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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: juice on March 08, 2011, 01:13:28 PM
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I was looking for an article to read for my world religions class and I stumbled upon one where a Hindu and Christian were talking to each other and the Christian was saying that one must accept Jesus as their savior in order to get into heaven. The Hindu believed that if Christianity was correct and Hinduism wrong then one may get into heaven even if they just followed the same moral rules. What do you guys think about this? Could one who is not a Christian get into Heaven even if they are apart of another religion but retain a similar moral code or would they need to accept Christ as their savior?
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I guess it depends on who you ask and what kind of belief they hold.
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Well, as far as the jewish perspective, yes you can still get into heaven.
But I assume you're only interested in christian view points?
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One of the main tennants of Christian faith is that faith in Jesus is the way to get to heaven and it is not based on what you've done or how good of a person you think you are.
My personal belief is that God decides who gets into heaven and not me. I'm not going to try and guess who he'll let in and who he won't.
But I assume you're only interested in christian view points?
I'm pretty sure there are no non-Christian religions that require accepting Jesus in order to get into heaven. :)
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If the only people to get into heaven are the ones who except Jesus, then a lot of people all over the world will be going to hell. I'm a firm believer that if there actually is a heaven, even though I don't believe a word any religous book says, I will still be granted access. If God is all knowing, and I was blessed with the brain he gave me, he should be able to understand why I questioned his existence. Therefore I should not be penalized for it. I behave the way the bible wants me to, I obey all the moral laws of humanity, but I don't attribute it to God. I practice a much better way of life than a lot of people I know who are religous, so the thought that they will get into heaven before me just because they believe in Jesus makes me laugh.
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That's largely a phrase used by fundamentalists and some evangelical Christians, but depending upon who you ask, "accepting Jesus" could mean one of about a billion different things.
-J
EDIT: edited for clarity.
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I was looking for an article to read for my world religions class and I stumbled upon one where a Hindu and Christian were talking to each other and the Christian was saying that one must accept Jesus as their savior in order to get into heaven. The Hindu believed that if Christianity was correct and Hinduism wrong then one may get into heaven even if they just followed the same moral rules. What do you guys think about this? Could one who is not a Christian get into Heaven even if they are apart of another religion but retain a similar moral code or would they need to accept Christ as their savior?
But that's the problem. Christianity claims that the rules cannot be followed perfectly and therefore everyone is deserving of Hell. In order to get out of condemnation you have to accept the blood of Christ as payment for those sins.
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That's largely a belief of fundamentalists and some evangelical Christians, but depending upon who you ask, "accepting Jesus" could mean one of about a billion different things.
-J
Yes. But leaving aside for a moment the issue of what it means to "accept Jesus," I really like this quote:
My personal belief is that God decides who gets into heaven and not me. I'm not going to try and guess who he'll let in and who he won't.
Exactly right. But as far as what God has said on the issue, from Jesus' own lips: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) There are other passages that similarly state unequivocally that Jesus is the only way to salvation. And the reason being, all have sinned, and the penalty for that is eternal death. (Rom 3:23, 6:23) The only way to escape that is to have those sins paid for or taken away. Jesus is the only one who lays claim to being able to accomplish that.
That being said, I still come back to the quote above. There are a few select passages that imply that those who have never specifically had the opportunity to hear about God and the specifics of what he requires will be judged by their consciences. The passages are not very explicit as to how that works, and I can only guess. God has mercy on whom he will have mercy. But I don't think I would want to bank my eternal destiny on poosibly falling under an exception that might or might not apply, when I should be banking it on the rule, since I do indeed have the ability and opportunity (as most do) to find out what I need to do and to do it.
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I swear we have this thread about every three months.
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That being said, I still come back to the quote above. There are a few select passages that imply that those who have never specifically had the opportunity to hear about God and the specifics of what he requires will be judged by their consciences. The passages are not very explicit as to how that works, and I can only guess. God has mercy on whom he will have mercy. But I don't think I would want to bank my eternal destiny on poosibly falling under an exception that might or might not apply, when I should be banking it on the rule, since I do indeed have the ability and opportunity (as most do) to find out what I need to do and to do it.
What are those passages? (not baiting, serious question)
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I swear we have this thread about every three months.
I thought someone posted in an older thread until I saw the opening post was today, cause the last time we had this it was probably the same title.
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That being said, I still come back to the quote above. There are a few select passages that imply that those who have never specifically had the opportunity to hear about God and the specifics of what he requires will be judged by their consciences. The passages are not very explicit as to how that works, and I can only guess. God has mercy on whom he will have mercy. But I don't think I would want to bank my eternal destiny on poosibly falling under an exception that might or might not apply, when I should be banking it on the rule, since I do indeed have the ability and opportunity (as most do) to find out what I need to do and to do it.
What are those passages?
Please use super serious blue from now on.
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That being said, I still come back to the quote above. There are a few select passages that imply that those who have never specifically had the opportunity to hear about God and the specifics of what he requires will be judged by their consciences. The passages are not very explicit as to how that works, and I can only guess. God has mercy on whom he will have mercy. But I don't think I would want to bank my eternal destiny on poosibly falling under an exception that might or might not apply, when I should be banking it on the rule, since I do indeed have the ability and opportunity (as most do) to find out what I need to do and to do it.
