So, traditionally, the Holy Trinity of DT albums is:
1. Images and Words
2. Awake
3. Scenes From a Memory
in whatever order.
But who thinks that Six Dwat is better than at least one of these albums?
I do. I think that it's easily better than Awake and possibly IaW, maybe tied with SFAM.
1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
2. Surrounded
3. Learning to Live
4. Voices
5. Disappear
6. Take The Time
-----------------
7. Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
8. Space-Dye Vest
9. The Glass Prison
10. Wait For Sleep
11. Erotomania
12, Blind Faith
-----------------
13. Metropolis Pt 1
14. Scarred
15. Misunderstood
16. The Great Debate
17. The Silent Man
18. 6:00
19. Pull Me Under
20. Lie
21. Another Day
-----------------
22. Under a Glass Moon
23. The Mirror
24. Caught in a Web
25. Innocence Faded
Yes, but...
my holy trinity happens to be:
SDOIT
I&W
SFAM
In my opinion, Awake doesn't even come close to touching the genius of I&W, SFAM, and 6DOIT.
I have a 4th member in mine (no particular order)
I&W
SFAM
6DOIT
ADTOE
ADTOE would probably be my fourth, too.
I never "got" Awake. Sure it's good, but it's nothing compared to I&W, Scenes and Six Degrees. And the latest release, for that matter.
Quote from: FretMuppet on October 08, 2011, 12:32:12 PM
I&W
SFAM
6DOIT
ADTOE
My ranking too.
I&W>>SFAM>>>>>>>>>>>SDOIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ADTOE
Quote from: E.S. on October 08, 2011, 12:34:30 PM
I never "got" Awake. Sure it's good, but it's nothing compared to I&W, Scenes and Six Degrees. And the latest release, for that matter.
I used to get it. But then I realized I was being dumb. :P
I see it more as a 'holy duo' of DT albums, and that's Images & Words and Scenes From a Memory.
Which is weird 'cause I&W and SFaM is not my favorite albums at all. SDoIT is.
I listened to Awake again yesterday on the wake of going through the DT discography and I really feel that for the most part what's really going for this album is the vocal melodies and the lyrics, might be the best DT album as far as these two elements go.
Not quite. It is great, but not quite top tier status.
SDOIT is the best album.
I enjoy SDOIT, but that's really it.
I rarely listen to disc 1 and disc 2 is pretty cool to break out from time to time, but even when the album first came out, i was like "ok, that's cool, they are trying different stuff", but I wasn't ever like "OH MY GOD!! this is amazing!".
The only albums that made me go "Oh my god that's amazing" on the first listen, are I&W, SFOM and ADTOE.
Kinda off-topic, and may have been discussed in the past (i'm pretty new here), but does anyone else think "SDOIT: I. Overture" sounds very influenced by Zelda's music? That;s not a bad thing though I f'ing love Zelda and its music, but I can't help but think of it every time I hear that song. ;D
Quote from: gentaishinigami on October 08, 2011, 01:09:12 PM
Kinda off-topic, and may have been discussed in the past (i'm pretty new here), but does anyone else think "SDOIT: I. Overture" sounds very influenced by Zelda's music? That;s not a bad thing though I f'ing love Zelda and its music, but I can't help but think of it every time I hear that song. ;D
The only similarity is that both are orchestral.
Well SDOIT definitely beats Awake. It doesnt beat ADTOE though.
My holy trinity is (in no particular order),
Images
Events
Scenes
I'd definitely put it above Images & Words any day.
I got four favourites.
Images And Words
Scenes From a Memory
A Dramatic Turn of Events
SDOIT
Yes, it's their best album.
1.SDOIT
2.I&W
3.SFAM
Quote from: theseoafs on October 08, 2011, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: gentaishinigami on October 08, 2011, 01:09:12 PM
Kinda off-topic, and may have been discussed in the past (i'm pretty new here), but does anyone else think "SDOIT: I. Overture" sounds very influenced by Zelda's music? That;s not a bad thing though I f'ing love Zelda and its music, but I can't help but think of it every time I hear that song. ;D
The only similarity is that both are orchestral.
