expect him to have all the detail, like he didn't with the prequels either, but I remember being a kid a long time before the prequels came out being told that Lucas had basic stories for trilogies before and after the originals.
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I like the idea of making episodes 7-9 as Lucas has always had a basic story for those, so it would be good to complete his vision of the saga. I just hope it's done well.
I don't think you should believe what Lucas says about having nine movies worked out in the least.
I remember reading an interview with Lucas in Rolling Stone when ROTJ came out, and there was a discussion going on about how to make Luke mad enough to fight Vader. And Lucas says, I got it, Leia's really his sister, and Vader will threaten her! Lucas didn't have an overreaching arc for the entire series when he wrote Star Wars-hell, it became "Episode Four-A New Hope" after the fact, when the sequel was green lit (To this day, I call the movie that came out in 1977 Star Wars, because that's what it was called when it came out.) Any overarching storyline came later, and it's clear from how the prequels worked out that he had neither those OR any follow ups written. Lucas claims that Vader was meant to be Luke's father from the start, but earlier drafts of Star Wars had Darth Vader as just a general for the Empire with no connection to Luke at all.
That's why Lucas is always changing the movies. They've never stopped being a moving target where the stories are concerned.
Great points, all. People are still shocked when I remind them that Episodes V and VI weren't directed by Lucas.
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(https://i.imgur.com/heXk4.jpg)
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An over arching story is just a general plot outline. Hell, even Luke and Leia being twins is a somewhat minor detail in the over all scheme.
They KISSED!!!
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An over arching story is just a general plot outline. Hell, even Luke and Leia being twins is a somewhat minor detail in the over all scheme.
They KISSED!!!
Yes, it was hot.
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Didn't the second G.I. Joe film get postponed because of The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises?
No, it got postponed because test audiences shat all over it. They'd been marketing the fuck out of it, then all of a sudden pulled the plug to re-shoot for more Channing Tatum and 3D. It's not like all of a sudden some studio exec JUST realized 5 weeks before it was supposed to show that there was lots of other blockbusters coming out in June/July.
It was headed for a Battleship-like flop.
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I thought Battleship sunk.
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Lucas claims that Vader was meant to be Luke's father from the start, but earlier drafts of Star Wars had Darth Vader as just a general for the Empire with no connection to Luke at all.
I'd never heard that.
In Leigh Brackett's original draft of the script, Darth Vader was not Luke's father. The character of Anakin Skywalker actually appeared in the film as a Force ghost to train Luke. Anakin's characterization was later split into the characters of Yoda, and to allow Obi-Wan Kenobi to appear in the film.
I thought Battleship sunk.
Exactly.
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I am cautiously optimistic about this right now. Frankly, I really do not see how Disney could ruin Star Wars any worse then Lucas already has. The prequels ended up being mostly crap partially due to his desire to tell a fairly complex story that he didn't really know how to write, and partially because all he truly wanted out of them was an excuse to make a shit-ton of new toys. The fact of the matter is that Star Wars as a franchise, while magical in the beginning, has been primarily about selling toys at least since ROTJ, and possibly even earlier. The saga has become so cheapened at this point, it almost doesn't matter what they do with it. As much as I love some parts of the extended universe, (the Thrawn Trilogy and most of the X-Wing novels/comics/games) there was a lot of shit in there too (Young/Junior Jedi Knights, almost everything written by Kevin J Anderson, most of the New Jedi Order, and pretty much everything in the Clone Wars sub-franchise), and at this point it is so bloated and self-contradictory, I wouldn't really be all too sad if it were abandoned.
Considering how well Disney has handled Pixar and Marvel the last few years (and I also really liked Tron: Legacy), I would not be surprised at all if some good comes out of this. Maybe we will see the original, unaltered trilogy finally get a proper DVD/Blu-Ray release. Maybe Disney will take some cues from the fans and turn the Thrawn trilogy into the next films. Of course, it could all become a massive clusterfuck, but honestly, considering the state Lucas has left the Star Wars saga in, I doubt I could possibly be disappointed by comparison with anything Disney does to the franchise.
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Yeah, me neither. I mean, the absolute worst case scenario is that Disney gets JJ Abrams to direct this, and it's three 80-minute high-budget nostalgia trips staring a familiar cast of premier actors.
Oh please God NO.
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If they carry on the story from ROTJ, then I might actually watch it. In fact, I'll probably see it anyway, but if they pick up from where they left off, it'll probably be pretty good.
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https://www.eonline.com/news/358685/star-wars-7-plot-will-be-an-original-story-says-lucasfilm-source
Princess Leia and Han Solo also play heavily into the Thrawn Trilogy, popping out a pair of twins (of course) among other things. As for the name Thrawn, well, that refers to a grand admiral with imperial sympathies who takes over as the leader of the vanquished enemy faction.
So is that the basis for Episode 7 or not? I've heard directly from LucasFilm and other sources close to the picture, and they say: Definitely not.
"It's an original story," a LucasFilm source tells me.
In other words, forget the Star Wars novels. Forget the graphic novels. Forget everything you think you know about what happens to Luke Skywalker. According to my sources, Episode 7 will literally be nothing you've ever seen or read before from the Star Wars universe.
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Yep, who was the one that prophesied the Expanded Universe's impending death? :lol
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Well the fact that it won't be EU junk may just be the silver lining of this whole ordeal.
I kinda hope it's in an entirely different setting, even if Artoo is still there. Because there is no possible way to continue the story of the original saga without lessening the resolution that occurs in Return of the Jedi or unwriting it entirely. Lucas said himself the story has nowhere to go. Luke's journey is complete, Vader and the Emperor (and Boba Fett, to hell with the EU) are dead. I personally don't care if there happen to be Star Destroyers still out there somewhere, or the Empire still controls some worlds out there, everything notable is done.
To bring the Sith or the Empire back diminishes what has been established.
I hope I can enjoy the new films, but for now I want nothing to do with them.
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I'm thrilled that Disney has made this move. Can't wait to see the new films. Though I would much rather prefer a reboot.
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They should do an old republic era film.
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https://www.eonline.com/news/358685/star-wars-7-plot-will-be-an-original-story-says-lucasfilm-source (https://www.eonline.com/news/358685/star-wars-7-plot-will-be-an-original-story-says-lucasfilm-source)
Princess Leia and Han Solo also play heavily into the Thrawn Trilogy, popping out a pair of twins (of course) among other things. As for the name Thrawn, well, that refers to a grand admiral with imperial sympathies who takes over as the leader of the vanquished enemy faction.
So is that the basis for Episode 7 or not? I've heard directly from LucasFilm and other sources close to the picture, and they say: Definitely not.
"It's an original story," a LucasFilm source tells me.
In other words, forget the Star Wars novels. Forget the graphic novels. Forget everything you think you know about what happens to Luke Skywalker. According to my sources, Episode 7 will literally be nothing you've ever seen or read before from the Star Wars universe.
That's actually not really surprising, considering how old the original cast is. I also hope none of them make cameos in 7/8/9.
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They should do an old republic era film.
I'm inclined to agree. I'd love to see something after Darth Bane goes into hiding, just to see if they can manage a Star Wars storyline that doesn't have anything to do with the Sith.
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If they are going to do new films, they should take place as far away from the existing six as possible. A direct sequel to IV/V/VI won't work because Mark, Carrie and Harrison are all way to old to play their characters, but at the same time are too closely associated with them to simply be recast and replaced. If they want to set the new movie after ROTJ, I think it should be set at least 30 years after, if not much more so (50-100+ years). That way, the new film jumps over most of the post-ROTJ EU and doesn't conflict with the established "canon", and leaves the doors open for all new characters and adventures. Films taking place before TPM would be a good choice too, as much of that era has not really been explored in depth within the EU and is a complete blank slate as far as stories and characters are concerned.
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Leia is a Disney princess now.
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If they're calling it Episode VII, shouldn't we assume it's going to be a continuation of the previous VI? They can recast roles if they need to.
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If they're calling it Episode VII, shouldn't we assume it's going to be a continuation of the previous VI? They can recast roles if they need to.
I agree minus the recasting ideas.
It being episode VII pretty much assures it won't be set any time before ROTJ.
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If they are going to do new films, they should take place as far away from the existing six as possible. A direct sequel to IV/V/VI won't work because Mark, Carrie and Harrison are all way to old to play their characters, but at the same time are too closely associated with them to simply be recast and replaced. If they want to set the new movie after ROTJ, I think it should be set at least 30 years after, if not much more so (50-100+ years). That way, the new film jumps over most of the post-ROTJ EU and doesn't conflict with the established "canon", and leaves the doors open for all new characters and adventures. Films taking place before TPM would be a good choice too, as much of that era has not really been explored in depth within the EU and is a complete blank slate as far as stories and characters are concerned.
Mark Hamill is too old to play Luke at 30. But he's not too old to play Luke at 60.
Do you think these characters never age? Canon has already expressed that they do. This isn't The Simpsons you know.
I think it would be PERFECT to have as much of the original cast as possible playing their characters 50 years later. Maybe not as part of the *action*...but (as someone hinted before) as more of the older guides....ala Obi Wan in the OT.
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I respectfully disagree - I think they need to distance the new movies as far away from the original trilogy and prequels as possible, regardless if they decide to go to the past or to the future.
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I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do but I hope they treat the new movies as more of a reboot. The current cinematic "style" was perfect for 1977-83, but not good for 1999-2005, and would be terrible now.
They just don't do things fast enough (ie. force-lifting their lightsaber off of the ground into their hand). We all know what The Force is and what it can do, so let's see it, watching Yoda struggle to catch garbage thrown at him from Dooku just doesn't work. With his Force power he should own it.
I'd love to see a Force: Unleashed style, everything is bigger, faster, and badass. We all know the basics of the Star Wars universe by now so let's see what they can do and how far they can push themselves.
Until it actually gets made and released and I see it with my own eyes, I'm not going to think bad things or good things, that's not fair. I have high hopes, for sure, but I'll just have to wait and see.
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I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do but I hope they treat the new movies as more of a reboot. The current cinematic "style" was perfect for 1977-83, but not good for 1999-2005, and would be terrible now.
They just don't do things fast enough (ie. force-lifting their lightsaber off of the ground into their hand). We all know what The Force is and what it can do, so let's see it, watching Yoda struggle to catch garbage thrown at him from Dooku just doesn't work. With his Force power he should own it.
I'd love to see a Force: Unleashed style, everything is bigger, faster, and badass. We all know the basics of the Star Wars universe by now so let's see what they can do and how far they can push themselves.
Until it actually gets made and released and I see it with my own eyes, I'm not going to think bad things or good things, that's not fair. I have high hopes, for sure, but I'll just have to wait and see.
I don't understand that. For the 1999 one sure, but I always thought the feel of the 2002 and 2005 release were lightyears removed from the classics. And in fact I thought that was one of their many failings (and that was unfortunately not enough to save TPM).
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I respectfully disagree - I think they need to distance the new movies as far away from the original trilogy and prequels as possible, regardless if they decide to go to the past or to the future.
While I agree with other sentiments that they shouldn't recast or build a story around Luke, Leia, and Han, I think that continuity and "big picture" themes are still necessary. Otherwise, it's just an independent movie that uses Star Wars gimmicks.
It may be too early to predict what the movie is going to be like, but I can totally see Disney keeping R2D2 and C3PO as the comic relief characters.
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Well, Super Dude, maybe I used "cinematic style" wrong but I mentioned it later: the "Star Wars" style is just too damn slow-moving and too kid-friendly.
I know that's what Lucas was going for but kids now handle things way differently than in the 70's and 80's, what with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere. Just think about how long it takes for Yoda and Dooku to actually bring out their sabers... too much talking and lame throwing things. We know the basics of what they can do already so get to the action and show us something new and exciting... like the action in the video games and comic books but in movie form.
The only real example I can think of what I'm talking about is when Sidious is tossing around those huge senate pods at Yoda. It was effortless and fast and made much more in awe of his power. That's what I want to see The Force do.
What I *don't* want to see is Yoda having to stop, close his eyes, start spinning one pod, and then throwing a knuckle ball at Sidious... while Sidious for some reason just watches Yoda for the 15s it takes for this to all go down. Or Obiwan winding up and *HUH* THROWING the tracker onto Slave 1 when he could have much more easily and cool'ly just Force'd it up there with his mind.
Finally, I want to see kick-ass Force-user chicks in action.
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Well, Super Dude, maybe I used "cinematic style" wrong but I mentioned it later: the "Star Wars" style is just too damn slow-moving and too kid-friendly.
I know that's what Lucas was going for but kids now handle things way differently than in the 70's and 80's, what with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere. Just think about how long it takes for Yoda and Dooku to actually bring out their sabers... too much talking and lame throwing things. We know the basics of what they can do already so get to the action and show us something new and exciting... like the action in the video games and comic books but in movie form.
Yeah, most of the next generation have grown up "with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere", but that doesn't mean we all have ADD. The witty dialogue between and during fights is what made Avengers awesome. And, what people loved about Inception wasn't that there was shooting, but that it made you think. Same goes for the new Batman movies. The final duel in Return of the Jedi would be boring by your standards ("too much talking and lame throwing things"), but I still find it way more intriguing and exciting than the hyper-climactic overload that was Anakin's and Obi-Wan's volcano dance.
I'd continue on, but I just disagree with almost everything you've stated in your post, and thinking about refuting it makes me a sad panda.
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One of the things that made the original trilogy great, WAS all the talking.
I mean seriously, the saber fights between Vader and Kenobi, or Vader and Luke were way better than just about any fight from the prequels. Why? Because they had a purpose, they had heart and passion. Tons of crazy action just is shallow by itself. Look at the new Transformers movies. What happened? Who cares, it was just a bunch of noise and eye candy, none of it mattered. But I'll always remember the saber fights in the original trilogy, despite not remembering almost anything about the fights from the prequels.
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That transformer's comparison is great, Adami. Totally on the money.
You know, I can remember a bunch of lines and memorable conversations from episodes 4-6; everything from "Let the Wookie win" to "You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter" to "I love you/I know". In addition, I have a vivid recollection of the big duels at the end of each movie.
By contrast, I can remember none of the dialog from the prequels, and few of the fight scenes.
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That transformer's comparison is great, Adami. Totally on the money.
You know, I can remember a bunch of lines and memorable conversations from episodes 4-6; everything from "Let the Wookie win" to "You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter" to "I love you/I know". In addition, I have a vivid recollection of the big duels at the end of each movie.
By contrast, I can remember none of the dialog from the prequels, and few of the fight scenes.
Well first, "I know" has gone down in history as the greatest response to "I love you". Pretty sure Harrison ad libbed it, didn't he?
Second, I'm sure there's at least 2 lines you know, even if not word for word. "Sand is course and gets everywhere, not like you" Or whatever and the most infamous "NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"
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That transformer's comparison is great, Adami. Totally on the money.
You know, I can remember a bunch of lines and memorable conversations from episodes 4-6; everything from "Let the Wookie win" to "You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter" to "I love you/I know". In addition, I have a vivid recollection of the big duels at the end of each movie.
By contrast, I can remember none of the dialog from the prequels, and few of the fight scenes.
Well first, "I know" has gone down in history as the greatest response to "I love you". Pretty sure Harrison ad libbed it, didn't he?
Yep.
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I remember more about this game than I do anything from The Phantom Menace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z896Fj6oeM&feature=related
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I hope I can enjoy the new films, but for now I want nothing to do with them.
Geez man, it's a fictional world/universe. Movies are meant to entertain. You seem way to 'invested' into the integrity of the Star Wars movie plot-lines. There's any number of ways to continue the story of an entire galaxy at war.
If it is Episode VII, then it should chronologically be some series of events related to, and after ROTJ. If it's just a 'seventh movie', the idea of an Old Republic era movie puts a smile in my pants.
As for some of the past few posts, I agree that the story and plot of TOS is far superior to the prequels. However, for the prequels, Lucas freely admitted (I remember seeing him say this in an interview... forget his exact words though) that his style and vision was more as a visual film-maker given where technology was. He no longer (for these movies) considered himself to be a literary film-maker. He totally knew he was just putting together eye-candy. And I for one was ok with that.
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Well, Super Dude, maybe I used "cinematic style" wrong but I mentioned it later: the "Star Wars" style is just too damn slow-moving and too kid-friendly.
I know that's what Lucas was going for but kids now handle things way differently than in the 70's and 80's, what with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere. Just think about how long it takes for Yoda and Dooku to actually bring out their sabers... too much talking and lame throwing things. We know the basics of what they can do already so get to the action and show us something new and exciting... like the action in the video games and comic books but in movie form.
Yeah, most of the next generation have grown up "with gadgets and multi-tasking everywhere", but that doesn't mean we all have ADD. The witty dialogue between and during fights is what made Avengers awesome. And, what people loved about Inception wasn't that there was shooting, but that it made you think. Same goes for the new Batman movies. The final duel in Return of the Jedi would be boring by your standards ("too much talking and lame throwing things"), but I still find it way more intriguing and exciting than the hyper-climactic overload that was Anakin's and Obi-Wan's volcano dance.
I'd continue on, but I just disagree with almost everything you've stated in your post, and thinking about refuting it makes me a sad panda.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to second this. Honestly, the "fast-paced awesomness" you refer to in the prequel trilogy, such as Sidious throwing those Senate pods, only accentuated the general phoniness I got from the entire film. It's like reading something all in caps: EVENTUALLY IT JUST SORT OF LOSES ITS INTENDED GRAVITY. Of course, the worst offender in that regard is the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan lightsaber fight, but in general it just goes to show that sometimes less is more (and vice versa).
Edit: Well, seems I was beaten to the punch by Adami, and didn't even realize it.
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"You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter"
ok, I can't let this get through.
it's "Nerf herder".
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"You're a scruffy-looking nerve-hurter"
ok, I can't let this get through.
it's "Nerf herder".
Somehow I didn't notice that. Good catch.
Also, on a similar note, I fixed your username.
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I have been accused of being cold . . .
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If they are going to do new films, they should take place as far away from the existing six as possible. A direct sequel to IV/V/VI won't work because Mark, Carrie and Harrison are all way to old to play their characters, but at the same time are too closely associated with them to simply be recast and replaced. If they want to set the new movie after ROTJ, I think it should be set at least 30 years after, if not much more so (50-100+ years). That way, the new film jumps over most of the post-ROTJ EU and doesn't conflict with the established "canon", and leaves the doors open for all new characters and adventures. Films taking place before TPM would be a good choice too, as much of that era has not really been explored in depth within the EU and is a complete blank slate as far as stories and characters are concerned.
Mark Hamill is too old to play Luke at 30. But he's not too old to play Luke at 60.
Do you think these characters never age? Canon has already expressed that they do. This isn't The Simpsons you know.
I think it would be PERFECT to have as much of the original cast as possible playing their characters 50 years later. Maybe not as part of the *action*...but (as someone hinted before) as more of the older guides....ala Obi Wan in the OT.
That was more or less what I was getting at. My post was somewhat rushed because I was on my way to work and I guess I didn't complete my thought. What I meant was basically this: The story of the new trilogy cannot revolve around Luke, Leia and Han. It goes beyond the age of the actors, the story of those characters was wrapped up pretty nicely in episode VI, and if you follow the post-ROTJ EU, everything that could have been done with those characters was done to death. A new trilogy would, by necessity, require taking place at least 20-30 years after ROTJ just like the prequels were 30-20 before ANH simply because they required different characters and settings despite being in the same universe. In fact, I think the prequel era of the SW universe has, at this point, been beaten to death in the EU just as badly as the era of the original trilogy was before '99. A new SW film franchise requires a whole new generation of characters to revive the brand and introduce it to a whole new generation of fans, just like the prequels did back in 99-05.
Also, something that I thought about today was that if the new movies do take place 20-30 years after ROTJ, they may not conflict with the post ROTJ EU all that much anyways. Much of the EU from that time period is within the first 15 years after ROTJ anyways, and after that it gets pretty spread out. There are plenty of places where they could fit in a new trilogy of films with a generation of characters we've never encountered before. Just like how the prequels didn't erase any on the existing pre-ANH EU (like Tales Of The Jedi), I see no reason why a new SW trilogy cannot be fit into the existing post-ROTJ timeline anyways. The movies rarely explore events before and between the films in any meaningful depth anyways; Lucas always left that up to the writers of novels, comics, cartoons and video games. Even if the new films don't really acknowledge the existent EU, as long as they don't contradict each other too severely, the various SW sourcebooks will smooth over any inconsistencies between events in the new films and events in the EU, just like they did with the prequels.
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For the record, I love dialog "with purpose" and passion, but when it's time to fight I want to see them being the best at what they do, Force-user or not, and not struggling to lift a piece of trash and throw it. I'm hoping the new movies have all that. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Several things in this thread make me very very sad.
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I respectfully disagree - I think they need to distance the new movies as far away from the original trilogy and prequels as possible, regardless if they decide to go to the past or to the future.
