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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: bosk1 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:10 AM

Title: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 07, 2010, 10:21:10 AM
First and foremost, I am not trying to "one-up" the other poll.  I just want to see how the votes shake out with the list done a bit differently.  Feel free to vote/discuss in both threads.

There may perhaps be some debate over whether a couple of the choices above quality or why something else wasn't on the list.  But while there are pretty standard, agreed-upon criteria for what may or may not make a song an "epic," when you get close to the edges, I think the lines become a bit blurry.  So while I recognize that this list may not be agreed on by everyone, it is what it is.  I'm perfectly fine for someone arguing that some other song should quality or that any of the above do not.  But, again, with the acknowledgement that there is not really a bright line to tell what is "in" and what is "out," I can easily justify everything that is on and off this list.  Yes, some shorter songs certainly qualify as being "epic," but are they epics?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But this collection of songs, in my mind, mostly clearly qualify, and over the history of the band will probably most universally and consistently be thought of as the band's "epics."  Opinions may vary.

Also:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=13921.0
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 07, 2010, 10:24:18 AM
EVE IS EPIC WHY ISN'T IT HERE

Oh, and I voted A Change of Seasons.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 07, 2010, 10:26:03 AM
EVE IS EPIC WHY ISN'T IT HERE

:bosk1:
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 07, 2010, 10:26:54 AM
*post that I would make if I weren't banned*
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Nick on June 07, 2010, 10:28:59 AM
Octavarium, A Change of Seasons, The Count of Tuscany, Six Degrees, In the Presence of Enemies.

All top 10 DT songs for me.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 07, 2010, 10:31:16 AM
ACOS, even though SDOIT is my favorite album.  Tough choice.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: King Postwhore on June 07, 2010, 10:54:18 AM
Like Nick said, all top ten for me but I can never get enough of OV8.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Zydar on June 07, 2010, 10:55:45 AM
Six Degrees
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Jamesman42 on June 07, 2010, 11:03:17 AM
Tick Toctavariumbrella.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: DarkLord_Lalinc on June 07, 2010, 11:03:46 AM
Six Degrees
'tis this.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: tri.ad on June 07, 2010, 11:04:26 AM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Dcrupi on June 07, 2010, 11:19:08 AM
Six Degrees. 

Really come to appreciate this song lately, my favorite always used to be 8vm, but recently have become obsessed with Six Degrees.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: moffatt on June 07, 2010, 11:26:31 AM
Octavarium
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: lateralus88 on June 07, 2010, 11:27:47 AM
Octavarium is the only proper choice.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: yeshaberto on June 07, 2010, 11:51:02 AM
I like Octavarium and SDOIT equally, but go with SDOIT simply because it is quantity
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: glaurung on June 07, 2010, 11:51:38 AM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.

How is it not an epic?
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Adami on June 07, 2010, 11:55:09 AM
I vote ACOS. I still view 6doit as a collection of songs, despite their claim that it's one song.

I also think that 8VM set up the formula for all future epics, where as ACOS doesn't follow any formula and it just rules.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: robwebster on June 07, 2010, 11:57:18 AM
I also think that 8VM set up the formula for all future ballads
I know that I can often be a bit facetious, but sincerely, what does that even mean? Authentically curious.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Adami on June 07, 2010, 11:59:50 AM
I also think that 8VM set up the formula for all future epics
I know that I can often be a bit facetious, but sincerely, what does that even mean? Authentically curious.

Well 8vm, ITPOE and TCOT follow a somewhat similar formula. Where as ACOS just kind of does its own thing.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: contest_sanity on June 07, 2010, 12:03:25 PM
There's just something about "Octavarium."  Also, I think there's something to be said for "In The Name Of God" as an epic, and it might have garnered my vote had it been present.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 07, 2010, 12:04:30 PM
I also think that 8VM set up the formula for all future epics
I know that I can often be a bit facetious, but sincerely, what does that even mean? Authentically curious.

Well 8vm, ITPOE and TCOT follow a somewhat similar formula.  

