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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: ricky on January 17, 2011, 10:56:01 PM
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Here's why.
Bosky, hear me out. This isn't a trollfest.
I've been sneaking around MP's forum, and it's becoming obvious to me he made a bad decision. Long story short, read here: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2615272&mpage=3#2626377.
I think he regrets his decision, although he won't admit it.
Did he make a mistake leaving?
Edit - Edit's all over the place.
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Willis, I demand that you elaborate on your recent comment.
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Of course he did and he knows it. But the band chose to move on and he has treated himself post-"meltdown", IMO, quite well and seems to be ready to go with his projects!
I think Mike finally has found the fun/spark again and seems happier and I think DT want to see where their new drummer might take them.
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AT first? Most definitely. In fact he might still. But if you read on and see the rest of his updates, he's obviously excited. He's happy, the creative juices are flowing. He's got his inspiration.
I'd say why he may not view it as his best decision, I'm sure he's at peace with it. All's well that ends well, eh?
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I think he regrets his decision, although he won't admit it.
Where did you that implication from that post? By scrambling the letters around?
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I'm not sure why this is even a thread.
Did MP regret leaving DT?
Yes.
How do we know?
He tried to come back.
Case closed.
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What Adami said.
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I'm not sure why this is even a thread.
Did MP regret leaving DT?
Yes.
How do we know?
He tried to come back.
Case closed.
This.
Plus, he seems really happy to be at work on a whole new project, free of the Dream Theater name and all the expectations that come with it, which was basically what set all this in motion to begin with. Now he can start on something completely fresh. I'm sure leaving DT was a very difficult decision for him, and he obviously second-guessed his decision when he tried to get back in, but now that he's out for good, he has no choice but to move forward, and based on his enthusiasm for this new project, it seems like his initial decision to part ways with DT has been validated. Good for him, here's hoping Portnoy's new band will kick much ass. :metal
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I think he regrets his decision, although he won't admit it.
Where did you that implication from that post? By scrambling the letters around?
Yeah, I was wondering that myself...sounds to me like he's excited to start drumming on a new project. And why shouldn't he? All the best to him!
EDIT: Ninja'd by a very similar post.
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Ninja'd by a very similar post.
Ninja'd!
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Adami, the OP didn't ask whether MP regrets the decision. He obviously does because his relationships with the other members have soured to the point that he asked to come back even though he didn't really want to.
But the question was did he make the right decisions, to which the answer is absolutely yes. His heart wasn't in it and he found things getting stale, so if he had stayed we would have had a DT lacking any drive or determination. Whereas now the band are pushing forward excitedly, and Mike is getting involved in some really great sounding projects and getting to spend a lot of time with his good friend Neal Morse who he really connects with on many levels. So yes, definitely the right decision.
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I think Portnoy made a mistake sure. But I think its for the greater good for all involved. Fate is good.
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I don't give a hoot!
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Adami, the OP didn't ask whether MP regrets the decision. He obviously does because his relationships with the other members have soured to the point that he asked to come back even though he didn't really want to.
But the question was did he make the right decisions, to which the answer is absolutely yes. His heart wasn't in it and he found things getting stale, so if he had stayed we would have had a DT lacking any drive or determination. Whereas now the band are pushing forward excitedly, and Mike is getting involved in some really great sounding projects and getting to spend a lot of time with his good friend Neal Morse who he really connects with on many levels. So yes, definitely the right decision.
In that sense, it's still too early to tell. I don't think anything Mike does from now on will ever have quite the same impact on the music world as what he would have done in Dream Theater. From now on, whether he likes it or not, he is on the decline. Whereas if the trajectory Dream Theater have been on for the last couple of album cycles continues, soon they will reach their zenith in terms of popularity-- and that incarnation of Dream Theater will not include Mike Portnoy. I do wonder how Mike will cope with that. Time will only tell. And, by that time, I think only Mike will know the real answer as to whether he's made the wrong move or not.
Of course, as you mentioned the upside is that lots of good can come out of making a mistake. Many artists best works are the ones that they weren't most renown for. What Mike does in the future really won't be more well-known than anything he's done with Dream Theater; but that's not to say that it won't or can't be better.
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eih.. I might be a little behind there but why is Mike working on something right now? I thought the whole problem with DT was because he wanted to take a year off..