While I agree with other sentiments that they shouldn't recast or build a story around Luke, Leia, and Han, I think that continuity and "big picture" themes are still necessary. Otherwise, it's just an independent movie that uses Star Wars gimmicks.
You know, that's a really good point. I rushed my post, as I was at work, but I meant to add that in not building a story around Han, Leia and Luke that they would also have to abandon everything else.
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Several things in this thread make me very very sad.
I'm too afraid to read this thread. :lol
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People really didn't like the lightsaber fights in the prequels? If anything I'd say they are one the things better in the prequels. While there's certainly an emotional, nostalgic response to be had to the duels of the originals, they are slow and clunky. Ep IV's Kenobi vs Vader was very unimpressive, specifically. I have the image of Kenobi's old man spin move burned into my brain.
The prequels, on the other hand, were very well choreographed with each Jedi/Sith having their own unique style. And emotion, in many cases. Anakin vs Kenobi (ep III) is, IMO, the best duel in the series. The greatest Sith warrior vs a Jedi Master. The end-all battle that the whole series led up to. Emotional and stylistic.
Were there unnecessary, gimmicky fights? Yes. But the best of the prequels trumps the best of the sequels.
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Hate to admit it, but I agree with H.
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The only good lightsaber battle in the prequels was the Maul duel. The rest are not fun at all.
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The only good lightsaber battle in the prequels was the Maul duel. The rest are not fun at all.
Love the Maul duel, and completely disagree with the rest of what you have to say.
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The battle between Anakin and Count Dooku was absolutely pathetic. My first thought upon seeing it was that it felt like something from a Sid & Marty Krofft show from the 70's. Like Electra Woman and Dyna Girl or something. Worst light saber duel of all 6 movies.
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I enjoyed the prequels, but they really are awful compared to the OT.
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People really didn't like the lightsaber fights in the prequels? If anything I'd say they are one the things better in the prequels. While there's certainly an emotional, nostalgic response to be had to the duels of the originals, they are slow and clunky. Ep IV's Kenobi vs Vader was very unimpressive, specifically. I have the image of Kenobi's old man spin move burned into my brain.
The prequels, on the other hand, were very well choreographed with each Jedi/Sith having their own unique style. And emotion, in many cases. Anakin vs Kenobi (ep III) is, IMO, the best duel in the series. The greatest Sith warrior vs a Jedi Master. The end-all battle that the whole series led up to. Emotional and stylistic.
Were there unnecessary, gimmicky fights? Yes. But the best of the prequels trumps the best of the sequels.
I just watched both the final duels of both trilogies. Here are some thoughts:
Episode VI's duel is all about Luke facing the temptation of the Dark Side. Episode III is all Kenobi acknowledging it's time to put Anakin down, and having those two go all-out against each other while showing off new technology.
There's a genuine build-up going on in VI. At first, Luke refuses to fight. He doesn't want to be tempted by the Dark Side at all. Vader takes swings at him, but all Luke does is parry, and run. You can tell that he wants to bring Vader back, and that he still has hope. Only after a long period of baiting does Vader finally draw Luke's dark side out. Then, there's all sorts of cleaving and swinging going on from both participants. But, there's an art to the scene. It takes awhile before Vader draws Luke into fighting to kill, which emphasizes the difference between the light and dark sides of the force. The same emphasis, by that way, that's placed when Kenobi completely yields to Vader in Episode IV.
Not so with Episode III. In III, you have Kenobi and Anakin going for the jugular right away. As soon as their lightsabers are drawn, it's understood the fight will be duel to the death. And, why not? In previous episodes, light side Jedi have ended duels by hacking off the limbs and heads of their dark side opponents. So who cares?
Episode III's final duel is like a big fireworks display. It's awesome, but it doesn't mean anything. There's tons of pyrotechnics and explosions going on to supplement the action, but there is nowhere near the emotional and psychological pull of Episode VI's duel.
Now, why I think Episode I's duel works, while Episode III's doesn't: first off, length. III hits its climactic height early, and stays in the same place for a loooong time. Not so with I. Episode I's duel is just about the right length, and the choreography and music are extremely well done. Kenobi fights as you'd expect Kenobi to fight, with the intention of putting Maul down only when it's abundantly clear that there is no other way. And, Maul is practically subhuman. He's red and black, with thorns growing out of his head. He's like an evil demon, or something. It makes sense that Jin and Kenobi would want to take him down immediately. The fight doesn't need the same emotional build-up Jedi-artistry that Skywaker/Vader had in Episode VI, or Skywalker/Kenobi sorely needed in Episode III. It's just two Jedi putting down what is practically an out-of-control animal. It's just a good fight. It's not really a duel, but an arena fight.
The original trilogy has duels. All of the Jedi fights in the prequels are arena fights.
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What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.
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The Maul/Kenobi-Jinn dual is epic for several reasons. We'd never seen any other Sith wield a lightsaber other than Vader... who was bulky, methodical, and somewhat clunky; Maul was smooth, agile, quick, graceful, powerful and dynamic. It was 2-on-1. The dual-hilt saber was one mother of a :omg: moment. The Duel of the Fates is the most epic music, comparable with anything from TOS.
While flashy as all hell, the Kenobi/Skywalker duel was just too over the top. All of the Yoda duel's carried the 'meh' aspect of knowing it was 100% CGI. Cool to see him hopping around like a Tazmanian devil-jedi, but after a couple of watches, they're both pretty uneventful.
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What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.
Which doesn't make sense when he was clearly fighting to kill not moments earlier. I don't think anyone claimed the scene wasn't trying to be emotional, just that it doesn't do a good job of it. It reminded me of a comic book or crappy anime where the writers/characters are trying to push some kind of high level philosophical view or take the moral high ground while actively trying to murder each other in the flashiest way possible.
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What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.
You forgot the green font.
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What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.
You forgot the green font.
:rollin
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The Maul/Kenobi-Jinn dual is epic for several reasons. We'd never seen any other Sith wield a lightsaber other than Vader... who was bulky, methodical, and somewhat clunky; Maul was smooth, agile, quick, graceful, powerful and dynamic. It was 2-on-1. The dual-hilt saber was one mother of a :omg: moment. The Duel of the Fates is the most epic music, comparable with anything from TOS.
While flashy as all hell, the Kenobi/Skywalker duel was just too over the top. All of the Yoda duel's carried the 'meh' aspect of knowing it was 100% CGI. Cool to see him hopping around like a Tazmanian devil-jedi, but after a couple of watches, they're both pretty uneventful.
And another thing that is crucial in distinguishing the Kenobi/Skywalker duel is environment. Unlike probably every single other duel, the environment in which this duel too place was FAR too distracting. Not only was there too much going on, but even more importantly, you just had to exert far, FAR too much effort to even come close to forcing yourself to believe they were on a volcano planet, fighting this entire duel sometimes within inches of molten lava. With probably all the other duels, the environment either wasn't all that noticeable or actually provided an appropriate backdrop for what was going on.
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What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.
The only thing emotional about this is the anger in wanting to wring Kenobi's neck. You're trying to give him salvation, after spending the last 15 minutes trying to kill him? MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND!
At this point, we've veered severely :offtopic:, with nary a mention of Disney in a while.
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Everybody my age hates on the prequels, it's da coolest!! You aint cool, unless you hate da prequels!
On the subject of duels I kind of like Anakin & Obi Wan v. Dooku I in epi 2 before Yoda rolls up. It was cool to see sith lightning again and the little part where Anakin fights Dooku alone for a minute with the dark lighting effects is kind of cool, mainly because it evokes the fight between Luke and Vader in Empire (my favorite of the duels). Hmm...I think I'll attempt to rank the duels:
Luke v. Vader I (Empire)
Luke v. Vader II (Jedi)
Qui Gon & Obi Wan v. Maul (TPM)
Obi Wan & Anakin v. Dooku I (AOTC)
Qui Gon v. Maul (TPM- on Tatooine, it's very brief but it was the first sith v. jedi fighting I'd seen in years)
Obi Wan v. Vader II (ANH)
Obi Wan v. Vader I (ROTS)
Yoda v. Dooku (AOTC)
Yoda v. Emperor (ROTS)
Obi Wan & Anakin v. Dooku II (ROTS)
Something like that. Am I forgetting any?
Back on topic: I enjoy Star Wars, I enjoy Disney. I look forward to seeing what Disney does with Star Wars. Since it's common knowledge that the prequels are like the most hated thing in the history of the interwebs I'd have to assume that the folks in charge of putting out the next batch of movies will look at everything people disliked about the prequels and try not to make those same mistakes again. I guess I'm just an optimist.
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Darth Maul needs to come back, I mean it is canon that he survived. He is my favorite Sith.
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What are you talking about, near the point where Anakin's about to lose, Kenobi is begging with Anakin to reconsider, not fall into the Dark Side, I found it pretty emotional.
Which doesn't make sense when he was clearly fighting to kill not moments earlier. I don't think anyone claimed the scene wasn't trying to be emotional, just that it doesn't do a good job of it. It reminded me of a comic book or crappy anime where the writers/characters are trying to push some kind of high level philosophical view or take the moral high ground while actively trying to murder each other in the flashiest way possible.
This, Dark Castle. I was trying to make that point with my post. Yeah, there's tons of talk about not wanting to kill each other, but it's just talk. As soon as those sabers go up, you know it's a death match. Kenobi may say some nice things about making things work at the end, but that doesn't negate the fact that he already came very close to cleaving Skywalker's skull in two.
That's a big the difference between the two films. The original series has duels between members of an elite religious order. The prequel trilogy has arena death matches. They may be presented to the audience as duels, but they are not. Duels are codified fighting arrangements to settle disputes among upper echelon people, perfect for an order like the Jedi. The fights in the prequel trilogy are gladiator-style romps in "built-to-destroy" 3-D battle arenas.
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I'll need to rewatch episodes I-III this weekend, it's been too long since I've seen them.
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(https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/10/31/xpUCnUK0b0SPfJRyvSi-_Q2.jpg)
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I just watched both the final duels of both trilogies. Here are some thoughts:
There's a genuine build-up going on in VI.
Not so with Episode III.
I think there was good build-up for the Kenobi/Skywalker fight. First, there was plenty of pre-release anticipation. This was the defining moment of Anakin's transformation. It was the segue between the prequels and the OT. It was "blue on blue," "good guy on good guy" for the first time in Star Wars's movie history. The moment everyone was waiting for.
Second, the entire movie basically lead up to it. First Anakin slowly turns to the Dark Side and Obi-Wan is unaware of what is happening. Then Obi-Wan watches the tape of his killing younglings. He's clearly distraught and heads to the lava planet with Padme. They have their confrontation where Padme and Obi-Wan try to convince Anakin to come back to the light, Anakin chokes Padme, and they finally go at it. Plenty of build-up.
Regarding the lava planet itself, it provided a good environment, I thought, for the final battle. Rather than be distracting, the fire and lava affect the battle plenty enough. There were times when it was a bit cheesy, yes, but many others when it really enhanced the atmosphere and the danger they were both in. It added to the already precarious nature of the battle.
Darth Maul needs to come back, I mean it is canon that he survived. He is my favorite Sith.
He survived being chopped in half?
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I just watched both the final duels of both trilogies. Here are some thoughts:
There's a genuine build-up going on in VI.
Not so with Episode III.
I think there was good build-up for the Kenobi/Skywalker fight. First, there was plenty of pre-release anticipation. This was the defining moment of Anakin's transformation. It was the segue between the prequels and the OT. It was "blue on blue," "good guy on good guy" for the first time in Star Wars's movie history. The moment everyone was waiting for.
Second, the entire movie basically lead up to it. First Anakin slowly turns to the Dark Side and Obi-Wan is unaware of what is happening. Then Obi-Wan watches the tape of his killing younglings. He's clearly distraught and heads to the lava planet with Padme. They have their confrontation where Padme and Obi-Wan try to convince Anakin to come back to the light, Anakin chokes Padme, and they finally go at it. Plenty of build-up.
Regarding the lava planet itself, it provided a good environment, I thought, for the final battle. Rather than be distracting, the fire and lava affect the battle plenty enough. There were times when it was a bit cheesy, yes, but many others when it really enhanced the atmosphere and the danger they were both in. It added to the already precarious nature of the battle.
Darth Maul needs to come back, I mean it is canon that he survived. He is my favorite Sith.
He survived being chopped in half?
Yeah, he's a fucking bad ass, and that's why he's my favorite :metal
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H, no. Just, no.
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The ROTS final battle just dragged on for too long imo. I got bored. It's was also hard to be invested in a "lethal" duel when they were swinging for cables over 100 ft above a giant lava river.
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I think there was good build-up for the Kenobi/Skywalker fight. First, there was plenty of pre-release anticipation.
Pre-release anticipation isn't really the same thing as the thematic build-up that I'm talking about.
Second, the entire movie basically lead up to it. First Anakin slowly turns to the Dark Side and Obi-Wan is unaware of what is happening. Then Obi-Wan watches the tape of his killing younglings. He's clearly distraught and heads to the lava planet with Padme. They have their confrontation where Padme and Obi-Wan try to convince Anakin to come back to the light, Anakin chokes Padme, and they finally go at it. Plenty of build-up.
I'm talking about the nature of the fight itself. You can, of course, argue that Kenobi is justified it wanting to kill Anakin after watching the child-killing tape. Maybe, even as a Jedi Knight, he is. I'm not sure. But that doesn't mean the fight itself has any dramatic build-up. There's a progression in the original trilogy duels that emphasizes how the forces of light and darkness are working against each-other; how Vader manages to pull Luke over to the Dark Side a smidge by baiting Luke into attacking him, or how Kenobi completely yields rather than let Vader stir up some dark side leanings that may still exist in him.
Episode III's duel beings on a plateau. It starts out intense, and it stays there. Forever. There's no build-up, or climax. It's just like a long fireworks display. Yeah, Kenobi delivers some passionate lines about trying to save Anakin at the end, but so what? He has to do that, to satisfy the sensibilities of a movie going audience who want to see a bombastic arena death match on screen that somehow aligns with popular notions that killing is the last resort. It doesn't really mean anything.
It's just mindless, over-the-top action, prefaced by really bad, over-the-top drama. "GOTTA GO KILL THE CHILD-KILLING SPOUSE ABUSER IN A SELF-DESTRUCTING BUILDING OVER A PIT OF MOLTEN LAVA!' The prequel trilogy is full of that shit.
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Wasn't there some talk/rumors/whatever about doing the Chewbacca back-story or something?
In any case, based on the high level of suck Lucas achieved with episodes I, II and III, I think the bar is set extremely low for anything Disney does now.
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This, Dark Castle. I was trying to make that point with my post. Yeah, there's tons of talk about not wanting to kill each other, but it's just talk. As soon as those sabers go up, you know it's a death match. Kenobi may say some nice things about making things work at the end, but that doesn't negate the fact that he already came very close to cleaving Skywalker's skull in two.
And even if someone argued that Kenobi had to fight for reals or else Anakin would have murdered his ass, it also wouldn't explain the aftermath of the fight. Anakin wasn't a threat to anyone anymore, if Kenobi wanted to have a rational discussion with someone who wasn't actively trying to kill him then he could have carried Anakin away from the hell planet, kept his horribly mutilated body from dying, then tried talking to him when he was better. Instead he just walks away, leaving Anakin to die for all he knows. I guess he tried his best; if someone won't listen to reason when they're trying to murder you out of rage then, really, when will they?
edit:
I just remembered a movie podcast I watched where someone mentioned that, in an interview, Quentin Tarantino was asked why he decided to kill Hitler in Inglourious Basterds and he said that the characters didn't know that Hitler wasn't supposed to die at that point in time. It's kind of a non-answer, but it's also kind of clever. The characters did what they did because that's what made sense for them to do, not because they had to abide by what history said happened. And, now that I think about it, I think that's part of the problem with the last fight's aftermath that I mentioned above. Kenobi didn't abandon Anakin because it made sense for him to do so, it's because the Emperor or whoever finding him is a better way to setup Anakin for Episode 4.
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To be honest, it's easier to enjoy some of the prequels fights like the Darth Maul one than it is to enjoy Darth Vader vs. Obi Wan in the original. Sure, the Darth Maul fight is (mostly) all spectacle, but it at least succeeds at being a spectacle. The fight in Episode IV succeeds in being a good confrontation from a story point of view, but it is a little difficult to take it seriously now because of how bad the physical fight actually is. Sure, it was limited by the actors and the technology of the time - but that's just an explains why it doesn't look great, it doesn't negate it.
The best lightsaber fight in the series is probably Return Of The Jedi. It's got the perfect balance between being a great confrontation from a story point of view and both looking good and feeling real. Anakin vs. Obi Wan probably is the fight in the prequels that is the best confrontation from a story point of view, but it ends up just getting lost in the spectacle aspect. Sure it seems epic and looks cool, but it doesn't succeed at being as good a confrontation in the story as the ones from the original series because it focuses a bit too much on the "epicness and coolness" factor.
You need a good balance between Obi Wan Kenobi spinning slowly on the spot in A New Hope, and Obi Wan and Anakin spinning their lightsabers around really fast for a full second for no apparent reason.
On another note, glad (and not surprised) to see it's going to be an original film, not any EU stuff. Fanfiction stories are ones that generally wouldn't translate well to the big screen, and hearing about the storyline of the EU stuff like the Thrawn Trilogy I find it difficult to comprehend how anyone could actually think they would really use that as a basis for new films, regardless of whether you think it's a good book or not.
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Something like that. Am I forgetting any?
Yup. Windu et al. v. Sidius. Not sure where I'd rank it, but somewhere pretty low for sure. It was choreographed incredibly poorly, and the jedi with Windu were taken out far too easily. Yeah, I get that Sidius is supposed to be JUST THAT POWERFUL. But the way it was choreographed, he didn't take them out quickly because he was such a powerful, masterful sith lord. He took them out quickly because the fights were choreographed to make it look like this was the first time these supposed jedi masters had ever wielded lightsabers in their entire lives.
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bawsk, there is a video on YT where they discuss the troubles of choreographing that scene. I can't link it (work), but if you search the Emperor's actor's name in YT, I'm sure you'll find it.
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By the way, Anakin's child-killing has always struck me as the most despicable part of the prequel trilogy. It does not make sense on any level, and ruins the entire series. If, as Lucas made-up while justifying writing the prequels, the entire series is about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, child-killing puts Anakin in a morally reprehensible category cut-off from redemption; all for the sake of making it seem believable that Kenobi would want to kill him.
I get that Vader and the Empire have the Jedi Order enslaved and eliminated. That makes sense. Did they need to show that in some form? Probably. They could have shown Anakin tricking the younglings into being rounded-up and sent to some uncertain dismal fate. They could have made it happen later, by showing the new Empire enacting an anti-Jedi policy. They could have not shown Jedi children at all-- aren't they supposed to be really, really rare anyway?-- and just proceeded with slaughtering the adult Jedi, which would have done the trick. Did they need to show Anakin going into the school and killing every single Jedi "youngling" personally? Isn't this supposed to be a kid's movie? Wasn't that the excuse for Jar Jar Binks? What happened between then and Episode III? By the way, "youngling" is a pretty deplorable way of masking that child-killing is the content of the movie.
Anyway, this "youngling" slaughter creates a number of problems. It tricks the audience, as well as Kenobi, into adopting special moral dispensation for supporting the immediate killing of Anakin, over a bombastic lava-put fight. Lucas knows drama! It disqualifies Anakin Skywalker as a redeemable character, calling into question the so-called point of the entire series. It disqualifies Star Wars as an all-ages and, maybe more importantly, children's series. When I grew up watching the original trilogy, I looked up to heroes and moral paragons like Han Solo and Luke Skywalker who, despite their imperfections, are good role models. Meanwhile, Anakin Skywalker was marketed to children as the "hero" and relatable character from the very beginning. I shudder to think what it's like for kids growing up watching the prequels, looking up to Anakin as a role model and identifiable character despite his various unjustified slaughters in Episodes II and III. Adults understand Anakin's "violence is the answer" philosophy is not to be emulated; but do young kids? Anakin's entire descent into darkness was terrible, in my opinion. It was bad cinema, and it was wrong, morally, to disguise that type of movie as a kid's film. The prequel trilogy needed to be a much darker film, or a much lighter film overall. I guess it's money that rules Lucas' world, though!
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I sure hope they put Kyle Katarn in there.
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I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it. It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.
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I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it. It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.
This.
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To be honest, it's easier to enjoy some of the prequels fights like the Darth Maul one than it is to enjoy Darth Vader vs. Obi Wan in the original. Sure, the Darth Maul fight is (mostly) all spectacle, but it at least succeeds at being a spectacle.
I agree. It's cool. It doesn't need to be a highly emotional spectacle. There's no moral gravity about the situation. It's just Jinn and Kenobi trying their damnedest to take down a big monster-assassin, and the way the environment is set up like an inadvertent battle arena makes it a pretty cool scene. It works.
