Taylor Swift

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

What about "Fat" by 'Weird Al' Yankovic?

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

She has written all of her songs, whether as solo writes or with a co-writer. 

Yeah, was just saying that for this debate it seems worthwhile for the song in question to be one she has sole credit for.

[Skeever]

IMO Taylor doesn't have a "Billie Jean", but few do. But that's beside the point. She might not even have a "Hit Me Baby One More Time" or "Real Slim Shady" or "10,000 Miles". That's not necessarily due to the quality of her songs, but moreso due to how insular and atomized cultural experience are these days - you can fill stadiums, and be the biggest artist in your field, and yet there the majority of people would not recognize your song, because in this moment everyone lives in their own technologically carved out algorithm. I'd bet many Swifties in this thread would feel similarly about Beyonce. How many people here could recall a single tune, or hum more than a chorus or two?

Though, I've had a feeling, even though I don't think Taylor Swift has anything close to, say, "Falling in Love With You", "Ring of Fire", "Born in the USA", "Piano Man", "Sympathy for the Devil", "Bohemian Rhapsody" - the list goes on and on - she might very well be the last celebrity that we all at least recognize. Being that person, moving forward, will only get harder and harder as the culture continues to fracture.

[nick_z]

Interesting points all around. Which actually makes me wonder - what are more recent songs, from any artist, that managed to be super-popular and "iconic"? Almost by definition, some time needs to have passed for a tune to be cemented in the overall public consciousness, so there's that.

As for Taylor Swift - I'd agree that Love Story is perhaps her "classic" (not comparing it to the other classics mentioned here, necessarily). She herself says that she will always play that one live.

Oh, and for what it's worth, as far as songs go, I'd also say Billie Jean is MJ's signature tune, more so than Thriller.

[MirrorMask]

I'd bet many Swifties in this thread would feel similarly about Beyonce. How many people here could recall a single tune, or hum more than a chorus or two?

I absolutely not know any single song from Beyoncé. And if I ever heard a chorus here or there, I don't know it's her.

But then again, I went four months without knowing which song was Despacito.

[Zantera]

Interesting points all around. Which actually makes me wonder - what are more recent songs, from any artist, that managed to be super-popular and "iconic"? Almost by definition, some time needs to have passed for a tune to be cemented in the overall public consciousness, so there's that.

As for Taylor Swift - I'd agree that Love Story is perhaps her "classic" (not comparing it to the other classics mentioned here, necessarily). She herself says that she will always play that one live.

Oh, and for what it's worth, as far as songs go, I'd also say Billie Jean is MJ's signature tune, more so than Thriller.

In terms of pure pop songs you'd hear on the radio or anywhere else I'd say Carly Rae Jepsen's Call Me Maybe is up there. Whether you like it or dislike it I feel like its a song a lot of people would recognize just right off the bat.

[Stadler]

I think the problem with this latest question is that it's too easy to be a novelty.  I think the only Beyonce song I know is "Put a ring on it" or whatever (it's called "Single Ladies"), and that's not because of the song itself, but the sort of social construct around it.

[KevShmev]

Uptown Funk is the first song that came to mind for me when thinking about iconic songs from the last 10-15 years that have held up as one that (almost) everyone knows. I suspect even people living under rocks know that song.

Love Story and You Belong with Me both deserve consideration for Taylor's most iconic.  The number of songs that brought the house down at the Taylor concert I saw a year ago is long, but You Belong with Me had the crowd into as much of a frenzy as any song.

[hefdaddy42]

What about "Fat" by 'Weird Al' Yankovic?

  What about it?

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

  What about it?

