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Like many bands, Dream Theater seems to have a fanbase that prefers the older material to the newer material. Many fans put heaps of praise on Images and Words and Awake, while expressing the opinion that DT's newer output, while good, just doesn't match up to the older stuff.

I disagree. I prefer DT's newer output. I'd like to see if anyone else agrees with me.

So what say you? Old or new?

Edit: The cutoff point has changed, with SFAM being included in the "older" group. The votes have been reset. If you were one of the 9 or so people that voted before this, please feel free to vote again. :)

I like everything up till 6 Degrees, everything after is.........ok, not great.

Quote from: Adami on July 28, 2011, 01:53:55 PM
I like everything up till 6 Degrees, everything after is.........ok, not great.

I think the major changes that most Dream Theater fans dislike started after 6 Degrees. Not after Falling Into Infinity.

I can't decide..I love them all equally

Neither, and I find that cut-off point to be a little arbitrary. I think their sound has evolved a bit with each album, and I think it's been up and down but, by and large, consistently good with the occasional gem.

Quote from: wammabe on July 28, 2011, 01:55:44 PM

Quote from: Adami on July 28, 2011, 01:53:55 PM
I like everything up till 6 Degrees, everything after is.........ok, not great.

I think the major changes that most Dream Theater fans dislike started after 6 Degrees. Not after Falling Into Infinity.

Quote from: ariich on July 28, 2011, 01:57:50 PM
Neither, and I find that cut-off point to be a little arbitrary.

Ok, should I change it?

Since SFaM is a sequel to a track off of I&W, I would tend to include it with the "older" albums.

Quote from: ZirconBlue on July 28, 2011, 01:59:36 PM
Since SFaM is a sequel to a track off of I&W, I would tend to include it with the "older" albums.

I think you might be right...ok, I'll do that.

He split it between the JR era and the Pre JR era.

Can't really decide. I like the new sound (production) more than the old, but in terms of writing I love songs from both periods. I might be leaning a bit towards modern DT but my favourite song* is ACOS so... hard to say.

*Favourite half the time.. shares the top spot with TCOT.

Quote from: Adami on July 28, 2011, 02:01:25 PM
He split it between the JR era and the Pre JR era.

Well after thinking about it, I agree with Rich. That was kind of arbitrary. SFAM seems to fit more with the older albums.

I cant decide, i really like songs from both periods.
I guess older albums were more thought out and eclectic than the recent ones, but there are also newer songs i love.

Quote from: Gadough on July 28, 2011, 01:52:42 PM
I disagree. I prefer DT's newer output. I'd like to see if anyone else agrees with me.

That'd be me, then.

I'm very drunk right now, so I'm not going to be able to advocate this quite as well as I feel it deserves, (and may even let the side down!) but their newer music is more bombastic. Stronger melodies, more rousing choruses... Images and Words is the only one of the pre-Jordan four which really compares, qualitywise. Awake is consistently "great" but never "brilliant," Falling Into Infinity is inconsistently "great" with moments that are "brilliant," whereas Dream and Day is just plain inconsistent.

Even the relatively overlooked songs like Losing Time (and yes, I'm going to call it a "song") in the newer era tug on my heartstrings far harder than a much-lauded song like Voices, and soar much farther still. One thing I can definitely say in the early-era's favour is that the weaker material is never truly weak. A song like The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun isn't guilty of any crime but being really boring, whereas a song like A Nightmare to Remember has some pretty fundamental flaws in its structure. On the other hand, though, it's got so much stuff running in its favour that I'm more than happy to overlook its shortcomings if it means I can bask in the bona-fide gorgeousness of Beautiful Agony.

New DT makes me want to like it. It's exuberant and bolshy and grandiose, and that's fantastic. Honestly, and this is a bit weird, of the songs on Awake, Scarred and Voices are the ones I'm least likely to listen to. Give me Blind Faith or, heck, I'm going to be tremendously uncool now and say Panic Attack.