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eih.. I might be a little behind there but why is Mike working on something right now? I thought the whole problem with DT was because he wanted to take a year off..
This is a pretty common misunderstanding of what's going on. Mike only wanted a break from Dream Theater, not necessarily his other projects.
Basically, it goes like this:
1.) Mike spent the spring touring with Hail and Transatlantic and summer touring with Avenged Sevenfold
2.) Mike had an awesome time touring with those guys.
3.) Mike realized that the level of socialization he has with the Dream Theater guys is nowhere near on the level of what he was experiencing with his other projects.
4.) Mike decided it was time to give his baby DT a rest. The other guys didn't agree, and so they parted ways.
5.) Mike tried to come back later, but the guys in DT said no as they already offered the new guy a job
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I see, thanks for the clarification.
It just occurred to me that it's a good think an Axl Rose situation didn't happen there where a conflict between the band and a founding member would enable that member of keep the band name after they split, although MP is not the asshole Axl was.
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Here's why.
Bosky, hear me out. This isn't a trollfest.
I've been sneaking around MP's forum, and it's becoming obvious to me he made a bad decision. Long story short, read here: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2615272&mpage=3#2626377.
I think he regrets his decision, although he won't admit it.
Did he make a mistake leaving?
Edit - Edit's all over the place.
Where do you get that from that particular thread?
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The only drummer I can think of that went on to bigger, if not better things was Phil Collins (oh and Justin Bieber) so he's probably made a mistake in financial terms, but if he's happier that means much more. Depends on your definition of a mistake I guess.
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he sounds excited here, but I can't imagine any of them not being sad. I certainly am. but as I will learn to move on and make the best of it, it sounds like they all are as well
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He's definitely regretted his decision, especially since his departure wasn't really intended initially.
Was it a mistake? Not sure. He's had a long run with DT and they needed to shake their foundations anyway to get rid of the mold.
rumborak
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Ask him in a couple of years and you'll get a worthwhile answer with some perspective behind it.
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Does he regret it? I think so. If he didn't why would he have tried to rejoin? Was it a mistake? Only time will tell, but I don't think so. This is an opportunity for both MP and DT to grow and do different things.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGwusHrOtk
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He's definitely regretting the decision. Or was regretting it before the hoidays. Not sure what his current mindset is. In terms of his long term financial future, yes leaving was probably a mistake. But as far as a personal or creative decision, only time will tell.
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Was it a mistake? There really is no way to decide that, at least now. Even down the road we may see MP's career go in the shitter (unlikely), but MP may not see it that way. For all we know, leaving could have been the exact opposite of a mistake.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjGwusHrOtk
:tup One of my favorites.
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Was it a mistake? There really is no way to decide that, at least now. Even down the road we may see MP's career go in the shitter (unlikely), but MP may not see it that way. For all we know, leaving could have been the exact opposite of a mistake.
I agree it's unlikely that his career goes in the shitter but he will never achieve as much as he achieved with DT.h.
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no duh it was a mistake and he knows it too. he said he would like to rejoin DT to keep his relationships with the members or something like that.
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It was a mistake on his part but I think it relieved the other members. I think the other members were tired of constantly being told by Mike that he was the boss and everything was going to be done his way. He just alienated member after member.
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I know I heard years ago that DT had said that if anyone left the band (the MP, JP, JM, JLB, JR lineup) that DT would break up. But then there goes MP, and the rest of the band carries on, so maybe they were relieved. They evidently didn't miss him enough to give him his old job back when he asked.
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Ultimately, yes he did. He absolutely knows it as well.
Mike gambled...and lost. He gambled that the band would do what he wanted, and that he was irreplaceable. Whoops! :lol
What Mike should have done was decide on his own that he wanted to just play drums for the next record and tour cycle and force himself to disconnect from the many hats he took on, and asked his former bandmates to take them on. In essence, mentally get to a place where he could concentrate on playing some killer drums, and just being a drummer for awhile until he found himself in a good headspace again.
The guy lost his father and best friend, and then during the grief process for that, had Dream Theater looking to make a new record, and then dealt with more grief by witnessing the guys from A7X deal with it. That's a lot on the head of Mr. Portnoy. But he expected Dream Theater to just do what HE wanted, or at least partially do what he wanted...and they did. They took a break. They set a date to get back in the studio, and his bandmates wanted him to continue.
