Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread

[HOF]

I love Neal, even though at this point I probably only like about half of his catalog of music. There’s plenty in the half I do like to last a lifetime though. Was just spinning his first solo album again today and it is so good.

[Peter Mc]

Got to say I’ve enjoyed all three singles released quite a bit.  I’d say more than most recent NM related albums (including Transatlantic) so I’m very much looking forward to the new album.  More than I have been for a while with NM.  Not that I haven’t enjoyed the recent albums when I got them, I’m just talking about how the singles made me feel pre-release.

Well, in my opinion, the last two NMB albums (The Great Adventure and The Similitude Of A Dream) were much stronger than the last two TA albums (Kaleidoscope and The Absolute Universe). That had me excited for the new NMB album even though I wasn't crazy about the last prog album Neal was "involved" with (The Absolute Universe).

Agreed, I’m just saying that the singles released for those albums pre-release didn’t do much for me.  The albums themselves were excellent.  I like these singles more.  Doesn’t mean I’ll like the album more though.

[Dedalus]

I didn't give a shit about the first two singles, but I liked Your Place in the Sun.
Nice song. 

[Architeuthis]

I didn't give a shit about the first two singles, but I liked Your Place in the Sun.
Nice song. 

Just the opposite for me. I really liked the first two singles, but this one sounds more like a TV show theme reeking of the Beatles at the end of the chorus.  It might grow on me kind of like Vanity Square..

[KevShmev]

I was thinking about this in the car yesterday; Neal Morse is on a friggin' ROLL, and he may actually be my favorite artist right now.  I've been sort of juggling between Transatlantic and NMB over the last couple weeks and I don't see it waning any time soon.  It's just music that makes me feel GOOD.

For sure.  Even though I get burned out him at times because there is just so much, it's a blessing (no pun intended) to be such a big fan of artist who is this prolific and who usually releases material that is usually such high quality.  I can say the same thing for other modern favorites like Steven Wilson and Devin Townsend (not looking to litigate those two, for anyone who disagrees ).  When I look at the other favorites in what I kind of consider my all-time top tier, while some are retired (Rush, Floyd) and others are still releasing good material but not stuff that rivals their best anymore (DT, Flower Kings), Neal is one of the few still releasing music at a consistently high level.

[Dedalus]

I didn't give a shit about the first two singles, but I liked Your Place in the Sun.
Nice song. 

Just the opposite for me. I really liked the first two singles, but this one sounds more like a TV show theme reeking of the Beatles at the end of the chorus.  It might grow on me kind of like Vanity Square..

Yes it sounds. 

And that's why I liked it.

[Stadler]

I was thinking about this in the car yesterday; Neal Morse is on a friggin' ROLL, and he may actually be my favorite artist right now.  I've been sort of juggling between Transatlantic and NMB over the last couple weeks and I don't see it waning any time soon.  It's just music that makes me feel GOOD.

For sure.  Even though I get burned out him at times because there is just so much, it's a blessing (no pun intended) to be such a big fan of artist who is this prolific and who usually releases material that is usually such high quality.  I can say the same thing for other modern favorites like Steven Wilson and Devin Townsend (not looking to litigate those two, for anyone who disagrees ).  When I look at the other favorites in what I kind of consider my all-time top tier, while some are retired (Rush, Floyd) and others are still releasing good material but not stuff that rivals their best anymore (DT, Flower Kings), Neal is one of the few still releasing music at a consistently high level.

We'll see over time, but legit, I&D has the POTENTIAL to be my favorite Neal album.  After 284 albums with him, his latest is potentially the best. That's insane.

[bosk1]

I was thinking about this in the car yesterday; Neal Morse is on a friggin' ROLL, and he may actually be my favorite artist right now.  I've been sort of juggling between Transatlantic and NMB over the last couple weeks and I don't see it waning any time soon.  It's just music that makes me feel GOOD.