The part that sounds like it to me is at 3:54-4:05. I can't place the exact Zelda song it sounds like (something from OoT I'm pretty sure), but it's definitely more than just both being orchestras. Before anyone gets teh wrong idea I'm not saying Jordan ripped Zelda or anything of the sorts, I'm saying the part sounds influenced by Koji Kondo's work on Zelda. It's not the same it's just in the same vein as Kondo's work. I think it would be awesome if Jordan was influenced by Zelda personally, and I'd also love to see some Vince DiCola type stuff from Jordan one day! Though in Outcry (6:25) there is the tiniest little bit that does sound like DiCola so I guess I'll probably have to settle for that. :sadpanda:
Quote from: gentaishinigami on October 08, 2011, 02:10:03 PM
Quote from: theseoafs on October 08, 2011, 01:11:44 PM
Quote from: gentaishinigami on October 08, 2011, 01:09:12 PM
Kinda off-topic, and may have been discussed in the past (i'm pretty new here), but does anyone else think "SDOIT: I. Overture" sounds very influenced by Zelda's music? That;s not a bad thing though I f'ing love Zelda and its music, but I can't help but think of it every time I hear that song. ;D
The only similarity is that both are orchestral.
The part that sounds like it to me is at 3:54-4:05. I can't place the exact Zelda song it sounds like (something from OoT I'm pretty sure), but it's definitely more than just both being orchestras. Before anyone gets teh wrong idea I'm not saying Jordan ripped Zelda or anything of the sorts, I'm saying the part sounds influenced by Koji Kondo's work on Zelda. It's not the same it's just in the same vein as Kondo's work. I think it would be awesome if Jordan was influenced by Zelda personally, and I'd also love to see some Vince DiCola type stuff from Jordan one day! Though in Outcry (6:25) there is the tiniest little bit that does sound like DiCola so I guess I'll probably have to settle for that. :sadpanda:
I'd be very, very surprised if Jordan's ever heard or heard of Kondo (outside of Super Mario music).
It's my sixth favorite...so no.
Short answer is no. I like SDOIT, but have never considered it a favorite.
Also, inb4 Blob.
Overall I would say no. But I like Six Degrees better than Awake, so I'd say Awake doesn't deserve to be in that trinity either.
my 'holy trinity':
-SDOIT
-ADTOE
-SFAM
Awake
SFAM
I&W
then:
SDOIT
ADTOE
Yes, this Holy trinity
ADTOE SDOIT
SFAM
Quote from: Ħ on October 08, 2011, 12:35:38 PM
Quote from: E.S. on October 08, 2011, 12:34:30 PM
I never "got" Awake. Sure it's good, but it's nothing compared to I&W, Scenes and Six Degrees. And the latest release, for that matter.
I used to get it. But then I realized I was being dumb. :P
*sigh*
Awake
I&W
6DOIT
SFAM
ADTOE
So I guess I'm dumb. So be it.
'Holy Trinity':
1. SFAM
2. I&W
3a. ADTOE
3b. Awake
-------
'Great Albums'
4. SDOIT
5. 8varium
6. FII
-------
'Very Solid Albums'
7. BC&SL
8. Train of Thought
9. WDADU
-------
'Could Do Without Them'
10. SC
1.SDOIT
2.ADTOE
3.FII
I always saw the albums as the double duo albums (I&W and Awake) - (Scenes and SDOIT), with ADTOE making it a quintet
so...
SDOIT
EVENTS
SCENES
I&W
AWAKE
Good topic... the short answer would be that yes, it does deserve a place in the holy trinity. I understand that everyone's trinity is different, but if there were a unanimous 'big three', I think SDOIT should definately be in there.
If anyone's interested in why I think it deserves a place, I shared some of my thoughts in another topic, check them out here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28129.msg1071016#msg1071016
Quote from: KevShmev on October 08, 2011, 12:46:26 PM
Not quite. It is great, but not quite top tier status.
This. It's fourth on my list.
I would say it deserves to be counted in the "big 4"
Awake
6DoIT
I&W
SDOIT is in my bottom half of DT albums, right above SC and BCSL. I've never understood why people like it so much.
Awake, on the other hand, is my third-favorite DT album, right after I&W and SFaM. Apart from Scarred and The Mirror, I thoroughly enjoy every song.
I think with SDoIT my problem is that few of the songs are that enjoyable. The first half of misunderstood is cool, Disappear is a great ballad, and the title track is up there with some of DT's best. The other songs are just background noise to me, like a lot of the material on SC and BCSL. I don't really see what's so exceptional about them. Hell, even Misunderstood is kind of average.