It's just a shame that the Maul fight became the model for every Jedi "duel" in the prequel trilogy.
I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it. It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.
Movies do show children dying. So do video games.
They're just not the type of movies and games that market models of the child-killer as a cool toy a 6 year old should get for Christmas.
What Lucas did with Star Wars in the child-killer and sand-person-killer scene was inexcusable. There are no two ways about it.
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Something like that. Am I forgetting any?
Yup. Windu et al. v. Sidius. Not sure where I'd rank it, but somewhere pretty low for sure. It was choreographed incredibly poorly, and the jedi with Windu were taken out far too easily. Yeah, I get that Sidius is supposed to be JUST THAT POWERFUL. But the way it was choreographed, he didn't take them out quickly because he was such a powerful, masterful sith lord. He took them out quickly because the fights were choreographed to make it look like this was the first time these supposed jedi masters had ever wielded lightsabers in their entire lives.
Oh yup. Yeah it's lower tier for sure, but I'd put it upper-mid lower tier. If only because there's that one shot where they have their sabers locked and Samuel L. is making the most bad ass face ever made by man.
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the actor who played the emperor has never really had to do those kinds of scenes before. He did his best, and I applaud him for that. The actor is so brilliant that i actually believed the Emperor's character was evil.
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To be honest, it's easier to enjoy some of the prequels fights like the Darth Maul one than it is to enjoy Darth Vader vs. Obi Wan in the original. Sure, the Darth Maul fight is (mostly) all spectacle, but it at least succeeds at being a spectacle.
I agree. It's cool. It doesn't need to be a highly emotional spectacle. There's no moral gravity about the situation. It's just Jinn and Kenobi trying their damnedest to take down a big monster-assassin, and the way the environment is set up like an inadvertent battle arena makes it a pretty cool scene. It works.
It's just a shame that the Maul fight became the model for every Jedi "duel" in the prequel trilogy.
I actually hate that movies never show children dying, sounds sadistic, but it's not because I enjoy it. It's because kids do die, and every time they're the sole survivor in horror movies I just laugh.
Movies do show children dying. So do video games.
They're just not the type of movies and games that market models of the child-killer as a cool toy a 6 year old should get for Christmas.
What Lucas did with Star Wars in the child-killer and sand-person-killer scene was inexcusable. There are no two ways about it.
What was so inexcusable?
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https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=34529.msg1433338#msg1433338
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I just remembered a movie podcast I watched where someone mentioned that, in an interview, Quentin Tarantino was asked why he decided to kill Hitler in Inglourious Basterds and he said that the characters didn't know that Hitler wasn't supposed to die at that point in time. It's kind of a non-answer, but it's also kind of clever. The characters did what they did because that's what made sense for them to do, not because they had to abide by what history said happened. And, now that I think about it, I think that's part of the problem with the last fight's aftermath that I mentioned above. Kenobi didn't abandon Anakin because it made sense for him to do so, it's because the Emperor or whoever finding him is a better way to setup Anakin for Episode 4.
Yup, another reason why I find the child-killing to be so pandering and inane. It didn't happen because it needed to. It happened because Anakin needed to be evil immediately, and Kenobi needed to be ready to leave him for dead. And history said all the Jedi needed to die. So, how better than to do that all in one fell swoop? A clever solution for having so much history stuffed into one film, but still a pretty terrible directing move.
A much better scenario, in my mind, would be to have simply shown the storm-troopers circling around the Jedi Academy, or else not brought children into it at all.
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PT, I love your posts. You are spot-on about everything.
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Something like that. Am I forgetting any?
Yup. Windu et al. v. Sidius. Not sure where I'd rank it, but somewhere pretty low for sure. It was choreographed incredibly poorly, and the jedi with Windu were taken out far too easily. Yeah, I get that Sidius is supposed to be JUST THAT POWERFUL. But the way it was choreographed, he didn't take them out quickly because he was such a powerful, masterful sith lord. He took them out quickly because the fights were choreographed to make it look like this was the first time these supposed jedi masters had ever wielded lightsabers in their entire lives.
Oh yup. Yeah it's lower tier for sure, but I'd put it upper-mid lower tier. If only because there's that one shot where they have their sabers locked and Samuel L. is making the most bad ass face ever made by man.
I think you forgot the Grievous fight too.
Here's how I'd rank them:
The Good:
Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan vs Maul (TPM)
Anakin vs Obi-Wan (ROTS)
Anakin & Obi-Wan vs Dooku (ROTS)
Qui-Gon vs Maul (TPM)
Luke vs Vader (TESB)
Luke vs Vader (ROTJ)
The Bad:
Mace Windu vs Palpatine (ROTS)
Anakin & Obi-Wan vs Dooku (AOTC)
Obi-Wan vs Grievous (ROTS)
The Ugly:
Yoda vs Palpatine (ROTS)
Yoda vs Dooku (AOTC)
Obi-Wan vs Vader (ANH)
PC, I do agree that the child-killing thing was a mistake. Not because it's an inherently bad plot device, but because Anakin, in his character development up to that point, realistically wouldn't do that. When he executed Dooku and when he attacked Windu, those were heat-of-the-moment, impulsive decisions that a person in his position would realistically make. Same with the slaughter of the sand people, to an extent. The intentional killing of the younglings, though? Not so much.
Nonetheless, while that does detract from EP III as a whole, I don't think it makes the final fight bad. You say its early plateau disqualifies it from being a good fight, but I don't think so. What I see is that it starts off with both combatants full of energy and speed, and they wear each other down to the point where Kenobi scores the hit that he does. Rather than rise in intensity, it rises in desperation. The music, the deteriorating planet, and the way the combatants look all add to this effect. I recall hearing that they have a number of different outfits they went through, each looking more and more tarnished and worn. It's a good fight with each fighter clearly giving it their all.
And the flashiness? It's far from being some kind of "weakness." Everyone likes to hate on the spinning lightsaber scene, but I see it as serving as an emphasis for how equally matched the fighters are.
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Seriously! I had an over/under on H coming back on Oct. 31, took the under and he comes back on THAT day!
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Seriously! I had an over/under on H coming back on Oct. 31, took the under and he comes back on THAT day!
So you still lost. :P
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No one took the even, so everyone lost.
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No one took the even, so everyone lost.
Well, not everyone. :)
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Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
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Oh, Adami. :heart
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The Good:
Anakin & Obi-Wan vs Dooku (ROTS)
I think I disagree with that. The fight itself isn't bad, and neither is Anakin executing Dooku. It makes sense. But, the way things play out is just lolsy. What happens, again? Kenobi just falls down, right? And then Anakin's ready to kill Dooku, and he goes into this second-guessing like "I shouldn't", and then Dooku gives this goofy look and Anakin does it. It just wasn't done very well, imo. Otherwise, pretty decent list.
Nonetheless, while that does detract from EP III as a whole, I don't think it makes the final fight bad. You say its early plateau disqualifies it from being a good fight, but I don't think so. What I see is that it starts off with both combatants full of energy and speed, and they wear each other down to the point where Kenobi scores the hit that he does. Rather than rise in intensity, it rises in desperation. The music, the deteriorating planet, and the way the combatants look all add to this effect.
Hmm. Yeah. It's a good fight, but it's not good as THE fight. It could have been like, Kenobi takes Anakin somewhere to spar, and things get way out of hand, before Kenobi manages to cool things down, having gained renewed skepticism about Anakin. But even as THE fight, I do feel it's pretty long, and, as others have said, there are lots of distractions.
Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
Agreed!
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Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
Once he's in back posting in the LHC thread, yes we will all have won.
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I hope I can enjoy the new films, but for now I want nothing to do with them.
Geez man, it's a fictional world/universe. Movies are meant to entertain. You seem way to 'invested' into the integrity of the Star Wars movie plot-lines. There's any number of ways to continue the story of an entire galaxy at war.
If it is Episode VII, then it should chronologically be some series of events related to, and after ROTJ. If it's just a 'seventh movie', the idea of an Old Republic era movie puts a smile in my pants.
As for some of the past few posts, I agree that the story and plot of TOS is far superior to the prequels. However, for the prequels, Lucas freely admitted (I remember seeing him say this in an interview... forget his exact words though) that his style and vision was more as a visual film-maker given where technology was. He no longer (for these movies) considered himself to be a literary film-maker. He totally knew he was just putting together eye-candy. And I for one was ok with that.
Well, the films have made an unbelievable impact on my life, yes, all six. They are the reason I chose my career path, and I can't tell you how much of my life I've spent discussing, watching, playing video games etc. all because of Star Wars.
That said, I think the biggest foul people have committed in the fan universe is putting the original trilogy on too much of a pedestal. I think this severely hurt the enjoyment of anything else in Star Wars for them, and I like the originals more than anybody. So coming off in that way was never my intention, I'm just very disappointed at the moment.
I read a lot of things here and sometimes other forums, but mostly here about the problems some folks have with the prequels, and it's very tired by now. I've seen it all, some complaints valid, but most are not. It irks me that everyone suddenly becomes a film expert when these movies are brought up, and there is no shortage of audacious claims being made. What I really hear is that people are upset that Star Wars is not made for them anymore, and it is disappointing that they cannot find the same enjoyment in it that they once could with the older films. I am not this person, nor do I intend to be with future installments, but right now, at this point in time, I'm just shocked and disappointed that there is an Episode VII.
I could probably stomach a KOTOR era film, but continuing the story after ROTJ must in some sense, diminish or destroy the resolution we were given. And even with the good news of it not being based on the Expanded Universe, I would be incredibly surprised if they weren't like those stories in some way, which are filled with awful and contradictory story-telling in a constant attempt to one-up the existing films. If it's anything like that, it is truly disappointing, because I've always felt it was disrespectful to what has been established.
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Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.
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Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.
Yeah, this.
And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.
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Brother H is back, I'd say everyone won.
Once he's in back posting in the LHC thread, yes we will all have won.
That would imply my being single, Dimi.
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Playa, playa!
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Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.
Yeah, this.
And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.
Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.
The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored. While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc. I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it. If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.
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Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.
The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored. While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc. I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it. If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.
There is a big difference though between the feature films and everything else in the franchise. The novels, comics, video games and other stuff are all basically just padding in the big Star Wars money making machine. People can love the EU all they want, and I give credit to Lucas and his company for attempting to organize all of that crap into a somewhat contiguous timeline, but at the end of the day, all that stuff was made just so Lucas could have an excuse to make more toys beyond just what we see in the films. They are commercial filler, even if some of them are rather well done, and as such, they are easily overlooked in the grand scheme of the Star Wars franchise. The Thrawn Trilogy is no where more important to the franchise then whatever the latest video game was for X-Box or Playstation, no matter what some of the EU fanboys say. It's all just there to add to the greater Star Wars universe......
............And that universe is centered on the six feature films. If a Star Wars fan wants to ignore the Thrawn Trilogy, they can. Not so with the films. By definition, the six movies are the nucleus of everything that is Star Wars, and all the media and commercial hype that surrounds those movies makes them impossible to ignore, even for people who aren't fans of the series. Star Wars is one of the biggest multi-media franchises in the history of entertainment, and with the films being the obvious centerpiece of that franchise, they become ubiquitous in the public consciousness of popular culture, whether you are a fan or not. Star Wars is a brand so big you cannot break it, and nothing pushes that brand more then the films themselves. Some random SW novel is much easier to avoid then a multi-million dollar summer blockbuster supported by toys, video games, comics, novels, sourcebooks, costumes, etc, etc.
That is why people make a bigger deal about the films then all the other shit. If Timothy Zahn had put Jar-Jar-Binks in the Thrawn novels, no one would have cared. At most they would have simply viewed him an ill-conceived attempt at humor within the greater stories of the novels, and just left it at that. But when a character like Jar Jar shows up in the films, the unavoidable heart of the Star Wars universe..........well, then people tend to become a bit more vocal in their opinions.
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Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.
Yeah, this.
And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.
Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.
The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored. While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc. I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it. If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.
I'm sorry that you've had your education insulted for liking episodes 1-3. I think they certainly have their various merits, but none are even close to being good films in my opinion. I definitely understand why someone would like them, though, and I personally think Episode I is alright. Also, Jar Jar ain't that bad.
Personally, I don't even know what the whole thrawn thing is.
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Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.
The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored. While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc. I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it. If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.
There is a big difference though between the feature films and everything else in the franchise. The novels, comics, video games and other stuff are all basically just padding in the big Star Wars money making machine. People can love the EU all they want, and I give credit to Lucas and his company for attempting to organize all of that crap into a somewhat contiguous timeline, but at the end of the day, all that stuff was made just so Lucas could have an excuse to make more toys beyond just what we see in the films. They are commercial filler, even if some of them are rather well done, and as such, they are easily overlooked in the grand scheme of the Star Wars franchise. The Thrawn Trilogy is no where more important to the franchise then whatever the latest video game was for X-Box or Playstation, no matter what some of the EU fanboys say. It's all just there to add to the greater Star Wars universe......
............And that universe is centered on the six feature films. If a Star Wars fan wants to ignore the Thrawn Trilogy, they can. Not so with the films. By definition, the six movies are the nucleus of everything that is Star Wars, and all the media and commercial hype that surrounds those movies makes them impossible to ignore, even for people who aren't fans of the series. Star Wars is one of the biggest multi-media franchises in the history of entertainment, and with the films being the obvious centerpiece of that franchise, they become ubiquitous in the public consciousness of popular culture, whether you are a fan or not. Star Wars is a brand so big you cannot break it, and nothing pushes that brand more then the films themselves. Some random SW novel is much easier to avoid then a multi-million dollar summer blockbuster supported by toys, video games, comics, novels, sourcebooks, costumes, etc, etc.
That is why people make a bigger deal about the films then all the other shit. If Timothy Zahn had put Jar-Jar-Binks in the Thrawn novels, no one would have cared. At most they would have simply viewed him an ill-conceived attempt at humor within the greater stories of the novels, and just left it at that. But when a character like Jar Jar shows up in the films, the unavoidable heart of the Star Wars universe..........well, then people tend to become a bit more vocal in their opinions.
I agree with everything you said. However, I think many take a little far. There is the always the option to not watch something, and it seems that many spend countless hours recounting things they hated, and trying to convince others to think the same way. Why do so many spend so much time on something they claim to hate? I don't understand.
Whether I end up loving or hating the new films and the new direction for the franchise, I can't imagine being in a position where I would want to rob someone else of their enjoyment of them.
Considering my age, if any of the SW movies were "made for me" it would have been the prequels. I don't even like the original trilogy that much, they're ok. I don't think you have to be a mega fan of the originals to notice what makes the prequels bad.
Yeah, this.
And zepp, you're completely contradicting yourself. You don't like that people hated the prequels for not being what they thought they should be, but you dislike the EU and the idea of the prequels because it might affect your impression of the series. Well, maybe the prequels destroyed the mythology behind the original series for me, in a way that the games and EU only ever enhanced.
Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.
The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored. While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc. I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it. If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.
I'm sorry that you've had your education insulted for liking episodes 1-3. I think they certainly have their various merits, but none are even close to being good films in my opinion. I definitely understand why someone would like them, though, and I personally think Episode I is alright. Also, Jar Jar ain't that bad.
Personally, I don't even know what the whole thrawn thing is.
Unfortunately there are many that can't respect film school if it happens to disagree with anything they think. :lol
Come to think of it, there are a lot of issues and principles people tend to throw out if they're not happy with the end result. Shame.
Also this: https://www.cracked.com/article/167_5-reasons-star-wars-sequels-would-be-worse-than-prequels_p2/ :P
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Nah, it doesn't affect my impression of the series, I just think it's poorly done, and I never said I dislike the idea of the prequels, I love them.
The things I don't like about the series are fairly easily ignored. While I think the Thrawn series was poor story telling, I never felt the need to release a series of ridiculous 90 minute videos about it, make websites about it, blog, etc. I voice my opinion once in a blue moon here when it's brought up and relevant and that's it. If someone enjoys it I don't try to steal that enjoyment away from them, whereas here, I've had my tastes and even my education insulted for discussing the merits of episodes 1-3.
There is a big difference though between the feature films and everything else in the franchise. The novels, comics, video games and other stuff are all basically just padding in the big Star Wars money making machine. People can love the EU all they want, and I give credit to Lucas and his company for attempting to organize all of that crap into a somewhat contiguous timeline, but at the end of the day, all that stuff was made just so Lucas could have an excuse to make more toys beyond just what we see in the films. They are commercial filler, even if some of them are rather well done, and as such, they are easily overlooked in the grand scheme of the Star Wars franchise. The Thrawn Trilogy is no where more important to the franchise then whatever the latest video game was for X-Box or Playstation, no matter what some of the EU fanboys say. It's all just there to add to the greater Star Wars universe......
............And that universe is centered on the six feature films. If a Star Wars fan wants to ignore the Thrawn Trilogy, they can. Not so with the films. By definition, the six movies are the nucleus of everything that is Star Wars, and all the media and commercial hype that surrounds those movies makes them impossible to ignore, even for people who aren't fans of the series. Star Wars is one of the biggest multi-media franchises in the history of entertainment, and with the films being the obvious centerpiece of that franchise, they become ubiquitous in the public consciousness of popular culture, whether you are a fan or not. Star Wars is a brand so big you cannot break it, and nothing pushes that brand more then the films themselves. Some random SW novel is much easier to avoid then a multi-million dollar summer blockbuster supported by toys, video games, comics, novels, sourcebooks, costumes, etc, etc.
That is why people make a bigger deal about the films then all the other shit. If Timothy Zahn had put Jar-Jar-Binks in the Thrawn novels, no one would have cared. At most they would have simply viewed him an ill-conceived attempt at humor within the greater stories of the novels, and just left it at that. But when a character like Jar Jar shows up in the films, the unavoidable heart of the Star Wars universe..........well, then people tend to become a bit more vocal in their opinions.
I agree with everything you said. However, I think many take a little far. There is the always the option to not watch something, and it seems that many spend countless hours recounting things they hated, and trying to convince others to think the same way. Why do so many spend so much time on something they claim to hate? I don't understand.
Whether I end up loving or hating the new films and the new direction for the franchise, I can't imagine being in a position where I would want to rob someone else of their enjoyment of them.
Oh, absolutely. I have many issues with the prequels, but the people who cry "George Lucas raped my childhood!" need to get the fuck over themselves. The prequels have their problems, but none of that takes away how special Star Wars was to me pre-1999, nor does it take way from my ability to continue to enjoy the parts of the saga I like. Ultimately, over the years I have come to view the greater Star Wars franchise in much the same way I view the whole Transformers franchise (which even moreso then Star Wars is purely about just having an excuse to sell toys). The stuff I like, I enjoy and cherish. The stuff I don't like, I just don't buy or watch again. It's as simple as that. George, and now Disney, can do whatever they want with Star Wars; it won't affect me in the slightest if they make something I dislike under the SW banner. Much of my recent issues with George have not been over the current direction of the franchise, but over his stubborn refusal to give the original, unaltered trilogy a proper modern release (because seriously, what valid reason is there not to have the original versions of those movies available to the people who love them?). But as far as any future movies, tv shows, novels, comics, video games or whatever are concerned? He can do whatever the hell he wants.
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Amen.
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I don't feel like Lucas raped my childhood....but I do believe he deserves all the criticism he gets for just simply bad film-making and bad story telling. It's obvious to me that he's an "idea man" and not really a good film-maker. Everything that made the OT "above and beyond" was...down to the last detail...someone else's doing. The more control Lucas had, the worse the story telling was, and the worse the film making was.
I'm not bitter, I just think it was a shame and a waste that so much time, money and effort spent by so many people was utterly wasted.
You could've just given Uwe Boll $120 million dollars and gotten the same movie... (EDIT: This is *NOT* an exaggeration!)
There's no anger...I'm just always disappointed at wasted opportunities, and this was one of the biggest wasted opportunities in film history.
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After a while though, he did seem to have a personal vendetta against his OT's original take. I mean, one that went a little beyond "it didn't satisfy my original vision."
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After a while though, he did seem to have a personal vendetta against his OT's original take. I mean, one that went a little beyond "it didn't satisfy my original vision."
It's odd that his dislike of Empire was it's own saving grace since that movie has had virtually no changes, and it remains the best of all 6.
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Why is it, exactly, that Empire is considered the best of the series by many SW fans? ANH, Empire, and ROTJ all seem on par with one another.
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Why is it, exactly, that Empire is considered the best of the series by many SW fans? ANH, Empire, and ROTJ all seem on par with one another.
Well Jedi has....well....the Ewoks, and they just don't help its credibility much. However when I say Empire is the best, I don't mean it with any hyperbolic nonsense like "It blows the rest away" or "It's a million times better" or anything. They are really close to each other in quality, but as far as story telling, script, directing, writing, etc go, Empire gets ranked a bit higher than the other OT films.
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I love the dialogue in Empire. It's the best in the series and some of the best I've ever seen. Fun, witty, convincing. It's great. A New Hope is really good as well; I just like Empire more.