For sure.  Even though I get burned out him at times because there is just so much, it's a blessing (no pun intended) to be such a big fan of artist who is this prolific and who usually releases material that is usually such high quality.  I can say the same thing for other modern favorites like Steven Wilson and Devin Townsend (not looking to litigate those two, for anyone who disagrees ).  When I look at the other favorites in what I kind of consider my all-time top tier, while some are retired (Rush, Floyd) and others are still releasing good material but not stuff that rivals their best anymore (DT, Flower Kings), Neal is one of the few still releasing music at a consistently high level.

I agree with both sides of that.  I LOVE that he is such a prolific writer, and that the quality is always there.  But at times, yeah, it can feel almost overwhelming trying to keep up.

Not a fan of the other two you mentioned.  But having at least heard some of Devin Townsend's stuff, I can confidently say that, even though a lot of it falls into "not for me" territory, he is all-in when it comes to putting his all and his creativity into everything he does.  I can certainly respect and appreciate his work, even if it isn't my thing.

[bosk1]

I was thinking about this in the car yesterday; Neal Morse is on a friggin' ROLL, and he may actually be my favorite artist right now.  I've been sort of juggling between Transatlantic and NMB over the last couple weeks and I don't see it waning any time soon.  It's just music that makes me feel GOOD.

For sure.  Even though I get burned out him at times because there is just so much, it's a blessing (no pun intended) to be such a big fan of artist who is this prolific and who usually releases material that is usually such high quality.  I can say the same thing for other modern favorites like Steven Wilson and Devin Townsend (not looking to litigate those two, for anyone who disagrees ).  When I look at the other favorites in what I kind of consider my all-time top tier, while some are retired (Rush, Floyd) and others are still releasing good material but not stuff that rivals their best anymore (DT, Flower Kings), Neal is one of the few still releasing music at a consistently high level.

We'll see over time, but legit, I&D has the POTENTIAL to be my favorite Neal album.  After 284 albums with him, his latest is potentially the best. That's insane.

To me, he has an insanely high bar to clear to even get into my top 3.  But if he comes close, that's awesome.  Looking forward to hearing this one.

[KevShmev]

Well, every album Neal releases, from any of his projects, has the potential to be my favorite by him given how strong his track record is, but it is hard to imagine him/his bands topping (for me) Similitude, SMPTe or The Whirlwind. 

It's funny because I did the below thread just 2 1/2 years ago, and Bridge Across Forever was my number 1 then, but has since been "demoted."  I still love it, and it would still probably be top 5, but I just listen to three above more as time rolls on.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53368.105

[Stadler]

I was thinking about this in the car yesterday; Neal Morse is on a friggin' ROLL, and he may actually be my favorite artist right now.  I've been sort of juggling between Transatlantic and NMB over the last couple weeks and I don't see it waning any time soon.  It's just music that makes me feel GOOD.

For sure.  Even though I get burned out him at times because there is just so much, it's a blessing (no pun intended) to be such a big fan of artist who is this prolific and who usually releases material that is usually such high quality.  I can say the same thing for other modern favorites like Steven Wilson and Devin Townsend (not looking to litigate those two, for anyone who disagrees ).  When I look at the other favorites in what I kind of consider my all-time top tier, while some are retired (Rush, Floyd) and others are still releasing good material but not stuff that rivals their best anymore (DT, Flower Kings), Neal is one of the few still releasing music at a consistently high level.

We'll see over time, but legit, I&D has the POTENTIAL to be my favorite Neal album.  After 284 albums with him, his latest is potentially the best. That's insane.

To me, he has an insanely high bar to clear to even get into my top 3.  But if he comes close, that's awesome.  Looking forward to hearing this one.

I can understand and appreciate that.  I'm just awed that it seems as if the capacity is still there.  Does anyone think the next Kiss album will be the best ever?  Or the next AC/DC album?  Or the next Yes album?   I got the new Cheap Trick and it's REALLY good, and I want to go see them again as a result, but is it Heaven Tonight or Dream Police?   Nah.  It's just good solid hard rock.  Other than maybe Rival Sons, Neal's sort of the last bastion FOR ME of artists that are still tapping into something profound.   (I certainly get that that may not be the case for others; it's a "me" problem, as they say).

[bosk1]

insanely high bar to clear

the next Kiss album

Wow, talk about those things that could not be at farther ends of the spectrum. 