...And the moment I said the word "Panic Attack" is the moment my argument has become a little too ambitious for me to supplement, at the moment, with the room spinning, but I stand by it. Or rather, I will in the morning, when I'm sober. Probably. If I'm not hanging my head in shame. (The forum effect! Wouldn't've gone that far sober! That bloke was right!)

Er, long story short, something about Dream Theater. Distraction time: Ooh, don't ADToE look nice? I'm going to buy it all up.

I love how your drunk posts are more eloquent and well-written then the rest of us when we post sober.

Quote from: Gadough on July 28, 2011, 02:23:17 PM
I love how your drunk posts are more eloquent and well-written then the rest of us when we post sober.

Yeah, well CHECK THIS SHIT OUT:

hello babykicks can i lick your elbow or not

How drunk am I?! Also I've just noticed "this" is an anagram of "shit." The more you know.

Old DT for me. They are both great, but nothing can give me a "magical" feel like some I&W.
Then again, OTBOA rocked pretty hard too. I think that from 8VIUM-BC&SL were the "eeeeeeh" points for me. BC&SL has a lot of solo fillers, just random guitar solos and keyboard solos. I don't think they are making it very memorable anymore. Just jamming in a bunch of solos and such into a song to make it long doesn't make it good. I'd rather have a wonderful, quality 5-6-minute song than a song that's just "didididiidididid duuunnn dun dunddundundun beeeeeboooo beeeebooo deepdeepdeep pzooooww" for 20 minutes, and it seems thats what a lot of the songs on BC&SL were like.
IDK, I'm ramblin'. Don't listen to me, I'm just the girl in the background.  :metal

My favorite period is I&W through F-ing.   

I do not dig SFAM

Then, Six is my favorite album.

And then Train of T onwards is a bit of a mixed bag.  TOT is pretty strong, if not mindblowing; Eighthalbum is a great softer album and my favorite post-02, SC has some really awesome moments counterbalanced with some really dull ones, and BC is rather bland, aside from TBOT and TCOT. 

Already done:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=21866.msg832473#msg832473

Quote from: JediKnight1969 on July 28, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
Already done:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=21866.msg832473#msg832473

I figured as much, but I did several searches and found nothing. Oh well.

Quote from: Gadough on July 28, 2011, 02:36:19 PM

Quote from: JediKnight1969 on July 28, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
Already done:

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=21866.msg832473#msg832473

I figured as much, but I did several searches and found nothing. Oh well.

It's OK. Maybe ADToE will bring balance to the force.

Undecided.  I love both era's for completly different reasons. 

Old DT has their best and worst material for me.  New DT is really static, not many classics but not many lame-o songs.  Tough to say.

Old DT...here's why:

-Kevin Moore
-Proggier songs (with the song Octavarium being the exception)
-More thoughtful lyrics
-More fusion based instrumental passages and solos
-James' growly voice
-MP not overplaying
-A lot less dueling key/guitar solos
-A Change of Seasons

It's not the case for a lot of bands that they were better when a certain member was in them but it is for DT. DT was better when Kevin Moore was in the band. Sure Rudess smokes him in terms of chops but KevMo was the right player for the band. Shame it didn't last.

Old as in WDADU-FII. Leaps and bounds superior to anything released after.

I'm into the new(er) stuff, but that's only because that's what I heard first. My first DT album was Train of Thought.

Old, of course.

Well seeing as how my 3 favorite albums (I&W, SFAM, and Awake) are all considered to be 'old', the vote is easy for me. However, I do love SDOIT, TOT, and BCSL.

Quote from: MasterShakezula on July 28, 2011, 02:33:46 PM
My favorite period is I&W through F-ing.   

I do not dig SFAM

Then, Six is my favorite album.

