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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: AboutToCrash on April 25, 2020, 08:22:38 AM
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A lot of people have a favourite song of all time. With so many artists in the world and 80 odd years of recorded music to pick from has DT for you personally written a track that you consider greater than them all? In my listening experience Breaking All Illusions to me is the greatest song ever written. It has everything, musically and lyrically phenomenal and it really connects with me on a personal level (before BAI was written Octavarium was #1). Please let me know if DT has done the same for you, if so I’d be interested to know what song it is!
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Almost certainly, though it would be hard to choose which one. If it were an album, I consider Scenes From a Memory to be the best thing ever recorded. But for a single song? Very tough call. Maybe Finally Free, Metropolis Pt. 1, Scarred, or Dissappear, for me.
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I'd say it's Learning To Live. It has everyting what progressive music has to have. Plus there is an iconic vocal moment very well-known by the music community.
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For me it is Octavarium. It used to be Master of Puppets, until I discovered DT and then Octavarium. It is such a unique song, There is nothing like it. It builds to a fantastic climax, a curiosity about what it means, and just so many interesting layers. Every time I listen I feel like there is more that I could figure out about it. It never gets old.
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The last five minutes of Octavarium is the most epic music ever written.
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No. There is no "greatest", only favourites.
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No. There is no "greatest", only favourites.
:tup
Definitely agree with this standpoint.
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This is all subjective of course, and yes we are talking about favorites more than objectively saying something is THE best, but while DT doesn't have my favorite all-time song, if I had to do a top 25 or 30, DT would probably have three in there (Voices, Scarred and Learning to Live). This is of course based on my own personal tastes.
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Octavarium, illumination Theory, The Bigger Picture, and Barstool Warrior all quality as far as I'm concerned.
There are more songs to mention but I didn't want to get carried away. :)
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My favorite DT song is A Change of Seasons. It has everything in it that I like in music. To me, it's my favorite piece of music.
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Music is so subjective, and there are so many different and uncomparable genres, that it's kinda hard to have a single favorite song to be considered "greatest of all time".
I can tell, echoing some of the posts before me, that I can call Scenes from a Memory my "favorite album ever", but then again it's an honorary title because:
- I heard it in my formative years of my tastes in music
- I had the immense surpise of seeing it in the store without knowing anything about before, huge surprise
- It is actually a mindblowingly and godly awesome album
But I claim it's my "favorite album ever" because of those reasons, the memories associated with it, it's not that I listen to it regularly after 20 years, this year I heard it exactly once, and it was when it was played live at my concert.
I can also agree that the ending of Octavarium, especially live, gives goosebumps, and all in all my personal favorite DT song is Metropolis (podium is completed by A Change of Seasons and Voices). But I can't bring myself to take it to the next level and label any song as the "greatest of all time".
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For me it is Octavarium. It used to be Master of Puppets, until I discovered DT and then Octavarium. It is such a unique song, There is nothing like it. It builds to a fantastic climax, a curiosity about what it means, and just so many interesting layers. Every time I listen I feel like there is more that I could figure out about it. It never gets old.
I came here to write exactly this. Like word for word lol.
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Metropolis Pt. 1
The perfect song.
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Learning To Live is my #1 song of all time.
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ACOS has been my favorite piece of music ever written since it came out. Nothing even comes close.
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ACOS has been my favorite piece of music ever written since it came out. Nothing even comes close.
I do think there's a couple songs that come close, but I definitely agree with you otherwise.
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Learning To Live is my #1 song of all time.
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No, although Learning To Live is the closest for me, which is somewhere in my top 5.
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Learning To Live is my #1 song of all time.
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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time. Space-Dye Vest is probably my favorite song in general. I'm one of those people.
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I used to be a Metropolis Pt. 1 kind of guy as far as my favorite DT song, but these days I lean towards LTL, and Scarred not too far behind. As far as it being my favorite song of all time? I would say no, but it comes close relatively speaking. It would land in my top 50 at the very least.
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The last five minutes of Octavarium is the most epic music ever written.
I totally agree, even if Octavarium isn't among my favorite songs as a whole, that last 5 minutes is spine tingling good, and I can't think of a more powerful 5 minutes of music anywhere in any genre.
However, if I were to pick a whole song, I think I would pick The Ministry of Lost Souls. Again, this isn't my favorite DT song, but I do like it quite a bit. There's just so much to it musically and I love the Lyrics and story of the song. It's just beautiful. I've often thought that if DT was to do a part II of another one of their songs this one would be a good choice.