The first six songs on Awake alone are enough to make it one of Dream Theater's best. Innocence Faded is probably my favorite on Awake, but most of them are great.
Not for me, because Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is one of, if not my least favourite Dream Theater album.
Awake has no place at all in the holy trinity imo. It is SDOIT, SFAM, and IaW, in that order. Just like IaW and SFAM, SDOIT is perfect from beginning to end, whereas Awake is most definitely not.
Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 08, 2011, 09:04:25 PM
Awake has no place at all in the holy trinity imo. It is SDOIT, SFAM, and IaW, in that order. Just like IaW and SFAM, SDOIT is perfect from beginning to end, whereas Awake is most definitely not.
It's just so amusing to me on how much opinions differ,
see, I think Awake is perfect the whole way through, even though I don't like Scarred very much, it is still a good song.
And, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is not at all.
Hells Yes it does. Any album that includes their best heavy song (Glass Prison) and best epic prog track (title song) is the Holiest of holies
6 Degrees is a great album. Does it belong in my "holy trinity"? No. But I think it belongs to top 5 easily.
Quote from: Cranky on October 08, 2011, 09:41:13 PM
Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 08, 2011, 09:04:25 PM
Awake has no place at all in the holy trinity imo. It is SDOIT, SFAM, and IaW, in that order. Just like IaW and SFAM, SDOIT is perfect from beginning to end, whereas Awake is most definitely not.
It's just so amusing to me on how much opinions differ,
see, I think Awake is perfect the whole way through, even though I don't like Scarred very much, it is still a good song.
And, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is not at all.
I'd say both albums have something that brings them down. Awake has too many songs with samples in them. Especially Space-Dye Vest. What was the point of that Conan O'Brien sample? How does a conversation about a dry heat in Houston and swimming pools relate to the song at all?? Way to ruin the song.
In Six Degrees it's more just underwhelming parts like The Great Debate and Goodnight Kiss that kinda bring the album down overall.
Six Degrees is better than at least two of those albums. As are a couple more DT albums.
Quote from: TheGreatPretender on October 09, 2011, 02:09:36 AM
Quote from: Cranky on October 08, 2011, 09:41:13 PM
Quote from: BlobVanDam on October 08, 2011, 09:04:25 PM
Awake has no place at all in the holy trinity imo. It is SDOIT, SFAM, and IaW, in that order. Just like IaW and SFAM, SDOIT is perfect from beginning to end, whereas Awake is most definitely not.
It's just so amusing to me on how much opinions differ,
see, I think Awake is perfect the whole way through, even though I don't like Scarred very much, it is still a good song.
And, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is not at all.
I'd say both albums have something that brings them down. Awake has too many songs with samples in them. Especially Space-Dye Vest. What was the point of that Conan O'Brien sample? How does a conversation about a dry heat in Houston and swimming pools relate to the song at all?? Way to ruin the song.
In Six Degrees it's more just underwhelming parts like The Great Debate and Goodnight Kiss that kinda bring the album down overall.
Well, if you pay really close attention to Space-Dye Vest, during the sample sections, you can hear a tv fuzz every time a 'sample' is change, and, in my opinion, it is the main character just sitting in his room lonely as hell, just watching television aimlessly.
And, in a couple parts, the sample has some sort of compression on it to simulate that the character is farther away from the tv, maybe in the kitchen getting a beer, or something.
But, I agree with your statement anyways, every album is going to have a weak point in some body's opinion.
I just think that Six Degrees has way more weak points than Awake, the actual SDOIT song is one of my least favourites in their entire catalogue. and the only song I like from the first disc is Misunderstood. I know, I must be crazy.
I think it does. My holy trinity is Images, SDOIT, and Scenes.
Quote from: ResultsMayVary on October 08, 2011, 12:31:15 PM
Yes, but...
my holy trinity happens to be:
SDOIT
I&W
SFAM
This. I've never been a big Awake fan
ok - i'll say it. sfam isn't in my top 3.
i&w, 6 degrees, and train of thought
I don't have a holy trinity, but when I rank DT albums SDOIT never makes it into the top 3. Depending on my mood I actually sometimes like Train of Thought better. SDOIT is a good album, but sometimes I just get a sense that the band is trying too hard on it. It's not really something I can put into words, but there you have it.