Michael Jackson parodied it with his hit song "Bad"!!!! Poor Al was trying to move away from the comedy/parody life and write originals and MJ had to come along and one-up him with a parody

[hefdaddy42]

Michael Jackson parodied it with his hit song "Bad"!!!! Poor Al was trying to move away from the comedy/parody life and write originals and MJ had to come along and one-up him with a parody

[Metro]

I think he’s referencing the Weird Al movie from a couple years ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird:_The_Al_Yankovic_Story




Oh yeah, Taylor Swift thread. Uh, Shake that blank space off and waterboard a poet, or something like that.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

yeah it was a joke about Weird: The Al Yankovic Story

[KevShmev]

I am waiting for Weird Al's "I Did Something Rad" parody.

[Dream Team]

yeah it was a joke about Weird: The Al Yankovic Story

Nobody laughed. Keep trying though!

[skydivingninja]

Michael Jackson parodied it with his hit song "Bad"!!!! Poor Al was trying to move away from the comedy/parody life and write originals and MJ had to come along and one-up him with a parody

 

[MirrorMask]

For no reason at all, I've decided to use the font size to describe my liking of the tracks. Standard font is standard liking. Smaller is negative, the bigger, the better the enjoyment. I could probably be a bit more nuanced but no need to introduce colors, various degrees of font size and italics.

The Tortured Poets Department

1.   Fortnight
2.   The Tortured Poets Department
3.   My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
4.   Down Bad
5.   So Long, London
6.   But Daddy I Love Him
7.   Fresh Out the Slammer
8.   Florida!!!
9.   Guilty as Sin?
10.   Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?
11.   I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
12.   Loml   
13.   I Can Do It with a Broken Heart
14.   The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
15.   The Alchemy
16.   Clara Bow

The Anthology

17.   The Black Dog
18.   Imgonnagetyouback
19.   The Albatross
20.   Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus
21.   How Did It End?
22.   So High School
23.   I Hate It Here
24.   Thank You Aimee
25.   I Look in People's Windows
26.   The Prophecy
27.   Cassandra
28.   Peter
29.    The Bolter
30.    Robin
31.    The Manuscript

[Zook]

Damn, you have Guilty as Sin really small and that's one of the only songs that actually stood out to me as alright. I've heard The Manuscript a couple times now, and it aggravates me that that song was being billed as a special bonus song, when it's such a nothing song that goes nowhere. Not every thought needs to be put to two notes from a piano.

Florida is ok I guess, but I find myself once again nitpicking the music choices. You don't have Thank You aiMe very big either, but I remember that one having some redeeming qualities even though I can't remember anything about it. Not a single thing. I can't remember anything about Guilty as Sin either. The chorus to Florida is the only thing I can remember, and I don't like the drum beats.

[KevShmev]

MirrorMask, good post!

I am with ya on Peter (still my favorite song from this and quickly becoming one of my favorites by her in general), and I am pretty high on Florida!!! as well.

As the only real bop on the record, I think I Did It with a Broken Heart is a little better than you seem to, but it does seems like it's lacking something that would have put it over the top as another Shake It Off.

Imgonnagetyouback is the one song here I can probably do without.  Don't know what it is, but the melodies just don't grab me. 

For me, the run from Fresh Out the Slammer through Who's Afraid... is the best part of the first disc.  Not that the songs that immediately precede and follow it aren't really good, but just that run strikes me as working really well on its own.

Zook, I feel the minimalist arrangement of The Manuscript is brilliant.  And that bridge is something else.  Great way to end the Anthology, IMO.

Ultimately, this feels like her White Album.  A long double album that a minority of fans will call her best, but most will view as an album with a lot of good and a lot of just okay. 

[MirrorMask]

As the only real bop on the record, I think I Did It with a Broken Heart is a little better than you seem to, but it does seems like it's lacking something that would have put it over the top as another Shake It Off.

I stumbled upon an acoustic version on YouTube and I realized the lyrics are quite cool and deep. I just can't bring myself to pay attention to them 'cause that bop beat is simply something I can't force myself to like.

And yeah, I bolded my favorite songs from each disc: Florida and Peter.