And then Train of T onwards is a bit of a mixed bag.  TOT is pretty strong, if not mindblowing; Eighthalbum is a great softer album and my favorite post-02, SC has some really awesome moments counterbalanced with some really dull ones, and BC is rather bland, aside from TBOT and TCOT. 

Man, I sincerely hate your abbreviations for album names lol.

I can't vote in this pole because I can't feel the split from SFAM and 6DOIT. I think those two albums go hand in hand.

old by a long shot.

Quote from: YtseJam on July 28, 2011, 06:21:41 PM
I can't vote in this pole because I can't feel the split from SFAM and 6DOIT. I think those two albums go hand in hand.

This everything with JR should be new DT

For me it's like this...

Old DT:
-WDADU
-I&W
-Awake
-ACOS
-FII

New DT:
-Scenes
-6 Degrees
-TOT
-Octavarium
-SC
-BC&SL

With that in mind, I choose New DT without a doubt. Most of my favorite DT songs are from their "New" period.

I voted 'can't decide' because both eras have a lot going for them with plenty of incredible highs on either side (as well as both having some weaker moments).  One doesn't easily win out over the other for me.

If I try and look at it from an album rankings point of view, 'old' would win since it has my first, 4th and 5th favourite albums. But if I look through the playlist I recently made of my top 25 tracks - the 'new' would win out, with 15 songs to 10. No idea why I'm analysing it like this, I just find it kind of fun I suppose  :blush

Anyway, if I was forced to give up one era of music and never listen to it again, I think it would probably have to be the new. I couldn't live without Metropolis and Learning to Live!  ;D

Quote from: krands85 on July 28, 2011, 07:07:02 PM

Anyway, if I was forced to give up one era of music and never listen to it again, I think it would probably have to be the new. I couldn't live without Metropolis and Learning to Live!  ;D

If I had to live with one era, I'd pick the new, because idk about you guys, but New DT sounds much more, down to earth, and accessible. Old DT was more like Art-Metal. I would have gotten sick of it after awhile if I could only listen to that. New DT would keep me a little more sane.

Voted newer. I love me some IaW and Awake with some FII and a tiny bit of SFAM, but SDOIT/TOT/8VM is perfect.

Quote from: ricky on July 28, 2011, 06:22:23 PM
old by a long shot.

That.  They've made some cool stuff in both eras though.

-J

I can make one CD that contains all pre-SFAM songs I like. I'll need six CDs to do that for post-SFAM. The DT I love was founded when Rudess blessed the band with his existence.

I love them both a lot, but went with new.
Old for me has IaW, FII and SFAM, which are all perfect, although as people know, I don't care much for Awake. Even without that though, that is an amazing collection of albums. And while some of the newer albums aren't as strong as a whole, going by individual songs I feel they've got more. So the hit percentage might be lower, but that's more than offset by the output. SDOIT is my favourite DT album, and 90 minutes of eargasm, and every album after that has at least 2 top DT songs for me (yes, even SC).

But if I was stuck with either one, I wouldn't complain. There's no DT era I dislike.

I'm the sort who likes to analyze what makes classic songs "classic" and then figure out how to view a more recent song as "classic." With this in mind, I tend to appreciate newer songs a lot more than older ones, though I can definitely see the appeal to the older stuff.

But the fact is, the older stuff was the older stuff. Dream Theater hasn't exactly declined in musicianship since then. They've fine-tuned their skills, found what works for them, and provided us with several fantastic albums since the release of Metropolis, pt. 2. Their older stuff didn't have the band at the best of their abilities.

Most importantly, in my opinion, there's the amount of not-so-good songs. First, the older not-so-good pieces: "Status Seeker," "Light Fuse and Get Away," "Only a Matter of Time," "Caught in a Web," "Innocence Faded" (barring the excellent outro), "The Silent Man," "Lie," "Lifting Shadows off a Dream," "Take Away My Pain," "Just Let Me Breathe," "Strange Deja Vu," a lot of "Beyond This Life," "Through Her Eyes," and *shudder* "The Spirit Carries On?" That's a lot of songs, guys.