[Stadler]

insanely high bar to clear

the next Kiss album

Wow, talk about those things that could not be at farther ends of the spectrum. 

Wait, what?   

[ronnibran]

I'm sure I'm in the small minority, but the new song "Your Place in the Sun" and songs like that ("Vanity Fair", Ways of a Fool", etc) do nothing but annoy me lol.  I'm sure in the context of the album I'll enjoy it fine in the song to song flow.

That said, it's not taking away from my excitement for the album.  If nothing else, I am assuming the two epics alone will make the entire double album worth it.  The other epic by NMB, Alive Again, is amazing.  The ending has possibly my favorite few minutes of recorded music ever ("the wounded warrior with no temporary shelter....").  Goosebumps and/or choked up every time I listen and try to sing along to the whole part beginning there.

[425]

Your Place in the Sun was a nice song. It's not one of those that's really a standout on its own, but I imagine it will work well in the context. The one it reminded me most of was actually Shortcut to Salvation, although it's hard for me to say exactly why.

It also had the best music video of the three. Although that's not an exceptionally high bar, it did show that they can produce something that looks decent on their budget.

[KevShmev]

I listened to the song twice, once with the video and once without, and enjoyed it a lot more without the video. I think the video is so distractingly mediocre that it distracted me a bit from the music, because I did my second listen without it and it sounded way better.

Note to self: avoid all NMB videos going forward. 

[darkshade]

Neal does deliver. If you didn't know any of his music and put on pretty much any of his main albums since 2008, (where some people feel he started sounding samey) it's still some very powerful music.

Judging by the comments, I'm glad I'm holding off on listening to the singles. Neal knows how to put together an album. His music is best appreciated listening to the full album, because they are often structured that way. Because he has made so many types of songs, singles may also not be representative of the entire album experience.

[KevShmev]

I think a big part of the samey-ness is that his albums always sound so similar production and mixing-wise.  Don't get me wrong, Rich Mouser has done a mostly outstanding job on Neal, and Neal-related, albums since 2000 (there are a few I wish sounded a little better, but those were likely stylistic choices rather than missteps on his part), but with so many albums and almost all of them having similar mixes, it kind of adds to the samey-ness factor.  Throw in as well that Neal works with some of the same musicians across multiple bands/projects as well.
For example, had Neal done Sola Gratia last year, but used NDV on drums, a different bass player, and a different guitarist to do the solo spot in the 2nd to last song, it likely could have sounded quite a bit different from his normal prog concept albums, even if the album format and structure was more of the same.

[darkshade]

I think a big part of the samey-ness is that his albums always sound so similar production and mixing-wise.  Don't get me wrong, Rich Mouser has done a mostly outstanding job on Neal, and Neal-related, albums since 2000 (there are a few I wish sounded a little better, but those were likely stylistic choices rather than missteps on his part), but with so many albums and almost all of them having similar mixes, it kind of adds to the samey-ness factor.  Throw in as well that Neal works with some of the same musicians across multiple bands/projects as well.
For example, had Neal done Sola Gratia last year, but used NDV on drums, a different bass player, and a different guitarist to do the solo spot in the 2nd to last song, it likely could have sounded quite a bit different from his normal prog concept albums, even if the album format and structure was more of the same.

Agreed about the production and mix, as well as there being similar personnel throughout most of his albums. I haven't listened to The Exorcist yet, but I've read it still sounds overwhelmingly like Neal Morse music, despite MP not being on it, and with a range of various musicians.  I think Neal doesn't desire to leave his comfort zone too much, composition-wise. He also uses the same keyboard patches and effects, and doesn't really expand his sound stylistically. The blueprint for his entire world of music was pretty much set on The Light, and solidified by V and SMPTe.

This is why NMB is very good for Neal, because even though George and Portnoy are there, there are some differences between their albums and Neal's solo albums, but NMB would be much more different if RG and MP weren't there and it was other musicians. Maybe.

[KevShmev]

Portnoy not being on The Exorcist didn't really alter the sound because the drums were played by Gillette, whose drumming style is very much in the style of Portnoy's (similar to how his guitar style is very much in the style of Petrucci's).