ROTJ is really good too, but I don't understand why they had to add in the stupid musical number in the beginning. :angry: The Ewoks were bad enough (though I don't think they were that bad).
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I love the dialogue in Empire. It's the best in the series and some of the best I've ever seen. Fun, witty, convincing. It's great. A New Hope is really good as well; I just like Empire more.
ROTJ is really good too, but I don't understand why they had to add in the stupid musical number in the beginning. :angry: The Ewoks were bad enough (though I don't think they were that bad).
And nothing against the original cut of Jedi, but it suffers from what I consider the second worse digital addition (second only to Greedo shooting first) of that horrible musical number added in.
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I don't feel like Lucas raped my childhood....but I do believe he deserves all the criticism he gets for just simply bad film-making and bad story telling. It's obvious to me that he's an "idea man" and not really a good film-maker. Everything that made the OT "above and beyond" was...down to the last detail...someone else's doing. The more control Lucas had, the worse the story telling was, and the worse the film making was.
I'm not bitter, I just think it was a shame and a waste that so much time, money and effort spent by so many people was utterly wasted.
You could've just given Uwe Boll $120 million dollars and gotten the same movie... (EDIT: This is *NOT* an exaggeration!)
There's no anger...I'm just always disappointed at wasted opportunities, and this was one of the biggest wasted opportunities in film history.
It's always interesting to me just how vocal folks are about all the negativity around the prequels, because it's always consistent on message boards and things like that, but radically inconsistent with how well the home video sales and tv ratings go.
And since we're talking about dialogue now, I'm gonna be ballsy and say that the opera scene from ROTS is the best dialogue scene in the entire saga.
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And nothing against the original cut of Jedi, but it suffers from what I consider the second worse digital addition (second only to Greedo shooting first) of that horrible musical number added in.
Agreed. It's one of those decisions that has you asking, "WHY?" Like, when you see the original singer alien in the background, she has a big feather on her head. They didn't animate that in the musical number...so it's like they didn't even care about continuity. Like they just threw that in there without really thinking about it.
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And nothing against the original cut of Jedi, but it suffers from what I consider the second worse digital addition (second only to Greedo shooting first) of that horrible musical number added in.
Agreed. It's one of those decisions that has you asking, "WHY?" Like, when you see the original singer alien in the background, she has a big feather on her head. They didn't animate that in the musical number...so it's like they didn't even care about continuity. Like they just threw that in there without really thinking about it.
That is right up there....but really, the second worst addition was putting Hayden at the end of the movie...
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And nothing against the original cut of Jedi, but it suffers from what I consider the second worse digital addition (second only to Greedo shooting first) of that horrible musical number added in.
Agreed. It's one of those decisions that has you asking, "WHY?" Like, when you see the original singer alien in the background, she has a big feather on her head. They didn't animate that in the musical number...so it's like they didn't even care about continuity. Like they just threw that in there without really thinking about it.
That is right up there....but really, the second worst addition was putting Hayden at the end of the movie...
Meh, I didn't have a giant problem with it. I mean, the logic was that Anakin really died when Obi Wan diced him up. I can follow that.
However I can't figure out the logic behind the dance sequence.
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Ok, so we know that there's going to be an episode VII, and that George is NOT going to direct it, but he shared his concepts for a new trilogy of SW films to Kathleen Kennedy and folks at Disney. I'm pretty sure since this was announced a few days ago that the seventh film is being shot for a 2015 release, shit is hitting the fan in Burbank.
So let's discuss the directors who should be at the helm of Episode VII. I think this is very important as whoever is taking over the next film has a tremendous amount of pressure of making a good live action Star Wars movie. I have a list of 10 directors I feel can take control of the next film and deliver what the movie gods want: A freakin good Star Wars movie.
i.e. Christopher Nolan is my favorite director, and is an invisible #11 on my list. Why? While is a masterful filmmaker, and the Dark Knight trilogy is one of the greatest of all time...Star Wars is not his forte. All of his films thus far has emphasized in urban settings with muted color tones, and his films touches themes of theatrical deception (or inception?) and have complex narrative structure. I think he would be more satisfied directing a James Bond movie (i would pee my pants if this happens), but who knows? Maybe he has other creative juices he wants to explore.
10. Jon Faverau - Iron Man alone is a reason why to give this man a shot of making a Star Wars movie, and Cowboys & Aliens was a lot of fun to watch despite a bad script. He also has a good working relationship with Disney in the fact that he is directing Magic Kingdom.
9. Edgar Wright - I know, I know. He makes comedy films. But he makes AWESOME genre inducing comedy films with action and smarts. He can handle a budget with special effects. Also, Spaced. Need i say more?
8.Rupert Wyatt - He's only directed two films: The Escapist, an indie flick that did well in Sundance, and Rise of the Planet of Apes, a brilliant reboot of the Planet of the Apes movies. But hey, Lucas only directed two films before he made Star Wars, and one was Indie and the other was widely distributed.
7. Duncan Jones - Another lesser known director, but he has the talent and self-proclaimed love for the Star Wars franchise. I really loved Moon and Source Code
6. Andrew Stanton - Yes, John Carter was a box office flop, but it was a damned good movie. Stanton didn't lose money for Disney. Disney's fuckin promotional campaign shot them in the foot. Stanton has a keen eye for environment and space, and no I'm talking about his Finding Nemo and WALL-E. Physical appearance associates characters with the audience, and inanimate objects create a sense of realism, whilst allowing the audience to marvel and focus on the attention to detail in the background. Something the original trilogy had and that Stanton could bring back. In the prequels, there was so much that was going on, and everything was the same tone and nothing our eyes could resonate with.
5.Alfonso Cuaron - A masterful filmmaker. Children of Men is one of my favorite movies of all time. And he's used to turning around a franchise into a new direction. Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban is, to me, the best film in a very flawed franchise, and it sticks out to me because of how he treated his characters. Meaty, and soulful...something Star Wars needs after bearing with Anakin Skywalker for three whole movies.
4. Guillermo del Toro - A fine storyteller and impeccable creature director. He can really bring back a sense of atmosphere....you know, that thing that was missing from the prequels (among other important elements)...to this franchise. Apparently, his science fantasy epic Pacific Rim that's coming out next year are making movie goers scream at Comic-Con. I wouldn't be surprise if his name was on the short list of directors.
3. Brad Bird - He has the swag and passion to make Episode VII. The Incredibles alone exemplifies amazing action and adventure with a great story and characters. Yes, he only has one live action film under his belt...which happens to be Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol, a damned fine action film and the best in the series. Anything this man does is GOLD.
2. Steven Spielberg - Of course. Why not? Tin-Tin kicked ass. So did little known films like Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, The Last Crusade, Jurassic Park, Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Munich...and uh....oh yeah...JAWS. What? Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? Lets be honest, that was a Lucas film.
but there's one director I'm gonna give the helm over Mr. Spielberg or Mr. Bird or Mr. Del Toro...
1. Peter Jackson - The geek world will explode if this ever happens. Probably not because he's tied up with the two other Hobbit films, but Hole E. Cow, you are talking about an artist with a vision. The same attention he has in storytelling elements is the same with visual effects and casting. Also remember, Star Wars is more fantasy than it is sci-fi. He could dive into this and swim. I don't think there's a better man for the job.
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Want a mind bender? Imagine a Star Wars movie directed (and written by) Darren Aranofsky.
Disney would cry themselves to sleep.
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Meh, I didn't have a giant problem with it. I mean, the logic was that Anakin really died when Obi Wan diced him up. I can follow that.
If that's the case, then Anakin was never redeemed. The whole point of the entire story is that Anakin comes back to the good side just before he dies. Luke's entire argument (which turns out to be true) is that there was something good left in him.
The end of Jedi hinges on the fact that Luke was right, and Obi Wan was wrong. If Luke was right, then the older version of Anakin should have been preserved. The only reason to have it be the younger Anakin was if Luke was wrong and Obi Wan was right.
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Meh, I didn't have a giant problem with it. I mean, the logic was that Anakin really died when Obi Wan diced him up. I can follow that.
If that's the case, then Anakin was never redeemed. The whole point of the entire story is that Anakin comes back to the good side just before he dies. Luke's entire argument (which turns out to be true) is that there was something good left in him.
The end of Jedi hinges on the fact that Luke was right, and Obi Wan was wrong. If Luke was right, then the older version of Anakin should have been preserved. The only reason to have it be the younger Anakin was if Luke was wrong and Obi Wan was right.
Yea, but the older Anakin never looked like a normal person. Unless the force extrapolates how one would look in a different scenario, he'd be there all screwed up and limbless. The last time he looked human was on the lava planet.
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Ok, so we know that there's going to be an episode VII, and that George is NOT going to direct it, but he shared his concepts for a new trilogy of SW films to Kathleen Kennedy and folks at Disney. I'm pretty sure since this was announced a few days ago that the seventh film is being shot for a 2015 release, shit is hitting the fan in Burbank.
So let's discuss the directors who should be at the helm of Episode VII. I think this is very important as whoever is taking over the next film has a tremendous amount of pressure of making a good live action Star Wars movie. I have a list of 10 directors I feel can take control of the next film and deliver what the movie gods want: A freakin good Star Wars movie.
i.e. Christopher Nolan is my favorite director, and is an invisible #11 on my list. Why? While is a masterful filmmaker, and the Dark Knight trilogy is one of the greatest of all time...Star Wars is not his forte. All of his films thus far has emphasized in urban settings with muted color tones, and his films touches themes of theatrical deception (or inception?) and have complex narrative structure. I think he would be more satisfied directing a James Bond movie (i would pee my pants if this happens), but who knows? Maybe he has other creative juices he wants to explore.
10. Jon Faverau - Iron Man alone is a reason why to give this man a shot of making a Star Wars movie, and Cowboys & Aliens was a lot of fun to watch despite a bad script. He also has a good working relationship with Disney in the fact that he is directing Magic Kingdom.
9. Edgar Wright - I know, I know. He makes comedy films. But he makes AWESOME genre inducing comedy films with action and smarts. He can handle a budget with special effects. Also, Spaced. Need i say more?
8.Rupert Wyatt - He's only directed two films: The Escapist, an indie flick that did well in Sundance, and Rise of the Planet of Apes, a brilliant reboot of the Planet of the Apes movies. But hey, Lucas only directed two films before he made Star Wars, and one was Indie and the other was widely distributed.
7. Duncan Jones - Another lesser known director, but he has the talent and self-proclaimed love for the Star Wars franchise. I really loved Moon and Source Code
6. Andrew Stanton - Yes, John Carter was a box office flop, but it was a damned good movie. Stanton didn't lose money for Disney. Disney's fuckin promotional campaign shot them in the foot. Stanton has a keen eye for environment and space, and no I'm talking about his Finding Nemo and WALL-E. Physical appearance associates characters with the audience, and inanimate objects create a sense of realism, whilst allowing the audience to marvel and focus on the attention to detail in the background. Something the original trilogy had and that Stanton could bring back. In the prequels, there was so much that was going on, and everything was the same tone and nothing our eyes could resonate with.
5.Alfonso Cuaron - A masterful filmmaker. Children of Men is one of my favorite movies of all time. And he's used to turning around a franchise into a new direction. Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban is, to me, the best film in a very flawed franchise, and it sticks out to me because of how he treated his characters. Meaty, and soulful...something Star Wars needs after bearing with Anakin Skywalker for three whole movies.
4. Guillermo del Toro - A fine storyteller and impeccable creature director. He can really bring back a sense of atmosphere....you know, that thing that was missing from the prequels (among other important elements)...to this franchise. Apparently, his science fantasy epic Pacific Rim that's coming out next year are making movie goers scream at Comic-Con. I wouldn't be surprise if his name was on the short list of directors.
3. Brad Bird - He has the swag and passion to make Episode VII. The Incredibles alone exemplifies amazing action and adventure with a great story and characters. Yes, he only has one live action film under his belt...which happens to be Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol, a damned fine action film and the best in the series. Anything this man does is GOLD.
2. Steven Spielberg - Of course. Why not? Tin-Tin kicked ass. So did little known films like Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom, The Last Crusade, Jurassic Park, Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Munich...and uh....oh yeah...JAWS. What? Kingdom of the Crystal Skull? Lets be honest, that was a Lucas film.
but there's one director I'm gonna give the helm over Mr. Spielberg or Mr. Bird or Mr. Del Toro...
1. Peter Jackson - The geek world will explode if this ever happens. Probably not because he's tied up with the two other Hobbit films, but Hole E. Cow, you are talking about an artist with a vision. The same attention he has in storytelling elements is the same with visual effects and casting. Also remember, Star Wars is more fantasy than it is sci-fi. He could dive into this and swim. I don't think there's a better man for the job.
These are all good and well....and I know that my suggestion will never happen because he's just too booked up (but then again, so are some of the others on your top ten...especially your #1)...so it's with that in mind that I say:
NO JOSS WHEDON? Not even mentioned? Not *anywhere* on the top 10?
I mean, I know it won't happen...but if we're pipe dreaming, I really think he has earned the right as a top 5 "wish list" director.
As brilliant as Del Toro is, his version of atmosphere is just all wrong for Star Wars. It's not bad, just not a good fit. It's like when Nicholas Cage was considered for Superman. It's not a question of his talent....it just wasn't a good fit. Jack Nicholson is one of the greatest actors of our time, but he wouldn't make a good Gandolf. Del Toro is going to fall into the same rut as Tim Burton. Burton was considered so brilliant, but then all of his movies started to look exactly alike, and you begin to realize what a "one trick pony" he is. Del Toro needs to shake up his style a bit before he falls into the same pattern.
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*****RUMOR ONLY********
Disney has a secretive original sci/fi story entitled "1952" to be directed by Brad Bird (The Iron Giant, The Incredibles and more recently MI:Ghost Protocol) in pre-production, and the rumor mill is churning that it is a false front for the new SW film.
I don't put too much stock in this...but Brad Bird had not occurred to me, and wouldn't be a terrible choice. Before MI:GP I would have considered him to be a bit more of a "kids film" director (albeit a good one...Iron Giant was amazing) but I really enjoyed Ghost Protocol, and think that it wouldn't be such a terrible move if it was true.
Still...not nailing myself to anything at this point. Just thought it was interesting.
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*****RUMOR ONLY********
Disney has a secretive original sci/fi story entitled "1952" to be directed by Brad Bird (The Iron Giant, The Incredibles and more recently MI:Ghost Protocol) in pre-production, and the rumor mill is churning that it is a false front for the new SW film.
I don't put too much stock in this...but Brad Bird had not occurred to me, and wouldn't be a terrible choice. Before MI:GP I would have considered him to be a bit more of a "kids film" director (albeit a good one...Iron Giant was amazing) but I really enjoyed Ghost Protocol, and think that it wouldn't be such a terrible move if it was true.
Still...not nailing myself to anything at this point. Just thought it was interesting.
Perfect title.
"63 years ago, in a galaxy far, far away...."
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Why is it, exactly, that Empire is considered the best of the series by many SW fans? ANH, Empire, and ROTJ all seem on par with one another.
Good question. As someone who saw the original trilogy first, I think people don't always realize how much of Star Wars awesomness came directly from Empire. Think about it: A New Hope is a really straight-forward story. It takes place in three locations-- Tatooine, the Falcon, the Death Star, and the Rebel Base. Watching it, you get the sense that the Star Wars universe isn't actually all that big. And, while Luke, Han, Leah, and Kenobi are great, they play fairly one-dimensional roles.
Enter The Empire Strikes Back, when the whole vastness of the Star Wars universe and imperial control over it really starts to sink in. There's twice as many new locations-- and, no matter where the heroes go, the empire is always there. We get to see Hoth, and then when Luke splits, we see Degoba, the Meteor Belts, and Cloud City. We see the Snow Walkers, and the Star Destroyers. Character-wise, we see Luke begin his training. Han and Leah's chemistry starts to really develop, which is the best love story in the series (Padme/Anakin doesn't come close). For the first time, really, Darth Vader gives us a display of what the Dark Side is really like. And we see the Emperor for the first time, too. And overall, there are so many great lines, and memorable scenes.
I dunno. Maybe it's my bias, but it seems like everything about how vast and cool Star Wars is comes straight from Empire.
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You know, the Ewoks didn't bother me so much in ROTJ. Empire is my clear favorite of all of the SW movies, and it ranks in my top 10 movies of all time at a safe #2. The ewoks really seem to lighten the mood for the third act of the OT. Empire was very dark. The Ewoks don't come off as very offensive to the viewer (Gungans). Their role was fairly small and was actually kind of fun.
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"Everyone hates the Ewoks" is one of those things that's been added to the mantras of Star Wars fans along the way. Speaking as someone who woke up at 6 AM on a Saturday to get in line for ROTJ, at the single screen it was playing on in my area, I can tell you that the actual reaction to the appearance of the Ewoks was...every female and kid under 10 in the theater going "D'AWWWWW" and a few cynics rolling their eyes. And while, sure, in the back of my head I was thinking "should a bunch of tiny bears be kicking the asses of the Emperor's most elite legion?", I went along with it because at the time, it WORKED. A lot of the cynicism over the Star Wars movies has been added by the internet generation, who sometimes should just stop worrying about details no one outside of the fan base gives a fuck over and just ENJOY themselves.
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I bring you, the Ewok Line (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZYanCQyHo&feature=related).
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Enter The Empire Strikes Back, when the whole vastness of the Star Wars universe and imperial control over it really starts to sink in. There's twice as many new locations-- and, no matter where the heroes go, the empire is always there. We get to see Hoth, and then when Luke splits, we see Degoba, the Meteor Belts, and Cloud City. We see the Snow Walkers, and the Star Destroyers. Character-wise, we see Luke begin his training. Han and Leah's chemistry starts to really develop, which is the best love story in the series (Padme/Anakin doesn't come close). For the first time, really, Darth Vader gives us a display of what the Dark Side is really like. And we see the Emperor for the first time, too. And overall, there are so many great lines, and memorable scenes.
I dunno. Maybe it's my bias, but it seems like everything about how vast and cool Star Wars is comes straight from Empire.
it also gave us the Imperial March!!!
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Empire is the best because it's the only major film where the bad guys win.
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The Empire is looking pretty good at the end of Episode III as well.
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The Empire is looking pretty good at the end of Episode III as well.
I meant prior to that point.
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But Episode III comes before Episode...
Oh, I see what you mean.
:p
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To me, the SW Universe is WAY beyond the existing movies. As a matter of fact, in MY perception of the SW Universe, the movies are a very small part. Having read 120+ SW's novels, my mind is awash with the possibilities. While some like the idea of an "Old Republic" timeline for the movies, I'm a much bigger fan of something along the lines of the "New Jedi Order" or "Legacy" era. To me it makes more sense than more prequels (Old Republic), or remakes of the originals. For me in a perfect world, they would write a new trilogy which takes place in the year prior too the Yuuzhan Vong War. This trilogy would make the transition from the original characters (re-cast) of the Solo's and Skywalkers, to their offspring. While at the same time introducing (to non novel folks) a myriad of New Republic characters, such as Mara Jade, Corran Horn, and Kyp Durron.
In the "Perfect SW" universe, after the new movies they would make the most spectacular TV series ever based on the Yuuzhan Vong war (19 novels worth of material). If anyone had the ability to do it...Disney could.
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Except just the concept of the Yuuzhan Vong seems stupid. The whole premise reeks of a bunch of writers who have nothing really to do with Star Wars wanting to reinvent the series just for the sake of. Pass.
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<snip>
....make the transition from the original characters (re-cast) of the Solo's and Skywalkers, to their offspring. While at the same time introducing (to non novel folks everyone) a myriad of New Republic characters... <snip>
This is the only part of your post that I absolutely believe *will* happen. But they have stated that they are going to ignore the entire EU and write something completely original. I believe that they mean to do exactly that, and I believe that's a good thing.
I wouldn't mind breaking into the EU, but I will never view it as "canon" and right now, from what Disney has stated, they feel the same way.
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Except just the concept of the Yuuzhan Vong seems stupid. The whole premise reeks of a bunch of writers who have nothing really to do with Star Wars wanting to reinvent the series just for the sake of. Pass.
Have you read any of the NJO series novels? I mean, folks can say it's not "Canon" but bottom line is "Canon" characters are largely impacted (I say it that way as to not be a spoiler). Personaly, I think the NJO series is awesome.
This is the only part of your post that I absolutely believe *will* happen. But they have stated that they are going to ignore the entire EU and write something completely original. I believe that they mean to do exactly that, and I believe that's a good thing.
I wouldn't mind breaking into the EU, but I will never view it as "canon" and right now, from what Disney has stated, they feel the same way.
If they are ignoring the whole EU...then that is extremely sad. So what's "Canon"? They just going to remake the originals?? I mean, anything outside the original movies is EU yes???
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All they have stated is that they are NOT going to be taking story lines from any of the books in existence, and that they are creating a completely original story line that has not been seen anywhere before.