This bridge has to be the most hauntingly melanchonic, and full of regret for things that never were, of the entire double album:

And I won't confess that I waited
But I let the lamp burn
As the men masqueraded
I hoped you'd return
With your feet on the ground
Tell me all that you'd learned
Cause love's never lost when perspective is earned
And you said you'd come and get me but you were 25
And the shelf life of those fantasies has expired
Lost to the lost boys chapter of your life
Forgive me Peter, please know that I tried
To hold onto the days when you were mine
But the woman who sits by the window has turned out the light

It's apples and oranges, but I daresay it's her Beneath the Surface. Regret and longing for something that never happened but could have.

[HOF]

Guilty as Sin is the only song I've checked out so far. It made no impression on me other than the lyrics were pretty cringe, but it references The Blue Nile's The Downtown Lights, so that's at least very cool.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

Guilty as Sin is the only song I've checked out so far. It made no impression on me other than the lyrics were pretty cringe, but it references The Blue Nile's The Downtown Lights, so that's at least very cool.

Hell yeah, Blue Nile!!! Great ggroup

[HOF]

Hell yeah, Blue Nile!!! Great ggroup

One of the greatest.

[ariich]

Interesting points all around. Which actually makes me wonder - what are more recent songs, from any artist, that managed to be super-popular and "iconic"? Almost by definition, some time needs to have passed for a tune to be cemented in the overall public consciousness, so there's that.

True, but also those that stick in the consciousness tend to be either because they are a fun novelty or, more positively, because they are distinctive in some way. The thing with Taylor's music - insanely popular though it (and she) is - is that there isn't really anything distinctive about her sound or style. I just checked out Love Story and I couldn't tell you if I've ever heard it before. And if I had I couldn't have told you who sang it, could have been anyone.

The exception, I think, is Shake It Off which is the first one someone suggested. It's a more distinctive tune and more connected to her specifically in the wider public consciousness beyond her own fans.

[nick_z]

I'm really enjoying the album...keep going back to it, so that must mean something...

If I have to pick one favorite, it might be Guilty as Sin?...But I agree with Kev on the run of songs on the "main" album, except I would add But Daddy I Love Him.

As usual, I can do without some of the swearing...not because it's Taylor Swift or whomever...I just feel it's a bit forced at times. A song like Down Bad has a cool mood, and I get what she's conveying with the lyrics, but after 20 or so f**k it, I'm a little over it 

Also definitely getting into the Anthology part. The melodies are definitely finding their way in my brain. Peter is probably my favorite too. Good picks from MirrorMask...I would make How Did It End a bit larger too 

[KevShmev]

I stumbled upon an acoustic version on YouTube and I realized the lyrics are quite cool and deep. I just can't bring myself to pay attention to them 'cause that bop beat is simply something I can't force myself to like.

I say this as someone who likes the way Antonoff produces her music overall, but that feels like a song that needed the Max Martin touch to make it really pop, pun intended.  She said it nicely and never said him specifically, but I sense Martin was who Swift was referring to a few years ago when she said there are producers out there who won't produce your music unless they receive a co-writing credit as well.  He didn't come back to produce any of the 1989 or Red tracks he originally co-produced, so my guess is she doesn't want to work anymore with someone who doesn't earn their credit (and she has no issues with giving co-writing credits to those who do help her write songs). 

And yeah, I bolded my favorite songs from each disc: Florida and Peter.

This bridge has to be the most hauntingly melanchonic, and full of regret for things that never were, of the entire double album:

And I won't confess that I waited
But I let the lamp burn
As the men masqueraded
I hoped you'd return
With your feet on the ground
Tell me all that you'd learned
Cause love's never lost when perspective is earned
And you said you'd come and get me but you were 25
And the shelf life of those fantasies has expired
Lost to the lost boys chapter of your life
Forgive me Peter, please know that I tried
To hold onto the days when you were mine
But the woman who sits by the window has turned out the light

It's apples and oranges, but I daresay it's her Beneath the Surface. Regret and longing for something that never happened but could have.

