I don't think I have seen this done here before and couldn't find a similar thread, so!
I am a long time guitarist and John Petrucci is my favorite. I have a lot of respect for the man as a musician, player and person. I got to meet him last year at the long island music hall of fame, recently in NYC at the CD release signing and have seen the band countless times.
We all know what everyone thinks of his ability, but when hearing him live or on the live albums what do you think he struggles to replicate live or you know he is going to constantly mess up or fumble through a line.
for instance 5:06 to 5:09 in the Fatal Tragedy guitar solo and
4:54 to 4:57 in the constant motion guitar solo meaning the fast sweep picking
The unisons in Blind Faith and Beyond this Life seem to be pretty tricky, even for him.
Quote from: gabeh1018 on November 17, 2011, 11:16:56 AM
We all know what everyone thinks of his ability, but when hearing him live or on the live albums what do you think he struggles to replicate live or you know he is going to constantly mess up or fumble through a line.
This is a neat idea for a thread. In the recent Rush documentary Beyond the Lighted Stage, Neil Peart confessed that he still gets a rush every time he plays Tom Sawyer right live because it was challenging when he wrote it and it's still challenging.
I really like the idea of musicians pushing themselves to the edge of their abilities. Many creative types I admire have expressed that they have little interest in doing things they know they can pull off perfectly.
Anyway, to actually answer the OP's question, I am also quite impressed by pretty much every JR/JP unison part live.
Quote from: theseoafs on November 17, 2011, 11:18:27 AM
The unisons in Blind Faith and Beyond this Life seem to be pretty tricky, even for him.
yea I heard they didn't play that song for some time because he had trouble with the blind faith unison, never really noticed the beyond this life one though
Glass Prison arps. He often has to sweep them instead of alternate pick. Even on the record he gets a bit behind the beat.
After playing as many shows as he has, I wonder how much "nerves" factor there is for JP when playing live. I imagine it's still not the same as in-studio, but I assume he's gotten better over the years. I know that personally there's a bunch of stuff that I can pull off during band practice that I can't play live anywhere near as cleanly so it's always awesome to see bands like DT and BTBAM who absolutely nail their stuff live.
Yeah the biggest example I can think of is the Glass Prison arps. Most of the live videos I've seen on youtube (like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h81PggfE8I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52DcgYFMztg) he screws it up at least to some extent but my god. Even in the studio version I cringe at how hard that sounds.
The problem isn't usually nerves unless there is some material that he hasn't practiced enough before the show. He's mentioned it before in one of the documentaries. He knows what parts he struggles with during live performances so he'll try to practice on getting those parts down as opposed to other material that he can do in his sleep.
To 'support' this thread's claim, are there any recordings or videos available where JP messes up?
I love it when people push themselves to the edge, it's what I try to do as well, with my own guitar playing. Coincidentally, I wrote a solo yesterday that I can't play now by any means, but my bands wants me to learn that one exactly as I wrote it, so here we go again.
Quote from: Elite on November 17, 2011, 01:48:26 PM
To 'support' this thread's claim, are there any recordings or videos available where JP messes up?
I love it when people push themselves to the edge, it's what I try to do as well, with my own guitar playing. Coincidentally, I wrote a solo yesterday that I can't play now by any means, but my bands wants me to learn that one exactly as I wrote it, so here we go again.
Both of the links lithium posted have JP playing the TGP arps really messily, though he doesn't necessarily mess up.
Pretty good idea for a thread.
Always noticed TGP and Blind Faith ones, those arps in TGP are a bitch though.
This Dying Soul on Budokan he cocks up. Nothing bad just you can tell he falls out of time and loses his place a bit. Also, the last instrumental section of Metropolis before the last verse he has made mistakes on a few times. Mostly just timings with the rest of the band
Quote from: Elite on November 17, 2011, 01:48:26 PM
To 'support' this thread's claim, are there any recordings or videos available where JP messes up?