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The answer is no for me. Learning To Live would be up there but not my favourite of all time. That title belongs to (and probably always will) Wanted Dead Or Alive by Bon Jovi. That to me is perfection, perfectly produced, perfectly performed and completely timeless. Yes the lyric are a bit cheesy with the whole cowboy/touring band metaphor but it doesn’t matter. Just has a magical feel for me.
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The answer is no for me. Learning To Live would be up there but not my favourite of all time. That title belongs to (and probably always will) Wanted Dead Or Alive by Bon Jovi. That to me is perfection, perfectly produced, perfectly performed and completely timeless. Yes the lyric are a bit cheesy with the whole cowboy/touring band metaphor but it doesn’t matter. Just has a magical feel for me.
That's a really great song though. Everything about it is perfect.
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I couldn't even begin to say conclusively that a particular song is my all-time favorite, but Metropolis and Learning to Live and maybe a couple other DT songs would definitely be on the short list.
Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.
Objectively?
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I can name you my favourite DT song to date (Outcry), but I never thought about what the greatest song of all time is to me.
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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.
Objectively?
I think what they mean is that they think that it's great from a more objective perspective, as in, judging it based on its composition, production, etc., without any bias on how much they like the song. For me, I think that on a more "objective" level, The Dance of Eternity is absolutely brilliant. However, I don't get that much enjoyment out of it; I think it tends to lose my interest in the last couple minutes. Therefore on a "subjective" level, I personally think it's great but nothing amazing, but on a more "objective" stance, I think it's truly amazing how much effort went into the song, and it's amazing that Dream Theater can play a song so complex. So looking at it from an "objective" stance is still an expression of one's opinion, but how much you personally enjoy the song isn't a factor.
At least, that's how I've always seen it.
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While I would never proclaim any artist or song or movie the greatest of all time I've always thought that Illumination Theory is a brilliant piece of work! :metal :metal
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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.
Objectively?
The answer you already got is great, what I also mean is that it has everything a great song should have. Excellently written lyrics illuminating something at the heart of the human condition, excellent instrumentation, composition that simply goes from great to amazing to perfect, fireworks, it's got just everything and there's not a single thing even mildly changeable about it.
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Learning To Live is objectively one of the greatest songs of all time.
Objectively?
The answer you already got is great, what I also mean is that it has everything a great song should have. Excellently written lyrics illuminating something at the heart of the human condition, excellent instrumentation, composition that simply goes from great to amazing to perfect, fireworks, it's got just everything and there's not a single thing even mildly changeable about it.
My point is that there's nothing objective about any of that. Whether the lyrics are "excellently written" is a matter of subjective opinion. I'm not sure what "excellent instrumentation" means. It's got guitar, bass, keys, drums and vocals. If you're saying the tones are nice, that's also subjective, and things like "[c]omposition that simply goes from amazing to perfect" and "not a single thing even mildly changeable about it" are pretty much the height of subjective statements.
Look...I LOVE the song and share your opinions about it, but there's nothing at all objective about it.
I think what they mean is that they think that it's great from a more objective perspective, as in, judging it based on its composition, production, etc., without any bias on how much they like the song. For me, I think that on a more "objective" level, The Dance of Eternity is absolutely brilliant. However, I don't get that much enjoyment out of it; I think it tends to lose my interest in the last couple minutes. Therefore on a "subjective" level, I personally think it's great but nothing amazing, but on a more "objective" stance, I think it's truly amazing how much effort went into the song, and it's amazing that Dream Theater can play a song so complex. So looking at it from an "objective" stance is still an expression of one's opinion, but how much you personally enjoy the song isn't a factor.
Saying that "objectively" "means . . . that [she thinks] that it's great from a more objective perspective" is circular. In order to judge something objectively, there have to be criteria. If we define "objectively greatest" to mean the song that has the most time signature changes, then TDOE probably wins. That's objective. We can count the time signature changes in every song and compare the numbers. If we define it as the song that has sold the most copies and has had the most airplay, we can count and compare those things. But I'm not at all understanding the distinction that you're trying to draw between objective and subjective.
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I'm also not a fan of the word "objectively" in that context, but I think the intent is to express another perspective that's based more on certain objective qualities than personal preferences or biases. Obviously it's impossible to disregard them perfectly (it's still the same person's opinion, & the objective qualities are up for the person to decide), but I think that's the intent. Perhaps "neutral" would be a more accurate description, but I don't know.
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I'm also not a fan of the word "objectively" in that context, but I think the intent is to express another perspective that's based more on certain objective qualities than personal preferences or biases. Obviously it's impossible to disregard them perfectly (it's still the same person's opinion, & the objective qualities are up for the person to decide), but I think that's the intent. Perhaps "neutral" would be a more accurate description, but I don't know.
