2021 NFL Thread v. Super Bowl 56: Rams vs Bengals

[Stadler]

If we're going to pound on the military for paid advertisements, then I'm expecting equal outrage and anger the next time half the team is in pink shoes and gloves for breast cancer, or after every game where a player has the  “End Racism,” “Stop Hate,” “It Takes All of Us,” “Black Lives Matter,” “Inspire Change” and “Say Their Stories" (the latter intimating the narrative focus of movements like Critical Race Theory, btw) on their helmets, or any of the other calculated moves the league makes to engender itself with a certain demographic of its fan base. 

[Ben_Jamin]

If we're going to pound on the military for paid advertisements, then I'm expecting equal outrage and anger the next time half the team is in pink shoes and gloves for breast cancer, or after every game where a player has the  “End Racism,” “Stop Hate,” “It Takes All of Us,” “Black Lives Matter,” “Inspire Change” and “Say Their Stories" (the latter intimating the narrative focus of movements like Critical Race Theory, btw) on their helmets, or any of the other calculated moves the league makes to engender itself with a certain demographic of its fan base.

Exactly. It's Sports being used as a means to present ideas and values to the people of a nation. Which is what sports was utilized for throughout the world and in the past centuries.

Only now, the values being presented do not align with the majority of the people. And this is where these things get fun, when the culture clash happens and these Sports turn into games played not just for entertainment, but for the blood of passion.

[Dublagent66]

That must be why they run that commercial over and over again on NFL Network.  "If you could be me and I could be you for just one hour.  Walk a mile in my shoes..."  Nothing but fantasy.  Never gonna happen.  Walking in my own shoes is difficult enough these days.  Get real and stop cramming ridiculous ideas down our throats 20 times a day.

[El Barto]

That must be why they run that commercial over and over again on NFL Network.  "If you could be me and I could be you for just one hour.  Walk a mile in my shoes..."  Nothing but fantasy.  Never gonna happen.  Walking in my own shoes is difficult enough these days.  Get real and stop cramming ridiculous ideas down our throats 20 times a day.

I totally get your objection. It's part of an agenda that is, let's say, problematic. At the same time, walking a mile in another man's shoes is a noble sentiment, and one that everybody should be willing to take to heart. It's hardly a ridiculous idea, and to be honest, your contempt for it points out while it's so necessary in a time when everybody is so damned judgemental.

[hefdaddy42]

If we're going to pound on the military for paid advertisements, then I'm expecting equal outrage and anger the next time half the team is in pink shoes and gloves for breast cancer, or after every game where a player has the  “End Racism,” “Stop Hate,” “It Takes All of Us,” “Black Lives Matter,” “Inspire Change” and “Say Their Stories" (the latter intimating the narrative focus of movements like Critical Race Theory, btw) on their helmets, or any of the other calculated moves the league makes to engender itself with a certain demographic of its fan base.

Well, I will certainly be glad never to see either camo or the color pink on any uniform ever again.

The other things don't fundamentally change the uniform, so I just don't care, although it may be that the time for those things is past.  Are any players still doing that?

[Ben_Jamin]

Would the NFL be as watched if Fantasy Football was outlawed? One fascinating answer would be, possibly not. Removing the gambling aspect of a sport can cause riots.

You could make an argument for NFL being fantasy and scripted in the same way the WWE is fantasy and scripted. All for one main reason, The Entertainment Value of watching NFL or WWE sports matches.

Just take a look at College Football, and it's popularity rising in the last couple of decades, to the point of discussing about paying the College Football Players. 'Paying Players' is an aspect that is part of how a sport became Modernized through bureaucratization from the casual sport origins played not only by those elites that could afford it, but also the poorer lower class workers.

Which then makes one wonder...Why does one watch NFL football? And if you took out that reason, would people still be interested in the sport? What causes one to lose interest in a sport?

I think that would be based on how that sport is being utilized. This would include the ways of incorporating militarism and using the athletes to promote those values/morals to give the citizens a sense of Nationalism. And when the athlete decides not to abide by the regulations set by the league, are then shunned and spit balled out becoming the exiled outcast whose sacrilegious thoughts are tainting the sport, especially utilizing their very own sport media to present that athlete in this light. All you need to look at is how the media shined the light on Kapernick compared to Rodgers.

The sport of NFL is utilized in this very way. It's why I think people are starting to just be more into College Football because all that stuff that they feel taints the NFL is not present in College Football. There was a game a couple weeks ago where they went into 9th Overtime. I'd like to see that happen in the NFL...

[ProfessorPeart]

That sequence that led to the taunting penalty late in last night's game might be the most absurd thing ever in an NFL game.

