DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: eosforum on August 02, 2011, 11:38:21 PM
-
The man hasn't sang that powerfully and without making mistakes since like 1994. Everybody at the show in Athens yesterday was amazed from his performance, including the ones who don't really dig his voice and style. He only used falsetto like a couple times during the whole show. Learning to Live and Caught in a Web were sang just like the album versions!! Congrats JLB, welcome back to kicking ass!
-
Great to hear. :metal
-
:heart
-
Now DT needs to put The Killing Hand into their set list :metal
-
I can only confirm the OP about the concert in Vienna. JLB's singing was absolutely top-notch.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I gotta agree.
-
He sounded a bit shaky to me on vids from the first few shows. Perhaps he's warmed up a bit now. Also, take into consideration that live performances are usually perceived better than what they actually are in concert.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I personally never said that before. I've seen them live in 2005 and 2007 and hat he did yesterday was beyond comparison I also made clear that not only did he not any mistkaes but he also didn't use falsetto to hide the weakness or tireness of his voice as he used to do all the time. I'm telling you this was different and I believe you will see that yourself when you watch a show of theirs.
-
He's nowhere near where he was in 1994 but he's been a lot better on this tour than he has been for a long while.
-
He's nowhere near where he was in 1994 but he's been a lot better on this tour than he has been for a long while.
Pretty much this. He's not and will never be in early 90s shape. But I think that his voice is the best in 10 years (if you count off Score DVD).
-
Yeah, the very first videos that came out from their first show didn't sound terribly good as per Labrie's singing (especially on OTBOA's; he was all over the place pitch-wise) but just the other day I checked out some of the newest concert footage and he sounded AMAZING. I was shocked.
-
Yeah, I think he definitely sounds a lot better. I've been looking at a lot of the YT footage, and what really strikes me is that he's back to doing all the random super-high notes like he did pre-injury. This can be chalked up to either of 2 easy explanations: 1) He's feeling better now or 2) Portnoy didn't want him doing that.
But yeah, it's pretty nuts. He takes the E5s in the UaGM chorus up to G#5s nowadays, works in a crazy line on G#5 near the end of Endless Sacrifice, and hits an A5 near the end of Peruvian Skies. And these seem to be pretty consistent, he does them every show. He's worked in some really high stuff in TGD as well, and taken a couple of the lines in Forsaken, OTBOA, and CIAW up a bit. Really stunning he can still do that at his age and given all his voice has been through.
Still not 1994 and before, though. He still sounds strained on a lot of the higher melodies, but after a decade of mostly weak (IMO) performances, it seems like he's gotten back on track in a big way.
-
Maybe we can get LATM style Metropolis and AFIL this tour (please please please that'd be awesome), especially if they released it on DVD.
-
I've always felt that LaBrie gets the unfairest criticisms. Actually think he has the toughest job. If he's tired or just not right, he will never be able to hide that fact due to the nature of his instrument.
Whilst all the others could easily do shows on autopilot regardless of their health. I mean you hit a string, it rings out right ? But try even talking if your not 100%.
Not sure what prompted me to stand up for a singer considering i'm a guitarist but there you go.
-
I've always felt that LaBrie gets the unfairest criticisms. Actually think he has the toughest job. If he's tired or just not right, he will never be able to hide that fact due to the nature of his instrument.
Whilst all the others could easily do shows on autopilot regardless of their health. I mean you hit a string, it rings out right ? But try even talking if your not 100%.
Not sure what prompted me to stand up for a singer considering i'm a guitarist but there you go.
I don't agree with you, the stuff the others have to play is at least as difficult, and it's easy to mess it up if you have a injured finger or leg or something, and guitar mistakes are immediately audible. It's just that whenever Petrucci messes up live everyone says "oh whatever, Gods make mistakes too", but when JLB messes up everyone is like "Man JLB messes up all the time."