It is implied that the movies are the only thing that are "canon" and what they are doing is continuing the "canon"....thus, whatever original story they come up with will supersede any other EU story out there, whether that be from book, graphic novel, comic book or video game.
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All they have stated is that they are NOT going to be taking story lines from any of the books in existence, and that they are creating a completely original story line that has not been seen anywhere before.
It is implied that the movies are the only thing that are "canon" and what they are doing is continuing the "canon"....thus, whatever original story they come up with will supersede any other EU story out there, whether that be from book, graphic novel, comic book or video game.
Well, that works for me, because in my scenario I have them writing a new story, albeit one that contains EU charachters. It is a tangled web they weave though. When you have novels that have to be approved by Skywalker Ranch, but then later you have new movies that might conflict with them....ugh. I mean... by canon, they're saying the original 6 novels are pure, but the other 200+ aren't? Even though they're approved. I hope, that whatever they write, will not be a major contradiction to the EU.
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I suppose, now that I think about it, that is not completely outside the realm of possibility. After all, Lucas didn't come up with the original idea for Coruscant...he took the idea from the EU and then ended up using it. So I suppose taking places or characters from the EU *could* happen. But what I got from the way they were talking was that they were going to ignore it all and come up with their own stuff. But really, when the script is most likely not even written yet, anything is possible.
Either way, I wouldn't get attached to the idea of anything from the EU making an appearance. IMO, that POV is only setting yourself up for disappointment. I would expect a totally new story from a completely blank slate involving characters from the first 6 movies. If you end up getting anything beyond that, then consider it a "fanboy nod" and pleasant surprise.
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From what you've read...yeah, I get it.. My point though, is I just hope they don't massively contradict the EU. To do so is a slap in the face to the folks like me who have invested hundreds off dollars and emotions into the EU. Like you mention though, I'll more than likely enjoy whatever they come out with, and won't set myself up for disappointment. That doesn't stop me from being the eternal optimist though ;)
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I don't care about Episode 7, but I hope it sucks. I want another RedLetterMedia review.
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I actually think I enjoy Half in the Bag more than the Plinkett Reviews now.
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These are all good and well....and I know that my suggestion will never happen because he's just too booked up (but then again, so are some of the others on your top ten...especially your #1)...so it's with that in mind that I say:
NO JOSS WHEDON? Not even mentioned? Not *anywhere* on the top 10?
I mean, I know it won't happen...but if we're pipe dreaming, I really think he has earned the right as a top 5 "wish list" director.
As brilliant as Del Toro is, his version of atmosphere is just all wrong for Star Wars. It's not bad, just not a good fit. It's like when Nicholas Cage was considered for Superman. It's not a question of his talent....it just wasn't a good fit. Jack Nicholson is one of the greatest actors of our time, but he wouldn't make a good Gandolf. Del Toro is going to fall into the same rut as Tim Burton. Burton was considered so brilliant, but then all of his movies started to look exactly alike, and you begin to realize what a "one trick pony" he is. Del Toro needs to shake up his style a bit before he falls into the same pattern.
This x1000. Someone give that man a Star Wars movie.
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If not John Williams, I think that Hans Zimmerman would be a good choice.
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It's Zimmer. And I disagree. Alan Silvestri would be a better fit if they needed someone else.
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From what you've read...yeah, I get it.. My point though, is I just hope they don't massively contradict the EU. To do so is a slap in the face to the folks like me who have invested hundreds off dollars and emotions into the EU. Like you mention though, I'll more than likely enjoy whatever they come out with, and won't set myself up for disappointment. That doesn't stop me from being the eternal optimist though ;)
The EU has shown itself to be extremely adaptable, if nothing else. The Dark Empire graphic novels are a great example, because within the span of a year we go from an Empire on it's last legs at the ass-end of space with Thrawn in command, to an Empire in charge of the galaxy again under a cloned Palpatine, and then back to a shattered rump Empire under Daala a year later. Not to mention that a lot of the older novels (Like the Thrawn books) contradict the prequels a bit in their history. In one chapter of Heir To The Empire, Palleon implies that the Empire was already in existence during the Clone Wars and was fighting against the clones. Also, don't forget when Stockpole decided to bring back Isard and insert her into the timeline between Thrawn and the Palpa-clones..... years after she already died not only in the EU timeline but also years after the books where she died the first time (as well as the books with Thrawn and the Palpa-clones) had already been written. Ohhh, and don't get me started on the issue of who originally designed the Death Star. (It was Limelisk......No, wait!..... It was the Genosians...Oh, no!...wait again! It was Raith Seinar!) The EU has been forced to adapt to the odd whims of writers and Lucas countless times, and the new movies will most likely be no different. Yea, the new movies will fuck things up, but then some sourcebooks will be released (like a new official Chronology) that will paper over the cracks in logic and pretend that it all makes sense again.
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That's why there is no canon except the films. If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen, and is basically fan fiction.
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If not John Williams, I think that Hans Zimmerman would be a good choice.
Plz god no!
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These are all good and well....and I know that my suggestion will never happen because he's just too booked up (but then again, so are some of the others on your top ten...especially your #1)...so it's with that in mind that I say:
NO JOSS WHEDON? Not even mentioned? Not *anywhere* on the top 10?
I mean, I know it won't happen...but if we're pipe dreaming, I really think he has earned the right as a top 5 "wish list" director.
As brilliant as Del Toro is, his version of atmosphere is just all wrong for Star Wars. It's not bad, just not a good fit. It's like when Nicholas Cage was considered for Superman. It's not a question of his talent....it just wasn't a good fit. Jack Nicholson is one of the greatest actors of our time, but he wouldn't make a good Gandolf. Del Toro is going to fall into the same rut as Tim Burton. Burton was considered so brilliant, but then all of his movies started to look exactly alike, and you begin to realize what a "one trick pony" he is. Del Toro needs to shake up his style a bit before he falls into the same pattern.
This x1000. Someone give that man a Star Wars movie.
I mean it could be cool, and I love Firefly, but I think people have a disproportionately large hard-on for him.
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Yes, it's Zimmer, I don't know where I got the Zimmerman from, but I really like his work in Inception, The Dark Knight, and The Pirates of the Caribbean.
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If not John Williams, I think that Hans Zimmerman would be a good choice.
Plz god no!
*Darth Vader prepares the Death Star ray to blow up Alderaan*
:slayer: dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub dub :slayer:
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From what you've read...yeah, I get it.. My point though, is I just hope they don't massively contradict the EU. To do so is a slap in the face to the folks like me who have invested hundreds off dollars and emotions into the EU. Like you mention though, I'll more than likely enjoy whatever they come out with, and won't set myself up for disappointment. That doesn't stop me from being the eternal optimist though ;)
The EU has shown itself to be extremely adaptable, if nothing else. The Dark Empire graphic novels are a great example, because within the span of a year we go from an Empire on it's last legs at the ass-end of space with Thrawn in command, to an Empire in charge of the galaxy again under a cloned Palpatine, and then back to a shattered rump Empire under Daala a year later. Not to mention that a lot of the older novels (Like the Thrawn books) contradict the prequels a bit in their history. In one chapter of Heir To The Empire, Palleon implies that the Empire was already in existence during the Clone Wars and was fighting against the clones. Also, don't forget when Stockpole decided to bring back Isard and insert her into the timeline between Thrawn and the Palpa-clones..... years after she already died not only in the EU timeline but also years after the books where she died the first time (as well as the books with Thrawn and the Palpa-clones) had already been written. Ohhh, and don't get me started on the issue of who originally designed the Death Star. (It was Limelisk......No, wait!..... It was the Genosians...Oh, no!...wait again! It was Raith Seinar!) The EU has been forced to adapt to the odd whims of writers and Lucas countless times, and the new movies will most likely be no different. Yea, the new movies will fuck things up, but then some sourcebooks will be released (like a new official Chronology) that will paper over the cracks in logic and pretend that it all makes sense again.
I think you just summed up why it's time to completely and utterly shitcan the EU and start again, actually. :lol Let's face it, Lucas has-and rightly-never given a shit about the EU. Zahn's much praised trilogy was written using assumptions about the Clone Wars that Lucas gleefully shitcanned ASAP. The earliest EU operated on the assumption that the Republic fought a war against some sort of clone army, and the realization that Thrawn was using clones was played for utter horror that the Empire had this technology. Which doesn't work with the Empire having a clone army from the start. Hell, want to read something fun? Read Alan Dean Foster's ghost written adaptation of Episode IV, which talks about Vader being merely one of the Sith Lords. The EU has never counted, and it's arguable that it should have been rebooted when it went from Bantam to Del Rey, and everything post episode 6 will be tossed aside to make way for new books, because, honestly, it's time.
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It's Zimmer. And I disagree. Alan Silvestri would be a better fit if they needed someone else.
That's why there is no canon except the films. If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen, and is basically fan fiction.
Agreed on both counts.
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If not John Williams, I think that Hans Zimmerman would be a good choice.
Plz god no!
*Darth Vader prepares the Death Star ray to blow up Alderaan*
Actually, Vader didn't do anything other than hold Leia during that scene. The execution was all Tarkin, Motti, and the guys who run the turbolaser.
/nerd moment
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These are all good and well....and I know that my suggestion will never happen because he's just too booked up (but then again, so are some of the others on your top ten...especially your #1)...so it's with that in mind that I say:
NO JOSS WHEDON? Not even mentioned? Not *anywhere* on the top 10?
I mean, I know it won't happen...but if we're pipe dreaming, I really think he has earned the right as a top 5 "wish list" director.
As brilliant as Del Toro is, his version of atmosphere is just all wrong for Star Wars. It's not bad, just not a good fit. It's like when Nicholas Cage was considered for Superman. It's not a question of his talent....it just wasn't a good fit. Jack Nicholson is one of the greatest actors of our time, but he wouldn't make a good Gandolf. Del Toro is going to fall into the same rut as Tim Burton. Burton was considered so brilliant, but then all of his movies started to look exactly alike, and you begin to realize what a "one trick pony" he is. Del Toro needs to shake up his style a bit before he falls into the same pattern.
This x1000. Someone give that man a Star Wars movie.
He's a little preoccupied with The Avengers.
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For composers, if Williams can't do it, I'd like to add to the list:
Michael Giacchino
David Arnold
And holy crap Zimmer would be the worst possible choice.
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That's why there is no canon except the films. If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen, and is basically fan fiction.
Yes, and if fans weren't sold into the EU as canon or close to it we wouldn't be talking about the EU at all. Unlike other popular franchises that license books, comics, etc, which mostly haven't labeled their licensed products as anything other than glorified fan fiction, the EU drew so many dedicated fans because they believed it to be more than a throwaway story. Lucasfilms encouraged the belief, especially with all of their continuity cataloging. Fans knew contradictions could occur and the films would rule the day, always, but I don't think many suspected the possibility that there could ever be one film that could completely wipe out the EU canon level by contradiction.
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That's why there is no canon except the films. If it didn't happen on screen, it didn't happen, and is basically fan fiction.
Yes, and if fans weren't sold into the EU as canon or close to it we wouldn't be talking about the EU at all. Unlike other popular franchises that license books, comics, etc, which mostly haven't labeled their licensed products as anything other than glorified fan fiction, the EU drew so many dedicated fans because they believed it to be more than a throwaway story. Lucasfilms encouraged the belief, especially with all of their continuity cataloging. Fans knew contradictions could occur and the films would rule the day, always, but I don't think many suspected the possibility that there could ever be one film that could completely wipe out the EU canon level by contradiction.
This is exactly why the EU cannot simply be abandoned. Unlike other major Sci-Fi franchises like Star Trek and Doctor Who (both long running TV series), Star Wars has a very limited amount of true canon because it is confined to just the feature films. George made the EU psudo-canon largely to encourage SW fans to buy them and also to give him more toys to market until the prequels came out. However, Lucasfilm's position that everything is canon unless it contradicts the films, as well as the haphazard way in which the whole EU was set up, led to a bewildering array of novels, comics, video games and other materials all counting as canon, the creators of which gave little, if any, concern to what their co-writers were creating, or how it would impact the greater SW universe, leading to a lot of in-universe contradictions.
Despite this, because the EU was sold to fans on the whole premise that it is canon, for Lucasfilm to turn around and say that none of it matters anymore would be a major PR debacle. Hundreds of thousands, if not maybe even millions, of pissed off customers who feel they were tricked into buying a worthless product is bad for any business, so I don't think that attempting to wipe the slate clean of 20+ years of EU products is the way to go on this. In the end, I think Lucasfilm/Disney will just make whatever films they want, and then the writers of sourcebooks like the Official Chronology will have to find a way to make it all fit together. They did it with the prequels, there is no reason why they cannot do it again.
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I may be WAAAY off base here...but I think EU fan base is a mile wide and an inch deep. They are vocal, and they *think* they are the entire fanbase, when in fact they make up an extremely small percentage of Star Wars fans.
This is only my opinion, and is not intended to start a flame war...just something I feel is an "uncomfortable truth" for some.
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Gotta agree with The Dude here. That fits with pretty much everything I've seen and heard concerning the novels and EU.
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I may be WAAAY off base here...but I think EU fan base is a mile wide and an inch deep. They are vocal, and they *think* they are the entire fanbase, when in fact they make up an extremely small percentage of Star Wars fans.
This is only my opinion, and is not intended to start a flame war...just something I feel is an "uncomfortable truth" for some.
You're most certainly right. Star Wars as a broad cultural appeal, but the EU is a niche. This problem is just that wiping out the EU would more or less affect their most dedicated fans only. It's like a sucker punch to your best customers.
However, the EU has very large following. The books and games are solid sellers. It may be a minority, but they represent well.
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I may be WAAAY off base here...but I think EU fan base is a mile wide and an inch deep. They are vocal, and they *think* they are the entire fanbase, when in fact they make up an extremely small percentage of Star Wars fans.
This is only my opinion, and is not intended to start a flame war...just something I feel is an "uncomfortable truth" for some.
I'm not sure how big the EU fanbase is. The SW fanbase is gigantic as is, so I imagine the number of people invested in the EU has to be considerable. At the very least, it must be much more significant then just a handful of nerds.....
However, the real question is how many of those fans will get all riled up if the EU is de-canonized, and I don't know if there is an accurate way to measure the right now. A lot of different people are fans of the EU and they probably have differing levels of commitment to their EU materials. Someone who owns Knights Of The Old Republic for X-box probably would not be as pissed off if their video game no longer counts as cannon then someone who owns scores of novels and comic books.
So I don't think the EU fanbase is small enough to just be dismissed, but at the same time, I highly doubt it possesses anything resembling a unified attitude on the EU itself. Ultimately, it is all in the hands of Lucasfilm/Disney now, and whether or not they consider the EU worth saving. It will ultimately come down to money, and the real question of whether the potential profits lost by alienating a wide range of EU fans would be worth it just to make a new movie with a completely clean slate. And it's really not a simple choice. Remember, Lucasfilm (and now Disney) has money invested in all those novels, comics and video games. To de-legitimize their own sources of income would be foolish.
Then again, though, it may not be that far off of an idea. Remember when DC rebooted their on universe recently? They could do something like that with the EU (although the DC reboot has received very mixed reactions from fans). Who knows what Lucasfilm will do about the EU?
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The purchase by Disney with plans to move on with films is the perfect opportunity for them to shed the EU. Lucas can deflect the blame and they can move ahead with complete creative control on the films.
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DC's reboot was a bit different though, They didn't start at origin's, characters were already established, and connections between series as well, it was more so a new arc for every comic that started at 1 so new fans wouldn't feel discouraged since issues were up in the hundreds at that point.
Personally I really appreciate it as I now follow Batman, and the Detective Comics.
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Not only that...but IMO, it's a bigger risk to try and do the books. There are exceptions (obviously LOTR) but for the most part, the vast majority of book adaptations are horrible disappointments.
The EU is a no-win scenario. Because if you try to do a book adaptation, you create MORE work for yourself (because you're starting from within a smaller "box" than just the 6 movies)...and then you also have to deal with the fact that no one will ever be completely satisfied with your attempt. ("The guy they got for Thrawn was just ALL WRONG for the part!!!") :\
It's far safer to just ignore the whole thing and start from scratch.
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Now that Star Wars is out of Lucas' hands, it makes sense to look at it just like most other big franchises; you just gotta acknowledge that multiple, sometimes contradictory continuities exist, and everyone just has to be satisfied with that.
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I may be WAAAY off base here...but I think EU fan base is a mile wide and an inch deep. They are vocal, and they *think* they are the entire fanbase, when in fact they make up an extremely small percentage of Star Wars fans.
This is only my opinion, and is not intended to start a flame war...just something I feel is an "uncomfortable truth" for some.
That may be true, but imo only because of Star Wars' ridiculous amount of mainstream love. In this day and age, even if people haven't seen Star Wars, they know of it and know the names of most of the main characters - even my girlfriend, who at almost 20 years old had never seen a Star Wars movie knew who Darth Vader and Jar Jar were. It's literally a household name. So yes, in those terms, EU fandom is pretty small, but only because mainstream fandom is incalculably huge in comparison.
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I don't know, I didn't stay with the EU very long, but I read all the Thrawn trilogy at original publication, and I don't remember anything then about those books or anything else being canon, any more than the Star Trek novels are considered canon (which AFAIK they are not). They are just more stories to produce more income for Lucasfilm.
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All I can say now is (in my best Jerry-voiced fist-pump): THIS IS GONNA BE GREAT!
I think it would be a mistake to give it to an "proven" director (Spielberg, Scott, etc) and would be much better served in the long run if they gave it to a relatively new one, or even some fresh-faced kid out of school, just to help give it a kick in the balls.
Maybe after 7-9 they did more frequent smaller movies, like The Animatrix, and have multiple directors and creative forces behind them. I would love to see Michael Bay and Zack Snyder do something in the Star Wars universe.
My worst fear would be that somehow Lucas doesn't like anything and wiggles his way back into the main 'force' and completely takes over.
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Here's an idea for episode VII that allows the existence of the EU.
So Episode VII ends up taking places between episodes III and IV. It's about how Luke, and Leia and Han, and Chewey and R2 and 3PO all met each other at the Rebellion Academy or something. They're all early 20's, late teens versions of themselves. However, after the events of the EU, a renegade pissed off Sith travels back in time to what I was saying earlier in order to kill Han, who he blames for everything that happened. However, old Luke also travels back in time, unbeknownst to the Sith guy.
So the rebellion (with their not as advanced technology) goes to war with this Sith guy who brought a crazy ship and loses miserably. This cases Luke, Leia, Han, Chewey, Lando, etc to get their own ship and handle the mess themselves. Eventually Han meets old Luke who guides him in the right direction. It ends with The crew of the U.S.S. Star Wars sending the evil Sith guy through a black hole.
So this causes the movies to not really consider the EU because the Sith guy going back in time created an alternate time line and stuff. Oh yea, at some point Luke's planet gets sucked into a black hole and he loses his mother in a botched transporter accident.
Directed by JJ Abrams.
Eh?
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I don't know, I didn't stay with the EU very long, but I read all the Thrawn trilogy at original publication, and I don't remember anything then about those books or anything else being canon, any more than the Star Trek novels are considered canon (which AFAIK they are not). They are just more stories to produce more income for Lucasfilm.
Trek novels are not canon, much less so than the EU stuff is considered. From what I understand EU has some vague pretense about being sorta semi-canon at some level until contradicted, whereas in Trek it's not considered canon in the slightest. Like the EU, a thing or two may have been plucked from novels and made its way into canon over time, but the vast majority is ignored by the movies/series. I think they've even rebooted a lot of the Trek novel series, and a lot of it got ignored and contradicted in series anyway.
I find the Trek book stuff to be kinda fanwanky anyway. I read one Trek novel that was just "cram as much fanwank as possible into 500 pages". Seeing mention of a cloned Palpatine ruling the Empire pretty much confirms SW being the same in that regard. :lol
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Here's an idea for episode VII that allows the existence of the EU.
So Episode VII ends up taking places between episodes III and IV. It's about how Luke, and Leia and Han, and Chewey and R2 and 3PO all met each other at the Rebellion Academy or something. They're all early 20's, late teens versions of themselves. However, after the events of the EU, a renegade pissed off Sith travels back in time to what I was saying earlier in order to kill Han, who he blames for everything that happened. However, old Luke also travels back in time, unbeknownst to the Sith guy.
So the rebellion (with their not as advanced technology) goes to war with this Sith guy who brought a crazy ship and loses miserably. This cases Luke, Leia, Han, Chewey, Lando, etc to get their own ship and handle the mess themselves. Eventually Han meets old Luke who guides him in the right direction. It ends with The crew of the U.S.S. Star Wars sending the evil Sith guy through a black hole.
So this causes the movies to not really consider the EU because the Sith guy going back in time created an alternate time line and stuff. Oh yea, at some point Luke's planet gets sucked into a black hole and he loses his mother in a botched transporter accident.
Directed by JJ Abrams.
Eh?
Except that VII *means* VII. VII does not = III 1/2.