Instead of doing it, and coping with what he was going through by disconnecting from certain aspects for a bit and just doing the record, he made it all dramatic (insert well debated and gone over details here).
Then he blows it with A7X (again, insert details and debate here), and finds himself grasping back at DT, at which point, they have moved on (and frankly, rightfully should have, considering MP made DT second potatoes in my opinion, whereas the rest of the guys knew not to bite the hand that feeds).
But my personal view on that aside, absolutely Mike knows he made a mistake. But at this point, all he can do is move on, immerse himself in projects, try and get himself a revenue stream that can continue to support his family in a manner they are accustomed to being in, and go with the flow.
Mike will ultimately land on his feet. But he (and I think the majority of folks looking at the situation objectively) know that he made a big mistake. We'll see him on stage playing Metropolis for the 30th Anniversary gig, I'm sure of it. But I highly doubt he'll ever be back in the band. They've moved on, and frankly, so should Mike. He's one of the most talented drummers out there. Opportunity awaits. He just needs to seize the day...
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This Samsära guy doesn't post too much, but he's pretty much always right. :tup
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No. He felt he wanted a break from all that mess, the others said no, so what else you gonna do. He made a mistake of taking a break and thinking the others would follow, plus he didn't have to make all those choices, he could've just asked the others if they want to take over those things that are stressing him.
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This Samsära guy doesn't post too much, but he's pretty much always right. :tup
:facepalm:
Nothing he doesn't already know! :D
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didn't see samsara's post...he pretty much said it all. Now we all just have to play the waiting game.
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He quoted me in his signature, he obviously likes being appreciated. :lol
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From now on, whether he likes it or not, he is on the decline.
I don't see how that's a given. For all we know, breaking from DT and being "just a drummer" for a while rather than spokesman, producer, arranger, and all that, is just what he needed. He's worked with Neal and them before, but never with Avenged Sevenfold, and the Mike who returned to DT may have been quite different from the Mike on the last album and tour. Okay, that didn't happen and instead he moved on, but during the month or so of second-guessing and soul-searching, he may well have come into the mental attitude that enables him to reach even greater heights than before.
The project with the Dregs guys, Neal's next album, or any future project, could blow us away and have us thinking "Holy shit, that's Portnoy?!" Someday people might look at the amazing career of Mike Portnoy and how he got his start with that progmetal band Drum Theatre or something, but once he left them, things really starting clicking.
Personally, I'd really be surprised if that happened, but I don't like absolutes. I really believe that people can change and that somebody, anybody, can put out an album that really surprises me, because it's happened a few times.
Oh yeah, did he make a mistake? No. A "mistake" is when you do something "wrong" and in music there is no right or wrong. There's the music you make today, the music you made in the past, and the music you will make in the future. He left DT. It was his choice. It may have been a hasty or not completely thought out decision, but it was his to make and he made it. As I said, for all we know, he could go on to make some astounding music that never would have happened if he'd stayed with DT.
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From now on, whether he likes it or not, he is on the decline.
I don't see how that's a given. For all we know, breaking from DT and being "just a drummer" for a while rather than spokesman, producer, arranger, and all that, is just what he needed. He's worked with Neal and them before, but never with Avenged Sevenfold, and the Mike who returned to DT may have been quite different from the Mike on the last album and tour. Okay, that didn't happen and instead he moved on, but during the month or so of second-guessing and soul-searching, he may well have come into the mental attitude that enables him to reach even greater heights than before.
The project with the Dregs guys, Neal's next album, or any future project, could blow us away and have us thinking "Holy shit, that's Portnoy?!" Someday people might look at the amazing career of Mike Portnoy and how he got his start with that progmetal band Drum Theatre or something, but once he left them, things really starting clicking.
Personally, I'd really be surprised if that happened, but I don't like absolutes. I really believe that people can change and that somebody, anybody, can put out an album that really surprises me, because it's happened a few times.
Oh yeah, did he make a mistake? No. A "mistake" is when you do something "wrong" and in music there is no right or wrong. There's the music you make today, the music you made in the past, and the music you will make in the future. He left DT. It was his choice. It may have been a hasty or not completely thought out decision, but it was his to make and he made it. As I said, for all we know, he could go on to make some astounding music that never would have happened if he'd stayed with DT.
MP is the new Phil Collins. Just watch.
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Does MP play anything but drums actually?
