Musicians or bands you find OVER-RATED ( not a hate thread )

[TAC]

Right. At the end of the day, aren't most bands appropriately rated?

[mike099]

Rush to me is so much better live compared to the studio albums, especially the drums.

[nattmorker]

My picks would be:

Steven Wilson, Porcupine Tree, Tool, Aerosmith and AC/DC.

I enjoy/like some of their songs, but in general, I don't see the appeal.

[wolfking]

The OP is a masterclass in fail

lol.

[WildRanger]

Under-rated means most people don't like it, but I do.

Many people use a term "underrated" for "under-recognized" - bands that never became big and their discography never got proper recognition or attention.
For example the bands as Blue Oyster Cult and Budgie are under-recognized and so many people who are their fans will claim they are underrated. You can't say they are underrated because most rock fans don't like them, because most rock fans never got into their stuff.

[kirksnosehair]

Most of these threads are more of a "bands I don't like" discussion, but I still like some of the bands I've mentioned, despite believing they're overrated by many. 


It's possible to like a band that is overrated. 

[tofee35]

John Bonham: He is not the best drummer or even best rock drummer of all time. He and Neil Peart are considered by many to be #'s 1 & 2. Although I don't consider drumming a competition, the fact that people think he's the greatest of all time is setting the bar really high.

Make no mistake, he is an amazing drummer...like unbelievable. I don't think he's close to the greatest of all time though. He's unique (and maybe revolutionary) in that he's playing with the technique & hands of a good fusion or jazz drummer and applying it to hard rock. He brought triplet fills to the masses, and in that, he was hugely influential. Fusion guys like Steve Gadd were also doing this, they just weren't in Led Zeppelin.

-Tof

[Stadler]

But ANY discussion that tries to equate subjective measures is pointless (to Dubleagent's post on the last page).   It's fun to discuss and shoot ideas around.  None of this means anything in the big picture; I'm not going to throw plates at dinner because someone doesn't appropriately - in my eyes - value Randy Rhoads. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm trying to stay away from "I like" or "I don't like"; I have supported here bands I can't stand ("Eagles") and trashed bands I like (well, I don't, but i have a couple RHCP records; Mother's Milk is excellent).   

Here's where I get controversial (though not on purpose):   I think there IS some merit to discussing what the awards shows/recognition outlets seem to reward.   I think there's something to that line of bands - REM, Green Day, RHCP, Radiohead, Rage Against The Machine, maybe even U2, though they've been around long enough to transcend it - that all seem to have more benefits of the doubt than not, and it's not an unfair proposition to suggest that it's more than just the music (NONE of those artists were voting for John Kasich, let alone Don Trump).   While it's not the be-all and end-all, it IS indicative of critical approval; all of those acts are in the RnRHoF (except for Rage, but give them time; I will bet WildRanger's car they are in in the next three years, if not this year) and yet we struggle with more blue collar, more egalitarian acts like Kiss, Dio (NOT in even though he was seminal in Black Sabbath) and even Rush, who were disdained for the longest time.  (Funny thing that Neil softened his staunch libertarian, objectivist positions around the same time that their chips were cashed on critical acceptance!). 

[deggs37]

No band is more overrated than Greta Van Fleet.

They are riding high on the nostalgia for another band altogether.

[Kotowboy]

U2 - just bland dull rock without energy or anything interesting about it. They have a few decent hits but how they are so big is beyond me.

Mainly cause they're so incredible live. Why their albums are so bland sounding when they are amazing live is a mystery.

They've never made an album that captures how good they are live.


Oh and John Bonham > > > > > > > Keith Moon. The main reason drummers get a bad rep. Moon used to go on tour with 20 complete kits and come off tour

with nothing that wasn't broken. Pr*ck.

[pg1067]

Under-rated means most people don't like it, but I do.

Many people use a term "underrated" for "under-recognized" - bands that never became big and their discography never got proper recognition or attention.
For example the bands as Blue Oyster Cult and Budgie are under-recognized and so many people who are their fans will claim they are underrated. You can't say they are underrated because most rock fans don't like them, because most rock fans never got into their stuff.