-
:metal :metal
my first DT concert was in 07 in Porto, jlb was amazing, later that year two times in germany the same.
in 09 in june open air in gelsenkirchen and in winter near stuttgart both times brilliant.
then i was in rome at the 4th of juli and i didn't think he was shaky, he hit the high notes perfectly and had a lot of volume in his voice,
for me jlb is since the budokan dvd on the way up, if you hear the offical live bootlegs between say 95 and 03 he sometimes doesn't
sound great. but at that time he had problems with his voice. i also think that mp with his set lists never tried to ease things up for jlb(see his last interview).
its always the singer who will have problems first with his instrument, in the last three years i was at three maiden concerts and bruce was awful at all of them.
so anybody tell me which singer does in longer terms a better job then jlb, i don't know anybody. :rollin :rollin
-
I've always felt that LaBrie gets the unfairest criticisms. Actually think he has the toughest job. If he's tired or just not right, he will never be able to hide that fact due to the nature of his instrument.
Whilst all the others could easily do shows on autopilot regardless of their health. I mean you hit a string, it rings out right ? But try even talking if your not 100%.
Not sure what prompted me to stand up for a singer considering i'm a guitarist but there you go.
I don't agree with you, the stuff the others have to play is at least as difficult, and it's easy to mess it up if you have a injured finger or leg or something, and guitar mistakes are immediately audible. It's just that whenever Petrucci messes up live everyone says "oh whatever, Gods make mistakes too", but when JLB messes up everyone is like "Man JLB messes up all the time."
I think you missed my point - I'm not saying that his parts are harder & I also realise that if one of them had a specific injury it could hinder them.
What I'm talking about is that even the slightest issue (general unwellness or jet lag) can be heard to affect the vocals. Whilst I think you can get away with it on other instruments.
Your fingers are a bit more robust then the old vocal chords.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I gotta agree.
This. I've been hearing it as far back as 2000 and I also remember hearing the same thing on several of the subsequent tours.
-
Now he's back maybe people will get off his back. The guys a quality singer,period.
-
we are that much closer to hearing
'BLLOOOWWWWWWWJJJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB'
from another hand/ the killing hand from LATM live again
-
People have been saying "he's back" since Octavarium. I don't buy that anymore, he's good at some shows and terrible at others, he sings off key quite often, the high notes have this screechy unpleasant sound, and his enunciation is still terrible. He can't perform like in his younger days, that's impossible by definition, but he still manages to keep up with the show which is all that matters.
-
I've always loved James' vocal ability but this tour also shows that JP has stepped up his vocal ability. He is sounding better too!
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I know what you mean. Not every vid of his has been perfect. But some of his performances of Caught in a Web have been like 95% percent as good as the album, which is tough to accomplish with that song. There's also a certain confidence to him that we haven't seen in some time.
I've always loved James' vocal ability but this tour also shows that JP has stepped up his vocal ability. He is sounding better too!
Also true. JP's singing is the best it's ever been.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I know what you mean. Not every vid of his has been perfect. But some of his performances of Caught in a Web have been like 95% percent as good as the album, which is tough to accomplish with that song. There's also a certain confidence to him that we haven't seen in some time.
I've always loved James' vocal ability but this tour also shows that JP has stepped up his vocal ability. He is sounding better too!
this is what i mean, he is much more self confident since his biggest critic is gone and like he said in his last interview the setlist is done so he can really perform it night by night, i think mp didn't care about that. :tdwn :loser:
Also true. JP's singing is the best it's ever been.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I know what you mean. Not every vid of his has been perfect. But some of his performances of Caught in a Web have been like 95% percent as good as the album, which is tough to accomplish with that song. There's also a certain confidence to him that we haven't seen in some time.
True. Seems to have a ton of confidence, and also seems to be operating with the confidence of the ENTIRE band behind him.
His performance on Learning To Live from Poland might be the best I remember hearing.