Thank you. For some reason, we all talk about objectively good books and movies but music can never be objectively described as good or bad because it's all about tastes or something. Learning To Live is up there along with songs like Under Pressure, The Winner Takes It All, Stairway To Heaven, and so on. Just because it's obscure and has more genre-specific characteristics doesn't make it any less good.
My point is that there's nothing objective about any of that. Whether the lyrics are "excellently written" is a matter of subjective opinion.
I'll just do this one. What's the last classic novel you've read, and why is it well written (because all of them are)? Is it because of the relevant topic that remained fresh over a century or two somehow, the technicalities such as word usage, the emotion it gives you and many other people who read it, is because the author got what he was talking about through to everyone? All of that at once and more? Songs can be "objectively" judged in the same way.
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No.
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Yes.
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I'm also not a fan of the word "objectively" in that context, but I think the intent is to express another perspective that's based more on certain objective qualities than personal preferences or biases. Obviously it's impossible to disregard them perfectly (it's still the same person's opinion, & the objective qualities are up for the person to decide), but I think that's the intent. Perhaps "neutral" would be a more accurate description, but I don't know.
Thank you. For some reason, we all talk about objectively good books and movies but music can never be objectively described as good or bad because it's all about tastes or something. Learning To Live is up there along with songs like Under Pressure, The Winner Takes It All, Stairway To Heaven, and so on. Just because it's obscure and has more genre-specific characteristics doesn't make it any less good.
My point is that there's nothing objective about any of that. Whether the lyrics are "excellently written" is a matter of subjective opinion.
I'll just do this one. What's the last classic novel you've read, and why is it well written (because all of them are)? Is it because of the relevant topic that remained fresh over a century or two somehow, the technicalities such as word usage, the emotion it gives you and many other people who read it, is because the author got what he was talking about through to everyone? All of that at once and more? Songs can be "objectively" judged in the same way.
I agree. There are qualities in all types of art that can be evaluated in a more objective way. And those qualities may or may not equal how much you like that particular piece. An example for myself would be two books by Ernest Hemingway. For Whom the Bell Tolls and To Have and Have Not. Although I enjoyed both books, I liked reading To Have and Have Not more because of the adventure aspect. But, I think most Hemingway fans would agree that For Whom the Bell Tolls is objectively the better book.
However, I also don't really like the term "objectively" because as humans we are inherrantly flawed and biased and true objectivity just doesn't exist imho.
Many people in the literary world put a lot of stock into Harold Bloom's Western Cannon and consider it objective and authortitative. I agree, it's a pretty good list of authors who have had tremendous influence on literature as we know it today. It's an educated opinion but still an opinion.
I'm not sure why I just wrote all that :).
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But music feels... dunno, much personal, and more subject to one's own preference.
I mean, I think that someone feels more entitled in listening to Learning to Live and say "meh, this song totally sucks for me" than claiming that Moby Dick is an horribly written book.
Sure, if you press someone hard enough, they will concede that yes, that classical piece of music is good and that a random jazz improv player has the skills, and so you can get someone to admit that Petrucci is a good guitarist, but if someone listens to Learning to Live and gets bored 3 minutes in, he'll just think that the song is bad and that DT is not for them at all. They'll probably go as far as claiming as not understanding what the fuzz's about (or complain about James).
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Oh hey, never saw this debate on DTF before!
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The Spirit Carries On is the greatest power ballad of all time...
I think.
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I'm not one who ranks by numbers my favorite song, album, etc, but if I were to choose a DT song it would be The Spirit Carries On. Wonderful song and then that guitar solo and I always get chills!
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Oh hey, never saw this debate on DTF before!
:lol I don't usually participate because I don't tend to think of music that way, a lot of Dream Theater music would fail if judged by the standards I just judged LtL by. But it applies to this specific thread so that part of my brain just turned itself on. I'm also a music journalist, and while that's all about tastes and what's current and trying to make people pay attention to what's new and interesting, when you listen to several thousand albums you also start thinking you have the right to point out what's "objectively" well done or better than what other bands are doing.
There are qualities in all types of art that can be evaluated in a more objective way. And those qualities may or may not equal how much you like that particular piece. An example for myself would be two books by Ernest Hemingway. For Whom the Bell Tolls and To Have and Have Not. Although I enjoyed both books, I liked reading To Have and Have Not more because of the adventure aspect. But, I think most Hemingway fans would agree that For Whom the Bell Tolls is objectively the better book.
I have this exact thing with Charlotte Bronte and two of her books, Jane Eyre and Shirley. Jane Eyre is so tight it's crazy, narratively very satisfying, very relevant. Shirley meanders, a very important character enters the book very late, the political backdrop of the story is kind of opaque unless you know more than just a little bit about 19th century England, and so on. But the prose in that book makes me read it again and again and again.
