Re: DT16 Timeline Thread - John finished recording guitar parts

[Zydar]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

[Sycsa]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

These are the most blatant to me:
https://youtu.be/mipc-JxrhRk?si=NQW1kdu1lt3ZHQn1&t=18
https://youtu.be/oasnbzEMV08?si=ErRyPB5LiHNPneby&t=113

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=lrJr3jv3_wVJlPb7&t=26
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=bBlSE2LS5jBvS7P3&t=72

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=z_ppDosYqPPwUZhd&t=128
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=6YE0PYn2h-g3EpQ8&t=226

[Setlist Scotty]

If I'm not mistaken, they've done away with the inspiration corner (where there were certain albums being picked to influence the DT album in the making) after either the 6D sessions or the TOT sessions. Of course, Scotty probably will correct me and I'll gladly take it. If that's still true, it would be unlikely for them to use that approach for DT16, but what would I know.

The first album without inspiration corner was BCaSL. I don't know if they had one during the sessions for the MM-era albums, but I tend to believe they did not. So I would expect that album #16 will also be done without an inspiration corner.

For ADTOE they had IAW

ZING! How could I have forgotten?   
 
 

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

Just follow Thiago's description for the songs he specifically spelled out and you'll see it. The general vibe of each section of each song is pretty noticeable. And although not one he went into detail for, besides UaGM/LNF, I think it's most noticeable in Metropolis/Outcry even though Outcry has a chorus and Metropolis does not.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/10164438464290184/

[nobloodyname]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

These are the most blatant to me:
https://youtu.be/mipc-JxrhRk?si=NQW1kdu1lt3ZHQn1&t=18
https://youtu.be/oasnbzEMV08?si=ErRyPB5LiHNPneby&t=113

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=lrJr3jv3_wVJlPb7&t=26
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=bBlSE2LS5jBvS7P3&t=72

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=z_ppDosYqPPwUZhd&t=128
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=6YE0PYn2h-g3EpQ8&t=226

That really is astonishing.

[The Letter M]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

These are the most blatant to me:
https://youtu.be/mipc-JxrhRk?si=NQW1kdu1lt3ZHQn1&t=18
https://youtu.be/oasnbzEMV08?si=ErRyPB5LiHNPneby&t=113

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=lrJr3jv3_wVJlPb7&t=26
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=bBlSE2LS5jBvS7P3&t=72

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=z_ppDosYqPPwUZhd&t=128
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=6YE0PYn2h-g3EpQ8&t=226

That really is astonishing.

More astonishing than the actual The Astonishing?

-Marc.

[Madman Shepherd]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

Same here. I mean, if you try hard enough you can find some similarities except for this part or that part which basically means even the ones that are similar still have an only partly similar structure. Hardly worth the crap they got for it and if anybody cared enough I'm sure they could go back and find similar structures for any number of DT songs from any album.

[jammindude]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

Same here. I mean, if you try hard enough you can find some similarities except for this part or that part which basically means even the ones that are similar still have an only partly similar structure. Hardly worth the crap they got for it and if anybody cared enough I'm sure they could go back and find similar structures for any number of DT songs from any album.

I was there when this whole thing broke. I remember that the first guy who noticed it and brought out examples and pointed out all the similarities was being treated as if he was accusing the band of something underhanded. I never got that impression from anything he said and he even said as much.

“WOW look at all these similarities!!”

“What are you trying to say?”

“I’m saying I noticed all these similarities and repeating patterns from IAW”

“Are you saying they are just ripping themselves off?”

“No. All I said was that it was there and fairly obvious. Why is everyone getting so upset? Maybe it was an intentional homage for all I know??”

This it became a bit of a crap show. I’m firmly with the crowd that believes that it was definitely modeled after the pattern of IAW as an intentional homage to a new beginning, and there’s nothing artistically wrong with that. To completely deny the overwhelming similarities seems a bit obtuse to me…but what do I know.