People have been saying "he's back" since Octavarium. I don't buy that anymore, he's good at some shows and terrible at others, he sings off key quite often, the high notes have this screechy unpleasant sound, and his enunciation is still terrible. He can't perform like in his younger days, that's impossible by definition, but he still manages to keep up with the show which is all that matters.
Not every show from the I&W tour was great vocally. Your first thought is true. James is great and then can be rough. He's at worst inconsistant, but I feel he's sounds as good on this tour as he's ever sounded.
-
He sounded awesome when they opened for Iron Maiden.
-
People have been saying, "James is back!" every tour for a few years now. Sounds the same to me.
I gotta agree.
QFT
-
he's doing great. the only thing that makes me cringe is the WOAHHHH coming out of the caught in a web solo section. its pretty bad, but then he goes on to sing the next part very very good. and just like the record
-
Honesty, it was hearing James LaBrie's voice that initially got me into Dream Theater in the first place. Being a guitarist, I was of course familiar with John Petrucci, but I never actually sat down and really listened to DT before. It wasn't until late Summer of '06 when VH1 Classic was showing part of the "Score" DVD that I became a fan for life. Of course all of the players completely blew my mind, but I'll always remember the thing that struck me the most about the band was the lead singer. I just felt like he had the most amazing voice I've ever heard before in my life.
I understand that James' operatic style of singing may not be everyone's cup of tea, and the man has had his fair share of vocal problems before, but love him or hate him, he IS the voice of Dream Theater. I was listening to the Polan bootleg yesterday, and I think he's sounding great! :)
-
Now DT needs to put The Killing Hand into their set list :metal
no they don't
-
Now DT needs to put The Killing Hand into their set list :metal
no they don't
Yes, they sure as hell do! :metal
-
I wouldn't complain if they started playing it again.
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
I'm pretty sure I speak for BVD when I say that any song off of Awake would be preferred.
-
Now DT needs to put The Killing Hand into their set list :metal
no they don't
Yes, they sure as hell do! :metal
What TAC said.
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
LOL! Beat me to it - I was gonna say "like something from Awake?" :biggrin:
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
You know it! o/
Nah, I said TKH was at least decent :biggrin:
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
You know it! o/
Nah, I said TKH was at least decent :biggrin:
:neverusethis:
-
To be honest, I think I'd rather them open with TKH rather than UAGM. It's a good song, but it's not really that good as an opener. Or maybe switch UAGM for OTBOA.
-
To be honest, I think I'd rather them open with TKH rather than UAGM. It's a good song, but it's not really that good as an opener. Or maybe switch UAGM for OTBOA.
Would be kind of weird to start the show with the one track from their new album, though, don't you think? I think they've placed it in a great part of the set--they play it right in the middle, after the crowd's been energized, but before they get to the ending songs. Some of the fans may still have not heard it yet, too--would be weird to open with a song that not everybody knows. Given the way the band sort of slowly comes in, it IS a good opener, but it'll fit better in that slot once the new disc is out.
TKH--meh. The LATM version of that song is possibly my favorite DT song ever, but I highly doubt James really could pull off that sort of performance, especially every night. And without that, it really isn't worth playing--again, many fans (even on this forum) haven't even heard it before.
All things considered, I think UaGM is a good choice. Let James get some of his more demanding vocals out of the way early, play a song everyone knows, etc. It doesn't drag, its intro develops well, and just about everybody likes it. The only other serious options would be something overly long like ES, TMOLS, or TCOT, something shorter like Forsaken (which wouldn't start the show off well to the "Ugh, SC" crowd) or one of the overly-MP-influenced songs like NE or TGP. PMU and LtL would work too, but I'm sure they're sick of PMU, and LtL is closing.
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
March of the Tyrant
-
They have too many other good songs to play TKH. If they play that, that means a better song that's being pushed out. It's a decent song, but I can think of dozens of songs I'd much rather hear.
Like Space Dye Vest?
March of the Tyrant
I'd prefer Your Majesty.