???  Really?  How so?  Other than some very superficial similarities (long introductory section that is primarily instrumental, long-ish instrumental section about 1/2 - 2/3 of the way in, gradual building in intensity with a climax/resolution toward the end--all of which are also shared by ACOS, I might add), I don't really see anything resembling a pattern.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: orcus116 on June 07, 2010, 12:04:51 PM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.

How is it not an epic?

It just doesn't have the same quality or feel as the others. The only part of the song that comes close is the great instrumental intro which devolves into the rest of the song, which is fairly average DT musically speaking. I wonder if it got the epic label because of the song comparisons Portnoy was throwing out before the release of Black Clouds. I'm getting the impression that whatever the longest song on any new DT album will be called an epic regardless.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: ScioPath on June 07, 2010, 12:07:03 PM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.

How is it not an epic?

TCOT has a great intro and some genuine keyboard magic but other thatn that, i dont feel that its a very epic.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: contest_sanity on June 07, 2010, 12:08:29 PM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.
How is it not an epic?
One might also point out that it lacks explicitly defined "movements."  But then, "The Killing Hand" has those, so is it an epic?
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Mladen on June 07, 2010, 12:11:06 PM
A Change of Seasons
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: toro on June 07, 2010, 12:11:36 PM
Octavarium is the only proper choice.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 07, 2010, 12:16:38 PM
I'm listening the LSFNY version of ACOS right now.  Fuckin' amazing!!   :metal


EDIT:  At the end James says, "Sorry about the short set."   :lol
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 07, 2010, 12:24:47 PM
I'm listening the LSFNY version of ACOS right now.  Fuckin' amazing!!   :metal

It's almost not even fair to all the other epics in the world that that version exists.  SO good!
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: ZBomber on June 07, 2010, 12:46:08 PM
First and foremost, I am not trying to "one-up" the other poll.  I just want to see how the votes shake out with the list done a bit differently.  Feel free to vote/discuss in both threads.

No offense, but the songs you didn't list here got about 5 votes total in the other thread... I don't think the votes will "shake out" any differently. :p

But I voted for Octavarium.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 07, 2010, 12:55:24 PM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.
How is it not an epic?
One might also point out that it lacks explicitly defined "movements."  But then, "The Killing Hand" has those, so is it an epic?
No.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Marvellous G on June 07, 2010, 01:00:47 PM

It just doesn't have the same quality or feel as the others. The only part of the song that comes close is the great instrumental intro which devolves into the rest of the song, which is fairly average DT musically speaking. I wonder if it got the epic label because of the song comparisons Portnoy was throwing out before the release of Black Clouds.

This. The verses lack any magic or interesting musical ideas, as does the chorus. Actually, that means it's the entire middle section of the song basically. The intro, instrumental section and outro are all epic and wonderful and magical yadda yadda, but the actual meat of the song (arguably) is just not good enough. IMO.

My pick is Octavarium by a decent amount. It's not only the quintessential DT song, it's the quintessential prog song.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: contest_sanity on June 07, 2010, 01:02:25 PM
I still don't think that TCOT is an epic, but it's my favourite song of the ones in the poll.
How is it not an epic?
One might also point out that it lacks explicitly defined "movements."  But then, "The Killing Hand" has those, so is it an epic?
No.
I wasn't arguing that it was, by the way.  Just debating criteria.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 07, 2010, 01:27:41 PM
This must be a good day for epics.  I have the entire DT catalog on shuffle and already within just a handful of songs, TCOT, ACOS and 8VM came on.  It's a good day.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Adami on June 07, 2010, 01:32:00 PM
Ohhh look ACOS and 8VM are tied at 14 votes each.

OMG

14+14 = 28
8-2= 6
6-1 =5
6+2=8
2+1=3
3 core membrs of DT that are also in LTE
LTE has 3 letters
LTE has 3 jews
Jews rule the world.


Thank you.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: contest_sanity on June 07, 2010, 01:35:07 PM
Ohhh look ACOS and 8VM are tied at 14 votes each.

OMG

14+14 = 28
8-2= 6
6-1 =5
6+2=8
2+1+3
3 core membrs of DT that are also in LTE
LTE has 3 letters
LTE has 3 jews
Jews rule the world.


