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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: Perpetual Change on May 20, 2010, 04:04:53 PM
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The change in James' vocals from Images to Awake is pretty noticeable. On one end, you have soaring, epic, layered vocals that remind one of some combination between Queen and Journey. On the other, James is raspy and harsh, and recorded in such a way that makes it sound like he hasn't been layered at all.
Both styles are very good, and suit their respective albums very well.
But why did James change his style? Was the ultra-produced style on Images too far from James' natural voice and too layered to pull-off live? Was the band just trying to stay relevant as the era of metal was ending and grunge was entering the mainstream? Was the 80's vibe James on Images something that became unnecessary for the band to do, especially since James seemed to prefer singing another way better?
Couple obvious (or not so obvious) notes. Despite the appearance that James' vocals changed on Awake, he definitely sang that way live on the Images tour (see LiT, L@M, Dreambill, etc) and appears to have used his raspy voice with Winter Rose live, (going strictly by the few live recordings of Winter Rose that are available).
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I think they had a bit more freedom on Awake to be themselves. Although in the "progressive metal" vein, the label I think still had more of an '80s metal idea of what it should sound like, and I think that comes through. But listen to James' live vocals on the I&W tour, and he is frequently a lot screamier and raspier (closer to his style on Awake). Plus I think by the time of Awake being recorded, '80s metal has completley fallen out of fashion, so there is less incentive on the part of both the label and the band to make the album sound as slick and as layered as I&W.
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Yeah, I was gonna say something similar in the first post, but wanted to leave some room for debate/discussion. I agree, though. Since metal was out, it probably didn't make sense to have James sing in a way that wasn't in style, and wasn't most comfortable for him anyway.
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I certainly don't think the era of metal was ending; Metallica was as popular as ever in '93/'94. The music they wrote for Awake was heavier overall than that on I&W, which is why more of JLB's vocals are more like those heard in Metallica (rough) and Iron Maiden (operatic, yet still with enough balls to not sound wussy) than those heard in Rush and Yes at times, if that makes sense. But remember that for every "Caught in a Web" and "The Mirror" vocal, there is an "Innocence Faded" and "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" on that record.
I'll say more on this later when I have more time, as I gotta head out to a wake here in a bit.
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I do think that the style of song lends to James ruffing up his vocals. He just went for a little dirtier style to go with the music.
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I think that they wanted to sound more Prog Metal than Prog Rock on Awake, so they thought that having James singing with graspy vocals would sound more heavy and would fit better into the songs than his more melodic voice. He rocks in both albums anyway.
And now for something completely different: WON'T LET THEM FILL ME WITH FATALISTIC REMEDEEEEEHHHS!!!
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Like I said in the GMD thread, James was singing raspy/screaming on the Images tour, and metal certainly wasn't really ending. Bosks' reasoning about being more "raw" than 80s metal is some good reasoning too since that style of the genre was falling out of fashion.
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Y'know, I'd be interested to hear what some of the fans who were on board during Images thought about James' vocals on Awake. Or Awake in general. If any of you guys are reading this, please post your thoughts
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Y'know, I'd be interested to hear what some of the fans who were on board during Images thought about James' vocals on Awake. Or Awake in general. If any of you guys are reading this, please post your thoughts
Being as I'm a fan since only 2003 (and Awake is my fav), I'd be really interested in reading responses to this. I hope all of the old ( :P ) fans happen to come across this post.
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Y'know, I'd be interested to hear what some of the fans who were on board during Images thought about James' vocals on Awake. Or Awake in general. If any of you guys are reading this, please post your thoughts
I was a fan back in the I&W days, and to be honest, I didn't pick up Awake until years later. No real reason why. I had only heard a little tiny bit of it here and there. But once I did, I loved it immediately. James' vocals on the heavier songs in particular hooked me.
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I've been a fan since '93, so read my above post. :biggrin:
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DT already answered this on the Live in Tokyo DVD. They said that, when they made the video for, "Another Day," they just assumed it was going to be a big MTV/ radio hit because that power ballad thing had been popular in the years leading up to that video. However, in 1992, when DT was starting to get popular, they pretty much caught the tail end of the whole 80's power ballad thing and no one cared about that stuff anymore. Hence, Mike's comment, "BALLS AND CHUNK IS WHERE IT'S AT."
DT has always had their own voice and their own style, BUT they've ALSO been followers for whatever style was popular. They have always just been able to create really awesome music within the context of whatever the musical trend was at the time. So, I think that's why James changed - because that's what was popular and that's what the other guys wanted on the songs. He sounded AWFUL singing that stuff live, though.
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But remember that for every "Caught in a Web" and "The Mirror" vocal, there is an "Innocence Faded" and "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" on that record.
This is a key that should not be overlooked. And yes, I've followed the band since 1992.
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He sounded AWFUL singing that stuff live, though.
Singing gritty? With that I would have to disagree; singing gritty on some of the I&W stuff, yes.
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Images was the first DT record I listened to, and I loved James' vocals. Awake was the 2nd one I heard, and his vocals WERE a big shock to me. I remember thinking "what the heck happened to his beautiful voice?" I got used to it, but still prefer the I&W style. Also, I really hate the concept of a band molding it's style just to fit in with what is trendy. Trends come and go, but good music lasts forever.
(nobody will read this due to the gif above me ^)
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But remember that for every "Caught in a Web" and "The Mirror" vocal, there is an "Innocence Faded" and "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" on that record.
This is a key that should not be overlooked. And yes, I've followed the band since 1992.