I love it when people push themselves to the edge, it's what I try to do as well, with my own guitar playing. Coincidentally, I wrote a solo yesterday that I can't play now by any means, but my bands wants me to learn that one exactly as I wrote it, so here we go again.
well in regards to my fatal tragedy time stamp just go listen or watch live scenes from new york
its not so much he messes up, he justst stumbles through the last alternate picking line into that sweep which at that bpm and amount of notes in a half 2nd will generally sound sloppy live
blind faith unison is JP pushed to the limit - therefore it's not replicated as frequently live.
Quote from: gabeh1018 on November 17, 2011, 02:35:09 PM
Quote from: Elite on November 17, 2011, 01:48:26 PM
To 'support' this thread's claim, are there any recordings or videos available where JP messes up?
I love it when people push themselves to the edge, it's what I try to do as well, with my own guitar playing. Coincidentally, I wrote a solo yesterday that I can't play now by any means, but my bands wants me to learn that one exactly as I wrote it, so here we go again.
well in regards to my fatal tragedy time stamp just go listen or watch live scenes from new york
its not so much he messes up, he justst stumbles through the last alternate picking line into that sweep which at that bpm and amount of notes in a half 2nd will generally sound sloppy live
I know exactly what you mean regarding Fatal Tragedy.
I have a few bootlegs where they royally screw up the last instrumental bit in Metropolis Pt. I and have to restart... twice! But they pick up and carry and :metal
Am I right in thinking that 'Lost Not Forgotten' hasn't been played live yet? Guessing the mind-bending section in that might be one of the reasons behind the choice.
The arps of TGP are the obvious ones that come to mind.
I haven't really listened to BF live much if at all, but I know in interviews it's been said that the unison is one of the hardest bits for him to play.
just to add 7:47 to 7:54 in the trial of tears guitar solo tends to get fumbled through
The ending solo to In the Presence of Enemies Pt 1.
I think you also have to consider the tempo the songs are played live. Portnoy used to increase the tempo of the songs and that makes it incredible hard for Petrucci to play a solo spot on when that solo is difficult in normal tempo. He seems to "mess" up much less on this tour from the youtubevideos I have seen because the songs are played at the same tempo as the recordings.
Quote from: chwik on November 18, 2011, 12:49:19 AM
I think you also have to consider the tempo the songs are played live. Portnoy used to increase the tempo of the songs and that makes it incredible hard for Petrucci to play a solo spot on when that solo is difficult in normal tempo. He seems to "mess" up much less on this tour from the youtubevideos I have seen because the songs are played at the same tempo as the recordings.
I completely agree, it seems the tempo of tGP on gigantour was much faster and even during the instrumedley when he gets to the fast part of erotomania. increasing even by 5 bpm can make a world of difference
Quote from: ddtonfire on November 17, 2011, 01:06:54 PM
Glass Prison arps. He often has to sweep them instead of alternate pick. Even on the record he gets a bit behind the beat.
The record version seems fine, mainly because there are a few cut-in's the solo isn't played from start to finish in one sitting, sort of like the constant motion solo.
As for the sweep vs. alt pick, when I was at a JP clinic he said that it really depended on MP whether he swept the solo or alt picked it, often times mike would ramp up the tempo so he would sweep it instead of alt pick.
Quote from: ReaperKK on November 18, 2011, 06:04:11 AM
As for the sweep vs. alt pick, when I was at a JP clinic he said that it really depended on MP whether he swept the solo or alt picked it, often times mike would ramp up the tempo so he would sweep it instead of alt pick.
Yeah, I read that in an interview somewhere. He sarcastically regretted learning that solo from JR and recording it... because then he had to play it live!
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 17, 2011, 01:41:24 PM
The problem isn't usually nerves unless there is some material that he hasn't practiced enough before the show. He's mentioned it before in one of the documentaries. He knows what parts he struggles with during live performances so he'll try to practice on getting those parts down as opposed to other material that he can do in his sleep.