-
the gift we bring, your majestey.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
-
To be honest, I think I'd rather them open with TKH rather than UAGM. It's a good song, but it's not really that good as an opener. Or maybe switch UAGM for OTBOA.
Yeah, I agree. OTBOA would be a great opener.
-
On the Backs'll be a great opener once everyone's heard it. As it is, even with a million hits on YouTube, I wouldn't count on everyone being familiar with it yet, which is probably the only reason they're opening with UaGM for now.
-
On the Backs'll be a great opener once everyone's heard it. As it is, even with a million hits on YouTube, I wouldn't count on everyone being familiar with it yet, which is probably the only reason they're opening with UaGM for now.
Plus, you don't want to open with it then not play any new songs for the audience. Kinda weak.
-
On the Backs'll be a great opener once everyone's heard it. As it is, even with a million hits on YouTube, I wouldn't count on everyone being familiar with it yet, which is probably the only reason they're opening with UaGM for now.
Plus, you don't want to open with it then not play any new songs for the audience. Kinda weak.
Aye! Precisely. They'll open with it when it makes sense to. Until then? Whoo UaGM!
-
THIS ONE CONTROLS!! from THAT bootleg
-
wot
-
^^ Home Sweet Home ^^ Highlight of that bootleg ^^
-
oh, alright.
I was expecting something like... Actually he's BACK!
...from vacation, and he's extremely happy to have spent some time with his family.
-
I suppose OTBOA would make more sense to open the show after the new CD is out. I wonder if they will play every song at least once throughout the tour? I think so, but if not probably 7 or 8 of them.
-
Now DT needs to put The Killing Hand into their set list :metal
This! :metal I've read that JP and JM were the ones who didn't want to play WD&DU songs, but if they're playing Ytse Jam, I don't see why TKH couldn't be added to the setlist. Judging by the live videos, James seems to be in a great shape. He completely nailed Learning to Live and Caught in a Web!
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXwPVqZKjY&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXwPVqZKjY&feature=related)
I remember when this video first came out, and people were saying the EXACT same thing. xD As far as I'm concerned, there's been moments since as far back as the SFAM tour when he had nights I could say the same thing about. Just like everybody else, he has both on and off nights. It's just easier to notice with him, not only because he's a lead singer but also because of the material he has to sing, especially the early stuff.
-
https://youtu.be/hbANjz2Ai_8 (https://youtu.be/hbANjz2Ai_8) :yarr
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXwPVqZKjY&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXwPVqZKjY&feature=related)
I remember when this video first came out, and people were saying the EXACT same thing. xD As far as I'm concerned, there's been moments since as far back as the SFAM tour when he had nights I could say the same thing about. Just like everybody else, he has both on and off nights. It's just easier to notice with him, not only because he's a lead singer but also because of the material he has to sing, especially the early stuff.
I'm pretty sure the Octavarium tour was the first one where he changed his vocal coach, and the one where people were really noticing the difference. That's where I'd put the line between food-poisoning-James and strong-singing-James, and I think even James has said that he was really in quite fine form.
Since then, it's kind of become a twice-monthly thing. Which I'm finding a little odd right now - he seems sliiiiiightly weaker on this tour, from what I can tell, but still! Good singer, strong voice, doing some cool stuff.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXwPVqZKjY&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLXwPVqZKjY&feature=related)
I remember when this video first came out, and people were saying the EXACT same thing. xD As far as I'm concerned, there's been moments since as far back as the SFAM tour when he had nights I could say the same thing about. Just like everybody else, he has both on and off nights. It's just easier to notice with him, not only because he's a lead singer but also because of the material he has to sing, especially the early stuff.
I'm pretty sure the Octavarium tour was the first one where he changed his vocal coach, and the one where people were really noticing the difference. That's where I'd put the line between food-poisoning-James and strong-singing-James, and I think even James has said that he was really in quite fine form.
