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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Ħ on July 09, 2011, 01:00:58 PM
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I have to say, I like pretty much all of them. I think that DT blends the three very beautifully. :angel:
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By "pop" do you mean the acoustic, lighter songs like Hollow Years?
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By "pop" do you mean the acoustic, lighter songs like Hollow Years?
Yeah, or like I Walk Beside You (which is heavy and electric), or possibly even 6:00, which is definitely very "catchy".
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Pretty :facepalm: poll. I picked all three.
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That's a little more clear. I'd still say the Prog/Metal gets my vote. I love their "pop" songs, but those are not the kinds of songs that would turn me into a DT fan if I were hearing them for the first time.
I love DT's combination of the energy of Metal, with the intricate and complex musicianship of 'Prog.' That's the main reason DT is my favorite band.
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prog/metal. It's a progressive metal band so that's pretty obvious :P
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That's a little more clear. I'd still say the Prog/Metal gets my vote. I love their "pop" songs, but those are not the kinds of songs that would turn me into a DT fan if I were hearing them for the first time.
I love DT's combination of the energy of Metal, with the intricate and complex musicianship of 'Prog.' That's the main reason DT is my favorite band.
This!!!
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I really enjoy all three of them equally, but I picked prog on its own because I feel it is the most important part of the band's sound and ambition. Prog is what makes them different from a lot of artists, because most prog bands I find always have something different about their own music, even if they are the world's biggest DT or Pink Floyd or Rush fan.
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I guess prog. They don't do metal all that well.
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Prog, I've never considered DT a progressive metal band. Plus they don't need metal to make good music.
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I picked Prog/Metal.
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I'm holding off on my vote because I just don't know.
I like Dream Theater for the atmosphere their good music creates, and for their melodies. The latter could easily fall into the pop category (though metal bands have strong melodies too--see heavy, doom, and power metal), but the former? It's hard to say. I like Dream Theater's music best when I can emotionally respond to it, and that can apply to anything they write. For example, if I had to rank my top 5 songs, they'd probably be:
Innocence Faded, Learning to Live, The Spirit Carries On, Lifting Shadows off a Dream, A Change of Seasons
How could I classify that? I don't even know if I could distill the core elements that make me like those songs. Good melodies, maybe, but there's more to it than that. There's also great lyrics, great atmosphere, and just a general power to it all that's intangible.
I listen to a lot of prog, and maybe this is something prog bands do best. I'll consider voting for that.
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Prog, I've never considered DT a progressive metal band. Plus they don't need metal to make good music.
They don't need prog to make good music, either.
It is the hybrid that makes them outstanding.
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I guess prog. They don't do metal all that well.
I kindly disagree. They seem to have more problem fusing their extreme prog and extreme metal elements together. Petrucci comes up with some pretty sick riffs.
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They don't need prog to make good music, either.
It is the hybrid that makes them outstanding.
Basically this.
I mean, I don't want to have a whole "Rock vs. Metal" discussion, but generally Metal is more powerful and more epic. And prog aspect gives it that virtuosity and, well, majesty. So combined, it's a pretty damn grand combination.
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I have to say, I like pretty much all of them. I think that DT blends the three very beautifully. :angel:
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I guess prog. They don't do metal all that well.
I kindly disagree. They seem to have more problem fusing their extreme prog and extreme metal elements together. Petrucci comes up with some pretty sick riffs.
Agreed. They make amazing metal riffs. Better than many metal bands!
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I don't see a prog/rock option. No vote.
Also, 6:00 should never be considered as "pop" OP. EVAR. :lol
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I don't see a prog/rock option. No vote.
Also, 6:00 should never be considered as "pop" OP. EVAR. :lol
The only DT song that I'd even remotely call "pop" is Solitary Shell.
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I don't see a prog/rock option. No vote.
Also, 6:00 should never be considered as "pop" OP. EVAR. :lol
Haha it is FAR from pop. No pop fan would even listen to that song. They would be like, "Where is the nonstop BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM sound? I can't dance to this, WTF...?"
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I'm a pop fan and I don't listen to dance music.
There's also power pop, which has a fine tradition (The Beates, The Who) and continues to this day (They Might Be Giants, Fountains of Wayne). Not all "pop" is necessarily a.) popular or b.) focused on beats. Hell, prog bands have a history of being involved in pop, not just in the 80's but before then. Point of Know Return, anyone? And the thing is they were always really good at it. Dream Theater is no exception.
