Ghosts of drummers past

[Orbert]

Warning: This is another oblique and only marginally interesting post because Orbert is bored at work again.


I visit this website called Not Always Right, where people who work in retail send in stories of customers who are stupid, obnoxious, or whatever.  It's a sendup of the expression "the customer is always right" which everyone knows is wrong, especially anyone who's worked in retail.  They've expanded to several sites now, including Not Always Working, which is the opposite.  Customers send in stories of idiotic workers.

Not Always Working has started adding little icons to the stories, indicating the subject (which is dumb because I read them all anyway).  This is the one for Tech Support:

Whenever I see it, it reminds me of Mike Portnoy.  I think it's the beard.


They've also started adding memes (none of which are very funny).  I saw this one today:



Are things really that bad for Mike, that he's picking up some scratch on the side modelling for Tech Support?

[hefdaddy42]

Dear Lord

As an aside, I work with the General Public, and I can assure that "The customer is always right" is PR poppycock bullshit for the sales department.  In point of fact, the customer is very rarely right.

[Kotowboy]

In point of fact, the customer is very rarely right.

no.



Also inb4 Mike Portnoy stars in direct to Netflix US remake of Blackadder.

[hefdaddy42]

In point of fact, the customer is very rarely right.

no.

So, you think the customer is usually right?  Or always right?

[cramx3]

My buddy owns a car wash and I constantly hear about customers being wrong, aka trying to pull a scam, or accusing the wash of something, or just saying they want thier money back for whatever reason... and I always respond to his complaint with "the customer is always right" mostly to piss him off.  But there is a little bit of "good business" in it in that it's not about being right, but siding with the customer to keep them happy and therefore keep supporting your business.

[Calvin6s]

Maybe replace "The Customer is Always Right" with "The Customer Gets a Mulligan."

Better?

[El Barto]

The customer is always right is a shitty maxim. They're rarely right and businesses should value their employees more. At the same time I understand why you often have to abide by that nonsense. It's solely a function of how big your customer base is. Herb Kelleher can tell customers to fuck off because he knows that new customers will always find him and lost customers will return. People choose his business because of price and service. There are plenty of smaller businesses where sucking up to dipshit customers is the difference to life and death. The margins are too thin to separate yourself from the competition and the competition is at every corner. Loyalty matters in that scenario, even if the loyalty does derive from getting walked on.

[Calvin6s]

The customer is always right is a shitty maxim. They're rarely right and businesses should value their employees more.

When you get down to it, putting value on the source of income is putting value on the employees.

[cramx3]

The customer is always right is a shitty maxim. They're rarely right and businesses should value their employees more.

When you get down to it, putting value on the source of income is putting value on the employees.

Well you can also do both, give in to the customer but let the employee know why you did so they don't feel like they made a mistake.

When i worked at Boston Market in high school we ALWAYS gave in to the customer.  My manager told me in one instance when I knew I was right and customer was wrong that it didn't matter and there was nothing wrong with me, but we gave in to make the customer happy not to make me feel bad.

[Stadler]

The customer is always right is a shitty maxim. They're rarely right and businesses should value their employees more.

When you get down to it, putting value on the source of income is putting value on the employees.

Well you can also do both, give in to the customer but let the employee know why you did so they don't feel like they made a mistake.

When i worked at Boston Market in high school we ALWAYS gave in to the customer.  My manager told me in one instance when I knew I was right and customer was wrong that it didn't matter and there was nothing wrong with me, but we gave in to make the customer happy not to make me feel bad.

I think you nailed it; the problem arises when the manager (wrongly, in my view) MAKES it a zero sum game between the two.  I could be wrong, but I've always taken Cram's approach; this isn't a contest, and it's not a scored event where every "right" and "wrong" gets points (or doesn't).  If that drink I made you doesn't taste like a Manhattan, well, let me make you a Manhattan that tastes like your version of a Manhattan.  I know there's risk of you going off and telling everyone "that guy doesn't know how to make a Manhattan!" and in this day and age of Yelp! and whatnot that's a danger, but I think the world will survive. 

I think where I draw the line is where the scamming comes in.  if you come in every month, order 20 buffalo wings, and complain after 12 that "they don't taste right", well, you may be the customer, you may be right, but we're not going to opt to comp your food this evening.  Sorry. 

[Calvin6s]

Well you can also do both, give in to the customer but let the employee know why you did so they don't feel like they made a mistake.

Absolutely.  Do it all the time.  If we aren't talking about anything business shattering but what amounts to a blip on the radar, it is best to go with the idea that a fight with the customer is counterproductive.  In that case, the manager or employer makes the effort to quickly take the employee out of the equation.  I will frequently tell the customer "you're right.  We should have had that covered" or whatever is the applicable response.

