Pro Wrestling Thread

[KevShmev]

Royal Rumble season and watching Rumble 92 which I still say is the best Rumble of all time and one of the best matches of all time.  Combined with the A+ commentary of Gorilla and Brain, it's a very pandemonium match.

That Rumble is rock solid proof that announcing in pro wrestling can elevate a match in a big way.  It's also Exhibit A as to why Bobby Heenan is in the conversation for greatest pro wrestling performer (meaning anyone associated with pro wrestling, not necessarily someone primarily known for wrestling) ever.   

[jjrock88]

Agree.  But I can't say if the combo of Gorilla/Jesse or Gorilla/Brain are my personal favorite.  They both work off each other perfectly and will always be 1a or 1b or the other way lol.  Also Vince/Jesse was an awesome combo too, especially on Saturday Nights Main Event.

[Cool Chris]

Combined with the A+ commentary of Gorilla and Brain

WILL YOU STOP!

[Lethean]

But, like Bobby Heenan said 20 years ago, pro wrestling as he once knew it as dead anyway now they have shown us their magic tricks. It was obviously impossible to keep kayfabe alive 24/7 in the internet/social media age, but it's not just not the same.  Even my dad, who has been watching wrestling since he was a kid, never watches anymore.

I watched the rumble last night and decided to browse this thread, and I'm curious about this. I know the internet changed things, but wasn't it known before then anyway?  I didn't have family members who watched wrestling - my parents thought it was stupid and fake.  I remember my dad saying something like "you have one guy stomping on another guy's throat. If it was real he wouldn't be getting up like nothing happened 30 seconds later."  So when I had friends who watched, I was like "it's fake" and they were like "that's not the point" and when I watched with them, it was just fun. Sometimes it was funny, sometimes it was dramatic, etc.  Is it just that before the internet, fans could kind of pretend that they didn't know? 

I've lost interest at times, but it was more because I wasn't interested in whatever stories were being told at that time, or I had other things going on, etc.

[Anguyen92]

I think it's less about the internet that ruined the excitement about wrestling (because for me, things were still interesting in WWE in the mid-late 00s), and more about guys like Meltzer and other wrestling reporters feeling they need to speculate about a storyline before it happens and their voices have grown really rampant in the last decade or so.  It also doesn't help that things aren't as interesting when it comes to developing stories that requires good visual hatred that makes people want to see the resolution.

Regarding the whole, "Why are you watching it if it's fake."  People say it's fake, but you look at what a guy like Mick Foley did in the bulk of his career and you look at someone like Bryan Danielson or Katsuyori Shibata whose had careers shortened because of concessions due to headbutts they delivered, and tell me it's fake.  These wrestlers will live in a lifetime of pain long after their careers are over even if they are safe workers.  They can only do much to protect themselves when taking a bump or doing a dive or whatever.

[Lethean]

I think it's less about the internet that ruined the excitement about wrestling (because for me, things were still interesting in WWE in the mid-late 00s), and more about guys like Meltzer and other wrestling reporters feeling they need to speculate about a storyline before it happens and their voices have grown really rampant in the last decade or so.  It also doesn't help that things aren't as interesting when it comes to developing stories that requires good visual hatred that makes people want to see the resolution.

That makes more sense to me than the internet ruining it.  Sometimes the stories work and sometimes they don't.  I've been watching more lately and have been highly entertained by Bray Wyatt and LA Knight.  I don't know if they each move onto something else now or if it somehow continues, but either way I want to see more of both.  (And Sami Zayn.)

Regarding the whole, "Why are you watching it if it's fake."  People say it's fake, but you look at what a guy like Mick Foley did in the bulk of his career and you look at someone like Bryan Danielson or Katsuyori Shibata whose had careers shortened because of concessions due to headbutts they delivered, and tell me it's fake.  These wrestlers will live in a lifetime of pain long after their careers are over even if they are safe workers.  They can only do much to protect themselves when taking a bump or doing a dive or whatever.

Oh I 100% agree with you.  I had to learn that, but I agree.

[jingle.boy]

I always hated the “it’s fake” commentary.  Fake violence and fake competition maybe, but the entertainment and athleticism is real, ffs. They are real athletes … basketball players wouldn’t play thru a torn quad or crushed larynx ala HHH.

[jjrock88]

I always hated the “it’s fake” commentary.  Fake violence and fake competition maybe, but the entertainment and athleticism is real, ffs. They are real athletes … basketball players wouldn’t play thru a torn quad or crushed larynx ala HHH.