Dream Theater's certainly approached the pop realm on more than one occasion--see Status Seeker, Another Day, I Walk Beside You. These songs might rock, but they're also credible pop songs. And they're awesome.
6:00 may not be pop, but it's certainly damn accessible to anyone who has an ear for hard rock or metal.
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prog
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I don't see a prog/rock option. No vote.
Also, 6:00 should never be considered as "pop" OP. EVAR. :lol
The only DT song that I'd even remotely call "pop" is Solitary Shell.
Ahem... Falling Into Infinity?
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You forgot "rock." DT does have songs that aren't METAL, but aren't 'pop' or 'prog,' either. Take the Time, for instance, isn't very 'metal' to me.
edit..
Or, pop or prog. When I think pop, I think "I Walk Beside You." When I think prog, I think "Octavarium." Take the Time is rockin', but it's not heavy.....it's just..... rock......with crazy instrumental stuff. Like Kansas on steroids.
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I guess prog. They don't do metal all that well.
If you're talking tough guy metal, I agree for the most part (anything on ToT though is good to me).
I vote prog(ressive). What turned me on to DT was the instrumental to Metropolis. That was the pivotal moment.
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Ahem... Falling Into Infinity?
What about it? It felt more like a Prog Rock album, rather than a Prog Metal album. (Apart from bad ass stuff like Burning My Soul and Peruvian Skies), so I'd say FII is more leaning toward Rock than Metal. I can say, "It's more Pop" in that the songs in it were edited to feel more radio friendly and commercialized. But in that respect, Pop is not an actual genre.
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I guess prog. They don't do metal all that well.
I kindly disagree. They seem to have more problem fusing their extreme prog and extreme metal elements together. Petrucci comes up with some pretty sick riffs.
Agreed. They make amazing metal riffs. Better than many metal bands!
He's made a few pretty awesome ones but I can't recall a single riff from the last 3 albums that sounded above average. Then again I've heard people say the opening guitar riff to "A Nightmare To Remember" is great so it's evident where the bar is.
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He's made a few pretty awesome ones but I can't recall a single riff from the last 3 albums that sounded above average. Then again I've heard people say the opening guitar riff to "A Nightmare To Remember" is great so it's evident where the bar is.
The main riff in Root of All Evil is one of their best.
And while there isn't like, "Oh, man, listen to that one riff" moments in it that I noticed, In The Presence Of Enemies is one of the best Prog Metal songs I've ever heard that has the focus on "Metal".
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He's made a few pretty awesome ones but I can't recall a single riff from the last 3 albums that sounded above average. Then again I've heard people say the opening guitar riff to "A Nightmare To Remember" is great so it's evident where the bar is.
Then what is an "above average riff" for you? Your standards must be quite high...
Ahem... Falling Into Infinity?
What about it? It felt more like a Prog Rock album, rather than a Prog Metal album. (Apart from bad ass stuff like Burning My Soul and Peruvian Skies), so I'd say FII is more leaning toward Rock than Metal. I can say, "It's more Pop" in that the songs in it were edited to feel more radio friendly and commercialized. But in that respect, Pop is not an actual genre.
Well, it's pretty much the closest to "pop" that Dream Theater has ever made. Most of the songs on it beats Solitary Shell by a long shot in that regard :P
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I don't see a prog/rock option. No vote.
Also, 6:00 should never be considered as "pop" OP. EVAR. :lol
Haha it is FAR from pop. No pop fan would even listen to that song. They would be like, "Where is the nonstop BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM sound? I can't dance to this, WTF...?"
Well. Even real fans would not feel like dancing to it as it's in 7/4. :lol
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Well, it's pretty much the closest to "pop" that Dream Theater has ever made. Most of the songs on it beats Solitary Shell by a long shot in that regard :P
Not really. I mean, apart from New Millennium, most of the songs on FII are reliant entirely on riffs, guitars, and like I said, a very rock feel.
Whereas, the Solitary Shell, if you don't count the instrumental section at the end, is entirely reliant on keyboards, which gives it a very "pop" feel. I mean, listening to a song like that, I wouldn't classify it as Rock.
And don't get me wrong, I like Solitary shell, and it's cool that DT has done pretty much EVERYTHING. But I definitely wouldn't say that "pop" is a staple element in DT's music.