EDIT: Actually, he played guitar on Nightmare Cinema, right?
rumborak
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Does MP play anything but drums actually?
EDIT: Actually, he played guitar on Nightmare Cinema, right?
rumborak
Bass I think. Transatlantic do a similar instrument-swapping thing sometimes and he plays bass then.
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He quoted me in his signature, he obviously likes being appreciated. :lol
It was too good not to use in my sig. lol.
On a serious note, thank you for the compliment on my post. :)
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(and frankly, rightfully should have, considering MP made DT second potatoes in my opinion, whereas the rest of the guys knew not to bite the hand that feeds).
This is what irritated me the most about MP leaving. I thought it was a little too presumptuous to ask the other guys to take a break from their main source of income.
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he will be back for dt 12 bet ur life on it
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From now on, whether he likes it or not, he is on the decline.
I don't see how that's a given. For all we know, breaking from DT and being "just a drummer" for a while rather than spokesman, producer, arranger, and all that, is just what he needed. He's worked with Neal and them before, but never with Avenged Sevenfold, and the Mike who returned to DT may have been quite different from the Mike on the last album and tour. Okay, that didn't happen and instead he moved on, but during the month or so of second-guessing and soul-searching, he may well have come into the mental attitude that enables him to reach even greater heights than before.
The project with the Dregs guys, Neal's next album, or any future project, could blow us away and have us thinking "Holy shit, that's Portnoy?!" Someday people might look at the amazing career of Mike Portnoy and how he got his start with that progmetal band Drum Theatre or something, but once he left them, things really starting clicking.
Personally, I'd really be surprised if that happened, but I don't like absolutes. I really believe that people can change and that somebody, anybody, can put out an album that really surprises me, because it's happened a few times.
Oh yeah, did he make a mistake? No. A "mistake" is when you do something "wrong" and in music there is no right or wrong. There's the music you make today, the music you made in the past, and the music you will make in the future. He left DT. It was his choice. It may have been a hasty or not completely thought out decision, but it was his to make and he made it. As I said, for all we know, he could go on to make some astounding music that never would have happened if he'd stayed with DT.
Excellent post.
-J
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Ask him in a couple of years and you'll get a worthwhile answer with some perspective behind it.
best answer thus far.
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Definitely wasn't a mistake, but I hope he comes back soon..
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Yeah, I think so. DT won't be the same without him.
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he will be back for dt 12 bet ur life on it
I highly doubt it.
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I don't give a hoot!
but don't pollute.
:tick2:
says Woodsy the Owl.
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(https://www.fs.fed.us/outernet/r8/gwj/lee/recreation/images/woodsy_just_for_kids.png)
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he will be back for dt 12 bet ur life on it
I highly doubt it.
+1
Although, I think while we both doubt it, we both kinda wish it.
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I don't wish it.
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Do you think Portnoy knows who the new drummer is, or is he in the dark just like the rest of us?
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He made a mistake for himself, but not for the rest of us, in my opinion.
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Do you think Portnoy knows who the new drummer is, or is he in the dark just like the rest of us?
I've wondered that myself. If it is a legal thing holding DT up, I could definitely see him knowing.
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Yeah, I suppose MP could have been told who the new drummer is through
settlement negotiations.
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he will be back for dt 12 bet ur life on it
I highly doubt it.
+1
Although, I think while we both doubt it, we both kinda wish it.
I certainly don't.
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I'm sure he started to regret his decision after his time with A7X ended. Who'd try to rejoin their former band if they didn't regret their departure? But I guess he'll get over it after some time.
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he will be back for dt 12 bet ur life on it
I'd rather not.
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So, I just went over to mp.com to see the thread about SDV, but I kinda stopped at the front page, because (I didn't realize) the current incarnation of the opening text is "MP is a founding member and drummer of Dream Theater". Now, I know one could interpret that sentence as "a founding member + a drummer of", but it just strikes me as absolutely bizarre that he would make no direct mention of that he is a former drummer of that band.
rumborak
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Rumbo, he changed that weeks ago. It originally listed him as "ex drummer", then he switched it back to "Drummer", even capitalizing the word "Drummer".
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Yeah, there was much controversy when that happened, as there seems to be whenever Mike does anything these days. What does it mean? What was he trying to say? Was he trying to imply that is still the drummer, or even the Drummer? It was a dark and turbulent time.
