Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[emtee]

Carousel is so Opethy sounding. Not enough to be a rip off but paying homage for sure. Such a brilliant song.

[Revenge319]

Can we just agree that Red Giant is their best song? If anyone agrees with me I’ll buy them a Haken t shirt.

As exciting as the prospect of owning a Haken T-shirt is, I must admit that Red Giant is one of my least favorite songs by Haken.

[Zydar]

Yeah, Red Giant is one of the very few Haken songs that I can't get into.

[Buddyhunter1]

I think I like it more than Initiate and Earthrise, at the very least.

[cramx3]

I think I like Red Giant just because it sounds like nothing else.  Very unique song that has a nice ending, but overall, it's not that great of a song. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I do like Red Giant... but The Architect is heads and shoulders above anything else Haken (or nearly any other band) have ever produced.

[NoseofNicko]

I would like The Architect more if it didn’t completely rip off Opeth’s The Drapery Falls at 10:17. Still a great song though.

[Elite]

I would like The Architect more if it didn’t completely rip off Opeth’s The Drapery Falls at 10:17.

I never noticed that and just tried to figure out what you even mean and thought it's still a bit far-fetched.

That said, lots of music rips off other music, so does it even matter?

[NoseofNicko]

I would like The Architect more if it didn’t completely rip off Opeth’s The Drapery Falls at 10:17.

I never noticed that and just tried to figure out what you even mean and thought it's still a bit far-fetched.

That said, lots of music rips off other music, so does it even matter?

It’s not far-fetched at all, that part in The Architect is very similar to the main riff of The Drapery Falls.

No it doesn’t really matter, I still love the song (The Architect).

[Elite]

What 'Main Riff' in Drapery? The melodic line is similar, but not the same (and also not for more than 7 seconds), everything in the background (as in not the guitar solo (Architect) or long notes (Drapery)) is different.

[ariich]

Yes contest, The Architect is held back by the boring meandering in the middle.

no

I could raise you so many other Haken songs that are more boring and / or meandering than the middle section of The Architect I also don't see how you could consider a simple buildup over the same chord progression "meandering". Boring maybe (even though you're wrong) but certainly not meandering.

What songs? Just curious

Well for "meandering" literally every other epic besides Celestial Elixir, for starters

Do you mean others are more disjointed? In which case I agree, but that's not really what meandering means. Meandering generally has a vague sense of direction, but just kind of wanders off-course in that direction. The term has a pretty slow, rambling connotation to it, so I wouldn't apply it to Haken's more sudden shifts. The middle section of The Architect I just find drags aimlessly for a few minutes until it picks up again, which is why I used the term. The start and end of the song are phenomenal though.


As for the other topics of discussion:

Aquarius is of course great and I love all of Haken's albums, but it's definitely my least favourite of theirs.

And Red Giant is absolutely amazing (as is Earthrise). I wouldn't say it's the absolute best (not even to get a free t-shirt) but it's definitely among my favourites.

[Nachtmerrie]

What’s your favorite 3 song run from any Haken album?

These are the first that I came up with:

Red Giant - The Endless Knot - Bound by Gravity
Atlas Stone - Cockroach King - In Memoriam
Prosthetic - Invasion - Carousel

[ariich]

Only Stars?  I think that song is... not good to say it nicely.

You watch what you're saying, good sir. That's my brother on that song.

[NoseofNicko]

What 'Main Riff' in Drapery? The melodic line is similar, but not the same (and also not for more than 7 seconds), everything in the background (as in not the guitar solo (Architect) or long notes (Drapery)) is different.

The opening riff.

The chord progression is also very similar.

No need to get defensive, like I said I still think it’s a great song.

[cramx3]

Only Stars?  I think that song is... not good to say it nicely.

You watch what you're saying, good sir. That's my brother on that song.

  no offense was intended, certainly not personal.  But what's his role in the song?  I only have the digital version download so no cd booklet to look at notes.  Honestly, if these Diego rumors turn out to be true, that song kind of feels like DT's Space Dye Vest in a way. 

[ariich]

Only Stars?  I think that song is... not good to say it nicely.

You watch what you're saying, good sir. That's my brother on that song.

  no offense was intended, certainly not personal.  But what's his role in the song?  I only have the digital version download so no cd booklet to look at notes.  Honestly, if these Diego rumors turn out to be true, that song kind of feels like DT's Space Dye Vest in a way. 

It's cool, I was joking - tastes are tastes and even as an epilogue it won't be to everyone's. Pete did the full arrangement on that track (having only done electronic percussion stuff on Puzzle Box on Vector, which he also reprised in The Strain) which was really cool.

[Elite]

I'm not getting defensive, I'm just listening to the tracks and pointing out why I don't think it's a valid comparison.

Both songs make use of 9ths in the chords, but the chords in Drapery go down from Cm(add9), Bb(add9) to Abm and back up, whereas Architect goes from Am(add9) to Cm(add9), up a minor third and the repeating that from the Bb up to Db.