Since then, it's kind of become a twice-monthly thing. Which I'm finding a little odd right now - he seems sliiiiiightly weaker on this tour, from what I can tell, but still! Good singer, strong voice, doing some cool stuff.
I think you're right on the vocal coach switch, which is why Score was such a big deal. I'd forgotten how how damn good he was on that tour. That F# and lead up is as good as he's ever sounded, including IaW tour. He's still hitting the F# well now, but that was just about flawless.
I think each tour it's matter of him being sufficiently warmed up from several shows, but not burned out from too many shows. I think he's probably more easily affected by other factors at his age, even though he's still capable of singing well.
-
Saw him at Wolverhampton....sounded great..MUCH more relaxed without a certain monkey on his back (in fact the whole band look far more relaxed).
James IS a great singer doing a tough job...I'm a gigging guitarist sometimes doing 4 nights in a row, if I have a cold or anything, or feel crap etc it really doesn't impact the gigs whereas when my singer has a cold, or feels under the weather or has a slightly dry throat, tickly throat etc etc - then it will be much harder for him and will be noticeable
.........there aren't many singers that could cope with the demands put on him by the music, so lets just cut him a bit of slack.....
-
Being a singer, here is reality.
Early in a tour. Voice fresh and strong. Feels like it can do anything and usually does. Its an amazing feeling.
Late in a tour. Voice tired and over worked, so not as strong. The voice can only perform at peak level for so long before it needs a extended break.
-
Can anybody link to the Learning to Live video that everyone is raving about? I don't feel like watching every single live version on YouTube
-
The man hasn't sang that powerfully and without making mistakes since like 1994. Everybody at the show in Athens yesterday was amazed from his performance, including the ones who don't really dig his voice and style. He only used falsetto like a couple times during the whole show. Learning to Live and Caught in a Web were sang just like the album versions!! Congrats JLB, welcome back to kicking ass!
Actually, he was in top form the two times I saw DT in 2009 and 2010. Just sayin. ;)
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6gZuj0_oPk
:omg:
-
Agree... he was on fire this time.... something different... I can't name it...
-
You know it! o/
*\o INTERCEPTED
unless there's a rule against that now or something
I'm really glad to hear (read) all this though. I was worried about JLB's voice when I heard Chaos In Motion. IMO, it sounded like he wouldn't be able to hold up at a decent level much longer. That's just me.
-
The clips I've seen of this tour has him sounding really good. I'll reserve final judgement till 9/25 in LA ;D Here's the thing though... the majority of vocalists (Rock/Metal) sound like crap by the time they get in their 40's. Was James voice more powerful 18 years ago? Sure, but I'd say the difference in vocal tone, quality, has suffered very little. Compare him to Geoff Tate...or about any other Metal vocalist who has been around 20 years and he gets the win for quality/longevity. In all honesty, his voice has never been my favorite.....but I'll give the man due props for working hard to keep his voice in top form. He may not be spot on every show, but neither are young vocalists.
-
IMO he's back since at least 2006-2009, he already outdone his 92-94 self at those years. But I'm glad that everyone sees it nowadays.
-
Alright, I have to say from watching the bootlegs so far, he DOES sound a lot more consistent, and I'm one of those people who carefully analyzes his voice on every album and DVD. Caught In A Web in Athens sounded really good, and that's not an easy song. MUCH more controlled vibrato, and he can hit those higher notes without going out of tune like he used to, though he seems to just scream the highest notes in UAGM rather than hit them in head voice, and I'm fine with that, I don't expect him to be able to do it live consistently.
-
I'm one of those people who carefully analyzes his voice on every album and DVD.
Good, I thought it was just me... :rollin
I agree with you, he is sounding better and better as the tour goes on in my opinion.
-
Alright, I have to say from watching the bootlegs so far, he DOES sound a lot more consistent, and I'm one of those people who carefully analyzes his voice on every album and DVD. Caught In A Web in Athens sounded really good, and that's not an easy song. MUCH more controlled vibrato, and he can hit those higher notes without going out of tune like he used to, though he seems to just scream the highest notes in UAGM rather than hit them in head voice, and I'm fine with that, I don't expect him to be able to do it live consistently.