Agreed about the keyboard patches and sounds.  It feels like Transatlantic is the one project where Neal sometimes whips out different sounds, and I always think, why doesn't he do that in his other bands? 

[KevShmev]

Interesting review, and I will copy and paste the last part of it below.

https://thedarkmelody.com/neal-morse-band-nmb-innocence-danger-album-review/?fbclid=IwAR0SUoVJqNY9GxsZxlu1npwAjuD3URxWO64FHWIY3dIUintCojOdgH-zsyE

I am going to make a final reflection on what is happening to me lately with Neal and all his projects, obviously taking “Innocence & Danger” as a reference. At the time of the "Similitude of a Dream" I declared NMB as my new favorite band , a feeling that I maintained throughout the years and with each foray of the master and his henchmen. This feeling has been diminishing in the last year, seeing that every time I am moved and less mobilized than before by the proposal to which its parameters are governed . I speak not only at the level of the NMB , but also their solo albums, Transatlantic and (to a lesser extent) Flying Colors . Is this a bad thing? It depends, the music ofNeal Morse is still amazing, built with precision and achieving quality standards that many bands would dream of achieving. But the mobilizing factor is being lost and that worries me in the long run.

I think the board needs to be shaken drastically going forward. We don't need 10 emotional climaxes in a single album, because each one is losing intensity with respect to the previous one, and that is exactly what happens to me with “Innocence & Danger” . I remember the epic finale of “Broken Sky / Long Day Reprise” on TSOAD and it still makes my skin shiver just thinking about it. That feeling has wanted to be replicated in each subsequent release, and the impact is less and less. I just do this as a self-analysis of my fanaticism for everything Neal does, making myself more objective and realizing that the excitement is waning.

“ Innocence & Danger” is a superb album but it does set off some alarms for the future , not just for the NMB , but for the entire Morse-Portnoy formula . This can be attributed to the avalanche of releases that have been given one after another, of which we do not complain, always under the mantra "more never is enough" , but surely we want more and more and more of the same?I leave open the question and the call for reflection, taking us away from the excessive fanaticism and looking at it more objectively in the global spectrum of current music. That said, let's keep celebrating that this ensemble of musicians is still at the top of the mountain (or are they descending?) And let's enjoy one of the great Prog albums of the year.

---

Some very fair points. a few of which I have touched on a bit in a roundabout way more than once.

Regarding the emotional climaxes thing, I totally get what he means.  Even though A Love That Never Dies is a killer finale on The Great Adventure, I find that it sounds a lot better when I listen to on its own rather than when hearing the whole album.  When it's the whole album, by the time I get to it, I feel like I've heard that emotional climax numerous times already (more than a few of us have joked over the years about how many times the main theme in that song is repeated over the course of the album), albeit the finale delivers it in a more epic and sweeping manner.  On the flip side, while the themes reprised in Broken Sky/Long Day (reprise) had been heard prior, we hadn't been beaten over the head with them, so the climax is that much more satisfying as a result, IMO. 

Also, take the Disc 1 finales from each album.  Disc 1 of Similitude ends with Breath of Angels, a new song with new ideas that you really don't hear again, yet is a nice little "we are halfway there!" climax.  Disc 1 of The Great Adventure ends with Beyond the Borders, a song built entirely around the "A Love That Never Dies" theme, thus the impact of it is a bit lost and it feels like the album kind of limps its way into halftime.  I noticed that when I saw the album performed live as well. 

Not trying to pick up on The Great Adventure, an album I do like a lot, but I think the writer of that review makes some great points, and that particular one struck a chord with me because of the points I just made.

[King Postwhore]

You know what?  That's Neal.  I have no problem with his climatic endings of songs.   I actually look forward to it.

If you want something different,  there are so many other bands to draw off of. That's what makes music great.

When I'm in a certain mood,  I reach for a certain artist.   What a surprise.

[KevShmev]

No, no, they need to do what we want!!

(in reality, I hope they never listen to what the fans want and just keep doing whatever they want)

[RoeDent]

Disc 1 of The Great Adventure ends with Beyond the Borders, a song built entirely around the "A Love That Never Dies" theme, thus the impact of it is a bit lost and it feels like the album kind of limps its way into halftime.  I noticed that when I saw the album performed live as well. 