If it is clear that the customer was just being a jerk, you let the employee know both that you aren't scolding them / they were techincally right, but they also don't need to fight solely on principle.

More often than not, which side is right is not obvious.  At that point you do the same with the customer, but you let the employee know they aren't in trouble.  That doesn't mean if the same type of problem keeps happening that you ignore the pattern.

The idea that the manager or employer is enjoying seeing the employee squirm is faulty.  The more things are running smoothly, the easier it is for a manager.  I always hear this advice being given to a newly minted manager/supervisor:  "If everything always ran perfectly, there would be no need for your position."

And you will eventually have an employee that does some stupid shit where it is clear as day that they did the stupid shit.  It is unavoidable.  It is a horrible feeling that you will have to fix it.  And that means you will probably be taking money out of your pocket on both ends.  The customer gets reimbursed and the bad employee still gets paid for their time being a jackass.  All you can control is if you want to keep employing them.

[Calvin6s]

I think where I draw the line is where the scamming comes in.  if you come in every month, order 20 buffalo wings, and complain after 12 that "they don't taste right", well, you may be the customer, you may be right, but we're not going to opt to comp your food this evening.  Sorry.

And it is the same deal as the employee.  Maybe the first time it is unclear if it is a legitimate complaint or a scam.  But if the same employee constantly gets complaints for shorting a customer (or similar) and it isn't in line with other employee complaints, then you will have to decide this might be a bad employee.

But in the end, a truly bad employee and truly bad customer is the exception, not the rule.

There are people that do the scam thing.  And being a fellow customer with them, I have been one to tell them they are doing the wrong thing.  Sometimes I've even taken time to tell the manager something like "I saw what went down and the employee wasn't at fault".  And if it is food related, I've both left a table of a scamming party to order on my own not to be a part of their BS or literally exited the passenger seat of a car in a drive thru so I could order on my own because the jerk says something like "I said I wanted a burrito.  Open up your f*ckin' ears."  Not only do I not want to be associated with that crap, but I want to limit the possibility of snot being in my food."

[TAC]

Customers say and do dumb things. They can't read. Letters that is. Numbers they seem to do just fine.


There have been many times where I had to "take care" of a customer even though they were dumbasses and my associate was in the right. But I always followed it up with a conversation with my clerk. Ultimately it is important that they do see both sides.

And yes, people will always try and scam you. But you cannot assume that everyone is out to do it. You might as well treat everyone as if you'd like to be treated. Better to not harass your regular customers because you're on guard for a scammist.

I also believe that as a manager, you cannot be afraid of letting the customer think they got the best of the deal. It's OK. They will be back.

But in the end, a truly bad employee and truly bad customer is the exception, not the rule.

Yes, this is true.

[Calvin6s]

As for the original intent of this thread, it is perfectly normal to blow off steam about the workplace.  The problem comes when the joking starts to be taken too literally.  When it must be that everybody is stupid.

Mileage varies, but probably after a few years of being in the workplace, you will inevitable look back at things that seemed bigger at the time than they actually were.  That "lazy" co-worker that drove you crazy.  That "idiot" boss.  Or that "jerk ass" customer.  Blowing off steam is healthy.  Plotting the demise of that arch nemesis usually is not.

[Calvin6s]

As far as things employees might say to one another, some floating around from my younger years:

Calling the supervisor the stupidvisor

Referring to somebody showing up in a bad mood as "somebody needs a diaper change."

Don't want to get too specific because somebody I know might put 2 and 2 together and say "hey, I know that guy".  I will change the name of a supervisor just a bit, without losing the joke.  We had a supervisor named "Chuck Norris" (close, but obviously not the actual name).  Because we worked in a completely different state than corporate, it was prone to the "fuck corporate" mentality.  Chuck Norris had that mentality.  Because their supervisor was not in state, Chuck took advantage and spent most of their time in the local bar.  When something went wrong and got back to corporate, Chuck would just say "that employee is crap".  And employee after employee was fired or reprimanded due to Chuck's inability to take responsibility because they didn't know what was going on.  How could they from a bar?

I came up with Chuck Norris' nickname.  Chuck Ignorris (Ignore us for those that can't detect the obvious).  It got so bad that we'd refer to him as Ignorris to his face (or on the phone because we rarely saw his face).

This is probably a tiny sliver of the "wit" on the employee floor.  The majority of it was just having a laugh.

[Stadler]

Customers say and do dumb things. They can't read. Letters that is. Numbers they seem to do just fine.

HAHAHA, I love that; that is such great insight (the "numbers"/"letters" thing).