Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[wolven74]

This may have been brought up before, but does anyone else think that Queensryche releasing a self-title album this year might have a negative effect on people's reception of the new DT album? I mean, obviously the music will speak for itself, but I can see some people who follow Queensryche being put off by this... I don't even know whether to call it a coincidence or not.

Not a chance in hell. Queensryche with La Torre has to regain fans, while DTs fan base has stayed fairly consistent. I don't think QR releasing a self titled CD before DT does has any bearing at all on how either band's release does.

[TheGreatPretender]

Not a chance in hell. Queensryche with La Torre has to regain fans, while DTs fan base has stayed fairly consistent. I don't think QR releasing a self titled CD before DT does has any bearing at all on how either band's release does.

Or... Could it go completely the other way around, and considering that the two biggest pioneers of Prog Metal both released a self-titled album on the same year? Could it make people get 'patriotic' (for the lack of a better term) about Progressive Metal, and encourage some people who kind of drifted to other musical styles, to catch up on the genre and embrace it once again?

[mellotron_scratch]

Yea, they never seemed to take a huge interest in Jazz music. JP seems to be a bit into fusion, but that's it. Being a good improviser/soloist is different than being a "talented jazz player". Jazz is a completely different animal to what DT does.

I don't really think that's the case. I could be wrong, but I feel like they are completely capable of writing jazz. LTE had a lot more jazz influence than DT ever has, and I'd be happy even with just that amount of jazz in their music.

Nah, the music LTE did had nothing to do with jazz.  It seems to me that the people talking about DT's "jazz influences" aren't really familiar with jazz at all.

Agreed. Just because LTE had improvisation doesn't mean it was jazz

[wolven74]

Not a chance in hell. Queensryche with La Torre has to regain fans, while DTs fan base has stayed fairly consistent. I don't think QR releasing a self titled CD before DT does has any bearing at all on how either band's release does.

Or... Could it go completely the other way around, and considering that the two biggest pioneers of Prog Metal both released a self-titled album on the same year? Could it make people get 'patriotic' (for the lack of a better term) about Progressive Metal, and encourage some people who kind of drifted to other musical styles, to catch up on the genre and embrace it once again?

I think DT would encourage people who've drifted to other styles to come back to prog metal rather than Queensryche. While Queensryche were pioneers before DT hit the scene, DT has avoided vicious media clashes between current and former members (during a year they're releasing big new music.) I don't think we have to worry about anyone affecting either release. Queensryche is already out, you can hear what it sounds like and make a judgement. As for DT, we have no idea what to expect, and the anticipation for their new CD is still building.

[Mosh]

Yea, they never seemed to take a huge interest in Jazz music. JP seems to be a bit into fusion, but that's it. Being a good improviser/soloist is different than being a "talented jazz player". Jazz is a completely different animal to what DT does.

I don't really think that's the case. I could be wrong, but I feel like they are completely capable of writing jazz. LTE had a lot more jazz influence than DT ever has, and I'd be happy even with just that amount of jazz in their music.

Nah, the music LTE did had nothing to do with jazz.  It seems to me that the people talking about DT's "jazz influences" aren't really familiar with jazz at all.

Yea. I hear a hint of Jazz on the solos for Solitary Shell and that's about it. And even that's pushing it.

[obscure]

This should be our RR guy 

Iron Man is a Dream Theater fan! https://ow.ly/naWgh

[MoraWintersoul]

This should be our RR guy 

Iron Man is a Dream Theater fan! https://ow.ly/naWgh

The account of Roadrunner Records on Tumblr also posted that fun fact, that Tumblr also reblogged my Dream Theater/Game Of Thrones sigils

[Nefarius]

they should offer the an instant download of the CD when you pre-order. they could do it the same as they do for the magazines, mark it so they can trace if anyone leaks it, and then we would get it sooner and they get alot more pre-orders. i for one thinks it sucks that a magazine writer who probably doesnt give a crap about DT gets to hear it 2 months before the paying customer.

That would mean watermarking a set of MP3s for every pre-ordering customer, not much fun and not very practicable. Same as preparing the inevitable lawsuits against hundreds of idiots who want to be the first to leak it anyways, not much fun either. Denny Crane! And of course magazines get pre-release versions, they need to write previews about that damn thing before it's available to build the anticipation and hype even more, it's a part of marketing.

If you're so anxious to listen to it on release day you can always pre-order the deluxe-box-set-thingy. If it's like the last two albums it will offer a digital download version available on release. Though their download servers tend to reach their limits pretty fast and be very slow, so you better prepare for a few hours and disconnects.

Greetings...
Nef

[tiagodon]

If the wait is anguish, the new album from Avenged Sevenfold is coming up next month. I think that A7X and DT have a lot in common musically. Something to fulfill the void...

[aprilethereal]

If the wait is anguish, the new album from Avenged Sevenfold is coming up next month. I think that A7X and DT have a lot in common musically. Something to fulfill the void...

I hope you're not serious.

[obscure]

This should be our RR guy 

Iron Man is a Dream Theater fan! https://ow.ly/naWgh

The account of Roadrunner Records on Tumblr also posted that fun fact, that Tumblr also reblogged my Dream Theater/Game Of Thrones sigils

Check you out baby!!!! hat-worthy! 

[Super Dude]

If the wait is anguish, the new album from Avenged Sevenfold is coming up next month. I think that A7X and DT have a lot in common musically. Something to fulfill the void...

I hope you're not serious.

Actually they have.

[erciccio]

Well, they both have a drummer, a guitar player, a bass guitar player and a singer.