Beyond the Borders is no Breath of Angels, for sure. But I don't think it's built around the "Love That Never Dies" theme. For me, that theme is "And oh, through the flood and through the fire..." - that chorus, because it dominates the song A Love That Never Dies. Beyond the Borders has two major themes in its vocals, the Narration theme (also used in A Momentary Change, the end of I Got to Run and elsewhere) with the addition of the "Whoa-oh" buildup, then what I simply call the Beyond the Borders theme in the chorus.

As for Neal's emotional climaxes, I have a theory, based on what little I've heard. I say this because for me the ending of Transatlantic's album (Forevermore version, if that matters) didn't land as well as the climaxes to Similitude and TGA. And I wonder how much of that is down to the fact that he gives those climaxes to Eric Gillette to sing. In those moments, on both Broken Sky/Long Day (reprise) and A Love That Never Dies, Eric's singing is so powerful and moving, it's wonderful!

Whilst I'm here...new album talk. Pre-ordered it ready for next week. I am curious whether Innocence and Danger will end up on Spotify, unlike his other albums. I have 2 points to back this: 1. The new album is on InsideOut instead of Neal's own label Radiant. And 2, all three singles were released on Spotify.

And as is tradition with bands with a small-enough discography for me to cope with, I'm going to discog-run the 3 NMB albums building up to next Friday.

[darkshade]

Less than one week til release day.

[Stadler]

Interesting review, and I will copy and paste the last part of it below.

https://thedarkmelody.com/neal-morse-band-nmb-innocence-danger-album-review/?fbclid=IwAR0SUoVJqNY9GxsZxlu1npwAjuD3URxWO64FHWIY3dIUintCojOdgH-zsyE

I am going to make a final reflection on what is happening to me lately with Neal and all his projects, obviously taking “Innocence & Danger” as a reference. At the time of the "Similitude of a Dream" I declared NMB as my new favorite band , a feeling that I maintained throughout the years and with each foray of the master and his henchmen. This feeling has been diminishing in the last year, seeing that every time I am moved and less mobilized than before by the proposal to which its parameters are governed . I speak not only at the level of the NMB , but also their solo albums, Transatlantic and (to a lesser extent) Flying Colors . Is this a bad thing? It depends, the music ofNeal Morse is still amazing, built with precision and achieving quality standards that many bands would dream of achieving. But the mobilizing factor is being lost and that worries me in the long run.

I think the board needs to be shaken drastically going forward. We don't need 10 emotional climaxes in a single album, because each one is losing intensity with respect to the previous one, and that is exactly what happens to me with “Innocence & Danger” . I remember the epic finale of “Broken Sky / Long Day Reprise” on TSOAD and it still makes my skin shiver just thinking about it. That feeling has wanted to be replicated in each subsequent release, and the impact is less and less. I just do this as a self-analysis of my fanaticism for everything Neal does, making myself more objective and realizing that the excitement is waning.

“ Innocence & Danger” is a superb album but it does set off some alarms for the future , not just for the NMB , but for the entire Morse-Portnoy formula . This can be attributed to the avalanche of releases that have been given one after another, of which we do not complain, always under the mantra "more never is enough" , but surely we want more and more and more of the same?I leave open the question and the call for reflection, taking us away from the excessive fanaticism and looking at it more objectively in the global spectrum of current music. That said, let's keep celebrating that this ensemble of musicians is still at the top of the mountain (or are they descending?) And let's enjoy one of the great Prog albums of the year.

---

Some very fair points. a few of which I have touched on a bit in a roundabout way more than once.

Regarding the emotional climaxes thing, I totally get what he means.  Even though A Love That Never Dies is a killer finale on The Great Adventure, I find that it sounds a lot better when I listen to on its own rather than when hearing the whole album.  When it's the whole album, by the time I get to it, I feel like I've heard that emotional climax numerous times already (more than a few of us have joked over the years about how many times the main theme in that song is repeated over the course of the album), albeit the finale delivers it in a more epic and sweeping manner.  On the flip side, while the themes reprised in Broken Sky/Long Day (reprise) had been heard prior, we hadn't been beaten over the head with them, so the climax is that much more satisfying as a result, IMO. 