So yes, texturally the chords sound similar, because it's the same chord type being used, but in a different harmonic progression for both songs. Rhythmically it's not the same at all (Drapery is clearly in 6/8, The Architect is .. not) and even the melodic line (which I said does sound similar) isn't remotely the same when you start analysing it. For instance, in Drapery it starts on the fifth of the underlying chord (G to Cmadd9) and in the Architect it starts on the ninth of the chord.

[NoseofNicko]

I'm not getting defensive, I'm just listening to the tracks and pointing out why I don't think it's a valid comparison.

Both songs make use of 9ths in the chords, but the chords in Drapery go down from Cm(add9), Bb(add9) to Abm and back up, whereas Architect goes from Am(add9) to Cm(add9), up a minor third and the repeating that from the Bb up to Db.

So yes, texturally the chords sound similar, because it's the same chord type being used, but in a different harmonic progression for both songs. Rhythmically it's not the same at all and even the melodic line (which I said does sound similar) isn't remotely the same when you start analysing it. For instance, in Drapery it starts on the fifth of the underlying chord (G to Cmadd9) and in the Architect it starts on the ninth of the chord.

I never said it was the same. It’s not the same, but I would be really surprised if whoever came up with that part wasn’t influenced by Opeth.

Others felt the same way here: https://www.last.fm/music/Haken/_/The+Architect/+shoutbox?sort=popular

[Elite]

I never said you said it's the same

But to quote yourself, you said it 'completely rips off' The Drapery Falls and I think to say that for a section that's barely 7 seconds with a bunch of provable differences is far-fetched and therefore not a valid comparison

Yes, it does kind-of sound similar, it could be influenced by that particular Opeth thing, but honestly I doubt that and would think it's a coincindence. Analysing it proves it's not that similar at all. That's all.

[NoseofNicko]

Well I’m not the only one who thinks the parts are very similar as seen in the link I posted. Let’s just leave it at that.

[Elite]

Okay

[NoseofNicko]

Really excited to get my copy of Virus this week and listen to it again. Loved every song on first listen except the closer.

[Revenge319]

Honestly, if these Diego rumors turn out to be true, that song kind of feels like DT's Space Dye Vest in a way.

Even disregarding that, I think Only Stars is comparable to Space-Dye Vest in terms of its atmosphere. Although, Only Stars goes for a more unsettling and creepy atmosphere whereas Space-Dye Vest is more of a depressing atmosphere.

[me7]

I must be the only person on this planet that still reps Aquarius. There was just something about that one that seemed special to me and a lot of the unique characteristics did not carry over into the subsequent albums.

No, there's so many people saying that, that it turned into a meme. The band members mention it in interviews every now and then.

I was in the same boat until Affinity came along.

[Skeever]

re: Diego - hasn't mentioned Haken on his twitter in months. Not even to say something upon the new album release.
I'd say that's pretty fishy. They're not huge celebrities, you know they must be aware of the rumors and would say something about them if they could.

[cramx3]

re: Diego - hasn't mentioned Haken on his twitter in months. Not even to say something upon the new album release.
I'd say that's pretty fishy. They're not huge celebrities, you know they must be aware of the rumors and would say something about them if they could.

I noticed his lack of social media activity regarding Haken as well.  Very surprising to not make a post about the new album being released.

[MinistroRaven]

re: Diego - hasn't mentioned Haken on his twitter in months. Not even to say something upon the new album release.
I'd say that's pretty fishy. They're not huge celebrities, you know they must be aware of the rumors and would say something about them if they could.

I noticed his lack of social media activity regarding Haken as well.  Very surprising to not make a post about the new album being released.

Yes, and it's been the same over FB, he hasn't said a word

[cramx3]

When everyone is so quiet like this, it makes me thing something legal is happening.  That's like the only time when both parties won't say anything.   

[gzarruk]

So, Rich, when is your brother going to be officially announced as the new (old) keyboardist for the band?

[cramx3]

So, Rich, when is your brother going to be officially announced as the new (old) keyboardist for the band?

  after learning your brother was involved in the new album today... yes, this ^

[ariich]

You're not the first people to ask me that. Obviously it goes without saying that I'd absolutely love for it to happen, but I don't even know what's going on with Diego right now so I don't want to get my hopes up.

[MinistroRaven]

You're not the first people to ask me that. Obviously it goes without saying that I'd absolutely love for it to happen, but I don't even know what's going on with Diego right now so I don't want to get my hopes up.

LIAR!!!!


 


J/K

[gzarruk]

So, Rich, when is your brother going to be officially announced as the new (old) keyboardist for the band?

  after learning your brother was involved in the new album today... yes, this ^

He also guested on Vector and there's Nova Collective too...

You're not the first people to ask me that. Obviously it goes without saying that I'd absolutely love for it to happen, but I don't even know what's going on with Diego right now so I don't want to get my hopes up.

 

[Elite]

So, Rich, when is your brother going to be officially announced as the new (old) keyboardist for the band?

  after learning your brother was involved in the new album today... yes, this ^

Well, he was the original keyboardist for Haken.

[emtee]

With every spin it gets closer to album of the year. It's that good. An astonishing piece of work.