I can't even count how many times I've had people once they hear I like wrestling tell me "You know it's fake right?".........wow thank you so much for this amazing enlightening information lol.  People love wrestling due to the athleticism, entertainment, drama, comedy.  That bloodline ending last night at the rumble was amazing television.

[KevShmev]

I saw the clips from last night on Twitter. 

Nothing like Reigns taking a chair shot on the turn and then sitting there 20 seconds like nothing happened.   

And what was with that stupid high spot where two guys clotheslined each other?  That looked so dumb.  Not like spots weren't a thing in the past, but at least they used to look natural and within the flow of a match. That looked like two circus performers looking at each other like, "okay, you ready?  Ready.  Ready. Go!"  Awful.

And Cody Rhodes is going to main event a Wrestlemania? Good grief. 

[Lethean]

I always hated the “it’s fake” commentary.  Fake violence and fake competition maybe, but the entertainment and athleticism is real, ffs. They are real athletes … basketball players wouldn’t play thru a torn quad or crushed larynx ala HHH.

I can't even count how many times I've had people once they hear I like wrestling tell me "You know it's fake right?".........wow thank you so much for this amazing enlightening information lol.  People love wrestling due to the athleticism, entertainment, drama, comedy.  That bloodline ending last night at the rumble was amazing television.

I'm glad I was able to look past that misconception that I had about it.  I don't think I ever gave it any thought at all - just took my parents word for it and I also really never did like what I'd see in commercials.  When I actually did start watching it was The Rock and Y2J and stuff and it was just so entertaining.  And the athleticism was certainly real.

Totally agree on the bloodline segment from last night btw

[jingle.boy]

It's too bad you missed the Monday Night Wars era.  That, followed by the Attitude Era were the best years of wrestling.  There's no comparison.  The late 80s were pretty good, but nothing like '96-'03/'04.

[Lethean]

I started in 99, so I think I got a good portion of it.  I never watched WCW though.

[jingle.boy]

I started in 99, so I think I got a good portion of it.  I never watched WCW though.

Understandable.  By '99, they were

[Cool Chris]

It's too bad you missed the Monday Night Wars era, Chris.  That, followed by the Attitude Era were the best years of wrestling.  There's no comparison.  The late 80s were pretty good, but nothing like '96-'03/'04.

I know you weren't speaking to me, but you might as well have been. I loved wrestling in the 80s, starting out with the WWF in the mid-80s with Hogan, Piper, Savage, Steamboat, Andre... and JCP on TBS with the 4 Horseman, Dusty Rhodes, Rock n Roll Express, Cornette, etc... I lost interest when I got to high school in th eearly 90s, and it never got back on my radar till 2000. As a kid I thought it was real. I believed The Road Warriors were two bad dudes who were just that much stronger and more fierce than the 'ham n' eggers' they went up against. I was certain The Horseman broke Dusty's arm. When I got back in to it around 2000, I knew it wasn't "real." I was older, and appreciated it differently.

[Lethean]

Over time I caught up on a lot of the 90s stuff; I'm sure it was better getting to watch it in real time but since that didn't happen, it was pretty good as it was.

[TheCountOfNYC]

And Cody Rhodes is going to main event a Wrestlemania? Good grief. 

Cody completely reinvented himself in his time away from WWE and became a legit star.

[ReaperKK]

I always hated the “it’s fake” commentary.  Fake violence and fake competition maybe, but the entertainment and athleticism is real, ffs. They are real athletes … basketball players wouldn’t play thru a torn quad or crushed larynx ala HHH.

Yea same, look at the NBA for example. I'll never forget the time Paul Pierce was carried off the court , was in a wheel chair and then came back like basketball jesus.

[jingle.boy]

I always hated the “it’s fake” commentary.  Fake violence and fake competition maybe, but the entertainment and athleticism is real, ffs. They are real athletes … basketball players wouldn’t play thru a torn quad or crushed larynx ala HHH.

Yea same, look at the NBA for example. I'll never forget the time Paul Pierce was carried off the court , was in a wheel chair and then came back like basketball jesus.

or when LBJ had to be carried off for a cramp during the fucking finals.

[ReaperKK]

I always hated the “it’s fake” commentary.  Fake violence and fake competition maybe, but the entertainment and athleticism is real, ffs. They are real athletes … basketball players wouldn’t play thru a torn quad or crushed larynx ala HHH.

Yea same, look at the NBA for example. I'll never forget the time Paul Pierce was carried off the court , was in a wheel chair and then came back like basketball jesus.

or when LBJ had to be carried off for a cramp during the fucking finals.

Or when LBJ had like an hour long show called "The Decision" about where he was going to go play

[Zook]

I started in 99, so I think I got a good portion of it.  I never watched WCW though.