I get that the taunting penalty is a point of emphasis this year, and that the Bears player should have toned it down a touch after the sack, but no flag was thrown by the official watching it until after the Bears player ran by him and contact was initiated with the official...that the official initiated!!  The official literally stuck his butt out to make contact with the Bears player and then threw the flag.  I didn't watch the game, so I didn't see it until this morning, and I had to watch it twice to make sure that I actually saw it right, and yep, that is actually what happened.  Unreal.

Corrente and his crew were a joke. The guys in the booth continually called out the refs bad calls and their ex-ref booth guy sided with them pretty much every time stating the crew got it wrong. It was like the refs had money on the game. I've always thought Corrente to be one of the worst and he cemented that last night. It's amazing to see the sports world come together on just how bad they were last night. Even non-Bears fans are roasting them. That crew only succeeded in uniting people against them.

[El Barto]

So I don't know about the taunting part; the clips stop kind of quickly. It's hard to tell if he was focused on the Pittsburgh bench, and that kind of matters. Probably shouldn't have been called, though. As for the hip checking, that's nothing. Corrente was clearly trying to get the flag out well before contact was made, so that was definitely not a factor in the penalty. Moreover, Marsh was taking a direct line to the ref, only scooching behind him at the last second. Maybe Corrente put himself further back to make a point, but Marsh shouldn't' have been that close to him in the first place.

[King Postwhore]

So I don't know about the taunting part; the clips stop kind of quickly. It's hard to tell if he was focused on the Pittsburgh bench, and that kind of matters. Probably shouldn't have been called, though. As for the hip checking, that's nothing. Corrente was clearly trying to get the flag out well before contact was made, so that was definitely not a factor in the penalty. Moreover, Marsh was taking a direct line to the ref, only scooching behind him at the last second. Maybe Corrente put himself further back to make a point, but Marsh shouldn't' have been that close to him in the first place.

Especially with so much open space around Corrente.  It looks like he took a path towards the ref.

[Dublagent66]

That must be why they run that commercial over and over again on NFL Network.  "If you could be me and I could be you for just one hour.  Walk a mile in my shoes..."  Nothing but fantasy.  Never gonna happen.  Walking in my own shoes is difficult enough these days.  Get real and stop cramming ridiculous ideas down our throats 20 times a day.

I totally get your objection. It's part of an agenda that is, let's say, problematic. At the same time, walking a mile in another man's shoes is a noble sentiment, and one that everybody should be willing to take to heart. It's hardly a ridiculous idea, and to be honest, your contempt for it points out while it's so necessary in a time when everybody is so damned judgemental.

Well, it becomes ridiculous through repetition.  People get sick of it after a while and that's where the contempt and judgement comes in.  Outside of that, if people would just mind their own goddamn business, it's not problematic in the first place.  Send the message and be done with it.  Constant repetition presents a whole new set of problems.

[hunnus2000]

I have a question that will takes us back a couple of games:

The Vikings won a game where I think Kirk Cousins threw the winning touchdown but as he and Zimmer were celebrating his demeanor changed as if to look pissed at Cousins and it looked like Zimmer was ready to fight.

What happened with this?

[Stadler]

I have a question that will takes us back a couple of games:

The Vikings won a game where I think Kirk Cousins threw the winning touchdown but as he and Zimmer were celebrating his demeanor changed as if to look pissed at Cousins and it looked like Zimmer was ready to fight.

What happened with this?

Is that when Cousins told him he wasn't vaccinated? 

[KevShmev]

How nice of the NFL to fine Rodgers 91 cents (basically) for violating the COVID protocols.

[ReaPsTA]

*Opens NFL thread*

*Sees discussions of racial politics, the history of of how the nation state promotes militarism, and COVID mandates*

*Does not feel guilty about not watching Football anymore*

EDIT: And bad reffing. Part of why I haven't watched NBA in a long time either. I can't stand watching the refs screw up everything all the time anymore. No normal person who works a normal job can be as incompetent at it as sports referees are at theirs it's shocking.

[El Barto]

How nice of the NFL to fine Rodgers 91 cents (basically) for violating the COVID protocols.

They only did that because he started badmouthing them. They were ready to roll over for him at first. 

[King Postwhore]

And yet they dragged Brady through the mud over something they couldn't prove.  Where's the report on PSI that they were supposed to release the year after the insinuation of deflating the balls?

[Ben_Jamin]

*Opens NFL thread*

*Sees discussions of racial politics, the history of of how the nation state promotes militarism, and COVID mandates*

*Does not feel guilty about not watching Football anymore*

EDIT: And bad reffing. Part of why I haven't watched NBA in a long time either. I can't stand watching the refs screw up everything all the time anymore. No normal person who works a normal job can be as incompetent at it as sports referees are at theirs it's shocking.

