The Mike Mangini Thread (Thanks & Farewell)

[nobloodyname]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vRyn9dMLVg
Drum perfection 

Without trying to start another pointless and endless debate, just wanted to say I'm going to miss that.

One of the comments refers to MP as being "the Lars of prog". Really?

[Schurftkut]

well, he doesn't practice and does sound a bit sloppy at times 

[nobloodyname]

Oh, come on.

Still, at least you have a choice over whether to listen to the new album.

[Setlist Scotty]

well, he doesn't practice and does sound a bit sloppy at times 

I would say MP is to MM what Bonham is to Peart.

[bosk1]

well, he doesn't practice and does sound a bit sloppy at times 

Been covered here many, many times--that's not really true at all.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vRyn9dMLVg
Drum perfection 

Without trying to start another pointless and endless debate, just wanted to say I'm going to miss that.

One of the comments refers to MP as being "the Lars of prog". Really?

Yeah, that is way over the top in my book. I do not see those two as the same. I am not even saying Lars is a bad drummer. I think he gets a lot of unwarranted hate.

There are different styles out there. Some are more about vibe and energy and that's cool too. In the beginning, a lot of those MP drum parts were pretty inventive to me and I give him a lot of credit for that. When I found out about DT I was into a lot of the bigger metal acts like Pantera. I loved that stuff but when I heard I&W I thought it was a whole different level of creativity. I can't say that about Lars.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vRyn9dMLVg
Drum perfection 

Without trying to start another pointless and endless debate, just wanted to say I'm going to miss that.

Same. I have been listening to that song a lot lately and dig the cymbal work on the verse. Doesn't sound particularly complex to me although I will let the drummers chime in on that, but it interacts with the band perfectly. He is known for being a robotic technical drummer but his sense of orchestration is second to none in the metal world.

[Stadler]

Shows you where my head is at:  I took the "Lars" comment not as a dig against any playing ability, but how he's transcended a simple genre and has been a force to be reckoned with in the bands he's in, tackling other things like artwork, lyrics, setlists...

[Adami]

Shows you where my head is at:  I took the "Lars" comment not as a dig against any playing ability, but how he's transcended a simple genre and has been a force to be reckoned with in the bands he's in, tackling other things like artwork, lyrics, setlists...

I'm as a big a Lars guy as anyone else, but no way does a comparison to him mean a compliment.

[nobloodyname]

Yeah. I like Stad's interpretation but the likelihood of that being the OP's intention is... limited, I would say.

[Max Kuehnau]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vRyn9dMLVg
Drum perfection 

Without trying to start another pointless and endless debate, just wanted to say I'm going to miss that.

Same. I have been listening to that song a lot lately and dig the cymbal work on the verse. Doesn't sound particularly complex to me although I will let the drummers chime in on that, but it interacts with the band perfectly. He is known for being a robotic technical drummer but his sense of orchestration is second to none in the metal world.

It is and I can tell you, that section of the piece doesn't seem hard to play, but it very much is, because of the coordination required, especially with the hihat parts (stepping the hihats and not stepping in sequence and perfect time amongst other things). The funny thing is, that section isn't even the hardest of the piece.  And of course the interplay with everyone is very musical (and precise).

[Stadler]

Yeah. I like Stad's interpretation but the likelihood of that being the OP's intention is... limited, I would say.

No doubt;  I don't think it was a compliment either.  It's the internet. 

[Dream Team]

Just watched Disc 2 of the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD. Not sure how anyone could watch that and not enjoy  Mangini immensely. Grooving with the music, improvising, showmanship, everything.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Just watched Disc 2 of the Breaking the Fourth Wall DVD. Not sure how anyone could watch that and not enjoy  Mangini immensely. Grooving with the music, improvising, showmanship, everything.

A lot of it is because he is not Mike Portnoy.

[hunnus2000]

A lot of it is because he is not Mike Portnoy.

I've been saying this for years......

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I've been saying this for years......

Apparently you and a lot of the fanbase 

It's not just drumming at the end of the day. It's a persona and a legacy and memories for lots of folk. I don't see it that way but I get it.

[hunnus2000]

Apparently you and a lot of the fanbase 

It's not just drumming at the end of the day. It's a persona and a legacy and memories for lots of folk. I don't see it that way but I get it.

Well you would be correct.

MP certainly has a different stage persona than MM.

[Dream Team]

A lot of it is because he is not Mike Portnoy.

Ok. But the drumming itself is not stiff or robotic or lacking groove.

[Max Kuehnau]

You're right, it doesn't lack anything. People *perceive* him to be robotic or stiff (or you can choose any descriptive) because he is as precise as he is. People seem to be put off by precision in music. (even musicians, believe it or not, far more of them than you might think, sadly) See where I'm going with this?

[Trav86]

You're right, it doesn't lack anything. People *perceive* him to be robotic or stiff (or you can choose any descriptive) because he is as precise as he is. People seem to be put off by precision in music. (even musicians, believe it or not, far more of them than you might think, sadly) See where I'm going with this?

Robotic drumming is in the ear of the beholder.

[PixelDream]

I think a lot of the robotic remarks have more to do with how his drums sounded on most releases. I just had Score playing the entire evening and I just watched some Breaking the Fourth Wall; Mangini’s drums (esp snare) sound fake and super compressed. But to be fair, the entire sound production is way more FX-laden and compressed than they used to have in the Portnoy era. The Distant Memories release is even more extreme in that regard.