I started in 98 and I did watch WCW, but I wish I watched WWF instead. Goldberg was my favorite wrestler, but after he lost to Kevin Nash, things were never the same. It was like one thing after another, and then Vince Russo showed up, and like Jingle said, just a train wreck. I wish I could have seen Stone Cold in his prime.

I did flip back and forth between channels on WCW's last episode.

[Lethean]

I started in 99, so I think I got a good portion of it.  I never watched WCW though.

I started in 98 and I did watch WCW, but I wish I watched WWF instead. Goldberg was my favorite wrestler, but after he lost to Kevin Nash, things were never the same. It was like one thing after another, and then Vince Russo showed up, and like Jingle said, just a train wreck. I wish I could have seen Stone Cold in his prime.

I did flip back and forth between channels on WCW's last episode.

I liked Stone Cold, but I was never as into him like some.  Maybe that was a good thing because I was a little less bothered by him becoming a heel for a while.  But he was definitely fun to watch.

[jingle.boy]

I started in 99, so I think I got a good portion of it.  I never watched WCW though.

I started in 98 and I did watch WCW, but I wish I watched WWF instead. Goldberg was my favorite wrestler, but after he lost to Kevin Nash, things were never the same. It was like one thing after another, and then Vince Russo showed up, and like Jingle said, just a train wreck. I wish I could have seen Stone Cold in his prime.

I did flip back and forth between channels on WCW's last episode.

I liked Stone Cold, but I was never as into him like some.  Maybe that was a good thing because I was a little less bothered by him becoming a heel for a while.  But he was definitely fun to watch.

The thing is, he was a heel to begin with.  It was only the Wrestlemania match against The Hitman that started to turn the character into the anti-heel.

[Lethean]

I started in 99, so I think I got a good portion of it.  I never watched WCW though.

I started in 98 and I did watch WCW, but I wish I watched WWF instead. Goldberg was my favorite wrestler, but after he lost to Kevin Nash, things were never the same. It was like one thing after another, and then Vince Russo showed up, and like Jingle said, just a train wreck. I wish I could have seen Stone Cold in his prime.

I did flip back and forth between channels on WCW's last episode.

I liked Stone Cold, but I was never as into him like some.  Maybe that was a good thing because I was a little less bothered by him becoming a heel for a while.  But he was definitely fun to watch.

The thing is, he was a heel to begin with.  It was only the Wrestlemania match against The Hitman that started to turn the character into the anti-heel.

Yeah, but I imagine that was more organic.  That how it seemed watching back anyway.  So I guess it makes sense that if people wanted to cheer him then, that they wouldn't like the heel storyline later.  I didn't totally hate it and thought he was funny sometimes.  But it's probably for the best that it didn't last that long.

[KevShmev]

The Bret/Stone Cold double turn was awesome.  Not only was that one of the best Wrestlemania matches ever, but the double turn just made it that much better.  While very different characters, Austin as a face was pretty similar to Hogan as a face as both had no problem gouging eyes, raking backs, etc., ya know all the dirty stuff considered heel-ish, but because they were over so much as faces and were doing those things to heels, the fans ate it up.

[Lethean]

I never liked Hogan.  And I know he wasn't in his prime when I started watching, but he was pretty much all I did see prior to that and while I know people loved him, he wasn't a good advertisement for me.  Didn't like him when I went back to watch 90s stuff either.

[KevShmev]

I never liked Hogan.  And I know he wasn't in his prime when I started watching, but he was pretty much all I did see prior to that and while I know people loved him, he wasn't a good advertisement for me.  Didn't like him when I went back to watch 90s stuff either.

I am sure those who didn't like him in real time will chime in, but I think you really had to experience his prime in real time to get how big he was.  Remember those pops Daniel Bryan got during the YES movement?  Hogan got those kinds of pops every night for like seven years.  And then he reinvented himself as Hollywood Hogan and was perhaps the biggest heel of the Monday Night Wars era.  Love him or hate him, and I get that many fall into the latter category, his status as perhaps THE biggest pro wrestler ever in nearly undeniable.

[Cool Chris]

Being a casual fan of the WWF in the 80s, Hogan was miles away the biggest wrestling star, at least in my youthful mind at the time. Even his walk-up song was awesome to me. I was a kid in the 80s and didn't watch SNL, but even then knew what it meant to make it on to that show. So with him and Mr T. (whom I loved being a fan of The A-Team) being on SNL was huge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukj47Hd8HB8

"This ovation, in my view, is not about nostalgia. It's about respect for what this man has done for this industry." -JR.