[Sycsa]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

Same here. I mean, if you try hard enough you can find some similarities except for this part or that part which basically means even the ones that are similar still have an only partly similar structure. Hardly worth the crap they got for it and if anybody cared enough I'm sure they could go back and find similar structures for any number of DT songs from any album.

I was there when this whole thing broke. I remember that the first guy who noticed it and brought out examples and pointed out all the similarities was being treated as if he was accusing the band of something underhanded. I never got that impression from anything he said and he even said as much.

“WOW look at all these similarities!!”

“What are you trying to say?”

“I’m saying I noticed all these similarities and repeating patterns from IAW”

“Are you saying they are just ripping themselves off?”

“No. All I said was that it was there and fairly obvious. Why is everyone getting so upset? Maybe it was an intentional homage for all I know??”

This it became a bit of a crap show. I’m firmly with the crowd that believes that it was definitely modeled after the pattern of IAW as an intentional homage to a new beginning, and there’s nothing artistically wrong with that. To completely deny the overwhelming similarities seems a bit obtuse to me…but what do I know.

The way I remember it, it was pretty much widely accepted that I&W was at least a big inspiration for ADTOE. Even Mike Portnoy commented on it: https://blabbermouth.net/news/did-dream-theater-rewrite-images-and-words-songs-for-latest-album-mike-portnoy-comments

"Well done, Thiago.... Great post and spot-on! I *immediately* noticed everything you wrote about upon my first listen... and found it all incredibly strange... If they are indeed intentional 'nuggets,' then I guess that's a pretty cool idea... However, if they were desperate attempts of secretly re-writing the past... hmm, maybe not so much... I guess only they [presumably referring to the current members of DREAM THEATER. Ed.] will know the real reason for it..."

Although *khm* hot takes were always present on these forums. I remember getting some unreasonable backlash for arguing that As I Am is heavily inspired by Enter Sandman. Then a few years later DT started incorporating Enter Sandman into As I Am live. Oopsie!

edit: added link - https://youtu.be/aiD1Ni_NInY?si=nzhsZ4rel2a7BD1j&t=378

[pg1067]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

I've never read through the dissertation written by the guy in South America because it never really mattered to me.  However, the structural similarities between BAI and LTL were immediately noticeable to me, and once I started hearing about the connection, they became even more clear.  I broke it down in detail in a post here from a few years ago (which I probably couldn't find if I tried).

[gborland]

Then a few years later DT started incorporating Enter Sandman into As I Am live. Oopsie!

I remember them weaving Enter Sandman into Peruvian Skies, but not As I Am. Interesting!

[Setlist Scotty]

Then a few years later DT started incorporating Enter Sandman into As I Am live. Oopsie!

I remember them weaving Enter Sandman into Peruvian Skies, but not As I Am. Interesting!

Don't forget how they included part of Wherever I May Roam in Peruvian Skies in 2005/2006.

But yeah, they inserted part of Enter Sandman into As I Am for the Images, Words and Beyond tour in 2017:
https://youtu.be/BepIIVrhkJY?t=392

[Max Kuehnau]

Which I've seen them play on the I/W 2.0 tour in 2017 and it was logical (and it sounded great too), but I didn't know about Roam being included (then again I didn't attend the Octa tour, so), I'm sure that made sense too though. And yes, that was my own descriptive name for I/W/B because IMHO the album was in its definitive state then musically speaking (JM having the idea of everyone doubling some of the Met1 instrumental section? Brilliant, thanks JM)

[Setlist Scotty]

Which I've seen them play and it was logical, but I didn't know about Roam being included (then again I didn't attend the Octa tour, so), I'm sure that made sense too though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vk5CVBrRBg

 

[Max Kuehnau]

Yeah, great idea IMHO (including Roam), didn't expect that would come up, but yes, worked really well. (because I listened to it after you just linked it. MP speeding aside , but Lars did this too and he still does, so that's it then Sorry I always notice it, can't do anything about it. Would I let that pass for myself? No, absolutely not, but it's no use going mad over it, because I'm not in control) If I'm not mistaken, they played The Necromancer at this show as well.

[Wim Kruithof]

Don't forget how they included part of Wherever I May Roam in Peruvian Skies in 2005/2006.

But yeah, they inserted part of Enter Sandman into As I Am for the Images, Words and Beyond tour in 2017:
https://youtu.be/BepIIVrhkJY?t=392

Wish I was on your sofa Scotty a couple of evenings... and you'll throw non-stop Dream Theater material on me I wasn't aware of. Whenever I see 'Setlist Scotty' in here, I know something worth reading is about to unfold.

[Mladen]

I cannot find the interview, but maybe someone can back me up on this. Petrucci was asked about it, and he said the songs on A Dramatic turn of events weren't structurally modeled after Images and words. It was purely coincidental. It wouldn't be wrong if they did in fact repeat existing song structures, as bands do that all the time, but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

[Max Kuehnau]

I cannot find the interview, but maybe someone can back me up on this. Petrucci was asked about it, and he said the songs on A Dramatic turn of events weren't structurally modeled after Images and words. It was purely coincidental. It wouldn't be wrong if they did in fact repeat existing song structures, as bands do that all the time, but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuw-25y6GC4 might have been this one here

[Lonk]

I cannot find the interview, but maybe someone can back me up on this. Petrucci was asked about it, and he said the songs on A Dramatic turn of events weren't structurally modeled after Images and words. It was purely coincidental. It wouldn't be wrong if they did in fact repeat existing song structures, as bands do that all the time, but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-guitarist-john-petrucci-responds-to-allegations-band-rewrote-images-and-words-for-a-dramatic-turn-of-events

Petrucci: "I think our fans enjoy analysing our music and looking at things under a microscope and stuff, and it shows the level of passion from the fans for what we do. They look at what we're doing, and they wanna know what's going on. Like I said, with every album people wanna try to find hidden messages and new meanings, secret nuggets and things like that. People have always searched for those types of things in our music. It shows how much our listeners are strongly interested in what we're doing in a very detailed manner."

UG: But obviously, there's no truth to the allegation?

Petrucci: "We really like music. We have a certain thing that we try to accomplish musically, a certain sound that makes us who we are. The core elements of Dream Theater, of who we are and how we make music. Those are elements that are identifiable. That's what gives the band its sound, and keeps the band having an identity."

UG: "I'm aware of that John, but this fan is alleging that Dream Theater simply rewrote Images And Words. Obviously, that isn't the case at all?

Petrucci: "We wouldn't rewrite an album, no. That wouldn't be something that we would do (laughs)."

[Max Kuehnau]

Yeah, this one, sorry.

[pg1067]

I cannot find the interview, but maybe someone can back me up on this. Petrucci was asked about it, and he said the songs on A Dramatic turn of events weren't structurally modeled after Images and words. It was purely coincidental. It wouldn't be wrong if they did in fact repeat existing song structures, as bands do that all the time, but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-guitarist-john-petrucci-responds-to-allegations-band-rewrote-images-and-words-for-a-dramatic-turn-of-events

UG: There was an article published online by a Dream Theater fan which basically alleges that the album has musical and structural similarities to Images And Words. What's your response to that?

Petrucci: "I think our fans enjoy analysing our music and looking at things under a microscope and stuff, and it shows the level of passion from the fans for what we do. They look at what we're doing, and they wanna know what's going on. Like I said, with every album people wanna try to find hidden messages and new meanings, secret nuggets and things like that. People have always searched for those types of things in our music. It shows how much our listeners are strongly interested in what we're doing in a very detailed manner."

UG: But obviously, there's no truth to the allegation?

Petrucci: "We really like music. We have a certain thing that we try to accomplish musically, a certain sound that makes us who we are. The core elements of Dream Theater, of who we are and how we make music. Those are elements that are identifiable. That's what gives the band its sound, and keeps the band having an identity."

UG: "I'm aware of that John, but this fan is alleging that Dream Theater simply rewrote Images And Words. Obviously, that isn't the case at all?

Petrucci: "We wouldn't rewrite an album, no. That wouldn't be something that we would do (laughs)."

I added in the initial question above in red.

The initial question was very open ended, and JP ran with it.  He didn't really address the guy's "allegations" at all.  It was basically a non response.

The second question was a leading question, which I think was probably designed to get a direct answer, but JP dodged it artfully with something that was completely non-responsive.

The third question was a complete botch job by the interviewer.  I don't know if it's accurate that the guy "allege[d] that Dream Theater simply rewrote Images and Words" (that's not consistent with my understanding, but I never read it in full).  JP kind of gave a direct answer, but the question was a poor one, and JP's response that "We wouldn't rewrite an album" makes perfect sense.

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

[Mosh]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

Same here. I mean, if you try hard enough you can find some similarities except for this part or that part which basically means even the ones that are similar still have an only partly similar structure. Hardly worth the crap they got for it and if anybody cared enough I'm sure they could go back and find similar structures for any number of DT songs from any album.

I was there when this whole thing broke. I remember that the first guy who noticed it and brought out examples and pointed out all the similarities was being treated as if he was accusing the band of something underhanded. I never got that impression from anything he said and he even said as much.

“WOW look at all these similarities!!”

“What are you trying to say?”

“I’m saying I noticed all these similarities and repeating patterns from IAW”

“Are you saying they are just ripping themselves off?”

“No. All I said was that it was there and fairly obvious. Why is everyone getting so upset? Maybe it was an intentional homage for all I know??”

This it became a bit of a crap show. I’m firmly with the crowd that believes that it was definitely modeled after the pattern of IAW as an intentional homage to a new beginning, and there’s nothing artistically wrong with that. To completely deny the overwhelming similarities seems a bit obtuse to me…but what do I know.

That was my memory as well. I never read the guy's facebook post but I immediately noticed similarities between Pull Me Under/OTBOA, UAGM/LNF, LTL/BAI, and to a lesser extent Outcry/Metropolis on my first listen of the album. It seemed like a logical way to approach the album (and still does to this day) and I don't like the album any less for it. If anything it is kinda cool and, like MP said back in the day, it makes for some interesting "nuggets." I also don't think it's always so obvious and can understand if folks don't hear it.

But I do remember a lot of people on here getting weirdly defensive about it and acting as if people hearing the similarities were trying to discount the band.

[Kyo]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

These are the most blatant to me:
https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=lrJr3jv3_wVJlPb7&t=26
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=bBlSE2LS5jBvS7P3&t=72

And at the end of both of these songs, they no longer play those instrumental breaks inbetween the vocal lines, instead playing straight through.

I don't get why people get so bothered by this stuff being brought up. It's not an accusation, it's just an acknowledgment of reality. DT's songs tend to have pretty convoluted structures, UAGM being a good example. Repeating them to such an extent in a new song (and yes, mostly with parts that do sound similar in style even if they don't share any actual notes or harmonies) will not just happen by accident. And even if it did happen once by some weird coincidence, it certainly wouldn't also happen with multiple songs on the very same album.

Let me throw in a theory of mine about all this: When DT wrote Stream of Consciousness, they had some fun with it and published a photo of their notes regarding the song structure from the studio. Stuff like "5/4 rise", "Crimson section", "Orion riff" and so on. And they challenged their fans, who hadn't heard a note of the piece yet, to write their own music just based on these notes. The resulting pieces were quite interesting and none of them sounded even remotely like the original song. So my theory is that DT, as a way of going back to the roots, figured it would be fun to do the same with their own songs from I&W - map out the structure in the style of these SoC notes, then write new music that follows the structure but doesn't actually re-use any particular riffs, melodies or harmonies. I imagine the idea was the resulting music would be stylistically close to their classic style due to the structural similarities, but still sounding fresh since the actual music used to fill those structures was entirely new.

As we all know, the songs ended sounding more similar to the originals than was the case with the SoC song contest entries, and so we quickly got guys like Thiago laying out this stuff in detail for everyone to see.

[Stadler]

I cannot find the interview, but maybe someone can back me up on this. Petrucci was asked about it, and he said the songs on A Dramatic turn of events weren't structurally modeled after Images and words. It was purely coincidental. It wouldn't be wrong if they did in fact repeat existing song structures, as bands do that all the time, but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-guitarist-john-petrucci-responds-to-allegations-band-rewrote-images-and-words-for-a-dramatic-turn-of-events

UG: There was an article published online by a Dream Theater fan which basically alleges that the album has musical and structural similarities to Images And Words. What's your response to that?

Petrucci: "I think our fans enjoy analysing our music and looking at things under a microscope and stuff, and it shows the level of passion from the fans for what we do. They look at what we're doing, and they wanna know what's going on. Like I said, with every album people wanna try to find hidden messages and new meanings, secret nuggets and things like that. People have always searched for those types of things in our music. It shows how much our listeners are strongly interested in what we're doing in a very detailed manner."

UG: But obviously, there's no truth to the allegation?

Petrucci: "We really like music. We have a certain thing that we try to accomplish musically, a certain sound that makes us who we are. The core elements of Dream Theater, of who we are and how we make music. Those are elements that are identifiable. That's what gives the band its sound, and keeps the band having an identity."

UG: "I'm aware of that John, but this fan is alleging that Dream Theater simply rewrote Images And Words. Obviously, that isn't the case at all?

Petrucci: "We wouldn't rewrite an album, no. That wouldn't be something that we would do (laughs)."

I added in the initial question above in red.

The initial question was very open ended, and JP ran with it.  He didn't really address the guy's "allegations" at all.  It was basically a non response.

The second question was a leading question, which I think was probably designed to get a direct answer, but JP dodged it artfully with something that was completely non-responsive.

The third question was a complete botch job by the interviewer.  I don't know if it's accurate that the guy "allege[d] that Dream Theater simply rewrote Images and Words" (that's not consistent with my understanding, but I never read it in full).  JP kind of gave a direct answer, but the question was a poor one, and JP's response that "We wouldn't rewrite an album" makes perfect sense.

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

Thank you; I was about to point out the same thing.  Yet again he ACTUALLY says one thing and others say he said something completely different. 

[bosk1]

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

I agree with your points about the interview.  For the record, I basically asked him one-on-one a very similar question to what I quoted from you above, and he unequivocally denied intentionally structuring any of the songs on ADTOE to any songs on I&W, and said (similarly to his response to the first interview question) that any similarities in structure or feel were just a coincidence.  While I think that Thiago (and others) really overreached with a lot of the supposed similarities, some of them REALLY sound/feel valid, so I was really surprised by his answer.

[MirrorMask]

Let me throw in a theory of mine about all this: When DT wrote Stream of Consciousness, they had some fun with it and published a photo of their notes regarding the song structure from the studio. Stuff like "5/4 rise", "Crimson section", "Orion riff" and so on. And they challenged their fans, who hadn't heard a note of the piece yet, to write their own music just based on these notes. The resulting pieces were quite interesting and none of them sounded even remotely like the original song. So my theory is that DT, as a way of going back to the roots, figured it would be fun to do the same with their own songs from I&W - map out the structure in the style of these SoC notes, then write new music that follows the structure but doesn't actually re-use any particular riffs, melodies or harmonies. I imagine the idea was the resulting music would be stylistically close to their classic style due to the structural similarities, but still sounding fresh since the actual music used to fill those structures was entirely new.

As we all know, the songs ended sounding more similar to the originals than was the case with the SoC song contest entries, and so we quickly got guys like Thiago laying out this stuff in detail for everyone to see.

I'm positive that this is the most likely explanation of how it could have gone down. Maybe it was just a creative experiment and they liked the results. It's not that they forced themselves to copy all the 8 songs off Images and Words, otherwise they wouldn't have put a piano intro to Lost Not Forgotten (Under a Glass Moon doesn't have one) nor a chorus in Outcry (Metropolis doesn't have one). They tried for SOME songs to use I&W's structures as a starting point, and it developed from there. But while the song structures similarities are there for half the album, it's kinda silly to accuse them to intentionally rewrite the ENTIRE I&W's album.

[Lonk]

The one obvious similarity to me is OTBOA to PMU, everything else I get where people are coming from, but it is different enough that it's easy to ignore.

[Stadler]

I think for 16, they should structure every song like "Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols".

Or Kiss' "Destroyer".

[Setlist Scotty]

Thanks Paul for spelling out JP's response!
 
 

Let me throw in a theory of mine about all this: When DT wrote Stream of Consciousness, they had some fun with it and published a photo of their notes regarding the song structure from the studio. Stuff like "5/4 rise", "Crimson section", "Orion riff" and so on. And they challenged their fans, who hadn't heard a note of the piece yet, to write their own music just based on these notes. The resulting pieces were quite interesting and none of them sounded even remotely like the original song. So my theory is that DT, as a way of going back to the roots, figured it would be fun to do the same with their own songs from I&W - map out the structure in the style of these SoC notes, then write new music that follows the structure but doesn't actually re-use any particular riffs, melodies or harmonies. I imagine the idea was the resulting music would be stylistically close to their classic style due to the structural similarities, but still sounding fresh since the actual music used to fill those structures was entirely new.

As we all know, the songs ended sounding more similar to the originals than was the case with the SoC song contest entries, and so we quickly got guys like Thiago laying out this stuff in detail for everyone to see.

I'm positive that this is the most likely explanation of how it could have gone down. Maybe it was just a creative experiment and they liked the results. It's not that they forced themselves to copy all the 8 songs off Images and Words, otherwise they wouldn't have put a piano intro to Lost Not Forgotten (Under a Glass Moon doesn't have one) nor a chorus in Outcry (Metropolis doesn't have one). They tried for SOME songs to use I&W's structures as a starting point, and it developed from there. But while the song structures similarities are there for half the album, it's kinda silly to accuse them to intentionally rewrite the ENTIRE I&W's album.

Yeah, I get the impression that might have been the intention too. I know I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to get back to DT's roots with their first post-MP album, and what better way to do so than analyzing their best selling album? So I don't think that they initially planned to take the song structures of all 8 songs and do something similar to the SoC contest, but like MM is saying above, after just experimenting with doing one song and being super happy with the results, they decided to continue on that path when writing more songs.

The thing is, knowing how meticulous the fans are, they had to know that fans would pick up on such similarities, but perhaps it was because of some of Thiago's over enthusiasm and then having MP confirm he noticed the same things (which, BTW he told me and another friend about before a AM show 3 days before Thiago's post, so it wasn't what Thiago said that made him take notice) that caused them to resist admitting that they did this for fear of a negative reaction from the fan base, as if it was somehow "cheating".

[Mosh]

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

I agree with your points about the interview.  For the record, I basically asked him one-on-one a very similar question to what I quoted from you above, and he unequivocally denied intentionally structuring any of the songs on ADTOE to any songs on I&W, and said (similarly to his response to the first interview question) that any similarities in structure or feel were just a coincidence.  While I think that Thiago (and others) really overreached with a lot of the supposed similarities, some of them REALLY sound/feel valid, so I was really surprised by his answer.

I just feel like it would have been goofy for him to confirm something like that. Some things are better left as mysteries.

[bosk1]

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

I agree with your points about the interview.  For the record, I basically asked him one-on-one a very similar question to what I quoted from you above, and he unequivocally denied intentionally structuring any of the songs on ADTOE to any songs on I&W, and said (similarly to his response to the first interview question) that any similarities in structure or feel were just a coincidence.  While I think that Thiago (and others) really overreached with a lot of the supposed similarities, some of them REALLY sound/feel valid, so I was really surprised by his answer.

I just feel like it would have been goofy for him to confirm something like that. Some things are better left as mysteries.

In a public interview, maybe.  But, again, I asked him very directly, in private.  And he knows that if he tells me something in private that I am not supposed to repeat publicly, I won't repeat it publicly. 

[Kyo]

Let me also add an answer from James from back when I interviewed him before the album came out:

So did you have a specific goal what you wanted the album to sound like, ...

Yeah, we definitely knew where we wanted to bring it.

... was there something that you wanted to avoid that has happened in the past?

We just wanted to make a very classic Dream Theater album and to us a classic Dream Theater album would be the progressiveness with the metal, but very balanced and very complementary of one another, not one overtaking the other and not one seeming predominant throughout. So it was kind of a very conscious effort to make sure that we were touching upon some of the really classic moments in our history that really spoke loudly to us, saying „you know, that was cool when we did something like that, or when we had that kind of vibe or that direction musically going. That’s what we need to recreate, but make it sound like it belongs today.“

[weirdo]

Still to this day I can't hear any similarities between those two albums. I need to give it another spin to check for some clues.

These are the most blatant to me:
https://youtu.be/mipc-JxrhRk?si=NQW1kdu1lt3ZHQn1&t=18
https://youtu.be/oasnbzEMV08?si=ErRyPB5LiHNPneby&t=113

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=lrJr3jv3_wVJlPb7&t=26
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=bBlSE2LS5jBvS7P3&t=72

https://youtu.be/WqSXhynkz7g?si=z_ppDosYqPPwUZhd&t=128
https://youtu.be/GlhLcewMORY?si=6YE0PYn2h-g3EpQ8&t=226

Woah.. I have never realised how similiar UaGM and LNF are. Both by strucure and melody in those clips. They have always felt like vastly different song to me.

[Progmaniac1988]

DT really needs an album with a stand out vocal performance abt now.

On all 15 previous studioalbums (one might doubt the debute) the vocalist delivered a brilliant performance.

I don’t think he’s had a bad performance on any of his albums with DT, I do find the last two to be less memorable vocally. Not bad, just probably my personal least fav Labrie performances. Just my personal take. If you thought it was brilliant I’m glad you dig it! Lol

[Setlist Scotty]

Don't forget how they included part of Wherever I May Roam in Peruvian Skies in 2005/2006.

But yeah, they inserted part of Enter Sandman into As I Am for the Images, Words and Beyond tour in 2017:
https://youtu.be/BepIIVrhkJY?t=392

Wish I was on your sofa Scotty a couple of evenings... and you'll throw non-stop Dream Theater material on me I wasn't aware of. Whenever I see 'Setlist Scotty' in here, I know something worth reading is about to unfold.

Thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated. Always like to share what I've learned from over the years. 
 
 

Let me also add an answer from James from back when I interviewed him before the album came out:

So did you have a specific goal what you wanted the album to sound like, ...

Yeah, we definitely knew where we wanted to bring it.

... was there something that you wanted to avoid that has happened in the past?

We just wanted to make a very classic Dream Theater album and to us a classic Dream Theater album would be the progressiveness with the metal, but very balanced and very complementary of one another, not one overtaking the other and not one seeming predominant throughout. So it was kind of a very conscious effort to make sure that we were touching upon some of the really classic moments in our history that really spoke loudly to us, saying „you know, that was cool when we did something like that, or when we had that kind of vibe or that direction musically going. That’s what we need to recreate, but make it sound like it belongs today.“

Thanks for posting that Kyo - I think maybe it's your interview which is the one I was thinking of about getting back to the basics of what DT was all about. Certainly what he says would fit in line with them revisiting IaW to see what made it successful and to build upon that.

[HOF]

Listening to ADTOE now and I can definitely spot the structural similarities with I&W songs. Not sure I would have identified them without someone pointing them out. Lost Not Forgotten feels more explicit than some of the others musically (as opposed to just following the same structure).