Also, take the Disc 1 finales from each album.  Disc 1 of Similitude ends with Breath of Angels, a new song with new ideas that you really don't hear again, yet is a nice little "we are halfway there!" climax.  Disc 1 of The Great Adventure ends with Beyond the Borders, a song built entirely around the "A Love That Never Dies" theme, thus the impact of it is a bit lost and it feels like the album kind of limps its way into halftime.  I noticed that when I saw the album performed live as well. 

Not trying to pick up on The Great Adventure, an album I do like a lot, but I think the writer of that review makes some great points, and that particular one struck a chord with me because of the points I just made.

I mean this with the utmost respect, since it's all opinions and we're all entitled to think as we think, but I can't disagree with that first bolded opinion enough.   That is literally 360⁰* opposite where I'm at with the new album.  I think they've refined the "epic ending" thing to a T.   I'm not kidding, I think they've been getting better and better and this has the potential to be my favorite Neal work of all.

[The Letter M]

I mean this with the utmost respect, since it's all opinions and we're all entitled to think as we think, but I can't disagree with that first bolded opinion enough.   That is literally 360⁰* opposite where I'm at with the new album. I think they've refined the "epic ending" thing to a T.   I'm not kidding, I think they've been getting better and better and this has the potential to be my favorite Neal work of all.

If it's 360 degrees, it's back where you are. If you meant opposite of you, I think you mean 180 degrees. 

-Marc.

[Dedalus]

Interesting review, and I will copy and paste the last part of it below.

https://thedarkmelody.com/neal-morse-band-nmb-innocence-danger-album-review/?fbclid=IwAR0SUoVJqNY9GxsZxlu1npwAjuD3URxWO64FHWIY3dIUintCojOdgH-zsyE

I am going to make a final reflection on what is happening to me lately with Neal and all his projects, obviously taking “Innocence & Danger” as a reference. At the time of the "Similitude of a Dream" I declared NMB as my new favorite band , a feeling that I maintained throughout the years and with each foray of the master and his henchmen. This feeling has been diminishing in the last year, seeing that every time I am moved and less mobilized than before by the proposal to which its parameters are governed . I speak not only at the level of the NMB , but also their solo albums, Transatlantic and (to a lesser extent) Flying Colors . Is this a bad thing? It depends, the music ofNeal Morse is still amazing, built with precision and achieving quality standards that many bands would dream of achieving. But the mobilizing factor is being lost and that worries me in the long run.

I think the board needs to be shaken drastically going forward. We don't need 10 emotional climaxes in a single album, because each one is losing intensity with respect to the previous one, and that is exactly what happens to me with “Innocence & Danger” . I remember the epic finale of “Broken Sky / Long Day Reprise” on TSOAD and it still makes my skin shiver just thinking about it. That feeling has wanted to be replicated in each subsequent release, and the impact is less and less. I just do this as a self-analysis of my fanaticism for everything Neal does, making myself more objective and realizing that the excitement is waning.

“ Innocence & Danger” is a superb album but it does set off some alarms for the future , not just for the NMB , but for the entire Morse-Portnoy formula . This can be attributed to the avalanche of releases that have been given one after another, of which we do not complain, always under the mantra "more never is enough" , but surely we want more and more and more of the same?I leave open the question and the call for reflection, taking us away from the excessive fanaticism and looking at it more objectively in the global spectrum of current music. That said, let's keep celebrating that this ensemble of musicians is still at the top of the mountain (or are they descending?) And let's enjoy one of the great Prog albums of the year.

---

Some very fair points. a few of which I have touched on a bit in a roundabout way more than once.

Regarding the emotional climaxes thing, I totally get what he means.  Even though A Love That Never Dies is a killer finale on The Great Adventure, I find that it sounds a lot better when I listen to on its own rather than when hearing the whole album.  When it's the whole album, by the time I get to it, I feel like I've heard that emotional climax numerous times already (more than a few of us have joked over the years about how many times the main theme in that song is repeated over the course of the album), albeit the finale delivers it in a more epic and sweeping manner.  On the flip side, while the themes reprised in Broken Sky/Long Day (reprise) had been heard prior, we hadn't been beaten over the head with them, so the climax is that much more satisfying as a result, IMO. 