Yeah, for example, the lead in Only a Matter of Time after the 2 minute mark is pretty easy but he screws it up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IObXtL4mg
On the WDADRU version of A Fortune in Lies he and JM also make some mistake(s) in the intro.
Quote from: ? on November 18, 2011, 07:41:48 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 17, 2011, 01:41:24 PM
The problem isn't usually nerves unless there is some material that he hasn't practiced enough before the show. He's mentioned it before in one of the documentaries. He knows what parts he struggles with during live performances so he'll try to practice on getting those parts down as opposed to other material that he can do in his sleep.
Yeah, for example, the lead in Only a Matter of Time after the 2 minute mark is pretty easy but he screws it up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IObXtL4mg
On the WDADRU version of A Fortune in Lies he and JM also make some mistake(s) in the intro.
That's one for him to be ashamed of..
Quote from: Elite on November 18, 2011, 08:32:39 AM
Quote from: ? on November 18, 2011, 07:41:48 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 17, 2011, 01:41:24 PM
The problem isn't usually nerves unless there is some material that he hasn't practiced enough before the show. He's mentioned it before in one of the documentaries. He knows what parts he struggles with during live performances so he'll try to practice on getting those parts down as opposed to other material that he can do in his sleep.
Yeah, for example, the lead in Only a Matter of Time after the 2 minute mark is pretty easy but he screws it up here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IObXtL4mg
On the WDADRU version of A Fortune in Lies he and JM also make some mistake(s) in the intro.
That's one for him to be ashamed of..
Yes, I'm sure he hasn't slept well since that night.
I have seen the live that ddtonfire talks about but I can't find it right now.It was on youtube.JP messes up twice.If he has played Metropolis 598 times by now (as I see on the Live Archive) and still doesn't perform it perfectly,then I guess it's more about concentration.
Anyway,searching for that video,I found this one of Metropolis which is by far the worst I've seen them perform.From 4:13-4:20 it's like those "X artist shreds" videos!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlqX6RZSoJw
One was in Phoenix and the other was one of the Australian shows.
I believe it's this Metropolis. :rollin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgP-WI7E3L0&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgP-WI7E3L0&feature=related)
Quote from: gabeh1018 on November 17, 2011, 11:58:00 PM
just to add 7:47 to 7:54 in the trial of tears guitar solo tends to get fumbled through
yeah he kinda looks constipated when he plays that solo on L@B. His concentration, however, only made me appreciate one of my favorite solos even more.
2 screw up vids out of 598 times playing the song, is pretty damn good if you ask me.
And the first vid, the one from the Octavarium world tour, was MP's fault. But even then, they're playing in front of 20,000 people. It's gotta be nerve racking. haha.
Yes,it is.And that's why I said it,because he sure can play it but due to lack of concentration or too much confidence,even JP can sometimes make a mistake.
Quote from: wolfking on November 17, 2011, 02:30:03 PM
Pretty good idea for a thread.
Always noticed TGP and Blind Faith ones, those arps in TGP are a bitch though.
This Dying Soul on Budokan he cocks up. Nothing bad just you can tell he falls out of time and loses his place a bit. Also, the last instrumental section of Metropolis before the last verse he has made mistakes on a few times. Mostly just timings with the rest of the band
This is JP, it's the rest of the band not in time.
He slows things down live because people die if he plays too fast...
Quote from: GalacticGuitarist87 on November 18, 2011, 07:43:14 PM
He slows things down live because people die if he plays too fast...
this is a very good point, he is actually doing us all a favor
In my opinion the way JP handles his mistakes shows that he is a real professional. When he has one he just covers it up fast and continues on like nothing ever happended. He doesn't seem to let it bother him, but knows that it is part of the game. It's kind of the same with the most proffesional atlethes in the world too.