I don't really blame the refs, more so than the inclusion of more rules that these refs have to know, they have to be basically eagle-eyed to catch them. Then we have commentators making their own opinions on the refs calls using Slow-motion, which stops the games so the refs can see, which creates suspense for the audience.

Which makes me think that they have the refs make these sort of calls, and give them incentive bonuses to create a reaction from the crowd. Which the these sports broadcasters can now spend their entire show discussing, which is the entire point of their shows. Without these controversial calls and discussions, they have no show.

All these work with each other to present the entertainment that is the NFL network. It's a part of the entire entertainment industry model of business. More views, more ratings, more eyes, ears and word of mouth to be discussed.

[El Barto]

I'll reiterate what I've said many times before. If you think that the referees are making calls for ratings, or favoritism, or because they have money on the game, or any other reason not related to the integrity of the game, then stop watching it, FFS. Watch WWF instead where you can see people get "hit" with chairs. If these things are going on then it's not a sporting event, but rather scripted entertainment, and there are better choices out there.

Something else I've said time and time again, the officiating isn't any worse now than it's always been. We're counting on real life human beings to make difficult decisions. Often in realtime, and often with far more complex bases then most of us would realize. Like everything else in the world, missteps are magnified because we can rush to a computer and speculate on what the ref's reason for cheating was. I guarantee you that if the internet was a thing 40 years ago our grandfathers would be bitching about how the officiating is at an all time low, using the exact same language we're seeing right now.

Now for something I haven't said countless times before. We probably need to decide if taunting should be a penalty in the NFL. Personally, I think it should be, I generally dislike their antics (the selfie cam in the endzones annoys me to no end), but there is a compelling reason why it shouldn't be. It's necessary subject to interpretation. It's discretionary on the part of the referee. Either we allow these guys to enforce taunting penalties, and sometimes disagree with them, or we don't and put up with all sorts of silliness. For my part, if I were to abandon the NFL, the childish antics of a bunch of immature millionaires would be a far more likely reason than the occasional bad calls.

[King Postwhore]

I actually think it's harder to referee these days El Barto.  That amount of rules changes they deal with every year is extremely hard  to manage every year.

[KevShmev]

Plus, they are given stupid rules.  My 16-year old nephew is a Bears fan (his mom/my ex-sister in law is from Chicago) and thought the taunting call was bad, and this is what I told him last night, "I agree, but the league is calling it tight, so players have to be smarter.  It's like if you are driving on a road where you know cops will pull you over for going 1 mile over the speed limit.  It sucks if you get pulled over for going 36 in a 35, but you have to adjust to the situation.  Players know that the refs are told to call taunting penalties this year for almost nothing, so tone it down."  My beef was with the official clearly initiating contact with the player.

[cramx3]

If you think the NFL refs are bad, take a look at the college football refs  Good lord, one game they forced PSU to punt on 3rd down and refused to listen to the side umpires or review crew saying it was 3rd not 4th down.  I've never seen such bad officiating.

TBH, I definitely think bias plays a role.  They are humans, but it may not be intentional.  And there's been cases of refs (NBA at least, not entirely sure of NFL) manipulating games due to gambling.  To just throw all that away and think it isn't happening at all is a bit extreme IMO.  Just like it's extreme to just assume people have an ulterior motive immediately. 

The reality is, the refs are human.  They make mistakes, they interpret things differently, and they are also prone to real life feelings and scenarios.  Having said that, I'm not sure at all that the refs are worse today than previously.  I may make the argument they are better than they ever have been, but technology and the rules themselves have made their mistakes much more glaring.  And with social media, it's much harder to hide from your bias' or potential illegal activity so I really don't think that plays much role at all overall.

[ReaPsTA]

In fairness to the many people who have mentioned it, the rules have gotten dumber and harder to enforce.

Which makes me think that they have the refs make these sort of calls, and give them incentive bonuses to create a reaction from the crowd. Which the these sports broadcasters can now spend their entire show discussing, which is the entire point of their shows. Without these controversial calls and discussions, they have no show.

All these work with each other to present the entertainment that is the NFL network. It's a part of the entire entertainment industry model of business. More views, more ratings, more eyes, ears and word of mouth to be discussed.

You can't actually pay the refs bonuses. Would eventually get found out and be a huge scandal.

But look at which refs get assigned to playoffs/Super Bowl games. The best ones? Not necessarily. The ones that call games the way the NFL likes? Absolutely.

Same thing in the NBA. In a just world Tony Brothers would have been fired. The fact he was ever allowed near a playoff or finals game is incomprehensible unless you start looking for deliberate malpractice.