Also, take the Disc 1 finales from each album.  Disc 1 of Similitude ends with Breath of Angels, a new song with new ideas that you really don't hear again, yet is a nice little "we are halfway there!" climax.  Disc 1 of The Great Adventure ends with Beyond the Borders, a song built entirely around the "A Love That Never Dies" theme, thus the impact of it is a bit lost and it feels like the album kind of limps its way into halftime.  I noticed that when I saw the album performed live as well. 

Not trying to pick up on The Great Adventure, an album I do like a lot, but I think the writer of that review makes some great points, and that particular one struck a chord with me because of the points I just made.

Interesting. This issue (Neal Morse formula) has been discussed by fans for maybe a decade now, but I don't recall it appearing in any review of albums involving Neal Morse (which, let's face it, are always VERY supportive).
Finally some reviewer noticed.

[KevShmev]

I mean this with the utmost respect, since it's all opinions and we're all entitled to think as we think, but I can't disagree with that first bolded opinion enough.   That is literally 360⁰* opposite where I'm at with the new album.  I think they've refined the "epic ending" thing to a T.   I'm not kidding, I think they've been getting better and better and this has the potential to be my favorite Neal work of all.

Six days...can't wait to get it and hear it.  Despite the nits I pick at times , I still eat up almost everything Neal releases like crazy, and I am sure this one will be no different.   

Interesting. This issue (Neal Morse formula) has been discussed by fans for maybe a decade now, but I don't recall it appearing in any review of albums involving Neal Morse (which, let's face it, are always VERY supportive).
Finally some reviewer noticed.

Well, the prog community is very much a niche one, and I suspect many of those reviewers do not want to lose access to future albums, interviews and whatnot, so it is always in their best interest to give positive reviews to the albums/projects of certain musicians. I will leave it at that.

[Stadler]

THat's the second time that thought has come up; as someone who has done reviews, I can say that the thought is always there.  I'm not one of those people that gets off on slagging things I don't like or don't understand.  I can't imagine me ever writing a review like a Dave Marsh or one of those guys that seemingly gets off on distancing themselves from the popular.  The idea, I believe, is putting yourself in the context of what the ARTIST is truing to achieve, not what I want to hear.

Having said that, if there IS a criticism about a band or artist, there are ways of voicing that, or expressing that, without coming off as a douche or burning bridges.   If the "staleness" of the epic ending were a real issue, I cannot believe that a skilled reviewer couldn't have put that issue on the table before now in such a way that wouldn't "blacklist" that reviewer moving forward.

And there's the more straightforward point:  just because reviewers haven't embraced YOUR particular point of view - which isn't an objective given - doesn't mean they were thinking it and suppressed it.  I haven't seen the wisdom of the "Kurt Cobain as God" line of reasoning for quite some time, and very, very few articles deviate from that wisdom; I've come to grips that it's my opinion, and not a legion of music journalists who are scared of the wrath of Courtney Love. 

[KevShmev]

THat's the second time that thought has come up; as someone who has done reviews, I can say that the thought is always there.  I'm not one of those people that gets off on slagging things I don't like or don't understand.  I can't imagine me ever writing a review like a Dave Marsh or one of those guys that seemingly gets off on distancing themselves from the popular.  The idea, I believe, is putting yourself in the context of what the ARTIST is truing to achieve, not what I want to hear.

Having said that, if there IS a criticism about a band or artist, there are ways of voicing that, or expressing that, without coming off as a douche or burning bridges.   If the "staleness" of the epic ending were a real issue, I cannot believe that a skilled reviewer couldn't have put that issue on the table before now in such a way that wouldn't "blacklist" that reviewer moving forward.

And there's the more straightforward point:  just because reviewers haven't embraced YOUR particular point of view - which isn't an objective given - doesn't mean they were thinking it and suppressed it.  I haven't seen the wisdom of the "Kurt Cobain as God" line of reasoning for quite some time, and very, very few articles deviate from that wisdom; I've come to grips that it's my opinion, and not a legion of music journalists who are scared of the wrath of Courtney Love. 