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Did MP make a mistake leaving DT? Yes.
Is DT better off because MP left? Yes.
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It amazes me that many people on here think that Mike leaving is the best thing for DT. I'm sorry but MP is DT. No one in DT has Mike's charisma. He was the captain of that ship and without him the ship is gonna sink. Whatever popularity and mainstream success they have is because of his hard work and labor he did for that band, both in and outside the studio. I think a lot of people are forgetting what Mike really meant to DT and the access he gave to their fans. DT will suffer without him.
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It amazes me that many people on here think that Mike leaving is the best thing for DT. I'm sorry but MP is DT. No one in DT has Mike's charisma. He was the captain of that ship and without him the ship is gonna sink. Whatever popularity and mainstream success they have is because of his hard work and labor he did for that band, both in and outside the studio. I think a lot of people are forgetting what Mike really meant to DT and the access he gave to their fans. DT will suffer without him.
I wouldn't say it is the "best thing for DT," and I think there are few here who would actually go that far. However, although Mike's hard work, commitment, and contribution to DT contributed significantly to the band's signature sound and their success, you are WAY overstating his role. He will surely be missed by both the fans and the band members. But I'm sure the band will continue and will be just fine without him.
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It amazes me that many people on here think that Mike leaving is the best thing for DT. I'm sorry but MP is DT. No one in DT has Mike's charisma. He was the captain of that ship and without him the ship is gonna sink. Whatever popularity and mainstream success they have is because of his hard work and labor he did for that band, both in and outside the studio. I think a lot of people are forgetting what Mike really meant to DT and the access he gave to their fans. DT will suffer without him.
Well, if he was captain of the ship then I'm sure the next album has to be fantastic! The last one was horrible and the 2 before it weren't much better. Maybe it's time for a new skipper at the helm!
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It amazes me that many people on here think that Mike leaving is the best thing for DT. I'm sorry but MP is DT. No one in DT has Mike's charisma. He was the captain of that ship and without him the ship is gonna sink. Whatever popularity and mainstream success they have is because of his hard work and labor he did for that band, both in and outside the studio. I think a lot of people are forgetting what Mike really meant to DT and the access he gave to their fans. DT will suffer without him.
I wouldn't say it is the "best thing for DT," and I think there are few here who would actually go that far. However, although Mike's hard work, commitment, and contribution to DT contributed significantly to the band's signature sound and their success, you are WAY overstating his role. He will surely be missed by both the fans and the band members. But I'm sure the band will continue and will be just fine without him.
I guess time will tell if I'm overstating his role or not. I hope I'm wrong by the way.
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This idea that everything will collapse w/o MP running the show just baffles me.
It's like a controlling helicopter parent who won't let a kid do anything for themselves, then tell's the kid that they could never make it on their own. The kid never even gets a change to demonstrate their abilities! Of course, in this case we know that the other guys are capable, as they were more active back when the band (appeared to) have a greater balance of power.
I'm very excited to see who steps up to the plate and how they do so.
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it is mostly sentimental for me...I'm sure DT will do great, and I'm sure MP will do great. who knows, they might both even do better. it is just hard for me because I love MP and I love DT and I prefer to see them together. even if the album is better, it will take me a while to grow into it
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It amazes me that many people on here think that Mike leaving is the best thing for DT. I'm sorry but MP is DT. No one in DT has Mike's charisma. He was the captain of that ship and without him the ship is gonna sink. Whatever popularity and mainstream success they have is because of his hard work and labor he did for that band, both in and outside the studio. I think a lot of people are forgetting what Mike really meant to DT and the access he gave to their fans. DT will suffer without him.
Well, if he was captain of the ship then I'm sure the next album has to be fantastic! The last one was horrible and the 2 before it weren't much better. Maybe it's time for a new skipper at the helm!
I'm not even talking about the music. Music is subjective, just because you hated their latest albums doesn't mean every DT fan does. Plus JP is the main songwriter for that band so if you're going to blame anyone on how the albums have been you better blame him. Count of Tuscany's cheesy lyrics didn't come from Mike.
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Well, then I guess he's not that damn important, and the band will be just fine without him then
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Manticore, you need to dial it down a notch. There's nothing wrong with the points you are posting, but the tone of your posts is borderline baiting.
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Understood. Sorry, I got carried away.
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No problem. Thanks.