I can't accept that VII will be anything other than something chronologically after VI.
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Except that VII *means* VII. VII does not = III 1/2.
I can't accept that VII will be anything other than something chronologically after VI.
I agree. III spent the last half hour of the movie tediously bridging the gap between the PT and the OT, plus it boxes them in to be confined between those, especially if they plan to do more than just 3 more movies. They'll want to start fresh. If they start after Ep VI, they essentially have a clean start to continue a story as long as they want.
Plus *if* they want to use actors from the OT (not saying they will at all), they'd chronologically need it to take place decades after VI.
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Come on, my humor can't be THAT easy to miss.
The "directed by JJ Abrams" didn't give it away as just the plot of Star Trek 09?
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Come on, my humor can't be THAT easy to miss.
The "directed by JJ Abrams" didn't give it away as just the plot of Star Trek 09?
You got me. I am completely guilty of something I despise...and I've just discovered that I am occasionally guilty myself. Reading the first few lines, and glossing over the rest.
Upon re-reading it....I feel like an idiot. :facepalm:
It was funny...but I ruined it. I apologize. I am sorry my dear friend.
It's sooo late...and I've been soooo stressed lately.
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lol it's cool dude.
-bro hug-
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I don't know, I didn't stay with the EU very long, but I read all the Thrawn trilogy at original publication, and I don't remember anything then about those books or anything else being canon, any more than the Star Trek novels are considered canon (which AFAIK they are not). They are just more stories to produce more income for Lucasfilm.
Trek novels are not canon, much less so than the EU stuff is considered. From what I understand EU has some vague pretense about being sorta semi-canon at some level until contradicted, whereas in Trek it's not considered canon in the slightest. Like the EU, a thing or two may have been plucked from novels and made its way into canon over time, but the vast majority is ignored by the movies/series. I think they've even rebooted a lot of the Trek novel series, and a lot of it got ignored and contradicted in series anyway.
I find the Trek book stuff to be kinda fanwanky anyway. I read one Trek novel that was just "cram as much fanwank as possible into 500 pages". Seeing mention of a cloned Palpatine ruling the Empire pretty much confirms SW being the same in that regard. :lol
Yup, that's all most Trek novels are ever aimed at. The publishers have always been clear that it's not at all meant to be part of actual franchise lore. Actually, there have been a few Trek series of novels that were rather nice. The New Frontier series started off great, it was a new crew written by one author. The DS9 reboot was also very good until near its end, which was again nearly half a new cast. In both cases the licenses were given a lot of freedom because Paramount did not expect to ever have an interest in visiting those stories on film. Their instructions otherwise were to just try to fit in to where the series currently was. Star Wars, on the other hand, was heavily monitored licensed products, Lucasfilms was obsessed with continuity and took quite a few things from EU into film references. It was held above other licensed products, and it sold better because of it.
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While this doesn't effect my high hopes for the new films....this is highly disappointing news regarding the OT.
https://www.darkhorizons.com/news/25397/fox-still-owns-the-original-star-wars
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I don't know, I didn't stay with the EU very long, but I read all the Thrawn trilogy at original publication, and I don't remember anything then about those books or anything else being canon, any more than the Star Trek novels are considered canon (which AFAIK they are not). They are just more stories to produce more income for Lucasfilm.
Trek novels are not canon, much less so than the EU stuff is considered. From what I understand EU has some vague pretense about being sorta semi-canon at some level until contradicted, whereas in Trek it's not considered canon in the slightest. Like the EU, a thing or two may have been plucked from novels and made its way into canon over time, but the vast majority is ignored by the movies/series. I think they've even rebooted a lot of the Trek novel series, and a lot of it got ignored and contradicted in series anyway.
I find the Trek book stuff to be kinda fanwanky anyway. I read one Trek novel that was just "cram as much fanwank as possible into 500 pages". Seeing mention of a cloned Palpatine ruling the Empire pretty much confirms SW being the same in that regard. :lol
If memory serves, Lucasfilm has levels of canon which apply to the movies, EU, games, comics, etc. The movies are tier one. They're unassailable, they're what happened. I think the EU is in the next tier, which is, anything that happens in them is basically canon until the movies contradict them. The tiers go on, but basically, the EU is called semi-canon to keep you buying it. An episode VII that doesn't adapt any of the EU is going to effectively reboot the EU. There's no way for them that isn't terribly, horribly fanwanky for them to make a movie set after ROTJ that keeps the EU. Now, that doesn't mean you should fight for the EU as it stands now: it's still there, you can read it if you want to. But Lucasfilm isn't married to keeping their own cash cow canon, not when they can make a new cash cow and say "this is the status quo."
Besides which, jesus, who wouldn't WANT to shit can it? Everything since the New Jedi Order started is varying levels of dreck starring increasingly senior citizen versions of the OT characters. If Disney intends to keep the property alive with movies and other releases, you don't NEED an EU to keep telling the story anymore. Let it go, Indiana.
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1. Movies
2. TV stuff
3. EU
4. Other
5. Not canon
Most franchises do:
1. Movies and/or TV
2. Not canon
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That's what Star Wars should have done, in my opinion, but it's almost like they were afraid they would hurt some authors' feelings or something. Now might be as good a time as any to make the separation: THIS is the story and THAT is fan fiction.
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While this doesn't effect my high hopes for the new films....this is highly disappointing news regarding the OT.
https://www.darkhorizons.com/news/25397/fox-still-owns-the-original-star-wars
That doesn't really mean anything; it still wouldn't necessarily mean Lucas owns the OT.
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While this doesn't effect my high hopes for the new films....this is highly disappointing news regarding the OT.
https://www.darkhorizons.com/news/25397/fox-still-owns-the-original-star-wars
That doesn't really mean anything; it still wouldn't necessarily mean Lucas owns the OT.
Specifically, I was referring to the insinuation that we may not get a BluRay release of the theatrical version of the OT. (which is what a lot of people, myself included, have been hoping for in light of this new deal)
But as you say, they don't know that for sure...so it *could* still happen. Someone at Fox would just have to decided that it was worth the time, money and effort spent to restore the film to its original version and then remaster it in High Def.
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Distributers who aren't Lucas are known to respond to consumer demand.
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Meh, consumer demand on that isn't as strong as many might think. As loud as people yell on message boards, most people are just fine with the current blu-rays. After all, the 2006 DVDs that contained the original cuts didn't sell that well, especially compared to the 2004 DVDs that only contained the new cuts. I know that's not the only factor in the equation, but still.
On some level, I hope they respect Lucas' decisions on the matter. The purchase seems to be friendly so far, it would be unfortunate to have one of the first moves be to go against the wishes of the guy who made it all possible.
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There were DVDs with the original cuts? I thought they had never been released outside of the original VHS run.
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The 2006 release of the DVDs included both the 2004 versions of the original trilogy and the unaltered versions lifted from the 1993 laserdiscs.
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Meh, consumer demand on that isn't as strong as many might think. As loud as people yell on message boards, most people are just fine with the current blu-rays. After all, the 2006 DVDs that contained the original cuts didn't sell that well, especially compared to the 2004 DVDs that only contained the new cuts. I know that's not the only factor in the equation, but still.
Not quite a test of how a properly restored OT would do though, since A. they were cheap laserdisc rips, and not remastered versions, and B. fans had to double dip on the exact same remastered version to get it anyway.
I think it would definitely be worth their time and money to properly restore the OT in HD.
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The 2006 release of the DVDs included both the 2004 versions of the original trilogy and the unaltered versions lifted from the 1993 laserdiscs.
Yup and i USED to have'em :(
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Meh, consumer demand on that isn't as strong as many might think. As loud as people yell on message boards, most people are just fine with the current blu-rays. After all, the 2006 DVDs that contained the original cuts didn't sell that well, especially compared to the 2004 DVDs that only contained the new cuts. I know that's not the only factor in the equation, but still.
On some level, I hope they respect Lucas' decisions on the matter. The purchase seems to be friendly so far, it would be unfortunate to have one of the first moves be to go against the wishes of the guy who made it all possible.
The 2006 release was a half-assed attempt to shut up the older fans (and curb the fan-edit subculture) and everyone knew it. The picture quality and sound on those DVDs were absolute ass even compared to the original laser discs, and on top of that, the LD versions of the films were not in the full anamorphic aspect ratio. The GOUT, as it has become known, was a slap in the face to all the fans with memories of a pre-1997 Star Wars, and that was why it didn't sell.
Collector and hard core fan opinion means more then you think. I don't know what it is like in the Star Wars fandom, but with Transformers, I know that collectors and older fans account for, on average, about 15% of sales. Now, that is no where near enough to mean that Hasbro and Takara should base their whole marketing strategies around pleasing collector's tastes, but it is large enough to be worth courting. That is why we have things like the Masterpiece Transformers and other toylines (as well as other media) that cater specifically to hardcore fans.
So, even if only 15% of Star Wars fans actually wanted to own a BluRay version of the original, unaltered trilogy (and I think that is a very conservative estimate), the profits from such a release would still be considerable enough to be worth the effort. Profit margins on DVD and BluRay discs are very high, so even if it really is only 1 in every 6 SW fans that would actually buy such a release, it would still be highly profitable to Lucasfilm.
Furthermore, with the storage capacity of bluray, why even divide up the releases? Why not just hedge their bets, and release all versions of the films on the same set? Would that not be the ultimate show of George's own faith in his revisions, to have them placed side by side with the classic versions for comparison? And considering how many other film makers release multiple cuts of their films on DVD (how many versions are there of Blade Runner? 5?), what is the harm in simply having those older editions available to the fans who want them?
As for respecting George's "artistic vision", bear in mind this was the same guy who testified before congress to stop the colourization of black and white films back in 1988 on the grounds that the original versions of those films were part of out cultural heritage, and should be preserved. The hypocrisy the man is capable of is astounding.....
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"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
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So, apparently the dude that made the Captain America movie wants to make a Boba Fett movie:https://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/07/19/captain-america-joe-johnston-on-marvel-films-winter-soldier-and-a-boba-fett-movie/ (https://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/07/19/captain-america-joe-johnston-on-marvel-films-winter-soldier-and-a-boba-fett-movie/)
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So, apparently the dude that made the Captain America movie wants to make a Boba Fett movie:https://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/07/19/captain-america-joe-johnston-on-marvel-films-winter-soldier-and-a-boba-fett-movie/ (https://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/07/19/captain-america-joe-johnston-on-marvel-films-winter-soldier-and-a-boba-fett-movie/)
And probably won't.
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So, apparently the dude that made the Captain America movie wants to make a Boba Fett movie:https://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/07/19/captain-america-joe-johnston-on-marvel-films-winter-soldier-and-a-boba-fett-movie/ (https://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/07/19/captain-america-joe-johnston-on-marvel-films-winter-soldier-and-a-boba-fett-movie/)
(https://johneaves.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/bountyhunters.jpg)
Watch each one of the bounty hunters get a movie, leading to a movie where they all have to learn to work together as a team or something.
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the lizard is really dumb. anyone who likes the lizard or would name their forum name after him is a complete moron who shouldn't be allowed to breathe.
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the lizard is really dumb. anyone who likes the lizard or would name their forum name after him is a complete moron who shouldn't be allowed to breathe.
:lol :lol :biggrin:
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https://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/05/star-wars-sequel-harrison-ford-han-solo-exclusive/
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https://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/11/05/star-wars-sequel-harrison-ford-han-solo-exclusive/
Guess he is getting bored or needs money or something, since he doesn't even really like the Han Solo character.
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Maybe he just thinks that someone else can do something better with the character.
My personal impression was never that he hated the character...but that he always thought George's dialog was complete and utter crap. I happen to agree with him.
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Hey I was thinking, does this Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm pertain to Indy stuff as well? And if so, what do you guys think about them going a Bond route with Indy where they make new movies until the end of time with a different actor playing him every few years, instead of 70 year old Harry Ford pretending he's still Indy?
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Hey I was thinking, does this Disney acquisition of Lucasfilm pertain to Indy stuff as well? And if so, what do you guys think about them going a Bond route with Indy where they make new movies until the end of time with a different actor playing him every few years, instead of 70 year old Harry Ford pretending he's still Indy?
Interesting. Not sure what to think of that idea just yet, but I know I don't hate it.
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I mean, do we even know for sure that Indy is included in the deal, or is it just Star Wars? Everything I've seen says "Lucasfilm" which from my understanding would include Indy, but I haven't seen any mention of him. Just stuff about how Mickey is going to violate Darth Vader and what not.
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With SW being the much larger of the two franchises, I'm guessing that everyone's attention just instantly went there. Add to that the fact that they made the announcement about a new trilogy being made and it's easy to see how everything else got overlooked.
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from wikipedia
In October 2012, The Walt Disney Company agreed to acquire Lucasfilm, granting Disney ownership rights to the Indiana Jones and Star Wars franchises. However, although Disney owns the intellectual property, Paramount Pictures continues to retain certain rights to future film installments of Indiana Jones.
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https://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a437189/star-wars-episode-7-to-be-written-by-toy-story-3s-michael-arndt.html
Michael Arndt will write the screenplay for the new Star Wars film, Lucasfilm has confirmed.
The writer - who won a 'Best Original Screenplay' Oscar for Little Miss Sunshine and was nominated for 'Best Adapted Screenplay' for Toy Story 3 in 2010 - was first linked to the project earlier this week.
Interesting.
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Those are both great movies.
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Indeed. There is definitely hope!
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A new hope.
*slap*
Sorry about that. Seriously though, they're moving right ahead with this, aren't they? I know the buzz was all about Episode VII, but for some reason I was figuring it probably wouldn't happen anyway. Looks like they're gonna try and make that deadline they set for themselves.
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Looks like they went right into this purchase with every intention to make immediate use of it. Maybe it has been in planning for longer than we realize behind the scenes.
And at least we know it can't be worse than the PT. It just can't.
Please don't take that as a challenge, Disney.
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https://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a437189/star-wars-episode-7-to-be-written-by-toy-story-3s-michael-arndt.html
Michael Arndt will write the screenplay for the new Star Wars film, Lucasfilm has confirmed.
The writer - who won a 'Best Original Screenplay' Oscar for Little Miss Sunshine and was nominated for 'Best Adapted Screenplay' for Toy Story 3 in 2010 - was first linked to the project earlier this week.
Interesting.
This is good news, I think!
I'm trying to be optimistic and continue thinking (read: hoping) that Disney hires legitimately talented people to make these movies. If that happens, I will be pleased!
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Looks like they went right into this purchase with every intention to make immediate use of it. Maybe it has been in planning for longer than we realize behind the scenes.
And at least we know it can't be worse than the PT. It just can't.
Please don't take that as a challenge, Disney.
I enjoyed the prequels overall. Phantom Menace was pretty bad but Attack of the Clones was fairly good, and I really like Revenge of the Sith, my second favourite behind Empire.
So if this can be better than all the prequels then I'll really enjoy it!
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I feel like TPM had way more redeeming features than AOTC. AOTC was a mess in pretty much every sense. It played out and was made like a bad made-for-TV movie.
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The Phantom Menace at least had that entertaining podrace.
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The Phantom Menace at least had that entertaining podrace.
And Darth Maul, the best Sith ever.
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The Phantom Menace at least had that entertaining podrace.
And Darth Maul, the best Sith ever.
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I feel like TPM had way more redeeming features than AOTC. AOTC was a mess in pretty much every sense. It played out and was made like a bad made-for-TV movie.
Yeah, Aside from Jar Jar, The Phantom Menace just had bland characters and a boring story. And there were some genuinely cool scenes, like the final fight and the pod race. AOTC and ROTS were just terrible in almost every way. Not just boring; bad.
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AOTC is difficult to enjoy because of how cheesy the love story is.
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And how whiny that woman is.
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And how whiny that woman is.
This is true. Anakin is quite whiny.
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Did Darth Maul do anything besides look cool to make people love him so much?
edit: answer: no.
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Did Darth Maul do anything besides look cool to make people love him so much?
Besides the fact that he was a master with lightsabers, and looked ready to start genocide?
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Nope. There was zero development in his character though there might have been something had they let him live passed the first movie. Then again people love Boba Fett and there's zero character development for him in the movies as well.
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All he was there for was to fight obi wan and liam neeson! He says, what, 3 words the entire film? Great character!
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Nope. There was zero development in his character though there might have been something had they let him live passed the first movie. Then again people love Boba Fett and there's zero character development for him in the movies as well.
In the official Dark Horse comics series, Darth Maul does live, and he fights to regain the Sith Throne, I mean technical it's not OFFICIAL movie line, but I'd say the Comics, especially now are very canon.
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Okay fine, in the film, he is a terrible character.
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Not even knowing that storyline existed (and I'm probably one of many), I can't agree with that. My vision of Maul comes from the one film, which is probably how many will view it.
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Nope. There was zero development in his character though there might have been something had they let him live passed the first movie. Then again people love Boba Fett and there's zero character development for him in the movies as well.
In the official Dark Horse comics series, Darth Maul does live, and he fights to regain the Sith Throne, I mean technical it's not OFFICIAL movie line, but I'd say the Comics, especially now are very canon.
How? Does he not get cut in two in the comics?
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He probably "kept himself alive with pure hate" or something ridiculous like that.
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He had the same surgeons as Ian Malcolm.
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Nope. There was zero development in his character though there might have been something had they let him live passed the first movie. Then again people love Boba Fett and there's zero character development for him in the movies as well.
In the official Dark Horse comics series, Darth Maul does live, and he fights to regain the Sith Throne, I mean technical it's not OFFICIAL movie line, but I'd say the Comics, especially now are very canon.
How? Does he not get cut in two in the comics?
And fall down a ridiculously deep shaft.
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He was nothing more than a henchman with a cool lightsaber, really.
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He was nothing more than a henchman with a cool lightsaber, really.
Completely not true, and I find it silly he'll still be written off as such, just because the movies alone didn't do him justice. The comics are still heavily followed, I myself found out about it from countless random people, jobs, school, etc, and come on it's a sci-fi story, that's darker than the movies, I'm sure it's not that much of a stretch that he could survive. Look at General Grievous, hell Darth Vader, you could call bullshit on him even living.
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OK but to most people that other stuff doesn't exist. I (along with orcus) am talking about the movies.
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But Darth Vader had several movies and key moments where his character was defined and changed to what we as a public can recognize as Darth Vader. I swear if Maul didn't have the double lightsaber he would've just been written off as some weirdo in face paint.
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Even then in the movies, he's a quiet character, and I feel the reason he was kind of kept under wraps in a sense for the movie was so when the fight came around, it would have everyone's jaws dropped, thinking "Holy.Shit." I mean the character just oozes evil and malice.
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Name one thing he actually did in the movie that was evil and malicious.
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Darth Maul is exactly what he needed to be. A single-episode bad-ass villain.
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Name one thing he actually did in the movie that was evil and malice.
Did I say he did anything? I said he oozes it, like personality-wise, just his demeanor. I'll admit he didn't get to do much in the movie, and that saddens me because he's one of my favorite characters, but he still killed Qui Gon and it's unfair to dismiss him based on the movies alone. Even if you don't follow the comics, they're still canon and lots of people follow them. I mean in the end you can still think he's a Henchman at most, but you'd be wrong, because he has a whole story behind him not on film.
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Well, if someone is to be considered evil sure they can look it but it really hits home when you actually see them do something about it. I mean in Star Wars Vader kills someone in the first few minutes and sits back and allows an entire planet to be destroyed. That's some cold blooded shit. Maul has a conversation with Sidious and then ends up in a lightsaber duel, BFD. Outside of his makeup, I can't remember one thing that actually made him the villain outside of Lucas dressing him up and going "HEY! HERE IS OUR VILLAIN!"
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Killing a Jedi master isn't villainous?
Also Vader had the advantage of being in control of the galaxy, at the point where Darth Maul came in, the Sith WERE the rebels.
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All he was there for was to fight obi wan and liam neeson! He says, what, 3 words the entire film? Great character!
And his voice was overdubbed by Peter Serafinowicz - who played Shaun's housemate Pete in Shaun Of The Dead.
Serafinowicz was also in SImon Pegg's sitcom Spaced where he repeats the Darth Maul line . . .
" At last we will have our revenge ".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTobD_PvTzE
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Killing a Jedi master isn't villainous?
Also Vader had the advantage of being in control of the galaxy, at the point where Darth Maul came in, the Sith WERE the rebels.
By the time that happens we're already well into the movie and he's minutes from being dead. Up until that point the audience is just assuming "Ok they may know each other but he's got a red lightsaber so I know he's the bad guy". That's pretty much all we're given up to that point.
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I remember most of the buzz around TPM was that
" Darth Maul has a double ended lightsaber . "
That's all anyone knew about him.
Then he's hardly in the actual film at all.
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Well it's obvious I'm not going to change any minds, so I'm done with the current conversation.
All I need to know is that Darth Maul is my favorite villain, and whether the movies show it or not, he's pretty damned evil and awesome.