Let's look at my not-so-favourites in the latter works: "I Walk Beside You," arguably "Sacrificed Sons," "Forsaken," "The Ministry of Lost Souls," and arguably "Wither."

Yeah, no, I'm going with their latter years.

What if ADTOE ends up being a lot more like old DT like it seems it will?

Quote from: Flacracker on July 29, 2011, 02:05:32 AM
What if ADTOE ends up being a lot more like old DT like it seems it will?

I don't know if it does. I think it might tread a lot of the ground that old DT used to tread, but I get the impression that, more than anything, it's going to be its own album. I don't think it'll be any more comparable to old DT than it is to new DT. On the Backs of Angels certainly isn't.

It'll just be the latest new facet of the new style.

Quote from: Adami on July 28, 2011, 01:53:55 PM
I like everything up till 6 Degrees, everything after is.........ok, not great.

Quote from: DJay32 on July 29, 2011, 12:10:17 AM
Most importantly, in my opinion, there's the amount of not-so-good songs. First, the older not-so-good pieces: "Status Seeker," "Light Fuse and Get Away," "Only a Matter of Time," "Caught in a Web," "Innocence Faded" (barring the excellent outro), "The Silent Man," "Lie," "Lifting Shadows off a Dream," "Take Away My Pain," "Just Let Me Breathe," "Strange Deja Vu," a lot of "Beyond This Life," "Through Her Eyes," and *shudder* "The Spirit Carries On?" That's a lot of songs, guys.

:facepalm:

My list of favorite albums (and songs) is way too mixed to decide something like that. I can't decide, but I can mention a few facts that might eventually help me to make a decision:
1. I love all the albums up to SFAM without an exception.
2. SC and BCSL are the only DT albums that I consider "okay" or worse.
3. I like SDOIT and 8V as much as I love old DT albums or better.
4. SFAM is my favorite album.
5. I like TOT almost as much as I like SDOIT, 8V and old DT albums (the difference is really minor).

So yeah, under those circumstances, one might say I like old DT better, but I really can't make a definite decision.

Quote from: robwebster on July 29, 2011, 02:08:52 AM

Quote from: Flacracker on July 29, 2011, 02:05:32 AM
What if ADTOE ends up being a lot more like old DT like it seems it will?

I don't know if it does. I think it might tread a lot of the ground that old DT used to tread, but I get the impression that, more than anything, it's going to be its own album. I don't think it'll be any more comparable to old DT than it is to new DT. On the Backs of Angels certainly isn't.

It'll just be the latest new facet of the new style.

In 10 years we'll be choosing between "old" "new" and "new new" DT.

"Old" DT for me all the way. I got into the band circa 1996 (via I&W, though the first DT record I ever bought was "Awake") and I listened to the first three records intensely back in the day (and associate the music on the records to a lot of events in my own life). I was also one of FII's most adamant defenders when that record first came out in the old alt.music.dream-theater usenet newsgroup (there was a widespread dislike of it there). On top of that, SDOIT was the last DT record I really, really enjoyed. So yeah, I'm siding with the "old" DT fans on this one. I'm really looking forward to ADToE though (the most pumped for a DT album I've been in many years).

Quote from: Samara on July 28, 2011, 07:24:22 PM

Quote from: krands85 on July 28, 2011, 07:07:02 PM

Anyway, if I was forced to give up one era of music and never listen to it again, I think it would probably have to be the new. I couldn't live without Metropolis and Learning to Live!  ;D

If I had to live with one era, I'd pick the new, because idk about you guys, but New DT sounds much more, down to earth, and accessible. Old DT was more like Art-Metal. I would have gotten sick of it after awhile if I could only listen to that. New DT would keep me a little more sane.

I know, that's what I liked about them!

Old.