[splent]

The problem with the taunting rule is that it’s completely subjective to what individual refs think taunting is. It’s not universal. Also the line is so fine between normal banter and taunting. There needs to be more consistency if it’s to remain as a rule.

[pg1067]

Article 1 of Section 3 of Rule 12 states as follows:  "There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include . . . (c) Using baiting or taunting acts or words that may engender ill will between teams."

Clear as mud.

[cramx3]

  the rule might as well just say "don't be mean"

[hefdaddy42]

Cam Newton signed with the Panthers.
 
I am not sure how I feel about this.  Obviously, I hope he plays well.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Cam Newton signed with the Panthers.
 
I am not sure how I feel about this.  Obviously, I hope he plays well.

Well I think at this point you know what you have in Sam Darnold, and Cam gave Carolina their best years, so why not give him another shot to bring the Panthers success.

[hunnus2000]

Cam Newton signed with the Panthers.
 
I am not sure how I feel about this.  Obviously, I hope he plays well.

Well I think at this point you know what you have in Sam Darnold, and Cam gave Carolina their best years, so why not give him another shot to bring the Panthers success.

Maybe the ticker on the NFL Network got it wrong but it looks like 1yr 10M dollars? Surly not 10 million dollars. 

[splent]

Cam Newton signed with the Panthers.
 
I am not sure how I feel about this.  Obviously, I hope he plays well.

Well I think at this point you know what you have in Sam Darnold, and Cam gave Carolina their best years, so why not give him another shot to bring the Panthers success.

Maybe the ticker on the NFL Network got it wrong but it looks like 1yr 10M dollars? Surly not 10 million dollars. 

I think it’s $10M potential, like including incentives and stuff. Idk how much is guaranteed tho

[splent]

Article 1 of Section 3 of Rule 12 states as follows:  "There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include . . . (c) Using baiting or taunting acts or words that may engender ill will between teams."

Clear as mud.

Yes but is it clear as far as how far that goes? Like it’s one thing to celebrate but it’s another thing to taunt. There’s a really large gray area there that needs to be made smaller to be refereed objectively

[ReaPsTA]

Article 1 of Section 3 of Rule 12 states as follows:  "There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include . . . (c) Using baiting or taunting acts or words that may engender ill will between teams."

...What's the point of watching sports then?

[El Barto]

Either you're going to allow the refs to make discretionary calls about sportsmanship or you're not. You simply can't legislate every single action a player might come up with. On the one hand I don't want a league where Deion Sander taunting the entire Falcons sideline while returning a pick 6 is a penalty, that was fantastic, but I want a league where the players can behave as ridiculously as they want even less.

[pg1067]

Article 1 of Section 3 of Rule 12 states as follows:  "There shall be no unsportsmanlike conduct. This applies to any act which is contrary to the generally understood principles of sportsmanship. Such acts specifically include . . . (c) Using baiting or taunting acts or words that may engender ill will between teams."

Clear as mud.

Yes but is it clear as far as how far that goes? Like it’s one thing to celebrate but it’s another thing to taunt. There’s a really large gray area there that needs to be made smaller to be refereed objectively

Hence "clear as mud."

Either you're going to allow the refs to make discretionary calls about sportsmanship or you're not. You simply can't legislate every single action a player might come up with. On the one hand I don't want a league where Deion Sander taunting the entire Falcons sideline while returning a pick 6 is a penalty, that was fantastic, but I want a league where the players can behave as ridiculously as they want even less.

Exactly.  There has to be a huge amount of discretion with something like this.  The problem is that (1) the "point of emphasis" has gone WAY over the edge, and (2) football is the only major sport where this sort of call can materially impact the game.  Gain 30 yards to get into field goal range with 5 seconds left on the clock...and...get called for taunting and get pushed back 15 yards, out of field goal range.  You were all set to kick a 50-yard game-winning field goal but now have to choose between trying a 65 yard field goal or running a "Hail Mary" play.

[Stadler]

I actually think it's harder to referee these days El Barto.  That amount of rules changes they deal with every year is extremely hard  to manage every year.

Almost every player who comments on it will tell you the game gets faster and faster each year.   That too plays into the ability of refs to keep up with the game.

[hefdaddy42]

Cam Newton signed with the Panthers.
 
I am not sure how I feel about this.  Obviously, I hope he plays well.

Well I think at this point you know what you have in Sam Darnold, and Cam gave Carolina their best years, so why not give him another shot to bring the Panthers success.

Maybe the ticker on the NFL Network got it wrong but it looks like 1yr 10M dollars? Surly not 10 million dollars. 

What I saw was 4.5 guaranteed.