Well, it sure does help that, despite the formulaic nature of many of them, Neal's epics are almost always, at the very worst, very good, and, more often than not, they are great. 

If we can, for the sake of simplicity and the purposes of this discussion, call any single track from a studio album that is 20 minutes or longer an epic, these are Neal's that have been officially released to date from any of his bands/projects (the two new NMB ones are not officially released yet, so I am not listing those):

The Water
The Great Nothing
The Door
The Conflict
So Many Roads
Seeds of Gold
World Without End
Alive Again
All of the Above
Duel with the Devil
Stranger in Your Soul
In the Blue
Kaleidoscope

Not a single dud in the bunch.  13 total, and even the ones that are the least best there I would say still are quite good.  And in the annals of favorite 20-minute plus songs ever, if I had to do a list of my favorite 20 or 25 ever,  I suspect five or six would come from that list (maybe one or two more, not sure).  I doubt any other single artist would have that many. 

In other words, keep the epics coming, Neal. 

[devieira73]

... and the excellent SB's Falling for Forever!

[Kram]

THat's the second time that thought has come up; as someone who has done reviews, I can say that the thought is always there.  I'm not one of those people that gets off on slagging things I don't like or don't understand.  I can't imagine me ever writing a review like a Dave Marsh or one of those guys that seemingly gets off on distancing themselves from the popular.  The idea, I believe, is putting yourself in the context of what the ARTIST is truing to achieve, not what I want to hear.

Having said that, if there IS a criticism about a band or artist, there are ways of voicing that, or expressing that, without coming off as a douche or burning bridges.   If the "staleness" of the epic ending were a real issue, I cannot believe that a skilled reviewer couldn't have put that issue on the table before now in such a way that wouldn't "blacklist" that reviewer moving forward.

And there's the more straightforward point:  just because reviewers haven't embraced YOUR particular point of view - which isn't an objective given - doesn't mean they were thinking it and suppressed it.  I haven't seen the wisdom of the "Kurt Cobain as God" line of reasoning for quite some time, and very, very few articles deviate from that wisdom; I've come to grips that it's my opinion, and not a legion of music journalists who are scared of the wrath of Courtney Love. 

Well, it sure does help that, despite the formulaic nature of many of them, Neal's epics are almost always, at the very worst, very good, and, more often than not, they are great. 

If we can, for the sake of simplicity and the purposes of this discussion, call any single track from a studio album that is 20 minutes or longer an epic, these are Neal's that have been officially released to date from any of his bands/projects (the two new NMB ones are not officially released yet, so I am not listing those):

The Water
The Great Nothing
The Door
The Conflict
So Many Roads
Seeds of Gold
World Without End
Alive Again
All of the Above
Duel with the Devil
Stranger in Your Soul
In the Blue
Kaleidoscope

Not a single dud in the bunch.  13 total, and even the ones that are the least best there I would say still are quite good.  And in the annals of favorite 20-minute plus songs ever, if I had to do a list of my favorite 20 or 25 ever,  I suspect five or six would come from that list (maybe one or two more, not sure).  I doubt any other single artist would have that many. 

In other words, keep the epics coming, Neal. 

Yep.  Few, if any, can compare to Neal when it comes to "Epics" - IMO

[KevShmev]

... and the excellent SB's Falling for Forever!

Dang it, I always forget about that one.   Probably my least favorite of the whole bunch, which is why I never think about it.  Oops. 

 Few, if any, can compare to Neal when it comes to "Epics" - IMO

Agreed.  When you stand back and look at his catalogue as a whole and take it all in, it's quite unreal. 

[Kram]

... and the excellent SB's Falling for Forever!

Dang it, I always forget about that one.   Probably my least favorite of the whole bunch, which is why I never think about it.  Oops. 

 Few, if any, can compare to Neal when it comes to "Epics" - IMO

Agreed.  When you stand back and look at his catalogue as a whole and take it all in, it's quite unreal. 

Agreed.  He's definitely in my top 5 (maybe top 3) artists/bands of all time!