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I'll just do this one. What's the last classic novel you've read, and why is it well written (because all of them are)? Is it because of the relevant topic that remained fresh over a century or two somehow, the technicalities such as word usage, the emotion it gives you and many other people who read it, is because the author got what he was talking about through to everyone? All of that at once and more? Songs can be "objectively" judged in the same way.
Not really following this, but the same comments I made about music are equally applicable to books. Pride and Prejudice, which I consider to be a steaming pile of garbage, is regarded as a great novel simply because the majority of folks in charge of high school literature curriculum share the same subjective opinion.
No.
Yes.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/40/83/d540836f1f1042b2cf7ae36150d1d190.jpg)
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But music feels... dunno, much personal, and more subject to one's own preference.
I mean, I think that someone feels more entitled in listening to Learning to Live and say "meh, this song totally sucks for me" than claiming that Moby Dick is an horribly written book.
Sure, if you press someone hard enough, they will concede that yes, that classical piece of music is good and that a random jazz improv player has the skills, and so you can get someone to admit that Petrucci is a good guitarist, but if someone listens to Learning to Live and gets bored 3 minutes in, he'll just think that the song is bad and that DT is not for them at all. They'll probably go as far as claiming as not understanding what the fuzz's about (or complain about James).
MirrorMask, I think you're exactly right. I was trying to say this, but probably didn't do a very good job. I once saw a girl in an english class I was in in college stand up in the middle of class and practically bare testimony of the greatness of the Twilight series as a great piece of American literature :lol. Although I don't agree with her and nor did anyone else in the class, she liked it a lot and it was her opinion and her taste. And that's probably all that really matters anyway.
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No, but a couple are on my short list.
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Not really following this, but the same comments I made about music are equally applicable to books. Pride and Prejudice, which I consider to be a steaming pile of garbage, is regarded as a great novel simply because the majority of folks in charge of high school literature curriculum share the same subjective opinion.
Okay, one of those people. Carry on, we will never agree, especially about P&P :lol
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Not really following this, but the same comments I made about music are equally applicable to books. Pride and Prejudice, which I consider to be a steaming pile of garbage, is regarded as a great novel simply because the majority of folks in charge of high school literature curriculum share the same subjective opinion.
Okay, one of those people. Carry on, we will never agree, especially about P&P :lol
Let me sum things up by paraphrasing a quote by the English writer Evelyn Beatrice Hall (which quoted is sometimes misattributed to the French writer Francois-Marie Arouet, aka Voltaire): We don't agree, and I don't care if we do or don't agree, but I'll vigorously defend your right to your subjective opinion and your ability to express that opinion.
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Yeah Voltaire isn't cool enough to have come up with that line. And I agree. :angel:
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There's no way I would EVER consider A song from ANY band to be THE greatest of all time. However, I would consider MANY songs from MANY bands to be ONE of the greatest of all time. DT is ONE of those bands and has written at least ONE of those songs. :biggrin:
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Learning To Live is my #1 song of all time.
I can't say if it's my favorite of all time (including from all other bands), although it quite possibly is. But certainly in DT's catalog, it's #1 for me.
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At Wits End
Jordans Piano and that build up make it top 10 Worthy.
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In my opinion, Octavarium is one of the greatest songs ever written. It ranks among some other masterpieces like Supper's Ready or The Gates Of Delirium.
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I would have a ton of Dream Theater songs near the top but not sure anything can beat Suppers Ready, or Bohemian Rhapsody. Learning to live and Fatal Tragedy come close.
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I would have a ton of Dream Theater songs near the top but not sure anything can beat Suppers Ready, or Bohemian Rhapsody. Learning to live and Fatal Tragedy come close.
Yea. I agree with this. I love DT, but they don't have that "best song of all time" in my opinion. Bohemian Rhapsody is the only song I think I could ever consider for that title. Part of that is because it is so unique and incorporates multiple genres of music, plus millions of people don't just like, but love it (based on no statistics, admittedly). I heard in a Behind the Music-type show, an interviewee say that it is a rare instance where a song is also a work of art.
If I had to pick a DT song, though, I'd have to go with "A Change of Seasons". It's not my favorite, but it has the appeal and reach to be considered: strong rock base, good hooks, meaningful lyrics, unique, takes from multiple genres.
-Tof
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Trying to stay short because it's not my speciality :D
Yes, DT created to me the most enjoyable complicated music I ever heard.
From Metropolis to when the water breaks, every song that made me sweat or cry are the best in the world.
As a musician they are my foie gras, my pastry, good sex, better than netflix...I mean the only two feelings I can't explain are my love for my wife and daughter and what DT's music does to me :D