Thank you.
:rollin
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: contest_sanity on June 07, 2010, 01:40:14 PM
Ohhh look ACOS and 8VM are tied at 14 votes each.

OMG

14+14 = 28
8-2= 6
6-1 =5
6+2=8
2+1+3
3 core membrs of DT that are also in LTE
LTE has 3 letters
LTE has 3 jews
Jews rule the world.


Thank you.
Alternate proof:

14+14=28
28 days in February
February is cold
It's cold all Winter
(Winter is a Season -- ACOS nugget)
JLB was in Winter Rose
Jesus rose from the dead
Jesus was a jew

Jews rule the world!
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 07, 2010, 01:45:22 PM
I'm listening the LSFNY version of ACOS right now.  Fuckin' amazing!!   :metal

It's almost not even fair to all the other epics in the world that that version exists.  SO good!

True.  The Score version of 8VM is a close 2nd, but both are amazing live.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: hefdaddy42 on June 07, 2010, 01:50:13 PM
Ohhh look ACOS and 8VM are tied at 14 votes each.

OMG

14+14 = 28
8-2= 6
6-1 =5
6+2=8
2+1=3
3 core membrs of DT that are also in LTE
LTE has 3 letters
LTE has 3 jews
Jews rule the world.


Thank you.
Fantastic. :clap:
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: toro on June 07, 2010, 01:56:09 PM
Ohhh look ACOS and 8VM are tied at 14 votes each.

OMG

14+14 = 28
8-2= 6
6-1 =5
6+2=8
2+1=3
3 core membrs of DT that are also in LTE
LTE has 3 letters
LTE has 3 jews
Jews rule the world.


Thank you.

:clap::clap::clap:
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: zxlkho on June 07, 2010, 02:43:37 PM
For me, it's TCOT easy.


And bravo Adami. Well done.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Gadough on June 07, 2010, 04:38:59 PM
Favorite is still Octavarium.  :D
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: perfey on June 08, 2010, 12:06:37 AM
My new favourite is TCOT, right behind it is ACOS and 6D, third OV and fourth ITPOE.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: RandalGraves on June 08, 2010, 12:48:47 AM
Octavarium.  Love the WYWH intro, the melodies, Jordan's Jingle All the Way bit, the strings that come in at the end, the solo that follows . . . it's just a piece of music that I remain in awe of.

ACOS is a close second though.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: YtseBitsySpider on June 08, 2010, 05:30:16 AM
I, shockingly for an old school....been around since WDADU guy....voted for the Count.

It really is one of the best songs they've done, in a long long time. Now, I don't know if it's better - music structurally - than the rest on that list. Im too much of a musical layman to know. But, now...right now...I enjoy it better than all of the others in the list.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: j on June 08, 2010, 10:03:09 AM
ACOS.  All incredible songs though.

-J
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: ZBomber on June 08, 2010, 10:12:30 AM
I, shockingly for an old school....been around since WDADU guy....voted for the Count.

It really is one of the best songs they've done, in a long long time. Now, I don't know if it's better - music structurally - than the rest on that list. Im too much of a musical layman to know. But, now...right now...I enjoy it better than all of the others in the list.

Musically, its one of the best songs in their catalog. However, the lyrics/vocal deliveries keep it off my top 5 list.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Silver Tears on June 08, 2010, 10:28:15 AM
Six Degrees
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Plasmastrike on June 08, 2010, 01:27:08 PM
I just evened it out at 25 by voting for ACOS. :biggrin:
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: zxlkho on June 08, 2010, 01:45:52 PM
I, shockingly for an old school....been around since WDADU guy....voted for the Count.

It really is one of the best songs they've done, in a long long time. Now, I don't know if it's better - music structurally - than the rest on that list. Im too much of a musical layman to know. But, now...right now...I enjoy it better than all of the others in the list.