If you hear Mangini’s acoustic drum sound it actually doesn’t sound robotic at all.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Ok. But the drumming itself is not stiff or robotic or lacking groove.

Oh, I completely agree. I actually think his pocket is deeper than Portnoy's though neither is in any way a groove drummer.

At the end of the day people just form attachments to people, places, and things. I think the 'too-robotic' was very ironic criticism that made no sense then or now. I mean, I've been listening to the exact same complaint about John Petrucci from fellow guitar players for over 20 years. There is a whole universe of guitarists and music enthusiasts who think as soon as you become technical you simply lose something. They love David Gilmour and Jimmy Page etc and they can't imagine John can be both technical and extremely musical because what they've been listening to is guitar players who don't play that way. That's what I think is happening here to some extent.

The other thing I totally missed is how much Mike Portnoy means to some fans. I've done a bit of scrolling through social media comments and people love this dude. It reads as though a lot of fans are truly emotional about this reunion. There is no way Mike Mangini was ever going to win those fans over in the role he was given. We can talk about all the reasons why he doesn't have that fan base but end of the day he just does not have a fan base that deep.

[Stadler]

Oh, I completely agree. I actually think his pocket is deeper than Portnoy's though neither is in any way a groove drummer.

At the end of the day people just form attachments to people, places, and things. I think the 'too-robotic' was very ironic criticism that made no sense then or now. I mean, I've been listening to the exact same complaint about John Petrucci from fellow guitar players for over 20 years. There is a whole universe of guitarists and music enthusiasts who think as soon as you become technical you simply lose something. They love David Gilmour and Jimmy Page etc and they can't imagine John can be both technical and extremely musical because what they've been listening to is guitar players who don't play that way. That's what I think is happening here to some extent.

The other thing I totally missed is how much Mike Portnoy means to some fans. I've done a bit of scrolling through social media comments and people love this dude. It reads as though a lot of fans are truly emotional about this reunion. There is no way Mike Mangini was ever going to win those fans over in the role he was given. We can talk about all the reasons why he doesn't have that fan base but end of the day he just does not have a fan base that deep.

Yes. There are some right here on this forum. Me, for one. I don't know that he was 'never going to win me over'; I'm not that dense.  But I was sad when Portnoy left and I am overjoyed that he is back.

[Dream Team]

Good points. The guitar elitists you mentioned are sad and delusional.

[hefdaddy42]

The other thing I totally missed is how much Mike Portnoy means to some fans. I've done a bit of scrolling through social media comments and people love this dude. It reads as though a lot of fans are truly emotional about this reunion. There is no way Mike Mangini was ever going to win those fans over in the role he was given. We can talk about all the reasons why he doesn't have that fan base but end of the day he just does not have a fan base that deep.

You're only now realizing this?  It's been pretty obvious since Mangini got the gig.  And it wouldn't have mattered if a different drummer won the "audition".  It would have been the same case.

[TAC]

Right. They could not have hired a better guy as far as personality and chemistry, but when listening to music...drumming does matter.

[emtee]

I can only speak for myself but what impacted me the most after the initial depression of MP leaving wore off was the abysmal, unforgivable drum sound captured on ADToE, and then again on DT. this was NOT Mangini's fault...the drum sound decisions were above his pay grade at that point. While this in no way was a reflection of MM's insane capabilities, it deeply impacted my ability to buy into the drumming change. Keep in mind I'm specifically talking about the physical CD releases of the above albums. Possibly one of the world's best drummers having among the worst, modern-day drum sounds ever. MP would NEVER signed off on releasing those 2 albums with the percussion instruments sounding the way they did.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

You're only now realizing this?  It's been pretty obvious since Mangini got the gig.  And it wouldn't have mattered if a different drummer won the "audition".  It would have been the same case.

Honestly, no I didn't. I wasn't interacting with the fan base much at the time so I missed most of the Facebook and forum commentaries. I know he has an enormous following but probably underestimated it because he's the drummer! Usually it's the singer or guitarist who can command that amount of loyalty.

And agreed, none of the other drummers would have survived the inevitable sway of the tide because at the end of the day I don't think this has anything to do with job performance. Realistically there was nothing anyone could have done to fend off MP's return.

[gborland]

MP would NEVER signed off on releasing those 2 albums with the percussion instruments sounding the way they did.

Right. This is why he is so much more than just a drummer, and this is why DT needed him back so badly.

[Ben_Jamin]

Eh. I enjoy the drum production on those albums. The snare has a thick tone on DT.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Even if people didn't like them, the last 2 albums did not suffer from this.

[emtee]

Even if people didn't like them, the last 2 albums did not suffer from this.

Absolutely! Both sound fantastic and as a result they are upper middle tier or higher for me. I go back to both often.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Absolutely! Both sound fantastic and as a result they are upper middle tier or higher for me. I go back to both often.

Same for me. View is a very good album but I think the production, mix, whatever the proper term is, sounds great. I can hear all the cymbal work clear as a bell and the snare sounds good.

For people who understand this stuff, I'd be curious as to how Mangini's sound differs on View and his new solo album.

[nikatapi]

Same for me. View is a very good album but I think the production, mix, whatever the proper term is, sounds great. I can hear all the cymbal work clear as a bell and the snare sounds good.

For people who understand this stuff, I'd be curious as to how Mangini's sound differs on View and his new solo album.

His solo album has a bit of a more organic sound in my ears, less compression so you can hear the drums a bit more clearly. Definitely helps that the songs are less busy in terms of orchestration as well