How is property an inalienable right?

[rumborak]

Fair enough, I just felt like pointing it out. Sometimes it strikes me as taken straight out of a satire with what ideas the right-wing Bible thumpers come around.

rumborak

[William Wallace]

The point I am making is simply that your analysis is incorrect because the example you gave is inapplicable to the present situation and is based on your misunderstanding of a Biblical text.  And besides you being completely wrong in trying to classify Jesus as a thief, it is completely irrelevant to the thread topic.

This could apply to just about everything rumby says about the NT.

I'm not saying he was a thief; he was a freeloader (because that's how itinerant preachers operated), and as such Praxis most likely would have mowed him over.
What I am saying is that it is rather weird to see self-professed Christians espouse this extreme form of Capitalism, where Jesus' message was almost bordering Communism (if not actually outright so).

rumborak

There's a difference between commands given to Christians and what was simply the culture of first century Palestine. They're very different things. You're right that it was a collectivist society, wrong that we're all supposed to live the same way.

[Super Dude]

An interesting point to bring up, considering present-day Israel's economy is doing quite well (perhaps not booming, but doing better than much of the West), and they are societally collectivist, even if economically there are elements of free market capitalism.

[jsem]

How did things go from property rights to this? 

[Super Dude]

Remember where we are.

[bosk1]

How did things go from property rights to this? 

rumborak

[Super Dude]

You're doing it wrong.

Super Jew

[PraXis]

I'm pretty sure he's a Christian, what with his insisting that his right to his own property is a God-given right.  He's certainly no Jew, what with all the gun-toting.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but I do not consider myself religious...I AM a theist, but can't really point to anything definitive, just some ideas I have pondered about life/God/existence/etc. As for your comments about Jews not toting guns, have you ever been to Israel? I saw tons of guns there, especially beautiful Israeli women with automatic weapons. 

[Adami]

I'm pretty sure he's a Christian, what with his insisting that his right to his own property is a God-given right.  He's certainly no Jew, what with all the gun-toting.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but I do not consider myself religious...I AM a theist, but can't really point to anything definitive, just some ideas I have pondered about life/God/existence/etc. As for your comments about Jews not toting guns, have you ever been to Israel? I saw tons of guns there, especially beautiful Israeli women with automatic weapons. 

You saw soldiers. Not civilians.

[PraXis]

I'm pretty sure he's a Christian, what with his insisting that his right to his own property is a God-given right.  He's certainly no Jew, what with all the gun-toting.

I was raised Roman Catholic, but I do not consider myself religious...I AM a theist, but can't really point to anything definitive, just some ideas I have pondered about life/God/existence/etc. As for your comments about Jews not toting guns, have you ever been to Israel? I saw tons of guns there, especially beautiful Israeli women with automatic weapons. 

You saw soldiers. Not civilians.

It didn't stop me from flirting with them. 

[Adami]

My point is there's a big difference between a population with a majority of enlisted personal, and a bunch of civilians waiting to shoot someone who looks at them funny.

[PraXis]

My point is there's a big difference between a population with a majority of enlisted personal, and a bunch of civilians waiting to shoot someone who looks at them funny.

The Israelis are trained and disciplined with firearms, just like the Swiss. I don't know their property rights laws (not my business), but they are strong in America. I am also trained. The Castle Doctrine is a beautiful thing.

[Adami]

My point is there's a big difference between a population with a majority of enlisted personal, and a bunch of civilians waiting to shoot someone who looks at them funny.

The Israelis are trained and disciplined with firearms, just like the Swiss. I don't know their property rights laws (not my business), but they are strong in America. I am also trained. The Castle Doctrine is a beautiful thing.

Well, something tells me you're not quite IDF material, but I'm sure you know how to shoot and all that stuff. Anywho, just like America, Israel was kind of founded on a shaky idea of property rights .

[bosk1]

Adami, you really need to stop being so antagonistic.  Every post of yours in this thread is baiting PraXis about how YOU subjectively believe he is itching to go out and shoot somebody.  You are baiting and dragging the thread off topic, and it needs to stop.

[Adami]

You got it boss.

[Super Dude]

Never mind again, it was a question of property rights in a property thread!

Adami, is that true about Israeli property rights?  I mean I thought the whole point of kibbutzim was to remove all doubt of what belonged to the Commons?

[rumborak]

In the end, Praxis with his comment (somewhat accidentally) brought it to the point. Property rights are nowhere near the "universality" and self-evidence that say personal rights have, and he was forced to invoke a deity in order to give it more solid footing.

rumborak

[Super Dude]

Itself a fragile basis, given the growth of Western atheism.

[7thHanyou]

I can picture you standing over some guys body with a huge smile on your face that you finally got to kill a man for violating your property. Of course everyone standing around will wonder why you shot the mail man, but that's your business.

It seems like my right to own firearms and defend personal has struck a nerve with those who I assume are of the liberal persuasion on this forum due to all the snarky comments.  

You didn't strike a nerve with me, I just don't understand someone who gets off on the idea of killing a violator. Defense is a necessary evil in my eyes, not something to get psyched about. But I thought it was a good joke, so I made it.

There's nothing remotely evil about defense, even if it involves killing.  In fact, obstructing someone who intends to violate the innocent in any way is a good thing.

Why is it such a popular assumption that killing is inherently bad?  How many people would cry over the corpse of someone who was trying to rape or murder themselves or a member of their family?  There's no tragedy when a true violator is killed, just a prevention of tragedy...and maybe multiple tragedies.

Also, to state that a creator is a necessary condition of property rights is a straw man.  Like any rights, there is a basis for our property rights in our humanity.  Ayn Rand certainly thought so, among countless others, none of whom thought a diety was necessary to argue some objective morality.