What you say is probably true of Budgie, but it certainly isn't for BOC.  BOC got tons of airplay in the 70s and the first half of the 80s.  I don't really have any idea what they've been doing for the last 30 years, so I don't imagine there are too many new fans, but in their heyday, if people didn't like them, it's NOT because they were not exposed.

No band is more overrated than Greta Van Fleet.

They are riding high on the nostalgia for another band altogether.

If it were 2-3 years ago, I'd agree, but I haven't heard their name in a good year and a half.  I think it's reasonable to say that whatever buzz they generated has pretty much died out.


Also, again, when it comes to art, the overrated/underrated dichotomy is this:  Does an artist's popularity exceed my own subjective enjoyment of or reverence for that artist?  If so, then the artist is overrated.  Does my own subjective enjoyment of or reverence for an artist exceed the artist's popularity?  If so, then the artist is underrated.  "I like someone that few others like" and "I don't like someone super popular" are part of it, but there's more to it than that.

[Zantera]

I think with the Cliff Burton thing, it's almost 50/50 in terms of what he actually brought to the band and what happened with the band after he died. Yeah a lot of people still like Justice (though a lot of people don't because of the mix etc) and there's still plenty of affection for Black Album and even some for Load/Reload. But Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are considered 2 behemoths of albums and I don't think it really matters how much of that can be credited to Cliff. The fact is he died and a lot of fans probably look at it in a "I wonder what would have happened?" scenario. Maybe with Cliff still there they still would have gone down the route towards commercial success with Black Album and the Alternica phase.

So yeah I think with someone like Cliff, half the discussion is his actual talent and the other half is with that classic lineup, maybe Metallica would have put out more quality. I don't think things would have played out THAT much differently honestly. Justice would have been different for sure but James and Lars have really been the leading guys of the band and I feel like the turn towards Black Album, Load/Reload and Garage Days would have happened either way.

[hefdaddy42]

I kind of just assume at this point that music critics were the kids in high school that got beat up by someone wearing a jean vest with an Iron Maiden or Kiss patch on the back, and they've never learned to let go. 

I know you are saying this in humor, but in my experience, the kids in high school that wore jean vests with Iron Maiden or KISS patches on the backs were generally dicks and pieces of shit who thought beating up future music critics was a good time.  So I will tend to side with the critics.

[Stadler]

I think with the Cliff Burton thing, it's almost 50/50 in terms of what he actually brought to the band and what happened with the band after he died. Yeah a lot of people still like Justice (though a lot of people don't because of the mix etc) and there's still plenty of affection for Black Album and even some for Load/Reload. But Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are considered 2 behemoths of albums and I don't think it really matters how much of that can be credited to Cliff. The fact is he died and a lot of fans probably look at it in a "I wonder what would have happened?" scenario. Maybe with Cliff still there they still would have gone down the route towards commercial success with Black Album and the Alternica phase.

So yeah I think with someone like Cliff, half the discussion is his actual talent and the other half is with that classic lineup, maybe Metallica would have put out more quality. I don't think things would have played out THAT much differently honestly. Justice would have been different for sure but James and Lars have really been the leading guys of the band and I feel like the turn towards Black Album, Load/Reload and Garage Days would have happened either way.

Well, with the proviso that a) I'm not the hugest fan of Metallica generally, and b) I don't get all of the love for MoP or RtL, I think you're right, and a lot of that anticipation of a different outcome is wishful thinking, frankly.   I think they were going there one way or the other, and while I have no idea what Cliff would or would not have done, I tend to think he'd have gone alone for the ride.

[Kotowboy]

And "fans" always go " Cliff would never have sold out like on the black album and LOAD!!!! "

When Metallica - y'know - the guys that actually KNEW HIM - say he was the one with the very eclectic music taste and so - yes - he would have absolutely dug The Black album and Load

and S&M as well. The idea that - Cliff was the most metal guy that ever lived and if he hadn't died - they'd be making Master of Puppets part 9 today is laughable.