What are those passages? (not baiting, serious question)
I'm thinking of Romans 2:14-16, for example. And I seem to recollect a parallel passage in Hebrews, but I'm not specifically remembering where at the moment. But, again, I don't think these prove anything in and of themselves. They may imply an exception. But the important thing is the rule, not a possible exception that may or may not exist.
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That's largely a belief of fundamentalists and some evangelical Christians, but depending upon who you ask, "accepting Jesus" could mean one of about a billion different things.
-J
Yes. But leaving aside for a moment the issue of what it means to "accept Jesus," I really like this quote:
My personal belief is that God decides who gets into heaven and not me. I'm not going to try and guess who he'll let in and who he won't.
Exactly right. But as far as what God has said on the issue, from Jesus' own lips: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) There are other passages that similarly state unequivocally that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
If Jesus is God and God is Krishna, the Tao, source then why must there be an identification *only* with Jesus? Could it be to sustain the institution that is the church? Jesus claims to be God and has no more right to this than Krishna nor the Tao as far as I can see. Hence, follow Krishna or the Tao and you're following God.
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That's largely a phrase used by fundamentalists and some evangelical Christians, but depending upon who you ask, "accepting Jesus" could mean one of about a billion different things.
-J
EDIT: edited for clarity.
At the place I've been going it doesn't just mean accepting Jesus, it means *excluding* (and the emphasis has always been on that) other manifestations of God. Not other Gods, not Gods but God.
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That's largely a belief of fundamentalists and some evangelical Christians, but depending upon who you ask, "accepting Jesus" could mean one of about a billion different things.
-J
Yes. But leaving aside for a moment the issue of what it means to "accept Jesus," I really like this quote:
My personal belief is that God decides who gets into heaven and not me. I'm not going to try and guess who he'll let in and who he won't.
Exactly right. But as far as what God has said on the issue, from Jesus' own lips: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) There are other passages that similarly state unequivocally that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
If Jesus is God and God is Krishna, the Tao, source then why must there be an identification *only* with Jesus? Could it be to sustain the institution that is the church? Jesus claims to be God and has no more right to this than Krishna nor the Tao as far as I can see. Hence, follow Krishna or the Tao and you're following God.
This is what I've been thinking as well. The name of God could be irrelevant as long as they are a manifestation of God that is similar. It just seems like a waste to have all the people who aren't strictly Christians not go into heaven. I probably phrased this terribly but o well.
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one overwhelming word picture in the new testament is of a courtroom scene. we are on trial for our crimes. God is the Judge. Jesus is the lawyer (term "advocate" in I Jn 2, etc) and instead of defending us, he takes the punishment for us (term "propitiation" in Rom 3).
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That's largely a belief of fundamentalists and some evangelical Christians, but depending upon who you ask, "accepting Jesus" could mean one of about a billion different things.
-J
Yes. But leaving aside for a moment the issue of what it means to "accept Jesus," I really like this quote:
My personal belief is that God decides who gets into heaven and not me. I'm not going to try and guess who he'll let in and who he won't.
Exactly right. But as far as what God has said on the issue, from Jesus' own lips: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) There are other passages that similarly state unequivocally that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
If Jesus is God and God is Krishna, the Tao, source then why must there be an identification *only* with Jesus? Could it be to sustain the institution that is the church? Jesus claims to be God and has no more right to this than Krishna nor the Tao as far as I can see. Hence, follow Krishna or the Tao and you're following God.
None of what you posted means anything to people who believe they must accept Jesus to get into Heaven.
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Presumably most people wouldn't reject Jesus who followed the Tao (great way) but I can't speak for them. But by "accept" I think many people mean implicity "reject" all else.
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I swear we have this thread about every three months.
Well then, make sure you change the batteries in your smoke detectors every two threads. :tick2:
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So I had a thought this morning as I was driving in to work. The two main passages I can think of that are attributed to Jesus speaking are:
No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Here's what I get from these two passages:
Jesus is the way to God and all who believe in Jesus will enter heaven.
There is nothing in these two passages that says that those who do not believe in Jesus will not be able to enter heaven. They would still have to enter heaven through Jesus according to the first passage, but aren't explicitly excluded based on these passages.
Thoughts? Any other verses I'm missing?
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I swear we have this thread about every three months.
Well then, make sure you change the batteries in your smoke detectors every two threads. :tick2:
:lol
So I had a thought this morning as I was driving in to work. The two main passages I can think of that are attributed to Jesus speaking are:
No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Here's what I get from these two passages:
Jesus is the way to God and all who believe in Jesus will enter heaven.
There is nothing in these two passages that says that those who do not believe in Jesus will not be able to enter heaven. They would still have to enter heaven through Jesus according to the first passage, but aren't explicitly excluded based on these passages.
Thoughts? Any other verses I'm missing?
I mean, there are verses that say "those who do X will surely perish in eternal fire" type stuff (paraphrasing :biggrin:), but for the most part I agree. The details are left unclear.
-J
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As a Christian, I've never understood where in the Bible it said people had to pray a specific prayer or make a specific request to get into heaven. At the same time, it is made quite clear that the way to heaven is through Christ.
To be honest, I really don't know. I would always encourage anyone interested in Christianity to call out to Christ, as it may be a necessary condition, but it's one of those gray areas IMO.
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I always thought that, if there is a God and He is just, he won't punish me for having my own opinion. If He is so vain that He needs to be worshiped in order to show compassion, eh.
rumborak
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If you are Christian then yes it is necessary; no getting around it. If you are Christian and think otherwise(baring those who have not heard of Jesus)... your brain modular then the average.