I've been a fan since '93, so read my above post. :biggrin:
But, like, how did you guys feel about vocals that sounded so different?
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He sounded AWFUL singing that stuff live, though.
Singing gritty? With that I would have to disagree; singing gritty on some of the I&W stuff, yes.
Keep in mind, he also ruptured his vocal chords in December '94. And, his voice wasn't really the same for many years. So, as far as him sounding "awful" singing it live, there's a reason for it. Also, "awful" wasn't my word.
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He sounded AWFUL singing that stuff live, though.
Singing gritty? With that I would have to disagree; singing gritty on some of the I&W stuff, yes.
Keep in mind, he also ruptured his vocal chords in December '94. And, his voice wasn't really the same for many years. So, as far as him sounding "awful" singing it live, there's a reason for it. Also, "awful" wasn't my word.
This. Some of the performances of "The Mirror" from the Prog Nation '09 have to be the best performances of the song he's ever done.
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DT already answered this on the Live in Tokyo DVD. They said that, when they made the video for, "Another Day," they just assumed it was going to be a big MTV/ radio hit because that power ballad thing had been popular in the years leading up to that video. However, in 1992, when DT was starting to get popular, they pretty much caught the tail end of the whole 80's power ballad thing and no one cared about that stuff anymore. Hence, Mike's comment, "BALLS AND CHUNK IS WHERE IT'S AT."
DT has always had their own voice and their own style, BUT they've ALSO been followers for whatever style was popular. They have always just been able to create really awesome music within the context of whatever the musical trend was at the time. So, I think that's why James changed - because that's what was popular and that's what the other guys wanted on the songs. He sounded AWFUL singing that stuff live, though.
Well stated. I feel that the producers/decision-makers of "Another Day" video didn't do their research as to what Music Videos were trending to for that time.
If you want to hear Jame's at his best as far as voice post-I&W and Awake, I would have to recommend his latest solo effort: EoP.
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But remember that for every "Caught in a Web" and "The Mirror" vocal, there is an "Innocence Faded" and "Lifting Shadows Off a Dream" on that record.
This is a key that should not be overlooked. And yes, I've followed the band since 1992.
I've been a fan since '93, so read my above post. :biggrin:
But, like, how did you guys feel about vocals that sounded so different?
It's not as different as you are making it out.
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But, like, how did you guys feel about vocals that sounded so different?
I agree with hef that overall they didn't sound that different, but his gritty vocals in certain songs was definitely a bit of a shock to the system at first, but I got used to them pretty quickly. The increased heaviness on certain songs was tougher to handle for someone like me who really wasn't into metal that much at that point in time. I actually didn't care much for "The Mirror" and "Lie" until I saw them play them both live a month or so later; the ending of "The Mirror" absolutely slayed live. :coolio
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Yeah. I mean, he sang heavier on the heavy songs, which were heavier than anything on I&W. It wasn't a change, it was just something new in his arsenal. On the mellow songs, he isn't using a new style or anything.
I'm just not seeing a big deal here. And I certainly didn't then. After all, he didn't start growling or anything. James always sounds like James.
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This thread brings me back to my days on the Avenged Sevenfold fan sites...
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Yeah. I mean, he sang heavier on the heavy songs, which were heavier than anything on I&W. It wasn't a change, it was just something new in his arsenal. On the mellow songs, he isn't using a new style or anything.
I'm just not seeing a big deal here. And I certainly didn't then. After all, he didn't start growling or anything. James always sounds like James.
Yea, I can see how it was just something new in his arsenal. But he does use it a lot on Awake, I'd say at on at least half of his parts. Personally, it wasn't a big deal for me, since Awake was my first DT album, but I didn't really notice how great of a vocalist James was until I bought Images later on.
This thread brings me back to my days on the Avenged Sevenfold fan sites...
Ha. Why's that?
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Keep in mind, he also ruptured his vocal chords in December '94. And, his voice wasn't really the same for many years. So, as far as him sounding "awful" singing it live, there's a reason for it. Also, "awful" wasn't my word.
I know about the food poisoning incident. I was actually referring to the fact that he started getting more gritty before that happened. On Live in Tokyo, he was yelling and screaming all over the place, an indication (to me, at least) that he was attempting to give the songs more of an edge. What I like is that, when they do the Awake-era songs these days, James cleans them up and he sounds pretty good now. I'm also glad they ditched that horrendous verse in the middle of Voices.
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I was one of those fans that eagerly awaited the release of Awake. The only thing I noticed right away was the added raspy vocals to heavier passages. Awake definitely had more of a metal feel to it. Everything else was pretty much what I expected. High pitched style and slower, breathy stuff. I thought it was a good progression.
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Keep in mind, he also ruptured his vocal chords in December '94. And, his voice wasn't really the same for many years. So, as far as him sounding "awful" singing it live, there's a reason for it. Also, "awful" wasn't my word.
I know about the food poisoning incident. I was actually referring to the fact that he started getting more gritty before that happened. On Live in Tokyo, he was yelling and screaming all over the place, an indication (to me, at least) that he was attempting to give the songs more of an edge. What I like is that, when they do the Awake-era songs these days, James cleans them up and he sounds pretty good now. I'm also glad they ditched that horrendous verse in the middle of Voices.
He could have been tired. Sometimes it's easier to sing gritty than maintain a clean tone. There are also times in which powering out a note sounds "better" (although not better on the vocal folds) than letting it flow naturally.
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This thread brings me back to my days on the Avenged Sevenfold fan sites...
Ha. Why's that?
Lotta time was spent discussing M. Shadows' change in vocals.