[MirrorMask]

That's the advantage of death for musicians, it saves you from whatever future failure you might had.

Had Elvis died at 27, nobody could have imagined he would become fat and drugged.

Kurt Cobain did die at 27, where would he be now? could Nirvana become even bigger and write even more well received albums? would they split up and reunite out of nostalgia like everyone does? if they did split, could have Kurt had a second carrer like Dave Grohl with Foo Fighters? would he be in good shape like Dave or he would be fat and bald?

[pg1067]

Kurt Cobain did die at 27, where would he be now? could Nirvana become even bigger and write even more well received albums? would they split up and reunite out of nostalgia like everyone does? if they did split, could have Kurt had a second carrer like Dave Grohl with Foo Fighters? would he be in good shape like Dave or he would be fat and bald?

If this photo (which I found by googling "what would kurt cobain look like today") is an indication, Cobain would've joined Nickelback.

[Stadler]

That's the advantage of death for musicians, it saves you from whatever future failure you might had.

Had Elvis died at 27, nobody could have imagined he would become fat and drugged.

Kurt Cobain did die at 27, where would he be now? could Nirvana become even bigger and write even more well received albums? would they split up and reunite out of nostalgia like everyone does? if they did split, could have Kurt had a second carrer like Dave Grohl with Foo Fighters? would he be in good shape like Dave or he would be fat and bald?

At least with Elvis, his voice didn't explode with his waistline (I actually prefer the 70's Elvis, musically). 

And that's the problem with Cobain: he's Randy Rhoads, basically.   He's got one great* album under his belt, and that's really it.  If you can put Nirvana in the RnRHoF, then why not Randy Rhoads?  I'm not even sure I credit them with the mantle of starting "grunge".   All of Nirvana was happening before and independent of them; that whole SubPop scene was really the start of it:  Green River/Soundgarden/Mother Love Bone/Mudhoney.   They just weren't interested in playing the game; Kurt made a big show of not wanting the attention and notoriety, but he didn't do a whole lot to walk away from it either (No, I don't consider a drug overdose to be 'walking away from it'). 


* I don't think so, but I can understand why people do.

[Kotowboy]

Nevermind is a great album - but Bleach and In Utero wouldn't have made Nirvana huge on their own. They just got lucky.

Also I am certain I read / heard from Butch Vig or someone that Nirvana wouldn't have lasted very long anyway

since - Kurt had zero vocal technique - he'd literally be able to do 3 takes of a song in the studio and he was done for the day.

[DoctorAction]

Metallica

They were amazing up to MoP,  great on AJFA and Load and the cover tunes but otherwise lacking any chemistry or magic. They've managed three good songs (that still feel like they needed tweaking and mixing well) on Hardwired that I enjoy - but are far from essential. Three good tracks in over twenty years. But still they are rated sooooo highly. Hang it up already.

[Stadler]

Metallica

They were amazing up to MoP,  great on AJFA and Load and the cover tunes but otherwise lacking any chemistry or magic. They've managed three good songs (that still feel like they needed tweaking and mixing well) on Hardwired that I enjoy - but are far from essential. Three good tracks in over twenty years. But still they are rated sooooo highly. Hang it up already.

Not really quoting you, but just referencing Metallica... I guess I have to see them live.  I'm a HUGE Hetfield fan (his solo album is top five, maybe top three on my musical wish list), but there's a lot about Metallica I don't get.    For me - FOR ME - they are more overrated up to Load than they are after.   I just don't see the mythical appeal of those first albums (meaning, they don't suck, but they don't impact me as "transcendent").

[Dublagent66]

After the Black album, I pretty much gave up on Metallica.  Everything after was meh.

[DoctorAction]

I'd totally go for a Hetfield solo album. He's great and the MVP of that band by miles. I imagine a solo record would be more in the Load vein than any other Tallica release, which would suit me.