Quote from: lumpy33 on October 09, 2011, 10:10:29 AM
ok - i'll say it. sfam isn't in my top 3.
i&w, 6 degrees, and train of thought
+1 and Hello World !!
haha. quite an entrance, gunsofthepatriots. such a sacrilegious opening remark on the forum!
SFAM seems to be untouchable around here...
Quote from: lumpy33 on October 09, 2011, 01:53:24 PM
haha. quite an entrance, gunsofthepatriots. such a sacrilegious opening remark on the forum!
SFAM seems to be untouchable around here...
SFAM is untouchable everywhere.
No album belongs there more for me. It's my #1 DT album. And Awake doesn't come close to making an appearance either.
SDOIT
Scenes
Images
Somewhere between #8-#11: Awake
Quote from: Cranky on October 09, 2011, 07:52:23 AM
I just think that Six Degrees has way more weak points than Awake, the actual SDOIT song is one of my least favourites in their entire catalogue. and the only song I like from the first disc is Misunderstood. I know, I must be crazy.
Then I am crazy too.
Nevertheless that was my first impression (for a long time), then after Score I found some more love for the title track (actually I love the Score version) and The Glass Prison grew from meh to somehow enjoyable. So the record went for me from subpar to midrange, but for sure not on my holy trilogy.
Six Degrees = 4th
Hello first post on here, and as most people have said my holy trinity would have to be.
I&W
Awake
SFAM
SDOIT is a great album by all means but I don't think its even in my top five. I just can't get into it like other albums. I personally think ToT is better than SDOIT. I think it lacks that oomph that makes the top 3 stand out.
SDOIT should definitely be ther since it's their best album. End of discussion.
Quote from: Jirpo on October 08, 2011, 06:48:16 PM
I would say it deserves to be counted in the "big 4"
This. To me that means SFAM, ADTOE, I&W and SDOIT. Awake is not a favorite of mine, and is out of the top 3 by several albums.
Nope. 6 Degrees is #5 for me. My holy trinity is now:
1. SFAM
2. I&W
3. ADTOE
Awake is 4th, for what it's worth.
My top 3 was always Scenes, 6 and Train... so... I probably shouldn't spend too much time in this thread.
Well interestingly I went back and looked at the last time I ranked things and my "Holy Trinity" was
1) 6DOIT
2) 8VM
3) Awake.
So answer to the first question is yes.
On reflection I think I would change some of my song rankings again, but those three albums will still probably score very high along with ADTOE and I&W. I love parts of SFAM and love the fact it is a well put together concept album, but it is in my mid-tier of albums overall.
My personal "Holy Trinity":
Images & Words
Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes from a Memory
A dramatic turn of events
Seriously.
Quote from: 7thHanyou on October 08, 2011, 08:13:26 PM
SDOIT is in my bottom half of DT albums. I've never understood why people like it so much.
+1
"Home" is one of my Top 5 DT songs. However, the album as a whole never really totally clicked for me. I understand its importance - Jordan's first album... concept album... yada yada yada. But, I can't listen to it all the way through.
SDOIT, on the other hand, is definitely in my Top 3 DT albums. I can listen to that one all day long. To me, it's the last album (until ADTOE) that is DT playing like DT and not any of their influences. And, I simply find it to be solid from beginning to end.
Six Degrees is my favorite album so yes I'd say so. I&W has to be there too. As for the third I'm going with SFAM. I only have it at 5 but I think these 3 albums express what DT's all about.
1. AWAKE
2. I&W's
3. 6DOIT
So this topic prompted me to go and re-listen to SDOIT.
I've always liked the album but remember that when I initially listened to it a couple of things had bothered me;
(i) The album was not released in the UK before I saw them perform it live, so although I enjoyed what I heard it was difficult to digest some of the songs on first listen live.
(ii) The second CD reminded me of SFAM, I was hoping for something completely different for the follow up, so that aspect disappointed me slightly
(iii) Vocally I was never too impressed with TGP, none of the verse melodies caught my ear and sounded a bit too Metalica for my liking.
Anyway having heard it again, I've got to say that I was absolutely blown away as to how great this album really is.
I take back all I had thought and would easily put this alongside my holy trinity....I&W, Awake and SFAM.
H, your Holy Trinity is wrong.
It should be SDOIT, I&W, ADOTE.
So yes, SDOIT should be there.
It is on my top 3, for sure. By the way, my top 3 is:
FII
SDOIT
AWAKE