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All the people saying Maul was just a good with a double edged lightsaber are correct.
However, to be fair he had a double edged lightsaber.
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The comics are still heavily followed
Not really. antigoon and orcus are 100% right.
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The comics are still heavily followed
Not really. antigoon and orcus are 100% right.
How would you know that? It's one of Dark Horse's most popular series :L
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No one doubts the diehards following those kinds of stories but for the majority of people that have seen TPM, Maul is exactly what was shown in the movie.
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Also, even if most people were familiar with his character from the comics, that wouldn't excuse the movies relying on those comics to fill in gaps in its own lack of proper character development. In the movies he's a super shallow character. If he's more in the comics then great, but I'm not reading the comics.
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They should bring Darth Maul back for the new episode. Some how both of his halves survive the fall and fuse back together (probably a cool thing his race can do.) . A much older, yet more acrobatic version of him becomes the new bad guy.
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They should bring Darth Maul back for the new episode. Some how both of his halves survive the fall and fuse back together (probably a cool thing his race can do.) . A much older, yet more acrobatic version of him becomes the new bad guy.
This is a terrible idea. But a good joke. Not sure how you intended it.
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I'm looking forward to seeing R2 and 3PO in the new ones also. Gonna be great!
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Did Lucas once say that the saga was always meant to be nine episodes, and that R2-D2 and C-3PO are the only characters to appear in all nine?
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They should bring Darth Maul back for the new episode. Some how both of his halves survive the fall and fuse back together (probably a cool thing his race can do.) . A much older, yet more acrobatic version of him becomes the new bad guy.
This is a terrible idea. But a good joke. Not sure how you intended it.
In a way, yes, it was a joke in that I can't see this ever even being considered. I do think that LucasArts could do to add more depth to this otherwise one-dimensional character.
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But why? I mean the new movies will be set what.....like 70 years after TPM? Why the hell even bother with anyone from the prequels at that point? Wouldn't it be better to learn from the mistake of his writing, and create a new, better, more well written character?
Plus if anyone was wondering exactly why Darth Maul came off as awesome without actually doing a whole lot, well I attribute that mostly to the actor playing him, who is indeed amazingly awesome.
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Did Lucas once say that the saga was always meant to be nine episodes, and that R2-D2 and C-3PO are the only characters to appear in all nine?
I think that it was originally supposed to be 12, but I could be wrong.
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The comics are still heavily followed
Not really. antigoon and orcus are 100% right.
How would you know that? It's one of Dark Horse's most popular series :L
Great, which means that exactly one half of 1 percent of the Star Wars fanbase knows anything about it.
If it didn't happen on-screen, it didn't happen. Marvel ran a comic series in the 70s and 80s, it ran forever and had some cool stories, and none of it really counted. It was just stories for the fanbase to read between films.
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Did Lucas once say that the saga was always meant to be nine episodes, and that R2-D2 and C-3PO are the only characters to appear in all nine?
Regardless of what he said or not, that's a pile of shit. Lucas is one of the least reliable people to talk to about Star Wars.
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He does say a lot of things in retrospect too, especially when explaining what he really[i/] meant to do, etc.
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Does Lucas have any involvement in the Star Wars comics?
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Does Lucas have any involvement in the Star Wars comics?
I sincerely doubt it.
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Not entirely true. There is limited control, they have some restrictions on what they can do and the Lucas business maintains the continuity between products.
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Not entirely true. There is limited control, they have some restrictions on what they can do and the Lucas business maintains the continuity between products.
The question mentioned "Lucas" so I took it as George himself. I have no doubt that people working for him coordinated all that stuff.
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He's the one that placed some restrictions, though. I think he guided a few characters that could or could not die, if not what exactly happened to them. He's also the one that decided to adapt certain things from the EU into the films.
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He's the one that placed some restrictions, though. I think he guided a few characters that could or could not die, if not what exactly happened to them. He's also the one that decided to adapt certain things from the EU into the films.
I still doubt that any of that stuff actually landed on him, and not people who worked for him.
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Those are the things I think he had a direct say in. He wanted certain characters protected and chose to adapt things like Corruscant's name.
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So how about the guy who wrote Toy Story 3 and Little Miss Sunshine writing the script for Episode 7?
Me? I'm cautiously optimistic, rather than a constant facepalm like when it was first announced.
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Pretty sure they're going to play it VERY safe. Which means we'll likely get a movie that is fine. Not bad, not great. Just fine.
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So how about the guy who wrote Toy Story 3 and Little Miss Sunshine writing the script for Episode 7?
Me? I'm cautiously optimistic, rather than a constant facepalm like when it was first announced.
I think it's a great choice. He's proven within the industry, but still new enough that he's probably still very ambitious and hungry. Also, he showed with Toy Story 3 that he can look at the pre-existing creative voice of a franchise and reproduce it without it feeling forced.
If you don't like the choice, then who else should do it?
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So how about the guy who wrote Toy Story 3 and Little Miss Sunshine writing the script for Episode 7?
Me? I'm cautiously optimistic, rather than a constant facepalm like when it was first announced.
I think it's a great choice. He's proven within the industry, but still new enough that he's probably still very ambitious and hungry. Also, he showed with Toy Story 3 that he can look at the pre-existing creative voice of a franchise and reproduce it without it feeling forced.
If you don't like the choice, then who else should do it?
I think the writing team should be Damon Lindolf, Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. The directing team (should be 2 people, not just one) should be Michael Bay and Roland Emerech.
BAM!
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add M. Night Shamalamadingdong and you have a winner!
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add M. Night Shamalamadingdong and you have a winner!
aaaaaand we have a winner!
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add M. Night Shamalamadingdong and you have a winner!
Haha. I started calling him that too before I saw anyone else do it.
Guess it must just be such an obvious joke :rollin
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Sadly Shamablahblahblah can't really add anything to Star Wars as the only scene he could have directed was already in Jedi.
You all know which scene it is.
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Nope.
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Nope.
The scene where Vader turns out to be Luke.
This is of course assuming it's actually in Jedi and not Empire. Might be my bad there.
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It was in Empire.
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It was in Empire.
.................
.....your mom was in empire.
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It's when Luke sees dead people. Or hears them, or something.
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C3PO takes off his mask and it's M. Night.
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C3PO takes off his mask and it's M. Night.
C3PO takes off his mask and it's the kid from 6th sense.
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C-3PO takes off his mask and it's R2.
....oh yes.
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add M. Night Shamalamadingdong and you have a winner!
Haha. I started calling him that too before I saw anyone else do it.
Guess it must just be such an obvious joke :rollin
I did as well. Animal House fans, anyone?
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Otis Day and the Knights!
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All the people saying Maul was just a good with a double edged lightsaber are correct.
However, to be fair he had a double edged lightsaber.
The only two questions left to ask are, how did he get the double lightsaber and why was that model taken off the market in the rest of the films? :rollin
I think Disney should make a pre prequel to explain where the double lightsaber came from and in episode 7, explain what happened to it :P
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Episode 0 : Yoda's Ill - fated Jedi Weapons Emporium.
Episode 7 - The Sith Buyout of Yoda's ill- fated Jedi Weapons Emporium.
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All the people saying Maul was just a good with a double edged lightsaber are correct.
However, to be fair he had a double edged lightsaber.
The only two questions left to ask are, how did he get the double lightsaber and why was that model taken off the market in the rest of the films? :rollin
I think Disney should make a pre prequel to explain where the double lightsaber came from and in episode 7, explain what happened to it :P
Well it seems most of the Sith and Jedi built their own light sabers, at least I gathered that from Luke building his own and Obi-Wan and Vader acting like that was normal. Now, the Jedi didn't need double edged sabers because they're humble and don't need to show off....you know beyond the occasional gymnastics display. And we've only seen 2 other sith fight with sabers, Vader and Palpatine. Vader probably didn't have one because he was used to a single edged one and probably didn't practice much after losing all of his limbs. Palpatine was probably all old fashioned about it "Back in my day, Light Sabers came in only one color damnit! And we loved it!".
And don't even mention Grievous, he had what..4 of them? Pretty sure a double edged one would have sliced him in half by accident.
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All the people saying Maul was just a good with a double edged lightsaber are correct.
However, to be fair he had a double edged lightsaber.
The only two questions left to ask are, how did he get the double lightsaber and why was that model taken off the market in the rest of the films? :rollin
I think Disney should make a pre prequel to explain where the double lightsaber came from and in episode 7, explain what happened to it :P
They build their own as part of their training. If Maul saw fit to make a double one and nobody else did... well, too bad for them.
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Don't forget Darth Tyrannus and his weird curvy scimitar sabers.
I loved being able to be a Jedi (or Sith) who used double-edged lightsabers in the KOTOR games. That was awesome.
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I'm more partial to dual-wielding than the double-bladed saber. Hope they have some cats do that in the new movies.
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Don't forget Darth Tyrannus and his weird curvy scimitar sabers.
I loved being able to be a Jedi (or Sith) who used double-edged lightsabers in the KOTOR games. That was awesome.
I am only talking about the movies. The video games and tv shows and comics have like 10000000 sith who all have insane sabers.
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How far do you think they should push the lightsaber fights? All but Episode III would save them for the climax (which was cool), and then Ep III itself had like 5 duels or something (which was lame).
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I think they need to get back into putting meaning behind the fights. I think the prequels went as far into the crazy jumping around super choreographed domain that it just got stupid near the end. If they try to top themselves, it'll just be ridiculous.
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Darth Maul's duel didn't have meaning, but it was still really tasteful. It wasn't super flashy either.
-
Darth Maul's duel didn't have meaning, but it was still really tasteful. It wasn't super flashy either.
I agree, and it was the only one.
And, as I stated before, the reason for Darth Mauls awesomeness was mostly attributed to the guy who played him. And of all the guys fighting with light sabers in any of the movies, he was the only one who really knew what he was doing. And it showed.
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I agree. And I think TPM would've benefited from more Maul.
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I dunno, Hayden Christensen (hate his acting if you want) is very skilled at martial arts and it really showed in his duels, too.
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I agree. And I think TPM would've benefited from more Maul.
I dunno, I think Lucas Mauled it enough :neverusethis:
I dunno, Hayden Christensen (hate his acting if you want) is very skilled at martial arts and it really showed in his duels, too.
I don't know about Hayden (is this a comradery thing?) but you can't compare him to Ray Park. One is an actor, one is a professional awesome.
Yea, I used awesome as a noun.
-
Wat
Is this real?
https://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/357610
Following news that Disney has bought the rights to the lucrative sci-fi franchise and plans to make at least three more movies, industry insiders say the evil Vader will grace the big screen again.
“He’s an integral part of the franchise. Replacing him is virtually impossible,” explains a film mole.
“The plan is for him to return and play a significant role in the new films.”
Former bodybuilder turned actor David Prowse donned the black body armour in the original three films but the character was voiced by James Earl Jones.
Actor Hayden Christensen, who starred in the subsequent Star Wars prequels, was the last actor to appear in the suit following his character Anakin Skywalker’s descent to the Dark Side.
Writer Michael Arndt is already working on the new Star Wars scripts.
The plan is for Darth Vader to return and play a significant role in the new films.
Fellow old favourites Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Princess Leia – played by Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher – have already been tipped to reprise their respective roles.
While Vader seemingly met his end in the 1983 film The Return Of The Jedi it seems this will not stop his comeback.
“This is science fiction remember,” we’re told. “Darth Vader will rise from the ashes.”
-
pls
no
-
I sincerely hope that's a bogus rumor.
-
Vader the friendly ghost.
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By the way, of course it's fake. Notice they didn't source......anything?
-
Don't forget Darth Tyrannus and his weird curvy scimitar sabers.
I loved being able to be a Jedi (or Sith) who used double-edged lightsabers in the KOTOR games. That was awesome.
I am only talking about the movies. The video games and tv shows and comics have like 10000000 sith who all have insane sabers.
Darth Tyrannus = Count Dooku. I just didn't want to type out his really stupid name.
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I dunno, Hayden Christensen (hate his acting if you want) is very skilled at martial arts and it really showed in his duels, too.
He's been great in other movies. He sucked in Star Wars, but that's all on Lucas and his terrible storyline and script. Liam Neeson sucked in Star Wars, too, and so did Christopher Lee.
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The only other Hayden Christensen movies I've seen were Jumper (which was okay) and Shattered Glass (which was pretty good, except he was still awkward crybaby Anakin). So my opinion is still fairly negative :P
-
Wat
Is this real?
https://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/357610
Following news that Disney has bought the rights to the lucrative sci-fi franchise and plans to make at least three more movies, industry insiders say the evil Vader will grace the big screen again.
“He’s an integral part of the franchise. Replacing him is virtually impossible,” explains a film mole.
“The plan is for him to return and play a significant role in the new films.”
Former bodybuilder turned actor David Prowse donned the black body armour in the original three films but the character was voiced by James Earl Jones.
Actor Hayden Christensen, who starred in the subsequent Star Wars prequels, was the last actor to appear in the suit following his character Anakin Skywalker’s descent to the Dark Side.
Writer Michael Arndt is already working on the new Star Wars scripts.
The plan is for Darth Vader to return and play a significant role in the new films.
Fellow old favourites Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Princess Leia – played by Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher – have already been tipped to reprise their respective roles.
While Vader seemingly met his end in the 1983 film The Return Of The Jedi it seems this will not stop his comeback.
“This is science fiction remember,” we’re told. “Darth Vader will rise from the ashes.”
If this is true, and I'm sure it is because when they see Darth Vader, they see $$$$, I wouldn't put it passed them to bring Boba Fett as well.
-
If Vader comes back evil, Jedi loses a lot of meaning. Heck the first 6 get downgraded. Rumors can just be speculation, I think they'd have to be stupid to do it.
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The only other Hayden Christensen movies I've seen were Jumper (which was okay) and Shattered Glass (which was pretty good, except he was still awkward crybaby Anakin). So my opinion is still fairly negative :P
I thought he was great in Shattered Glass. He was good in another movie, too. I forget what it was.
-
Wat
Is this real?
https://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/357610
Insane rumour of both Vader, coming back as well as Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford reprising their roles.
Main reason I see it as fake is the fact that Hamill, Fisher, and Ford are coming back to play the same roles they did 20 years ago
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I was just thinking about what exactly is wrong with the prequels. I love them as they are nostalgic movies from my childhood, but objectively speaking I can see why people have issues with them. Is it mostly due to Ep II and III? Ep I is pretty solid for what it is and doesn't get too much scorn. Unfortunately with Ep II and III, we're introduced to a whole new cast of actors, along with a plethora of mediocre subplots that doesn't give the characters any room to breathe. I wonder if you could fix this problem by removing parts of Ep II (including Count Dooku and the sandpeople stuff) and by moving parts of Ep III to Ep II (like Padme's impending death and perhaps the Windu vs Sidious duel).
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Ep I doesn't get much scorn? It's the lowest rated of any of the Star Wars movies by both critics and fans on Rotten Tomatoes. I find it unwatchable simply due to Jar Jar.
-
Really? I thought Ep I was exactly what was called for. It introduced a whole new world where the Republic was strong, you had a number of different planets and environments, you had an an awesome space battle and lightsaber duel, and you had a cast of some really memorable characters (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Watto, Sebulba, Darth Maul, Anakin kinda). I think it's easily the best of the prequels and probably better than some of the originals.
-
Episode 1 suffered from 2 major things.
1. Jar Jar
2. It couldn't decide if it was a real movie or a little kids movie and thus pissed off everyone but the little kids.
-
I like to think that TPM is the best of the prequel movies, but then I remember there's a huge, 100 percent CGI battle between Gungans and Driods somewhere in there.
-
It introduced a whole new world where the Republic was strong, you had a number of different planets and environments, you had an an awesome space battle and lightsaber duel, and you had a cast of some really memorable characters (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Watto, Sebulba, Darth Maul, Anakin kinda).
It should have been awesome because of these things. Unfortunately in addition to Jar Jar it suffered from poor storytelling and writing.
-
Jar Jar was really not that bad. I liked him, okie-day?
-
It introduced a whole new world where the Republic was strong, you had a number of different planets and environments, you had an an awesome space battle and lightsaber duel, and you had a cast of some really memorable characters (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Watto, Sebulba, Darth Maul, Anakin kinda).
It should have been awesome because of these things. Unfortunately in addition to Jar Jar it suffered from poor storytelling and writing.
Jar Jar gets a lot of slack, and he definitely downgrades the movie, but it wouldn't have been great without him either.
In the end, characters like Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Darth Maul and so forth were ONLY good characters because of the actors playing them. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and Ray Park made those characters likeable and cool, not the writing or the directing.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgOdha0VwA&feature=related
-
Anyone ever play this game?:
(https://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/601/271086-starwars_racer_super.jpg)
Maybe it enhanced the Ep I experience a little bit.
-
Jar Jar was really not that bad. I liked him, okie-day?
hey, I don't want to take your joy away. I am basically relaying what a majority of movie critics and everyday movie-goers have been saying about the film since its release.
-
Anyone ever play this game?:
(https://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/601/271086-starwars_racer_super.jpg)
Maybe it enhanced the Ep I experience a little bit.
yeah. It had nothing on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm87wTrtgWs
-
Anyone ever play this game?:
(https://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/601/271086-starwars_racer_super.jpg)
Maybe it enhanced the Ep I experience a little bit.
Ohh instant flashback even though i think i only played the demo! :lol
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We used to have the Episode I podracing game for Nintendo 64. It was fun. It was so long ago that I really don't remember much else, but that kinda looks like it.
-
Jar Jar was really not that bad. I liked him, okie-day?
hey, I don't want to take your joy away. I am basically relaying what a majority of movie critics and everyday movie-goers have been saying about the film since its release.
Yeah, Jar-Jar was awful.
There is no "best of the prequels." They were all equally bad. They each had some really cool stuff, but they each had some really crappy stuff as well.
-
Anyone ever play this game?:
(https://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/601/271086-starwars_racer_super.jpg)
Maybe it enhanced the Ep I experience a little bit.
That was the first video game I ever played on the N64 I got for my fifth birthday!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgOdha0VwA&feature=related
Was that some kind of deleted scene?
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Edit
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Edit
That sounds extremely interesting. I'll have to try to track that down.
-
Things I'd love to see in the new films:
- chick Jedi
- chick Sith
- more different sabre colours
- bigger & badder Force powers (ie. punch the ground for a Force wave)
- blue milk
Things I really hope are NOT in the new films:
- politics
- dumbed-down and simplified storytelling
- stupid villians (ie. Darth Maul standing there while Obiwan flips over him and cuts him in half)
-
I only want 3 things from the new movies.
1. Good writing/story telling
2. Good directing
3. Good acting
I don't need crazy gymnastics or eye candy or action sequences that assume the audience has ADD.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgOdha0VwA&feature=related
Beauitfully edited. :lol :clap:
-
Anyone ever play this game?:
(https://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/601/271086-starwars_racer_super.jpg)
Maybe it enhanced the Ep I experience a little bit.
I love that game. It also made me more fond of the podracer characters. One of my favorite things about Star Wars is all the wacky aliens, so I love scenes like the Cantina and Jabba's Palace. :coolio
I think the prequels could have used more whimsy and humor (Jar Jar was a failed attempt). The original trilogy was pretty lighthearted in a lot of ways. Even ESB, a supposedly "dark" movie, had a lot of fun in it like Yoda's first scene and all the banter between Han and Leia. Obi-Wan was one of the bright spots of the prequels for me because he had some of that witty, sarcastic thing going, especially in AOTC.
-
Also, yes. I played the shit out of that podracing game.
-
That podracing game was really fun. This could just be my childhood speaking, but I definitely think Episode I was the best of the prequels. It wasn't a good movie, but the others, I think, were worse.
-
They were all pretty boring.
-
I only want 3 things from the new movies.
1. Good writing/story telling
2. Good directing
3. Good acting
I don't need crazy gymnastics or eye candy or action sequences that assume the audience has ADD.
Fucking THIS.
-
Pretty much that, although I have to admit, I do like gymnastics that assume the audience has SUBTRACT or MULTIPLY.
-
lol
-
I don't need crazy gymnastics or eye candy or action sequences that assume the audience has ADD.
Easy there, I have ADD. I can watch Seven Samurai in one sitting...
-
I don't need crazy gymnastics or eye candy or action sequences that assume the audience has ADD.
Easy there, I have ADD. I can watch Seven Samurai in one sitting...
I'm sorry if I have offended you and the ADD community, I feel...............hey look over there!
-
I don't need crazy gymnastics or eye candy or action sequences that assume the audience has ADD.
Easy there, I have ADD. I can watch Seven Samurai in one sitting...
I'm sorry if I have offended you and the ADD community, I feel...............hey look over there!
Meh, I'm medicated anyway :lol
-
I have ADD and I was able to get through Rashomon just fine...or forget that, even Gone With the Wind.
-
https://kotaku.com/5960715/lucasfilm-wants-to-make-two-or-three-movies-a-year-thats-a-lot-of-star-wars
Disney wants to make 2 or 3 SW films a year...........