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I stay for their progrock/pop elements
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Prog all the way.. there aren't enough phenomenal prog bands around today. Every band member I would consider as a Virtuoso (I don't think singers really count). I hate pop bands and pop music :P... that's why their stuff like epics like Octavarium and A Change of Seasons and others like Beyond this Life, and Wait for Sleep are so incredible. The odd time signatures make the music so more more intense; Especially for those of us musicians :xbones (can't stand their metal songs like As I am and Pull Me Under)
Can I get a Hoo Ra? lol
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Well, it's pretty much the closest to "pop" that Dream Theater has ever made. Most of the songs on it beats Solitary Shell by a long shot in that regard :P
Not really. I mean, apart from New Millennium, most of the songs on FII are reliant entirely on riffs, guitars, and like I said, a very rock feel.
Whereas, the Solitary Shell, if you don't count the instrumental section at the end, is entirely reliant on keyboards, which gives it a very "pop" feel. I mean, listening to a song like that, I wouldn't classify it as Rock.
And don't get me wrong, I like Solitary shell, and it's cool that DT has done pretty much EVERYTHING. But I definitely wouldn't say that "pop" is a staple element in DT's music.
Again, every Dream Theater album that I can recall has had a song that catered to the "flavor of the moment" in popular music (though obviously they've never gone too far). There's some crossover with rock, sure, but Status Seeker and Another Day are very, very clearly pop songs meant to reach a wide audience. I Walk Beside you is another one. These songs rely on a very conventional structure and melodic hooks.
There's enough of this in their music that "pop" really is a staple in Dream Theater's material. Again, I wouldn't argue that that's a bad thing at all, it's just worth observing.
Prog all the way.. there aren't enough phenomenal prog bands around today. Every band member I would consider as a Virtuoso (I don't think singers really count). I hate pop bands and pop music :P...
I see this a lot on prog and metal forums. By extension, do you hate The Beach Boys? The Who? The Beatles? Hell, maybe even Simon and Garfunkel? These were all pop bands, and didn't have any problem accepting that label. I'm sorry to call you out on this if it's only a minor part of your post, but I think it's worth addressing.
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I do not care for the beatles honestly. They have some tunes I think are kind of catchy, but overall... I just can't stand when people say are the greatest band ever because they were so influential. They two categories are mutually exclusive to me. They may have been pioneers, but I don't think they would make a top 100 band list for me. But my opinion on that is typically shunned and dismissed, since I "must just not know any better." Haha, sorry, I know you weren't even talking to me, but that's my comment.
Oh and the beach boys... eh. I find pop music to be incredibly blah and completely unrewarding, generally speaking.
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Again, every Dream Theater album that I can recall has had a song that catered to the "flavor of the moment" in popular music (though obviously they've never gone too far). There's some crossover with rock, sure, but Status Seeker and Another Day are very, very clearly pop songs meant to reach a wide audience. I Walk Beside you is another one. These songs rely on a very conventional structure and melodic hooks.
There's enough of this in their music that "pop" really is a staple in Dream Theater's material. Again, I wouldn't argue that that's a bad thing at all, it's just worth observing.
Well, like I said, if you mean "Pop" in a literal sense, as in, something that's popular at the time, then yes. But Metal is a broad Subgenre of music, Prog is a broad subgenre of music. Pop, in this case, wouldn't be considered a subgenre in itself because there's no concrete sound to what "pop" is. So I don't see why it's an option on the polls, is all.
Like, Linkin Park is pop, and Beyonce' is pop and Backstreet Boys is pop. But obviously the three are all technically different genres of music.
So to say, "I like DT's Pop songs" isn't really an applicable statement, because even if they have something influenced by the music of the times on any given album, it's gonna be different and have a different sound do it every time. And at the end of the day, it's still Rock, whether it's Another Day or I Walk Beside You.
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Can I change my vote? For some reason I didn't see the "all three" option.
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Prog/metal definitely
Some of the posters in this thread seem to have different definitions of pop. Some think pop is the popular music at a given time, and others seem to think pop is just catchy/simple music in general. I don't really know what to think of it.
I certainly have trouble seeing The Who as a pop band, and to say they were a pop band and are now considered a classic rock band by doing nothing to their music kinda leaves the whole pop genre in a blur. If you even consider it a genre.