[jingle.boy]

I never liked Hogan.  And I know he wasn't in his prime when I started watching, but he was pretty much all I did see prior to that and while I know people loved him, he wasn't a good advertisement for me.  Didn't like him when I went back to watch 90s stuff either.

I am sure those who didn't like him in real time will chime in, but I think you really had to experience his prime in real time to get how big he was.  Remember those pops Daniel Bryan got during the YES movement?  Hogan got those kinds of pops every night for like seven years.  And then he reinvented himself as Hollywood Hogan and was perhaps the biggest heel of the Monday Night Wars era.  Love him or hate him, and I get that many fall into the latter category, his status as perhaps THE biggest pro wrestler ever in nearly undeniable.

Agreed. He was the first person to cross into the mainstream in a big way. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when SI mattered, and magazines were “the internet”. He was the reason there is Wrestlemania and PPVs.

He is the first face to be on the Wrestling Mt Rushmore … without question.

[Lethean]

I'm not going to (nor would I want to) argue against any of that.   My comments were completely about my own personal preferences.  I had exposure to him long before I started watching - commercials, maybe a movie or tv show, landing on a promo when channel surfing. (Which is more proof of what you guys are saying - so again, definitely not arguing against it).  But I just didn't like him - nothing I saw made me curious, it made me uncurious I guess, and not interested.    Just never my thing.

[Anguyen92]

Hogan, at the very least, had a ripping theme song.  I feel that Real American, as a full version, is a pretty good song, musically and fits the vibes of 80s America which makes sense for a guy like Hogan.

[jingle.boy]

I'm not going to (nor would I want to) argue against any of that.   My comments were completely about my own personal preferences.  I had exposure to him long before I started watching - commercials, maybe a movie or tv show, landing on a promo when channel surfing. (Which is more proof of what you guys are saying - so again, definitely not arguing against it).  But I just didn't like him - nothing I saw made me curious, it made me uncurious I guess, and not interested.    Just never my thing.

Fair points. By 99, his best years were definitely in the rear view mirror. Save for the brief return of the NWO (the core 3 members) and his WM match against The Rock, he was otherwise a ‘washed up’ performer in the 2000s.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, if you saw Hogan wrestle in the 00s, or Flair for that matter, you were not seeing a guy at his best anymore.  The match with Rock was amazing due to the storytelling and because of the Toronto crowd turning Hogan from a heel back into a face.  Funny thing about that is Bruce Pritchard later said that Hogan had to fly to Orlando and back the next day to get his Hulkamania gear for the Monday night RAW the night after WM, as he needed it since he was suddenly a face again. No one anticipated the crowd turning him into a face again, so he didn't bring his good guy Hulkamania gear on the initial trip to Toronto cause he didn't think he'd need it.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, if you saw Hogan wrestle in the 00s, or Flair for that matter, you were not seeing a guy at his best anymore.  The match with Rock was amazing due to the storytelling and because of the Toronto crowd turning Hogan from a heel back into a face.  Funny thing about that is Bruce Pritchard later said that Hogan had to fly to Orlando and back the next day to get his Hulkamania gear for the Monday night RAW the night after WM, as he needed it since he was suddenly a face again. No one anticipated the crowd turning him into a face again, so he didn't bring his good guy Hulkamania gear on the initial trip to Toronto cause he didn't think he'd need it.

'

He couldn't call Jack Klompos to get his gear out of the garage and courier them up? 

[Lethean]

I'm not criticizing him for not being in his prime when I was watching in real time.  I'm not really criticizing anything.  I've seen early 90s matches when I watched older stuff to catch up.  And like I said, I saw him on tv through that time here and there, and just didn't like the persona.  Eat your vitamins and say your prayers, ok.... I feel like even when someone like Stone Cold, since he was mentioned earlier, was totally over the top, it was in a different way and more interesting (for me) to watch.

[jingle.boy]

I'm not criticizing him for not being in his prime when I was watching in real time.  I'm not really criticizing anything.  I've seen early 90s matches when I watched older stuff to catch up.  And like I said, I saw him on tv through that time here and there, and just didn't like the persona.  Eat your vitamins and say your prayers, ok.... I feel like even when someone like Stone Cold, since he was mentioned earlier, was totally over the top, it was in a different way and more interesting (for me) to watch.

I'll say it again ... totally fair.  It's like hockey, I loved the era that I watched in the 80s, and don't have much use for prior legends/icons of the 60s and/or 70s.  I totally get it.  It's a completely different experience to be part of something in the moment, vs re-visiting it years or a decade+ later.

All good ole chap!