[KevShmev]

Death Magnetic had a few keepers, but Hardwired... sounded like a band trying to recapture the magic and failing miserably.  With it being their only album in the decade, you would have thought Metallica would have been able to come up with some better stuff, but given their limited output in the last 20+ years, it's obvious that they are creatively done.

[WildRanger]

Metallica

They were amazing up to MoP,  great on AJFA and Load and the cover tunes but otherwise lacking any chemistry or magic. They've managed three good songs (that still feel like they needed tweaking and mixing well) on Hardwired that I enjoy - but are far from essential. Three good tracks in over twenty years. But still they are rated sooooo highly. Hang it up already.

Not really quoting you, but just referencing Metallica... I guess I have to see them live.  I'm a HUGE Hetfield fan (his solo album is top five, maybe top three on my musical wish list), but there's a lot about Metallica I don't get.    For me - FOR ME - they are more overrated up to Load than they are after.   I just don't see the mythical appeal of those first albums (meaning, they don't suck, but they don't impact me as "transcendent").

They are undeniably transcendent because a big number of people who are not thrash metal fans listen(ed) to those albums and like(d) them. Those albums transcended the genre of thrash metal and they are nearly universally acclaimed (by fans and critics) for a reason. And I'm not a big Metallica guy, none of their albums would crack my personal top 10 metal albums.

You should be less subjective and a bit more objective so as not to question the big significance of those 80's Metallica albums in the world of metal.

[Stadler]

Metallica

They were amazing up to MoP,  great on AJFA and Load and the cover tunes but otherwise lacking any chemistry or magic. They've managed three good songs (that still feel like they needed tweaking and mixing well) on Hardwired that I enjoy - but are far from essential. Three good tracks in over twenty years. But still they are rated sooooo highly. Hang it up already.

Not really quoting you, but just referencing Metallica... I guess I have to see them live.  I'm a HUGE Hetfield fan (his solo album is top five, maybe top three on my musical wish list), but there's a lot about Metallica I don't get.    For me - FOR ME - they are more overrated up to Load than they are after.   I just don't see the mythical appeal of those first albums (meaning, they don't suck, but they don't impact me as "transcendent").

They are undeniably transcendent because a big number of people who are not thrash metal fans listen(ed) to those albums and like(d) them. Those albums transcended the genre of thrash metal and they are nearly universally acclaimed (by fans and critics) for a reason. And I'm not a big Metallica guy, none of their albums would crack my personal top 10 metal albums.

You should be less subjective and a bit more objective so as not to question the big significance of those 80's Metallica albums in the world of metal.

Look, I'm one of the more tolerant - "objective" - people here, so there's that.  But I don't DENY the influence, it just hasn't touched ME.  That's why I said "for me" twice, including once in all caps.   

[King Postwhore]

Metallica has never clicked for me as well.  Hell, I even saw them on the MOP tour.  I like some songs, just not enough to dive into the deep end of the pool with them.

[Crow]

beethoven - how can he be one of the greatest composers of all time if he DIED lol

[HOF]

beethoven - how can he be one of the greatest composers of all time if he DIED lol

Agreed. Dude was obviously deaf too SMH.

[Herrick]

I think with the Cliff Burton thing, it's almost 50/50 in terms of what he actually brought to the band and what happened with the band after he died. Yeah a lot of people still like Justice (though a lot of people don't because of the mix etc) and there's still plenty of affection for Black Album and even some for Load/Reload. But Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are considered 2 behemoths of albums and I don't think it really matters how much of that can be credited to Cliff. The fact is he died and a lot of fans probably look at it in a "I wonder what would have happened?" scenario. Maybe with Cliff still there they still would have gone down the route towards commercial success with Black Album and the Alternica phase.

So yeah I think with someone like Cliff, half the discussion is his actual talent and the other half is with that classic lineup, maybe Metallica would have put out more quality. I don't think things would have played out THAT much differently honestly. Justice would have been different for sure but James and Lars have really been the leading guys of the band and I feel like the turn towards Black Album, Load/Reload and Garage Days would have happened either way.