Quote from: robwebster on July 28, 2011, 02:19:55 PM...And the moment I said the word "Panic Attack" is the moment my argument has become a little too ambitious for me to supplement, at the moment, with the room spinning, but I stand by it. Or rather, I will in the morning, when I'm sober. Probably. If I'm not hanging my head in shame. (The forum effect! Wouldn't've gone that far sober! That bloke was right!)

(https://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg125/dreamtheaterforums/Misc/Sabredog.jpg)

:D

I mostly agree with your bigger points about new vs. old, although I disagree with some of your specifics.  (ANTR being structurally flawed?  ???  Really?  ???)

This probably more accurately reflects my view:

Quote from: BlobVanDam on July 28, 2011, 11:24:38 PM
I love them both a lot, but went with new.
Old for me has IaW, FII and SFAM, which are all perfect, although as people know, I don't care much for Awake. Even without that though, that is an amazing collection of albums. And while some of the newer albums aren't as strong as a whole, going by individual songs I feel they've got more. So the hit percentage might be lower, but that's more than offset by the output. SDOIT is my favourite DT album, and 90 minutes of eargasm, and every album after that has at least 2 top DT songs for me (yes, even SC).

But if I was stuck with either one, I wouldn't complain. There's no DT era I dislike.

Quote from: Gadough on July 28, 2011, 02:04:16 PM

Quote from: Adami on July 28, 2011, 02:01:25 PM
He split it between the JR era and the Pre JR era.

Well after thinking about it, I agree with Rich. That was kind of arbitrary. SFAM seems to fit more with the older albums.

Oops, I should have explained myself better. I don't think there is any appropriate cut-off. The band have somewhat evolved their sound and style from album to album, and I don't consider "old DT" or "new DT" to have any real meaning or significance.

I wish there was a mid DT vote as my favorite.  I still love both new and old.

Quote from: ariich on July 30, 2011, 04:33:30 AM

Quote from: Gadough on July 28, 2011, 02:04:16 PM

Quote from: Adami on July 28, 2011, 02:01:25 PM
He split it between the JR era and the Pre JR era.

Well after thinking about it, I agree with Rich. That was kind of arbitrary. SFAM seems to fit more with the older albums.

Oops, I should have explained myself better. I don't think there is any appropriate cut-off. The band have somewhat evolved their sound and style from album to album, and I don't consider "old DT" or "new DT" to have any real meaning or significance.

This, essentially. I think that while you can definitely identify tonal clusters, it's becoming far less "now and then" and more "this era and that era and that era and this one." Back when they had seven albums? Sure. But nowadays the differences between Scenes and BCSL are just as pronounced as those between Scenes and, say, Images and Words.

Quote from: bosk1 on July 29, 2011, 05:22:07 PM

Quote from: robwebster on July 28, 2011, 02:19:55 PM...And the moment I said the word "Panic Attack" is the moment my argument has become a little too ambitious for me to supplement, at the moment, with the room spinning, but I stand by it. Or rather, I will in the morning, when I'm sober. Probably. If I'm not hanging my head in shame. (The forum effect! Wouldn't've gone that far sober! That bloke was right!)

(https://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg125/dreamtheaterforums/Misc/Sabredog.jpg)

:D

Yeah, more or less. :hat

Quote from: bosk1 on July 29, 2011, 05:22:07 PMI mostly agree with your bigger points about new vs. old, although I disagree with some of your specifics.  (ANTR being structurally flawed?  ???  Really?  ???)

Aye, I'd say so. The third act is about as long as the first two put together, which I'd describe as far too drawn out for a climax. I'd say that's a bigger problem than anything Scarred's got, but Nightmare to Remember's the one I love and Scarred is the one that I'm bitterly apathetic towards.

For me I usually think of DT's middle era (SFAM and 6DOIT) as being their best with equal love for early and later styles. Although to be honest I probably enjoy later more due to the fact I never want to listen to WDADU anymore and find most of FII boring.