What are your thoughts on DT12?

[BlobVanDam]

I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan.  He does what he needs to do, no more.

It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.

[Implode]

2:15 in TEI reminds me of 3:00 in OTBOA and I think the solos are slightly similar. However, OTBOA is a much better song IMO

After I first heard TEI, when I'd try to bring melodies to my head, I would keep switching to OTBOA. I blame the little part right after the chorus. Mainly I think that's because they were in the same key.

[Zydar]

How many of you got a signed copy? I got a signed deluxe edition

[jayvee3]

I agree with this... However, I not only dislike this album, I can't even stand to listen to the songs! Really weird for me, I loved (and I mean nonstop love too) everything up to Systematic Chaos. Could barely listen to BCSL, ADToE, and now this. I find this recent album dry, boring, uneventful, and lacks any DT that I loved in previous albums. It doesn't have that adventurous, or emotional journeys that previous albums have taken me on. It really sounds like just any other prog band out there, and I'm really upset to say that. This album is really weak.

But Illumination Theory is the only exception... That is the only song on the album that I can tolerate. I loved Octivarium, so amazing and epic, and this reminds me of it. Not quite as good, but at least there is one song. :/

I was really looking forward to this after being annoyed with ADToE which I forgot after the first listen. Hasn't even come out of the CD case since then, and now they've really lost me. But at least I have the previous works. I am sure this one will go back in the case and be forgotten with BCSL too. I want to cry and explode!

While you are welcome to your opinion of any album, it must be said, if you are putting the CDs back in the case after first listen, it could be premature to say how much you don't like the albums. Some pretty complex music, so a great deal of DT 's music requires a fair bit of listening to familiarise yourself with...

[kirksnosehair]

The album is definitely of the "grower" variety.  Last few DT albums didn't have quite as strong a replay value as this one seems to have. 

[dream416]

How many of you got a signed copy? I got a signed deluxe edition

Hoping to get mine in the mail today or Monday.   

[gspdt]

literally first post in years (please forgive me!) but here are my thoughts on the new album:
I LOVE The Looking Glass and Behind the Veil. Its nice to hear them do something that harks back to early DT like the intro to TLG, and I love the chorus to BTV. I don't care much for the heavy bits of the closer, but on the whole a strong album. Shame the production is so odd, can't put my finger on what it is I dislike but there's something off about it...

I thought the same until I listened to the whole album on my B&W Zeppelin and boy did it sound different and much better. It is also great to be able to hear Mr Myung on this one!!

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I don't really see how JR is lacking in this album, unless people mean the mix in certain parts. I suppose if you liked how many solos he took on previous albums, then this album sounds like he's less present. But I'd say he's just as present, just in different form. He still has solos--EM, IT, AFTR, for example-- it's just that they're cut down in frequency and scale. A lot of his work on this album is adding texture and atmosphere. He has many great moments, and just as many contributions as in previous albums. In fact, didn't JP basically say that JR came up with that string section the orchestra played in IT?

The only thing that makes him feel missing sometimes is the mix. I'm actually listening to TEI right now; during the verses I have to struggle to hear him. Other than that he has a shit load of moments in which he is a driving force. Actually, I think this cinematic type of album would have been impossible without him. He is here just as much as before, just in different form.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, JR is all over the album.  And he sounds great (when you can hear him )

[The Stray Seed]

Actually, I think this cinematic type of album would have been impossible without him.

Agreed!!! 

[volwrath]

I suppose I have no credibility as I have had to change my vote twice from Meh to Very Good to Instant Classic in the span of a few days.  This album (to me) has no filler, unlike ADToE or BC&SL,  SC or even ToT.  Every song is solid.  Who knows in a week, it may be back to a Meh though.

[gspdt]

Yeah, JR is all over the album.  he sounds great (when you can hear him )

Totally agree!  I love that JR is putting top notch soundscapes and amazing arrangements all over this record! and its also nice to hear less of that ragtime circus stuff.

[ariich]

Yeah, JR is all over the album.  And he sounds great (when you can hear him )

Agreed, I love his contributions which are everywhere, and one of the reasons I prefer the HD tracks is that he can be heard more easily.

[Outcrier]

I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan.  He does what he needs to do, no more.

It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.

Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.

[predator13]

It is amazing how drastically my views changed from Listen #1 to Listen #2.  I got a complete role reversal from ADTOE: with ADTOE, the first listen just floored me, I was amazed.  But aside from BAL, I never really went back.  It didn't really grow, if anything I became less interested. 

With this album, I was underwhelmed on the first listen and just felt like I was going through the motions.  But with the second listen, the personalities of each song come through.  It really feels like a grower.

[JiM-Xtreme]

Just finished my first listen. My initial reaction? I'm not sure I get it.

When I listen to a DT album, I expect to go a journey. I was expecting this album to be the definitive DT experience, what with it being self-titled, the band themselves hyping it up so much and all the positive comments I've been observing here.

I don't really feel like this album took me on a journey. It just felt like... a bunch of songs.

Even the "epic" Illumination Theory was disappointing to me. It felt disjointed and underwhelming.

Weirdly, the "Easter Egg" at the end of the album was one of the bits I enjoyed the most. It's almost like I felt that that's more of what the album needed as a whole... more "chill" moments to balance out the intensity.

I don't know... it just seems to me that DT may be trying too hard nowadays. Like ever since MP left, they've had something to prove. This album felt too much like a continuation of what they were trying to do on ADToE.