Let's also not forget to mention that JP is in fact, the man. :metal
Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on November 19, 2011, 02:37:15 AM
Let's also not forget to mention that JP is in fact, the man. :metal
I give JP a lot of credit for rarely making mistakes throughout their extremely long and challenging songs
I always find his Endless Sacrifice solos to be questionable live. The ones on LaB, for example, seem to have a lot of flat notes in there. Don't think I've heard a live version in which he satisfactorily replicates the studio solos.
Other than that, though, I'm always astonished at how much the man's able to pull off.
To quote Lost Not Forgotten: "I am not immortal, I am just a man"
DT songs are very technical and it's amazing how JP manages to pull off so many of them live but it's also natural to make some mistakes.
it sometimes boggles my mind how he messes up certain parts of solos but on Live at Budakan he tears through the stream of consciousness solo with like 0 mistakes and that by no means is an easy solo.
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 21, 2011, 06:18:16 AM
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
I completely agree with that statement. I always feel he writes for the song and when he does write a solo he tries to take you on a journey and make each part interesting while combining technique, solid note choice and soul depending on what song.
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 21, 2011, 06:18:16 AM
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you mean. If you mean his solos make songs on ADTOE worthwhile, I'll have to completely disagree with you. Apart from the instrumental section of BAI, none of the solos on the new album are that memorable for me. It's the whole song and songwriting that counts for me.
Quote from: Elite on November 21, 2011, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 21, 2011, 06:18:16 AM
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you mean. If you mean his solos make songs on ADTOE worthwhile, I'll have to completely disagree with you. Apart from the instrumental section of BAI, none of the solos on the new album are that memorable for me. It's the whole song and songwriting that counts for me.
Well, it's different for everyone. With the new album, it's isn't "whole" songs for me. It's "parts" of songs. For example, I don't really care for BAI but JP's solo is epic. Same goes for The Best of Times on BC&SL. I don't like the song that much but the outro is awesome. Also, Repentance is saved by the JP solo. Otherwise, I'd probably never listen to it again. That's basically what I meant.
Quote from: Elite on November 21, 2011, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 21, 2011, 06:18:16 AM
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you mean. If you mean his solos make songs on ADTOE worthwhile, I'll have to completely disagree with you. Apart from the instrumental section of BAI, none of the solos on the new album are that memorable for me. It's the whole song and songwriting that counts for me.
Only BAI? I think the LNF solo is one of the best JP has ever come up with. Mainly for that one jazzy part.
Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on November 23, 2011, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Elite on November 21, 2011, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 21, 2011, 06:18:16 AM
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you mean. If you mean his solos make songs on ADTOE worthwhile, I'll have to completely disagree with you. Apart from the instrumental section of BAI, none of the solos on the new album are that memorable for me. It's the whole song and songwriting that counts for me.
Only BAI? I think the LNF solo is one of the best JP has ever come up with. Mainly for that one jazzy part.
Love the LNF solo but I am also a sucker for the Shattered Fortress solo. I think it is overlooked by the fans.
Quote from: chwik on November 24, 2011, 02:08:36 AM
Quote from: TheLordOfTheStrings on November 23, 2011, 02:28:51 PM
Quote from: Elite on November 21, 2011, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: Dublagent66 on November 21, 2011, 06:18:16 AM
I noticed that some of his solos tend to save certain songs that aren't that good. Especially on the new album.
I'm sorry, I don't really get what you mean. If you mean his solos make songs on ADTOE worthwhile, I'll have to completely disagree with you. Apart from the instrumental section of BAI, none of the solos on the new album are that memorable for me. It's the whole song and songwriting that counts for me.
Only BAI? I think the LNF solo is one of the best JP has ever come up with. Mainly for that one jazzy part.
Love the LNF solo but I am also a sucker for the Shattered Fortress solo. I think it is overlooked by the fans.
I would have to agree with you, the shattered fortress solo is definitely great in a mediocre song IMO