-
https://kotaku.com/5960715/lucasfilm-wants-to-make-two-or-three-movies-a-year-thats-a-lot-of-star-wars
Disney wants to make 2 or 3 SW films a year...........
lol pretty sure that's a misquote. I think they meant A film every 2-3 years. Which is what they said earlier.
-
Probably, although if they were talking tv movies 2-3 a year wouldn't be unthinkable. It'd basically be something akin to a regular miniseries while leaving the major features for movie theaters.
edit: There's really no reason to think if they did 2-3 a year that they would all be targeting the same audiences, too.
-
I'd quite like to see The Passion Of The Binks.
A 2 hour film whereby Jar Jar is tortured.
I'd go see it.
-
I think Jar-Jar is fine. Film could've done without him, but I don't have as much of a problem with him as most people.
I'd quite like to see The Passion Of The Binks.
A 2 hour film whereby Jar Jar is tortured.
I'd go see it.
What a horrible thought.
-
I'd quite like to see The Passion Of The Binks.
A 2 hour film whereby Jar Jar is tortured.
I'd go see it.
I'd like to see a different kind of "passion" of the Binks.
-
Jar Jar is atrocious, but people should just move on. Sometimes the hate goes a little overboard.
-
I re-watched all six movies over the past two days, since a friend admitted to have never seen them. 4,5,6 were great and a lot of fun as usual (and my friend agreed). 1 and 2 were worse than I remembered, and I remembered them as being horrible. Especially episode 1 is absolutely atrocious. 3 I still find fun to watch and get's close to episode 6 in my opinion (Which I like least of the OT. Although the final confrontation is amazing of course).
-
Episode 1 is really bad. the only good part is the podraces. I love the podraces.
-
One of the worst parts of Episode 3 was when Padme names the kids. It's like:
*dying*
*baby*
"Luke"
*even more dying*
*baby*
"Leia"
x_x
-
Yeah, her death was really really bad writing.
-
One of the worst parts of Episode 3 was when Padme names the kids. It's like:
*dying*
*baby*
"Luke"
*even more dying*
*baby*
"Leia"
x_x
YES.
It also brings up a HUGE continuity issue between ROTS and ROTJ, from how things in ROTJ were presented. The conversation between Luke and Leia (before Luke has the final confrontation with Vader and Palpatine) leads you to believe that their separation from their mother happened later than it was depicted in ROTS - probably before or around the time that they were 2 to 3 years old. I mean really - how can Leia have memories from when she was a fetus and from when she was just seconds old? It also leads you to believe that, per the ROTJ assumption, Anakin/Vader did NOT cause their mother's death - that their mother (Padme?! Please... ) went off the grid to hide from Anakin/Vader and died of something besides being pushed/choked by Anakin.
Unless Leia went fully sentient in the womb like Alia did in Dune (after Jessica took The Water of Life to become the Arrakeen Bene Gesserit Mother) and I HIGHLY doubt that that was Lucas's intent to mix worlds like that. :lol
-
Unless, Leia went fully sentient in the womb like Alia did in Dune (after Jessica took The Water of Life to become the Arrakeen Bene Gesserit Mother) and I HIGHLY doubt that that was Lucas's intent. :lol
Probably not, but that would be pretty awesome.
-
Leia's a Bene Gesserit witch!!! :omg:
:rollin
-
DTF, I have a proposition to make:
I think we, as a forum, should officially retcon the Prequel Trilogy. All in favor, say aye.
(Aye)
And yes, I will be counting your votes.
-
AYE. :yarr
-
Aye.
I don't actually have a problem with the prequel trilogy (I enjoyed them), but I would like to see what the DTF would come up with anyway. Especially if it involves Dune crossovers and Leia being sentient in the womb.
-
I would like to see what the DTF would come up with anyway. Especially if it involves Dune crossovers and Leia being sentient in the womb.
:2metal:
-
May I also suggest a miniature lightsaber duel between the twins inside Padme?
-
DTF, I have a proposition to make:
I think we, as a forum, should officially retcon the Prequel Trilogy. All in favor, say aye.
(Aye)
And yes, I will be counting your votes.
What is retcon? Rewrite? I'm all for it.
-
May I also suggest a miniature lightsaber duel between the twins inside Padme?
Nah. Leia turns cannibal and eats Luke in the womb.
-
Unless, Leia went fully sentient in the womb like Alia did in Dune (after Jessica took The Water of Life to become the Arrakeen Bene Gesserit Mother) and I HIGHLY doubt that that was Lucas's intent. :lol
Probably not, but that would be pretty awesome.
I understood that :blob:
-
:lol
-
May I also suggest a miniature lightsaber duel between the twins inside Padme?
Nah. Leia turns cannibal and eats Luke in the womb.
Awesome idea, but I'm pretty sure that would also be retconning the original trilogy, too. I think A New Hope would go quite a lot differently if Luke was eaten before birth. :lol
-
Yeah, that's a really good point. :lol
Mini-lightsaber womb duel it could be... :metal
-
Unless Leia went fully sentient in the womb like Alia did in Dune (after Jessica took The Water of Life to become the Arrakeen Bene Gesserit Mother) and I HIGHLY doubt that that was Lucas's intent to mix worlds like that. :lol
Don't forget, one of the things Greedo mentioned was that Han dumped a load of spice when he was about to be boarded (or something very much like that, but it was definitely spice).
-
Unless Leia went fully sentient in the womb like Alia did in Dune (after Jessica took The Water of Life to become the Arrakeen Bene Gesserit Mother) and I HIGHLY doubt that that was Lucas's intent to mix worlds like that. :lol
Don't forget, one of the things Greedo mentioned was that Han dumped a load of spice when he was about to be boarded (or something very much like that, but it was definitely spice).
AHA - something I missed! Great catch, dude!
-
Aye!
-
I mean really - how can Leia have memories from when she was a fetus and from when she was just seconds old? It also leads you to believe that, per the ROTJ assumption, Anakin/Vader did NOT cause their mother's death - that their mother (Padme?! Please... ) went off the grid to hide from Anakin/Vader and died of something besides being pushed/choked by Anakin.
While I agree with you, her statements can be easily written off as mistaken memories. They sense each other as siblings and memories have contructed themselves to explain what they were sensing. Both of them might be assuming Leia's adoptive mother is their real mother, too.
-
Or we could just inject a dose of reality and forgive Lucas that he couldn't cleanly connect all the dots between OT and prequels?
-
I mean really - how can Leia have memories from when she was a fetus and from when she was just seconds old? It also leads you to believe that, per the ROTJ assumption, Anakin/Vader did NOT cause their mother's death - that their mother (Padme?! Please... ) went off the grid to hide from Anakin/Vader and died of something besides being pushed/choked by Anakin.
While I agree with you, her statements can be easily written off as mistaken memories. They sense each other as siblings and memories have contructed themselves to explain what they were sensing. Both of them might be assuming Leia's adoptive mother is their real mother, too.
I'm assuming we're talking about the line "somehow I've always known." In that case I always took it for Leia's implied force sensitivity, just like how she knows Luke got off the Death Star in time. The timeframe of when they were separated doesn't matter whether they remember each other or not.
-
Out of all the continuity errors between the original trilogy and the prequels, that's a pretty insignificant one.
-
Or we could just inject a dose of reality and forgive Lucas that he couldn't cleanly connect all the dots between OT and prequels?
I wasn't trying to be critical of him, I was trying to point out it's just not that serious a problem since they weren't talking about rock solid facts. Yeah, it doesn't fit, but they don't really know what happened like we do.
-
Or we could just inject a dose of reality and forgive Lucas that he couldn't cleanly connect all the dots between OT and prequels?
Well it was never just Lucas's fault. Sure he wrote it, but no one dared to challenge him or make any changes. Movie's are a group effort, and everyone contributed to their failures, even if just by doing nothing.
-
Or we could just inject a dose of reality and forgive Lucas that he couldn't cleanly connect all the dots between OT and prequels?
Nope.
TATOOINE WAS ARAKIS
-
Where were all of the sandworms?
-
Is it wrong that I wanna see Orlando Bloom play a Jedi?
-random-
-
Is it wrong that I wanna see Orlando Bloom play a Jedi?
-random-
Hm.......no. I'm okay with it.
-
Where were all of the sandworms?
Boba Fett fell into one, didn't he?
The bigger question is how did a sandworm get onto an asteroid for the Millennium Falcon to mistake for a cave?
-
Is it wrong that I wanna see Orlando Bloom play a Jedi?
-random-
Hm.......no. I'm okay with it.
So it's settled then. Orlando Bloom shall star in the new series. Let's start writing our letters to Disney / Lucasfilm....
-
Where were all of the sandworms?
They used 'em all up at the Tattooine Tequila plant that supplied the Mos Eisley cantina.
-
DTF, I have a proposition to make:
I think we, as a forum, should officially retcon the Prequel Trilogy. All in favor, say aye.
(Aye)
And yes, I will be counting your votes.
You, sir, are a brilliant and wise human being, and I am proud to know you. Aye!
-
Worst casting for Star Wars VII :
Vader : Jim Carrey
Luke Skywalker : Matthew Broderick
Han Solo : Rob Schneider
Leia : Julianne Moore.
Yoda : CGI thing voiced by Seth McFarlane.
-
Where were all of the sandworms?
They used 'em all up at the Tattooine Tequila plant that supplied the Mos Eisley cantina.
Oh my gosh! That's crazy!
-
I just bump this here if anyone is interested:
Still Untitled: The Adam Savage Project - Star Wars (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vg-rYlytBY&feature=plcp)
Pretty interesting table discussion about Disney buying Star Wars.
-
The one in the middle...is he the guy from Mythbusters??
EDIT: Never mind...it is.
-
I mean really - how can Leia have memories from when she was a fetus and from when she was just seconds old? It also leads you to believe that, per the ROTJ assumption, Anakin/Vader did NOT cause their mother's death - that their mother (Padme?! Please... ) went off the grid to hide from Anakin/Vader and died of something besides being pushed/choked by Anakin.
While I agree with you, her statements can be easily written off as mistaken memories. They sense each other as siblings and memories have contructed themselves to explain what they were sensing. Both of them might be assuming Leia's adoptive mother is their real mother, too.
Well... okay, I can climb aboard with that.
I'm assuming we're talking about the line "somehow I've always known." In that case I always took it for Leia's implied force sensitivity, just like how she knows Luke got off the Death Star in time. The timeframe of when they were separated doesn't matter whether they remember each other or not.
I was actually referring to the part of the conversation where Leia is mentioning her memory flashes of their mother, but Leia's statement that she's somehow always known that Luke is her brother could be taken for my original statement too. However, that - as you mentioned - could go with the increased force sensitivity first shown towards Luke in TESB.
Out of all the continuity errors between the original trilogy and the prequels, that's a pretty insignificant one.
True, but it bothers me nonetheless.
Or we could just inject a dose of reality and forgive Lucas that he couldn't cleanly connect all the dots between OT and prequels?
Nope.
TATOOINE WAS ARAKIS
Yusssssss :2metal:
Where were all of the sandworms?
Boba Fett fell into one, didn't he?
:lol
The bigger question is how did a sandworm get onto an asteroid for the Millennium Falcon to mistake for a cave?
Easy - foldspace technology.
Where were all of the sandworms?
They used 'em all up at the Tattooine Tequila plant that supplied the Mos Eisley cantina.
:lol :rollin :lol
-
So............Lawrence Kasdan is going to write and produce either episode VIII or IX (or both I guess).
Yup.
-
So............Lawrence Kasdan is going to write and produce either episode VIII or IX (or both I guess).
Yup.
I wasn't familiar with him, so I looked him up on wiki. I started to get excited until I read that he did Dream Catcher and then it deflated my enthusiasm a little bit.
-
So............Lawrence Kasdan is going to write and produce either episode VIII or IX (or both I guess).
Yup.
I wasn't familiar with him, so I looked him up on wiki. I started to get excited until I read that he did Dream Catcher and then it deflated my enthusiasm a little bit.
He wrote Empire.
One bad movie shouldn't upset you too much.
-
Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of the movies that he's done, but that one bad movie really was bad enough to scare me off.
-
Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of the movies that he's done, but that one bad movie really was bad enough to scare me off.
It was pretty terrible. But even the best do a crappy movie.
I mean, not Kubrick or Aranofsky or anything, but most of them.
-
Kasdan is the man for the job, at least if he hasn't lost too much of his writing knack. The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and Raiders of the Lost Ark are all in my top ten favorite movies.
-
Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of the movies that he's done, but that one bad movie really was bad enough to scare me off.
It was pretty terrible. But even the best do a crappy movie.
I mean, not Kubrick or Aranofsky or anything, but most of them.
*cough**cough*eyeswideshut*cough*
-
Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of the movies that he's done, but that one bad movie really was bad enough to scare me off.
It was pretty terrible. But even the best do a crappy movie.
I mean, not Kubrick or Aranofsky or anything, but most of them.
*cough**cough*eyeswideshut*cough*
That movie is incredible. What are you talking about?
-
Don't get me wrong. I love a lot of the movies that he's done, but that one bad movie really was bad enough to scare me off.
It was pretty terrible. But even the best do a crappy movie.
I mean, not Kubrick or Aranofsky or anything, but most of them.
*cough**cough*eyeswideshut*cough*
Is a fine movie. But you should see someone about that cough.
-
Adami
o/
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I don't want to get too far off topic. But as a Kubrick *fan*...and having always loved his films...even as someone who has a great fondness for strange and unusual and misunderstood movies...I can say without hesitation that Eyes Wide Shut is surpassed only by Manos: The Hands of Fate as the single worst piece of dreck ever put to film.
But obviously, your mileage may vary. :corn
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I don't want to get too far off topic. But as a Kubrick *fan*...and having always loved his films...even as someone who has a great fondness for strange and unusual and misunderstood movies...I can say without hesitation that Eyes Wide Shut is surpassed only by Manos: The Hands of Fate as the single worst piece of dreck ever put to film.
But obviously, your mileage may vary. :corn
10 paces?
I am a huge Kubrick fan too, I have every thing he did minus the few nosnense films he did very early on his career.
If you want to consider one of his movies a failure, I'll give you The Killing. Eyes Wide Shut isn't as good as most of his other work, but it's largely a good misunderstood film.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
Get out.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
No, it's a good movie, it's just a bad adaptation.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
No, it's a good movie, it's just a bad adaptation.
This, and for the record this also applies to the Scott Pilgrim movie.
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How can a good movie be a bad adaptation?
The only thing I can think of that might fit this criteria off the top of my head is Starship Troopers, which (wonderfully) went the other way with its source material.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
Um... WAT?! (https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/bizarredevotedfan/Randomness/blink2.gif)
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How can a good movie be a bad adaptation?
It's a bad adaptation. Kubrick didn't fully "get" King's novel. The film's heart doesn't capture the novel's heart.
But it is a good film in its own right.
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How can a good movie be a bad adaptation?
It's a bad adaptation. Kubrick didn't fully "get" King's novel. The film's heart doesn't capture the novel's heart.
But it is a good film in its own right.
Absolutely this.
Now, you want a bad version of that book? Look no further than the tv version that SK was behind producing. The people over at Troma were even laughing at how bad that was.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
No, it's a good movie, it's just a bad adaptation.
It's a bad adaptation and a bad movie. When I watched it for the first time, after years of hearing how awesome it was, I literally wondered if I'd watched the wrong movie, perhaps some parody of the actual movie. I spent most of that movie staring blankly at the screen, and the rest of it chuckling to myself and shaking my head.
Of course, I know that virtually nobody shares my opinion, and I'm okay with that. Feel free to throw rotten vegetables at me.
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The Shining is one of my favourite films.
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The Shining is a bad movie.
No, it's a good movie, it's just a bad adaptation.
It's a bad adaptation and a bad movie. When I watched it for the first time, after years of hearing how awesome it was, I literally wondered if I'd watched the wrong movie, perhaps some parody of the actual movie. I spent most of that movie staring blankly at the screen, and the rest of it chuckling to myself and shaking my head.
Of course, I know that virtually nobody shares my opinion, and I'm okay with that. Feel free to throw rotten vegetables at me.
(https://www.johnlund.com/images/Angry-Audience.jpg)
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The guy who wrote Empire is coming back to Star Wars and all you guys can talk about is whether or nt The Shining is a good movie? Of course it's a good movie. Now can we talk about Star Wars?
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The guy who wrote Empire is coming back to Star Wars and all you guys can talk about is whether or nt The Shining is a good movie? Of course it's a good movie. Now can we talk about Star Wars?
To tell you the truth...color me skeptical on this bit of news.
This is like if I heard AC/DC was writing "Back in Black Part 2"....
He hasn't done very much since Empire (which was, ironically enough, the same year Back in Black came out) and now he's being as to come back and try to recapture the magic he created almost 35 years ago? Meh.
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I gotta say, if Kasdan coming back doesn't give any sense of hope then I'm pretty sure absolutely nothing will. I mean I'm not a very big Star Wars fan in general, but I guess even I can try to be optimistic.
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He hasn't done very much since Empire
He wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark and Return of the Jedi. He wrote and directed The Big Chill, Silverado, and The Accidental Tourist. He wrote and produced The Bodyguard. Yes, he's done a few clunkers as well, and he's been out of the game for a while, but this is fantastic news.
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If the guy who wrote on the original movies has been brought on board, this is good news if for no other reason than to support that Disney actually care about the quality of this movie, and want this to be up to the standard of the originals, and isn't just looking at a cheap cash-in, which is what people are fearing given the speed at which they're moving forward with making more movies.
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If the guy who wrote on the original movies has been brought on board, this is good news if for no other reason than to support that Disney actually care about the quality of this movie, and want this to be up to the standard of the originals, and isn't just looking at a cheap cash-in, which is what people are fearing given the speed at which they're moving forward with making more movies.
Or maybe they are just trying to create a facade.
Well, who will live, will see, as we say. Off to watch the latest Clone Wars episode :D
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If the guy who wrote on the original movies has been brought on board, this is good news if for no other reason than to support that Disney actually care about the quality of this movie, and want this to be up to the standard of the originals, and isn't just looking at a cheap cash-in, which is what people are fearing given the speed at which they're moving forward with making more movies.
Or maybe they are just trying to create a facade.
Possible, although I don't personally believe that. I think there are plenty of better ways to achieve that.
I'm going with cautiously optimistic on this until proven otherwise for now.
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I'm a little confused. Will the writers work together at all, or does each have free reign on their own movie?
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I'm a little confused. Will the writers work together ay all, or does each have free reign on their own movie?
There's no such thing as "free reign" on tentpole properties like Star Wars.
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My guess is that GL will hand each of them a plot summary and their job is to fill in the details. Then run it back past GL for his input.
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My guess is that GL will hand each of them a plot summary and their job is to fill in the details. Then run it back past GL for his input.
Well, maybe not he himself, but "the powers that be".
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I'm getting a little worried now. It sounds like the only peer review going on will be from George Lucas. :lol
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Yeah, but at least we should be starting with some decent quality writing. I (somewhat) trust Lucas to give scripts and plot ideas the thumbs up or thumbs down, as long as someone else comes up with them. He's proven that he doesn't know how to write a script or a screenplay.
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I don’t like George Lucas' writing. It’s coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Lawrence Kasdans. His writing is soft and smooth.
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I don’t like George Lucas' writing. It’s coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Lawrence Kasdans. His writing is soft and smooth.
I read his novelization of ANH. Definitely not what I'd call top notch writing :lol
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I don't like George Lucas' writing. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Lawrence Kasdans. His writing is soft and smooth.
That's not really a fair comparison, though. That's like comparing making out with Natalie Portman to getting your private parts sandblasted.
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I don't like George Lucas' writing. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Lawrence Kasdans. His writing is soft and smooth.
That's not really a fair comparison, though. That's like comparing making out with Natalie Portman to getting your private parts sandblasted.
Hm, I guess my joke was too obscure. Replace "George Lucas' writing" with "sand" and "Lawrence Kasands" with "here".
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I don't like George Lucas' writing. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Lawrence Kasdans. His writing is soft and smooth.
That's not really a fair comparison, though. That's like comparing making out with Natalie Portman to getting your private parts sandblasted.
Hm, I guess my joke was too obscure. Replace "George Lucas' writing" with "sand" and "Lawrence Kasands" with "here".
Not for me. Can't believe nobody else caught it, but I lauged. :lol
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I don't like George Lucas' writing. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like Lawrence Kasdans. His writing is soft and smooth.
That's not really a fair comparison, though. That's like comparing making out with Natalie Portman to getting your private parts sandblasted.
Hm, I guess my joke was too obscure. Replace "George Lucas' writing" with "sand" and "Lawrence Kasands" with "here".
I got it. I guess my clues that I'd gotten it were too obscure. (Natalie=Padme, and sand)
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Oh sorry, I was distracted by the whole mixture of Natalie Portman and my private parts.
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Understandable.