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I certainly have trouble seeing The Who as a pop band, and to say they were a pop band and are now considered a classic rock band by doing nothing to their music kinda leaves the whole pop genre in a blur. If you even consider it a genre.
Exactly, Pop is not a genre. Pop music is "radio friendly" version of other genres. Whether it's Rock, Jazz, R&B or Dance. The last two are the most common, though.
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I do not care for the beatles honestly. They have some tunes I think are kind of catchy, but overall... I just can't stand when people say are the greatest band ever because they were so influential. They two categories are mutually exclusive to me. They may have been pioneers, but I don't think they would make a top 100 band list for me. But my opinion on that is typically shunned and dismissed, since I "must just not know any better." Haha, sorry, I know you weren't even talking to me, but that's my comment.
Oh and the beach boys... eh. I find pop music to be incredibly blah and completely unrewarding, generally speaking.
What is this I don't even
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Prog....this style brings out the best in DT and shows off their undoubted musical talents.In saying that,i love their metal side as well...it brings so much energy to their music.With DT,its a win/win situation,whatever style they play. ;)
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If by Pop you mean Popular Culture, then I am not sure that DT has ever really been mainstream and would thus not quantify as having produced POP music. If you are referring to the silly, straight 4/4, light, fizzy candy coated crap that is churned out by the cubic assload by most labels that promote teeny-bopper jackwads like Beiber, then THANK GOD, DT has not produced any pop music. If by Pop music you mean the more straightforward, less virtuoso songs like wither then ok, I really wouldnt call them pop, but for the purposes of your poll then Ok, I like those too so I chose all three.
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Chose Prog/Metal
Probably would have picked all three, but couldn't bring myself to attach "Pop" to DT. If it had been called melodic...
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I'm pretty sure I understand what the OP means by DT's "pop" elements, so It's really not a big deal.
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Chose Prog/Metal
Probably would have picked all three, but couldn't bring myself to attach "Pop" to DT. If it had been called melodic...
Or acoustic. Or Melancholy. Or ballad. Or something... But yeah... Pop just doesn't fit.
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He's made a few pretty awesome ones but I can't recall a single riff from the last 3 albums that sounded above average. Then again I've heard people say the opening guitar riff to "A Nightmare To Remember" is great so it's evident where the bar is.
Then what is an "above average riff" for you? Your standards must be quite high...
Depends. Bands like Mastodon, Between The Buried and Me, and Protest The Hero usually have riffs I like in some of the more technical oriented sense (Mastodon isn't so much but they manage to create very simple cool riffs). I guess my current favorites of those as direct examples would be "Naked Burn", "Crack The Skye", "Hearts Alive", "All Bodies", "Backwards Marathon", "Blindfolds Aside".
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I certainly have trouble seeing The Who as a pop band, and to say they were a pop band and are now considered a classic rock band by doing nothing to their music kinda leaves the whole pop genre in a blur. If you even consider it a genre.
The Who identified themselves as a power-pop band, at least initially.
I agree it's blurry, but I've always understood pop music to be focused around melodic hooks. Everything else in the song is built with that in mind. So Kansas would have several pop songs--It Takes a Woman's Love, Point of Know Return, Dust in the Wind, etc. Carry on Wayward Son might or might not be one, but I'm inclined to think it's not because of its complexity and structure.
No one's pretending pop songs are clear-cut, but for all intents and purposes, I don't see why something fairly straightforward like Status Seeker wouldn't be one. Rock and pop certainly aren't mutually exclusive. They never have been.
I'm pretty sure I understand what the OP means by DT's "pop" elements, so It's really not a big deal.
Yeah, it's pretty clear. It's the melodic element. It's also clear when there's a focused pop song--it's usually the one song on every album that especially vocal fans can do without (just look at the response to Forsaken), or are at least underwhelmed by.
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Prog. I don't like metal all that much, and even though I enjoy a lot of pop music, DT's pop material usually just makes me cringe.
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Prog is pretty much the opposite of Pop. The whole point of prog is complex song structures. So a DT song can be Prog and Metal at the same time... It can also be Pop and Metal at the same time, (like Forsaken).
But just because a DT song is softer or more acoustic, soft rock song, doesn't make it a pop song. I would never call Surrounded, or The Spirit Carries on for example, a pop song, because it's got more complexity to it. So by those standards, the soft rock aspect of DT is missing from the poll.