Musically, its one of the best songs in their catalog. However, the lyrics/vocal deliveries keep it off my top 5 list.
I agree that the lyrics/vocals aren't exactly stellar, but it's still in my top 5 easily. Maybe my top 3.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Implode on June 08, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
I've loved Octavarium for the most time, but recently I've really gotten into Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. I think it's the live version from Score that really changed my mind.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: zxlkho on June 08, 2010, 02:02:11 PM
Welcome to DTF  :D
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Dublagent66 on June 09, 2010, 03:18:24 PM
Sweet!  I knew ACOS would take the lead, now will it hold?  :corn
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: BRGM on June 09, 2010, 03:26:34 PM
Oh come on! ACOS is the worst one IMO :P
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: toro on June 09, 2010, 03:35:37 PM
Oh come on! ACOS is the worst one IMO :P
Confirmed for troll
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on June 09, 2010, 03:42:26 PM
for what may or may not make a song an "epic," when you get close to the edges, I think the lines become a bit blurry.
(https://captionsearch.com/pix/2rub7eoeem.jpg)
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: ScioPath on June 09, 2010, 03:55:05 PM
Oh come on! ACOS is the worst one IMO :P

 :omg:
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: BRGM on June 09, 2010, 03:58:44 PM
It's my opinion, not a big fan og Old DT, that's all, allthough I'm all of a sudden getting into the Killing hand :S the Tourbulence version
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: ScioPath on June 09, 2010, 04:02:34 PM
Okay then. But its among the best of DT IMO. And TKH = :metal
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Adami on June 09, 2010, 04:48:01 PM
Oh come on! ACOS is the worst one IMO :P

You are quickly on your way to replacing volk for having the worst opinions.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 09, 2010, 05:24:59 PM
for what may or may not make a song an "epic," when you get close to the edges, I think the lines become a bit blurry.
(https://captionsearch.com/pix/2rub7eoeem.jpg)


???
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on June 09, 2010, 05:30:32 PM
for what may or may not make a song an "epic," when you get close to the edges, I think the lines become a bit blurry.
(https://captionsearch.com/pix/2rub7eoeem.jpg)


???
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 10, 2010, 03:04:33 PM
I repeat:  ???
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Adami on June 10, 2010, 03:05:34 PM
What the hell is going on in here? Why is Fry here? Where's Bender?

WHERE'S BENDER?!?!
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Volk9 on June 10, 2010, 03:05:57 PM
ACOS
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on June 11, 2010, 06:53:08 AM
I repeat:  ???

Close To The Edge being the original traditional epic?
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: bosk1 on June 11, 2010, 10:41:37 AM
Okay...so...the fact that my post just happened to coincidentally contain words that are the title of some obscure song you like means something other than it just being a coincidence?
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Adami on June 11, 2010, 10:42:53 AM
Okay...so...the fact that my post just happened to coincidentally contain words that are the title of some obscure song you like means something other than it just being a coincidence?

It's clearly your favorite song.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Jamesman42 on June 11, 2010, 01:40:11 PM
Okay...so...the fact that my post just happened to coincidentally contain words that are the title of some obscure song you like means something other than it just being a coincidence?

Obscure? It's one of Yes's most famous songs.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: PlaysLikeMyung on June 11, 2010, 04:12:35 PM
Okay...so...the fact that my post just happened to coincidentally contain words that are the title of some obscure song you like means something other than it just being a coincidence?

I just thought it was funny considering Close to the Edge is one of the most well known prog epics in existence
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Plasmastrike on June 12, 2010, 01:16:06 AM
Okay...so...the fact that my post just happened to coincidentally contain words that are the title of some obscure song you like means something other than it just being a coincidence?

I just thought it was funny considering Close to the Edge is one of the most well known prog epics in existence

Exactly haha. Jeez yall are so uptight sometimes
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: ? on June 12, 2010, 02:08:45 AM
A Change of Seasons is my favorite but all the songs are great.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: MetalManiac666 on June 16, 2010, 08:57:27 PM
"Octavarium" is the song of the gods, therefore it gets my vote.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: Gadough on June 16, 2010, 11:29:40 PM
Interesting that Seasons and 8VM are almost perfectly tied. Even though I voted for 8VM, I'm somewhat surprised that Seasons isn't winning by a landslide.
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: BRGM on June 17, 2010, 12:10:01 PM
I voted ITPOE just cuz I thought like no one else would  ;D
Title: Re: Favorite "traditional" epic
Post by: abydos on June 17, 2010, 12:34:40 PM
A Change of Seasons, not even close.