Agreed 100%. People have this fantasy that Burton would've kept the band "Metal".

Now...what bands or solo acts does Herrick consider overrated. I don't really like using that term. I'd rather say I'm just not into them or I don't get the appeal.

The Rolling Stones - Never got into them. The radio tracks I've heard over the years were all right but they never made me want to buy one of their albums.

Bob Dylan - Perhaps if I were more into lyrics, I'd appreciate him more. It's not even his voice that annoys me. His music simply does nothing for me.

Tom Petty - This kind of stuff falls into what I call "Rock that does not Rock". Kind of like The Rolling Stones, the super group Petty was in...and Pink Floyd. But I do like Pink Floyd. Note: I do not actively dislike Tom Petty's music.

Sting's solo stuff - Admittedly, I have not even listened to much of this. But the very little I've heard was dreary.

The Beatles - I don't dislike this band & oddly enough, I've enjoyed every song I've heard from them...but not enough to sit down and listen to one of their albums. I know they have massively influenced the music world but I do not know exactly what it is about their music that was so influential. And it's not a case of "you have to have been there to get it" because tons of youngsters get into The Beatles all the time it seems.

Peter Gabriel & Phil Collins' solo stuff.

U2.

[emtee]

Tastes, right?

Hardwired is my favorite Metallica album. Easily. Killer riffs and quality production. The early albums all sounded like tinty, trebly amateur recordings to me.

[WildRanger]

Metallica

They were amazing up to MoP,  great on AJFA and Load and the cover tunes but otherwise lacking any chemistry or magic. They've managed three good songs (that still feel like they needed tweaking and mixing well) on Hardwired that I enjoy - but are far from essential. Three good tracks in over twenty years. But still they are rated sooooo highly. Hang it up already.

Not really quoting you, but just referencing Metallica... I guess I have to see them live.  I'm a HUGE Hetfield fan (his solo album is top five, maybe top three on my musical wish list), but there's a lot about Metallica I don't get.    For me - FOR ME - they are more overrated up to Load than they are after.   I just don't see the mythical appeal of those first albums (meaning, they don't suck, but they don't impact me as "transcendent").

They are undeniably transcendent because a big number of people who are not thrash metal fans listen(ed) to those albums and like(d) them. Those albums transcended the genre of thrash metal and they are nearly universally acclaimed (by fans and critics) for a reason. And I'm not a big Metallica guy, none of their albums would crack my personal top 10 metal albums.

You should be less subjective and a bit more objective so as not to question the big significance of those 80's Metallica albums in the world of metal.

Look, I'm one of the more tolerant - "objective" - people here, so there's that.  But I don't DENY the influence, it just hasn't touched ME.  That's why I said "for me" twice, including once in all caps.

OK.

[WildRanger]

Tastes, right?

Hardwired is my favorite Metallica album. Easily. Killer riffs and quality production. The early albums all sounded like tinty, trebly amateur recordings to me.

That's very controversial.

[WildRanger]

Tom Petty - This kind of stuff falls into what I call "Rock that does not Rock". Kind of like The Rolling Stones, the super group Petty was in...and Pink Floyd. But I do like Pink Floyd. Note: I do not actively dislike Tom Petty's music.

Tom Petty was a guy who walked the line between POP and ROCK with strong American folk influence. Many of his hit songs sound soft or "sweet"(e.g. American Girl, I Want Back Down, Learning to Fly, etc). But he is a legendary American artist.

[Kotowboy]

I agree. the production of Kill - Justice are not great.. The Black Album onwards sound fantastic. And Yes. Hardwired is their best album since the self titled.

I don't think Metallica should retire. I LOVED Reload. St Anger has its moments. Death Magnetic was good songwise but the production let it down.

I think a band should retire when it's clear they're treading water, or have put out three dreadful albums in a row.

St Anger was pretty bad, sure but it had to be made or we'd never have gotten another album.

DM was a step in the right direction and HTSD was them at their best again. :-)

( Also Bob Rock didn't "ruin" Metallica - but that's for another thread )