That proves at least an 80% commonality 

[tiagodon]

If the wait is anguish, the new album from Avenged Sevenfold is coming up next month. I think that A7X and DT have a lot in common musically. Something to fulfill the void...

I hope you're not serious.

Actually they have.

Yes, they do! A7X was the previous step for me to starting to like DT. I would say that A7X is a DT with less complexity (instrumentally speaking).

[Super Dude]

They're both metal bands that like to think they're progressive.

[Sycsa]

They're both metal bands that like to think they're progressive.

DT would like to think that they're progressive? You be sappin' mah brain. 

[Super Dude]

Long songs and wankery ≠ progressive. I would argue the most progressive bands of our day aren't even remotely associated with the genre.

[King Postwhore]

Long songs and wankery ≠ progressive. I would argue the most progressive bands of our day aren't even remotely associated with the genre.

So that makes DT not progressive?

SD there many genres of prog.

[Super Dude]

They're just a metal band that writes long songs. And as I said in another thread, unless I'm missing someone crucial, prog is not progressive.

[King Postwhore]

They were trending more metal but that still doesn't exclude them from prog.

[Super Dude]

No, it doesn't exclude them from prog metal. But then Metallica is considered as having prog tendencies.

[Joshin U]

prog is not progressive.

wat

I was under the impression that prog is literally just short for progressive...? 

Unless you mean most bands that CALL themselves prog aren't truly progressive.

[Perpetual Change]

They're just a metal band that writes long songs. And as I said in another thread, unless I'm missing someone crucial, prog is not progressive.

IMO, they are the same thing. The distinction is just a one made up by people who take music really seriously and want to distinguish bands who make music in the styles of the 70's prog rockers (prog) with bands who genuinely try and push the limits of music in their own way (progressive).

I have no problem calling "prog" bands "progressive" bands, and "proggressive" bands "prog". From my perspective, bands who follow the tradition of 70s  rock can always be referred to as progressive bands OR prog for shorthand, whereas the more modern genre-defyers are generally tacked with the label "experimental" instead.

No matter how you slice it, DT are both progressive AND experimental, though they were more balanced in the early days, whereas now I think they pretty much stick to their own confines (which is fine). I don't mind DT sticking to prog, but I would like a little bit more of that early genre experimenation/fusion return, like the carribean sounding music in Learning to Live or the Jazz across SFAM.

[Lucien]

prog is not progressive.

wat

I was under the impression that prog is literally just short for progressive...? 

Unless you mean most bands that CALL themselves prog aren't truly progressive.

This.

Besides, they have all the time signature changes that are associated with the early progressive bands.

[King Postwhore]

No, it doesn't exclude them from prog metal. But then Metallica is considered as having prog tendencies.

Not even close.  DT is a prog style of metal and Metallica is a metal band.

Hey, I for one like when DY is not metal all the time.

[Sycsa]

Octavarium got 70's prog written all over it.

[tiagodon]

I would say that "And Justice for All" from Metallica is a metal prog album!

[Super Dude]

prog is not progressive.

wat

I was under the impression that prog is literally just short for progressive...? 

Unless you mean most bands that CALL themselves prog aren't truly progressive.

This.

Besides, they have all the time signature changes that are associated with the early progressive bands.

Which is entirely my point.

[Lucien]

prog is not progressive.

wat

I was under the impression that prog is literally just short for progressive...? 

Unless you mean most bands that CALL themselves prog aren't truly progressive.

This.

Besides, they have all the time signature changes that are associated with the early progressive bands.

Which is entirely my point.

You kind of made the impression that DT is prog, but not progressive.

[jdprsaga]

Yea, they never seemed to take a huge interest in Jazz music. JP seems to be a bit into fusion, but that's it. Being a good improviser/soloist is different than being a "talented jazz player". Jazz is a completely different animal to what DT does.

I don't really think that's the case. I could be wrong, but I feel like they are completely capable of writing jazz. LTE had a lot more jazz influence than DT ever has, and I'd be happy even with just that amount of jazz in their music.

Nah, the music LTE did had nothing to do with jazz.  It seems to me that the people talking about DT's "jazz influences" aren't really familiar with jazz at all.

Yea. I hear a hint of Jazz on the solos for Solitary Shell and that's about it. And even that's pushing it.

Well it would be nice if they use something in the line of The Saurus, that would be freaking cool, at least in some instrumental brake or something

[Super Dude]

prog is not progressive.

wat

I was under the impression that prog is literally just short for progressive...? 

Unless you mean most bands that CALL themselves prog aren't truly progressive.

This.

Besides, they have all the time signature changes that are associated with the early progressive bands.

Which is entirely my point.

You kind of made the impression that DT is prog, but not progressive.

Correct. Noodling around on a mellotron like bands from the '70s may make you prog, but that's not progressive.

[dongringo]

What a funny conversation. Prog is simply short for Progressive.

[Joshin U]

prog is not progressive.

wat

I was under the impression that prog is literally just short for progressive...? 

Unless you mean most bands that CALL themselves prog aren't truly progressive.

This.

Besides, they have all the time signature changes that are associated with the early progressive bands.

Which is entirely my point.

Fair enough, but if prog and progressive are interchangable, and prog truly isn't progressive anymore...

What IS progressive anymore?

[Super Dude]

I dunno, what do you think?

[Lynxo]

I've seen that definition here before - who came up with "prog" and "progressive" being two different labels? Where and when was it established? By who?

How can a band who has a reggae section in Learning To Live (live version), a horror movie section in The Dark Eternal Night or a ragtime piano section in Dance of Eternity, amidst all the metal riffs, not be considered progressive? The band is a lot more than heavy riffs and different time signatures.