Yep, yep. that bridge is a beast.  Not that Midnights didn't have some great bridges (You're On Your Own, Kid, anyone?), but she really brought it on this record with the outstanding bridges. 

[KevShmev]

If I have to pick one favorite, it might be Guilty as Sin?...But I agree with Kev on the run of songs on the "main" album, except I would add But Daddy I Love Him.

 

Regarding Guilty as Sin?, did anyone have her writing a song about female masturbation on their Bingo card?

As usual, I can do without some of the swearing...not because it's Taylor Swift or whomever...I just feel it's a bit forced at times. A song like Down Bad has a cool mood, and I get what she's conveying with the lyrics, but after 20 or so f**k it, I'm a little over it 

 

I mostly agree.  I like Down Bad (not as much as the fanbase seems to, but I do like it), but that is the one where the swearing does seem excessive. I need to check out the clean version, although I suspect the cleaned up version will sap away the venom of the song.

Also definitely getting into the Anthology part. The melodies are definitely finding their way in my brain. Peter is probably my favorite too. Good picks from MirrorMask...I would make How Did It End a bit larger too 

Could not agree more.  How Did It End? is a track 5, so it has to be great, right?   But yeah, that is a standout on a disc (the 2nd) loaded with standouts).  Taylor singing over just a piano (or with minor other embellishments) is always money, and we got, what, 6-7 songs like that on this record?  Can't argue with that.

[nick_z]

Random note…The Albatross sounds to me particularly Folklore/Evermore-sque. I mean, the whole Anthology part is more in that vein, but that song in particular…

[KevShmev]

Random note…The Albatross sounds to me particularly Folklore/Evermore-sque. I mean, the whole Anthology part is more in that vein, but that song in particular…

For sure.  The Anthology part of TTPD sounds like summer.  I know she had said that Folkmore and Evermore were supposed to represent summer and winter, but while Evermore is totally a winter record, I have never quite bought Folklore being summery.  These Anthology songs, though...totally (musically).

[nick_z]

Another random note as I was revisiting Folklore today...The Last Great American Dynasty is steadily climbing as one of my favorite TS songs. The melodies, the vocals, the story-telling, the arrangements...it's a great tune.

[MirrorMask]

If you have three and a half hours to spare, you can enjoy all the backdrops of the Eras tour!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2rl7_AYDSU&ab_channel=CristianPerry

[KevShmev]

I noticed it wasn't there in the Eras tour film, but after checking out Bejeweled there, she obviously had the visuals tweaked at some point to remove the cool effect of her face behind the effects on the screen during the chorus, which I thought was pretty rad at our show in Nashville last year.  The below clip from the Atlanta show still has it (starts around :27).  Not necessarily one of my favorite songs by her, but I really dug that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSjckRdY_Kc

And I with ya on The Last Great American Dynasty, nick_z.  That has been one of my favorites from Folklore for a while now. 

[faizoff]

Another random note as I was revisiting Folklore today...The Last Great American Dynasty is steadily climbing as one of my favorite TS songs. The melodies, the vocals, the story-telling, the arrangements...it's a great tune.

And I with ya on The Last Great American Dynasty, nick_z.  That has been one of my favorites from Folklore for a while now.

Steven Wilson had the same thoughts I guess and covered the track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUGVuqakYtE&ab_channel=StevenWilson

[MirrorMask]

It's opening night of the 2024 tour in Paris!

In case anyone is going and doesn't like spoilers...

She's changing the order. The show is live now as I type, she did Lover (no Archer), Fearless, Red, Speak now (one song) and now she's at Reputation. My wild guess: she's gonna merge Folklore and Evermore in a single era, the "in the woods" segment, and make room for some Tortured Poets Department songs.

[MirrorMask]

Show is over, the latest album got in.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/taylor-swift/2024/paris-la-defense-arena-nanterre-france-6baa46ba.html