When I first discovered this band, I immediately fell in love with their sound and every thing they wrote and produced just intrigued and drew me in. On this album and ADToE, it just felt like they were trying to impress me by being overly technical, complex and powerful, to convince me that they've still "got it".

Obviously, I don't know what their true intentions or motivations are when it comes to creating music. But the one thing that I've always loved about this band is their musical integrity, the pure and unrelenting desire to make the music that they want to make, paying no need to popularity or external pressure. I very much hope that deep down, this is still the case - as opposed to making music for the sake of satisfying and maintaining their fan base.

I voted "meh" because that pretty much sums up how I feel after my first listen. There were definitely moments that made me smile and I'm sure like any other album, it will time to take some time to fully digest and I'll probably appreciate it more then.

I was just curious to see if anyone else feels this way.

[wolfking]

I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan.  He does what he needs to do, no more.

It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.

Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.

Exactly.

[LCArenas]

I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan.  He does what he needs to do, no more.

It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.

Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.

I Sadly agree. Blind Faith is in my opinion one of the more Jordan-ful DT songs out there and it's not full of blatant wankery... And it's my favorite song of the First disc of SDoIT.

[BlobVanDam]

I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan.  He does what he needs to do, no more.

It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.

Yeah, but nowadays, more Jordan means more wankery saddly.

No it doesn't. There are plenty of examples of JR adding to songs without it being at all wanky.

[Outcrier]

AROP and TSF solo agree with you 



I'm talking more about SC through BL&SC...

[BlobVanDam]

AROP and TSF solo agree with you 
But i'm talking more about SC through BL&SC.

Again, plenty of examples. Solos don't account for that much of a song really, and aside from that he adds so much to the atmosphere of the music that apparently goes ignored by some people.

it also doesn't help that he often gets mixed so low. There's so much going on throughout BCASL that's hard to appreciate without the stems. 

[Outcrier]

Like in The Great Debate.

[ariich]

AROP and TSF solo agree with you 
But i'm talking more about SC through BL&SC.

Again, plenty of examples. Solos don't account for that much of a song really, and aside from that he adds so much to the atmosphere of the music that apparently goes ignored by some people.

it also doesn't help that he often gets mixed so low. There's so much going on throughout BCASL that's hard to appreciate without the stems. 

Yeah BCSL and DT12 seem to be the worst offenders in terms of JR being mixed a little on the low side. I don't think it's too bad though.

[BlobVanDam]

AROP and TSF solo agree with you 
But i'm talking more about SC through BL&SC.

Again, plenty of examples. Solos don't account for that much of a song really, and aside from that he adds so much to the atmosphere of the music that apparently goes ignored by some people.

it also doesn't help that he often gets mixed so low. There's so much going on throughout BCASL that's hard to appreciate without the stems. 

Yeah BCSL and DT12 seem to be the worst offenders in terms of JR being mixed a little on the low side. I don't think it's too bad though.

The HDTracks version of DT12 is an improvement in that regard. Probably the case for the other HDTracks versions of the DT albums for the same reason.

It wouldn't be so bad on BCASL if not for the fact I know what JR is playing from the stems. So many great layered parts that are mixed too low to appreciate fully.

ToT is also bad in spots for the keyboard mix, but the Budokan versions have a much more generous keyboard mix.

[ariich]

Agreed about the HD tracks, and I'm considering getting the other 3 albums as well now.

[Öxölklöfför]

I know this sounds bad, but one of the things that makes DT12 so strong is the lack of Jordan.  He does what he needs to do, no more.

It sounds beyond bad.
For me what makes recent albums weaker is the relative lack of Jordan. It's no coincidence that the first two albums with JR are by far the best to me, because they had the strongest dose of JR on them. And many of the best parts of DT12 for me are again JR's contributions.

Jordan is super talented, and I think that he arrangement-wise is the best member DT could possibly ask for. I just wished that his solos could have more variation to them, other than that they're performed with different keyboard sounds. I mean, he has the chops for it.

[Tick]

Am I crazy for thinking of Danny Elfman/Tim Burton every time I hear the opening track of the record?

[FrostbiteZ]

Am I crazy for thinking of Danny Elfman/Tim Burton every time I hear the opening track of the record?

I thought exactly the same when I heard it

[Tick]

Am I crazy for thinking of Danny Elfman/Tim Burton every time I hear the opening track of the record?

I thought exactly the same when I heard it

[FourthHorseman]

If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? 

[Implode]

Believe it or not, it is possible! Wow! Opinions and different music tastes! What a concept!

[efx]

If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? 

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen. Throughout my life most of the stuff that sticks with me has been stuff that clicked from the outset.
And this goes from everything from Katy Perry to Pierre Boulez.

Sure, as time goes on I have found new aspects of music I've known become apparent to me but I have never gone from hating something to loving it just because I kept forcing myself to listen to it.

[Ben_Jamin]

The thing about this album is the loudness of the intros and FAS not going directly into TEI. But then I guess if they wanted to play another song first after that opener it makes sense

I really enjoy the energy and MMs drums are excellent.  I think the guitars could've been a bit quieter,  the bass included. To me, the drums sound fine.

Overall the weakest link is JLB, yet he does a great job.

[Tick]

If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? 

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.

Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.

[efx]

If you play the album once and say "meh" and never listen again, why are you even listening to Progressive Rock/Metal? 

It is entirely possible to form an opinion of a piece of music regardless of the genre from one listen.

Sure you can, it just won't be an accurate one. Especially if its progressive. Too much going on. Your opinion will change from the one you first formed. For better or worse.

So, you are saying the experiences I've had are wrong even though I have conclusive proof that for me that's how it's been?