In other words, theres Metal, and there's 'Soft Rock'. Now, it can be Prog Metal, or Prog Soft Rock. Or it can be Pop Metal (like Forsaken), or Pop Soft Rock (like The Answer Lies Within).
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In other words, theres Metal, and there's 'Soft Rock'. Now, it can be Prog Metal, or Prog Soft Rock. Or it can be Pop Metal (like Forsaken), or Pop Soft Rock (like The Answer Lies Within).
In light of this, I don't think we completely disagree. Especially with a band like Dream Theater, the elements are very likely to be mixed. You make some good points as well, and I'm inclined to agree. After all, The Silent Man is one of my favorite songs.
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I've always viewed a pop song as a more catchy lyric based song that has a repetitive use of synthesizers/keyboards and very simple or no use of guitar. A pop song is generally not very original or innovative and is usually directed to a more "mainstream" audience.
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I've always viewed pop as a more catchy lyric based song that has a repetitive use of synthesizers/keyboards and very simple or no use of guitar. A pop song is generally not very original or innovative and is usually directed to a more "mainstream" audience.
This is why pop is listed as an actual genre in most cases. Personally I wish modern pop artists were more Michael Jackson-influenced than they seem to be, because MJ is a really creative artist.
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I've always viewed pop as a more catchy lyric based song that has a repetitive use of synthesizers/keyboards and very simple or no use of guitar. A pop song is generally not very original or innovative and is usually directed to a more "mainstream" audience.
See, that would define pop as a Genre of music, because you're referring to a specific sound. So, in THOSE terms, Dream Theater has almost nothing of the like. Solitary Shell would be the closest.
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I disagree. Solitary Shell would fit under their "classic rock" category for me, their closest to pop (still semi-far) would be Through Her Eyes.
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I disagree. Solitary Shell would fit under their "classic rock" category for me, their closest to pop (still semi-far) would be Through Her Eyes.
Well, if you think so, it only proves my point more. Pop as a genre is nonexistent in Dream Theater.
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I disagree. Solitary Shell would fit under their "classic rock" category for me, their closest to pop (still semi-far) would be Through Her Eyes.
Well, if you think so, it only proves my point more. Pop as a genre is nonexistent in Dream Theater.
I wasn't against your point to begin with. :P
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I wasn't against your point to begin with. :P
I'm just saying. Thanks for confirming.
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How about Anna Lee for DT's pop song?
Hell, even Hollow Years could fit that glove.
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How about Anna Lee for DT's pop song?
Hell, even Hollow Years could fit that glove.
Yeah, when I think of DT's pop side, I think of Hollow Years, About to Crash, etc.
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Yeah, when I think of DT's pop side, I think of Hollow Years, About to Crash, etc.
Again, in this case, Pop isn't a genre, it's more a style of structure. I mean, Anna Lee felt like DT's take on "The Beatles", so it's like saying the Beatles were a pop band. Which is true in the sense that they were mainstream and POPular. But purely speaking, they were a Rock band, so the genre is still Soft Rock.
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Well, what I say is that heaviness is kind of a spectrum, and DT's stuff goes all across the board. Also, the more far to a side a song lies, the more likely it is end up either really strong, or just plain weak (by DT standards)
In terms of really heavy shit,
-A Fortune in Lies kills
-Um, Metro #1, enough said.
-The Mirror/Lie suite are a highlight on an album of highlights.
-The Glass Prison is so powerful that the rest of the (highlight of the 00s, aside from ITPOE/Eightvarium) 7 step suite is almost overshadowed.
-Most of TofT, aside from TDS/ITNOG is bland (by DT standards)
-Panic attack is kind of an earache
-TDEN is, too, though I dig CM.
As for the soft shit,
-The ballads from I&W are why I prefer A-Six over it.
-A's contributions, IF, TSM, LSOAD, and SDV, are all faves of mine.
-TAMP and HY are very beautiful and well-.written emotional ballads.
-I don't care for Anna Lee
-Nor through her eyes.
-The Spirit Whatever is among my least favorite DT.
-The soft Six stuff all goes well.
- I cannot remember much of anything regarding vacant.
-I quite enjoy the soft Octovarium stuff.
-Repentance is cool, TMOLS, not so much.