I'm pretty sure he actually takes the UAGM high notes up higher than in the studio--from E to G# if I'm not mistaken. Hence the screamy tone. But I like that--reminds me of the old 1993 performances.
The performances of CIAW, from what I've seen on YT, have been great on this tour. He seems to be much more comfortable on that high section, and really adds some power to those notes rather than just straining up there.
-
He's still inconsistent, but the inconsistency is less...consistent.
-
He's still inconsistent, but the inconsistency is less...consistent.
Hmmm.......It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma....... ;D
-
Every tour there's always someone that says "JAMES IS BACK!!" but he still sounds weak to me.
-
Every tour there's always someone that says "JAMES IS BACK!!" but he still sounds weak to me.
I just listened to a bootleg from their gig in Warsaw from Oct. 2007 and then to a bootleg from last week's gig in Katowice. He's so much better now than he was 4 years ago. Far from perfect, but still very good, especially comparing to what he sounded like during Chaos in Motion Tour.
-
i was at two concerts during the chaos in motion tour plus in summer the same year in gelsenkirchen, germany at a open air venue and for me he jlb sounded great, however i still make my point that this year he is just full of confidence and the best since many years. :hefdaddy :lol especially regarding he does it since over twenty years, which other singer does as well after such a period of time?!
-
i was at two concerts during the chaos in motion tour plus in summer the same year in gelsenkirchen, germany at a open air venue and for me he jlb sounded great, however i still make my point that this year he is just full of confidence and the best since many years. :hefdaddy :lol especially regarding he does it since over twenty years, which other singer does as well after such a period of time?!
Nobody does it better than James LaBrie.
-
Every tour there's always someone that says "JAMES IS BACK!!" but he still sounds weak to me.
I just listened to a bootleg from their gig in Warsaw from Oct. 2007 and then to a bootleg from last week's gig in Katowice. He's so much better now than he was 4 years ago. Far from perfect, but still very good, especially comparing to what he sounded like during Chaos in Motion Tour.
There is probably little little validity to that. He probably had some great shows in 2007 where he was totally strong, and he will no doubt have some weak shows in 2011. The human voice is inconsistent and will differ from night to night. Some nights you can do anything and others you just get by. That's the way it is.
-
Every tour there's always someone that says "JAMES IS BACK!!" but he still sounds weak to me.
He certainly did NOT sound weak to me at Wolverhampton neither to my friend whose first DT concert it was. The first thing he said when we left was how good the singer was. He obviously has nights which are better than others but to just say he is weak full stop is unfair to him.
-
Definitely. Weak isn't an adjective I'd use to describe his recent performances. His tone and timbre have changed, but he still got one hell of a powerful voice.
-
I was at the Vancouver show that appeared on the Chaos in Motion DVD in 2008, he was fucking incredible that night and I have the bootleg from that show to back up that claim. I'm listening to Voices from that show right now and he's KILLING it. They even did the "thought disorder" verse and he again, killed it.
I agree with what a lot of people are saying...the human voice is inconsistent. And I know from experience, sometimes you can do ANYTHING...sometimes you're scraping by.
I did a gig a few weeks back where the first half of the gig, the voice was sounding and feeling awesome...about the middle of the gig I couldn't do ANYTHING I was trying. It was hell. But near the end it got back on track. My point is, his position is always going to be the most scrutinized because it's probably the most upfront. But he's one of my all time favourite singers and is going strong since 1991. He's inspiring!
-
But he's one of my all time favourite singers and is going strong since 1991. He's inspiring!
Winter Rose doesn't count? :lol
-
But he's one of my all time favourite singers and is going strong since 1991. He's inspiring!
Winter Rose doesn't count? :lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_LaBrie#Dream_Theater
:angel: