Family (half vent, half inquiry)

[bout to crash]

I'm curious about others and how close they are with their families, because I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

Sorry, this is going to be long:

Today is my oldest brother's birthday. He and his wife/kid are my only family in Colorado. They live 7-8 miles from me but we don't hang out too often. I left him a happy birthday voicemail this morning. He texted me back thanking me, and asking if I was around for dinner tonight at this burger joint near him at 5. I said I could come as long as work didn't get crazy (I'm on the clock until 5 but often am home earlier to do paperwork). At 3:55 I was on my way home and he texted saying they were now going at 4:15ish to avoid traffic and wanting to get home before dark because they were leaving their dog outside.

Twenty minutes notice. It would have taken me half an hour to get there in traffic and then I'd be going right home, so I canceled due to the level of stress for what would have been maybe an hour's hangout and the same time driving.

This isn't the first time they've done this sort of thing and it just felt very much like I was an afterthought. I know their life doesn't revolve around my schedule, but it just felt very dick to invite me out and then change the plans at the last minute, knowing I was still on the clock and that I live further away. And honestly, traffic is not an issue for them going there- it's like a mile from their house! I imagine I wouldn't have even been invited if I hadn't called him and said in the voicemail that we should hang out soon, since these were obviously existing plans I hadn't been initially included in.

This just got me thinking about how our relationship is not that strong, and I don't feel like I'm super close with anybody else in my family.
Everybody else is in NJ. I rarely talk to my dad, aside from "business" stuff. I don't talk at all to my middle brother because of a lot of baggage and his mental health issues (many of you know that story). My youngest brother and I get along very well but I never see him or his family because of the distance, and we rarely talk outside of Facebook. My mom and I talk the most but I still feel very distant from her and everybody, both physically and emotionally.

I know there is no "right" way to be a family and I know lots of people have very fucked up relationships with theirs (or are totally estranged), but I often feel selfish and guilty that we don't talk or see each other more. My mom reminds me on a regular basis how much it sucks that I'm not in NJ, which doesn't help.
I don't like being far away from most of them, but I have no desire to live in NJ or to give up what I have here for family. And even the family I'm geographically close to feels much more than eight mIles away. The last time I saw them was New Year's Day. I know it goes both ways- I can reach out to them to make plans, but it seems like when I do this sort of thing happens. And I don't feel 100% welcome there due to past shit (like them saying they didn't fully trust me to babysit my nephew and that sort of thing).
I also don't feel at all comfortable telling them how I feel, because I have never felt like my feelings or opinions mattered much to my family. This goes way back, just being the youngest one and being ignored all the time in that sense. Like "Oh, that's cute, the little girl has an opinion." I know some of this is just my own baggage, but these dynamics seem to have continued long past childhood.

 I guess the bottom line is I don't want to wake up one day feeling regretful about not being closer with my family, or for not trying hard enough to be. But I really don't know where to go from here. Steven Wilson's "Happy Returns" came on my iPod a bit ago and had me in a puddle, because I feel like that could be me down the road. Blegh.

So, does this resonate with anybody?

[Phoenix87x]

Most of my childhood and into my teens I felt like kind of an obligation toward family. Like no matter what, I had to stay loyal. But as I got older that slowly started to fade away. Mainly because I got tired of dealing with bullshit. I just saw the same problems happening over and over again and it got old.

Around like age 22, 23, I said screw it and cut ties with the toxic members of my family and I am sooooo much happier.

As of right now, the members of my family who are polite and respectful, I have a full healthy relationship with. And The ones who are selfish, vindictive and manipulative, I have nothing to do with.

Its sucks it has to be that way, but my life is much happier because of it.

Regardless, I'm sorry to hear that you are going through that.

[King Postwhore]

Hard for me to chime in.  My family has been very close.  My wife's family is could blow them all up and I would very happy.

[bout to crash]

Well, I'm curious about close families too. How would you define very close?

[King Postwhore]

We genuinely want to be around each other.  Now don't get me wrong there are things that piss us off about each other.    (We are going to Vermont tomorrow and he just texted me a time to meet uo.  He's Mr. Last Minute) but I don't let the little things get in the way. 


My mom's favorite thing was when we were all together so we honor her by doing so.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I'm very close with my mom and sister. I'm as close as I can be with my dad considering I work on the only day of the week that he's off (Sunday's). I'm fairly close with my mom's side of the family. When I was younger I was very close with my dad's side as well but as I got older and started to form my own identity, I stopped fitting in with that side completely and more or less only see them on holidays and birthdays. My mom's side is very caring and accepting of people but my dad's side is extremely judgmental, bigoted, and cold (besides my dad who shares some of those traits but is nowhere near as bad). I feel like a black sheep in my own family and it's very difficult for me to deal with at times.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I hear that.

We genuinely want to be around each other.  Now don't get me wrong there are things that piss us off about each other.    (We are going to Vermont tomorrow and he just texted me a time to meet uo.  He's Mr. Last Minute) but I don't let the little things get in the way. 


My mom's favorite thing was when we were all together so we honor her by doing so.

Right, makes sense. Don't get me wrong- I get along with 2/3 of my brothers 90% of the time. I have a lot in common with the one who's here and we always have a good time when we hang out, but it's stuff like this that makes me feel like shit, and the stuff with their son. The kid, who was maybe 5 at the time, was the one who told me that they didn't trust me to babysit, and that really hurt my feelings. In some ways I feel like my sister in law has made it worse. I get along with her, but she's a bit psycho and I don't especially like the way she treats my bro. And I just feel very distant from them. I dunno how else to explain, it just sucks. And I feel shitty that I'm so far away from NJ, but I really don't want to be there.

[Calvin6s]

It's complicated.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm close with my family, but none of them live that close.  So it's perfect - none of them can just "drop by".

But my wife's family is here, almost all of them.  And we are on good terms with most of them.

The strange thing to me about the story is setting up a birthday dinner the day of.  For us, that would have been scheduled out a little further, at least a few days.  Because people have lives and schedules, especially people with kids.

[sneakyblueberry]

My family is pretty close.  Me and my brothers and our wives hang out fairly regularly.  I went through a period, about a year, where I didn't hang out or talk with them very much (like being totally cut off from the group) because of some of my own personal shit  - and it was one of the worst years of my life. 

It does sound like you were an afterthought.  But maybe the fact that you guys don't talk or hang often gave them the impression that you just don't really want to hang out?  Meaning that they thought you wouldn't really care that they changed plans on the fly, because you probably (in their eyes) didn't want to be there?  I dunno.  I can think of certain people that I would do that to myself, knowing that they probably weren't even going to come anyway. 

Maybe telling them that you were really bummed that you didn't get to meet up, or that you don't hang out enough could change things? 

Me and my brothers have never really been the best at talking things through, but when I was going through my shitty year I mentioned, all it really took was for one of my bros to meet up with me over a coffee and say 'hey, it sucks that we haven't seen much of you, and we all miss you - come and hang'.  My situation is obviously a lot different from yours, and the reason we stopped hanging out was because I fucked up and they kinda hated me for a bit, but sometimes just talking through stuff like this is the only way to change things. 

[King Postwhore]

I do agree that if you don't have an open conversation,  your brother may not know he is doing this to you.  Sometimes,  their live removes around dealing with children and have blinders on to others feelings.

Don't take it personally Jackie, just have an open dialog.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I know. I just don't really feel comfortable doing that. He texted me again last night asking me to babysit. Oy.

Hef, I'm pretty sure the dinner was planned in advance, they just didn't tell me til after I called yesterday.

[sylvan]

He texted me again last night asking me to babysit. Oy.

NOW they want you to baby sit  . It's like you weren't in their conscious mind until you contacted him, then it's like Hey Jackie can do us a favor!

[bout to crash]

Right. And the last time I heard from him in a way that wasn't just casual texting was also asking me to babysit. Other than that he will just occasionally send weird shit but rarely reach out to hang out. But I also don't reach out to hang very much, partly because I feel a bit gun shy.

[sylvan]

if you don't have an open conversation,  your brother may not know he is doing this to you. 

This is the best point, although only really inconsiderate people can't see that they only contact their siblings when they need something. Ultimately, he won't know how you feel unless you say something. Nothing crazy or confrontational or overdramatic. Just a simple "this is how I feel and I want to be closer with all of you."

[jammindude]

There are two sides to my story...

My mother is from a VERY large, and VERY close knit family.   You know My Big Fat Greek Wedding?   Well...they are not Greek, but other than that, that is the family my mother came from.   She was the youngest of 11 children, and they all grew up in a tiny house in a small town.    I have at least 30 *first cousins* JUST from that side of the family.   We have family reunions almost every year, and they are always extremely large even when not everyone can make it.   

My dad's side of the family is different.   Dad came from a broken home, and mom didn't.    So I don't know too much about my dad's side of the family.   I found a long lost cousin from his side of the family that I had an instant connection with, and so she has become a sortof "adopted daughter" of sorts.  And then there is one other cousin I am close to from his side.

I am extremely close to both my mom and my sister.  My brother and genuinely love and care about one another, but he is just more private about his personal life than the rest of us...so I wouldn't say we were as close.   My mother and sister and I are all very open about our personal lives with one another. 

My entire immediate family used to get together every month to visit, have dinner, play music and sing.   But after dad died, it didn't happen quite as often.   Now we get together only once every 3-4 months or so.   

My wife has never gotten it.   She comes from an extremely distant and dysfunctional family, and thinks the closeness of my family is very strange. 

[El Barto]

I got midway through a needlessly long summary of my family dynamics before deciding that none of it mattered and deleting it. Everybody's family is different and there really is no right or wrong. Your family dynamics are what they are, and that's just the way it is. You're under no obligation to make it anything different. If one of them screws you around, you're not required to put up with it. If one of them needs a liver, you decide whether or not to cough it up based on how you feel about them and not some since of duty or loyalty (they won't take it anyway). If you like your brother hang out with him. If you don't, don't.

I think that a helluva lot of people have huge problems with their family because they're trying to change the dynamic into some sort of ideal rather than just accepting who and what people are and living their own lives.

[bout to crash]

I think you're right. I don't ever expect it to be ide, we're way too fucking weird ... but I feel like I "should" reach out more and whatnot.

[Stadler]

I think el barto nailed it.  But to answer your initial question, the dynamics can be weird, and if it helps, I TOTALLY understand your situation and conflict.  Ostensibly, my family is close. I talk to my dad (who is 77 and in Florida) every other day or so.  And when I went through some shit, they were were there.   My brother, same thing, but if I really think about it, we aren't that close.  I got remarried, in Florida, and did the same thing to him that your brother did to you.  Kind of last minute, half-assed invite.  And the logic was...  my remarriage wasn't a wedding in the "Four Weddings and a Funeral" sense.  It was a quiet ceremony between me, my wife, and our kids.  I asked my parents out of respect and because they don't really have anything conflicting (they are retired) but once it went beyond that, there were other kids, girlfriends (who I like, don't get me wrong, though they were fighting at that point) etc. and I'll be blunt: I just didn't want to deal with it.    I ultimately made peace with my brother, but it is what it is.  We talk every six months or so, lament how we don't talk more frequently, text each other for about a week or so, and it fades off.

You can't force this stuff.  It just is what it is.  Get at peace with yourself, and all else is sort of noise.  If you live where you live for the right reasons (i.e. not running from stuff, not just scared to move, etc.) then that is all that matters.  I'm not where I want to be (I'd rather be in Philly) but I'm where I should be, if that makes sense, and that doesn't put me in close contact with my immediate family, and for better or worse, or barring some catastrophic event, that's the way it will likely stay for the time being.

[Podaar]

I see my siblings a few times per year and when we get together it's always fun and genuinely loving. We all seem to know that our family dynamic isn't typical but it suits us and were all fine with it. I literally have nieces and nephews who wouldn't be able to pick me out of a line-up. To be fair, if I didn't get Christmas cards from them every year I wouldn't recognize them either.

In essence, what El Barto says.

[El Barto]

I think you're right. I don't ever expect it to be ide, we're way too fucking weird ... but I feel like I "should" reach out more and whatnot.

That "should" is the problem. Reach out more if you want to. Should he reach out, be as receptive as you want to be. Doing either because it seems like you should won't make anybody happier.

And weird is exactly correct. When Kidney Girl was being evaluated the doctor really harped on the fact that she could never have her kidney back. Ever. No lawsuits, no nothing. When she inquired if this really came up all that often, his reply was "Yes. In our experience, most donations happen between family members, and families can be really weird." In the end, pretty much all families are weird in one way or another. They all have their peculiarities. That's why there really is no right or wrong or any sort of norm.

[cramx3]

I think you're right. I don't ever expect it to be ide, we're way too fucking weird ... but I feel like I "should" reach out more and whatnot.

That "should" is the problem. Reach out more if you want to. Should he reach out, be as receptive as you want to be. Doing either because it seems like you should won't make anybody happier.

And weird is exactly correct. When Kidney Girl was being evaluated the doctor really harped on the fact that she could never have her kidney back. Ever. No lawsuits, no nothing. When she inquired if this really came up all that often, his reply was "Yes. In our experience, most donations happen between family members, and families can be really weird." In the end, pretty much all families are weird in one way or another. They all have their peculiarities. That's why there really is no right or wrong or any sort of norm.

This.  All families are different so doing a comparison is fairly meaningless overall.  It seems like deep somewhere inside of you, that you want a better relationship with your brother, well it's there right in front of you to attempt to do.  Maybe reach out and try to make some plans with him and his family.  See what happens.  If things don't happen,you can always have an honest conversation to try and figure it out, but at least you would know that you did the "should" part, you tried and that's all anyone can ask.

[JayOctavarium]

I am very distant from my family. I have my stepmother and sister who live a few miles away from me, and a block from where I currently work. I ever hear from them. I text them and I never get a message back. I call to no answer. I run in to them at the store and they try their best to get away.

I have my older brother, who lives in the Bay Area (5 hour drive from me). He and I talk probably once every other week or so online. I see him once or twice a year. I usually have to instigate the conversation.

I have a younger brother who is kind of a douche bag. Jumps from little job to little job. Too immature to hold one for more than a few months. Drives a like a douche in his little lifted for Ranger. I never hear from him and he lives just a town over from me. Hell, he used to work a block away from where I work, and the only time I saw him is when I happened to see him drive by me and I called him to help jump my dead battery.

My mother is essentially homeless (her choice). I pay her phone bill so she can keep in contact with me and my brothers. I talk to her probably 3 times a week... usually when I am driving home from work. I call her. She doesn't call me unless she locked herself out of her Facebook account or something.

I try so hard to keep in touch with them all because (incoming sob story) I wasn't on speaking terms with my Dad for like a year when I was 17. On my 18th bday, he called me. I ignored it. He texted me. I was a pissed off teenager and ignored him. (He was telling me that the next day he was going to take me out for lunch.) The next morning he was killed in a motorcycle accident.

You never know how much time you have left with anyone, especially family.



I am also taking my own advice and getting back in touch with my Aunt (Dad's sister). She and I were very close until my Dad died. Then I drifted away. She lives a mile from me. I am making a point to drop in once every week or so. She just retired and is lonely... so she loves it.

[bout to crash]

That's crazy about your dad ... and I think about that stuff a lot working in hospice.
I do want to reach out to my brother more but as I said, I feel gun shy... and I also let my pride get in the way sometimes. Like, after our texts the other day (and me telling him I could not babysit the date he asked about) he sent me another one saying to let him know some dates I can babysit. That was a couple of days ago and I've yet to respond because I feel angry that his priority is finding a babysitter and not hanging out with the sister he hasn't seen in two months. So I just sit here stewing about it because I'm afraid to say something. I'm pretty afraid of creating drama based on something that happened a few years ago. Because I know he'll share whatever I say with his wife, and I don't really want her involved. The last time I even suggested she didn't have to be part of a conversation, she got all pissed at me and basically said my brother is entitled to no "secrets" because he is married... i.e. all of his business is hers. And I just don't want to deal with that. I feel like if I tell him how I feel I'll end up hearing from her. And I'm already afraid enough of confrontation in general, but that makes it a lot worse.

[El Barto]

I do want to reach out to my brother more

Why? What's your motivation? Seems like they want to treat you like a screwdriver. Moreover, whenever I hear drama alarms start going off. Shared DNA is not a reason to be exploited or drawn into dramatic bullshit.

[bout to crash]

Totally. Like I said, when we are just hanging out its fine and I enjoy his company, but his wife is... well, how do I say this? I really like her most of the time, when things are low key, but she has started drama before and I quite frankly don't really like the way she treats him. I may have posted about this back in the day and it's a much longer story, but a few years ago he basically was emotionally cheating on her with this other woman and I got dragged into it. And she was kind of nasty to me and very judgemental about the relationship I was in at the time, which was bad but none of her business. She made it about her because of what was going on between the two of them and it was messy.

But my motivation is more than shared DNA. I do love him and my nephew, but I kinda feel like she makes things weird... i.e. I'm  fairly certain she is the one behind the whole "we don't trust her to babysit our kid" thing. The last time I was supposed to babysit I told my bro I had a fun project me and the nephew could do together, and asked if they had super glue in the house. He said no and that he could get some... but then after talking to her got all weird asking me what the project was and said she didn't think I would be "careful enough."
At that point I just told him I couldn't find anybody to trade my on call shift for work so I couldn't do it (but in reality I just stopped trying to find somebody because my feelings were hurt).

[El Barto]

when we are just hanging out its fine and I enjoy his company,

Alrighty, then. Can't argue with that. I'd just try to keep it to "just hanging out" for a while. After your OP it seems like that's going to involve trying to keep things on pretty neutral terms. If everybody plays nice for a while then you can start talking about babysitting and whatnot. I'd just be ready to disengage at the first sign of drama.

Wives can be problematic. My stepfather's 3rd wife was despised by the majority of his friends and family members. She was considered manipulative to the point of being evil. Eventually he disengaged from his best friend of 40 years and his middle son because of her. That went on until his death.

[lucky7]

I feel for your situation, not sure of the age gap between you and your brother as this sometimes has a lot to do with a situation where you are treated like a child rather than an equal family member, I speak from experience.

I come from a family of six children the oldest a brother is 56, then another brother 54 then another brother 53, a sister 48, then me nearly 40 and then another brother 39, not to mention a widowed mother 76.

Over the years my mum has spent all of her energy hating children in law and creating divides between her children. For so long my younger brother and I were treated like children from all our siblings, my younger brother and I are very close, then a sister we are somewhat close to, but this is only because she is recently separated from her husband who was her world, basically she only needed her children and him, now they are split we can finally open up to each other and build on the relationship.
And the oldest three brothers it is almost like acquaintances  each time we meet, sure we know our history, but when we catch up it is how is work, how is so and so, some of this is due to my mother telling everyone what is going on in the other sibling's lives, then it is Birthdays etc.

I have accepted this and at this point, don't want anything more.

I feel for your situation and believe El Barto and others have given you great advice.
The number one thing to do is if you want to change the relationship with your brother you need to speak to him one on one, maybe grab a bite to eat or something, And as hard as it is and emotionally taxing, open up to him.
Ultimately he is married to your sister in law and she may still hold a lot of say in the house, but he can make her understand how you feel and ultimately try to change the dynamic of your relationship, he may think he is helping you out asking you to babysit, but he needs to understand he needs to spend time with you as well, and you need to develop that relationship.

I have had enough of in laws to last a life time, thankfully not first hand, but I have seen the hurt and divide they can cause, a lot of the time this is due to their own insecurities, but ultimately a lot of the time they need to realize what they have done as well, and in my family experience they don't...maybe one day.

Good Luck and I hope it all goes well.

[bout to crash]

Thanks for sharing! I like reading other people's family stories...
You're right, age probably plays a part. He is 11 years older than me (42/almost 31). I'm the "baby" of the family (of four kids) and have always been treated that way, despite the whole having a Masters/career/house thing. Heh... I know those kinds of dynamics die hard but really, a 30 year old "not being careful enough" to use super glue with a six year old? Blow me.

But yeah I know you guys are right. I'm gonna leave the babysitting thing alone for now and maybe hit him up for a beer when I get back from Chicago next week. I'm picking up his fantasy football trophy (long story ) so I will have to see him.

[Stadler]

I want to make a joke about the "trophy" but... I'll not.


Two thoughts:  one, wives can be a bitch, pun intended.  My brother's ex and my ex hated each other, and so we didn't really talk for over a year or so even though we lived 15 minutes away.   I can almost guarantee you that's part of your issue.

Two, maybe the "babysitting" versus "hey, let's just hang!" is HIS pride talking.  I try like hell to be straightforward and honest with people, but I could TOTALLY see myself doing that.  "Hey, I want to hang, maybe I'll kick it off by asking about babysitting; throw out the olive branch seeing how that went down LAST time".   Who knows?   

[cramx3]

  at the trophy, that'll be a fun walk through the airport

Two, maybe the "babysitting" versus "hey, let's just hang!" is HIS pride talking.  I try like hell to be straightforward and honest with people, but I could TOTALLY see myself doing that.  "Hey, I want to hang, maybe I'll kick it off by asking about babysitting; throw out the olive branch seeing how that went down LAST time".   Who knows?   

Good point.  But you'll never know unless you try to make it work.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, true. And yeah, my mom thinks I'm gonna pick up guys with the trophy
I will definitely try to reach out to just him when I get back to drop it off and have a beer or something.

[cramx3]

Yeah, true. And yeah, my mom thinks I'm gonna pick up guys with the trophy
I will definitely try to reach out to just him when I get back to drop it off and have a beer or something.

A good opportunity since you'll have to do the trophy hand off.

[bout to crash]

He texted me again about babysitting dates today. I told him I'd get back to him after Chicago. Don't wanna deal with it.

[kirksnosehair]

I'm curious about others and how close they are with their families, because I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

**SNIPPED**


I guess the bottom line is I don't want to wake up one day feeling regretful about not being closer with my family, or for not trying hard enough to be. But I really don't know where to go from here. Steven Wilson's "Happy Returns" came on my iPod a bit ago and had me in a puddle, because I feel like that could be me down the road. Blegh.

So, does this resonate with anybody?

It does, yes.  Somewhat differently, but still similar in many ways.  I was totally estranged from my family from the time I was 18 until I was in my late 30's.  Why?  Prison.  16 years for armed robbery in support of a massive heroin habit, formed when, as a teenager I sought to escape the horror of my family life (physical abuse that would be considered criminal these days) and found that escape in drugs.  That, of course, is what eventually led to prison and estrangement from the family.


So, in '83 I went up to the Big House as they used to call it and didn't see the streets again for any meaningful amount of time until July of '98 when I finally got out.  It would take me another 5 years until I would reach out to my family for the first time in more than 2 decades.  That was around the end of 2003. 


My mother was very open to reconciliation.  My father, that piece of fucking shit, had left her high and dry with no money, no marketable job skills and practically no belongings (he cleaned out most of the house when he sneakily took off while my mother was out bowling with her friends)....so when I contacted her, after all she had been through with that dickhead and after everything I had put her through with my drinking and drugging and criminality, she was open to the idea of reconciliation but skeptical of my intentions.


My brothers were even more skeptical and they felt protective of my mother.  I had not had a relationship with either of my brothers growing up.  I'm 10 years older than my next youngest brother, so I never had much in common with them, as they are both more than a decade younger than me.


But anyway, over time I was able to gain back their trust and their respect and eventually their love.  And now we have a great relationship. 


Which brings me to this:  BOTH of my brothers, Shawn (41) and Brian (42) -- (I'm 52) annoy the ever-loving shit out of me on a regular basis.  They're fucking late for everything.  Every time.  Neither of them do a fucking thing for my mother. (I moved Mom into an in-law apartment downstairs from me) and they are the most inconsiderate, self-centered little pricks I've ever dealt with.


But they're family.  And isn't that what family is all about?  Unconditional love?  I'd gladly throw myself in front of a moving vehicle to save either of my brothers, their wives or my nieces and/or nephews.  As much as my bothers annoy me sometimes and as inconsiderate and self-centered as they can be, they are still my brothers.  No matter what happens with them or me, nothing will ever change that.  Nor would I want it to.  I love them both very much.  But they still annoy the shit out of me on a daily basis.


That's pretty much the definition of family, isn't it?